From: "Lee Courtney" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:13:32 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!grolier!209.249.97.47.MISMATCH!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Hi all, A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? I know the IBM 1620 and XDS Sigma 7 had sense switches on the front panel to control program execution. Did any models of the System/360 incorporate sense switches? Thanks, Lee Courtney ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Organization: spies.com From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) NNTP-Posting-Host: goonsquad.spies.com Message-ID: <380ac0a9@news.spies.com> Date: 17 Oct 1999 23:39:37 -0800 X-Trace: 17 Oct 1999 23:39:37 -0800, goonsquad.spies.com Lines: 8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!grolier!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.spies.com!spies.com!aek "A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches?" If you include minicomputers, the switch register on a PDP-11 was readable as a memory location, and the Varian 620 and 70 series had explicit instructions for program flow control based on the state of three front panel sense switches. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: nospam@nowhere.com (Steve Myers) Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Reply-To: nospam@nowhere.com (Steve Myers) References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5 Lines: 27 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:33:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.71.85.72 X-Complaints-To: abuse@voicenet.com X-Trace: news3.voicenet.com 940228384 209.71.85.72 (Mon, 18 Oct 1999 02:33:04 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 02:33:04 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!news.voicenet.com!news3.voicenet.com!not-for-mail The 360/20 had an instruction to read console dials. They might count as sense switches. -- Steve Myers The E-mail addresses in this message are private property. Any use of them to send unsolicited E-mail messages of a commerical nature will be considered trespassing, and the originator of the message will be sued in small claims court in Camden County, New Jersey, for the maximum penalty allowed by law. In , "Lee Courtney" writes: >Hi all, > >A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production >machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? I know the IBM >1620 and XDS Sigma 7 had sense switches on the front panel to control >program execution. Did any models of the System/360 incorporate sense >switches? > >Thanks, > >Lee Courtney > > ###### From: null@lycosmail.com (Fred Wedemeier) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:40:35 GMT Organization: Airnews.net! at Internet America Lines: 15 Message-ID: <6EFC5ABF39B27D4F.81462CD05EDA1EA2.B80DD47DBF246524@lp.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: <7uefbd$q3g@library1.airnews.net> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> Abuse-Reports-To: abuse at airmail.net to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library1.airnews.net NNTP-Posting-Time: Mon Oct 18 01:39:41 1999 NNTP-Posting-Host: !bcNu1k-YGW%(6s (Encoded at Airnews!) X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!grolier!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news.airnews.net!cabal10.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!flintwood-1 In article , "Lee Courtney" wrote: >Hi all, > >A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production >machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? If you want to include 16-bit mini machines, the Texas Instruments 980 series might be a candidate. They were being sold in the late 70s, maybe still in the very early 80s. -- --------------------------------------------------- best regards, Fred Wedemeier null@lycosmail.com ###### From: ignatios@cs.uni-bonn.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 18 Oct 1999 09:29:19 GMT Organization: RHRZ - University of Bonn (Germany) Lines: 15 Message-ID: <7uep9f$14os@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> References: <380ac0a9@news.spies.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cauchy.cs.uni-bonn.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.tli.de!do.de.uu.net!news-koe1.dfn.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de!usenet In article <380ac0a9@news.spies.com>, aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) writes: > "A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production > machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches?" Does the Amiga 1200 count? It has a keyboard in the main CPU[1] case, although that keyboard has its own processor and sends events to the main machine via a serial line... Regards, -is -- * Progress (n.): The process through which Usenet has evolved from smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front of smart terminals. -- obs@burnout.demon.co.uk (obscurity) ###### Message-ID: <380B2C47.E57A81FB@cs.uml.edu> From: Paul Wexelblat X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 36 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:18:47 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.63.8.141 X-Trace: testbox 940256396 129.63.8.141 (Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:19:56 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:19:56 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!remarQ.com!supernews.com!btnet-peer!btnet!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!testbox!not-for-mail PDP-1 (do you include testword switches as sense switches?) Steve Myers wrote: > The 360/20 had an instruction to read console dials. They might count as > sense switches. > > -- Steve Myers > > The E-mail addresses in this message are private property. Any use of them > to send unsolicited E-mail messages of a commerical nature will be > considered trespassing, and the originator of the message will be sued in > small claims court in Camden County, New Jersey, for the maximum penalty > allowed by law. > > In , "Lee Courtney" writes: > >Hi all, > > > >A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production > >machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? I know the IBM > >1620 and XDS Sigma 7 had sense switches on the front panel to control > >program execution. Did any models of the System/360 incorporate sense > >switches? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Lee Courtney > > > > -- ...wex ###### From: jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 18 Oct 1999 13:51:58 GMT Organization: The University of Iowa Lines: 38 Message-ID: <7uf8lu$ghm$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-feed.news.verio.net!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail From article , by "Lee Courtney" : > > A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production > machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? I know the IBM > 1620 and XDS Sigma 7 had sense switches on the front panel to control > program execution. Did any models of the System/360 incorporate sense > switches? Machines I've used with sense switches: Honeywell DDP-516 PDP-8/F PDP-11/20 Modcomp IV IMSAI 8080 Altair 8800 The 8/F and Modcomp IV were released in around 1974, the 11/20 in 1970, the Altair around 1976 and the IMSAI perhaps a year later. The 11/45 also had sense switches, it was contemporaneous with the Modcomp IV. Later PDP-8 and PDP-11 systems had calculator-style keypads, in octal, taking the place of binary sense switches. They did much the same thing, but they didn't look as nice. The PDP-8/A and PDP-11/20 front panels were in this class. Of course, the IBM System 360 had a full featured front panel, complete with sense switches. I never used a 360 except through dialup lines, though, but I've had the privilege of toggling in a bootstrap loader on all of the machines I've listed above. (The bootstrap loader on the Modcomp IV was by far the easiest to toggle in. It was one instruction. You just left it on the switches at all times, so booting the machine was a matter of hitting clear, deposit and finally run.) Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu ###### From: Cliff Sojourner Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:06:59 -0700 Organization: Cisco Systems Lines: 22 Message-ID: <380B8BF3.48F1EFC@cisco.com> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cache-Post-Path: sj-nntpcache-1.cisco.com!unknown@cls-pc.cisco.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Tandem systems had (have) instructions to read the "switches" and write the "LEDs", long after those two things disappeared from the front "panel" of the newer machines. Lee Courtney wrote: > > Hi all, > > A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production > machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? I know the IBM > 1620 and XDS Sigma 7 had sense switches on the front panel to control > program execution. Did any models of the System/360 incorporate sense > switches? > > Thanks, > > Lee Courtney -- Cliff Sojourner, Cisco Systems Inc. cls@cisco.com (408) 527-7637 170 W. Tasman Drive, SJ CA 95134 bldg H2/cube E2-7 warning: cape does not enable wearer to fly. ###### From: "daniel bradatanu" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <380ac0a9@news.spies.com> <7uep9f$14os@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Lines: 23 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:11:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.58.5.68 X-Complaints-To: abuse@idirect.com X-Trace: quark.idirect.com 940263119 209.58.5.68 (Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:11:59 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:11:59 EDT Organization: via Internet Direct - http://www.mydirect.com/ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!blackbush.xlink.net!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.direct.ca!brick.direct.ca!quark.idirect.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Honeywell 316 has 4 sense switches. Ignatios Souvatzis wrote in message <7uep9f$14os@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>... >In article <380ac0a9@news.spies.com>, > aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) writes: >> "A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production >> machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches?" > >Does the Amiga 1200 count? It has a keyboard in the main CPU[1] case, although >that keyboard has its own processor and sends events to the main machine via >a serial line... > >Regards, > -is >-- > * Progress (n.): The process through which Usenet has evolved from > smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front of > smart terminals. -- obs@burnout.demon.co.uk (obscurity) ###### From: "daniel bradatanu" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <380ac0a9@news.spies.com> <7uep9f$14os@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Lines: 25 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:12:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.58.5.68 X-Complaints-To: abuse@idirect.com X-Trace: quark.idirect.com 940263177 209.58.5.68 (Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:12:57 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:12:57 EDT Organization: via Internet Direct - http://www.mydirect.com/ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!brick.direct.ca!quark.idirect.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Sorry for the second post but my PDP 8/S uses the console switches as "sense switches" under program control. Ignatios Souvatzis wrote in message <7uep9f$14os@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de>... >In article <380ac0a9@news.spies.com>, > aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) writes: >> "A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production >> machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches?" > >Does the Amiga 1200 count? It has a keyboard in the main CPU[1] case, although >that keyboard has its own processor and sends events to the main machine via >a serial line... > >Regards, > -is >-- > * Progress (n.): The process through which Usenet has evolved from > smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front of > smart terminals. -- obs@burnout.demon.co.uk (obscurity) ###### From: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 18 Oct 1999 18:10:42 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 24 Message-ID: <7ufnr2$m65$1@uwm.edu> References: Reply-To: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.203 Originator: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!naxos.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!alpha3.csd.uwm.edu!jgd The UNIVAC 1100 systems have 15 sense switches per CPU. (Formal name: "Jump Select Switches") These are testable in both privileged and user modes. There are also 4 "Halt Jump" switches, also testable in both modes. (But the machine will only stop if it is in Exec [privileged] mode.) These are carried forward to the 2200 series. On the older machines, these are physical switches on the maintenance ("blinky light") panel, and the system console. On the later systems, the physical switches have been replaced with internal circuitry that is set/reset via the operator console and/or maintenance processor. -- John G Dobnick "Knowing how things work is the basis Information & Media Technologies for appreciation, and is thus a University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee source of civilized delight." jgd@uwm.edu ATTnet: (414) 229-5727 -- William Safire ###### From: "David Carey" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:39:29 -0500 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 36 Message-ID: <7ugelt$oqq$1@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.75.44.26 X-Trace: bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net 940293629 25434 12.75.44.26 (19 Oct 1999 00:40:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Oct 1999 00:40:29 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail Lee Courtney wrote in message news:s0leignmr0179@corp.supernews.com... > Hi all, > > A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production > machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? I know the IBM > 1620 and XDS Sigma 7 had sense switches on the front panel to control > program execution. Did any models of the System/360 incorporate sense > switches? > > Thanks, > > Lee Courtney > > When the 360 line came out the physical switches went away - to be replaced with UPSI (User Program Switchable Indicators). These were implemented by a Job Control Language (JCL) Statement. // UPSI 00000001 The information was held in the Job's preamble (stored as a single byte) and available to the user program to read and set. Kind of like the environment in unix or pcdos, but with only one byte of info. I think there was also a JCL statement to test UPSI and conditionally execute/skip JCL based on the result but I don't recall the syntax. (Kind of like the pcdos errorlevel) DC ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: wtshyman@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Reply-To: wtshyman@NOUCE.mb.sympatico.ca Organization: No Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail, Please ! References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0 Lines: 31 Message-ID: <21PO3.1332$ti4.48946@news1.mts.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:35:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.200.59.70 X-Complaints-To: admin@mts.net X-Trace: news1.mts.net 940293310 205.200.59.70 (Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:35:10 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:35:10 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news.cs.utwente.nl!logbridge.uoregon.edu!cyclone.mbnet.mb.ca!news-in.mts.net!news1.mts.net!not-for-mail In , "Lee Courtney" writes: >Hi all, > >A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production >machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? I know the IBM >1620 and XDS Sigma 7 had sense switches on the front panel to control >program execution. Did any models of the System/360 incorporate sense >switches? > >Thanks, > >Lee Courtney > > Hmm. I once used ( and still have the remains) of a Westinghouse 2515 process control computer that had a "read sense switch" opcode in its instruction set, though the particular implementation didn't have a hardware front panel - you could dupicate the effect of the sense switches with a row of pushbuttons and LEDs that toggled on and off, though an itty bitty 8080 mediated between the awesome power of the 2515 CPU and the panel. This machine was sold in 1980, though it was said to be the last of its breed. Bill wtshyman@NOUCE.mb.sympatico.ca ( No household is complete without at least one machine with core memory in the basement.) ###### From: jwstephens@home.nospam.com (Jim Stephens) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Message-ID: <380bfcc2.96261352@news> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 05:09:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.1.182.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news.rdc2.occa.home.com 940309791 24.1.182.94 (Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:09:51 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:09:51 PDT Organization: @Home Network Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!naxos.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!feeder.via.net!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc2.occa.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:13:32 -0700, "Lee Courtney" wrote: >Hi all, The Microdata 1600 had four "sense switches" that were read with one micro instruction to a register, and another command read eight of the 16 console switches, which could be used to enter micro instructions or other data. The sense switches were used during the bootstrap that was included with most firmwares to determine whether the device was a dma device (and therefore did not need firmware assistance to read the bootstrap data), or not, such as a tty, which did need the firmware to read the boot. ###### From: "Charles Goodman" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Lines: 30 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: <3GUO3.1$4i2.244@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:00:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.66.46.17 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.mb.home.com 940316415 24.66.46.17 (Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:00:15 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:00:15 PDT Organization: @Home Network Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!feeder.via.net!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.mb.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Honeywell 200 series, 1975, physical switches, no console, o/s Mod1-MSR Honeywell 2400, 1977, physical switches, teletype console, o/s OS2000 Honeywell 66-440, 1982, no physical switches, CRT + printer for console, o/s GCOS used virtual sense switches for each job stream manipulated by JCL commands In all cases switches were directly readable from COBOL programs, GCOS allowed extension to SET verb to modify state of switches Charlie Goodman Lee Courtney wrote in message news:s0leignmr0179@corp.supernews.com... > Hi all, > > A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production > machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? I know the IBM > 1620 and XDS Sigma 7 had sense switches on the front panel to control > program execution. Did any models of the System/360 incorporate sense > switches? > > Thanks, > > Lee Courtney > > ###### Message-ID: <380CA2E9.3A78A579@thinkage.on.ca> From: "Alan T. Bowler" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <3GUO3.1$4i2.244@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:57:13 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.102.11.4 X-Trace: nnrp1.uunet.ca 940352387 192.102.11.4 (Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:59:47 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:59:47 EDT Organization: UUNET Canada News Reader Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!news.uunet.ca!nnrp1.uunet.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Charles Goodman wrote: > > Honeywell 66-440, 1982, no physical switches, CRT + printer for console, o/s > GCOS used virtual sense switches for each job stream manipulated by JCL > commands > > In all cases switches were directly readable from COBOL programs, GCOS > allowed extension to SET verb to modify state of switches Besides the switch/option word set by the JCL, if you opened the CPU panel there were real physical switches under some of the blinking lights. One of those switches could actually be read with a "read switch word" instruction. This was not generally useful the value was normally a transfer instruction. One of the other buttons on the panel was "execute switches". If the system was badly hung and not responding to the console, forced it to crash with a dump by having the switch value be a transfer to the 'die with a dump' location and pressing the execute switches button. The switches would always be left with the magic transfer value in them. Newer systems no longer have the physical switches, and the opcode has been renamed "read reserved memory". "reserved memory" is a chunk of control store that can be set/read by the diagnostic processor and is used to communicate control and configuration data with the CPU and IOP microcode. ###### From: cjt&trefoil Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:51:06 -0500 Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com Lines: 12 Message-ID: <380D4A3A.5684@prodigy.net> References: <380ac0a9@news.spies.com> Reply-To: cheljuba@prodigy.net NNTP-Posting-Host: austb204-32.splitrock.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com 940395124 2709921 209.253.20.183 (20 Oct 1999 04:52:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Oct 1999 04:52:04 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newscon02!prodigy.com!not-for-mail Al Kossow wrote: > > "A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production > machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches?" > > If you include minicomputers, the switch register on a PDP-11 was > readable as a memory location, and the Varian 620 and 70 series had > explicit instructions for program flow control based on the state of > three front panel sense switches. As I recall, Harris used sense switches on some of their machines into the 1980's. I could be wrong, though. ###### Message-ID: <380DC3C2.79309D33@iedu.org> From: Morris Dovey Organization: http://www.iedu.org/mrd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.36 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, pt, ru, es MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:29:38 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.108.37.10 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 940426300 207.108.37.10 (Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:31:40 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:31:40 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net!not-for-mail The IBM 1130 had a set of 16 "data switches" on the operator's console. Physical switches only made sense on single-user systems. Imagine the nightmare of multiple concurrently executing processes all attempting to get control inputs from a single set of switches! I do miss the blinking lights and control panels. I can remember shutting off the computer room lights and watching the show... Morris Dovey West Des Moines, Iowa USA mailto:mrdovey@iedu.org ###### From: Brian Boutel Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:45:06 +1300 Organization: Paradise Net Ltd. Customer Lines: 19 Message-ID: <380CF472.4E38D523@netscape.net> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <3GUO3.1$4i2.244@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shelley.paradise.net.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: titan.xtra.co.nz 940373108 9926650 203.96.152.26 (19 Oct 1999 22:45:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Oct 1999 22:45:08 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-148.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3b4 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!usenet.net.nz!news.wn.planet.gen.nz!news.netgate.net.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail Charles Goodman wrote: > > Honeywell 200 series, 1975, physical switches, no console, o/s Mod1-MSR Go back 10 years: Honeywell 200, 1965, physical switches, no console, no o/s Honeywell 1200 (still 200-series), 1968, physical switches, tty console, still no o/s Did that IBM1401 near-clone really survive to the mid '70s? > Honeywell 2400, 1977, physical switches, teletype console, o/s OS2000 > Honeywell 66-440, 1982, no physical switches, CRT + printer for console, o/s > GCOS used virtual sense switches for each job stream manipulated by JCL > commands > --brian ###### From: jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 20 Oct 1999 13:16:10 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 47 Message-ID: <7ukfaq$6tp$1@top.mitre.org> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <7ugelt$oqq$1@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> Reply-To: jcmorris@linus.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 940425370 7097 128.29.251.13 (20 Oct 1999 13:16:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Oct 1999 13:16:10 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!coop.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG!jcmorris "David Carey" writes: >Lee Courtney wrote: >> [...] Anyone know the last production machine(s) to incorporate front >> panel/console sense switches? >When the 360 line came out the physical switches went away - to be replaced >with UPSI (User Program Switchable Indicators). These were implemented by a >Job Control Language (JCL) Statement. >// UPSI 00000001 That was in DOS/360 (and probably TOS/360), but OS/360 never had any similar function. The S/360 models (with the exception, I think, of the 360/85) *did* have front panel toggle switches, but they were used to enter address and data values when someone needed to display or modify data in memory. The 360 architecture didn't include instructions to allow a program to read their settings. Yup...that was the challenge. When my shop installed its first S/360 it was a model 40; one of the tasks it performed was to do the spooling and despooling of job streams for a 7040. This had been done by a 1401 where the process was controlled by the sense switches; the initial implementation of this on the 360/40 (under MFT-I, version 13) used a very awkward control procedure via the 1052 Selectric console typewriter. The operators wanted a faster way to do this, for example to abort a print task that was throwing paper because the programmer forgot to include carriage control characters). With a little digging in the CE documentation and the microcode source listings (which were part of the normal CE documentation kit!) I found ways to read the console switches on the /360 models 30, 40, 50, 65, and 75 (which were all that were shipping at the time). The procedure was model-dependent and (except for the /75) required the use of the DIAGNOSE instruction, which itself is documented as being model-dependent. So...even if they weren't intended by IBM to be used as sense switches, these S/360 models had switches that could be used in their place. Joe Morris ###### From: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 20 Oct 1999 15:17:20 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 41 Message-ID: <7ukme0$f4q$1@uwm.edu> References: <380DC3C2.79309D33@iedu.org> Reply-To: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.203 Originator: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!uwm.edu!alpha3.csd.uwm.edu!jgd From article <380DC3C2.79309D33@iedu.org>, by Morris Dovey : > > The IBM 1130 had a set of 16 "data switches" on the operator's console. So did the UNIVAC 1108, and successors. (Latest models have "virtual switches" settable from the operator console (and/or diagnostic processor). > Physical switches only made sense on single-user systems. Imagine the > nightmare of multiple concurrently executing processes all attempting to > get control inputs from a single set of switches! Only if multiple programs try to use them "simultaneously" (for various values of "simultaneous"). On the UNIVAC (now Unisys) machines, which were most definitely multi-user [1], these switches are visible to user programs. Controlling their use is more of a site management issue, though. Traditionally, they are used the the operating system to control system operation: selecting various bootstrap options, and controlling system actions upon "panic" (XER11) conditions. > I do miss the blinking lights and control panels. I can remember > shutting off the computer room lights and watching the show... Me too! One could tell a lot about how well the system was operating (or _not_ operating) by watching the light show. [1] There _were_ single-user applications that ran. These were mostly the CE's diagnostics. However, there were also a couple of very specialized "stand alone" programs that existed, including a program that made use of the audio speaker on the 1108 console to turn the multi-million dollar mainframe into a Morse Code practive oscillator! (See http://fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/morse.html) -- John G Dobnick "Knowing how things work is the basis Information & Media Technologies for appreciation, and is thus a University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee source of civilized delight." jgd@uwm.edu ATTnet: (414) 229-5727 -- William Safire ###### From: Ian Stirling Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:39:08 GMT Message-ID: <940455548.29524.0.nnrp-07.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <380DC3C2.79309D33@iedu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 940455548 nnrp-07:29524 NO-IDENT mauve.demon.co.uk:158.152.209.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980818 ("Laura") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.5 (i586)) Originator: root@mauve.demon.co.uk Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mauve.demon.co.uk!root Morris Dovey wrote: >The IBM 1130 had a set of 16 "data switches" on the operator's console. >Physical switches only made sense on single-user systems. Imagine the >nightmare of multiple concurrently executing processes all attempting to >get control inputs from a single set of switches! All you need is for it to ring a bell, on process change, then the operator could flip the switches, and hit go. -- http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ | Cheap electronics/PC bits for sale. -------------------------------------+-----------------------------Ian-Stirling. Among a mans many good possessions, A good command of speech has no equal. ###### From: jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 21 Oct 1999 12:40:35 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 16 Message-ID: <7un1k3$srm$1@top.mitre.org> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <380DC3C2.79309D33@iedu.org> Reply-To: jcmorris@linus.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 940509635 29558 128.29.251.13 (21 Oct 1999 12:40:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Oct 1999 12:40:35 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!naxos.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newshub.bart.net!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!newsfeed.icl.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!News.Dal.Ca!usenet.logical.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG!jcmorris Morris Dovey writes: >The IBM 1130 had a set of 16 "data switches" on the operator's console. >Physical switches only made sense on single-user systems. Imagine the >nightmare of multiple concurrently executing processes all attempting to >get control inputs from a single set of switches! Not necessarily; the only requirement is that their use be restricted to a single function at a time. In the case I cited elsewhere in this thread, we used the console address and data switches on our S/360 to control the dedicated spooling task; the switches weren't available to jobs running in the background (if for no other reason than the need to use the supervisor-mode Diagnose instruction). Joe Morris ###### From: Nunya@Business.net (Dave) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 21 Oct 1999 15:07:27 -0500 Organization: Disorganization, Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <3GUO3.1$4i2.244@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com> <380CF472.4E38D523@netscape.net> X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!feed2.nntp.acc.ca!feed.nntp.acc.ca!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail In article <380CF472.4E38D523@netscape.net>, Brian Boutel wrote: > Charles Goodman wrote: > > > > Honeywell 200 series, 1975, physical switches, no console, o/s Mod1-MSR > > Go back 10 years: > Honeywell 200, 1965, physical switches, no console, no o/s > Honeywell 1200 (still 200-series), 1968, physical switches, tty console, > still no o/s > Did that IBM1401 near-clone really survive to the mid '70s? Well, I was using an H-200 in 1973/74. Twas the machine I learned COBOL on. Still have my official Honeywell flowcharting template! Had 4 sense switches, as I recall. God I feel old! Dave ###### Message-ID: <380FA46D.E88FC82C@aldon.com> From: Douglas Weber X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <3GUO3.1$4i2.244@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com> <380CF472.4E38D523@netscape.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:40:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: aldongw.aldon.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:40:28 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!naxos.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.idt.net!newsin.iconnet.net!IConNet!not-for-mail Actually the AS/400 still has the concept of sense switches from the System/3 days. Parameter on SBMJOB is SWS which is: Job switches (SWS) - Help Specifies the first settings for a group of eight job switches used with this job. These switches can be set or tested in a CL program and used to control the flow of the program. Only 0's (off) and 1's (on) can be specified in the 8-digit character string. These can be from the job description or set on the submit. Dave wrote: > In article <380CF472.4E38D523@netscape.net>, Brian Boutel > wrote: > > > Charles Goodman wrote: > > > > > > Honeywell 200 series, 1975, physical switches, no console, o/s Mod1-MSR > > > > Go back 10 years: > > Honeywell 200, 1965, physical switches, no console, no o/s > > Honeywell 1200 (still 200-series), 1968, physical switches, tty console, > > still no o/s > > Did that IBM1401 near-clone really survive to the mid '70s? > > Well, I was using an H-200 in 1973/74. Twas the machine I learned COBOL > on. Still have my official Honeywell flowcharting template! > > Had 4 sense switches, as I recall. God I feel old! > > Dave ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:11:35 -0400 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 33 Message-ID: <3811DE37.95F6DD7C@prescienttech.com> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UpOXMPhzSgtIoBsSN1//u35RpRlbE3eUmzmFp8jkUQc= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Oct 1999 16:11:39 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Lee Courtney wrote: > > Hi all, > > A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production > machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? That depends on what you mean by "sense switch". Any computer with a front panel had the ability to read those switches into an accumulator, but doing so destroyed the original contents of the AC. The other possibility for "sense switches" is to have an instruction read the switches and skip/jump if a specific one was set (preserving ACs). The last one I, personally, know of that had the latter type, was the PDP-12. When running in LINC mode, the "SNS N" instruction skipped the next instruction if sense switch "N" was on (this was optionally invertable). This machine is vintage 1969. Machines with front panels (including some of the ones with "calculator-style" ones) were being produced into the '80s. Machines in that class include pdp11s, Novas, Pr1mes, and more. -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com +---------------------+ | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ ###### From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 23 Oct 1999 20:00:05 +0100 Organization: P850 User Group Message-ID: <7ut0jl$lm@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <3811DE37.95F6DD7C@prescienttech.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 940714392 nnrp-11:23335 NO-IDENT p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!p850ug1.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@prescienttech.com) wrote: : Any computer with a front panel had the ability to read those : switches into an accumulator, but doing so destroyed the original : contents of the AC. Does it? How on earth do you do that on a Philips P850? That machine has a full front panel (well, one version of it does). You can edit memory and CPU registers from the panel when the CPU is halted. But I can't find a way to read the switches from a running program. And yes I have Read all The Fine Manuals.. -tony ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:35:38 -0400 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 29 Message-ID: <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <3811DE37.95F6DD7C@prescienttech.com> <7ut0jl$lm@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: oJdqK03eOC3DTbvScnGdocUwHyO6m1nBDAW/2a3X/3Y= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Oct 1999 22:35:40 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!howland.erols.net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Tony Duell wrote: > > Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@prescienttech.com) wrote: > : Any computer with a front panel had the ability to read those > : switches into an accumulator [...] > > Does it? How on earth do you do that on a Philips P850? Allow me to rephrase that: "Most computers with front panels...". > That machine has a full front panel (well, one version of it does). > You can edit memory and CPU registers from the panel when the CPU is > halted. But I can't find a way to read the switches from a running > program. And yes I have Read all The Fine Manuals.. It seems odd that once the machine is in execution, the panel merely becomes a light box, but I suppose there's a reason for it.... (There _has_ to be a data-path connecting the switches to _something_ in there.) Or is the "panel" really an autonomous I/O device? That said, all the ones I've ever seen could load the switches. -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com +---------------------+ | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ ###### From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 25 Oct 1999 02:23:15 +0100 Organization: P850 User Group Message-ID: <7v0be3$1hc@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <3811DE37.95F6DD7C@prescienttech.com> <7ut0jl$lm@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 940816795 nnrp-07:15711 NO-IDENT p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!news-x.support.nl!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!p850ug1.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@prescienttech.com) wrote: : > : Any computer with a front panel had the ability to read those : > : switches into an accumulator [...] : > : > Does it? How on earth do you do that on a Philips P850? : Allow me to rephrase that: "Most computers with front panels...". : > That machine has a full front panel (well, one version of it does). : > You can edit memory and CPU registers from the panel when the CPU is : > halted. But I can't find a way to read the switches from a running : > program. And yes I have Read all The Fine Manuals.. : It seems odd that once the machine is in execution, the panel merely : becomes a light box, but I suppose there's a reason for it.... (There : _has_ to be a data-path connecting the switches to _something_ in : there.) Or is the "panel" really an autonomous I/O device? It's strange... I've just looked in the service manual, and the frontpanel switches are gated onto one of the ALU inputs during the manual load cycles. With a little extra logic, they could have implemented an instruction to gate them into the ALU under program control (which is what's needed, of course), but they didn't. The P850 control logic is a little odd as well. Basically, there are a number of different cycle types (manual load, display (to frontpanel lights), execute, indexed, etc) [and since it's only got an 8 bit ALU, most cycles come in pairs for the high and low halves of the 16 bit word]. There's a D-type flip-flop for each cycle, only one of which is set at a time, And a lot of random logic to cause the cycles to follow each other in the right order. [This is actually an oversimpification. A cycle is made up of 8 t-states (clock pulses). And under some circumstances, the first 4 t-states are in one type of cycle and the second 4 in a different one. Some instructions that appear to take 5 cycles will execute in 32 t-states.] And basically, the manual load cycles (which are the ones that read the panel switches -- the switches go into gates that are enables by the appropriate D-type) can only occur when the CPU is halted (i.e. the manual load cycles can never come in the middle of a string of execute/fetch/index/indirect/etc cycles). : That said, all the ones I've ever seen could load the switches. Well, the P850 (I don't know about other P800s) is the only one I know that can't do this :-) -tony ###### From: Mark Harrision Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <3GUO3.1$4i2.244@news1.rdc1.mb.home.com> <380CF472.4E38D523@netscape.net> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990216 ("Styrofoam") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.5-15 (i686)) Message-ID: Lines: 18 X-Trace: /wLwTajgf7v8uRm+vA9TBvRhfhdmiMlTisquOTYyNyQmelC3v/p5EKQgHeqJhbxYcEeGkYgBvl6b!YhimGOgun90llzZVpohl5+tcnrRJJl8ZKHZecdj2BgcG7zIW3CEg54spPihf6b1hPO2b X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:39:18 GMT Distribution: world Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:39:18 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Brian Boutel wrote: > Did that IBM1401 near-clone really survive to the mid '70s? I think so. My old boss at Applied Data Research (Rick Cline) programmed 1401's for many years, and kept in touch with a few old hand. In 1985, he told me there were probably "at least 10" 1401's still operating in Dallas as printer controller. People would spool off a print job onto tape, and print from the 1401. He also told me that a lot were scrapped to retrieve the gold in them. -- Mark Harrison markh@usai.asiainfo.com AsiaInfo Computer Networks http://www.markharrison.net Beijing / Santa Clara http://usai.asiainfo.com:8080 ###### From: mlevine@ridgecrest.ca.us (Michael N. LeVine) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:24:59 -0700 Organization: RidgeNet Lines: 56 Message-ID: References: <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm144.ridgenet.net X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!delphi.ridgenet.net!mlevine In article <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu>, jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu wrote: > From article <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com>, by "Carl R. Friend" : > > Tony Duell wrote: > >> > >> Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@prescienttech.com) wrote: > >> : Any computer with a front panel had the ability to read those > >> : switches into an accumulator [...] > >> > >> Does it? How on earth do you do that on a Philips P850? > > > > Allow me to rephrase that: "Most computers with front panels...". > > Perhaps this should be restricted to "Most *mini-computers* ... " > > None of the mainframes I am familiar with (including, but not limited > to, UNIVAC 1100 series, Unisys 2200 series, Burroughs B5500, CDC > , IBM S/360, ...) even _had_ instrcutions to read the > "front panel". [1] > > _Some_ of these machines had instructions to "sense" the state of > panel switches. Specifically, the UNIVAC 1100's (and followon Unisys > 2200's) had a "Jump Keys" instruction what would jump (or not jump) > depending upon the state of _one_ of the 15 console switches. (Switch > ON, jump; switch OFF, drop through to next instruction.) > > There was _no_ means to "read those switches into the accumulator". > [2] (Besides, you'd have to specify _which_ accumulator! The 1100 > has 16 of them. Well, 32 -- half for Exec mode, half for user > mode.) If you want to know the state of all 15 switches (numbered > 1 to 15), you need 15 instructions. (There was also a "switch 0", but > it was always "on".) > > ... > JK 13,initdir . Initialize MFD > . normal -- recover files > JK 9,initqueues . initialize backlog and print queues > . nornal -- recover previous work > ... > > <<>> > -- > John G Dobnick "Knowing how things work is the basis > Information & Media Technologies for appreciation, and is thus a > University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee source of civilized delight." > jgd@uwm.edu ATTnet: (414) 229-5727 -- William Safire Didn't the Univac O/S Run command or maybe it was the JOB card have an option to set pseudo switches. So when the program did a sense switch, it tested the pseudo switch register forthat job ????? -- Michael LeVine - mlevine@ridgecrest.ca.us "Thirty days hath September, April, June and November. All the rest have thirty one except for Gypsy Rose Lee and every one knew what she had" - Mel Blanc @@@@@@ From: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 31 Oct 1999 00:04:03 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 66 Message-ID: <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu> References: <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> Reply-To: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.169.203 Originator: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!uwm.edu!alpha3.csd.uwm.edu!jgd From article <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com>, by "Carl R. Friend" : > Tony Duell wrote: >> >> Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@prescienttech.com) wrote: >> : Any computer with a front panel had the ability to read those >> : switches into an accumulator [...] >> >> Does it? How on earth do you do that on a Philips P850? > > Allow me to rephrase that: "Most computers with front panels...". Perhaps this should be restricted to "Most *mini-computers* ... " None of the mainframes I am familiar with (including, but not limited to, UNIVAC 1100 series, Unisys 2200 series, Burroughs B5500, CDC , IBM S/360, ...) even _had_ instrcutions to read the "front panel". [1] _Some_ of these machines had instructions to "sense" the state of panel switches. Specifically, the UNIVAC 1100's (and followon Unisys 2200's) had a "Jump Keys" instruction what would jump (or not jump) depending upon the state of _one_ of the 15 console switches. (Switch ON, jump; switch OFF, drop through to next instruction.) There was _no_ means to "read those switches into the accumulator". [2] (Besides, you'd have to specify _which_ accumulator! The 1100 has 16 of them. Well, 32 -- half for Exec mode, half for user mode.) If you want to know the state of all 15 switches (numbered 1 to 15), you need 15 instructions. (There was also a "switch 0", but it was always "on".) ... JK 13,initdir . Initialize MFD . normal -- recover files JK 9,initqueues . initialize backlog and print queues . nornal -- recover previous work ... [1] Someone wrote that they modified a S/360 to do this (by modifying the DIAG (diagnose) instruction microcode), but "re-wiring" the computer is considered cheating. [2] Under _program_ control, that is. One _could_ read panel indicators into memory (or registers) from the maintenance panel [3], but that only worked is the machine was stopped. It also required one to manually insert a store (or load, depending upon just what you wanted to do) instruction into the instruction decode" register, manually input the data in one of the appropriate internal (and generally NOT program addressable) registers, and then cycle the machine in single-step mode to do the transfer. (One also needed to remember to disable most of the normal instruction fetch circuitry to the machine did not do its normal thing of incrementing the program address, fetching the next instruction, etc.) [3] The big panel of "blinkey lights" that _real_ computers used to have. One could do "magic" things from there. :-) Computers without the "blinky lights" are less fun. :-( -- John G Dobnick "Knowing how things work is the basis Information & Media Technologies for appreciation, and is thus a University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee source of civilized delight." jgd@uwm.edu ATTnet: (414) 229-5727 -- William Safire ###### From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 31 Oct 1999 06:04:32 GMT Organization: Daedalus Consulting Lines: 31 Message-ID: <941389360.379133@shelley.paradise.net.nz> References: <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: shelley.paradise.net.nz X-Trace: titan.xtra.co.nz 941349872 10672253 203.96.152.26 (31 Oct 1999 06:04:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Oct 1999 06:04:32 GMT Cache-Post-Path: shelley.paradise.net.nz!unknown@203-96-144-16.cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3b4 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!news.netgate.net.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!don In article <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu>, John G Dobnick wrote: >From article <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com>, by "Carl R. Friend" : >> Tony Duell wrote: >>> Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@prescienttech.com) wrote: >>> : Any computer with a front panel had the ability to read those >>> : switches into an accumulator [...] > Perhaps this should be restricted to "Most *mini-computers* ... " > > None of the mainframes I am familiar with (including, but not limited > to, UNIVAC 1100 series, Unisys 2200 series, Burroughs B5500, CDC > , IBM S/360, ...) even _had_ instrcutions to read the > "front panel". [1] Well, the pdp11 doesn't have an instruction to read the front panel either. The instruction set has no knowledge of such a beast. What it *does* do (on pdp11s with front panels) is map the switches to a switch register which appears in I/O space, which you can then read. As far as the instruction set is concerned, it's just another memeory address. This always seemed to me the obvious way to implement sense switches, at least on machines with memory mapped I/O. Just map the switches somewhere the program can get it and let it worry about how it should interpret the resulting data. Cluttering up the instruction set with special I/O ops always seemed to me to be sub-obtimal. >Computers without the "blinky lights" are less fun. :-( -- don ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:34:43 -0500 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 51 Message-ID: <381C5383.1D346558@prescienttech.com> References: <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 2c0zPxQD+S/jtqcJu+QGhZc9kgWnMmszmTvAC22IZR0= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Oct 1999 14:34:45 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!howland.erols.net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail John G Dobnick wrote: > > From article <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com>, by "Carl R. Friend" : > > Tony Duell wrote: > >> > >> Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@prescienttech.com) wrote: > >> : Any computer with a front panel had the ability to read those > >> : switches into an accumulator [...] > >> > >> Does it? How on earth do you do that on a Philips P850? > > > > Allow me to rephrase that: "Most computers with front panels...". > > Perhaps this should be restricted to "Most *mini-computers* ... " My mini-computer-centrism bites me in the hind region again.... I accept the restriction. :-) > _Some_ of these [mainframes] had instructions to "sense" the state > of panel switches. Specifically, the UNIVAC 1100's (and followon > Unisys 2200's) had a "Jump Keys" instruction what would jump (or > not jump) depending upon the state of _one_ of the 15 console > switches. (Switch ON, jump; switch OFF, drop through to next > instruction.) This is what I tend to consider a "sense switch"; I'm not sure what others think of it, or whether there even _is_ a definition of the term. Actually, the "sense switch" (in the above context) makes more sense than a "stash the AC, load the AC with the switch register, mask off a bit, jump depending on the state of that bit, and restore the AC" sequence. In any event, in actual practise, the capability to either load the AC with the SR or skip/jump on a switch was mainly useful for diagnosis and troubleshooting, not in normal operation. Once the machine is booted, most of the operator dialogue goes through the TTY or somesuch device, not the front panel. > Computers without the "blinky lights" are less fun. :-( Agreed. -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com +---------------------+ | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ ###### From: "Lee Courtney" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:30:30 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <3811DE37.95F6DD7C@prescienttech.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Carl R. Friend wrote in message news:3811DE37.95F6DD7C@prescienttech.com... > Lee Courtney wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production > > machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? > > That depends on what you mean by "sense switch". > My original question concerned sense switches which affected FORTRAN (II?) program execution via the IF/GOTO (I can't remember which 'read' the sense switch) statements. The questions was prompted by the 4 sense switches on the front panel of the IBM 1620 being restored (http://www.computerhistory.org/old/Journal/) at the Computer Museum History Center (www.computerhistory.org). Another reader of this thread has stated that he knows of no mainframe that had front panel switches which could be read by a program. The SDS/XDS Sigma 5,6,7, and 9 systems all had 4 front panel sense switches. I suspect that by the time the System/360 was introduced and multiprocessing was becoming the rule on large systems, the need for and utility of altering a program's execution path via the setting of physical switches was becoming obsolete. Thanks for all the great info! Lee Courtney ###### From: andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 31 Oct 1999 17:36:52 GMT Organization: home Message-ID: <7vhunk$f3@cucumber.demon.co.uk> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber X-NNTP-Posting-Host: cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 941394750 nnrp-07:23086 NO-IDENT cucumber.demon.co.uk:158.152.58.86 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.6 Lines: 38 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!cucumber.demon.co.uk!usenet In article , "Lee Courtney" writes: >Hi all, > >A quick computer history question. Anyone know the last production >machine(s) to incorporate front panel/console sense switches? I know the IBM >1620 and XDS Sigma 7 had sense switches on the front panel to control >program execution. Did any models of the System/360 incorporate sense >switches? GEC 4080 series mini-computers (started around 1972) had a set of toggle switches on the front panel which could be read with RK (Read Keys) instruction, and HRK (Halt Read Keys) which halted the processor first, allowing the operator to change the keys before going the processor. HRK was a privileged instruction. GEC 4080/4082/4085 were sold up to about 1982. After that, the front panel operations all moved to the system console serial port. However, one of the machine ranges, GEC 4060/ 4065/4160/4162 could still have a front panel fitted as a customer option, in which case you could use either the system console serial port or the fron panel to set the Keys value. This front panel also had a 16 character hexadecimal (plus space/blank) display which could be written to. I modified the time-of-day software to write the time on it, and there were a variety of words and phrases which people worked out over the years requiring only A-F,I,O,S which popped up occasionally when people felt like playing. These were sold until probably around 1987, although few of them had the front panel option fitted. I still have one with a front panel, and the machine is in full working order. -- Andrew Gabriel Consultant Software Engineer ###### From: jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 1 Nov 1999 00:14:23 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 29 Message-ID: <7vim0v$rem$1@top.mitre.org> References: <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu> Reply-To: jcmorris@linus.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 941415263 28118 128.29.251.13 (1 Nov 1999 00:14:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Nov 1999 00:14:23 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG!jcmorris jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) writes: > None of the mainframes I am familiar with (including, but not limited > to, UNIVAC 1100 series, Unisys 2200 series, Burroughs B5500, CDC > , IBM S/360, ...) even _had_ instrcutions to read the > "front panel". [1] [snip] > [1] Someone wrote that they modified a S/360 to do this (by > modifying the DIAG (diagnose) instruction microcode), but > "re-wiring" the computer is considered cheating. That was me. The DIAG instruction is the one published opcode that is by definition model-specific, but (on the microcoded S/360 machines) it essentially forces a branch to a specific microcode address. Your note suggests that you're seeing it as installing new, user-written microcode; to the contrary, it merely runs read-switch instructions that aren't normally documented where the end user can see them. For the S/360 model 40, DIAG X'143' and DIAG X'145' were the calls to read the data and addrss switches (I don't recall which was which). The three microcode words at X'143', X'144', and X'145' existed for the sole purpose of reading the console address and data switches. I would agree that dumping user-written microcode into the system would be cheating (and dangerous, too). Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 1 Nov 1999 00:16:24 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 9 Message-ID: <7vim4o$reo$1@top.mitre.org> References: <8E62E7E42Republic.Pictures.Lt@209.47.93.95> <3811DE37.95F6DD7C@prescienttech.com> Reply-To: jcmorris@linus.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 941415384 28120 128.29.251.13 (1 Nov 1999 00:16:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Nov 1999 00:16:24 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG!jcmorris "Lee Courtney" writes: >My original question concerned sense switches which affected FORTRAN (II?) >program execution via the IF/GOTO (I can't remember which 'read' the sense >switch) statements. IF (SENSE SWITCH x) stnum1, stnum2 Joe Morris ###### From: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 1 Nov 1999 01:55:13 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 25 Message-ID: <7viru1$970$1@uwm.edu> References: Reply-To: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.203 Originator: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeeds.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!uwm.edu!alpha3.csd.uwm.edu!jgd From article , by mlevine@ridgecrest.ca.us (Michael N. LeVine): > > Didn't the Univac O/S Run command or maybe it was the JOB card have > an option to set pseudo switches. So when the program did a sense switch, > it tested the pseudo switch register forthat job ????? Not Exec-8 (and its successors OS/1100 and OS/2200). I'm not familiar with previous systems (such as Exec-II on the UNIVAC 1107). Exec-8 did have a "run condition word", and parts of it were settable and testable from the ECL (Exec Control Language; analogous to IBM's JCL, only better :-) ). This made it possible to program runstreams ("jobs") that could act on differing conditions. I suppose on could consider the user settable portion of the run control word to be a set of "virtual sense switches". -- John G Dobnick "Knowing how things work is the basis Information & Media Technologies for appreciation, and is thus a University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee source of civilized delight." jgd@uwm.edu ATTnet: (414) 229-5727 -- William Safire ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: Mon, 01 Nov 99 10:21:49 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 52 Message-ID: <7vjtvh$a3u$5@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu> <381C5383.1D346558@prescienttech.com> X-Trace: MXNwdCX4FHTf7sxq/lLwk9FLNCvYcO7LtgPBdcskFO8= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Nov 1999 11:36:17 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!d3 In article <381C5383.1D346558@prescienttech.com>, "Carl R. Friend" wrote: >John G Dobnick wrote: >> >> From article <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com>, by "Carl R. Friend" : >> > Tony Duell wrote: >> >> >> >> Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@prescienttech.com) wrote: >> >> : Any computer with a front panel had the ability to read those >> >> : switches into an accumulator [...] >> >> >> >> Does it? How on earth do you do that on a Philips P850? >> > >> > Allow me to rephrase that: "Most computers with front panels...". >> >> Perhaps this should be restricted to "Most *mini-computers* ... " > > My mini-computer-centrism bites me in the hind region >again.... I accept the restriction. :-) > >> _Some_ of these [mainframes] had instructions to "sense" the state >> of panel switches. Specifically, the UNIVAC 1100's (and followon >> Unisys 2200's) had a "Jump Keys" instruction what would jump (or >> not jump) depending upon the state of _one_ of the 15 console >> switches. (Switch ON, jump; switch OFF, drop through to next >> instruction.) > > This is what I tend to consider a "sense switch"; I'm not sure >what others think of it, or whether there even _is_ a definition of >the term. > > Actually, the "sense switch" (in the above context) makes more >sense than a "stash the AC, load the AC with the switch register, mask >off a bit, jump depending on the state of that bit, and restore the >AC" sequence. > > In any event, in actual practise, the capability to either load >the AC with the SR or skip/jump on a switch was mainly useful for >diagnosis and troubleshooting, not in normal operation. Once the >machine is booted, most of the operator dialogue goes through the >TTY or somesuch device, not the front panel. > >> Computers without the "blinky lights" are less fun. :-( > > Agreed. > TOPS10 had a LIGHTS UUO. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Retired JARGON.TXT entries Date: 01 Nov 1999 23:57:24 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 71 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uaeox7rcb.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <381D7645.741280A6@trailing-edge.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Tim Shoppa writes: > > I ran across a twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT, which > contains several entries that I haven't seen in years. Could you diff it (or send me a copy to diff) vs the one I have at: http://neil.franklin.ch/Jargon_File/jarg1.txt It it differs and is older I would like a copy. For "hysterical raisins" (it is in Jargon, what that means). > Many of the entries which have disappeared are rather lesser-known > PDP-10 or ITS-isms. For example, the 1981 JARGON.TXT includes a > reference to > > Other entries that have disappeared are "old hardware specific" and > probably don't mean much today, especially as the word has been > used to denote other specific products since then. For example: > > Other terms that have disappeared are intimately related to > ARPANET and the origins of the Internet, especially on its PDP-10-based > hosts: > > Other terms that have disappeared are related to the lost art of > macro assembly programming: > > And some personal details, important to the original maintainers > but perhaps not so relevant to the hacker community at large, have > been trimmed down in the "modern" versions: > > Some of the terms that have been removed from recent versions have > found their way into "mainstream" slang, and passed out of use even > there: > > Some entries have obviously been modified to the past tense, though > they were obviously present tense in the 1981 version: > > Overall, very few entries seem to have disappeared from this almost- > twenty-year-old version of JARGON.TXT. Many a "good" reason. All lose information, which may one day be usefull (see the manifesto thread). Just look at this example: UUO (you-you-oh) [short for "Un-Used Operation"] n. A DEC-10 system And in: From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Message-ID: <7vjtvh$a3u$5@autumn.news.rcn.net> TOPS10 had a LIGHTS UUO. Without you mentioning that lost entry I would have not understood that post of BAH. Thankfully the old Jargon helped, the new "improved" one would have failled. > And, of course, the modern > versions are *much* more voluminous. So voluminous, they have to save 0.1% space by ditching a few entries. Disk space is so utterly expensive these days... :-) -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: alderson@netcom2.netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 03 Nov 1999 00:43:41 GMT Organization: NETCOM On-line services Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu> <381C5383.1D346558@prescienttech.com> <7vjtvh$a3u$5@autumn.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: alderson@netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.b7.09.66 X-Server-Date: 3 Nov 1999 00:43:42 GMT In-reply-to: jmfbahciv@aol.com's message of Mon, 01 Nov 99 10:21:49 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!nntp.ix.netcom.com!alderson In article <7vjtvh$a3u$5@autumn.news.rcn.net> jmfbahciv@aol.com writes: > TOPS10 had a LIGHTS UUO. TENEX, and the Stanford version of Tops-20, had a LITES% JSYS. (JSYS names had to be 5 characters or fewer in length, because they could end in %--though only the later ones *required* a % in the name.)* On the KL10, there are no (PDP-10-related) blinking lights, so it was only good for testing whether the user was an enabled WHEEL or not (WHOPR or not?)--much faster than RPCAP% followed by appropriate TXNx macro. * TOPS-10 UUO names were SIXBIT strings. Rich Alderson Last LOTS Tops-20 Systems Programmer, 1984-1991 Current maintainer, MIT TECO EMACS (v. 170) last name @ XKL dot COM Chief systems administrator, XKL LLC, 1998-now ###### From: alderson@netcom2.netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Date: 03 Nov 1999 00:46:10 GMT Organization: NETCOM On-line services Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu> Reply-To: alderson@netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.b7.09.66 X-Server-Date: 3 Nov 1999 00:46:10 GMT In-reply-to: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu's message of 31 Oct 1999 00:04:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!nntp.ix.netcom.com!alderson In article <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu> jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) writes: > Path: mindspring!news.mindspring.net!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!uwm.edu!alpha3.csd.uwm.edu!jgd > From: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) > Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers > Date: 31 Oct 1999 00:04:03 GMT > Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee > Lines: 66 > References: <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> > Reply-To: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu > NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.169.203 > Originator: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu > Xref: mindspring alt.folklore.computers:229087 > From article <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com>, by "Carl R. Friend" > : >> Tony Duell wrote: >>> >>> Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@prescienttech.com) wrote: >>> : Any computer with a front panel had the ability to read those >>> : switches into an accumulator [...] >>> Does it? How on earth do you do that on a Philips P850? >> Allow me to rephrase that: "Most computers with front panels...". > Perhaps this should be restricted to "Most *mini-computers* ... " > None of the mainframes I am familiar with (including, but not limited > to, UNIVAC 1100 series, Unisys 2200 series, Burroughs B5500, CDC > , IBM S/360, ...) even _had_ instrcutions to read the > "front panel". [1] The IBM 1401 had sense switches, and was clearly a mainframe by the standards of the time... Rich Alderson Last LOTS Tops-20 Systems Programmer, 1984-1991 Current maintainer, MIT TECO EMACS (v. 170) last name @ XKL dot COM Chief systems administrator, XKL LLC, 1998-now ###### From: "Henk Stegeman" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <381389BA.1FB400D0@prescienttech.com> <7vg11j$upv$1@uwm.edu> Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Lines: 8 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 10:11:25 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 134.146.0.18 X-Trace: wwwserv3.shell.nl 941620247 134.146.0.18 (Wed, 03 Nov 1999 10:10:47 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 10:10:47 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed1.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!wwwserv3.shell.nl!not-for-mail The IBM System/3 had the possibility to store the contents of it's 4 Hex switches on the front panel. ###### From: bbreynolds@aol.comskipthis (Bruce B. Reynolds) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sense Switches - Last known implementation Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Nov 1999 05:55:38 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991116005538.16742.00000269@ngol01.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail In article , "Henk Stegeman" writes: >The IBM System/3 had the possibility to store the contents of it's 4 Hex >switches on the >front panel. The IBM Series/1 with the optional programmers console had instructions to read the four nybbles entered on the keypad, and to set the sixteen lights of the console display. The EDX add-on product Communications Facility made use of the SECON (set console lights) by having each one of the many IOCP's use a different bit/light to indicate that it was in either polling or idle mode: a quick glance at the lights would should the health of the communications network. -- Bruce B. Reynolds, Systems Consultant: Founder of Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA; Sweeping Up Behind Data Processing Dinosaurs