From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Core memory data retention (Was: Does anyone sell old core memory) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:36:01 +0000 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 58 Message-ID: <381A3D71.47BE15A8@plano.net> References: <38176c75@news.spies.com> <7v9jnl$j8c$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> Reply-To: richmond@plano.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail John Atkinson wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > Working for Telex in Central London we used to take the core memory > cards of site to a working system re-load the micro code jump on the > tube train or bus and install it back at the site with the problem. > Worked every time. > That is a great *use* of the core memory's ability to retain information. The following quote if from _Computers in Space_, by James E. Tomayko: "The original Skylab mission lasted 272 days, with about 180 days of astronaut occupancy. When the last crew left, they turned everything off, including the computers. By then a sunshade protected the main part of Skylab; the station went into a long sleep, without having to worry about drifting. The money had run out. NASA intended to boost Skylab to a higher orbit once the Shuttle began flying. Maybe then they could use it as the core of an enlarged space station, adding on until it looked much like the Russian Mir does today. Unfortunately, the middle 1970s was a period of greatly increased solar activity. As the sun blasted Earth with different kinds of radiation, the atmosphere thickened. Even at hundreds of miles above Earth, the drag of the atmosphere slowed Skylab. Its orbit began to decay. NASA realized there was a danger that tons of melted metal could survive reentry, endangering people and property on the ground. They prepared two new computer programs. One pointed the narrowest part of the space station in the direction of flight, to reduce drag and help it stay up longer. The second program could exercise some control over re-entry, and might prevent Skylab from crashing through some unfortunate suburban family's roof. Before the programs could be loaded on Skylab, engineers needed to find out if the computers still worked. In March 11, 1978, they briefly fired up the processors. The computers came on line, exactly where they had left off four years and 30 days earlier! (This is the best thing about core memory.) Four IBM programmers coded the new control codes, and they sent them up to Skylab. The on-board computers retransmitted them bit-by-bit to the ground, where they were manually checked. Once IBM and NASA were satisfied, the new programs kicked in. For 393 days the computers flew Skylab, trying to save it for the day the Shuttle could come to the rescue. (Unfortunately, the Shuttle program at that time had suffered all sorts of delays.) Finally, the re-entry program had to be used as Skylab burned up. A big piece of a tank and other scattered fragments landed in the Australian outback. The largest remnant, as bit as a small car, rests in the Alabama Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville--not far from NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center, where the Skylab project originated a quarter of a century earlier. The computers, inanimate heroes, had gone down with the ship." -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Dave Salovesh Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Core memory data retention (Was: Does anyone sell old core memory) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:25:27 -0400 Organization: 'Round midnight. Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <38176c75@news.spies.com> <7v9jnl$j8c$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <381A3D71.47BE15A8@plano.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 01+aiwBTAp0oXfPmn4E1yGiJioN8G1VTIReMmlXR7TQ= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Oct 1999 17:25:32 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail In article <381A3D71.47BE15A8@plano.net>, Charles Richmond opined: (snip) Aww. I was hoping to hear that they recovered core memory from the wreck and it was still readable... -- Dave Salovesh darsal@erols.com To each is given a key to heaven; the same key opens the gates to hell. ###### Message-ID: <381B8638.7FDA2A43@hiwaay.net> From: Bob Crispen Organization: http://home.hiwaay.net/~crispen/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Core memory data retention (Was: Does anyone sell old core memory) References: <38176c75@news.spies.com> <7v9jnl$j8c$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <381A3D71.47BE15A8@plano.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.23.59 X-Trace: typ11.nn.bcandid.com 941327964 216.180.23.59 (Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:59:24 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:59:24 EDT Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:58:48 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!gw12.nn.bcandid.com!gate.bCandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!typ11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail The old GP-4 computers used for flight simulators (some are still in use today) had core memory, and it was a common experience to disassemble the computer, ship it to another site, reassemble it, power it on, and it would start running where it left off. -- Bob Crispen crispen at hiwaay dot net What we're looking for: destinations. What we end up getting: journeys. ###### From: andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Core memory data retention (Was: Does anyone sell old core memory) Date: 31 Oct 1999 10:15:18 GMT Organization: home Message-ID: <7vh4rm$pi@cucumber.demon.co.uk> References: <38176c75@news.spies.com> <7v9jnl$j8c$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <381A3D71.47BE15A8@plano.net> <381B8638.7FDA2A43@hiwaay.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber X-NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 941367908 nnrp-11:25509 NO-IDENT cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.6 Lines: 10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!cucumber.demon.co.uk!usenet Core memory in miltary installations which went faulty was quite a problem. Usually its potentially sensitive contents could not be erased before return for repair, which often resulted in it being accompanied in person throughout the repair facility by military personnel. -- Andrew Gabriel Consultant Software Engineer ###### From: Digital.Magic@cadvision.com (John W Hall) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Core memory data retention (Was: Does anyone sell old core memory) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 01:19:03 GMT Message-ID: <381ce9e5.40155678@news.cadvision.com> References: <38176c75@news.spies.com> <7v9jnl$j8c$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <381A3D71.47BE15A8@plano.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.135.219 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.135.219 X-Trace: 31 Oct 1999 18:19:41 -0700, 207.148.135.219 Organization: CADVision Development Corporation (http://www.cadvision.com/) Lines: 9 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.50.1.43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!do.de.uu.net!newsfeed.tli.de!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.cadvision.com!news.cadvision.com!207.148.135.219 >Aww. I was hoping to hear that they recovered core memory from the >wreck and it was still readable... The bits stored in individual core donuts probable were still in good shape, but I expect the wires supporting them would have broken and the dounts fell off and become scrambled into a bucketfull 'o bits. ###### From: Jim Stewart Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Core memory data retention (Was: Does anyone sell old core memory) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 08:56:02 -0800 Organization: http://www.jkmicro.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: X-Orig-Message-ID: <381DC622.5CE591A9@jkmicro.com> References: <38176c75@news.spies.com> <7v9jnl$j8c$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <381A3D71.47BE15A8@plano.net> <381B8638.7FDA2A43@hiwaay.net> Reply-To: jstewart@jkmicro.com Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Mon Nov 1 10:52:48 1999 NNTP-Posting-Host: !X#kV1k-VnU7%K"FV&,4AS`,, (Encoded at Airnews!) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp.flash.net!news.airnews.net!cabal12.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet Bob Crispen wrote: > > The old GP-4 computers used for flight simulators (some are > still in use today) had core memory, and it was a common > experience to disassemble the computer, ship it to another > site, reassemble it, power it on, and it would start running > where it left off. The last factory test DEC would run on their PDP 8/e machines was an exerciser program called X-8. When we installed a new machine in the field, we'd mount media on all the peripherals and press start. It was impressive to see the machine come alive and be moving tape and disk heads right out of the crate. Jim ###### From: David M. Razler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Core memory data retention (Was: Does anyone sell old core memory) Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 12:18:17 -0500 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <38176c75@news.spies.com> <7v9jnl$j8c$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <381A3D71.47BE15A8@plano.net> <381ce9e5.40155678@news.cadvision.com> Reply-To: david.razler@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.65.53 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net 941476744 10127 12.79.65.53 (1 Nov 1999 17:19:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Nov 1999 17:19:04 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail Digital.Magic@cadvision.com (John W Hall) wrote: | | >Aww. I was hoping to hear that they recovered core memory from the | >wreck and it was still readable... | | The bits stored in individual core donuts probable were still in good | shape, but I expect the wires supporting them would have broken and | the dounts fell off and become scrambled into a bucketfull 'o bits. | Not sure where this thread started - if you are referring to the Challenger wreck, the core and tape memories were recovered but heat and sudden temp changes had left (reportedly by NASA) no recoverable data. Then again, the wreck itself was "endoumbed" in a WATER! filled missile silo, rather than (as Apollo 1) preserved in a secure storage container, damn them. Both wrecks should be turned over to the Smithsonian, IMHO. (I do not particularly want to see the capsule where three of my childhood heros died on my 10th birthday, but I would like to know it is safe and accessable to those who wish to learn from the mistakes of the past. dmr David M. Razler david.razler@worldnet.att.net ###### From: David M. Razler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Core memory data retention (Was: Does anyone sell old core memory) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 10:16:15 -0500 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 39 Message-ID: <4VAgOOgV2ar+FNpF8feudeBHHKou@4ax.com> References: <38176c75@news.spies.com> <7v9jnl$j8c$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> <381A3D71.47BE15A8@plano.net> <381ce9e5.40155678@news.cadvision.com> Reply-To: david.razler@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.65.179 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net 941642223 17026 12.79.65.179 (3 Nov 1999 15:17:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Nov 1999 15:17:03 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!attmtf!ip.att.net!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) wrote: | In article , | David M. Razler writes: | [...] | > Not sure where this thread started - if you are referring to the Challenger | > wreck, the core and tape memories were recovered but heat and sudden temp | > changes had left (reportedly by NASA) no recoverable data. | > | > Then again, the wreck itself was "endoumbed" in a WATER! filled missile silo, | > rather than (as Apollo 1) preserved in a secure storage container, damn them. | > | > Both wrecks should be turned over to the Smithsonian, IMHO. (I do not | > particularly want to see the capsule where three of my childhood heros died on | > my 10th birthday, but I would like to know it is safe and accessable to those | > who wish to learn from the mistakes of the past. | [...] | | As the Challenger wreck spent some time under water, the safest place for | it to be stored is in a water-filled container, believe it or not. | Low-oxygen water is a great preserver. If they took it out of the water | into the air, they'd have to dry it off very quickly or it would corrode | to uselessness within days. As they still don't know whether they've got | all the information they need out of it, then the missile silo is the best | choice. 1) if we were dealing with wood and lo-O2 water I'd agree 2) it was allowed to thorougly dry out and was clensed during the accident investigation and reassembly 3) the groundwater at KSC is low-salinity O2-rich, 70-90 degree F, microbe infested nasty stuff. It is not like the bottom of the ocean. They deliberately placed it in a vat where it would turn to powder and glop! dmr David M. Razler david.razler@worldnet.att.net