Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> X-Disclaimer: Everything I write is false. Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 01 Nov 1999 12:39:54 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 8 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 1 Nov 1999 13:11:43 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com dpeschel@u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) writes: > I suppose abacuses aren't designed for a particular base, but all the ones > I've seen were designed with base 10 as their intended use, even if they > have extra beads in certain places. A standard abacus with sections of 2 and 5 beads per column works fine for hexadecimal. With the standard 5 and 1 weighting, each column can represent 16 different values, 0 through 15. ###### From: Digital.Magic@cadvision.com (John W Hall) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 01:21:45 GMT Message-ID: <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.130.219 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.130.219 X-Trace: 1 Nov 1999 18:23:32 -0700, 207.148.130.219 Organization: CADVision Development Corporation (http://www.cadvision.com/) Lines: 23 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.50.1.43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!nntp.cadvision.com!news.cadvision.com!207.148.130.219 On 01 Nov 1999 12:39:54 -0800, Eric Smith wrote: >dpeschel@u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) writes: >> I suppose abacuses aren't designed for a particular base, but all the ones >> I've seen were designed with base 10 as their intended use, even if they >> have extra beads in certain places. > >A standard abacus with sections of 2 and 5 beads per column works fine >for hexadecimal. With the standard 5 and 1 weighting, each column can >represent 16 different values, 0 through 15. Yes, I have done a hex value multiply, and got the correct result. But I baulked at trying a divide, my brain was still hurting. I have occasionally considered writing an abacus simulator in Visual Basic Perhaps on a rainy afternoon, which are mercifully rare where I live. And to follow that, an Astrolabe. . I think the 2+5 beads abacus is the Chinese, and 1+4 bead version is Japanese. ###### From: Luis Fernandes Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) Date: 04 Nov 1999 09:22:55 -0500 Organization: Ryerson Polytechnic University Lines: 7 Sender: elf@genesis Message-ID: References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sulfur.ee.ryerson.ca X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 19.34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!torn!news.ryerson.ca!not-for-mail >>>>> "Digital.Magic" == John W Hall writes: Digital.Magic> I have occasionally considered writing an abacus Digital.Magic> simulator in Visual Basic Perhaps on a rainy Digital.Magic> afternoon, which are mercifully rare where I live. There's a Java abacus at: www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/abacus/ ###### From: fungus Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 07:56:59 +0100 Organization: Iddeo - Retevisión Lines: 16 Message-ID: <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.82.229.8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!naxos.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newshub.bart.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!newsfeed.nettuno.it!server-b.cs.interbusiness.it!news-1.retevision.es!news.iddeo.es!not-for-mail John W Hall wrote: > > Yes, I have done a hex value multiply, and got the correct result. > But I baulked at trying a divide, my brain was still hurting. > I'm holding out for a hexadecimal CURTA... -- <\___/> / O O \ \_____/ FTB. ###### From: Marvin E. Kurtti Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) Message-ID: References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> Organization: mk Computers X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.20.1575 Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.14.126 X-Trace: typ11.nn.bcandid.com 941896711 216.180.14.126 (Sat, 06 Nov 1999 08:58:31 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 08:58:31 EST Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:58:35 -0600 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!gw12.nn.bcandid.com!gate.bCandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!typ11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail In article <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com>, spam@egg.chips.and.spam.com says... > > > John W Hall wrote: > > > > Yes, I have done a hex value multiply, and got the correct result. > > But I baulked at trying a divide, my brain was still hurting. > > > > I'm holding out for a hexadecimal CURTA... > > > How about an octal Frieden? Marv ###### From: Digital.Magic@cadvision.com (John W Hall) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 14:23:57 GMT Message-ID: <382438ac.39993858@news.cadvision.com> References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.142.39 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.142.39 X-Trace: 6 Nov 1999 07:24:12 -0700, 207.148.142.39 Organization: CADVision Development Corporation (http://www.cadvision.com/) Lines: 11 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.50.1.43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!feed2.nntp.acc.ca!feed.nntp.acc.ca!nntp.cadvision.com!news.cadvision.com!207.148.142.39 On Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:58:35 -0600, Marvin E. Kurtti wrote: >How about an octal Frieden? > Has the binary Hand (the model with 5 digits) been covered yet? Once you learn to curl your fingers independently (pianists and guitarists have a head start), you can count to 0 - 31 on one hand. ###### From: prs@gol.com (Jacqui or (maybe) Pete) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) Message-ID: <38250c64.19157226@nnrp.gol.com> References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> <382438ac.39993858@news.cadvision.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 10 Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 05:21:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.216.43.186 X-Complaints-To: abuse@gol.com X-Trace: nnrp.gol.com 941952110 203.216.43.186 (Sun, 07 Nov 1999 14:21:50 JST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 14:21:50 JST Organization: Global Online Japan Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!xfer.kren.ne.kr!nntp.kreonet.re.kr!newsfeed.gol.com!203.216.70.8.MISMATCH!nnrp.gol.com.POSTED!not-for-mail On Sat, 06 Nov 1999 14:23:57 GMT, Digital.Magic@cadvision.com (John W Hall) wrote: >Has the binary Hand (the model with 5 digits) been covered yet? > >Once you learn to curl your fingers independently (pianists and >guitarists have a head start), you can count to 0 - 31 on one hand. > I'm pretty quick up to 1023, but I can't get my toes to cooperate in taking it up to a meg. ###### From: neil@platypus.NOSPAM.force9.co.uk (Neil Sluman) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) Message-ID: References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> <382438ac.39993858@news.cadvision.com> Organization: Chunderware X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Lines: 13 Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 09:13:53 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.56.102.162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plus.net.uk X-Trace: wards 941966377 212.56.102.162 (Sun, 07 Nov 1999 09:19:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 09:19:37 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!landlord!wards.POSTED!not-for-mail In article <382438ac.39993858@news.cadvision.com>, Digital.Magic@cadvision.com says... > On Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:58:35 -0600, Marvin E. Kurtti > wrote: > >How about an octal Frieden? > > > > Has the binary Hand (the model with 5 digits) been covered yet? > > Once you learn to curl your fingers independently (pianists and > guitarists have a head start), you can count to 0 - 31 on one hand. > I seem to have trouble with 10. Keeps coming up as 8. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> From: werme@nospam.mediaone.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #119 Lines: 13 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 23:09:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.109.1 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net 941929748 24.128.109.1 (Sat, 06 Nov 1999 18:09:08 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 18:09:08 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.idt.net!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.44.7!wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail fungus writes: >I'm holding out for a hexadecimal CURTA... I've thought a hex abacus would be useful, never thought of a hex Curta. Let me know if you see one for sale (okay, I'll settle for decimal). :-) -Ric Werme -- Ric Werme | http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme werme@nospam.mediaone.net | http://www.cyberportal.net/werme ^^^^^^^ delete ###### From: "Harvey Emjay" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexodecimal abacus Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 09:32:29 -0000 Message-ID: <941967601.27721.0.nnrp-03.9e98250c@news.demon.co.uk> References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> <382438ac.39993858@news.cadvision.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cemetery.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: cemetery.demon.co.uk:158.152.37.12 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 941967601 nnrp-03:27721 NO-IDENT cemetery.demon.co.uk:158.152.37.12 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!cemetery.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Neil Sluman wrote in message ... >In article <382438ac.39993858@news.cadvision.com>, >Digital.Magic@cadvision.com says... >> On Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:58:35 -0600, Marvin E. Kurtti >> wrote: >> >How about an octal Frieden? >> Has the binary Hand (the model with 5 digits) been covered yet? >> Once you learn to curl your fingers independently (pianists and >> guitarists have a head start), you can count to 0 - 31 on one hand. >I seem to have trouble with 10. Keeps coming up as 8. In the first ten years of my career, I did a lot of machine code (hand dissassembly of DEC's products) and also assembler. I was doing octal mental arithmetic on a daily basis. It played havoc with my monthly bank account reconciliation!! ###### From: dhansen@btree.com (Dave Hansen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) Organization: B-Tree Systems, Inc. Message-ID: <3826f083.425118518@192.168.2.34> References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> <382438ac.39993858@news.cadvision.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 20 Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 15:47:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.32.152.113 X-Trace: newsfeed.slurp.net 942075790 209.32.152.113 (Mon, 08 Nov 1999 09:43:10 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 09:43:10 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.slurp.net!not-for-mail On Sat, 06 Nov 1999 14:23:57 GMT, Digital.Magic@cadvision.com (John W Hall) wrote: [...] >Has the binary Hand (the model with 5 digits) been covered yet? > >Once you learn to curl your fingers independently (pianists and >guitarists have a head start), you can count to 0 - 31 on one hand. > > You probably want to be careful about where and when you use the number 4... Regards, -=Dave Just my (10-010) cents I can barely speak for myself, so I certainly can't speak for B-Tree. Change is inevitable. Progress is not. ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 07:45:28 GMT Organization: Okanagan Internet Junction Lines: 26 Message-ID: <3827b6c3.46371045@news.shuswap.net> References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> <382438ac.39993858@news.cadvision.com> <3826f083.425118518@192.168.2.34> Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm3-19.shuswap.net X-Trace: news.junction.net 942133464 14250 206.87.124.101 (9 Nov 1999 07:44:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@junction.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Nov 1999 07:44:24 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.pop.de!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.bctel.net!news.junction.net!not-for-mail dhansen@btree.com (Dave Hansen) wrote: >On Sat, 06 Nov 1999 14:23:57 GMT, Digital.Magic@cadvision.com (John W >Hall) wrote: > >[...] >>Has the binary Hand (the model with 5 digits) been covered yet? >> >>Once you learn to curl your fingers independently (pianists and >>guitarists have a head start), you can count to 0 - 31 on one hand. >> >> > >You probably want to be careful about where and when you use the >number 4... 4 was fine for me. My problem was with 27. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexodecimal abacus References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> <382438ac.39993858@news.cadvision.com> <941967601.27721.0.nnrp-03.9e98250c@news.demon.co.uk> From: werme@nospam.mediaone.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #119 Lines: 29 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 01:09:42 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.109.1 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net 942023382 24.128.109.1 (Sun, 07 Nov 1999 20:09:42 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 20:09:42 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-feed.fnsi.net!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.44.7!wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail "Harvey Emjay" writes: >Neil Sluman wrote in message ... >>I seem to have trouble with 10. Keeps coming up as 8. I had trouble with 4, teachers thought I was making an obscene gesture. :-) One "handy" thing about counting in binary on your fingers is that you can be thinking Monday, Tuesday, ... and your fingers can keep track of the day of the month. Sort of parallel processing. >In the first ten years of my career, I did a lot of machine code >(hand dissassembly of DEC's products) and also assembler. >I was doing octal mental arithmetic on a daily basis. >It played havoc with my monthly bank account reconciliation!! I did all that on a Univac 1108, PDP-10, and Z80 CP/M systems. I got in trouble whenever I deposited multiple checks. Twice the bank spent $0.08 to tell me I made a $0.02 cent math error adding checks together. I finally quit adding checks on the deposit slip until caclulators got cheap. -- Ric Werme | http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme werme@nospam.mediaone.net | http://www.cyberportal.net/werme ^^^^^^^ delete ###### From: prs@gol.com (Jacqui or (maybe) Pete) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: hexadecimal abacus (was Re: Relation about a mathematical bug/errata) Message-ID: <382f07bc.4977041@nnrp.gol.com> References: <7v75gl$asn$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> <7vilt0$k1q$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <7viteh$1gle$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <381e3b85.126600846@news.cadvision.com> <381FDCBB.F8B64F9A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> <382438ac.39993858@news.cadvision.com> <3826f083.425118518@192.168.2.34> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 7 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 00:53:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.216.43.44 X-Complaints-To: abuse@gol.com X-Trace: nnrp.gol.com 942540787 203.216.43.44 (Sun, 14 Nov 1999 09:53:07 JST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 09:53:07 JST Organization: Global Online Japan Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.pop.de!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!nntp.kreonet.re.kr!newsfeed.gol.com!203.216.70.8.MISMATCH!nnrp.gol.com.POSTED!not-for-mail On Mon, 08 Nov 1999 15:47:54 GMT, dhansen@btree.com (Dave Hansen) wrote: >You probably want to be careful about where and when you use the >number 4... > Also 384, if you're anticipating an international market.