From: Tim Shoppa Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 11:15:18 -0400 Organization: Trailing Edge Technology Lines: 129 Message-ID: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: timaxp.trailing-edge.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ffx2nh5.news.uu.net 941472975 1702 63.73.218.130 (1 Nov 1999 16:16:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@ffx2nh5.news.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Nov 1999 16:16:15 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.0 DEC 3000 Model 300L) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed1.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!ffx2nh5!not-for-mail While reading some decades-old tapes for a collection of mine (side-note: see http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/freeware.html for details on the PDP-nn freeware archives that I'm distributing) I ran across a twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT, which contains several entries that I haven't seen in years. Reference points: I'm comparing a copy of JARGON.TXT found in the [374,1] directory of the Fall 1981 RSX-11 DECUS SIGtape, available over the web at http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/jargon.txt with the "current" copy of jargon.txt on the net (at say, http://www.jargon.net/ ) and Eric S. Raymond's _The New Hacker's Dictionary_. My discussion here will be limited to entries in the twenty-year-old JARGON.TXT that have disappeared and are neither in the "current" V4.00 jargon.txt or _TNHD_. I will very carefully avoid any discussion of _TNHD_ vs. the "current" jargon.txt. Many of the entries which have disappeared are rather lesser-known PDP-10 or ITS-isms. For example, the 1981 JARGON.TXT includes a reference to BIN [short for BINARY; used as a second file name on ITS] 1. n. BINARY. 2. BIN FILE: A file containing the BIN for a program. Usage: used at MIT, which runs on ITS. The equivalent term at Stanford is DMP (pronounced "dump") FILE. Other names used include SAV ("save") FILE (DEC and Tenex), SHR ("share") and LOW FILES (DEC), and EXE ("ex'ee") FILE (DEC and Twenex). Also in this category are the input files to the various flavors of linking loaders (LOADER, LINK-10, STINK), called REL FILES. Additionally, there are definitions for JSYS (jay'sis), pl. JSI (jay'sigh) [Jump to SYStem] See UUO. UUO (you-you-oh) [short for "Un-Used Operation"] n. A DEC-10 system monitor call. The term "Un-Used Operation" comes from the fact that, on DEC-10 systems, monitor calls are implemented as invalid or illegal machine instructions, which cause traps to the monitor (see TRAP). The SAIL manual describing the available UUO's has a cover picture showing an unidentified underwater object. See YOYO. [Note: DEC sales people have since decided that "Un-Used Operation" sounds bad, so UUO now stands for "Unimplemented User Operation".] Tenex and Twenex systems use the JSYS machine instruction (q.v.), which is halfway between a legal machine instruction and a UUO, since KA-10 Tenices implement it as a hardware instruction which can be used as an ordinary subroutine call (sort of a "pure JSR"). Other entries that have disappeared are "old hardware specific" and probably don't mean much today, especially as the word has been used to denote other specific products since then. For example: DIABLO (dee-ah'blow) [from the Diablo printer] 1. n. Any letter- quality printing device. 2. v. To produce letter-quality output from such a device. Other terms that have disappeared are intimately related to ARPANET and the origins of the Internet, especially on its PDP-10-based hosts: IMPCOM See TELNET. SUPDUP v. To communicate with another ARPAnet host using the SUPDUP program, which is a SUPer-DUPer TELNET talking a special display protocol used mostly in talking to ITS sites. Sometimes abbreviated to SD. Other terms that have disappeared are related to the lost art of macro assembly programming: IRP (erp) [from the MIDAS pseudo-op which generates a block of code repeatedly, substituting in various places the car and/or cdr of the list(s) supplied at the IRP] v. To perform a series of tasks repeatedly with a minor substitution each time through. "I guess I'll IRP over these homework papers so I can give them some random grade for this semester." And some personal details, important to the original maintainers but perhaps not so relevant to the hacker community at large, have been trimmed down in the "modern" versions: QUUX [invented by Steele. Mythically, from the Latin semi-deponent verb QUUXO, QUUXARE, QUUXANDUM IRI; noun form variously QUUX (plural QUUCES, Anglicized to QUUXES) and QUUXU (genitive plural is QUUXUUM, four U's in seven letters).] 1. Originally, a meta-word like FOO and FOOBAR. Invented by Steele for precisely this purpose. 2. interj. See FOO; however, denotes very little disgust, and is uttered mostly for the sake of the sound of it. 3. n. Refers to one of three people who went to Boston Latin School and eventually to MIT: THE GREAT QUUX: Guy L. Steele Jr. THE LESSER QUUX: David J. Littleboy THE MEDIOCRE QUUX: Alan P. Swide (This taxonomy is said to be similarly applied to three Frankston brothers at MIT.) QUUX, without qualification, usually refers to The Great Quux, who is somewhat infamous for light verse and for the "Crunchly" cartoons. 4. QUUXY: adj. Of or pertaining to a QUUX. 5. n. The Micro Quux (Sam Lewis). Some of the terms that have been removed from recent versions have found their way into "mainstream" slang, and passed out of use even there: SPAZZ 1. v. To behave spastically or erratically; more often, to commit a single gross error. "Boy, is he spazzing!" 2. n. One who spazzes. "Boy, what a spazz!" 3. n. The result of spazzing. "Boy, what a spazz!" Some entries have obviously been modified to the past tense, though they were obviously present tense in the 1981 version: TECO (tee'koe) [acronym for Text Editor and COrrector] 1. n. A text editor developed at MIT, and modified by just about everybody. If all the dialects are included, TECO might well be the single most prolific editor in use. Overall, very few entries seem to have disappeared from this almost- twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT. And, of course, the modern versions are *much* more voluminous. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: 01 Nov 1999 23:57:24 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 71 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uaeox7rcb.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Tim Shoppa writes: > > I ran across a twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT, which > contains several entries that I haven't seen in years. Could you diff it (or send me a copy to diff) vs the one I have at: http://neil.franklin.ch/Jargon_File/jarg1.txt It it differs and is older I would like a copy. For "hysterical raisins" (it is in Jargon, what that means). > Many of the entries which have disappeared are rather lesser-known > PDP-10 or ITS-isms. For example, the 1981 JARGON.TXT includes a > reference to > > Other entries that have disappeared are "old hardware specific" and > probably don't mean much today, especially as the word has been > used to denote other specific products since then. For example: > > Other terms that have disappeared are intimately related to > ARPANET and the origins of the Internet, especially on its PDP-10-based > hosts: > > Other terms that have disappeared are related to the lost art of > macro assembly programming: > > And some personal details, important to the original maintainers > but perhaps not so relevant to the hacker community at large, have > been trimmed down in the "modern" versions: > > Some of the terms that have been removed from recent versions have > found their way into "mainstream" slang, and passed out of use even > there: > > Some entries have obviously been modified to the past tense, though > they were obviously present tense in the 1981 version: > > Overall, very few entries seem to have disappeared from this almost- > twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT. Many a "good" reason. All lose information, which may one day be usefull (see the manifesto thread). Just look at this example: UUO (you-you-oh) [short for "Un-Used Operation"] n. A DEC-10 system And in: From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Message-ID: <7vjtvh$a3u$5@autumn.news.rcn.net> TOPS10 had a LIGHTS UUO. Without you mentioning that lost entry I would have not understood that post of BAH. Thankfully the old Jargon helped, the new "improved" one would have failled. > And, of course, the modern > versions are *much* more voluminous. So voluminous, they have to save 0.1% space by ditching a few entries. Disk space is so utterly expensive these days... :-) -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: "Henry Churchyard" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: 1 Nov 1999 16:07:35 -0600 Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas Lines: 48 Message-ID: <7vl2v7$c2j@curly.cc.utexas.edu> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: curly.cc.utexas.edu X-Trace: geraldo.cc.utexas.edu 941494056 13098 128.83.42.1 (1 Nov 1999 22:07:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cc.utexas.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Nov 1999 22:07:36 GMT X-Face: #O!B,S1Ez(T##W$f`}BIPR<(7B_Kb*R^`A]0!UTex^Vz&bKso8|LZKD1ZGGKl%(K%.H`& zY:olOCo^cwkY-twSfiB%Tj9ZH_|z|P*AMq=9s{B8R}:rzJLZRIYC@Q@b>UH\L.NNy*Q X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test69 (20 September 1998) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.netcrusader.net!128.223.220.30!logbridge.uoregon.edu!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!curly.cc.utexas.edu!not-for-mail In article <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa wrote: ] While reading some decades-old tapes for a collection of mine I ran ] across a twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT, which contains ] several entries that I haven't seen in years. My discussion here ] will be limited to entries in the twenty-year-old JARGON.TXT that ] have disappeared and are neither in the "current" V4.00 jargon.txt ] or Eric S. Raymond's _The New Hacker's Dictionary_. ] Many of the entries which have disappeared are rather lesser-known ] PDP-10 or ITS-isms. For example, the 1981 JARGON.TXT includes a ] reference to ] BIN [short for BINARY; used as a second file name on ITS]> ] JSYS (jay'sis), pl. JSI (jay'sigh) [Jump to SYStem] See UUO. ] UUO (you-you-oh) [short for "Un-Used Operation"] ] Other entries that have disappeared are "old hardware specific" ] DIABLO (dee-ah'blow) [from the Diablo printer] ] Other terms that have disappeared are intimately related to ARPANET ] and the origins of the Internet, especially on its PDP-10-based ] hosts: ] IMPCOM See TELNET. ] SUPDUP v. To communicate with another ARPAnet host using the SUPDUP ] Other terms that have disappeared are related to the lost art of ] macro assembly programming: ] IRP (erp) [from the MIDAS pseudo-op which generates a block of code ] Overall, very few entries seem to have disappeared from this almost- ] twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT. And, of course, the modern ] versions are *much* more voluminous. In the early 90's, there was actually one version of the preliminary on-line version of the "new" Jargon File (i.e. before print publication of _TNHD_) in which various archaic terms (such as "high moby" and "low moby") from the original "old" Jargon file were segregated into a separate appendix; but this wasn't very popular with the masses on alt.folklore.computers, and after further consideration, the majority of the terms in the archaic appendix were reintegrated into the main body of the dictionary in the next version, while a very few obsolete terms (mostly PDP-10 related) were simply eliminated. I don't know if the transient version of the new Jargon File with the archaic appendix is still available on-line anywhere; I may or may not have a copy on old 5 1/4" diskettes which may or may not still be readable ;-) -- Henry Churchyard churchh@usa.net http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/ ###### From: Eric Fischer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: 1 Nov 1999 23:58:06 GMT Organization: EnterAct Corp Turbo-Elite News Server Lines: 28 Message-ID: <7vl9ee$ivn$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <6uaeox7rcb.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.143.41 X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) Originator: enf@enteract.com (Eric Fischer) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail Neil Franklin wrote: >Tim Shoppa writes: >> >> I ran across a twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT, which >> contains several entries that I haven't seen in years. > >Could you diff it (or send me a copy to diff) vs the one I have at: For what it's worth, I compared your version (82-11-14) against one I had sitting around (81-07-22). Other than some minor formatting differences, the 82-11-14 version deletes nothing but adds: * mention that the file is kept at both MIT-MC and MIT-AI * credit to Geoff Goodfellow * entry for bit * entry for bit bucket * mangled anecdote about Jean Sammet in the entry for bug * definition for cruft in the entry for crufty * reference to Human Torch in the entry for flame * "an instantiation of the GC process" in the entry for GC * entry for gun * "the word HACK doesn't really have..." in the entry for happy hacking * reference to DECtape in the entry for microtape * entry for tail recursion * entry for waterbottle soccer eric ###### From: Shez Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 22:19:05 +0000 Organization: the Last Stop Cafe Message-ID: References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> Reply-To: Shez NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 941581444 nnrp-09:5314 NO-IDENT xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 4.01 Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!xerez.demon.co.uk!news Tim Shoppa of Trailing Edge Technology writes: >I ran across a twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT, which >contains several entries that I haven't seen in years. > > >BIN [short for BINARY; used as a second file name on ITS] 1. n. > BINARY. 2. BIN FILE: A file containing the BIN for a program. I'm surprised that bin has been omitted, after all it is a standard Unix directory name for binary files so it should still be considered current. -Shez. -- ____________________________________________________________ "No, `Eureka' is Greek for `This bath is too hot.'" -- Dr. Who ____________________________________________________________ Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe at ###### From: jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: 3 Nov 1999 22:21:11 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 25 Message-ID: <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> Reply-To: jcmorris@linus.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 941667671 7831 128.29.251.13 (3 Nov 1999 22:21:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Nov 1999 22:21:11 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG!jcmorris Tim Shoppa writes: [snip] >Other terms that have disappeared are related to the lost art of >macro assembly programming: >IRP (erp) [from the MIDAS pseudo-op which generates a block of code > repeatedly, substituting in various places the car and/or cdr of > the list(s) supplied at the IRP] v. To perform a series of tasks > repeatedly with a minor substitution each time through. "I guess > I'll IRP over these homework papers so I can give them some random > grade for this semester." IRP was "Indefinite Repeat" and dates at least to the IBMAP assembler under IBSYS, and (if I can find my language manuals for it) probably dates back at least to FAP (FORTRAN Assembly Program, the assembler that was part of the FMS system). I can't speak for the rest of the world, but the people I worked with always pronounced it "eye-are-pee". Either way, of course, it's now obsolete (except as discussion fodder here in a.f.c). Joe Morris ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> From: werme@nospam.mediaone.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #119 Lines: 20 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 01:06:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.109.1 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net 941677611 24.128.109.1 (Wed, 03 Nov 1999 20:06:51 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 20:06:51 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.44.7!wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) writes: >I can't speak for the rest of the world, but the people I worked with >always pronounced it "eye-are-pee". What do you expect from a company called Eye-Bee-Emm? At DEC, pretty much all opcodes and pseudo-ops were pronouncable. >Either way, of course, it's now obsolete _Please_ don't say things like that. That's a challenge. I'd like to write a Macro-10 macro processor in C and I don't have the time. I'm already getting too little sleeps and am falling behind in my Science news reading, so please be a little more considerate in the future. :-) -- Ric Werme | http://people.ne.mediaone.net/werme werme@nospam.mediaone.net | http://www.cyberportal.net/werme ^^^^^^^ delete ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:38:30 -0700 Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.138.153 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.138.153 X-Trace: 4 Nov 1999 10:38:32 -0700, 207.148.138.153 Lines: 37 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.50.1.43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!WCG!nntp.cadvision.com!news.cadvision.com!207.148.138.153 On 3 Nov 1999 22:21:11 GMT, jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) wrote: >Tim Shoppa writes: > >[snip] >>Other terms that have disappeared are related to the lost art of >>macro assembly programming: > >>IRP (erp) [from the MIDAS pseudo-op which generates a block of code >> repeatedly, substituting in various places the car and/or cdr of >> the list(s) supplied at the IRP] v. To perform a series of tasks >> repeatedly with a minor substitution each time through. "I guess >> I'll IRP over these homework papers so I can give them some random >> grade for this semester." > >IRP was "Indefinite Repeat" and dates at least to the IBMAP assembler >under IBSYS, and (if I can find my language manuals for it) probably >dates back at least to FAP (FORTRAN Assembly Program, the assembler >that was part of the FMS system). > >I can't speak for the rest of the world, but the people I worked with >always pronounced it "eye-are-pee". > >Either way, of course, it's now obsolete (except as discussion fodder >here in a.f.c). > >Joe Morris It was also (with leading dot .IRP) in PDP-11 MACRO and so it still exists in OpenVMS VAX MACRO-32 assembler. Also .IRPC to iterate over a list of characters. Great for parsing block structured macros (IF ... THEN ... ELSE ... IF -- RYO HLL)! Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian_Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) use address above to reply ###### From: "Chris Ward" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Lines: 26 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 13:14:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 138.89.13.111 X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 941721264 138.89.13.111 (Thu, 04 Nov 1999 08:14:24 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 08:14:24 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!netnews.com!news-feed.fnsi.net!nntp.msen.com!206.132.58.120.MISMATCH!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!gate.bCandid.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!typhoon1.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Tim Shoppa wrote in message news:381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com... > While reading some decades-old tapes for a collection of mine > (side-note: see http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/freeware.html for > details on the PDP-nn freeware archives that I'm distributing) > I ran across a twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT, which > contains several entries that I haven't seen in years. > > Reference points: I'm comparing a copy of JARGON.TXT found in the > [374,1] directory of the Fall 1981 RSX-11 DECUS SIGtape, available > over the web at > > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/jargon.txt > > with the "current" copy of jargon.txt on the net (at say, > Trivia... When I was a Stevens I remember Mark Crispin paid a visit (one of many I think) to M.I.T., and I remember that after it, hearing (from him) a good number of the entries in the old jargon file for the first time..... ###### From: albaugh@agames.com (Mike Albaugh) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Date: 4 Nov 1999 18:58:42 GMT Organization: Atari Games Corporation Lines: 33 Message-ID: <7vsl12$a2k$2@null.agames.com> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: java.agames.com X-Trace: null.agames.com 941741922 10324 192.245.83.156 (4 Nov 1999 18:58:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@agames.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Nov 1999 18:58:42 GMT X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!feeder.via.net!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!newshub1-work.home.com!null!albaugh Brian Inglis (Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca) wrote: : On 3 Nov 1999 22:21:11 GMT, jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe : Morris) wrote: : >Tim Shoppa writes: : > : >I can't speak for the rest of the world, but the people I worked with : >always pronounced it "eye-are-pee". Here, we usually pronounce it like Wyatt's last name :-) : > : >Either way, of course, it's now obsolete (except as discussion fodder : >here in a.f.c). : > : >Joe Morris : It was also (with leading dot .IRP) in PDP-11 MACRO and so it : still exists in OpenVMS VAX MACRO-32 assembler. Also .IRPC to : iterate over a list of characters. Great for parsing block : structured macros (IF ... THEN ... ELSE ... IF -- RYO HLL)! And lives on in the "highly MACRO-11 influenced" pre-processor which is used to manage configuration files here. Not that we tend to use .irp (or .irpc), but they are "still in there", in case we ever need to... Nothing like a _real_ macro-assembler to make complex jobs simple (and, unfortunately, to make some simple jobs complex, at the slip of an apostrophe :-) Mike | albaugh@agames.com, speaking only for myself ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Fri, 05 Nov 99 09:14:58 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 50 Message-ID: <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> X-Trace: WbqbnjD4hJYBfFlOZqOuKIlovg8WwWlQHplstU6dUfs= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Nov 1999 10:30:04 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!d2 In article , Brian Inglis wrote: >On 3 Nov 1999 22:21:11 GMT, jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe >Morris) wrote: > >>Tim Shoppa writes: >> >>[snip] >>>Other terms that have disappeared are related to the lost art of >>>macro assembly programming: >> >>>IRP (erp) [from the MIDAS pseudo-op which generates a block of code >>> repeatedly, substituting in various places the car and/or cdr of >>> the list(s) supplied at the IRP] v. To perform a series of tasks >>> repeatedly with a minor substitution each time through. "I guess >>> I'll IRP over these homework papers so I can give them some random >>> grade for this semester." >> >>IRP was "Indefinite Repeat" and dates at least to the IBMAP assembler >>under IBSYS, and (if I can find my language manuals for it) probably >>dates back at least to FAP (FORTRAN Assembly Program, the assembler >>that was part of the FMS system). >> >>I can't speak for the rest of the world, but the people I worked with >>always pronounced it "eye-are-pee". >> >>Either way, of course, it's now obsolete (except as discussion fodder >>here in a.f.c). >> >>Joe Morris > >It was also (with leading dot .IRP) in PDP-11 MACRO and so it >still exists in OpenVMS VAX MACRO-32 assembler. Also .IRPC to >iterate over a list of characters. Great for parsing block >structured macros (IF ... THEN ... ELSE ... IF -- RYO HLL)! Oh, boy. Did I hate that [putting a bloody dot in front of a macro]. In the old -11 days, printers weren't all that clear and a dot could be missed or observed; for some reason it was always the wrong way :-). It was a good thing that ASR35s had the equivalent of large pixels. Also, programmers from certain groups had a habit of not writing a dot; some also had a habit of resting their pencil on the paper which produced an unwanted dot. These were a few of the problems with coding forms. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Charlie Gibbs" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: 05 Nov 99 10:14:28 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-213.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!howland.erols.net!nntp2.lotsanews.com.MISMATCH!pln-e!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 In article <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com (jmfbahciv) writes: > some also had a habit >of resting their pencil on the paper which produced an >unwanted dot. I always got nervous when I saw people approaching my master listings with a loaded pencil. Not that they intended to modify them - but many people seem to be unable to think without at least making little marks all over a piece of paper, even if they don't go so far as outright doodling. If there were going to be marks on my listings, they were doing to be mine, darn it, to indicate proposed changes - not the trail of someone trying to collect his thoughts. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: Bernie Cosell Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 10:07:28 -0500 Organization: Fantasy Farm Fibers Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.pop.de!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Tim Shoppa wrote: } While reading some decades-old tapes for a collection of mine } (side-note: see http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/freeware.html for } details on the PDP-nn freeware archives that I'm distributing) } I ran across a twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT, which } contains several entries that I haven't seen in years. This has been a very difficult [and often contentious] affair among the folks messing with the jargon file. Basically, the "policy" question arose as to whether the jargon file should be a historical document reflecting jargon from the "grand old days" [sic :o)] or a _current _ document [basically describing "the language as she is spoken"]. After a lot of wrangling, some of the old ITS/PDP-10 terms were dropped. } TECO (tee'koe) [acronym for Text Editor and COrrector] 1. n. A text } editor developed at MIT, and modified by just about everybody. If } all the dialects are included, TECO might well be the single most } prolific editor in use. Hmm... this is interesting. Most 'folklore' hackers know that TECO is an acronym for *TAPE* editor and corrector, emended after-the-fact to be 'text' when most folks using it had never even _seen_ a paper tape [although the basic terminology lived on as you 'yanked' a new buffer of text in and 'punched' the old out]... The online Hacker's Dictionary entry for TECO says" >>> [originally an acronym for `[paper] Tape Editor and COrrector'; later, `Text >>> Editor and COrrector'] and I'd have guessed that older versions would have been more careful [since it would've been less of an archaic memory] to keep the 'tape' reference in... Guess not /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Sat, 06 Nov 99 10:34:04 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 36 Message-ID: <8014jv$doh$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> X-Trace: cqnk/z2wOug2x6CGdedIx6SqmQ2X2phY4vSbfurs1zo= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Nov 1999 11:49:19 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!d13 In article <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >In article <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com >(jmfbahciv) writes: > >> some also had a habit >>of resting their pencil on the paper which produced an >>unwanted dot. > >I always got nervous when I saw people approaching my master >listings with a loaded pencil. Not that they intended to >modify them - but many people seem to be unable to think >without at least making little marks all over a piece of >paper, even if they don't go so far as outright doodling. >If there were going to be marks on my listings, they were >doing to be mine, darn it, to indicate proposed changes - >not the trail of someone trying to collect his thoughts. > Heh. That's why the only TOPS10 monitor edits that got edited where those marked by IBM cards on the _left hand side_ of the listing. Cards on the right hand side indicated edits that were already done and were also ignored by the people who did the edit. Shit...now I'm not sure which side was which...John?.. So we would open the listing at the first card, do the edit and then move the card to the done side. Any other marks in the listing were also ignored. However, those of us who were really good at what we did, made sure that pencil scribbles that hadn't been marked by Monitor Change Indicators were to be ignored. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 15:49:28 +0000 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 29 Message-ID: <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> Reply-To: richmond@plano.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > In article <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com > (jmfbahciv) writes: > > > some also had a habit > >of resting their pencil on the paper which produced an > >unwanted dot. > > I always got nervous when I saw people approaching my master > listings with a loaded pencil. Not that they intended to > modify them - but many people seem to be unable to think > without at least making little marks all over a piece of > paper, even if they don't go so far as outright doodling. > If there were going to be marks on my listings, they were > doing to be mine, darn it, to indicate proposed changes - > not the trail of someone trying to collect his thoughts. > I recently worked with an older programmer (older than me, by about 10 years) that penciled up his listing using *colored* pencils. He kept a set of about a dozen different colored pencils for this task. I have *no* idea what the penciling meant or why he needed all those colors. But I guess it was anal retentive enough for him to be a *good* programmer. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Sender: marc@dumbcat.snafu.org Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net> From: Marco S Hyman Date: 06 Nov 1999 17:27:08 -0800 Message-ID: Organization: S.N.A.F.U. (www.snafu.org) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.54.48.242 X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 941938028 214 marc@206.54.48.242 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news2.best.com!news3.best.com!nntp1.ba.best.com!not-for-mail Charles Richmond writes: > I recently worked with an older programmer (older than me, by > about 10 years) that penciled up his listing using *colored* > pencils. He kept a set of about a dozen different colored > pencils for this task. I have *no* idea what the penciling > meant or why he needed all those colors. But I guess it was > anal retentive enough for him to be a *good* programmer. Probably reminds him of the way he used to mark up the tops of card decks with felt pens. (Having missed the beginning of this thread I'm wondering if I just brought it full circle or not :-) // marc ###### From: "donald tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 10:53:14 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 37 Message-ID: <8047t9$spr$2@news.igs.net> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttya00.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 941990633 29499 216.58.99.32 (7 Nov 1999 16:03:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Nov 1999 16:03:53 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!206.191.82.231!rockie.attcanada.net!172.31.25.103!prairie.attcanada.net!newsfeed.attcanada.net!216.58.1.11!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail Years back, when I had to schedule computer time for testing, I used coloured pens. I had about five, and I would switch colours after re-compiles. When you ran out of colours, it was time for a new listing, a 24 hour wait. Charles Richmond wrote in message <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net>... >Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >> In article <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com >> (jmfbahciv) writes: >> >> > some also had a habit >> >of resting their pencil on the paper which produced an >> >unwanted dot. >> >> I always got nervous when I saw people approaching my master >> listings with a loaded pencil. Not that they intended to >> modify them - but many people seem to be unable to think >> without at least making little marks all over a piece of >> paper, even if they don't go so far as outright doodling. >> If there were going to be marks on my listings, they were >> doing to be mine, darn it, to indicate proposed changes - >> not the trail of someone trying to collect his thoughts. >> >I recently worked with an older programmer (older than me, by >about 10 years) that penciled up his listing using *colored* >pencils. He kept a set of about a dozen different colored >pencils for this task. I have *no* idea what the penciling >meant or why he needed all those colors. But I guess it was >anal retentive enough for him to be a *good* programmer. > >-- >+-------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Charles and Francis Richmond | >+-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: nailed_barnacleSPAMFREE@hotmail.com (barnacle) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 17:54:12 GMT Organization: [posted via Easynet Ltd] Lines: 20 Message-ID: <804edf$2q7q$1@quince.news.easynet.net> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: nbarnes.easynet.co.uk X-Trace: quince.news.easynet.net 941997295 92410 194.154.98.206 (7 Nov 1999 17:54:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Nov 1999 17:54:55 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-feed.fnsi.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!easynet-tele!easynet.net!quince.news.easynet.net!egbert In article <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net>, richmond@plano.net wrote: >Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> --snip-- >I recently worked with an older programmer (older than me, by >about 10 years) that penciled up his listing using *colored* >pencils. He kept a set of about a dozen different colored >pencils for this task. I have *no* idea what the penciling >meant or why he needed all those colors. But I guess it was >anal retentive enough for him to be a *good* programmer. > To quote Dilbert: How many of these pens do you need to be an engineer? *All* of them... -- barnacle http://www.nbarnes.easynet.co.uk ###### From: jvarela@mind-spring.com (John Varela) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: 7 Nov 1999 18:36:11 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.44.af Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: ProNews/2 Version 1.50 Beta 1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail On Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:49:28, Charles Richmond wrote: > I recently worked with an older programmer (older than me, by > about 10 years) that penciled up his listing using *colored* > pencils. He kept a set of about a dozen different colored > pencils for this task. I have *no* idea what the penciling > meant or why he needed all those colors. But I guess it was > anal retentive enough for him to be a *good* programmer. I don't know about a dozen different colors -- for one thing, I don't think I could reliably discriminate that many colors on a listing -- but perhaps his is a habit left over from being a hardware engineer. When I worked at Sperry Phoenix in the late 50s we marked up hardware drawings and schematics using three colors: as I recall, green was used to check off things that had been verified correct, and yellow and red were change instructions to the draftsman. Yellow indicated things to be deleted, and red was used for new things to be added. -- John "the yellow was hard to see" Varela to e-mail, remove - between mind and spring ###### From: Joe Pfeiffer Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: 07 Nov 1999 22:24:44 -0700 Organization: NMSU Computer Science Lines: 27 Message-ID: <1bn1spftcz.fsf@rhuidean.cs.nmsu.edu> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rhuidean.cs.nmsu.edu X-Trace: bubba.NMSU.Edu 942038681 11942 128.123.64.135 (8 Nov 1999 05:24:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@bubba.NMSU.Edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Nov 1999 05:24:41 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.digex.net.MISMATCH!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!intermedia!lynx.unm.edu!news.NMSU.Edu!not-for-mail Charles Richmond writes: > > > I recently worked with an older programmer (older than me, by > about 10 years) that penciled up his listing using *colored* > pencils. He kept a set of about a dozen different colored > pencils for this task. I have *no* idea what the penciling > meant or why he needed all those colors. But I guess it was > anal retentive enough for him to be a *good* programmer. I remember taking a class in FORTRAN (that's FORTRAN IV, not 77 or any of those other later wienie dialects) programming from a guy named Walt Dunn in 1976. He insisted that we write code that was decomposable according to Dijkstra's canonical forms, that we indent, and that we annotate our listings by drawing arrows showing flow of control. There was some sort of complicated color coding scheme involving a tabletop full of pencils that I don't understand now at all. But I learned more about proper programming-in-the-small from that class than I ever did in any of my Pascal classes. I'm still convinced that if you can write structured code in FORTRAN, you can do it in anything. My assembly language students come away with horror stories about what I do to them (though when I remember Walt Dunn's assignments, I feel like a wimp). -- Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605 Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002 New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer ###### From: J. Chris Hausler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Mon, 8 Nov 99 13:34:29 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net> <1bn1spftcz.fsf@rhuidean.cs.nmsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.93.4.2 X-To: Joe Pfeiffer Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.netcrusader.net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!news-feed1.tiac.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!news.delphi.com!news Joe Pfeiffer writes: >But I learned more about proper programming-in-the-small from that >class than I ever did in any of my Pascal classes. I'm still >convinced that if you can write structured code in FORTRAN, you can do >it in anything. My assembly language students come away with horror >stories about what I do to them (though when I remember Walt Dunn's >assignments, I feel like a wimp). There were several preprocessors which would take a sort of structured form of Fortran and turn it into straight Fortran IV. The two which come to mind are RATFOR (Rational Fortran) and the one I used, FLECS (Fortran Language with Extendable Control Structures). FLECS came out of the University of Oregon. As to colored pencils, at the place I worked for many years, it was red in and yellow out. The yellow needed to be see through so you could see what you were supposed to take out. The red stood out from the lines on the blue prints (actually white prints :-) Chris ###### From: slavins.at.hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost (Simon Slavin) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 22:39:16 +0000 Organization: First Sirian Bank Message-ID: References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: hearsay.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: hearsay.demon.co.uk:194.222.24.177 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 942100750 nnrp-01:13713 NO-IDENT hearsay.demon.co.uk:194.222.24.177 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 36 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!hearsay.demon.co.uk!user In article <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: > I recently worked with an older programmer (older than me, by > about 10 years) that penciled up his listing using *colored* > pencils. He kept a set of about a dozen different colored > pencils for this task. I have *no* idea what the penciling > meant or why he needed all those colors. I did that sometimes when working on a money-critical application. The development process for this thing involved a critical testing cycle that was hideously expensive in time and resources. So much so that if there were three bugs in the current version, instead of correcting them one-by-one and testing each correction, all three were corrected and only the final version tested. To do that, each bug would be assigned a colour and everythings about that bug would be written in that colour. So we'd have a 'red bug' which had a 'red folder' full of notes, source-code would be amended in red on the printout, and revision history had '(red)' next to any change that was made because of this bug. It was useful when reading the printout because I seem to be able to tell my eyes 'scan for anything red'. If that revision passed testing but some remanents of the red bug was later discovered it would be called 'red 2'. In-joke for the development team: walk into the Monday meeting and see new a box of, for example, brown pencils on the table. Big groan goes up. Simon. -- http://www.hearsay.demon.co.uk | John Peel: No junk email please. | [My daughter] has modelled herself on you. | Courtney Love: | Oh, I'm so sorry. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: Tue, 09 Nov 99 10:53:15 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 55 Message-ID: <8092sp$bh4$2@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net> X-Trace: JUKw/Le6Vfl3txmxvo8CVo5cGtzWVi3UpAA+QAhmgHA= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Nov 1999 12:08:57 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!d2 In article , slavins.at.hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost (Simon Slavin) wrote: >In article <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net>, >Charles Richmond wrote: > >> I recently worked with an older programmer (older than me, by >> about 10 years) that penciled up his listing using *colored* >> pencils. He kept a set of about a dozen different colored >> pencils for this task. I have *no* idea what the penciling >> meant or why he needed all those colors. > >I did that sometimes when working on a money-critical application. >The development process for this thing involved a critical testing >cycle that was hideously expensive in time and resources. So much >so that if there were three bugs in the current version, instead of >correcting them one-by-one and testing each correction, all three >were corrected and only the final version tested. Good lord! If we had to do that [one bug fix/editing and testing cycle], we'ld still be pre-Level D specification! > To do that, each >bug would be assigned a colour and everythings about that bug would >be written in that colour. > >So we'd have a 'red bug' which had a 'red folder' full of notes, >source-code would be amended in red on the printout, and revision >history had '(red)' next to any change that was made because of >this bug. It was useful when reading the printout because I seem >to be able to tell my eyes 'scan for anything red'. If that >revision passed testing but some remanents of the red bug was >later discovered it would be called 'red 2'. That's awful! That implies that the edit history recorded for all time in the sources wouldn't have anything about what was learned with each reedit. There are advantages of having the trace in sources...especially if an idiot was in charge for a year. I took over a piece of code that was very important for the smooth running of a shop and had to eliminate _everything_ the guy did. If his stuff hadn't been documented in the sources, I would have had to try to find an original and then apply all the good fixes. > >In-joke for the development team: walk into the Monday meeting and >see new a box of, for example, brown pencils on the table. Big >groan goes up. Who was in charge of the brown pencil box? :-) That must have been a symbol of power. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: David Scheidt Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: 15 Nov 1999 02:04:33 GMT Organization: EnterAct Corp. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <80npnh$2j14$2@news.enteract.com> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> <7vqcgn$7kn$1@top.mitre.org> <7vubjc$hcr$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <767.978T1436T6145269@sky.bus.com> <38244E08.A0602D5E@plano.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell-1.enteract.com X-Trace: news.enteract.com 942631473 85028 207.229.143.40 (15 Nov 1999 02:04:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.enteract.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Nov 1999 02:04:33 GMT User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990624 ("Dawnrazor") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.3-STABLE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!betanews.enteract.com!not-for-mail Charles Richmond wrote: :> : I recently worked with an older programmer (older than me, by : about 10 years) that penciled up his listing using *colored* : pencils. He kept a set of about a dozen different colored : pencils for this task. I have *no* idea what the penciling : meant or why he needed all those colors. But I guess it was : anal retentive enough for him to be a *good* programmer. I am not old, by any stretch, but I often mark things up in multiple colored pens. The colors don't mean anything by themselves, but I know that if I see green or pink or purple ink on something, it is more likely to by my markings then blue, black, or red. They are also useful for multiple passes through a document, so you can track what changes you thing you needed at a given point. David Scheidt -- dscheidt@enteract.com Yes, but they forgot to put in the essential checkbox: "I am not a brain-damaged lemur on crack". -- Mark Hughes