From: bill_h Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 18:57:47 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3845E02B.5332@sunsouthwest.com> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> Reply-To: bill_h@sunsouthwest.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.rediris.es!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!remarQ70!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail paramucho wrote: > >David Cutler decided that it was possible to implement the same > >services with much less code, starting from scratch, and went on > >to do just that. In 18 months, he basically wrote and debugged > >the RSX-11M kernel. > >A sad end for a great programmer, a great software architect and > >a great software engineering manager. > I don't think so. Dave was, from what I've heard, very pragmatic. Gee, I must have missed something..... is he deceased? Bill Tucson ###### From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 22:51:28 GMT Organization: www.hammo.com Lines: 47 Message-ID: <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> Reply-To: ian@hammo.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed.tli.de!howland.erols.net!news-out.transit.remarq.com.MISMATCH!remarQ70!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:29:06 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote: >RSX-11D soon grew too large to fit on a 32KB (16KW) machine. >David Cutler decided that it was possible to implement the same >services with much less code, starting from scratch, and went on >to do just that. In 18 months, he basically wrote and debugged >the RSX-11M kernel. The was supposed to stand for "Medium" I believe. >After RSX-11M, Cutler headed up the VAX/VMS software team. >Later, Microsoft hired him to be the chief architect of NT. Cutler first did the PL/1 and C compilers. Then he did the VAX realtime (like MicroPowerPascal for a VAX). He took on a project to rush release the first MicroVax. He did this in around six months. He later took over and more or less completed the Alpha. After each project he had to be convinced to stay. Eventually he moved because Gates offered him the chance to write another operating system. Anyone who has written an O/S (and I've done two or three) will know that that's an offer you don't knock back. >It is my understanding that Cutler designed a very high quality >OS for Microsoft, but in order to make Windows run on top of >the NT kernel, they had to undo most of the carefully designed >protective walls between tasks and users, leaving us with >the well-known disaster hodpodge. > >A sad end for a great programmer, a great software architect and >a great software engineering manager. I don't think so. Dave was, from what I've heard, very pragmatic. Anyway, it was a great opportunity and I'm sure most of you know that Windows/NT, or WNT, is VMS + 1. ###### From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 22:51:37 GMT Organization: www.hammo.com Lines: 47 Message-ID: <3846a66b.2528828@news.remarq.com> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> Reply-To: ian@hammo.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.rediris.es!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!remarQ70!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:29:06 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote: >RSX-11D soon grew too large to fit on a 32KB (16KW) machine. >David Cutler decided that it was possible to implement the same >services with much less code, starting from scratch, and went on >to do just that. In 18 months, he basically wrote and debugged >the RSX-11M kernel. The was supposed to stand for "Medium" I believe. >After RSX-11M, Cutler headed up the VAX/VMS software team. >Later, Microsoft hired him to be the chief architect of NT. Cutler first did the PL/1 and C compilers. Then he did the VAX realtime (like MicroPowerPascal for a VAX). He took on a project to rush release the first MicroVax. He did this in around six months. He later took over and more or less completed the Alpha. After each project he had to be convinced to stay. Eventually he moved because Gates offered him the chance to write another operating system. Anyone who has written an O/S (and I've done two or three) will know that that's an offer you don't knock back. >It is my understanding that Cutler designed a very high quality >OS for Microsoft, but in order to make Windows run on top of >the NT kernel, they had to undo most of the carefully designed >protective walls between tasks and users, leaving us with >the well-known disaster hodpodge. > >A sad end for a great programmer, a great software architect and >a great software engineering manager. I don't think so. Dave was, from what I've heard, very pragmatic. Anyway, it was a great opportunity and I'm sure most of you know that Windows/NT, or WNT, is VMS + 1. ###### From: trapperj@netcom.com (John Mirassou) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: 2 Dec 1999 01:08:42 GMT Organization: NETCOM / MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Message-ID: <824gqq$o7e$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.b7.09.6c Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!trapperj In article <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com>, paramucho wrote: Regarding Cutler... >After each project he had to be convinced to stay. Eventually >he moved because Gates offered him the chance to write another >operating system. Anyone who has written an O/S (and I've done >two or three) will know that that's an offer you don't knock >back. If I remember correctly, it wasn't quite that simple. It is true that DEC had to convince Cutler to stay many times. I believe the last attempt was giving him a new machine (Jupiter?) to work on. DEC subsequently cancelled the project, and Cutler became very, um..., upset with DEC, precipitating his move to uSoft. I believe I've seen documents on the net implying that Cutler may have even desired revenge on DEC. Disclaimer: I have not guarantee that my few remaining brain cells still contain correct information. John ###### From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 07:05:50 GMT Organization: www.hammo.com Lines: 35 Message-ID: <38461a05.32127194@news.remarq.com> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> <3845E02B.5332@sunsouthwest.com> Reply-To: ian@hammo.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.rediris.es!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!remarQ70!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail On Wed, 01 Dec 1999 18:57:47 -0800, bill_h wrote: >paramucho wrote: > >> >David Cutler decided that it was possible to implement the same >> >services with much less code, starting from scratch, and went on >> >to do just that. In 18 months, he basically wrote and debugged >> >the RSX-11M kernel. > >> >A sad end for a great programmer, a great software architect and >> >a great software engineering manager. > >> I don't think so. Dave was, from what I've heard, very pragmatic. > >Gee, I must have missed something..... is he deceased? Draft 2: "I don't think so. In his time at DEC, Dave was, from what I've heard, very pragmatic." [ ] Sign-off please. -- ian |--paramucho------[paramucho@hammo.com]---[www.beathoven.com]------| |----[alt.ato]---[alt.non.sequitur]---[rec.music.beatles]----------| ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Thu, 02 Dec 99 13:18:11 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <82607l$55h$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> X-Trace: VZiItQ9Dnh2pS+ow+RwWeKn1rgudP1MSWJO+LIxJn9w= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Dec 1999 14:37:41 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!216-164-247-232 In article <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com>, ian@hammo.com (paramucho) wrote: >On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:29:06 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote: > >>RSX-11D soon grew too large to fit on a 32KB (16KW) machine. >>David Cutler decided that it was possible to implement the same >>services with much less code, starting from scratch, and went on >>to do just that. In 18 months, he basically wrote and debugged >>the RSX-11M kernel. > >The was supposed to stand for "Medium" I believe. > >>After RSX-11M, Cutler headed up the VAX/VMS software team. >>Later, Microsoft hired him to be the chief architect of NT. > >Cutler first did the PL/1 and C compilers. Then he did the VAX >realtime (like MicroPowerPascal for a VAX). He took on a project >to rush release the first MicroVax. He did this in around six >months. He later took over and more or less completed the Alpha. Hmmm. Funny. I don't remember JMF mentioning Cutler when he (JMF) did the Alpha work. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Thu, 02 Dec 99 13:19:25 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <82609u$55h$3@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> <824gqq$o7e$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> X-Trace: VZiItQ9Dnh0EC9B/5S8Yb/ZGh6hiWlxXa9bYp9xhtvI= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Dec 1999 14:38:54 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!216-164-247-232 In article <824gqq$o7e$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, trapperj@netcom.com (John Mirassou) wrote: >In article <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com>, paramucho wrote: >Regarding Cutler... > >>After each project he had to be convinced to stay. Eventually >>he moved because Gates offered him the chance to write another >>operating system. Anyone who has written an O/S (and I've done >>two or three) will know that that's an offer you don't knock >>back. >If I remember correctly, it wasn't quite that simple. It is true >that DEC had to convince Cutler to stay many times. I believe the >last attempt was giving him a new machine (Jupiter?) to work on. Definitely not Jupiter. Cutler wouldn't work on a 36-bit machine. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Peter Pachla" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:58:40 -0000 Organization: WinterMute Lines: 31 Message-ID: <826cde$bnc$2@gxsn.com> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3846a66b.2528828@news.remarq.com> Reply-To: "Peter Pachla" NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.147.232.6 X-Trace: 944157934 1NNUCNF1GE806C393C gxsn.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@gxsn.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo2!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!gxsn.com!not-for-mail Hi, >....Anyone who has written an O/S (and I've done two or three) >will know that that's an offer you don't knock back. Abso-'f'ing-lutely....I jacked in a career in the games industry when I was offered work writing and maintaining operating systems, and in assembly language too - heaven. Well, it was for the two years before we got taken over and effectively asset stripped. :-( TTFN - Pete. -- Spam deflector in effect, edit reply address - it's obvious! ********** Join "vectrex_dev" today, the new mailing list for Vectrex developers. Go to http://www.egroups.com/list/vectrex_dev/ to join. ********** Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) -- ###### From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:02:27 GMT Organization: www.hammo.com Lines: 40 Message-ID: <384cd02a.4918212@news.remarq.com> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> <82607l$55h$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: ian@hammo.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo2!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail On Thu, 02 Dec 99 13:18:11 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >In article <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com>, > ian@hammo.com (paramucho) wrote: >>On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:29:06 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote: >> >>>RSX-11D soon grew too large to fit on a 32KB (16KW) machine. >>>David Cutler decided that it was possible to implement the same >>>services with much less code, starting from scratch, and went on >>>to do just that. In 18 months, he basically wrote and debugged >>>the RSX-11M kernel. >> >>The was supposed to stand for "Medium" I believe. >> >>>After RSX-11M, Cutler headed up the VAX/VMS software team. >>>Later, Microsoft hired him to be the chief architect of NT. >> >>Cutler first did the PL/1 and C compilers. Then he did the VAX >>realtime (like MicroPowerPascal for a VAX). He took on a project >>to rush release the first MicroVax. He did this in around six >>months. He later took over and more or less completed the Alpha. > >Hmmm. Funny. I don't remember JMF mentioning Cutler when he (JMF) >did the Alpha work. > >/BAH Please elucidate. All my evidence is anecdotal and prone. -- ian |--paramucho------[paramucho@hammo.com]---[www.beathoven.com]------| |----[alt.ato]---[alt.non.sequitur]---[rec.music.beatles]----------| ###### From: trapperj@netcom.com (John Mirassou) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: 3 Dec 1999 02:15:38 GMT Organization: NETCOM / MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <82794a$b6p$1@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> <824gqq$o7e$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <82609u$55h$3@autumn.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.b7.09.71 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!esel!cosy.sbg.ac.at!nntprelay.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!trapperj >>If I remember correctly, it wasn't quite that simple. It is true >>that DEC had to convince Cutler to stay many times. I believe the >>last attempt was giving him a new machine (Jupiter?) to work on. > >Definitely not Jupiter. Cutler wouldn't work on a 36-bit machine. > >/BAH > >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. Duh... Those brain cells really are missing... Jupiter was PDP-10 related, wasn't it? What I'm thinking of was mid-late 80's, and definitely after his work on VMS. I have vague memories of it being in Seattle, and possibly having some association with DECWET. Oh well... John ###### From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: 3 Dec 1999 03:10:26 GMT Organization: Engineering Netwrk Support, ABBNM Lines: 15 Message-ID: <827cb2$ams@web.nmti.com> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <824gqq$o7e$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <82609u$55h$3@autumn.news.rcn.net> <82794a$b6p$1@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: grendel.nmti.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news-proxy.baileynm.com!web.nmti.com!peter In article <82794a$b6p$1@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net>, John Mirassou wrote: > Duh... Those brain cells really are missing... Jupiter was > PDP-10 related, wasn't it? What I'm thinking of was mid-late 80's, > and definitely after his work on VMS. I have vague memories of > it being in Seattle, and possibly having some association with > DECWET. Oh well... PRISM? -- In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva `-_-' Ar rug tú barróg ar do mhactíre inniu? 'U` "And now, little kittens, we're going to run across red-hot motherboards, with our bare feet." -- Buzh. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Fri, 03 Dec 99 10:29:53 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 48 Message-ID: <828aoa$1el$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> <82607l$55h$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> <384cd02a.4918212@news.remarq.com> X-Trace: D6Hrkpf0+uKxS7awlzRZlrez3dna7KdNfyrYyztgqqI= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Dec 1999 11:49:30 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-97-42 In article <384cd02a.4918212@news.remarq.com>, ian@hammo.com (paramucho) wrote: >On Thu, 02 Dec 99 13:18:11 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >>In article <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com>, >> ian@hammo.com (paramucho) wrote: >>>On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:29:06 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote: >>> >>>>RSX-11D soon grew too large to fit on a 32KB (16KW) machine. >>>>David Cutler decided that it was possible to implement the same >>>>services with much less code, starting from scratch, and went on >>>>to do just that. In 18 months, he basically wrote and debugged >>>>the RSX-11M kernel. >>> >>>The was supposed to stand for "Medium" I believe. >>> >>>>After RSX-11M, Cutler headed up the VAX/VMS software team. >>>>Later, Microsoft hired him to be the chief architect of NT. >>> >>>Cutler first did the PL/1 and C compilers. Then he did the VAX >>>realtime (like MicroPowerPascal for a VAX). He took on a project >>>to rush release the first MicroVax. He did this in around six >>>months. He later took over and more or less completed the Alpha. >> >>Hmmm. Funny. I don't remember JMF mentioning Cutler when he (JMF) >>did the Alpha work. >> >>/BAH > >Please elucidate. All my evidence is anecdotal and prone. > > I realize what you wrote was anecdotal since most of it was a surprise to me :-). But I don't remember enough to correct you and I did not like the guy at all so just about anything I would say, other than dimly recalled facts, would be very biased. Oh, yeah. He didn't like me either :-). JMF did something for the Alpha project (I have a plaque that they gave him). I don't remember him mentioning Cutler at all. I'm pretty sure he would have come home venting if Cutler had had a hand in the coding. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Fri, 03 Dec 99 10:31:27 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <828ar7$1el$3@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> <824gqq$o7e$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <82609u$55h$3@autumn.news.rcn.net> <82794a$b6p$1@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net> X-Trace: D6Hrkpf0+uJkH/86ZosNvl7kpgRlllo9LA7C+DakEis= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Dec 1999 11:51:03 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!intermedia!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-97-42 In article <82794a$b6p$1@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net>, trapperj@netcom.com (John Mirassou) wrote: >>>If I remember correctly, it wasn't quite that simple. It is true >>>that DEC had to convince Cutler to stay many times. I believe the >>>last attempt was giving him a new machine (Jupiter?) to work on. >> >>Definitely not Jupiter. Cutler wouldn't work on a 36-bit machine. >> >Duh... Those brain cells really are missing... Jupiter was >PDP-10 related, wasn't it? Right. :-). > What I'm thinking of was mid-late 80's, >and definitely after his work on VMS. I have vague memories of >it being in Seattle, and possibly having some association with >DECWET. Oh well... Yup. I remember the sigh of relief when he moved to Seattle. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Dave Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: 3 Dec 1999 19:43:04 -0600 Organization: Hey Pal - Organize This! Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.novia.net.MISMATCH!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:29:06 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote: > >A sad end for a great programmer, a great software architect and >a great software engineering manager. If leaving a dieing company (DEC) to go to work for the world's largest and most successful software company (MS) in order to write it's flagship business OS (NT) is a sad end, what's your idea of success? Sounds a *great* opportunity to me. You'd have to be nuts to turn down an opportunity like that. Dave ###### From: ian@hammo.com (paramucho) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:37:45 GMT Organization: www.hammo.com Lines: 60 Message-ID: <384c52d4.8534303@news.remarq.com> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> <82607l$55h$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> <384cd02a.4918212@news.remarq.com> <828aoa$1el$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: ian@hammo.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!195.224.165.20.MISMATCH!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail On Fri, 03 Dec 99 10:29:53 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>>>Cutler first did the PL/1 and C compilers. Then he did the VAX >>>>realtime (like MicroPowerPascal for a VAX). He took on a project >>>>to rush release the first MicroVax. He did this in around six >>>>months. He later took over and more or less completed the Alpha. >>> >>>Hmmm. Funny. I don't remember JMF mentioning Cutler when he (JMF) >>>did the Alpha work. >>> >>>/BAH >> >>Please elucidate. All my evidence is anecdotal and prone. >> >> >I realize what you wrote was anecdotal since most of it >was a surprise to me :-). But I don't remember enough >to correct you and I did not like the guy at all so >just about anything I would say, other than dimly >recalled facts, would be very biased. > >Oh, yeah. He didn't like me either :-). > >JMF did something for the Alpha project (I have a plaque that they >gave him). I don't remember him mentioning Cutler at all. >I'm pretty sure he would have come home venting if Cutler had >had a hand in the coding. The PL/1 and C compilers are well documented in a book Cutler and others wrote ("Engineering A Compiler"). I have read articles on the MicroVax I effort. The MicroVax II was being built but the project plan had it missing the required market window. Thus put together a team to rush something out. Cutler went to California and found a new "silicon compiler" to get the chip done faster. I can't remember now where I heard about the Vax/Elan project (I think they had to change the name later because of ownership). The story on the Alpha project was that he said he would leave if he didn't get it, so they closed down other efforts. They had had a couple of shots at the technology. As regards him being difficult to work with, that is utterly clear. He got things done. Apparently with the finesse of a bulldozer. I have to ask a question: what does JMF stand for? -- ian |--paramucho------[paramucho@hammo.com]---[www.beathoven.com]------| |----[alt.ato]---[alt.non.sequitur]---[rec.music.beatles]----------| ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian Chase) Subject: Re: RSX-11D Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 05:46:22 GMT References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> Organization: HappyNet Bungalow Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!oleane!newsfeed.planete.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!world!bdc In article , Dave wrote: >On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:29:06 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote: >>A sad end for a great programmer, a great software architect and >>a great software engineering manager. > >If leaving a dieing company (DEC) to go to work for the world's >largest and most successful software company (MS) in order to write >it's flagship business OS (NT) is a sad end, what's your idea of >success? Well, he was the primary architect of Windows NT. This makes him responsible for a significant lapse in the progress of the human race. It's going to take us decades to recover from Microsoft software. -brian. -- --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----- For these reasons, and hundreds of others, I am forced to conclude that a virtual frog is not as much fun as an actual frog. -- K. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Sat, 04 Dec 99 10:56:04 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 48 Message-ID: <82b0lo$85q$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> <82607l$55h$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> <384cd02a.4918212@news.remarq.com> <828aoa$1el$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> <384c52d4.8534303@news.remarq.com> X-Trace: UTveKSr/xfDM/oX4PuRlr6dD6U2Wrnh2MQScAu8OjEk= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Dec 1999 12:15:52 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!d5 In article <384c52d4.8534303@news.remarq.com>, ian@hammo.com (paramucho) wrote: >On Fri, 03 Dec 99 10:29:53 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >>>>>Cutler first did the PL/1 and C compilers. Then he did the VAX >>>>>realtime (like MicroPowerPascal for a VAX). He took on a project >>>>>to rush release the first MicroVax. He did this in around six >>>>>months. He later took over and more or less completed the Alpha. >>>> >>>>Hmmm. Funny. I don't remember JMF mentioning Cutler when he (JMF) >>>>did the Alpha work. >>>> >>>>/BAH >>> >>>Please elucidate. All my evidence is anecdotal and prone. >>> >>> >>I realize what you wrote was anecdotal since most of it >>was a surprise to me :-). But I don't remember enough >>to correct you and I did not like the guy at all so >>just about anything I would say, other than dimly >>recalled facts, would be very biased. >> >>Oh, yeah. He didn't like me either :-). >> >>JMF did something for the Alpha project (I have a plaque that they >>gave him). I don't remember him mentioning Cutler at all. >>I'm pretty sure he would have come home venting if Cutler had >>had a hand in the coding. >As regards him being difficult to work with, that is utterly clear. He >got things done. Apparently with the finesse of a bulldozer. No, I don't remember him getting things done. People got things done despite him. I could deal with difficult people (the PDP-10 types could get quite difficult). I would not deal with spoiled brats. > >I have to ask a question: what does JMF stand for? > James M. Flemming. He was considered the guru of TOPS10. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 11:23:29 -0700 Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.139.199 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.139.199 X-Trace: 4 Dec 1999 11:23:29 -0700, 207.148.139.199 Lines: 32 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.50.1.43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed.tli.de!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.cadvision.com!news.cadvision.com!207.148.139.199 On 3 Dec 1999 19:43:04 -0600, Dave wrote: >On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:29:06 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote: > >> >>A sad end for a great programmer, a great software architect and >>a great software engineering manager. > >If leaving a dieing company (DEC) to go to work for the world's >largest and most successful software company (MS) in order to write ^^^^^^^^ software-only company MS is a large software company, but tiny compared to the computer companies that also sell hardware. I believe IBM's software staff and revenue may still be larger than MS, but its also a hardware and services company, so they don't get compared. >it's flagship business OS (NT) is a sad end, what's your idea of >success? > >Sounds a *great* opportunity to me. You'd have to be nuts to turn >down an opportunity like that. > >Dave Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian_Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) use address above to reply ###### Message-ID: <3849CA7D.E998136D@cmc.com> From: Lars Poulsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: da,en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: RSX-11D References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 18:14:21 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.71.222.171 X-Complaints-To: abuse@avtel.com X-Trace: newsfeed.avtel.net 944360055 207.71.222.171 (Sat, 04 Dec 1999 18:14:15 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 18:14:15 PST Organization: None X-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 18:14:15 PST (newsfeed.avtel.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.avtel.net!not-for-mail Lars Poulsen wrote: > >A sad end for a great programmer, a great software architect and > >a great software engineering manager. Dave wrote: > If leaving a dieing company (DEC) to go to work for the world's > largest and most successful software company (MS) in order to write > it's flagship business OS (NT) is a sad end, what's your idea of > success? > Sounds a *great* opportunity to me. You'd have to be nuts to turn > down an opportunity like that. Absolutely; it must have seemed like heaven: A great opportunity to go to a company with nearly unlimited resources and crappy software, and get a chance to teach them how to make things right. And then it all came undone: The carefully built kernel was butchered into an unmaintainable mess, riddled with security holes. But after what I heard here, he may have deserved it. It sounds like he was a great soloist, who couldn't quite make the transition to team leader and manager. But 11M was *really* good, tight, fast and robust code. And VMS was also a very good system; I still think fondly of the kernel code (drivers, pseudodrivers, ACPs and daemons) I wrote for it. -- / Lars Poulsen - http://www.cmc.com/lars - lars@cmc.com 125 South Ontare Road, Santa Barbara, CA 93105 - +1-805-569-5277 ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Sun, 05 Dec 99 11:39:14 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 43 Message-ID: <82dniu$e3q$4@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3849CA7D.E998136D@cmc.com> X-Trace: KiQDwsUxUS9ePQhFGa/4Yp3ddiail5ndvtYypLty2BY= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Dec 1999 12:59:10 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!d15 In article <3849CA7D.E998136D@cmc.com>, Lars Poulsen wrote: >Lars Poulsen wrote: >> >A sad end for a great programmer, a great software architect and >> >a great software engineering manager. > >Dave wrote: >> If leaving a dieing company (DEC) to go to work for the world's >> largest and most successful software company (MS) in order to write >> it's flagship business OS (NT) is a sad end, what's your idea of >> success? >> Sounds a *great* opportunity to me. You'd have to be nuts to turn >> down an opportunity like that. > >Absolutely; it must have seemed like heaven: A great opportunity >to go to a company with nearly unlimited resources and crappy >software, and get a chance to teach them how to make things right. > >And then it all came undone: The carefully built kernel was >butchered into an unmaintainable mess, riddled with security >holes. > >But after what I heard here, he may have deserved it. It sounds >like he was a great soloist, who couldn't quite make the transition >to team leader and manager. But 11M was *really* good, tight, fast >and robust code. And VMS was also a very good system; I still >think fondly of the kernel code (drivers, pseudodrivers, ACPs >and daemons) I wrote for it. But I don't remember him coding VMS (he was a manager by that time and there was another jerk in charge of that coding effort). And I don't remember the guys who were coding 11M talking about Cutler doing any code (he was also a manager by then). We usually didn't allow managers to code since it always created a disaster of some sort. It was usually the manager would do the code but not have time to test it or fix the bugs that were found. Of course, those managers also expected the crap to ship. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Message-ID: <384AA84B.B8FDEAE7@bellatlantic.net> From: shsrms/aka/shsrms Reply-To: shsrms@bellatlantic.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD BA45DSL (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D References: <38422C02.24B6C9A5@cyberport.com> <384265B3.2C41D847@trailing-edge.com> <38431a1c_1@news.wizvax.net> <38435F0E.D874527B@cmc.com> <81vnl1$kos$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <5VJ04.2293$As1.205564@typhoon.aracnet.com> <3843811A.7C097F02@cmc.com> <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> <82607l$55h$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> <384cd02a.4918212@news.remarq.com> <828aoa$1el$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> <384c52d4.8534303@news.remarq.com> <82b0lo$85q$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 11 Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 17:55:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 138.88.38.5 X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 944416533 138.88.38.5 (Sun, 05 Dec 1999 12:55:33 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 12:55:33 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!korova.insync.net!europa.netcrusader.net!208.184.7.66!newsfeed.skycache.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!typhoon1.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > James M. Flemming. He was considered the guru of TOPS10. > > /BAH > > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. In my mind he still is. bob ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: Re: RSX-11D Date: Mon, 06 Dec 99 11:05:29 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 25 Message-ID: <82ga00$r06$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <3844C032.B36034A7@cmc.com> <3845a669.2526354@news.remarq.com> <82607l$55h$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> <384cd02a.4918212@news.remarq.com> <828aoa$1el$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> <384c52d4.8534303@news.remarq.com> <82b0lo$85q$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <384AA84B.B8FDEAE7@bellatlantic.net> X-Trace: eLGjEGbeq5LPAsLQfvIzZhwYURpvkST2shP1IfTlgmQ= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Dec 1999 12:25:36 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!d9 In article <384AA84B.B8FDEAE7@bellatlantic.net>, shsrms/aka/shsrms wrote: > > >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> James M. Flemming. He was considered the guru of TOPS10. >> >> /BAH >> >> Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. >In my mind he still is. >bob He was greatly beloved throughout the world. Did you ever get to go to one of the Jim and Tony shows? For the rest of you, Tony (I always called him TW) was considered the father of TOPS10; that was because he was the "oldest". He would have rather liked to be the guru because father implied aged-ness :-). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.