From: "Han-Sun Yang" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Question: Power Saving? Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:06:04 -0500 Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Lines: 16 Message-ID: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: rochester-20.slip.uiuc.edu X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!do.de.uu.net!f.de.uu.net!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!not-for-mail Hello, I have a question. I see people always keep computers power on. It may be convenient in a lab. How about at home? Does anybody know how much we can save by turning off a computer 20 hours a day, instead keeping it on all day (in power-saving mode)? My room mate always keeps his computer on and I want to ask him to turn it off to save money. He only uses his desktop computer a couple of hours day. Looking forward to your tips Han-Sun ###### From: hnlute@optcamel.com (Howard N. Lute) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:46:04 -0700 Organization: Optimum Computer Services Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Reply-To: hnlute@optcamel.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ffd-ca6-56.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 07 1:46:52 PM CDT 1999 X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newshub.bart.net!news.tele2.nl!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news In article <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, h-yang4@uiuc.edu says... > Hello, > > I have a question. I see people always keep computers power on. It may be > convenient in a lab. How about at home? > > Does anybody know how much we can save by turning off a computer 20 hours a > day, instead keeping it on all day (in power-saving mode)? My room mate > always keeps his computer on and I want to ask him to turn it off to save > money. He only uses his desktop computer a couple of hours day. > > Looking forward to your tips > > Han-Sun > > > > While you could save $$$ short term by powering off any device that uses electricity, I HIGHLY recommend that you leave computers and monitors in some "on" configuration that doesn't drop power completely. In the LONG term this technique WILL save you $$$ as COLD STRATING any electro- mechanical device is harder on it than leaving it on. Example, when did the light bulb that last went out actually expire in a flash? When you turned it on. Your computer will do the same thing, electrical stress wins out in the end...entropy is REAL! friend, Lute -- He: Electronics Instructor, Terrible Mechanic, Worse Plumber! She: Patient eBay Name: kell Howard & Kelly Lute 402 Marina Blvd. Suisun City, CA 94585 Tele:707-428-4787 Fax:707-428-4633 Email=optcamel@ix.netcom.com Family Web Site: http://pw1.netcom.com/~optcamel/camel.html Pirate Radio Page: http://pw1.netcom.com/~optcamel/camel2.html ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Organization: Plethora . Net - More net, less spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Lines: 22 Message-ID: <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 18:21:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net X-Trace: ptah.visi.com 936728510 205.166.146.8 (Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:21:50 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:21:50 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.enteract.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!not-for-mail In article <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, Han-Sun Yang wrote: >Does anybody know how much we can save by turning off a computer 20 hours a >day, instead keeping it on all day (in power-saving mode)? You waste power by doing this. Power-saving mode is generally low enough power that it's less expensive to leave the computer in that state than to bring it back up. Also, power cycling is bad for computers; don't do it unless you have to. >My room mate >always keeps his computer on and I want to ask him to turn it off to save >money. He only uses his desktop computer a couple of hours day. He is not wasting enough money to be measured. -s -- Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/ Visit my new ISP --- More Net, Less Spam! ###### From: mww@merant.com (Michael Wojcik) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: 8 Sep 1999 15:28:13 GMT Organization: MERANT Inc. Lines: 30 Message-ID: <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> Reply-To: michael.wojcik@merant.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-690.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: xrn 9.00 Originator: mww@lorelei-n Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!mww In article <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) writes: > In article <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, > Han-Sun Yang wrote: > >Does anybody know how much we can save by turning off a computer 20 hours a > >day, instead keeping it on all day (in power-saving mode)? > > You waste power by doing this. Power-saving mode is generally low enough > power that it's less expensive to leave the computer in that state than to > bring it back up. Many computers don't have "power-saving mode". This *is* a.f.c. > Also, power cycling is bad for computers; don't do it > unless you have to. I've seen this claim made many times, but I've never seen it actually substantiated. (Yes, I understand the thinking behind it.) Does anyone have a reference to an actual study? -- Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@merant.com AAI Development, MERANT (block capitals are a company mandate) Department of English, Miami University Thus, the black lie, issuing from his base throat, becomes a boomerang to his hand, and he is hoist by his own petard, and finds himself a marked man. -- attributed to a "small-town newspaper editor in Wisconsin" ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> Organization: Plethora . Net - More net, less spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Lines: 34 Message-ID: <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:50:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net X-Trace: ptah.visi.com 936813057 205.166.146.8 (Wed, 08 Sep 1999 12:50:57 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 12:50:57 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!not-for-mail In article <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com>, Michael Wojcik wrote: >In article <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter >Seebach) writes: >> In article <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, >> Han-Sun Yang wrote: >> >Does anybody know how much we can save by turning off a computer 20 hours a >> >day, instead keeping it on all day (in power-saving mode)? >> You waste power by doing this. Power-saving mode is generally low enough >> power that it's less expensive to leave the computer in that state than to >> bring it back up. >Many computers don't have "power-saving mode". This *is* a.f.c. Yes, but he said, specifically, "in power-saving mode". >> Also, power cycling is bad for computers; don't do it >> unless you have to. >I've seen this claim made many times, but I've never seen it actually >substantiated. (Yes, I understand the thinking behind it.) Does >anyone have a reference to an actual study? Probably not. It's ancient folklore from the Amiga community, at least; we've always believed that the power supply takes more wear from starting up than from running. -s -- Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/ Visit my new ISP --- More Net, Less Spam! ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:07:42 -0400 Organization: Kettering University (formerly GMI E&MI) - Flint MI Lines: 47 Message-ID: References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nova.kettering.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone.columbus.rr.com!cyclone.rdc-detw.rr.com!news.mw.mediaone.net!news.gmi.edu!nova.kettering.edu!lee1089 On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Peter Seebach wrote: > In article <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com>, > Michael Wojcik wrote: > >In article <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter > >Seebach) writes: > >> In article <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, > >> Han-Sun Yang wrote: > >> >Does anybody know how much we can save by turning off a computer 20 hours a > >> >day, instead keeping it on all day (in power-saving mode)? > > >> You waste power by doing this. Power-saving mode is generally low enough > >> power that it's less expensive to leave the computer in that state than to > >> bring it back up. > > >Many computers don't have "power-saving mode". This *is* a.f.c. > > Yes, but he said, specifically, "in power-saving mode". > > >> Also, power cycling is bad for computers; don't do it > >> unless you have to. > > >I've seen this claim made many times, but I've never seen it actually > >substantiated. (Yes, I understand the thinking behind it.) Does > >anyone have a reference to an actual study? > > Probably not. It's ancient folklore from the Amiga community, at least; we've > always believed that the power supply takes more wear from starting up than > from running. Unless, of course, it happens to be running at the time that the huge power spike hits and fries it. We have bad power here and we are constantly losing ATX power supplies because of power spikes. The AT power supplies seem to be fine. Why? Because ATX power supplies never turn off unless you remove the plug from the outlet. ____________________________________________________________________________ | "A little nonsense now and then, | "If it walks out of the fridge, let Is relished by the wisest men." | it go" -- John Dougherty --W.W. | "If it loves you it will come back." | -- Ian Davis __________________________________|_________________________________________ Theta Xi Kappa Sigma 1175 ###### From: mww@merant.com (Michael Wojcik) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: 8 Sep 1999 21:27:04 GMT Organization: MERANT Inc. Lines: 53 Message-ID: <7r6kb8$ols@news1.newsguy.com> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> Reply-To: michael.wojcik@merant.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-336.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: xrn 9.00 Originator: mww@lorelei-n Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!mww In article <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) writes: > In article <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com>, > Michael Wojcik wrote: > >In article <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter > >Seebach) writes: > >> In article <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, > >> Han-Sun Yang wrote: > >> >Does anybody know how much we can save by turning off a computer 20 hours a > >> >day, instead keeping it on all day (in power-saving mode)? > > >> You waste power by doing this. Power-saving mode is generally low enough > >> power that it's less expensive to leave the computer in that state than to > >> bring it back up. > > >Many computers don't have "power-saving mode". This *is* a.f.c. > > Yes, but he said, specifically, "in power-saving mode". Why so he did. Damn. It's been a while since I last did that. > >> Also, power cycling is bad for computers; don't do it > >> unless you have to. > > >I've seen this claim made many times, but I've never seen it actually > >substantiated. (Yes, I understand the thinking behind it.) Does > >anyone have a reference to an actual study? > > Probably not. It's ancient folklore from the Amiga community, at least; we've > always believed that the power supply takes more wear from starting up than > from running. I recall seeing it discussed in IBM PC-related magazines years ago, too, but I don't remember ever hearing anything definite. (On the other hand, I do clearly remember a nice little study one of the rags did back in the mid-80s testing the sensitivity of floppy disks to various sources of magnetic flux. None of the normal computer or household equipment bothered any of their test floppies noticeably; the only set that had problems were the ones exposed to the flux from an arc welder power supply. Yet still many people are afraid to work on their computers with magnetic screwdrivers.) -- Michael Wojcik michael.wojcik@merant.com AAI Development, MERANT (block capitals are a company mandate) Department of English, Miami University Shakespeare writes bombast and knows it; Mr Thomas writes bombast and doesn't. That is the difference. -- Geoffrey Johnson ###### From: hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Message-ID: References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <7r6kb8$ols@news1.newsguy.com> Organization: ErsteSoft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.1 Lines: 33 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:00:08 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.103.86.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@pacbell.net X-Trace: typhoon-sf.pbi.net 936853198 216.103.86.8 (Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:59:58 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:59:58 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!bos-service1.ext.raytheon.com!cyclone.swbell.net!typhoon-sf.pbi.net.POSTED!hnsngr In article <7r6kb8$ols@news1.newsguy.com>, michael.wojcik@merant.com wrote: > (On the other hand, I do clearly remember a nice little study one > of the rags did back in the mid-80s testing the sensitivity of > floppy disks to various sources of magnetic flux. None of the > normal computer or household equipment bothered any of their test > floppies noticeably; the only set that had problems were the ones > exposed to the flux from an arc welder power supply. Yet still > many people are afraid to work on their computers with magnetic > screwdrivers.) I ran some tests of my own on that, because I kept hearing conflicting reports, all "definitive". I came up with roughly the results stated above. Normal magnetic fields (as found in a typical household) won't faze typical floppies. In fact, I found only two cases where magnets had any effect on floppies: I had a stereo speaker with a magnet on the back that was strong enough to support the weight of the speaker on a metal wall. That could partially erase a 5.25" floppy, but had no effect on a 3.5" floppy, nor on that 5.25" floppy if it was protected by a layer of thick paper/very thin cardboard, as might be used for a light- weight mailer. (That's about 0.04" thick.) A bulk eraser, designed for erasing reels of magnetic tape, had no trouble erasing any size floppy. And that's it. Nothing else made a difference. That 5.25" floppy, with no protection whatsoever, lived comfortably for a week on the bottom of my telephone (standard electomagnetic ringer) without dropping a bit. -Ron Hunsinger ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl> Organization: Plethora . Net - More net, less spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Lines: 21 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:04:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net X-Trace: ptah.visi.com 936831862 205.166.146.8 (Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:04:22 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:04:22 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!not-for-mail In article <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl>, Thomas Tonino wrote: >Also, the fact that a light bulb fails at the moment of switching >on does not mean that switching on causes the most wear - just >that switching on manages to find the weak spot. And you have to >switch off sometimes anyway so the weak spot will bite you for >sure when you switch on again - maybe a week later. Hmm. An interesting point, however, I believe it's also established that lightbulbs, at least, don't last for as many hours if you flip them on and off a lot. I leave computers running because almost all of them are providing services I may need remotely. -s -- Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/ Visit my new ISP --- More Net, Less Spam! ###### From: Thomas Tonino Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 00:26:21 +0200 Organization: A2000 Kabeltelevisie en Telecommunicatie Lines: 18 Message-ID: <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: node10605.a2000.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: weber.a2000.nl 936829527 17527 24.132.6.5 (8 Sep 1999 22:25:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@a2000.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Sep 1999 22:25:27 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.7 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!nntp.abs.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!newshub1.nl.home.com!news.nl.home.com!pascal.a2000.nl!newsfeed.a2000.nl!not-for-mail Peter Seebach wrote: > Probably not. It's ancient folklore from the Amiga community, at least; we've > always believed that the power supply takes more wear from starting up than > from running. ... because the A1000 manual warned against rapid power cycling, probably. Anyway, power cycling may not be good, but wear and tear also counts. Also, the fact that a light bulb fails at the moment of switching on does not mean that switching on causes the most wear - just that switching on manages to find the weak spot. And you have to switch off sometimes anyway so the weak spot will bite you for sure when you switch on again - maybe a week later. Thomas ###### From: phil@ricochet.net (phil) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 06:45:43 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 24 Message-ID: <37d75736.8454316@news.ricochet.net> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!remarQ73!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail On Thu, 09 Sep 1999 00:26:21 +0200, Thomas Tonino wrote: >Peter Seebach wrote: > >> Probably not. It's ancient folklore from the Amiga community, at least; we've >> always believed that the power supply takes more wear from starting up than >> from running. > >... because the A1000 manual warned against rapid power cycling, >probably. Anyway, power cycling may not be good, but wear and >tear also counts. > >Also, the fact that a light bulb fails at the moment of switching >on does not mean that switching on causes the most wear - just >that switching on manages to find the weak spot. And you have to >switch off sometimes anyway so the weak spot will bite you for >sure when you switch on again - maybe a week later. > I always thought it was to do with the caps discharging. Still can't resist counting to ten before restarting a machine. phil. ###### From: phil@ricochet.net (phil) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 06:47:40 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: <37d757c2.8594368@news.ricochet.net> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!do.de.uu.net!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!remarQ73!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail On Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:04:22 GMT, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) wrote: >In article <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl>, >Thomas Tonino wrote: >>Also, the fact that a light bulb fails at the moment of switching >>on does not mean that switching on causes the most wear - just >>that switching on manages to find the weak spot. And you have to >>switch off sometimes anyway so the weak spot will bite you for >>sure when you switch on again - maybe a week later. > >Hmm. An interesting point, however, I believe it's also established that >lightbulbs, at least, don't last for as many hours if you flip them on and off >a lot. > Read somewhere that this is an issue with fluorescent lights due to the w&t caused by the starter. phil. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 99 07:51:07 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 33 Message-ID: <7r80a2$1kd$5@winter.news.rcn.net> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> X-Trace: Kt0TpgB54jQZFXxNhkGcijWsonc2/bGWC+EKVWjB2+g= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 1999 09:57:22 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!d13 In article <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com>, mww@merant.com (Michael Wojcik) wrote: > >In article <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) writes: >> In article <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, >> Han-Sun Yang wrote: >> >Does anybody know how much we can save by turning off a computer 20 hours a >> >day, instead keeping it on all day (in power-saving mode)? >> >> You waste power by doing this. Power-saving mode is generally low enough >> power that it's less expensive to leave the computer in that state than to >> bring it back up. > >Many computers don't have "power-saving mode". This *is* a.f.c. > >> Also, power cycling is bad for computers; don't do it >> unless you have to. > >I've seen this claim made many times, but I've never seen it actually >substantiated. (Yes, I understand the thinking behind it.) Does >anyone have a reference to an actual study? > It used to be true with our mainframes. But the breakage had more to do with the huge temperature changes than anything else. Those babies ran hot. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 99 07:53:07 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 60 Message-ID: <7r80dr$1kd$6@winter.news.rcn.net> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <7r6kb8$ols@news1.newsguy.com> X-Trace: Kt0TpgB54jSmqOiemG+SxSIicUxOknYITD5WiP/4N2Y= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 1999 09:59:23 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!d13 In article <7r6kb8$ols@news1.newsguy.com>, mww@merant.com (Michael Wojcik) wrote: > >In article <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) writes: >> In article <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com>, >> Michael Wojcik wrote: >> >In article <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter >> >Seebach) writes: >> >> In article <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, >> >> Han-Sun Yang wrote: >> >> >Does anybody know how much we can save by turning off a computer 20 hours a >> >> >day, instead keeping it on all day (in power-saving mode)? >> >> >> You waste power by doing this. Power-saving mode is generally low enough >> >> power that it's less expensive to leave the computer in that state than to >> >> bring it back up. >> >> >Many computers don't have "power-saving mode". This *is* a.f.c. >> >> Yes, but he said, specifically, "in power-saving mode". > >Why so he did. Damn. It's been a while since I last did that. > >> >> Also, power cycling is bad for computers; don't do it >> >> unless you have to. >> >> >I've seen this claim made many times, but I've never seen it actually >> >substantiated. (Yes, I understand the thinking behind it.) Does >> >anyone have a reference to an actual study? >> >> Probably not. It's ancient folklore from the Amiga community, at least; we've >> always believed that the power supply takes more wear from starting up than >> from running. > >I recall seeing it discussed in IBM PC-related magazines years ago, >too, but I don't remember ever hearing anything definite. > >(On the other hand, I do clearly remember a nice little study one >of the rags did back in the mid-80s testing the sensitivity of >floppy disks to various sources of magnetic flux. None of the >normal computer or household equipment bothered any of their test >floppies noticeably; the only set that had problems were the ones >exposed to the flux from an arc welder power supply. Yet still >many people are afraid to work on their computers with magnetic >screwdrivers.) > Once upon a time, I had a lady who came in to clean the house. Whenever she vacuumed in our computer room, JMF had to get a new modem. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 99 09:34:39 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 33 Message-ID: <7r86c6$a3r$1@winter.news.rcn.net> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <7r80a2$1kd$5@winter.news.rcn.net> X-Trace: Umretg+6INNXqGrXG17/UxcQgkduPuh/G7zM/GiO3C0= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 1999 11:40:54 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!d13 In article , Nick Spalding wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > >> It used to be true with our mainframes. But the breakage had >> more to do with the huge temperature changes than anything else. >> Those babies ran hot. > >In my IBM CE days in the 60s there was a much believed story of the >Stretch at the UK's atomic energy research place at Aldermaston. >Normally it was not switched off but on one occasion when there was a >prolonged public holiday, something like Christmas falling on a Monday >so that there would be nobody around from Friday night to Wednesday >morning, and some bean-counter decided to shut it down entirely. Not >only that but they turned off the air-conditioning too. The story was >that it took 3 weeks to get it running again. I can believe it. In those days, IIRC, shutting down disk drives had terrible side-effects, too. When the US was in that energy crisis coupled with a determined austerity effort within in our company, a bean counter suggested the same thing with our main frames. He was laughed out of the room; fortunately, there were still people around that had sense to do so at that time. In the latter 80s, this region began to have power supply problems so we had to have a "prevent brown/black out" plans. There wasn't much that I could power down without costing tons of money. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: Nick Spalding Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:24:38 +0100 Organization: Ireland On-Line Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <7r80a2$1kd$5@winter.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: spalding@iol.ie NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-0895.dublin.iol.ie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/1.3.2.0 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!news-fra.pop.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!btnet-peer!btnet!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!iol.ie!iol!not-for-mail jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > It used to be true with our mainframes. But the breakage had > more to do with the huge temperature changes than anything else. > Those babies ran hot. In my IBM CE days in the 60s there was a much believed story of the Stretch at the UK's atomic energy research place at Aldermaston. Normally it was not switched off but on one occasion when there was a prolonged public holiday, something like Christmas falling on a Monday so that there would be nobody around from Friday night to Wednesday morning, and some bean-counter decided to shut it down entirely. Not only that but they turned off the air-conditioning too. The story was that it took 3 weeks to get it running again. -- Nick Spalding ###### From: hnlute@optcamel.com (Howard N. Lute) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:54:50 -0700 Organization: Optimum Computer Services Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <7r80a2$1kd$5@winter.news.rcn.net> Reply-To: hnlute@optcamel.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ffd-ca6-18.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Sep 09 3:55:42 PM CDT 1999 X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!ix.netcom.com!news In article , spalding@iol.ie says... > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > > > It used to be true with our mainframes. But the breakage had > > more to do with the huge temperature changes than anything else. > > Those babies ran hot. > > In my IBM CE days in the 60s there was a much believed story of the > Stretch at the UK's atomic energy research place at Aldermaston. > Normally it was not switched off but on one occasion when there was a > prolonged public holiday, something like Christmas falling on a Monday > so that there would be nobody around from Friday night to Wednesday > morning, and some bean-counter decided to shut it down entirely. Not > only that but they turned off the air-conditioning too. The story was > that it took 3 weeks to get it running again. > Yeah and I recall that there was a 360/50 1 MB machine at S.F. City Hall that had been powered "on" since day one...NEVER turned off deliberately, only during power failures (!), It had been installed as a leased machine ( common) in 1969...it was now the Fall of 1972, it was powered off accidentally, by an operator at the console. It took us three days to get all the bad cards outa' that puppy! LOTS of us! I was a spec. on the 50 CPU, what a wonder! friend, Lute -- He: Electronics Instructor, Terrible Mechanic, Worse Plumber! She: Patient eBay Name: kell Howard & Kelly Lute 402 Marina Blvd. Suisun City, CA 94585 Tele:707-428-4787 Fax:707-428-4633 Email=optcamel@ix.netcom.com Family Web Site: http://pw1.netcom.com/~optcamel/camel.html Pirate Radio Page: http://pw1.netcom.com/~optcamel/camel2.html ###### From: Mike Swaim Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <7r6kb8$ols@news1.newsguy.com> Organization: PointeCom User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980818 ("Laura") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.8-RELEASE (i386)) Lines: 17 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:40:47 CDT X-Trace: sv1-Loqhbhlz41gQYou4QFPjVtqyauuUIZfLH2DBTp2Ab508MXxAxr1QjNfm8debWeiqQQ3mBPLg6birNX7!iu0O4lADwtg= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 14:40:47 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.giganews.com!news4.giganews.com.POSTED!gemini.c-com.net!swaim Ron Hunsinger wrote: : In fact, I found only two cases where magnets had any effect on floppies: : I had a stereo speaker with a magnet on the back that was strong : enough to support the weight of the speaker on a metal wall. That : could partially erase a 5.25" floppy, but had no effect on a 3.5" : floppy, nor on that 5.25" floppy if it was protected by a layer : of thick paper/very thin cardboard, as might be used for a light- : weight mailer. (That's about 0.04" thick.) A friend of mine used his magnetic money clip on a 5 1/4" inch floppy, and that scrambled the data on it just fine. -- Mike Swaim, Avatar of Chaos: Disclaimer:I sometimes lie. Home: swaim@c-com.net Alum: swaim@alumni.rice.edu Quote: "Boingie"^4 Y,W&D ###### From: dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:53:40 +0100 Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.19.67.123 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: 936943127 IIX5YQT0T437BD413C uk21.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarq.com X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!127.0.0.1!nobody In article , seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) writes: > In article <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl>, > Thomas Tonino wrote: >>Also, the fact that a light bulb fails at the moment of switching >>on does not mean that switching on causes the most wear - just >>that switching on manages to find the weak spot. And you have to >>switch off sometimes anyway so the weak spot will bite you for >>sure when you switch on again - maybe a week later. > > Hmm. An interesting point, however, I believe it's also established that > lightbulbs, at least, don't last for as many hours if you flip them on and off > a lot. That's because the filaments get hot enough that thermal expansion makes them move considerably; and if you keep turning them on an off, metal fatigue eventually sets in (aided by weird crystallisation effects, no doubt, due to the repeated heating). Any sort of filament does this; but it's particularly noticeable in bulbs and flourescent tubes due to the thinness of the filament. Things aren't helped by the tendency of the tungsten to evaporate off the filament after a lot of use, making them even thinner (remember those black marks at each end of elderly flourescents? Recondensed metal). -- +- David Given ---------------McQ-+ "All power corrupts, but we need | Work: dg@tao-group.com | electricity." --- Diana Wynne Jones, | Play: dgiven@iname.com | _Archer's Goon_ +- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ ###### Date: 09 Sep 99 18:31:23 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl> <37d757c2.8594368@news.ricochet.net> Message-ID: <1163.921T1191T11114560@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 30 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com X-Trace: 10 Sep 1999 09:54:37 -0800, news.skybus.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.icl.net!feed.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!east1.newsfeed.sprint-canada.net!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.119 In article <37d757c2.8594368@news.ricochet.net> phil@ricochet.net (phil) writes: >On Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:04:22 GMT, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) >wrote: > >>In article <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl>, >>Thomas Tonino wrote: >> >>>Also, the fact that a light bulb fails at the moment of switching >>>on does not mean that switching on causes the most wear - just >>>that switching on manages to find the weak spot. And you have to >>>switch off sometimes anyway so the weak spot will bite you for >>>sure when you switch on again - maybe a week later. >> >>Hmm. An interesting point, however, I believe it's also established >>that lightbulbs, at least, don't last for as many hours if you flip >>them on and off a lot. > >Read somewhere that this is an issue with fluorescent lights due to >the w&t caused by the starter. The figure I heard was that a fluorescent light's lifetime was decreased by 90 minutes each time you turned it off and on - so if you're going to be out of the room for less than that, you're better off leaving them on. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: David M. Razler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:30:06 -0400 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 49 Message-ID: References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl> Reply-To: david.razler@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.220.145 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net 936919833 1125 12.79.220.145 (9 Sep 1999 23:30:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 1999 23:30:33 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster2!not-for-mail seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) wrote: | In article <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl>, | Thomas Tonino wrote: | >Also, the fact that a light bulb fails at the moment of switching | >on does not mean that switching on causes the most wear - just | >that switching on manages to find the weak spot. And you have to | >switch off sometimes anyway so the weak spot will bite you for | >sure when you switch on again - maybe a week later. | | Hmm. An interesting point, however, I believe it's also established that | lightbulbs, at least, don't last for as many hours if you flip them on and off | a lot. | | I leave computers running because almost all of them are providing services | I may need remotely. | | -s The lightbulb (and most electronic components built without slow-ramp-up power supplies, including anything with a switching power supply I've seen) tend to die when suddenly going from a no-current state to a full-current state because of the sudden change in state from cold to hot. The change doesn't seem that big when comparing lightbulbs with individual transistors until you realize a modern transistor is @25 microns across. The fact that things die when shocked and die faster when shocked repeatedly should not come as a surprise, though, I admit actual data is either lacking or has not been released by manufacturers. Assuming cycling radically decreases the MTBF, I tend to keep my equipment hot - running through a pair of good UPSs that not only protect my equipment, but my investment (if a spike blows out the system, they replace it). Especially in summer, this costs me on my electric bill (paying to heat the air and remove the heat as well). The only thing I turn off are the CRTs, which have a lifespan based on hours of use - I wish there were some way to leave everything but the tube voltage supplies running at all times. I justify the cost, at least to myself, on the basis that not only am I saving in the long-run (it takes a lot of energy, not to mention money to make a motherboard, etc.) but I'm helping the world, keeping SETI@home running whenever I'm not at the keyboard. dmr David M. Razler david.razler@worldnet.att.net ###### From: glass2@glass2.lexington.ibm.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: 10 Sep 1999 13:00:04 GMT Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 44 Message-ID: <7ravck$1ede$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> Reply-To: wa4qal@vnet.ibm.net NNTP-Posting-Host: glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspeer.ebone.net!NewsNG.Chicago.Qual.Net!207.24.245.130!nyd.news.ans.net!abq.news.ans.net!news-w.ans.net!news.chips.ibm.com!newsfeed.btv.ibm.com!rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com!ausnews.austin.ibm.com!not-for-mail In , dg@pearl.tao.co.uk (David Given) writes: >In article , > seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) writes: >> In article <37D6E28D.75A26C69@bio.vu.nl>, >> Thomas Tonino wrote: >>>Also, the fact that a light bulb fails at the moment of switching >>>on does not mean that switching on causes the most wear - just >>>that switching on manages to find the weak spot. And you have to >>>switch off sometimes anyway so the weak spot will bite you for >>>sure when you switch on again - maybe a week later. >> >> Hmm. An interesting point, however, I believe it's also established that >> lightbulbs, at least, don't last for as many hours if you flip them on and off >> a lot. > >That's because the filaments get hot enough that thermal expansion makes >them move considerably; and if you keep turning them on an off, metal >fatigue eventually sets in (aided by weird crystallisation effects, no >doubt, due to the repeated heating). Any sort of filament does this; but >it's particularly noticeable in bulbs and flourescent tubes due to the >thinness of the filament. > >Things aren't helped by the tendency of the tungsten to evaporate off the >filament after a lot of use, making them even thinner (remember those >black marks at each end of elderly flourescents? Recondensed metal). > >-- >+- David Given ---------------McQ-+ "All power corrupts, but we need >| Work: dg@tao-group.com | electricity." --- Diana Wynne Jones, >| Play: dgiven@iname.com | _Archer's Goon_ >+- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ The thermal expansion is the same effect that causes a lot of vaccum tube (valve) failures. And, having a single tube (valve) fail in a computer can render it completely inoperable. Thus, all computers should be left powered on. Well, at least those based on tubes. Umm, this is a.f.c, isn't it? :*) Dave P.S. Standard Disclaimer: I work for them, but I don't speak for them. ###### From: hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: 10 Sep 1999 17:58:10 -0500 Organization: House of Hawkins Lines: 19 Message-ID: <7rc2e2$8bl$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hawkins.cba.uni.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uni.edu!not-for-mail In article <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com>, Peter Seebach wrote: >Probably not. It's ancient folklore from the Amiga community, at least; we've >always believed that the power supply takes more wear from starting up than >from running. The Mac's I bought in the early to mid 90's suggested leaving them on for the rest of the day once turned on. But now that I think of it, this was about wear more than electricity--the initial spinning of the HD, spindown, and maybe the crt. Apple acknowledged thatthe actual break-even was after about half a day, but calimed that this rule was easier, and that unless you *knew* that you wouldn't have to turn it on again, you came out ahead this way. -- These opinions will not be those of UNI until it pays my retainer. ###### From: hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Message-ID: References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <7rc2e2$8bl$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> Organization: ErsteSoft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.1 Lines: 35 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:55:12 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.103.86.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@pacbell.net X-Trace: typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net 937108506 216.103.86.8 (Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:55:06 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:55:06 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!news-out.digex.net.MISMATCH!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!intermedia!cyclone.swbell.net!typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net.POSTED!hnsngr In article <7rc2e2$8bl$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu>, hawk@hawkins.cba.uni.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) wrote: > The Mac's I bought in the early to mid 90's suggested leaving them > on for the rest of the day once turned on. But now that I think of > it, this was about wear more than electricity--the initial spinning > of the HD, spindown, and maybe the crt. Apple acknowledged thatthe > actual break-even was after about half a day, but calimed that this > rule was easier, and that unless you *knew* that you wouldn't have > to turn it on again, you came out ahead this way. I learned the hard way that it's best to leave them on all the time. Nothing to do with the power supply or the hard drive. I had a Mac 512K (note: no hard drive) that would sometimes be dead on power on. The symptom was a pattern of wide vertical bars on the screen, with a sudden jag in the bars about an inch below the top of the screen. I found that I could fix the problem by taking the machine apart, pulling the RAM and reinserting it. The first few times it happened, the computer was still under warranty, so I took it in to an Apple-authorized repair center. They'd put it on a bench in the back room, plug it in, turn it on, and leave it for a week. Then they'd call me and tell me that they couldn't reproduce the problem. Of course not! They weren't turning it on and off! By analyzing the pattern on screen, and knowing how video memory was laid out in RAM, I was able to pin it down to the specific contact on the RAM SIMMs that wasn't making contact. Pulling the RAM and reinserting it made the contact good again for a while. My hypothesis was that the thermal expansion and contraction from the heat cycling was working the SIMM loose. If correct, the remedy would be to leave the machine on all the time, which I did. And sure enough, the problem disappeared. -Ron Hunsinger ###### From: Luis Fernandes Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: 12 Sep 1999 07:06:27 -0400 Organization: Ryerson Polytechnic University Lines: 7 Sender: elf@genesis Message-ID: References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <7r6kb8$ols@news1.newsguy.com> <7r80dr$1kd$6@winter.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: sulfur.ee.ryerson.ca X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 19.34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!torn!news.ryerson.ca!not-for-mail >>>>> "jmfbahciv" == jmfbahciv writes: jmfbahciv> Once upon a time, I had a lady who came in to clean jmfbahciv> the house. Whenever she vacuumed in our computer jmfbahciv> room, JMF had to get a new modem. Wouldn't it just be cheaper to get a new cleaning lady? ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: 13 Sep 1999 02:22:54 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <7rhn5u$1mt@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <7rc2e2$8bl$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> <37DC23AC.4C4CF460@egg.chips.and.spam.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet5.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gctr.net!news.frontiernet.net!xcski.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 fungus (fungus@egg.chips.and.spam.com) writes: > Ron Hunsinger wrote: >> >> I learned the hard way that it's best to leave them on all the time. > > I've got a Silicon Graphics VGX which doesn't work until it warms up > - the CPU doesn't even start. > > When I need to use it I switch it on, leave it for a few minutes, then > hit reset. Once it gets up to temperature it works perfectly, never a > glitch. > > > > PS: If anybody wants this machine it's going for free, along with > a Silicon Graphics GT which I also need to get rid of. The only > condition is you have to come and collect it from Valencia, Spain. [Wait for it ...] Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! (The way the airline crap is going in Canada, I might be able to fly there, but have to paddle the damn thing back in my kayack.) ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Date: 13 Sep 1999 10:56:03 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <7ril83$cbg@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <7rc2e2$8bl$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> <37DC23AC.4C4CF460@egg.chips.and.spam.com> <7rhn5u$1mt@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <37DCC55D.4944B1EA@egg.chips.and.spam.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet5.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gctr.net!news.frontiernet.net!xcski.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 fungus (fungus@egg.chips.and.spam.com) writes: > "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: >> >> fungus (fungus@egg.chips.and.spam.com) writes: >> > >> > Silicon Graphics VGX .... >> > >> (The way the airline crap is going in Canada, I might be able to >> fly there, but have to paddle the damn thing back in my kayack.) > > I hope it's a *big* kayak.... It's a 17 footer - that's why there's room for a 'c'. B-) ###### From: prs@gol.com (Peter Stephenson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question: Power Saving? Message-ID: <37e24d92.2811181@nnrp.gol.com> References: <7r3jv0$bua$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <2JcB3.80$S5.6059@ptah.visi.com> <7r5vad$291s@news1.newsguy.com> <5mxB3.438$S5.33703@ptah.visi.com> <7rc2e2$8bl$1@hawkins.cba.uni.edu> <37DC23AC.4C4CF460@egg.chips.and.spam.com> <7rhn5u$1mt@freenet-news.carleton.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:50:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.216.42.48 X-Complaints-To: abuse@gol.com X-Trace: nnrp.gol.com 937381850 203.216.42.48 (Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:50:50 JST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:50:50 JST Organization: Global Online Japan Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsfeed.gol.com!203.216.70.8.MISMATCH!POSTED.nnrp.gol.com!not-for-mail On 13 Sep 1999 02:22:54 GMT, ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote: > >> PS: If anybody wants this machine it's going for free, along with >> a Silicon Graphics GT which I also need to get rid of. The only > > (The way the airline crap is going in Canada, I might be able to > fly there, but have to paddle the damn thing back in my kayack.) If you want to paddle home the long way round, I have a nice 17" monitor that I'll give you for free. I'm not too far from Tokyo harbour.