From: "Peter Smith" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:18:35 -0700 Lines: 30 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ip171.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com Message-ID: <37f39a67@news.nwlink.com> X-Trace: 30 Sep 1999 10:14:15 -0700, ip171.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com Organization: Northwest Link Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!newsfeed1.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!newsfeed.icl.net!easynet-tele!easynet.net!newspeer1.nac.net!newsfeed.nwlink.com!news.nwlink.com!ip171.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com greg@apple2.com wrote in message ... >In article <37F2E578.518D@kan.org>, >Steven Kan wrote: >>gozer@pop2.intergate.bc.ca (Gordon Mulcaster) wrote: > >>> PROM = Programmable Read Only Memory (think CDR) >>> EPROM = Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory (via UV light) >>> EEPROM = Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory >>> (via special EEPROM eraser) >>> EEEPROM = Easily Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory >>> (via in-line circuitry) >>> Flash = A type of EEEPROM. > >> Are the latter few verging on oxymoronic? > OTPEPROM : One Time Programmable Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory Or in other words: Erasable memory that can't be erased. In a weird way, it makes sense -- it's not PROM because the internals aren't PROM like, their EPROM like. But the chip doesn't have the expensive window, so you can't physically erase them unless you drill through the casing. Peter ###### From: greg@apple2.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,alt.folklore.computers Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Message-ID: References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> Organization: II Infinitum X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: &@UA7$)=n9C7!qu%-5s},3tR@NEy+B>8PW"^,8?A>%."0{J2c1Yr]NKw';5/( J\r@/{UADjCdE~iRnOEOfbre(/1Y=$TS3Wt7B`a4sz,, Steven Kan wrote: >gozer@pop2.intergate.bc.ca (Gordon Mulcaster) wrote: >> PROM = Programmable Read Only Memory (think CDR) >> EPROM = Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory (via UV light) >> EEPROM = Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory >> (via special EEPROM eraser) >> EEEPROM = Easily Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory >> (via in-line circuitry) >> Flash = A type of EEEPROM. > Are the latter few verging on oxymoronic? Perhaps. Their normal mode of use though is still as ROM, with erasure and reprogramming relatively rare. Probably also why flash memory is called flash memory because it is erased and reprogrammed far more frequently than any other use of *ROM. (Maybe EEEEPROM may reach the point where the ROM moniker makes little to no sense. That would be Extremely Easily Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory. :-) We don't call them RAM because they do not require a constant supply of power to maintain their memory. Now, which one was once called "bubble memory", or was that something else? Adding alt.folklore.computers and setting followups there. -- Nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine billion, nine hundred ninety-nine million, nine hundred ninety-nine thousand, one hundred thirty-two bottles of beer. You take one down, pass it around, nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine ###### Message-ID: <37F3A65B.45F6762E@iedu.org> From: Morris Dovey Reply-To: mrdovey@iedu.org Organization: http://www.iedu.org/mrd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.36 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, pt-BR, ru, es MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f39a67@news.nwlink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:05:15 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.108.37.10 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 938714835 207.108.37.10 (Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:07:15 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:07:15 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!do.de.uu.net!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net!not-for-mail Greg... Bubble memory more closely resembles a file device than ROM. The most common variety was a thin saphire wafer with etched pathways. When subjected to a magnetic field, magnetic "domains" formed, and as the field is intensified, the domains shrank to "bubbles" that preferred to "cling" to the etched paths. If a secondary magnetic field was applied in pulses, the bubbles could be "marched" along the paths. Typical configuration was a single major loop with attached subloops and a minimum amount of circuitry to generate new bubbles and to sense the presence/absence of a bubble. What made them interesting was that a permanent "keeper" magnet could be used to provide sufficient flux to make them non-volatile. Neat stuff (and fun to watch under polarized light!) Morris Dovey West Des Moines, Iowa USA mrdovey@iedu.org ###### From: scottw@bmtech.co.uk_DELETE_THIS (Scott Wheeler) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:04:35 GMT Message-ID: <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: bmtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: bmtech.demon.co.uk:158.152.102.124 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 938710890 nnrp-06:13105 NO-IDENT bmtech.demon.co.uk:158.152.102.124 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!bmtech.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:38:45 -0500, greg@apple2.com wrote: >Probably also why flash memory is >called flash memory because it is erased and reprogrammed far more >frequently than any other use of *ROM. My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. Scott -- (please de-mung address if replying by email) ###### From: TheCentralScrutinizer.164@pobox.com () Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: 30 Sep 1999 18:10:55 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> Reply-To: TheCentralScrutinizer.164@pobox.com NNTP-Posting-Host: edison.chisp.net X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.3.2 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!TheCentralScrutinizer.164 On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:04:35 GMT, Scott Wheeler wrote: >On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:38:45 -0500, greg@apple2.com wrote: > >>Probably also why flash memory is >>called flash memory because it is erased and reprogrammed far more >>frequently than any other use of *ROM. > >My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. > Only on the second tuesday of any week. ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:13:46 +0000 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 18 Message-ID: <37F3A85B.5821CCD3@plano.net> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> Reply-To: richmond@plano.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!remarQ73!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Scott Wheeler wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:38:45 -0500, greg@apple2.com wrote: > > >Probably also why flash memory is > >called flash memory because it is erased and reprogrammed far more > >frequently than any other use of *ROM. > > My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. > It only gives off a flash of light when erased if you put 5000 volts across the power pins. Maybe you are thinking of flash-in-the-pan memory. [ROM emoticon here] -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: glass2@glass2.lexington.ibm.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: 30 Sep 1999 19:33:23 GMT Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 35 Message-ID: <7t0du3$4oi$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f39a67@news.nwlink.com> Reply-To: wa4qal@vnet.ibm.net NNTP-Posting-Host: glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!remarQ.com!supernews.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!zur.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!an02.austin.ibm.com!ausnews.austin.ibm.com!not-for-mail In <37f39a67@news.nwlink.com>, "Peter Smith" writes: > >greg@apple2.com wrote in message ... >>In article <37F2E578.518D@kan.org>, >>Steven Kan wrote: >>>gozer@pop2.intergate.bc.ca (Gordon Mulcaster) wrote: >> >>>> PROM = Programmable Read Only Memory (think CDR) >>>> EPROM = Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory (via UV light) >>>> EEPROM = Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory >>>> (via special EEPROM eraser) >>>> EEEPROM = Easily Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory >>>> (via in-line circuitry) >>>> Flash = A type of EEEPROM. >> >>> Are the latter few verging on oxymoronic? >> >OTPEPROM : One Time Programmable Erasable Programmable > Read-Only Memory > > Or in other words: Erasable memory that can't be erased. > In a weird way, it makes sense -- it's not PROM because > the internals aren't PROM like, their EPROM like. But the > chip doesn't have the expensive window, so you can't > physically erase them unless you drill through the casing. > >Peter I seem to remember hearing that some people had some success erasing the One-Time EPROMS with X-rays. Dave P.S. Standard Disclaimer: I work for them, but I don't speak for them. ###### From: skb@xmission.removethis.com (Scott Brown) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 04:57:49 GMT Organization: (none) Lines: 28 Message-ID: <37f43f07.1046827439@news.xmission.com> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc1140.modem.xmission.com X-Trace: news.xmission.com 938753831 11079 166.70.8.124 (1 Oct 1999 04:57:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xmission.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Oct 1999 04:57:11 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!xmission!nnrp.xmission!not-for-mail On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:38:45 -0500, greg@apple2.com wrote: >In article <37F2E578.518D@kan.org>, >Steven Kan wrote: >>gozer@pop2.intergate.bc.ca (Gordon Mulcaster) wrote: > >>> PROM = Programmable Read Only Memory (think CDR) >>> EPROM = Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory (via UV light) >>> EEPROM = Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory >>> (via special EEPROM eraser) >>> EEEPROM = Easily Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory >>> (via in-line circuitry) >>> Flash = A type of EEEPROM. > >> Are the latter few verging on oxymoronic? > >Perhaps. Their normal mode of use though is still as ROM, with erasure >and reprogramming relatively rare. Probably also why flash memory is >called flash memory because it is erased and reprogrammed far more >frequently than any other use of *ROM. (Maybe EEEEPROM may reach the >point where the ROM moniker makes little to no sense. That would be >Extremely Easily Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory. :-) > >We don't call them RAM because they do not require a constant supply of >power to maintain their memory. So where does NVRAM fit into all of this? ###### From: Trent Worthington Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 05:51:28 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 14 Message-ID: <9oP0NxgaAS8yG9vbq97ZUlCNU1bO@4ax.com> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:04:35 GMT, scottw@bmtech.co.uk_DELETE_THIS (Scott Wheeler) wrote: >On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:38:45 -0500, greg@apple2.com wrote: > >>Probably also why flash memory is >>called flash memory because it is erased and reprogrammed far more >>frequently than any other use of *ROM. > >My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. > >Scott No, That is the job of an EPROM with a window when plugged in backwards. ###### From: mkurtti@hiwaay.net (Marvin E. Kurtti) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Message-ID: References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> Organization: mk Computers X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.12 Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.14.147 X-Trace: typ11.nn.bcandid.com 938786421 216.180.14.147 (Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:00:21 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:00:21 EDT Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:00:22 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!gw12.nn.bcandid.com!gate.bCandid.com!typ11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail In article <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1>, scottw@bmtech.co.uk_DELETE_THIS says... > On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:38:45 -0500, greg@apple2.com wrote: > > >Probably also why flash memory is > >called flash memory because it is erased and reprogrammed far more > >frequently than any other use of *ROM. > > My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. > > Scott The first flash memory was an EPROM plugged in backwards. Marv ###### Message-ID: <37F4CE26.41CE2AF1@iedu.org> From: Morris Dovey Reply-To: mrdovey@iedu.org Organization: http://www.iedu.org/mrd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.36 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, pt-BR, ru, es MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:07:18 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.108.37.10 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 938790557 207.108.37.10 (Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:09:17 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:09:17 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net!not-for-mail Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Marvin E. Kurtti wrote: > > > > In article <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1>, > > scottw@bmtech.co.uk_DELETE_THIS says... > > > On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:38:45 -0500, greg@apple2.com wrote: > > > > > > >Probably also why flash memory is > > > >called flash memory because it is erased and reprogrammed far more > > > >frequently than any other use of *ROM. > > > > > > My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. > > > > > > Scott > > > > The first flash memory was an EPROM plugged in > > backwards. > > One of my 1976 BYTE's has a column where it defines > > NED (Noise Emitting Diode): Emits a loud noise when connected > to 1000V (once). > > Tim. As Tim points out, NED is only a short-lived transitional state. Thereafter the device is DED (dark-emitting diode). Morris Dovey West Des Moines, Iowa USA mrdovey@iedu.org ###### From: Tim Shoppa Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:14:26 -0400 Organization: Trailing Edge Technology Lines: 23 Message-ID: <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> NNTP-Posting-Host: timaxp.trailing-edge.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ffx2nh5.news.uu.net 938787291 10188 63.73.218.130 (1 Oct 1999 14:14:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@ffx2nh5.news.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Oct 1999 14:14:51 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.0 DEC 3000 Model 300L) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-xfer.epix.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!ffx2nh5!not-for-mail Marvin E. Kurtti wrote: > > In article <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1>, > scottw@bmtech.co.uk_DELETE_THIS says... > > On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:38:45 -0500, greg@apple2.com wrote: > > > > >Probably also why flash memory is > > >called flash memory because it is erased and reprogrammed far more > > >frequently than any other use of *ROM. > > > > My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. > > > > Scott > > The first flash memory was an EPROM plugged in > backwards. One of my 1976 BYTE's has a column where it defines NED (Noise Emitting Diode): Emits a loud noise when connected to 1000V (once). Tim. ###### From: greg@apple2.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Message-ID: References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> <37f4d66e$4$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> Organization: II Infinitum X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: &@UA7$)=n9C7!qu%-5s},3tR@NEy+B>8PW"^,8?A>%."0{J2c1Yr]NKw';5/( J\r@/{UADjCdE~iRnOEOfbre(/1Y=$TS3Wt7B`a4sz,, jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) wrote: > And I remember seeing (mayhave it buried somewhere in a paper file) a spec > sheet (patterned after real semiconductor sheets) for a WOM (Write-Only > Memory). They occur naturally. They're called black holes. -- Nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine billion, nine hundred ninety-nine million, nine hundred ninety-nine thousand, one hundred twenty-six bottles of beer. You take one down, pass it around, nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine ###### From: greg@apple2.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Message-ID: References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <9oP0NxgaAS8yG9vbq97ZUlCNU1bO@4ax.com> Organization: II Infinitum X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: &@UA7$)=n9C7!qu%-5s},3tR@NEy+B>8PW"^,8?A>%."0{J2c1Yr]NKw';5/( J\r@/{UADjCdE~iRnOEOfbre(/1Y=$TS3Wt7B`a4sz,, Trent Worthington wrote: >scottw@bmtech.co.uk (Scott Wheeler) wrote: >>greg@apple2.com wrote: >>> Probably also why flash memory is >>> called flash memory because it is erased and reprogrammed far more >>> frequently than any other use of *ROM. >> My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. > No, That is the job of an EPROM with a window when plugged in > backwards. It will still work as long as the magic smoke doesn't escape. -- Nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine billion, nine hundred ninety-nine million, nine hundred ninety-nine thousand, one hundred twenty-five bottles of beer. You take one down, pass it around, nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine ###### From: john@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (John "West" McKenna) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: 1 Oct 1999 12:56:16 +0800 Organization: The University of Western Australia Lines: 9 Message-ID: <7t1etg$mbv$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #118 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.uwa.edu.au!not-for-mail "Peter Smith" writes: >OTPEPROM : One Time Programmable Erasable Programmable > Read-Only Memory Except nobody calls it that. It's always either OTPROM, or (much more commonly) just OTP. John West ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> From: jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Message-ID: <37f4d66e$4$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.61 b61 Lines: 22 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 15:42:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.224.125.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@epix.net X-Trace: news1.epix.net 938792561 199.224.125.18 (Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:42:41 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:42:41 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!news-xfer.epix.net!news1.epix.net!not-for-mail In <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com>, on 10/01/99 at 10:14 AM, Tim Shoppa said: >One of my 1976 BYTE's has a column where it defines >NED (Noise Emitting Diode): Emits a loud noise when connected > to 1000V (once). And I remember seeing (mayhave it buried somewhere in a paper file) a spec sheet (patterned after real semiconductor sheets) for a WOM (Write-Only Memory). -- Julian Thomas: jt . epix @ net http://home.epix.net/~jt remove letter a for email (or switch . and @) Boardmember of POSSI.org - Phoenix OS/2 Society, Inc http://www.possi.org In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State! -- -- The floggings will continue until morale improves. ###### From: Dan.Pop@cern.ch (Dan Pop) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: 1 Oct 99 17:57:12 GMT Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ues5.cern.ch X-Trace: sunnews.cern.ch 938801319 22194 (None) 137.138.32.79 X-Complaints-To: news@sunnews.cern.ch X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #18 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!cern.ch!news.cern.ch!danpop In greg@apple2.com writes: >We don't call them RAM because they do not require a constant supply of >power to maintain their memory. O tempora... People no longer know that the most popular form of RAM during the late fifties, the sixties and the seventies did NOT need a constant supply of power to maintain the information. Yeah, ferrite core memory was non-volatile. >Now, which one was once called "bubble memory", or was that something else? It was something else, another form of magnetic memory that was non-volatile and behaved like RAM, although the information was accessed sequentially inside. It wasn't fast enough to be used as main memory, which could explain why it never took off on the market. Dan -- Dan Pop CERN, IT Division Email: Dan.Pop@cern.ch Mail: CERN - IT, Bat. 31 1-014, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: 01 Oct 1999 22:56:48 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 11 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uk8p6er5b.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> <37f4d66e$4$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) writes: > > And I remember seeing (mayhave it buried somewhere in a paper file) a spec > sheet (patterned after real semiconductor sheets) for a WOM (Write-Only > Memory). They are used as hardware accellerators for Unixes /dev/null these days. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### Message-ID: <37F55097.A5985FE6@maqs.net> From: charles X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> <37f4d66e$4$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:23:51 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.145.145.6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 938823832 216.145.145.6 (Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:23:52 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:23:52 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail greg@apple2.com wrote: > > In article <37f4d66e$4$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net>, > jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) wrote: > > > And I remember seeing (mayhave it buried somewhere in a paper file) a spec > > sheet (patterned after real semiconductor sheets) for a WOM (Write-Only > > Memory). > > They occur naturally. They're called black holes. > > -- > Nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine > billion, nine hundred ninety-nine million, nine hundred ninety-nine thousand, > one hundred twenty-six bottles of beer. You take one down, pass it around, nine > quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine Do you decrement that manually or automatically ? Charles ###### From: mww@merant.com (Michael Wojcik) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: 1 Oct 1999 22:06:23 GMT Organization: MERANT Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <7t3b8v$28j1@news1.newsguy.com> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f43f07.1046827439@news.xmission.com> Reply-To: michael.wojcik@merant.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-623.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: xrn 9.00 Originator: mww@lorelei-n Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!mww In article <37f43f07.1046827439@news.xmission.com>, skb@xmission.removethis.com (Scott Brown) writes: > So where does NVRAM fit into all of this? What IBM calls "NVRAM" (at least in the machines I have) is just CMOS RAM with battery backup, so it doesn't need to be connected to mains to keep its data. I don't know if others use that term for other devices. -- Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@merant.com AAI Development, MERANT (block capitals are a company mandate) Department of English, Miami University Shakespeare writes bombast and knows it; Mr Thomas writes bombast and doesn't. That is the difference. -- Geoffrey Johnson ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 03:09:28 -0600 Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: References: <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> <37f4d66e$4$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.138.99 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.138.99 X-Trace: 2 Oct 1999 03:09:29 -0700, 207.148.138.99 Lines: 22 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.50.1.43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.cadvision.com!news.cadvision.com!207.148.138.99 On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 15:42:41 GMT, jata@aepiax.net (Julian Thomas) wrote: >In <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com>, on 10/01/99 > at 10:14 AM, Tim Shoppa said: > >>One of my 1976 BYTE's has a column where it defines > >>NED (Noise Emitting Diode): Emits a loud noise when connected >> to 1000V (once). > >And I remember seeing (mayhave it buried somewhere in a paper file) a spec >sheet (patterned after real semiconductor sheets) for a WOM (Write-Only >Memory). Didn't Teradata do a high capacity line of those? (Whaddaya mean that's a crowded data entry screen -- that's just the key entry panel!) Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian_Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) use address above to reply ###### From: Brian Inglis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 03:09:29 -0600 Organization: Systematic Software Reply-To: Brian.dot.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca Message-ID: <68n1N5+dl+hqtjJS4J0E17APl5TA@4ax.com> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f39a67@news.nwlink.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.138.99 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.138.99 X-Trace: 2 Oct 1999 03:09:30 -0700, 207.148.138.99 Lines: 34 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.50.1.43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.cadvision.com!news.cadvision.com!207.148.138.99 On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:18:35 -0700, "Peter Smith" wrote: > >greg@apple2.com wrote in message ... >>In article <37F2E578.518D@kan.org>, >>Steven Kan wrote: >>>gozer@pop2.intergate.bc.ca (Gordon Mulcaster) wrote: >> >>>> PROM = Programmable Read Only Memory (think CDR) >>>> EPROM = Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory (via UV light) >>>> EEPROM = Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory >>>> (via special EEPROM eraser) >>>> EEEPROM = Easily Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory >>>> (via in-line circuitry) >>>> Flash = A type of EEEPROM. >> >>> Are the latter few verging on oxymoronic? >> >OTPEPROM : One Time Programmable Erasable Programmable > Read-Only Memory [snip facts] Does that mean you programmed all the bits once then erased the ones (groan) you didn't like once you decided which way they should be? >Peter > > > Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada -- Brian_Inglis@CSi.com (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca) use address above to reply ###### From: hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Message-ID: References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> <37f4d66e$4$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> <37F55097.A5985FE6@maqs.net> Organization: ErsteSoft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.1 Lines: 12 Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:45:20 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.103.86.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@swbell.net X-Trace: typhoon01.swbell.net 938879044 216.103.86.8 (Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:44:04 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:44:04 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!cyclone.swbell.net!typhoon01.swbell.net.POSTED!not-for-mail greg@apple2.com wrote: > > Nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine > billion, nine hundred ninety-nine million, nine hundred ninety-nine thousand, > one hundred twenty-six bottles of beer. You take one down, pass it around, nine > quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine 100 buckets of bits on the bus,100 buckets of bits. You take one down and short it to ground. FF buckets of bits on the bus. -Ron Hunsinger ###### From: greg@apple2.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Message-ID: References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> <37f4d66e$4$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> <37F55097.A5985FE6@maqs.net> Organization: II Infinitum X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: &@UA7$)=n9C7!qu%-5s},3tR@NEy+B>8PW"^,8?A>%."0{J2c1Yr]NKw';5/( J\r@/{UADjCdE~iRnOEOfbre(/1Y=$TS3Wt7B`a4sz,, charles wrote: >greg@apple2.com wrote: >> Nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine >> billion, nine hundred ninety-nine million, nine hundred ninety-nine thousand, >> one hundred twenty-six bottles of beer. You take one down, pass it around, >> nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine > Do you decrement that manually or automatically ? Manually. -- Nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine billion, nine hundred ninety-nine million, nine hundred ninety-nine thousand, one hundred twenty-two bottles of beer. You take one down, pass it around, nine quadrillion, nine hundred ninety-nine trillion, nine hundred ninety-nine ###### Sender: lynn@LYNNPC Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> <37f4d66e$4$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> Reply-To: Anne & Lynn Wheeler From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler Message-ID: Organization: Wheeler&Wheeler Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070095 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.95) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 20:42:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.63.28.138 X-Complaints-To: support@adcomsys.net X-Trace: news-west.eli.net 938896923 209.63.28.138 (Sat, 02 Oct 1999 14:42:03 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 14:42:03 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!nuq-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!easynews!news-west.eli.net!not-for-mail i think the WOM may have been done in conjunction with the paper (from Berkeley?) on recursive compression algorithm ... showing that arbritrary number of bytes could be compressed into a single byte ... it went well with what i knew of black holes ... until they published the paper on black holes evaporating. -- -- Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@adcomsys.net, lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ http://www.adcomsys.net/lynn/ ###### From: john@polo.demon.co.uk (John Winters) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: 3 Oct 1999 19:27:14 +0100 Organization: The Linux Emporium Message-ID: <7t8762$nan$1@polo.demon.co.uk> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk:194.70.1.33 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 938975577 nnrp-02:6454 NO-IDENT unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk:194.70.1.33 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!newsfeed2.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!unseen.linuxemporium.co.uk!polo.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail In article , Dan Pop wrote: >In greg@apple2.com writes: > >>We don't call them RAM because they do not require a constant supply of >>power to maintain their memory. > >O tempora... People no longer know that the most popular form of RAM >during the late fifties, the sixties and the seventies did NOT need a >constant supply of power to maintain the information. Yeah, ferrite >core memory was non-volatile. The systems I used to work on had recovery code to handle the power coming back on after a power failure. It was assumed that the machine could carry on with at least some of what it was doing, because all the memory contents would still be there. It just had to remember where it was. John -- John Winters. Wallingford, Oxon, England. The Linux Emporium - a source for Linux CDs in the UK See http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/ ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 20:08:54 -0400 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 33 Message-ID: <37F7F016.DF981345@prescienttech.com> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <7t8762$nan$1@polo.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 91XvaNHCd/O+laH7LatgPit8BqgrvCvHmWSvrtbqlU0= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Oct 1999 00:08:57 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail John Winters wrote: > > The systems I used to work on had recovery code to handle the power > coming back on after a power failure. It was assumed that the machine > could carry on with at least some of what it was doing, because all > the memory contents would still be there. It just had to remember > where it was. This is trivially done, and is the reason why several systems have _two_ powerfail signals on the main bus (e.g. on the pdp11 UNIBUS, there are ACLO and DCLO). Using the UNIBUS as an example, ACLO gets asserted when the AC power falls out of tolerance. Even with NO AC power at all there are still several milliseconds of runtime in the P/S capacitors -- more than enough time to stash the registers into core (save state) and set the power-fail vector to the "power up" code. Once the caps start to drain, DCLO gets asserted and it's "Good night Irene". I used this trick to run a floppy boot routine (which my boot card lacks -- go figure). Load the code into core and power the box off. When I power it up next time, the boot code runs and brings the machine up again. Even easier would be to simply unplug the thing and let the OS do its magic, but for some odd reason the version of RT-11 I have doesn't like that tactic. -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com +---------------------+ | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ ###### From: matt@noggin.thenog.net (Matthew Gates) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 01:07:14 +0100 Organization: RemarQ http://www.remarQ.com Lines: 4 Message-ID: References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <7t8762$nan$1@polo.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.2.137.183 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: 938995905 FA6OEGRHS89B7C302C uk21.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarq.com X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!noggin.thenog.net!nobody Good to see you here John. Long live the linux emporium! -Matthew ###### From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 13:45:12 +0100 Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> <37F4CE26.41CE2AF1@iedu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.19.67.123 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: 939108002 IIX5YQT0T437BD413C uk25.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarq.com X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!naxos.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!127.0.0.1!nobody In article <37F4CE26.41CE2AF1@iedu.org>, Morris Dovey writes: [...] >> > The first flash memory was an EPROM plugged in >> > backwards. >> >> One of my 1976 BYTE's has a column where it defines >> >> NED (Noise Emitting Diode): Emits a loud noise when connected >> to 1000V (once). > > As Tim points out, NED is only a short-lived transitional state. > Thereafter the device is DED (dark-emitting diode). ...also known as a friode. -- +- David Given ---------------McQ-+ | Work: dg@tao-group.com | If a man speaks in a forest, and there is | Play: dgiven@iname.com | no woman to hear him, is he still wrong? +- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ ###### From: Trent Worthington Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:56:27 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <9oP0NxgaAS8yG9vbq97ZUlCNU1bO@4ax.com> <37fcd17a.1637184927@192.168.0.1> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail On Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:32:16 GMT, scottw@bmtech.co.uk_DELETE_THIS (Scott Wheeler) wrote: >On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 05:51:28 -0400, Trent Worthington > wrote: > >>>My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. >>> >>No, That is the job of an EPROM with a window when plugged in >>backwards. > >M'lud, I submit that the the defendant is approaching violation of the >second law of thermodynamics! > No, really! they glow (for about 2-4 seconds) when installed backwards. The bonding wires get overloaded due to the high current, and the glow can be seen through a paper sticker. ###### From: scottw@bmtech.co.uk_DELETE_THIS (Scott Wheeler) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:10:06 GMT Message-ID: <37fbd115.1637083331@192.168.0.1> References: <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bmtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: bmtech.demon.co.uk:158.152.102.124 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 939053211 nnrp-13:22819 NO-IDENT bmtech.demon.co.uk:158.152.102.124 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!bmtech.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:14:26 -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: >NED (Noise Emitting Diode): Emits a loud noise when connected > to 1000V (once). Light Emitting Resistor was my favourite. Scott (Scourge of Darlington drivers) -- (please de-mung address if replying by email) ###### From: scottw@bmtech.co.uk_DELETE_THIS (Scott Wheeler) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:32:16 GMT Message-ID: <37fcd17a.1637184927@192.168.0.1> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <9oP0NxgaAS8yG9vbq97ZUlCNU1bO@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bmtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: bmtech.demon.co.uk:158.152.102.124 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 939054540 nnrp-10:21871 NO-IDENT bmtech.demon.co.uk:158.152.102.124 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!bmtech.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 05:51:28 -0400, Trent Worthington wrote: >>My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. >> >No, That is the job of an EPROM with a window when plugged in >backwards. M'lud, I submit that the the defendant is approaching violation of the second law of thermodynamics! Even so, I did read "somewhere" about the light emitted on erasure - can't find it on the Web, though. Scott -- (please de-mung address if replying by email) ###### From: scottw@bmtech.co.uk_DELETE_THIS (Scott Wheeler) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:57:53 GMT Message-ID: <37fad492.1703512621@192.168.0.1> References: <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <9oP0NxgaAS8yG9vbq97ZUlCNU1bO@4ax.com> <37fcd17a.1637184927@192.168.0.1> NNTP-Posting-Host: bmtech.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: bmtech.demon.co.uk:158.152.102.124 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 939120876 nnrp-03:17640 NO-IDENT bmtech.demon.co.uk:158.152.102.124 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!netnews.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!bmtech.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail On Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:56:27 -0400, Trent Worthington wrote: >>>>My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. >>>> >>>No, That is the job of an EPROM with a window when plugged in >>>backwards. >> >>M'lud, I submit that the the defendant is approaching violation of the >>second law of thermodynamics! >> >No, really! they glow (for about 2-4 seconds) when installed >backwards. The bonding wires get overloaded due to the high current, >and the glow can be seen through a paper sticker. I believe you! I was just joking about getting the information back out of an EPROM and the nature of entropy. Scott -- (please de-mung address if replying by email) ###### From: lingman@wcars05r.ca.nortel.com (Danny Lingman) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: 12 Oct 1999 19:36:28 GMT Organization: Northern Telecom Lines: 26 Message-ID: <7u02js$3lh$2@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com> References: <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <37F48982.668BA1F7@trailing-edge.com> <37fbd115.1637083331@192.168.0.1> <37F97712.B2B0024A@egg.chips.and.spam.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: wcars05r.ca.nortel.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!torn!qcarh002.nortelnetworks.com!bcarh189.ca.nortel.com!bmerhc5e.ca.nortel.com!bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com!wcars05r.ca.nortel.com!lingman In article <37F97712.B2B0024A@egg.chips.and.spam.com>, fungus writes: |> |> |> Scott Wheeler wrote: |> > |> > On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:14:26 -0400, Tim Shoppa |> > wrote: |> > |> > >NED (Noise Emitting Diode): Emits a loud noise when connected |> > > to 1000V (once). |> > |> > Light Emitting Resistor was my favourite. |> > |> |> |> I remember somebody once told me you could erase EPROMS in |> a matter of seconds using a microwave oven. |> |> So I grab an old EPROM to give it a try....blew the thing |> in half in a matter of seconds. Real mess, legs all over |> the place... |> Yes, but was it erased? Dan :-) ###### From: diskette@users.leading.net (STD DIALUP) Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f43f07.1046827439@news.xmission.com> X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 34 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:28:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.98.192.82 X-Trace: news1.atlantic.net 939925738 207.98.192.82 (Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:28:58 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:28:58 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!remarQ.com!supernews.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news-xfer.atlantic.net!news1.atlantic.net!users!diskette If the current trend continues, it won't be long until EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPROM memory is available. I hope that it it less troublesome than "current" technology is. Scott Brown (skb@xmission.removethis.com) wrote: : On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:38:45 -0500, greg@apple2.com wrote: : >In article <37F2E578.518D@kan.org>, : >Steven Kan wrote: : >>gozer@pop2.intergate.bc.ca (Gordon Mulcaster) wrote: : > : >>> PROM = Programmable Read Only Memory (think CDR) : >>> EPROM = Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory (via UV light) : >>> EEPROM = Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory : >>> (via special EEPROM eraser) : >>> EEEPROM = Easily Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory : >>> (via in-line circuitry) : >>> Flash = A type of EEEPROM. : > : >> Are the latter few verging on oxymoronic? : > : >Perhaps. Their normal mode of use though is still as ROM, with erasure : >and reprogramming relatively rare. Probably also why flash memory is : >called flash memory because it is erased and reprogrammed far more : >frequently than any other use of *ROM. (Maybe EEEEPROM may reach the : >point where the ROM moniker makes little to no sense. That would be : >Extremely Easily Electrically Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory. :-) : > : >We don't call them RAM because they do not require a constant supply of : >power to maintain their memory. : So where does NVRAM fit into all of this? ###### Message-ID: <380A018B.8379DCED@davesworld.net> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:04:11 -0500 From: Jordan Bettis X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <9oP0NxgaAS8yG9vbq97ZUlCNU1bO@4ax.com> <37fcd17a.1637184927@192.168.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.139.240.249 X-Trace: 17 Oct 1999 11:58:20 -0500, 205.139.240.249 Lines: 33 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@newsfeeds.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body X-Abuse-Info2: ALL Spam complaints are acted upon within 24 hours! Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 72,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Instant access!! Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!newscore.gigabell.net!news.ndh.net!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.enteract.com!feed.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!spamkiller.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!205.139.240.249 Scott Wheeler wrote: > > On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 05:51:28 -0400, Trent Worthington > wrote: > > >>My understanding is that flash memory gives off light when erased. > >> > >No, That is the job of an EPROM with a window when plugged in > >backwards. [snip] Just an anecdote: I heard an unconfirmed story once about a guy who plugged a EPROM into a DIP socket (which would obviously make the EPROM DIP (BTW, do they make non DIP EPROM?)) backwards. The EPROM 'glowed' red before he realized his error. The EPROM reportedly still worked. However, I find it highly unlikely. First, the plastic would melt off long before the iron or copper became photo lucent, And I think the silicon would do likewise. I tried burning silicon in a Bunsen burner once. the flame (about 1700ºF) melted the silicon in under a second, It took more than six seconds to make iron glow. -- Jordan Bettis BTW: ^Omit the OMIT (Jbettis@davesworld.net) "It being my conviction that any Established Church is an established crime, an established slave pin." -Twain ###### From: ignatios@cs.uni-bonn.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: 18 Oct 1999 09:26:08 GMT Organization: RHRZ - University of Bonn (Germany) Lines: 23 Message-ID: <7uep3g$14os@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <9oP0NxgaAS8yG9vbq97ZUlCNU1bO@4ax.com> <37fcd17a.1637184927@192.168.0.1> <380A018B.8379DCED@davesworld.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cauchy.cs.uni-bonn.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de!usenet In article <380A018B.8379DCED@davesworld.net>, Jordan Bettis writes: > Just an anecdote: > > I heard an unconfirmed story once about a guy who plugged a EPROM into a > DIP socket (which would obviously make the EPROM DIP (BTW, do they make > non DIP EPROM?)) backwards. The EPROM 'glowed' red before he realized > his error. > > The EPROM reportedly still worked. > > However, I find it highly unlikely. First, the plastic would melt off > long before the iron or copper became photo lucent, And I think the > silicon would do likewise. Uhm, wait. EPROMs have windows, so you can look inside. EPROMs have lots of semiconductor material inside, some of which might just function as sort of an LED when plugged in backwards. Regards, -is ###### From: dhansen@btree.com (Dave Hansen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Organization: B-Tree Systems, Inc. Message-ID: <380b33d4.322189483@192.168.2.34> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <9oP0NxgaAS8yG9vbq97ZUlCNU1bO@4ax.com> <37fcd17a.1637184927@192.168.0.1> <380A018B.8379DCED@davesworld.net> <7uep3g$14os@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 45 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:58:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.32.152.113 X-Trace: newsfeed.slurp.net 940258470 209.32.152.113 (Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:54:30 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:54:30 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!nyc.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!newsfeed.slurp.net!not-for-mail On 18 Oct 1999 09:26:08 GMT, ignatios@cs.uni-bonn.de (Ignatios Souvatzis) wrote: >In article <380A018B.8379DCED@davesworld.net>, > Jordan Bettis writes: >> Just an anecdote: >> >> I heard an unconfirmed story once about a guy who plugged a EPROM into a >> DIP socket (which would obviously make the EPROM DIP (BTW, do they make >> non DIP EPROM?)) backwards. The EPROM 'glowed' red before he realized >> his error. >> >> The EPROM reportedly still worked. >> >> However, I find it highly unlikely. First, the plastic would melt off >> long before the iron or copper became photo lucent, And I think the >> silicon would do likewise. > >Uhm, wait. > >EPROMs have windows, so you can look inside. >EPROMs have lots of semiconductor material inside, some of which might just >function as sort of an LED when plugged in backwards. > Back around 1982 I worked on an avionics testing job that required a lot of changing EPROMS containing test software. One member of our team in particular was prone to installing EPROMs upside-down. He commented that "it was nice" of the EPROM manufacturer to provide an LED to indicate that fact when power was applied. It turns out that one of the fine wires (NiChrome?) connecting the chip to the DIP was glowing red-hot. Generally, if you caught this quick enough, the EPROM survived with no obvious problems. However, more than a few seconds would vaporise the wire and thus destroy the EPROM. AFAIK there are no LEDs embedded in any EPROMS. Regards, -=Dave Just my (10-010) cents I can barely speak for myself, so I certainly can't speak for B-Tree. Change is inevitable. Progress is not. ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:47:16 +0000 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 23 Message-ID: <380B5D24.2689C143@plano.net> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <9oP0NxgaAS8yG9vbq97ZUlCNU1bO@4ax.com> <37fcd17a.1637184927@192.168.0.1> <380A018B.8379DCED@davesworld.net> <7uep3g$14os@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> Reply-To: richmond@plano.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.ntr.net!remarQ60!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail > In article <380A018B.8379DCED@davesworld.net>, > Jordan Bettis writes: > > Just an anecdote: > > > > I heard an unconfirmed story once about a guy who plugged a EPROM into a > > DIP socket (which would obviously make the EPROM DIP (BTW, do they make > > non DIP EPROM?)) backwards. The EPROM 'glowed' red before he realized > > his error. > > > > The EPROM reportedly still worked. > > > > However, I find it highly unlikely. First, the plastic would melt off > > long before the iron or copper became photo lucent, And I think the > > silicon would do likewise. > Yes, I am afraid that EPROM's are like the radiation detection badges or the idiot lights on the speedometer of your car. Once they glow ***red***, it is already *too* late!!! -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What is "Firmware" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:47:38 +0000 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 23 Message-ID: <380B5D3A.F3A574F4@plano.net> References: <37EBAB89.2A5C8195@uq.net.au> <37ECEB56.18C4BFD3@uq.net.au> <37EE8F86.FA0C3631@earthlink.net> <37F2E578.518D@kan.org> <37f397f2.1294776470@192.168.0.1> <9oP0NxgaAS8yG9vbq97ZUlCNU1bO@4ax.com> <37fcd17a.1637184927@192.168.0.1> <380A018B.8379DCED@davesworld.net> <7uep3g$14os@news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de> Reply-To: richmond@plano.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.tli.de!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail > In article <380A018B.8379DCED@davesworld.net>, > Jordan Bettis writes: > > Just an anecdote: > > > > I heard an unconfirmed story once about a guy who plugged a EPROM into a > > DIP socket (which would obviously make the EPROM DIP (BTW, do they make > > non DIP EPROM?)) backwards. The EPROM 'glowed' red before he realized > > his error. > > > > The EPROM reportedly still worked. > > > > However, I find it highly unlikely. First, the plastic would melt off > > long before the iron or copper became photo lucent, And I think the > > silicon would do likewise. > Yes, I am afraid that EPROM's are like the radiation detection badges or the idiot lights on the speedometer of your car. Once they glow ***red***, it is already *too* late!!! -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+