From: antpage@mediaone.net (Ant) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Message-ID: <377e27e3.44682929@nntp.we.mediaone.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 49 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 15:14:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.130.2.134 X-Trace: cmnws01.we.mediaone.net 931065304 24.130.2.134 (Sat, 03 Jul 1999 22:15:04 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 22:15:04 PDT Organization: MediaOne-Road Runner, Western Region Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!24.130.1.14!lsnws01.we.mediaone.net!cmnws01.we.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail I found a 301 page book about the history of Commodore computers and Jack Tramiel by Michael Tomczyk! Michael Tomczyk was Tramiel's personal assistant while Tramiel was the head of Commodore computes, the company he started. Tomczyk joined the company in a high position before Commodore designed the Vic 20 and the wonderful Commodore C64 computers. What I've read so far (the first 70 pages) is amazing! It goes into all the key people in Commodore and the design of the computers themselves. The strategy that Tramiel had in selling the computers. It's talks about all these things within the context of the personal computer industry and it's start in the 70's and 80's, all the other computer companies commodore was in competiion with, like Apple, Atari, Sinclair, IBM and many others. I learned that Commodore actually owned MOS technology, the microchip manufacturer who made the chips that almost everyone used for thier computers, I read because of this they were able to keep costs low and it was easier to design special chips the engineers asked for, no other company had this! I wonder if this is one of the reasons Commodore were able to make the amazing C64 which in my opinion blew away all the compitition in those days. The Apple 2e had 128k memory and still couldn't compete with C64's sound and graphics! I've seen a lot of other 8 bit computers by various companies and none of them could beat Commodore 64's sound and graphics, it was the best out of all. There's lots of great info that I've always wanted to know about Commodore. It's a very descriptive book about the people, company and company plan. I read Commodore was one of the biggest computer companies, not only in the U.S. but in Europe also and even Apple computers in those days were behind Commodore. Did you know William Shatner, Star Trek's Enterprise captian, was a TV spokesman for Commodore? And that the company started going downhill when Jack Tramiel left? I haven't read that far yet, I'm still in the Commodore PET computer days when they are talking about a color computer to compete with the competition. I had no idea a book like this existed out there, and i've always been so curious about the Commodore 64 and the company and why there is not Apple, PC and Commodore today instead of it just being a forgotten computer company. Nobody talks about this book, does anyone know about it? Is it a good account of Commodore? Are there any others? I'm thinking of reading other accounts of the personal computer boom during the 70's and 80's like "Accidental Empires" or "Fire in the Sky" but I don't think they even mention Commodore which is always very strange. Ant. Ant's Classic Computer Pages: http://people.we.mediaone.net/antpage/clastoc.htm ###### From: doju@NOSPAM.NOSPAM.bigfoot.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 01:00:20 -0700 Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com Lines: 41 Message-ID: <377F1494.460@NOSPAM.NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> References: <377e27e3.44682929@nntp.we.mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: snfcb609-33.splitrock.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com 931076135 1500380 209.252.6.232 (4 Jul 1999 08:15:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Jul 1999 08:15:35 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newscon02!prodigy.com!not-for-mail Ant wrote: > > I found a 301 page book about the history of Commodore computers > and Jack Tramiel by Michael Tomczyk! Michael Tomczyk was Tramiel's > personal assistant while Tramiel was the head of Commodore computes, > the company he started. Tomczyk joined the company in a high position > before Commodore designed the Vic 20 and the wonderful Commodore C64 > asked for, no other company had this! I wonder if this is one of the > reasons Commodore were able to make the amazing C64 which in my > opinion blew away all the compitition in those days. The Apple 2e had > 128k memory and still couldn't compete with C64's sound and graphics! > I've seen a lot of other 8 bit computers by various companies and none > of them could beat Commodore 64's sound and graphics, it was the best > out of all. > > forgotten computer company. Nobody talks about this book, does anyone > know about it? Is it a good account of Commodore? Are there any > others? I'm thinking of reading other accounts of the personal > computer boom during the 70's and 80's like "Accidental Empires" or > "Fire in the Sky" but I don't think they even mention Commodore which > is always very strange. > I suspect you mean _Fire in the Valley : The Making of the Personal Computer_ by Paul Freiberger. The book you are reading is _The Home Computer Wars : An Insider's Account of Commodore and Jack Tramiel_ Yes I read it. Good story. Wish he had followed through to the time when Commadore disappeared. (Self liquidation.) Atari merged with another company, JTS. Which has also disappeared? They no longer are traded on the exchange and their Domain name now belongs to someone else. This is not the forum for "My computer is better than yours." So be warned that if you praise the C64 too much, you can expect flames. -J- Read _Commodore Roots_ Globe Fearon or Fearon Globe. It was published in 1984. ###### From: gsgatlin@unity.ncsu.edu (Gary Scott Gatling) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Date: 4 Jul 1999 19:30:02 GMT Organization: North Carolina State University Lines: 27 Message-ID: <7locnq$hoq$1@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu> References: <377e27e3.44682929@nntp.we.mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: clueserver.eos.ncsu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!firehose.mindspring.net!gatech!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!not-for-mail Ant (antpage@mediaone.net) wrote: > I found a 301 page book about the history of Commodore computers > and Jack Tramiel by Michael Tomczyk! So is this book in print? Or did you find it in a library. Yes, Commodore has been expunged from almost any account of PC's I've seen. It is kind of weird. But I guess thats what happens when a corporation dies. I think I remember a brief mention of C=s demise on the Today show. And their was an article in Byte that talked about how an era was over with the Amiga being gone. (It was a while ago, so I'm not sure about that.) I got a chance last semester to meet one of the people who worked on the bios for the IBM PC. And he had nothing but good things to say about the Amiga. BTW, he was responsible for the CTRL ALT DELETE sequence. =) (Dr. Bradley is his name if anyone is curious. He teaches here at North Carolina State University now.) Cheers, -- ****************************************************** ** Gary Gatling (gsgatlin@eos.ncsu.edu) ** ** Justify my text? I'm sorry but it has no excuse. ** ****************************************************** ###### From: jsavard@tenMAPSONeerf.edmonton.ab.ca (John Savard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 23:06:56 GMT Organization: PowerSurfr - High Speed Internet Lines: 26 Message-ID: <37813950.7982167@news.prosurfr.com> References: <377e27e3.44682929@nntp.we.mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: c9169-003.v-wave.com X-Trace: dagger.videotron.ab.ca 931215931 11983 24.108.21.103 (5 Jul 1999 23:05:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@powersurfr.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Jul 1999 23:05:31 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!torn!news1.bellglobal.com!news.tac.net!news.videotron.ab.ca!not-for-mail antpage@mediaone.net (Ant) wrote, in part: > I had no idea a book like this existed out there, and i've always >been so curious about the Commodore 64 and the company and why there >is not Apple, PC and Commodore today instead of it just being a >forgotten computer company. Nobody talks about this book, does anyone >know about it? I've got a copy, it was by COMPUTE! Books. They were a magazine with lots of source code listings in the back before Guccione bought the name. The 16-bit era, though, killed Commodore. Jack Tramiel jumped over to Atari to go with the Atari ST, which was a really low-priced machine in the spirit of the C-64; Commodore came out with the Amiga, which was ahead of its time in some ways, but which was too pricey. Those systems both had a modest degree of success, but the IBM PC had more programs available for it, it was the "standard", and so as the power and graphics capabilities of the PC improved, and as software developers jumped ship quickly when those two computers showed signs of trouble, they sank out of sight. And, of course, that experience probably scared a lot of people away from the Mac. John Savard ( teneerf<- ) http://members.xoom.com/quadibloc/crypto.htm ###### From: jsavard@tenMAPSONeerf.edmonton.ab.ca (John Savard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 23:09:03 GMT Organization: PowerSurfr - High Speed Internet Lines: 11 Message-ID: <37813abf.8349367@news.prosurfr.com> References: <377e27e3.44682929@nntp.we.mediaone.net> <7locnq$hoq$1@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: c9169-003.v-wave.com X-Trace: dagger.videotron.ab.ca 931216058 11983 24.108.21.103 (5 Jul 1999 23:07:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@powersurfr.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Jul 1999 23:07:38 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.tac.net!news.videotron.ab.ca!not-for-mail gsgatlin@unity.ncsu.edu (Gary Scott Gatling) wrote, in part: >BTW, he was responsible for the CTRL ALT DELETE sequence. =) But who was the guy responsible for calling it the Alt key, instead of the CODE key, like similar keys were on previous IBM equipment? (The name Alt should have been kept for a key like the AltGr key...one that simply shifts to a new set of printable characters.) John Savard ( teneerf<- ) http://members.xoom.com/quadibloc/crypto.htm ###### From: bluesky6@ix.netcom.com (Ben Chong) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 16:01:10 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <37822802.1836797@news.newsguy.com> References: <377e27e3.44682929@nntp.we.mediaone.net> <7locnq$hoq$1@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu> Reply-To: bluesky6@ix.netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-880.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 On 4 Jul 1999 19:30:02 GMT, gsgatlin@unity.ncsu.edu (Gary Scott Gatling) wrote: > >Yes, Commodore has been expunged from almost any account of PC's I've >seen. It is kind of weird. But I guess thats what happens when a >corporation dies. I think I remember a brief mention of C=s demise on the >Today show. And their was an article in Byte that talked about how an era >was over with the Amiga being gone. (It was a while ago, so I'm not sure >about that.) Amiga's not really gone. I was surprised last week when I got on www.sjmercury.com (San Jose Mercury news) and saw an ad banner for the Amiga. Ben ###### From: lee1089@kettering.edu Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:11:39 -0400 Organization: Kettering University (formerly GMI E&MI) - Flint MI Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <377e27e3.44682929@nntp.we.mediaone.net> <37813950.7982167@news.prosurfr.com> Reply-To: lee1089@kettering.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: nova.kettering.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <37813950.7982167@news.prosurfr.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!iad-peer.news.verio.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!204.210.252.253!cyclone.columbus.rr.com!cyclone.rdc-detw.rr.com!news.mw.mediaone.net!news.gmi.edu!nova.kettering.edu!lee1089 Reply to a reply, sorry I didn't get the original. > antpage@mediaone.net (Ant) wrote, in part: > > > I had no idea a book like this existed out there, and i've always > >been so curious about the Commodore 64 and the company and why there > >is not Apple, PC and Commodore today instead of it just being a > >forgotten computer company. Nobody talks about this book, does anyone > >know about it? The reason it's Apple vs. PC instead of Apple, PC and Commodore is that while both Apple and Commodore tried repeatedly to shoot themselves in the foot, Commodore had better aim. ____________________________________________________________________________ | "A little nonsense now and then, | "If it walks out of the fridge, let Is relished by the wisest men." | it go" -- John Dougherty --as quoted by W.W. | "If it loves you it will come back." | -- Ian Davis __________________________________|_________________________________________ Theta Xi Kappa Sigma ###### From: "Simo Tuominen" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Date: 7 Jul 99 22:29:23 +0300 Organization: ACME, Inc. Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3783D417.MD-1.2.simotit@evitech.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-0-20.evitech.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: MicroDot-II/AmigaOS 1.2 [DEMO COPY/1] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.algonet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed1.funet.fi!news2.funet.fi!not-for-mail jsavard@tenMAPSONeerf.edmonton.ab.ca wrote: > antpage@mediaone.net (Ant) wrote, in part: > > > I had no idea a book like this existed out there, and i've always > >been so curious about the Commodore 64 and the company and why there > >is not Apple, PC and Commodore today instead of it just being a > >forgotten computer company. Nobody talks about this book, does anyone > >know about it? > > I've got a copy, it was by COMPUTE! Books. They were a magazine with > lots of source code listings in the back before Guccione bought the > name. > > The 16-bit era, though, killed Commodore. Jack Tramiel jumped over to > Atari to go with the Atari ST, which was a really low-priced machine > in the spirit of the C-64; Commodore came out with the Amiga, which > was ahead of its time in some ways, but which was too pricey. Well, the 1000 certainly was pricey, but it also had graphics better than any computer in the price range. What really killed CBM was marketing and incompetent management. By the way, check out http://www.amiga.com . I understand that there are new systems coming, and a new OS. IMHO AmigaOS would be a far better choice for palmtops, BTW. WinCE is broken as designed. It clings on to the Win9x style (also broken as designed, but at least in W98 you can help it somewhat), making the display very crowded very quickly. BTW, what 16-bit era? MC68000 is 32/16-bit. Also, Atari ST wasn't a really low price machine. The basic model cost the same as A500 when they came out, and the ST needed a special monitor (either a mono or a color model, and I've luckily forgotten the real abominations (ISTR you were able to run mono programs on mono screen and color on color, but not color on mono?)). -- #include ###### From: JP Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 19:07:52 -0700 Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3786AAF8.5F0C@SPAMCOP.NET> References: <3783D417.MD-1.2.simotit@evitech.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip129-37-20-188.ga.us.ibm.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com 931572654 1500380 129.37.20.188 (10 Jul 1999 02:10:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Jul 1999 02:10:54 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!peer.news.verio.net.MISMATCH!iad-peer.news.verio.net!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!newscon01!prodigy.com!not-for-mail Simo Tuominen wrote: > http://www.amiga.com . I understand that there are new systems coming, > and a new OS. IMHO AmigaOS would be a far better choice for palmtops, > BTW. WinCE is broken as designed. It clings on to the Win9x style > (also broken as designed, but at least in W98 you can help it > somewhat), making the display very crowded very quickly. BTW, what > 16-bit era? MC68000 is 32/16-bit. > #include The rights to the Amiga was sold before Commadore folded. Then that company folded. Gateway Computers owns the rights to the Amiga currently. -jp- ###### From: Charles Eicher Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Date: 9 Jul 1999 23:53:14 -0700 Lines: 13 Message-ID: <7m6qkq$2lbr@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <3783D417.MD-1.2.simotit@evitech.fi> <931581620.693670@estelle.paradise.net.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-094.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn In article <931581620.693670@estelle.paradise.net.nz>, don@news.daedalus.co.nz says... >I admit it, I was young and foolish in 1986. I bought one, out of the >first commercial shipment (prior shipments being demo units) into the >country. It was (literally) more money than I had, and frankly it was >wasted. Oh boy, I remember that. I was working at a huge dealer in LA who SOLD the first commercial shipment of Amigas. 75% of the machines were DOA. We checked with some other dealers, their experience was similar. It took months to get the machines replaced, tying up our cash. It was a waste of money for us too. ###### From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Date: 10 Jul 1999 04:40:22 GMT Organization: Daedalus Consulting Lines: 29 Message-ID: <931581620.693670@estelle.paradise.net.nz> References: <3783D417.MD-1.2.simotit@evitech.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: estelle.paradise.net.nz X-Trace: titan.xtra.co.nz 931581622 5002832 203.96.152.5 (10 Jul 1999 04:40:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Jul 1999 04:40:22 GMT Cache-Post-Path: estelle.paradise.net.nz!unknown@p16-cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3b4 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!news.netgate.net.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!don Simo Tuominen wrote: >jsavard@tenMAPSONeerf.edmonton.ab.ca wrote: >> in the spirit of the C-64; Commodore came out with the Amiga, which >> was ahead of its time in some ways, but which was too pricey. > >Well, the 1000 certainly was pricey, but it also had graphics better >than any computer in the price range. Well, sorta. The A1000's (and other pre A3000 machines') graphics was still a toy, designed to be used with standard video equipment. Sure, it drove a TV better and faster than enything else did, but the displays were never anything outside the parameters of a quality video display. This was when EGA was already available in PC-land with better non-interlaced resolution (640x350, IIRC), albeit with only RGBI colour. So you had a machine that had great low-res colour graphics, had floppies only (hard disks being an expensive, unreliable, late, external, third-party retrofit), making it basically a games machine, but at a "business computer" price. Only the saturation coverage prior to its launch and favourable reviews mostly by people who didn't actually have to use their toys for real work, saved the stupid thing from the ignominous failure it actually deserved. I admit it, I was young and foolish in 1986. I bought one, out of the first commercial shipment (prior shipments being demo units) into the country. It was (literally) more money than I had, and frankly it was wasted. -- don ###### From: antpage@mediaone.net (AntFerris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Message-ID: <378739c0.3590749@nntp.we.mediaone.net> References: <3783D417.MD-1.2.simotit@evitech.fi> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 56 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:45:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.130.2.134 X-Trace: cmnws01.we.mediaone.net 931661125 24.130.2.134 (Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:45:25 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:45:25 PDT Organization: MediaOne-Road Runner, Western Region Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.cwix.com!24.130.1.14!lsnws01.we.mediaone.net!cmnws01.we.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail On 7 Jul 99 22:29:23 +0300, "Simo Tuominen" wrote: >Atari ST wasn't a really low >price machine. The basic model cost the same as A500 when they came >out, and the ST needed a special monitor (either a mono or a color >model, and I've luckily forgotten the real abominations (ISTR you were >able to run mono programs on mono screen and color on color, but not >color on mono?)). Yeah I remember that too, I think I bought my amiga for 700$ or $300 I don't remember which. I heard, and my friends renforced, that the Atari ST could not compete with Amiga 500's sound and video. When I got my amiga I didn't even get a monitor because of the price. I talked to the people there and they said you could buy a cheap 30$ amiga video adaptor to a rca plug, and I just pluged it into the video of my commodore 64 monitor for hires and 4096 colors. I could have pluged it into my TV if I'd wanted to! There were a few colors every once in a while that would glow orange, but I rarely saw that. It was foolish to buy Amiga for business, although I could run wordperfect off it just fine. Someone should have told these guys what the incredible amiga computer was for. It was far more than just a game machine. I was in a PC computer operations class, and they had EGA PC's there too and I was amazed at how pathetic PC's graphics and sound was. Back then PC's were developing sound and graphics that were just catching up to the Commodore 64, much less the Amiga. I told my teacher and my classmates about my Amiga's video and sound capabilities and they wouldn't believe me, they thought what it was some kind of joke! So I brought it in for a demonstration and played the Newtek demo for them off my little Amiga 500. Four video screens pop up on the monitor, on each a pretty girl in full motion color digital video starts playing saying "Hello! Wecome to Newtek!", at the same time and in different sync's! The guy who doubted me the most exclaimed "NO WAY!", and the demo went on to show crome dinosaurs running in a valley, a female robot, simon lebon of duran duran poping in and out of the water in that "hungry like the wolf" video, all at the same time. The demo still went on to show so many other things with background music from the group "Art of Noise". They had never seen anything like it, they stared mesmerized. She asked me to stay on and show her next class. All these things coming out of two floppy disks, a small amiga 500 with no hard disk. and a commodore 64 monitor. I've seen the effect the amiga has had on people, there was nobody that had anything remotely like it. I don't recall PC, Mac or even Atari matching all that. Later on I used my Amiga 500 for graphic production for a t-shirt busines. I got a paint program, scanner program and typesetting program and added a harddrive, memory, scanner and laser printer and was able ro do a lot of quality work with good fast output. And it never broke down on me. That little computer was amazing. Ant. ###### From: "Rob Nicholson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Found book on history of Commodore and Jack Tramiel Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 18:29:51 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Message-ID: <7m81se$l6c$6@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <377e27e3.44682929@nntp.we.mediaone.net> <377F1494.460@NOSPAM.NOSPAM.bigfoot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-122.mycelex.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 931629774 21708 62.136.80.250 (10 Jul 1999 18:02:54 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Jul 1999 18:02:54 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Lines: 9 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail > The book you are reading is _The Home Computer Wars : An Insider's > Account of Commodore and Jack Tramiel_ I met Jack Tramiel once during the Atari Lynx days. Our of the entire family, he was the only one with his head screwed on the right way. Rob.