From: jsf0864@aol.com (JSF0864) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: 1960's Teletype teleprinter photo Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 17 Aug 1999 14:31:10 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19990817103110.00333.00000054@ng-co1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail My latest installment of vintage computer and related equipment photos is that of a Teletype teleprinter, posted at http://hometown.aol.com/jsf605213/myhomepage/index.html or http://hometown.aol.com/jsf605213/myhomepage/teletype.gif There was no model number given, but I assume it was an early to mid '60's model as it uses a rotary dial. has anyone had any experience with this classic equipment? take care, John F. ###### From: Tim Shoppa Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960's Teletype teleprinter photo Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:06:05 -0400 Organization: Trailing Edge Technology Lines: 17 Message-ID: <37B9421D.7F6D6DF1@trailing-edge.com> References: <19990817103110.00333.00000054@ng-co1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: timaxp.trailing-edge.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ffx2nh5.news.uu.net 934902366 26829 63.73.218.130 (17 Aug 1999 15:06:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@ffx2nh5.news.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 1999 15:06:06 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.0 DEC 3000 Model 300L) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!zur.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!ffx2nh3!not-for-mail JSF0864 wrote: > > My latest installment of vintage computer and related equipment photos is that > of a Teletype teleprinter, posted at > > http://hometown.aol.com/jsf605213/myhomepage/index.html > or > http://hometown.aol.com/jsf605213/myhomepage/teletype.gif > > There was no model number given, but I assume it was an early to mid '60's > model as it uses a rotary dial. > has anyone had any experience with this classic equipment? It looks like a Model 33ASR to me! In fact, it looks identical (even down to the copy holder) to two I've got right here... Tim. (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960's Teletype teleprinter photo Date: 17 Aug 1999 13:46:12 -0700 Organization: None Lines: 35 Message-ID: <7pchmk$cn7@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <19990817103110.00333.00000054@ng-co1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-947.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn In article <19990817103110.00333.00000054@ng-co1.aol.com>, jsf0864@aol.com says... > >My latest installment of vintage computer and related equipment photos is that >of a Teletype teleprinter, posted at > >http://hometown.aol.com/jsf605213/myhomepage/index.html >or >http://hometown.aol.com/jsf605213/myhomepage/teletype.gif > >There was no model number given, but I assume it was an early to mid '60's >model as it uses a rotary dial. >has anyone had any experience with this classic equipment? Yep, that's a classic Teletype, an ASR33, if memory serves. That model is loaded with options, like the paper tape punch and phone. It isn't necessarily an early '60s model, I recall using a brand new one in the early 1970s that included the rotary phone. It was my first computing experience (well, if you don't count that plastic "turing machine" kit I bought from Edmund Scientific).. The model I used belonged to my father, and oddly enough, was installed at his FTD flower shop. FTD was always quite technologically advanced, it used to stand for "Florists Telegraph Delivery" before they changed "telegraph" to "transworld." They were the first nationwide chain of retail stores of any kind to be linked by telegraphy, and throughout the years, they experimented in many different forms of telecommunications. This particular Teletype system was linked to a mainframe at FTD HQ. Local stores would write up flower orders to be delivered in other cities, the operators would punch the order onto paper tape, dial the rotary phone to connect to the mainframe, and feed in the tape. The mainframe would dial up the remote TTY directly, over telephone lines, to transmit the order. Occasionally, throughout the day, our TTY would ring its bells, and roar to life with a huge clatter, and spit out an incoming order. This system must have cost a fortune in phone costs if nothing else. It was way ahead of its time, and worked quite well in practice. ###### From: "Phil Jern" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <19990817103110.00333.00000054@ng-co1.aol.com> Subject: Re: 1960's Teletype teleprinter photo Lines: 31 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:22:16 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.141.240.24 X-Trace: nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech.net 934921946 206.141.240.24 (Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:32:26 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:32:26 CDT Organization: Ameritech.Net www.ameritech.net Complaints: abuse@ameritech.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ameritech.net!nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech.net.POSTED!not-for-mail JSF0864 wrote in message news:19990817103110.00333.00000054@ng-co1.aol.com... > My latest installment of vintage computer and related equipment photos is that > of a Teletype teleprinter, posted at > > http://hometown.aol.com/jsf605213/myhomepage/index.html > or > http://hometown.aol.com/jsf605213/myhomepage/teletype.gif > > There was no model number given, but I assume it was an early to mid '60's > model as it uses a rotary dial. > has anyone had any experience with this classic equipment? It's a Model 33 ASR, 8 bit machine, often used as TELEX terminals (which is what the phone dial was for). Models without the telephone were used as computer terminals. A model 32 looked similar, but was 5 bit code (Baudot) and had only 3 rows of keys. Phil Jern (Who actually used to work for Teletype Corporation repairing these mothers) ###### From: bill_h Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960's Teletype teleprinter photo Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:20:11 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 9 Message-ID: <37BA0A4B.F6E@sunsouthwest.com> References: <19990817103110.00333.00000054@ng-co1.aol.com> <7pcoa5$f6o$1@top.mitre.org> Reply-To: bill_h@sunsouthwest.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.stanford.edu!remarQ73!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Joe Morris wrote: > .....(stuff_deleted)..... oh no, are we gonna have emoti-tags now? Bill Tucson ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960's Teletype teleprinter photo Date: 17 Aug 1999 20:35:43 -0700 Organization: None Lines: 19 Message-ID: <7pd9mf$1oom@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <7pcotl$bl9@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-364.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!enews.sgi.com!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn In article <7pcotl$bl9@netaxs.com>, lwinson@bbs.cpcn.com says... > >The 33 used a typeball element similar to IBM Selectric typewriters, >but I don't think they were easily interchangeable. Not as I recall it. It had a little cylindrical thing, quite unlike the IBM Selectric "golf ball." It had several rows of type arranged around the cylinder, and the cylinder would move up and down, depending I do recall using early Carterphone terminals, which were based on the IBM selectric mechanism, golf-ball and everything, but had the legendary Carterphone acoustic coupler. This must have been in about 1970. I remember you could go to the computer operator's desk and check out a golfball with the special APL characters if you needed it. I was just a little kid, sneaking into the university computer center in the evenings, and dumpster-diving for passwords, so excuse me if I don't remember all the technical details. BTW, when was the famous Carterphone vs. AT&T case? I forget.. ###### From: jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960's Teletype teleprinter photo Date: 17 Aug 1999 22:39:01 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 67 Message-ID: <7pcoa5$f6o$1@top.mitre.org> References: <19990817103110.00333.00000054@ng-co1.aol.com> Reply-To: jcmorris@linus.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Host: jmorris-pc.mitre.org X-Trace: top.mitre.org 934929541 15576 128.29.251.13 (17 Aug 1999 22:39:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.mitre.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Aug 1999 22:39:01 GMT X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG!jcmorris "Phil Jern" writes: >JSF0864 wrote: >> My latest installment of vintage computer and related equipment >>photos is that of a Teletype teleprinter, posted at >> >> http://hometown.aol.com/jsf605213/myhomepage/index.html >> or >> http://hometown.aol.com/jsf605213/myhomepage/teletype.gif >> >> There was no model number given, but I assume it was an early to mid >>'60's model as it uses a rotary dial. >> has anyone had any experience with this classic equipment? >It's a Model 33 ASR, 8 bit machine, often used as TELEX terminals >(which is what the phone dial was for). Models without the telephone >were used as computer terminals. Not necessarily; back in the 1960s and 70s I leased numerous ASR33 boxes with telephones for use as dial-up computer terminals. The primary difference between TWX (not "Telex") and dialup computer terminals was that TWX circuits used the high tone for space while computer terminals used it for mark. The unit in the picture is an ASR33 with a Bell Data Set 109, complete with the six buttons in front of the dial and the rather useless (for computer users) RESTRAIN light and release switch near the top of the right cover. (The RESTRAIN function was used to slow down a high-speed transmitting station when it was attached to a 5-level Baudot terminal through a converter, and the buffers in the converter were getting close to capacity.) In terminals equipped with a DS109 the operator controls and speaker were on the right side cover, but the actual data set was on a frame (of typical battleship-grade Western Electric construction) that was housed in the rear of the pedestal. I certainly do not miss the out-and-out arrogance of the old Bell System, but I *do* miss the solid, ultra-reliable, it-will-survive- a-nuclear-blast mechanical designs that came out of Western Electric factories. Several vendors took normal current-loop ASR33 or KSR33 systems and installed their own modems under the right panel cover (where the dial, buttons, and RESTRAIN frotsi are located in the picture), but the model of the TeleTypes they used was made clear by the presence of the 3-position rotary switch at the right side of the vertical trim panel on the front of the terminal -- a switch that is not present in the picture being considered. I can see (barely) the speaker grill that is on the trim panel just below the rightmost buttons. The 3-position switch controlled the power and internal data loopback; on systems with the Data Set 109 these functions were controlled by the buttons below the dial (or TouchTone pad). There were no non-Bell modems that I recall that used the buttons visible in the picture (which of course doesn't prove that there weren't any such modems). I also never saw any non-Bell modem in an ASR33 or KSR33 that supported autoanswer (turning the motor on when the modem detected ring voltage, allowing the unit to receive a message while unattended), but that was one of the features of the DS109 that showed its origins in the TWX world. Joe Morris ###### From: lwinson@bbs.cpcn.com (lwin) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960's Teletype teleprinter photo Date: 17 Aug 1999 22:49:25 GMT Organization: The PACSIBM SIG BBS Lines: 33 Message-ID: <7pcotl$bl9@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bbs.cpcn.com Originator: root@bbs.cpcn.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!yellow.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!netaxs.newsread.com!bbs.cpcn.com!root I liked using the Teletype Model 33 with the built-in modem. To dial on the built-in modem, you pressed the ORIG key, got a dial tone through the speaker, and dialed the number of the computer. Everything from that point on was automatic. When you were finished your session and logged off the host computer, it sent out an EOT (CNTL-D) which disconnected the TTY and powered it down. If another TTY telephoned your TTY, it would power itself up and answer the call. TTYs had a "Here is" button that issued a pre-recorded answer-back string. This could be automatically inquired by the WRU control character. The paper tape reader could be started by x-on and x-off commands. Some tape punches could be started by remote commands too. Some machines had pin feed paper. A CNTL-L (form feed) would cause the paper to eject to the next top of page. It seemed most time sharing users had plain rolled paper (for some reason it was always yellow.) The 33 used a typeball element similar to IBM Selectric typewriters, but I don't think they were easily interchangeable. (Many TTYs used "external" modems in which you had a separate telephone set and used an acoustic coupler or flipped a switch on the phone. These had to be connected and disconnected manually.) ###### From: Digital.Magic@cadvision.com (John W Hall) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 1960's Teletype teleprinter photo Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:13:16 GMT Message-ID: <37b9f849.871232@news.cadvision.com> References: <19990817103110.00333.00000054@ng-co1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.138.167 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.148.138.167 X-Trace: 17 Aug 1999 18:13:42 -0700, 207.148.138.167 Organization: CADVision Development Corporation (http://www.cadvision.com/) Lines: 22 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.50.1.43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.cadvision.com!news.cadvision.com!207.148.138.167 On 17 Aug 1999 14:31:10 GMT, jsf0864@aol.com (JSF0864) wrote: >...a Teletype teleprinter, ... >has anyone had any experience with this classic equipment? Almost. Being a Brit at the time, and conscripted into the Royal Air Force in 1953, with a (short) history of working for the telephone 'company', I found myself in tech school as a '5-unit mechanic'. But on the first day we were told "nobody needs 5-unit mechanics any longer, you are now radio fitters". Did the training for that, and arrived in Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), only to be told "We're desperate for 5-unit mechanics. This is a Creed teleprinter, that is the manual. Go into that room and don't come out until you have dis-assembled it, rebuilt it, and it works". Two days later I fired it up and IT WORKED!. But Les was not so fortunate. He fired his up and the motor whined and then slowed ominously. We both crouched under the bench until the typehead clutch spring either broke or somehow escaped from its housing, scattering bell-cranks everywhere. But we reverted to radio guys later, to enjoy the lightning playing on the aerial/antenna patch panel.