From: Fredrick Backman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: What's the longest uptime? Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:47:47 +0200 Organization: Telia Internet Services Lines: 15 Message-ID: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: d2o19.telia.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t7o19p57.telia.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@internet.telia.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news.algonet.se!algonet!masternews.telia.net!newspost.telia.com!d2o19.telia.com!t7o19p57.telia.com Does anyone know what's the longest "uptime" for a computer? ie. what's the time record in a computer being switched on without a reboot? I know it's difficult to know for sure but there surely must be some stories, rumors or facts... cheers Fred -- Fred Backman Lead Wizard Binary Spells www.femmefetish.com/games/ ###### From: "Mike Duffy" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:21:10 -0400 Lines: 44 Message-ID: <7kasir$le1$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> X-Trace: 3uiGo/5fpghjR0i+rrwhXeO8bSmuXKnjViO70NTweD8= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jun 1999 13:18:19 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail At the 20th anniversary DECUS (DEC user society - (open)VMS for Alpha and VAX) meeting (in November, 1997), the theme was, among other things, the reliability of the VMS operating system. (One of the demos was taking an original VAX 11/780 (circa 1977), setting the system clock to the year 2003, and watching it run all week). On the other end of the floor were some just-out-of-the-box Alpha 8400's doing the same thing, but doing it a few thousand times faster. Some guy shuffled up to the microphone and said his ancient VAX had last been booted sometime in early 1983, making for over 14 years without a reboot. At the time of that meeting, it was still going. He said it was running VMS V3.something and was being used to run an automated plumbing system for an electrical plant. It's probably not a record, but it's a place to start the bidding :) -Mike Fredrick Backman wrote in message <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net>... >Does anyone know what's the longest "uptime" for a computer? > >ie. what's the time record in a computer being switched on without a >reboot? I know it's difficult to know for sure but there surely must be >some stories, rumors or facts... > >cheers >Fred > >-- >Fred Backman >Lead Wizard >Binary Spells >www.femmefetish.com/games/ > ###### From: hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:32:16 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <3768EC5B.CBAA9B9E@combox.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.32.81 X-Server-Date: 17 Jun 1999 15:32:15 GMT Mail-Copies-To: never X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs In article <3768EC5B.CBAA9B9E@combox.de>, Tobias Goeller wrote: >If this machine breaks down (it's a 386/33) it will kill me :-)) s/If/When/ I hope you have a replacement strategy. -- Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com The Denim Adept Is this the right room for an argument? SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@127.0.0.1 abuse@127.0.0.1 ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ahoerter@netcom.com Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Message-ID: Organization: Netcom X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:50:36 GMT Lines: 14 Sender: ahoerter@netcom15.netcom.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!ahoerter Fredrick Backman (fredrick.backman@pmail.net) wrote: : Does anyone know what's the longest "uptime" for a computer? I don't have a specific case to mention, but I would imagine that digital phone switches have a strong record of long uptimes. The first 1ESS switch went into service in 1965, and there might even be a few left in service today. -andrew -- "Head transplantation is not theologically inconsistent with any of the Catholic Church's tenets." -- Robert West ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> Reply-To: cmikk@uswest.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: cmikk@uswest.net (Chris Mikkelson) Lines: 12 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:52:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.180.20.57 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 929627528 209.180.20.57 (Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:52:08 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:52:08 CDT Organization: U S WEST Interprise Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!masternews.telia.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!207.225.159.2!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net!not-for-mail In article <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net>, Fredrick Backman wrote: >Does anyone know what's the longest "uptime" for a computer? > >ie. what's the time record in a computer being switched on without a >reboot? I know it's difficult to know for sure but there surely must be >some stories, rumors or facts... I know there's an IBM SP at the University of Minnesota, which claims an uptime of about 30 years. I'm kind of skeptical, though ;-) -Chris ###### From: Tobias Goeller Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:38:52 +0200 Organization: COM.BOX Winet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3768EC5B.CBAA9B9E@combox.de> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: combox.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.7 i686) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!news.bln.de!not-for-mail Fredrick Backman wrote: > > Does anyone know what's the longest "uptime" for a computer? > > ie. what's the time record in a computer being switched on without a > reboot? I know it's difficult to know for sure but there surely must be > some stories, rumors or facts... > I have a linux kernel 1.2.13 running It has now something about four or more years constantly uptime. If this machine breaks down (it's a 386/33) it will kill me :-)) CU Tobias -- COM.BOX WINET \|/ Tobias Goeller ({o.o}) \./ t.goeller@combox.de U ###### From: tsmurphy@students.uiuc.edu (Terry Murphy) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 17 Jun 1999 16:15:58 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Lines: 16 Message-ID: <7kb6vu$mlh$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <3768EC5B.CBAA9B9E@combox.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: ux9.cso.uiuc.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!tsmurphy In article <3768EC5B.CBAA9B9E@combox.de>, Tobias Goeller wrote: >I have a linux kernel 1.2.13 running It has now something about >four or more years constantly uptime. > >If this machine breaks down (it's a 386/33) it will kill me :-)) If your 1.2.13 system says it's been up for four or more years, something is very wrong, because it was released 1-AUG-1995. I wonder if that the Linux developers strategy, since they can't write an OS as stable as VMS, to simply tweak the uptime program so it lies about how long it's been up? That would explain the hype, I guess. -- Terry ###### Message-ID: <376916CB.2A426CEC@gazonk.del> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:39:55 -0400 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 17 Jun 1999 11:43:22 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 ahoerter@netcom.com wrote: > > I don't have a specific case to mention, but I would imagine that > digital phone switches have a strong record of long uptimes. Not necessarily. The phone companies have different priorities from the rest of us. It's just business as usual if they disconnect a thousand calls, but it's a disaster if the same thousand people pick up their phones and can't get dial tone for two minutes. I don't know whether their switches stay up for years at a time, or if they just re-boot really quickly after a crash. ###### From: cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 17 Jun 1999 18:08:30 GMT Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: <7kbdiu$1om$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <3768EC5B.CBAA9B9E@combox.de> <7kb6vu$mlh$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 929646077 nnrp-11:6593 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jun 1999 18:08:30 GMT X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.0 Lines: 51 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.tli.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!localhost!not-for-mail In article <7kb6vu$mlh$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, tsmurphy@students.uiuc.edu (Terry Murphy) writes: > If your 1.2.13 system says it's been up for four or more years, > something is very wrong, because it was released 1-AUG-1995. I wonder > if that the Linux developers strategy, since they can't write an OS as > stable as VMS, to simply tweak the uptime program so it lies about how > long it's been up? That would explain the hype, I guess. With comments like that, you're just asking for a flamewar. FWIW, I've been responsible for Linux systems with many months uptime (11.5 being the record; it stopped when the office closed) and have heard of others who've had it running for several years. I think it's safe to say that if it makes it that far without any problems, it should pretty much go on forever (or at least until 2038 :) The only failures I've seen are with some of the earlier kernels, or inherently unstable variants (ie development kernels or those with odd 3rd party modules installed); the rest of the time, failures are invariably due to duff hardware, although I'm impressed that it has a reticence to panic in such situations compared with some other Unices I've used (although its usefullness in such situations may be curtailed if one of the discs has decided to die; or several of them, in the case of an entire pack of Seagates I was unfortunate enough to have connected) As far as VMS is concerned, in my experience this will range from running forever on decent hardware and with a stable configuration (ie most datacentre installations) although I have seen it crash frequently on smaller machines such as VAXstations (ISTR 9 times out of 10 this was something to do with the display subsystem) I'm actually quite a fan of VMS (it being the first OS I used seriously [second only to whatever it was the Acorn BBC ran]), and should really look into getting a hobbyist's licence sorted out; if only my VAXstation wasn't so bloody noisy (now I know why they were originally supplied with 15-foot long extension cables, so you could plonk the actual system on someone else's desk and make them suffer instead!) Toward the end of my time at DEC, I was participating in their pilot "working from home" project so I borrowed a 3100/40 which lived in my spare bedroom; this tended to be switched on permanently as it had a leased-line connection to DEC's internal net and hosted several VAXnotes conferences. It managed an uptime of about a year before I left, but by that time I was beginning to get fed up with it as not only was it using around 2 - 3 times the electricity of all the other household appliances combined, but the aforementioned noise, as well as the huge amount of heat it generated, made it quite difficult getting to sleep, particularly in the summer. I still have memories of lying awake and hearing transatlantic emails being heralded by the sudden rumbling of its dual RZ56 pack, which seemed to shake the entire house in the early hours! Er, anyway, sorry for rambling; I've just managed to curtail going into great depth about how much better the construction was compared to any PC I've used, etc etc etc... Chris. ###### From: martin@ibert.com (Martin Ibert) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:32:25 GMT Organization: The Seventh Heaven, Berlin, Germany Lines: 23 Message-ID: <376a75ef.3871452@news> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: volterra.home.ibert.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!fu-berlin.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!home.ibert.com!news >In article <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net>, >Fredrick Backman wrote: >>Does anyone know what's the longest "uptime" for a computer? I know that I won't claim the price on this, but at work I run a FreeBSD server that went up sometime in May 1998 (I think it was on the morning of the 19th) when we moved to our current premises. It has survived some power outages by the sheer luck of being plugged into one of the UPS'ed mains sockets (those are, of course, unmarked). It has not just worked well for well over a year, I have installed and upgraded quite a number of applications (it is running two copies of Squid [different versions] which have been upgraded several times, Apache, Smail, IMAP-uw and Hylafax, and more stuff I can't think of right now) on the thing, managed users and done all sorts of mucking about. I am constantly amazed of this lowly machine (it is not folklore-worthy, as I have to admit) that is just doing its job, while the NT servers are booted (scheduled!) at least once a week. -- >> Please visit http://www.ibert.com/ for further information. << ----------------------------------------------------------------- Blind faith in your leaders, or in anything, will get you killed! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Remember the heroes of Tiananmen Square, Beijing, P. R. of China! ###### From: hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:11:01 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376916CB.2A426CEC@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.34.01 X-Server-Date: 18 Jun 1999 04:11:30 GMT Mail-Copies-To: never X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs In article <376916CB.2A426CEC@gazonk.del>, "Foobar T. Clown" wrote: >I don't know whether their switches stay up for years at a time, or if >they just re-boot really quickly after a crash. Or if the production switches are hot-swapped. -- Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com The Denim Adept Is this the right room for an argument? SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@127.0.0.1 abuse@127.0.0.1 ###### From: Scott Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:06:34 -0400 Organization: PETA (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals) Lines: 14 Message-ID: <180619990106344549%scottm25@bigfoot.com> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: 8nASSfvKhZVdraKcEYxRzJ+XsGroICOvtsTINHjwU58= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jun 1999 05:07:35 GMT X-Face: "_p7hm!(`R/h:x.fFi's;ncuxZ`[YALx6^qjs>UnIu!^{.#Fcv'n3?\]tApx6 T%'@]NRNZ3Yy>|*}>.X_BP0KeiXDhQCx" User-Agent: YA-NewsWatcher/4.2.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!scottm25 In article <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com>, Arlin Collins wrote: > I know a guy that claims that his MSWin98 system has > been running almost two weeks... > > (just kidding :) > Of course you're kidding. That would be some sort of record.... :-> -- -- Scott Maxwell - scottm25 (at) bigfoot (dot) com My shrink? I just go to him for refills! ###### From: arlin@metronet.com (Arlin Collins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 18 Jun 1999 01:22:59 GMT Organization: Texas Metronet, Inc Lines: 13 Message-ID: <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.170.106.4 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.netcrusader.net!198.138.0.5!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news-feeds.jump.net!diablo.metronet.com!news.metronet.com!arlin Fredrick Backman (fredrick.backman@pmail.net) wrote: : Does anyone know what's the longest "uptime" for a computer? : ie. what's the time record in a computer being switched on without a : reboot? I know it's difficult to know for sure but there surely must be : some stories, rumors or facts... I know a guy that claims that his MSWin98 system has been running almost two weeks... (just kidding :) ###### From: David Scheidt Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 18 Jun 1999 04:46:42 GMT Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Lines: 17 Message-ID: <7kcivi$sgm$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376916CB.2A426CEC@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.143.40 User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990216 ("Styrofoam") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.1-STABLE (i386)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail Foobar T. Clown wrote: : I don't know whether their switches stay up for years at a time, or if : they just re-boot really quickly after a crash. Bit of both. The switches I have dealings with have not tightly coupled systems. They also tend to have good redundancy, and exhibit fairly soft failure modes. With some work, you can replace just about every component, and not have an o utage. Any given circuit might suffer interruption, but the whole system wouldn 't go down. David scheidt -- dscheidt@enteract.com But I simply can't find it anywhere in me to imagine that someone might want to stick sharp pasta spikes down into his penis. -D.M. Procida ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376A04EE.8075F239@softstar.it> Reply-To: cmikk@uswest.net X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: cmikk@uswest.net (Chris Mikkelson) Lines: 19 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:34:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.180.20.57 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 929712871 209.180.20.57 (Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:34:31 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:34:31 CDT Organization: U S WEST Interprise Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net!not-for-mail In article <376A04EE.8075F239@softstar.it>, Enrico Badella wrote: >Chris Mikkelson wrote: >> I know there's an IBM SP at the University of Minnesota, which >> claims an uptime of about 30 years. I'm kind of skeptical, though ;-) [snip] >What is an IBM SP? If it's what I think probably the figure is something >like a cumulative uptime, 30 machine up for one year ;-) or it is >some sort of 360? An IBM SP is basically a workstation cluster in a big rack with a fast network. It's definitely a cumulative uptime. The cumulative load average can be interesting too. As a matter of fact, I once saw 32-processor SGI Origin 2000 shipped with sendmail configured to refuse delivery at a load average of 25. The normal load on this machine was, well, 30 or so. -Chris ###### From: euphrates@freenet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 18 Jun 1999 20:21:43 GMT Organization: Cable Internet (post doesn't reflect views of Cable Internet) Lines: 21 Message-ID: <7ke9on$c83$1@news1.cableinet.co.uk> References: <7kb6vu$mlh$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.1.153.42 X-Trace: news1.cableinet.co.uk 929737303 12547 212.1.153.42 (18 Jun 1999 20:21:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cableinet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jun 1999 20:21:43 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet-feed2!btnet!easynet-tele!easynet.net!news5.cableinet.net!cableinet-uk!news1.cableinet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1999-06-17 tsmurphy@students.uiuc.edu(TerryMurphy) said: :Tobias Goeller wrote: :>I have a linux kernel 1.2.13 running It has now something about :>four or more years constantly uptime. :>If this machine breaks down (it's a 386/33) it will kill me :-)) :If your 1.2.13 system says it's been up for four or more years, :something is very wrong, because it was released 1-AUG-1995. I :wonder if that the Linux developers strategy, since they can't :write an OS as stable as VMS, to simply tweak the uptime program so :it lies about how long it's been up? That would explain the hype, I :guess. I dunno; almost 4 years up is probably stable enough for my liking. :> Besides, his post made it clear that he couldn't remember the exact figure (or maybe he had to convert it from days on the fly) so perhaps a deep breath is in order here...? -- Communa -- you know soft spoken changes nothing ###### From: msabeln@aol.com (Msabeln) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 19 Jun 1999 04:26:01 GMT References: <180619990106344549%scottm25@bigfoot.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19990619002601.07649.00001463@ng-ck1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Here is my list of machines, from least to most reliable. These are those computer systems with which I have had extensive experience. This is just a rough order-of-magnitude indication of how long a typical machine would stay up without needing a reboot. The format of this list is operating system name, followed by the typical uptime observed. MS Windows 2.x; two hours uptime MS Windows 3.0; three hours Macintosh OS - in the year 1997; three hours MS DOS version 2.x; four hours MS Windows 3.1; six hours MS DOS 3.x, 5.0,6.0; 8 hours Prime UNIX clone; a day or so MS Windows 95; couple of days CPM/80, Z80 processor; about a week MS Windows NT Workstation; a week MS Windows NT Server; a few weeks Apple II OS; a few weeks Silicon Graphics IRIX 4.x and 5.x; many weeks IBM AIX 3.x, 4.x; a bit more than a month VAX/VMS 4.x, through 5.5-1; about a year OpenVMS 5.5-2, 6.x, 7.x; several years OpenVMS is by far the most reliable OS I've worked with; Compaq would be wise to make it open-source sometime in the future (anyone know the Bliss programming language?). I don't have recent Mac experience, sorry, although the new machines look really sharp. I am now working with Linux (Redhat) but don't have enough uptime data, although my server hasn't crashed yet. I use MS Windows NT the most, and it is my OS of choice due to the wide availability of needed applications. These uptimes are based only on my memory and the particular workload that I happened to put on these machines. Your results will vary. ###### From: Juergen Nickelsen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 19 Jun 1999 09:46:17 +0200 Organization: private Lines: 15 Sender: nickel@goting.jn.berlin.snafu.de Message-ID: References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376a75ef.3871452@news> NNTP-Posting-Host: n36-19.berlin.snafu.de X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!goting.jn.berlin.snafu.de!nobody martin@ibert.com (Martin Ibert) writes: > I know that I won't claim the price on this, but at work I run > a FreeBSD server that went up sometime in May 1998 (I think it > was on the morning of the 19th) when we moved to our current > premises. I have similar experience with FreeBSD. At work I have a 486 box as Internet firewall, router, and server for nearly everything that needs access from or to the outside. We have no UPS, so the longest uptime (a few over a hundred days) was marked by two power outages. -- Juergen Nickelsen ###### From: p98mccabe@alltel.net (Micheal H. McCabe) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 19 Jun 1999 13:41:30 GMT Organization: Micheal McCabe Data Systems Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <180619990106344549%scottm25@bigfoot.com> <19990619002601.07649.00001463@ng-ck1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: r-103.52.alltel.net X-Trace: news1.alltel.net 929799690 8537 166.102.103.52 (19 Jun 1999 13:41:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@client.alltel.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jun 1999 13:41:30 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!isdnet!newsfeed.usit.net!nntp.flash.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.central.agis.net!agis!news1.alltel.net!r-103.52.alltel.net!user In article <19990619002601.07649.00001463@ng-ck1.aol.com>, msabeln@aol.com (Msabeln) wrote: > Here is my list of machines, from least to most reliable. These are those > Apple II OS; a few weeks > These uptimes are based only on my memory and the particular workload that I > happened to put on these machines. Your results will vary. My former employer has an Apple //e that I Installed for event logging in 1985 -- In 1993 it was upgraded to control some TEAC logging recorders. Software is in ROM. Aside from power outages and a lightning strike in 1995 that cooked the power supply it hasn't *REQUIRED* a reboot since then. (MTBF 5 years) This count? -- p98mccabe@alltel.net Micheal H, McCabe ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: wtshyman@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Reply-To: wtshyman@NOUCE.mb.sympatico.ca Organization: No Unsolicited Commercial E-Mail, Please ! References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0 Lines: 20 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 17:16:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.200.59.150 X-Complaints-To: admin@mts.net X-Trace: news1.mts.net 929812569 205.200.59.150 (Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:16:09 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:16:09 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.cwix.com!205.200.16.76!news-in.mts.net!news1.mts.net!not-for-mail In <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net>, Fredrick Backman writes: >Does anyone know what's the longest "uptime" for a computer? > >ie. what's the time record in a computer being switched on without a >reboot? I know it's difficult to know for sure but there surely must be >some stories, rumors or facts... > >cheers >Fred Hmm. Define "computer". I expect there's some obscure telemetry bouy bobbing up and down in the ocean somewhere that's been sending out data for many years between visits - or some electrical utility's remote metering device that only got rebooted last week when it was checked for Y2K problems. And I bet the longest-running computer is probably somewhere out near Saturn by now...you can't reach the keyboard to do a "ctrl-alt-del" on a Pioneer. Bill ###### From: bruce@hoult.actrix.gen.nz (Bruce Hoult) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:56:38 +1200 Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376916CB.2A426CEC@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: macinnat.static.star.net.nz X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.clear.net.nz!ihug.co.nz!bruce In article <376916CB.2A426CEC@gazonk.del>, "Foobar T. Clown" wrote: > ahoerter@netcom.com wrote: > > > > I don't have a specific case to mention, but I would imagine that > > digital phone switches have a strong record of long uptimes. > > Not necessarily. The phone companies have different priorities from the > rest of us. It's just business as usual if they disconnect a thousand > calls, but it's a disaster if the same thousand people pick up their > phones and can't get dial tone for two minutes. > > I don't know whether their switches stay up for years at a time, or if > they just re-boot really quickly after a crash. The phone systems I've worked on (NEC NEAX-61E) have a number of different levels of crash, or "phase" as they call them, numbered from "Phase 0.5" on up. No one worries too much about a phase 0.5, and they happen with some non-trivial frequency, but by the time you get to a "phase 3" you're talking several minutes to get it back up, and a serious investigation afterwards. -- Bruce ###### From: uplink@freeuk.com (Dan Ros) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Summary: Maniacal Mumblings X-Homepage: http://www.uplink.freeuk.com X-ICQ-Number: 15212336 Organization: Vandelay Industries Message-ID: <376befbd.374565091@news.freeuk.com> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 9 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:46:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.126.148.72 X-Complaints-To: abuse@freeuk.net X-Trace: nnrp4.clara.net 929821615 212.126.148.72 (Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:46:55 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:46:55 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp4.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail In , wtshyman@mb.sympatico.ca wrote... > And I bet the longest-running computer >is probably somewhere out near Saturn by now...you can't reach the >keyboard to do a "ctrl-alt-del" on a Pioneer. > >Bill Actually they can be rebooted very easily, you simply have to send it the command. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com> Organization: Wizvax Communications, LLC From: multics@wizvax.wizvax.net (Richard Shetron) NNTP-Posting-Host: wizvax.wizvax.net Message-ID: <376c356c.0@news.wizvax.net> Date: 19 Jun 1999 20:27:24 -0500 X-Trace: 19 Jun 1999 20:27:24 -0500, wizvax.wizvax.net Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.wizvax.net!news.wizvax.net!wizvax.wizvax.net!multics In article <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com>, Arlin Collins wrote: >Fredrick Backman (fredrick.backman@pmail.net) wrote: >: Does anyone know what's the longest "uptime" for a computer? > >: ie. what's the time record in a computer being switched on without a >: reboot? I know it's difficult to know for sure but there surely must be >: some stories, rumors or facts... > > > I know a guy that claims that his MSWin98 system has > been running almost two weeks... > > (just kidding :) Wish mine would stay up that long, I'd get more work done. (Trying to convert everything to Linux). ###### From: Fredrick Backman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 22:54:57 +0200 Organization: Telia Internet Services Lines: 41 Message-ID: <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: d2o19.telia.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o19p30.telia.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@internet.telia.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!bignews.mediaways.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!masternews.telia.net!newspost.telia.com!d2o19.telia.com!t6o19p30.telia.com Well it just occured to me that both "computer" and "uptime" are both quite vague, but let's assume the whatis.com definition of computer: http://www.whatis.com/computer.htm (not saying this is the best definition, but at least it's better than nothing) Good point about computers onboard spacecrafts! Is there a computer onboard Voyager, you know the one with the recordings of typical Earth sounds and a message to ET? Wouldn't it be hilarious if we could ping such a computer (in an UNIX/Internet-like manner)? Imagine: # ping voyager.space.nasa.gov (after couple of weeks waiting time) voyager.space.nasa.gov is alive :-) Anyway, do you reckon there are any documentation or other proof of what computer is having the longest uptime then? Fred wtshyman@mb.sympatico.ca wrote: > In <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net>, Fredrick Backman writes: > >Does anyone know what's the longest "uptime" for a computer? > > > >ie. what's the time record in a computer being switched on without a > >reboot? I know it's difficult to know for sure but there surely must be > >some stories, rumors or facts... > > > >cheers > >Fred > > Hmm. Define "computer". I expect there's some obscure telemetry bouy > bobbing up and down in the ocean somewhere that's been sending out > data for many years between visits - or some electrical utility's remote > metering device that only got rebooted last week when it was checked > for Y2K problems. And I bet the longest-running computer > is probably somewhere out near Saturn by now...you can't reach the > keyboard to do a "ctrl-alt-del" on a Pioneer. > > Bill ###### From: bbreynolds@aol.com (BBReynolds) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 20 Jun 1999 02:21:34 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Message-ID: <19990619222134.27700.00000691@ngol08.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Longest I've had running was an IBM Series/1 running EDX, ran without manual reboot from late 1983 to early 1995 except for a power outage which outlasted the UPS battery time, c. 1991 (as the system was set for auto-IPL, it restarted itself when the power came back up). -- -- Bruce B. Reynolds, Systems Consultant: Founder of Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL: Sweeping Up Behind Data Processing Dinosaurs ###### From: "Adam Atkinson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 20 Jun 99 08:45:30 +0000 Organization: Collegio Pierpaoli, Montaguzzo Lines: 22 Message-ID: <889.840T1504T5254021ghira@mistral.co.uk> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: d3-s19-179-telehouse.mistral.co.uk X-Trace: starburst.uk.insnet.net 929864963 2192 195.184.228.179 (20 Jun 1999 07:49:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@starburst.uk.insnet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jun 1999 07:49:23 GMT X-No-Ahbou: yes X-Newsreader: THOR 2.6 (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!insnet.net!not-for-mail On 19-Jun-99 20:54:57, Fredrick Backman said: ># ping voyager.space.nasa.gov >(after couple of weeks waiting time) >voyager.space.nasa.gov is alive It wouldn't take as long as that. Round-trip time to Voyager (if you have a line of sight connection) will be under 24 hours for the next couple of decades at least. And NASA is using something tcp/ip-like on future space missions - rummage around on their web pages for information on TP and NP. They interoperate with tcp/ip but have a few changes (maximum packet life in tcp/ip is 4.5 hours). NP allows packets to be sent via multiple interfaces simultaneously. various other nice features for extreme environments. -- Adam Atkinson (ghira@mistral.co.uk) I have a spelling chequer. It came with my pea sea. It plane lee marques for my revue miss steaks eye can knot sea. ###### From: uplink@freeuk.com (Dan Ros) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Summary: Maniacal Mumblings X-Homepage: http://www.uplink.freeuk.com X-ICQ-Number: 15212336 Organization: Vandelay Industries Message-ID: <376cbb43.43025043@news.freeuk.com> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:26:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.126.147.132 X-Complaints-To: abuse@freeuk.net X-Trace: nnrp3.clara.net 929874410 212.126.147.132 (Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:26:50 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:26:50 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp3.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail In <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com>, arlin@metronet.com (Arlin Collins) wrote... > I know a guy that claims that his MSWin98 system has > been running almost two weeks... > > (just kidding :) There is a old win95 system here that is used for basic spreadsheets and WP, and that has been known to stay up for a month at a time. I dont know why it was rebooted, it was possibly just shutdown for a weekend for a change. All I have are the boot logs. ###### From: Fredrick Backman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:09:08 +0200 Organization: Telia Internet Services Lines: 28 Message-ID: <376CAFB4.5A2A835B@pmail.net> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> <889.840T1504T5254021ghira@mistral.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: d2o19.telia.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o19p20.telia.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@internet.telia.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!masternews.telia.net!newspost.telia.com!d2o19.telia.com!t6o19p20.telia.com Then it's just a matter of time before extraterrestials start hacking the machines :-) Who knows, SETI might just get a surprise: "Lamerz on Earth! We r00ted Voyager VII! Heh heh heh" Adam Atkinson wrote: > On 19-Jun-99 20:54:57, Fredrick Backman said: > > ># ping voyager.space.nasa.gov > >(after couple of weeks waiting time) > >voyager.space.nasa.gov is alive > > It wouldn't take as long as that. Round-trip time to Voyager (if you > have a line of sight connection) will be under 24 hours for the next > couple of decades at least. > > And NASA is using something tcp/ip-like on future space missions - > rummage around on their web pages for information on TP and NP. They > interoperate with tcp/ip but have a few changes (maximum packet life > in tcp/ip is 4.5 hours). NP allows packets to be sent via multiple > interfaces simultaneously. various other nice features for extreme > environments. > > -- > Adam Atkinson (ghira@mistral.co.uk) > I have a spelling chequer. It came with my pea sea. It plane lee > marques for my revue miss steaks eye can knot sea. ###### From: prs@gol.com (Peter Stephenson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Message-ID: <376fe19c.14250591@nnrp.gol.com> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:46:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.216.42.151 X-Complaints-To: abuse@gol.com X-Trace: nnrp.gol.com 929882774 203.216.42.151 (Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:46:14 JST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:46:14 JST Organization: Global Online Japan Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsfeed.gol.com!203.216.70.8.MISMATCH!POSTED.nnrp.gol.com!not-for-mail I remember a thread on one of the demon groups (years ago) about how long it took to reboot under different OS. It developed into a sily argument between different PC OS & Unix enthusiasts. Then someone wrote in to say how primitive they felt - their Vax's took a whole morning to restart. "I remember it well" he said "it was six years ago when they upgraded the power system". Certainly shut us up. On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:47:47 +0200, Fredrick Backman wrote: >Does anyone know what's the longest "uptime" for a computer? > >ie. what's the time record in a computer being switched on without a >reboot? I know it's difficult to know for sure but there surely must be >some stories, rumors or facts... > >cheers >Fred ###### From: "Jack Peacock" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 13:36:59 -0700 Organization: Simco Lines: 20 Message-ID: <929910952.084.71@news.remarQ.com> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com> <376cbb43.43025043@news.freeuk.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.168.124.145 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:35:52 GMT X-Trace: 929910952.084.71 S8PRG1HYA7C91CFA8C qube-01.us-ca.remarq.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nuq-peer.news.verio.net!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!corp.remarQ.com!not-for-mail Alexander Bochmann wrote in message ... >On Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:26:50 GMT, Dan Ros wrote: > > > There is a old win95 system here that is used for basic spreadsheets and WP, > > and that has been known to stay up for a month at a time. I dont know why it > > was rebooted, it was possibly just shutdown for a weekend for a change. > >Wasn't there a report some time ago that Win95 will crash after an uptime >of 48 days or something because of a bug in some routine that uses this >value? You can probably find more it when searching through the advocacy >newsgroups ;) > Yes it does (there is a fix), it happened to me on a W95 system running a web camera. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ab@infra.de (Alexander Bochmann) Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Sender: news@t.infra.de (news) References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com> <376cbb43.43025043@news.freeuk.com> User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.6 (UNIX) Organization: traveller - Galaxis' homebase Message-ID: X-Nntp-Posting-Host: localhost Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 15:49:52 GMT Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!blackbush.xlink.net!freinet.de!charon.t.infra.de!ab On Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:26:50 GMT, Dan Ros wrote: > There is a old win95 system here that is used for basic spreadsheets and WP, > and that has been known to stay up for a month at a time. I dont know why it > was rebooted, it was possibly just shutdown for a weekend for a change. Wasn't there a report some time ago that Win95 will crash after an uptime of 48 days or something because of a bug in some routine that uses this value? You can probably find more it when searching through the advocacy newsgroups ;) Alex. ###### From: drushel@apk.net (Richard Drushel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 20 Jun 1999 21:11:14 GMT Organization: Coleco ADAM Online, Ltd. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com> <376cbb43.43025043@news.freeuk.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: junior.apk.net X-Trace: plonk.apk.net 929913074 19746 207.54.158.20 (20 Jun 1999 21:11:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@apk.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jun 1999 21:11:14 GMT X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!isdnet!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.fast.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!dfw.uu.net!chi.uu.net!plonk.apk.net!news.apk.net!not-for-mail Alexander Bochmann (ab@infra.de) spake unto the ether: : Wasn't there a report some time ago that Win95 will crash after an uptime : of 48 days or something because of a bug in some routine that uses this : value? You can probably find more it when searching through the advocacy : newsgroups ;) I could believe this since "48 days" is close to 2^32 milliseconds. (49 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes, 47.296 seconds, actually.) Here at CWRU, there is some network equipment which has been going down at this interval; suspec- ted is a firmware bug dealing with a 32-bit counter rollover. *Rich* -- Richard F. Drushel, Ph.D. | "Aplysia californica" is your taxonomic Department of Biology, Slug Division | nomenclature. / A slug, by any other Case Western Reserve University | name, is still a slug by nature. Cleveland, Ohio 44106-7080 U.S.A. | -- apologies to Data, "Ode to Spot" ###### From: J.Hendrickx@maw.kun.nl (John Hendrickx) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:37:43 +0200 Organization: Universitair Centrum Informatievoorziening, The Netherlands Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com> <180619990106344549%scottm25@bigfoot.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ib056.extern.kun.nl X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.algonet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!surfnet.nl!barba.uci.kun.nl!not-for-mail In article <180619990106344549%scottm25@bigfoot.com>, scottm25@bigfoot.com says... > In article <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com>, Arlin Collins > wrote: > > > I know a guy that claims that his MSWin98 system has > > been running almost two weeks... > > > > (just kidding :) > > > Of course you're kidding. That would be some sort of record.... :-> > Maybe the guy meant the time between full re-installs? ###### From: t_account@hotmail.com (PiMan) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Message-ID: <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kc71j$3jr$1@news.metronet.com> <376cbb43.43025043@news.freeuk.com> <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 32 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:52:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.66.145.39 X-Trace: newsgate.direct.ca 929926419 216.66.145.39 (Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:53:39 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:53:39 PDT Organization: Canada Internet Direct, Inc. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsgate.direct.ca!not-for-mail From the MSDN Library documentation of timeGetTime(): Note that the value returned by the timeGetTime function is a DWORD value. The return value wraps around to 0 every 2^32 milliseconds, which is about 49.71 days.This can cause problems in code that directly uses the timeGetTime return value in computations, particularly where the value is used to control code execution. You should always use the difference between two timeGetTime return values in computations. On 20 Jun 1999 21:11:14 GMT, drushel@apk.net (Richard Drushel) wrote: >Alexander Bochmann (ab@infra.de) spake unto the ether: > >: Wasn't there a report some time ago that Win95 will crash after an uptime >: of 48 days or something because of a bug in some routine that uses this >: value? You can probably find more it when searching through the advocacy >: newsgroups ;) > > I could believe this since "48 days" is close to 2^32 milliseconds. >(49 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes, 47.296 seconds, actually.) Here at CWRU, there >is some network equipment which has been going down at this interval; suspec- >ted is a firmware bug dealing with a 32-bit counter rollover. > > > *Rich* >-- >Richard F. Drushel, Ph.D. | "Aplysia californica" is your taxonomic >Department of Biology, Slug Division | nomenclature. / A slug, by any other >Case Western Reserve University | name, is still a slug by nature. >Cleveland, Ohio 44106-7080 U.S.A. | -- apologies to Data, "Ode to Spot" ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 18 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 03:44:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.212.106.44 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 929936666 141.212.106.44 (Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:44:26 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:44:26 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit In article <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca>, PiMan wrote: >From the MSDN Library documentation of timeGetTime(): >Note that the value returned by the timeGetTime function is a DWORD >value. The return value wraps around to 0 every 2^32 milliseconds, >which is about 49.71 days.This can cause problems in code that >directly uses the timeGetTime return value in computations, >particularly where the value is used to control code execution. You >should always use the difference between two timeGetTime return values >in computations. HUH? So what happens if the interval you're timing spans the 49.71- day rollover? Or do they plan to deal with that by having something else helpfully bring down Lose95 long before it gets to that much uptime? -- Sergej Roytman ###### From: matt@noggin.thenog.net (Matthew Gates) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:49:59 +0100 Organization: RemarQ http://www.remarQ.com Lines: 33 Message-ID: <7pckk7.sf2.ln@noggin.thenog.net> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.2.137.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: 929938123 FA6OEGRHS8904C302C uk21.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarq.com X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nuq-peer.news.verio.net!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!noggin.thenog.net!nobody In article <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net>, Fredrick Backman writes: > Good point about computers onboard spacecrafts! > Is there a computer onboard Voyager, you know > the one with the recordings of typical Earth > sounds and a message to ET? Wouldn't it be > hilarious if we could ping such a computer (in an > UNIX/Internet-like manner)? Imagine: > # ping voyager.space.nasa.gov > (after couple of weeks waiting time) > voyager.space.nasa.gov is alive > :-) (BTW, great thread!) I think voyager was turned off some years ago. I don't remember any dates, but I know one of the last things it was asked to do was turn back and take a picture of Earth. Read Carl Sagan's book "Pale Blue Dot", it's great. The light of humanity dimmed when he passed away. :-( Longest uptime of a machine I've used directly and actually asked about 9 months. I guess after a year or so hardware started to become an issue so linux isn't likely to steal the prize here. How reliable are AS/400s? -Matt ###### From: matt@noggin.thenog.net (Matthew Gates) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:52:11 +0100 Organization: RemarQ http://www.remarQ.com Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376fe19c.14250591@nnrp.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.2.137.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: 929938126 FA6OEGRHS8904C302C uk21.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarq.com X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nuq-peer.news.verio.net!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!noggin.thenog.net!nobody In article <376fe19c.14250591@nnrp.gol.com>, prs@gol.com (Peter Stephenson) writes: > I remember a thread on one of the demon groups (years ago) about how > long it took to reboot under different OS. It developed into a sily > argument between different PC OS & Unix enthusiasts. Then someone > wrote in to say how primitive they felt - their Vax's took a whole > morning to restart. "I remember it well" he said "it was six years > ago when they upgraded the power system". > > Certainly shut us up. > I guess an important consideration should be the boot-time to boot-frequency ratio. A measure of potential downtime in a continuous use scenario. -Matt ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ab@infra.de (Alexander Bochmann) Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Sender: news@t.infra.de (news) References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> <7pckk7.sf2.ln@noggin.thenog.net> User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.6 (UNIX) Organization: traveller - Galaxis' homebase Message-ID: X-Nntp-Posting-Host: localhost Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:06:24 GMT Lines: 10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!bignews.mediaways.net!blackbush.xlink.net!freinet.de!charon.t.infra.de!ab On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:49:59 +0100, Matthew Gates wrote: > I think voyager was turned off some years ago. I Pioneer was turned off, but the last time I looked at the NASA websites, they had some 30-year plan to make the remaining instruments on the Voyagers do something usefull well into the 2020s or so... Alex. ###### From: "Mike Duffy" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:36:12 -0400 Lines: 28 Message-ID: <7kleuo$181$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <180619990106344549%scottm25@bigfoot.com> <19990619002601.07649.00001463@ng-ck1.aol.com> X-Trace: fHRhgQ+o88DO82SVJuJW0RKE17KJ4poNYwkG+a8bt9U= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jun 1999 13:33:12 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!newsfeed.ecrc.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail > >VAX/VMS 4.x, through 5.5-1; about a year >OpenVMS 5.5-2, 6.x, 7.x; several years > >OpenVMS is by far the most reliable OS I've worked with. > It's interesting to note that in late V4 and early V5 of VMS was when clustering and SMP support were being introduced to VMS. In fact, V4 and V5 were less reliable than V3, but of course they had a much more difficult job to do. Adding multiple processors and clustering, and still staying up for a year is not too shabby. Also, the bug which often took down VMS at that time was an accidental overflow into the "cluster node ID" area of the "process identification" once enough processes had been created since boot. This typically took several months, and was therefore overlooked in testing. -Mike Duffy OpenVMS TCP/IP engineering Process Software Corp. ###### Message-ID: <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:06:33 -0400 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 21 Jun 1999 11:10:06 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 Sergej Roytman wrote: > > HUH? So what happens if the interval you're timing spans the 49.71- > day [32 bits worth of milliseconds] rollover? Easy, just do this: unsigned long start_time; unsigned long end_time; unsigned long time_diff; start_time = read_the_clock(); ...time passes... end_time = read_the_clock(); time_diff = end_time - start_time; If the rollover occurs between the start and the end of the timed interval, the subtraction will overflow, but it will give you the CORRECT ANSWER! Try it! ###### Message-ID: <376E5553.4FFE5974@gazonk.del> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:08:03 -0400 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> <7pckk7.sf2.ln@noggin.thenog.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 21 Jun 1999 11:11:36 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 Alexander Bochmann wrote: > > Pioneer was turned off, but ... Did they really turn it off? Or did they just stop listening to it? ###### From: benh@lsl.co.uk (Ben Hutchings) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 21 Jun 1999 13:02:15 GMT Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd. Message-ID: <7kld4n$ctl@relay.lsl.co.uk> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> <889.840T1504T5254021ghira@mistral.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.9.200.110 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 16 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.theplanet.net!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!warm.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.lsl.co.uk!benh Adam Atkinson (ghira@mistral.co.uk) wrote: : And NASA is using something tcp/ip-like on future space missions - : rummage around on their web pages for information on TP and NP. They : interoperate with tcp/ip but have a few changes (maximum packet life : in tcp/ip is 4.5 hours). IP datagram lifetimes are measured in seconds, and are specified by an unsigned byte in the header. Therefore the maximum lifetime that can be specified is 4.25 minutes. Since it is an integer, the time taken in transit between hosts/routers is always rounded up to the next second before it is subtracted from it. -- Any opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of Laser-Scan. ###### From: dpeschel@u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 21 Jun 1999 18:15:28 GMT Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Lines: 27 Message-ID: <7klvg0$iam$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: saul1.u.washington.edu X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 929988928 18774 (None) 140.142.17.38 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: dpeschel Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!dpeschel In article <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del>, Foobar T. Clown wrote: >Sergej Roytman wrote: >> HUH? So what happens if the interval you're timing spans the 49.71- >> day [32 bits worth of milliseconds] rollover? > >Easy, just do this: > > unsigned long start_time; > unsigned long end_time; > unsigned long time_diff; > > start_time = read_the_clock(); > ...time passes... > end_time = read_the_clock(); > time_diff = end_time - start_time; > >If the rollover occurs between the start and the end of the timed >interval, the subtraction will overflow, but it will give you the >CORRECT ANSWER! But what if the duration of the difference itself is longer than 49.71 days? That may be what Sergej meant. Your code can't deal with that, or a number of other things (like two rollovers in the same interval). -- Derek ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: ab@infra.de (Alexander Bochmann) Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Sender: news@t.infra.de (news) References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> <7pckk7.sf2.ln@noggin.thenog.net> <376E5553.4FFE5974@gazonk.del> User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.6 (UNIX) Organization: traveller - Galaxis' homebase Message-ID: X-Nntp-Posting-Host: localhost Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 18:57:38 GMT Lines: 26 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!blackbush.xlink.net!freinet.de!charon.t.infra.de!ab On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:08:03 -0400, Foobar T. Clown wrote: > Alexander Bochmann wrote: > > Pioneer was turned off, but ... > Did they really turn it off? Or did they just stop listening to it? Ok, I was incorrect ;) http://spaceprojects.arc.nasa.gov/Space_Projects/pioneer/PNhome.html [Pioneer 10] The mission formally ended on 31 March 1997 when funding ended in favor of more scientifically productive Heliospheric missions. However, a waiver was given to operate Pioneer 10 as part of the Lunar Prospector controller training program as long as other NASA missions were not interfered with. Pioneer 10 has continued at a much reduced activity level under those guidelines. [Pioneer 11] The Pioneer 11 Mission ended on 30 September 1995, when the last transmission from the spacecraft was received. Its electrical power source exhausted, the spacecraft could no longer operate any of its scientific instruments, nor point its antenna toward Earth. Voyager current status is at http://vraptor.jpl.nasa.gov/ Alex. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 21 Jun 1999 19:00:40 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet5.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!129.250.35.146!iad-peer.news.verio.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!news.frontiernet.net!xcski.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 "Foobar T. Clown" (fubar@gazonk.del) writes: > Sergej Roytman wrote: >> >> HUH? So what happens if the interval you're timing spans the 49.71- >> day [32 bits worth of milliseconds] rollover? > > Easy, just do this: > > unsigned long start_time; > unsigned long end_time; > unsigned long time_diff; Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> Organization: Plethora . Net - More net, less spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Lines: 27 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:21:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net X-Trace: ptah.visi.com 929996470 205.166.146.8 (Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:21:10 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:21:10 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!not-for-mail In article <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >> Easy, just do this: >> unsigned long start_time; >> unsigned long end_time; >> unsigned long time_diff; > Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? 6.1.2.5 Types ... four /signed integer types/ ... long int ... ... for each of the signed integer types, there is a corresponding unsigned type ... and then if you read the forward reference in 6.5.2, it becomes clear that 'long' is a synonym for 'long int'. HTH. HAND. -s -- Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/ Visit my new ISP --- More Net, Less Spam! ###### From: "Andrew McLaren" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> <7pckk7.sf2.ln@noggin.thenog.net> Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: <7Uob3.13719$PN5.35692@newsfeeds.bigpond.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:58:21 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.134.109.241 X-Trace: newsfeeds.bigpond.com 929962627 139.134.109.241 (Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:57:07 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:57:07 EST Organization: Telstra BigPond Internet Services (http://www.bigpond.com) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!newsfeeds.bigpond.com!not-for-mail (Great thread, btw!) I suspect the Series/1 entry is the winner. I have a AS/400 under my desk at work and, unlike the 25 or so NT Servers that just keep on hummin', I have to reboot the AS/400 every couple of days!! But I think it's a dud firmware, not an accurate reflection of OS/400 :-) Last week I spoke to a customer who has to reboot their mainframe every few days, due to some obscure memory leak in CICS!!! (or at least, that's what they thought it was ... more likely bad systems programming I'd say ....) Matthew Gates wrote in message news:7pckk7.sf2.ln@noggin.thenog.net... > In article <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net>, > Fredrick Backman > writes: > > > UNIX/Internet-like manner)? Imagine: > > # ping voyager.space.nasa.gov > > (after couple of weeks waiting time) > > voyager.space.nasa.gov is alive > > :-) > > (BTW, great thread!) > > linux isn't likely to steal the prize here. How > reliable are AS/400s? > > -Matt ###### From: "Adam Atkinson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 21 Jun 99 21:07:45 +0000 Organization: Collegio Pierpaoli, Montaguzzo Lines: 22 Message-ID: <863.841T2262T12674675ghira@mistral.co.uk> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> <889.840T1504T5254021ghira@mistral.co.uk> <7kld4n$ctl@relay.lsl.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: d3-s24-184-telehouse.mistral.co.uk X-Trace: starburst.uk.insnet.net 929995434 7376 195.184.228.184 (21 Jun 1999 20:03:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@starburst.uk.insnet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jun 1999 20:03:54 GMT X-No-Ahbou: yes X-Newsreader: THOR 2.6 (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!insnet.net!not-for-mail On 21-Jun-99 13:02:15, Ben Hutchings said: >: And NASA is using something tcp/ip-like on future space missions - >: rummage around on their web pages for information on TP and NP. They >: interoperate with tcp/ip but have a few changes (maximum packet life >: in tcp/ip is 4.5 hours). > >IP datagram lifetimes are measured in seconds, and are specified by an >unsigned byte in the header. Time To Live was originally specified as being in seconds but everyone implements it as a hop count, IIRC. I think the 4.5 hour thing comes from the TCP specs, not those for IP. -- Adam Atkinson (ghira@mistral.co.uk) "You know, I've gone to a lot of psychics, and they've told me a lot of different things, but not one of them has ever told me 'You are an undercover policewoman here to arrest me.'" ###### From: "Adam Atkinson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 21 Jun 99 21:20:51 +0000 Organization: Collegio Pierpaoli, Montaguzzo Lines: 30 Message-ID: <1244.841T2586T12805499ghira@mistral.co.uk> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> <889.840T1504T5254021ghira@mistral.co.uk> <7kld4n$ctl@relay.lsl.co.uk> <863.841T2262T12674675ghira@mistral.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: d3-s27-187-telehouse.mistral.co.uk X-Trace: starburst.uk.insnet.net 929996238 7727 195.184.228.187 (21 Jun 1999 20:17:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@starburst.uk.insnet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jun 1999 20:17:18 GMT X-No-Ahbou: yes X-Newsreader: THOR 2.6 (Amiga;TCP/IP) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!remarQ-uK!remarQ.com!supernews.com!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!insnet.net!not-for-mail On 21-Jun-99 21:07:45, Adam Atkinson said: >I think the 4.5 hour thing comes from the TCP specs, not those for IP. I looked into this a few months ago. Here's something from some notes I made: consider the following extract from RFC793: "When new connections are created, an initial sequence number (ISN) generator is employed which selects a new 32 bit ISN. The generator is bound to a (possibly fictitious) 32 bit clock whose low order bit is incremented roughly every 4 microseconds. Thus, the ISN cycles approximately every 4.55 hours. Since we assume that segments will stay in the network no more than the Maximum Segment Lifetime (MSL) and that the MSL is less than 4.55 hours we can reasonably assume that ISN's will be unique." In an interplanetary IP network, we can no longer reasonably assume that segments stay in the network for less than 4.55 hours. (As Stevens points out on page 243 of vol1, though, in the real world the lifetime of IP packets depends on a hop count, not a period of time, as the TTL field is always decremented by 1 when a packet passes through a router.) -- Adam Atkinson (ghira@mistral.co.uk) If I were a bumble bee Z would be a U.F.D. ###### From: Tom Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:25:59 +0100 Organization: None whatsoever Lines: 21 Message-ID: <376E9FD7.9BF90DFF@ncl.ac.uk> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: black44.ncl.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!news.ncl.ac.uk!not-for-mail "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? I think 'unsigned long' is part of ANSI C. Certainly, it has been present on all the C compilers I've ever used, even really dodgy pre-ANSI ones on the Atari ST. I may be wrong about the ANSI bit though. ('long' is a long integer. Its size is greater than or equal to the size of 'int'. (You can also say "long int", but if you just say "long" the int is inferred.) 'unsigned' is a modifier that may be applied to any of the integer data types in order to make them unsigned, the default being for signed integers. I have a sneaking suspicion you know this though...?) Anyway, MSVC++ (v5 at least) does C++, or at least some version of it with rather dodgy variable scoping rules. -- --Tom this space filled with | this space not filled with this space filled this intentionally | with this intentionally unintentionally ###### From: Fredrick Backman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:00:30 +0200 Organization: Telia Internet Services Lines: 38 Message-ID: <376E99DE.1A8AA890@pmail.net> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: d2o19.telia.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t1o19p5.telia.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@internet.telia.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!masternews.telia.net!newspost.telia.com!d2o19.telia.com!t1o19p5.telia.com unsigned is a qualifier that you can use in combination with a couple of datatypes. unsigned (and signed) can be used with integers regardless if they are "normal" short int or long int. unsigned means the variable can have values only >= 0, while signed means it can have negative values too (it's using one bit as the indicator of whether the number is negative or not). uhh..let's talk numbers: (Assuming a long is 32 bits) 0 <= unsigned long < 4294967296 while -2147483648 <= signed long <2147483647 (similarly, assuming an int, or short, is 16 bits) 0<= unsigned int < 65535 -32768 <= signed < 32767 Correct me if I'm wrong :-) Fred BTW, unsigned can also be used with char.. "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: > "Foobar T. Clown" (fubar@gazonk.del) writes: > > Sergej Roytman wrote: > >> > >> HUH? So what happens if the interval you're timing spans the 49.71- > >> day [32 bits worth of milliseconds] rollover? > > > > Easy, just do this: > > > > unsigned long start_time; > > unsigned long end_time; > > unsigned long time_diff; > > Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? ###### From: korpela@islay.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 21 Jun 1999 22:38:45 GMT Organization: Cal Berkeley-- Space Sciences Lab Lines: 23 Message-ID: <7kmetl$ldp$1@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376E9FD7.9BF90DFF@ncl.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: islay.ssl.berkeley.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!agate!islay.ssl.berkeley.edu!korpela In article <376E9FD7.9BF90DFF@ncl.ac.uk>, Tom wrote: >"Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: >> Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? > >('long' is a long integer. Its size is greater than or equal to the size >of 'int'. (You can also say "long int", but if you just say "long" the >int is inferred.) 'unsigned' is a modifier that may be applied to any of >the integer data types in order to make them unsigned, the default being >for signed integers. With the important exception of "char" which is an integer data type of implementation defined signedness. Given enough time C will become as complex as the english language. Eric -- Eric Korpela | An object at rest can never be korpela@ssl.berkeley.edu | stopped. Click for home page. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 22 Jun 1999 00:28:33 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 18 Message-ID: <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet5.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!209.130.129.214!nntp.frontiernet.net!news.frontiernet.net!xcski.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Peter Seebach (seebs@plethora.net) writes: > In article <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, > Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >>> Easy, just do this: > >>> unsigned long start_time; >>> unsigned long end_time; >>> unsigned long time_diff; > >> Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? > > 6.1.2.5 Types You didn't answer the question. How many bits, and what happpens when an operation is performed upon those bits _as defined in the C language_ {ROTFL} ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 22 Jun 1999 00:41:52 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 30 Message-ID: <7kmm4g$cmv@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376E9FD7.9BF90DFF@ncl.ac.uk> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet5.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.frontiernet.net!news.frontiernet.net!xcski.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Tom (T.W.Seddon@ncl.ac.uk) writes: > "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: >> Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? > > I think 'unsigned long' is part of ANSI C. Certainly, it has been > present on all the C compilers I've ever used, even really dodgy > pre-ANSI ones on the Atari ST. I may be wrong about the ANSI bit though. I have a copy of the K&R ANSI C book. It doesn't define 'int' nor 'long int', nor 'unsigned long int'. > > ('long' is a long integer. Its size is greater than or equal to the size > of 'int'. (You can also say "long int", but if you just say "long" the > int is inferred.) 'unsigned' is a modifier that may be applied to any of > the integer data types in order to make them unsigned, the default being > for signed integers. I have a sneaking suspicion you know this > though...?) I declare my erect penis to be long. |<------------ this is 10 inches ----------->| No wonder women have trouble parking cars without dinging the rest of the cars in the area. ==> B-) <== When C has a language definition anywhere near as developed as PL/1 then I'll start taking it seriously. Til then, it's a joke. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7klvg0$iam$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 27 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 04:37:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.212.106.44 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 930026276 141.212.106.44 (Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:37:56 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:37:56 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit In article <7klvg0$iam$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, Derek Peschel wrote: >In article <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del>, >Foobar T. Clown wrote: >>Sergej Roytman wrote: >>> HUH? So what happens if the interval you're timing spans the 49.71- >>> day [32 bits worth of milliseconds] rollover? >>Easy, just do this: >> >> [code with subtraction of u_longs, with overflow ignored, snipped] >> >>If the rollover occurs between the start and the end of the timed >>interval, the subtraction will overflow, but it will give you the >>CORRECT ANSWER! >But what if the duration of the difference itself is longer than 49.71 days? >That may be what Sergej meant. Nope. I admit that it wasn't. I'm doing stuff that times short intervals, but does it often, right now, and I wondered what would happen if such an interval straddled the rollover. I had not thought of the technique (trick?) described, and will now add it to my list of neat hacks. Lose95 staying up for nearly 100 days... interesting concept... -- Sergej Roytman ###### From: Giles Todd Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 22 Jun 1999 04:41:58 +0200 Organization: None Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> Reply-To: gt@bofh.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lart.bofh.org X-Trace: zonnetje.NL.net 930024904 14688 212.136.214.115 (22 Jun 1999 04:15:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@nl.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jun 1999 04:15:04 GMT X-Archive: No X-No-Archive: Yes X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.online.be!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.amsterdam.nl.net!sun4nl!zonnetje.nl.net!lart!nobody ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: > Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? Section 3.1.2.5 of ANSI X3.159-1989. Giles. -- Saxo cere comminuit brum. ###### From: brianb1224@aol.com (BrianB1224) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 22 Jun 1999 05:50:41 GMT References: <7pckk7.sf2.ln@noggin.thenog.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19990622015041.01374.00004180@ng-ch1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail This sounds really stupid but I thought to throw it out there. During the last moon landing the moon rover (aka moon automobile) had its own power and satellite system. It was turned off manually at the end of the mission. It would be kinda intriguing to do the math for point of sight to the rover or any of the other instruments to see if they are still working. See how old moonbase is doing. Kinda like a moon-cam shot. ###### From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 22 Jun 1999 06:25:03 GMT Organization: Daedalus Consulting Lines: 24 Message-ID: <930032702.609397@estelle.paradise.net.nz> References: <180619990106344549%scottm25@bigfoot.com> <19990619002601.07649.00001463@ng-ck1.aol.com> <7kleuo$181$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: estelle.paradise.net.nz X-Trace: titan.xtra.co.nz 930032703 4145662 203.96.152.5 (22 Jun 1999 06:25:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jun 1999 06:25:03 GMT Cache-Post-Path: estelle.paradise.net.nz!unknown@p16-cable.paradise.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3b4 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!news.netgate.net.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!don In article <7kleuo$181$1@autumn.news.rcn.net>, Mike Duffy wrote: >It's interesting to note that in late V4 and early V5 of VMS was >when clustering and SMP support were being introduced to VMS. VMS V4 did not (with the possible exception of internal test versions) support any form of SMP. ASMP was supported from V3.something (I think) for the 11/782 and later multiprocessors. V5.0 introduced SMP (and owners of 8250s and 8350s did rejoice). Clustering, IIRC, came out with V4.0. >In fact, V4 and V5 were less reliable than V3, but of course they >had a much more difficult job to do. Adding multiple processors >and clustering, and still staying up for a year is not too shabby. Lots of VMS systems weren't in clusters and weren't multiprocessors. I always found it was the minor release that showed how stable the thing was. V4.7 was *very* stable. So was V5.4-2. V5.0 was, well, let's not go there. -- don ###### From: "Mike Duffy" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:06:34 -0400 Lines: 46 Message-ID: <7ko1j4$mn3$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <180619990106344549%scottm25@bigfoot.com> <19990619002601.07649.00001463@ng-ck1.aol.com> <7kleuo$181$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <930032702.609397@estelle.paradise.net.nz> X-Trace: gLX8ycZJ9c6oVva4UDuK0faTPfSfYgSO2AFgEmvljhA= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jun 1999 13:03:32 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail > >VMS V4 did not (with the possible exception of internal test versions) >support any form of SMP. ASMP was supported from V3.something (I think) >for the 11/782 and later multiprocessors. V5.0 introduced SMP (and >owners of 8250s and 8350s did rejoice). > >Clustering, IIRC, came out with V4.0. > You're right; I was lumping the features and versions together for brevity. > >Lots of VMS systems weren't in clusters and weren't multiprocessors. >I always found it was the minor release that showed how stable the >thing was. V4.7 was *very* stable. So was V5.4-2. V5.0 was, well, >let's not go there. > Thanks. I had not taken into account users who had not made use of these features. They should very well have enjoyed longer uptime as a result. I happened to work at a site which put up a 6-node cluster as soon as it was available, as well as the (2-CPU) 8800, which later became the 8820 with V5. We got little moulded numbers to replace the ones on the cabinet. It's the only time my hardware model changed as a result of a software upgrade :) And yes, we went straight from 4.7A to 5.1, only pausing for the mandatory boot at 5.0. I didn't mean to imply that any VMS version was "unstable". (You won't find a bigger VMS proponent anywhere). I just meant "compared to other VMS versions". 4.6, 4.7 were great versions, as long as you didn't 1) jiggle the power cord on the LP26 printer (unexpected I/O adapter interrupt), or 2) read a tape with an ACL on a file (ACP bugchecked the system). V5.0 was a wreck for VMS, but still stayed up longer than NT V4.0 does today. You'll still find *MANY* customers running V5.5-2 today. -Mike ###### From: william.hamblen@nashvile.com (William Hamblen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:33:35 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - The Internet's Discussion Network Lines: 9 Message-ID: <3774fd39.3520301@news.nashville.com> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.65.180.29 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:34:24 GMT X-Trace: 930054864.144.75 UDZDCTQANB41DCF41C qube-02.us-ca.remarq.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!news-out.supernews.com.MISMATCH!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!corp.remarQ.com!not-for-mail On 22 Jun 1999 00:28:33 GMT, ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote: > How many bits, and what happpens when an operation is performed > upon those bits _as defined in the C language_ {ROTFL} Implementation dependent. At least you know its no shorter than a "short." ###### From: prs@gol.com (Peter Stephenson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Message-ID: <377385fa.5340085@nnrp.gol.com> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:54:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.216.42.171 X-Complaints-To: abuse@gol.com X-Trace: nnrp.gol.com 930056049 203.216.42.171 (Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:54:09 JST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:54:09 JST Organization: Global Online Japan Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed.cwix.com!151.142.223.51!WCG!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.gol.com!203.216.70.8.MISMATCH!POSTED.nnrp.gol.com!not-for-mail Quite right. But I guess they're talking MS compilers on Intel boxes. Hate to argue with the moderator of comp.lang.c.moderated, though. Mostly I've learnt to listen, not talk, when hanging out there :-) On 22 Jun 1999 00:28:33 GMT, ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote: > >Peter Seebach (seebs@plethora.net) writes: >> In article <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, >> Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >>>> Easy, just do this: >> >>>> unsigned long start_time; >>>> unsigned long end_time; >>>> unsigned long time_diff; >> >>> Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? >> >> 6.1.2.5 Types > > You didn't answer the question. > > How many bits, and what happpens when an operation is performed > upon those bits _as defined in the C language_ {ROTFL} ###### From: benh@lsl.co.uk (Ben Hutchings) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 22 Jun 1999 13:18:15 GMT Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <7ko2en$9iu@relay.lsl.co.uk> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: lsla1a.lsl.co.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!warm.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.lsl.co.uk!benh Heinz W. Wiggeshoff (ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote: : "Foobar T. Clown" (fubar@gazonk.del) writes: : > Sergej Roytman wrote: : >> : >> HUH? So what happens if the interval you're timing spans the 49.71- : >> day [32 bits worth of milliseconds] rollover? : > : > Easy, just do this: : > : > unsigned long start_time; : > unsigned long end_time; : > unsigned long time_diff; : Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? Who said that was C code? -- Any opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of Laser-Scan. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 22 Jun 1999 15:53:47 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 9 Message-ID: <7kobib$eji@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376E99DE.1A8AA890@pmail.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet5.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!209.130.129.214!nntp.frontiernet.net!news.frontiernet.net!xcski.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Fredrick Backman (fredrick.backman@pmail.net) writes: > uhh..let's talk numbers: > > (Assuming a long is 32 bits) That's not a language definition. And the assumption would likely be wrong on a CDC 6600. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> Organization: Plethora . Net - More net, less spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Lines: 29 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:09:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net X-Trace: ptah.visi.com 930074958 205.166.146.8 (Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:09:18 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:09:18 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!not-for-mail In article <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >Peter Seebach (seebs@plethora.net) writes: >> In article <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, >> Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >>> Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? >> 6.1.2.5 Types > You didn't answer the question. Yes, I did. > How many bits, and what happpens when an operation is performed > upon those bits _as defined in the C language_ {ROTFL} At least 32, and I'm not sure I what you mean by "what happens when an operation is performed on those bits". All we were talking about is subtraction, and subtraction on unsigned types is modulo UFOO_MAX+1, just like all other arithmetic operations. Note that, since we're talking about a system with a specific known limitation in # of seconds, we also know what size long is on this box... -s -- Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/ Visit my new ISP --- More Net, Less Spam! ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376E9FD7.9BF90DFF@ncl.ac.uk> <7kmm4g$cmv@freenet-news.carleton.ca> Organization: Plethora . Net - More net, less spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Lines: 40 Message-ID: <%lQb3.2763$kS.391497@ptah.visi.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:12:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net X-Trace: ptah.visi.com 930075131 205.166.146.8 (Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:12:11 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:12:11 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!not-for-mail In article <7kmm4g$cmv@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >Tom (T.W.Seddon@ncl.ac.uk) writes: >> "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" wrote: >>> Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? >> I think 'unsigned long' is part of ANSI C. Certainly, it has been >> present on all the C compilers I've ever used, even really dodgy >> pre-ANSI ones on the Atari ST. I may be wrong about the ANSI bit though. > I have a copy of the K&R ANSI C book. It doesn't define 'int' nor > 'long int', nor 'unsigned long int'. K&R's text isn't exactly canonical anymore; K&R1 was, but by the time it was in print, a lot of systems had added new features. I'm not sure what you mean by "define" int. "int" is a native integer type; it has a range no smaller than [-32767,32767], and possibly larger. With unsigned types, we care a lot less; we know that unsigned long can represent at least [0,2^32-1]*, and we know that operations on it are always safe and overflow "cleanly" - so, for instance, subtraction on timers works "as expected" unless you exceed the total length of the timer counter. That's all we need to know for this. > When C has a language definition anywhere near as developed as PL/1 > then I'll start taking it seriously. Til then, it's a joke. When PL/1 can be ported to as wide a range of platforms as C, with as little difficulty for implementors, and still be as expressive, I'll start taking it seriously. Til then, it's a joke. -s * Note that I'm using English ^ for to-the-power-of, not C's XOR. -- Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/ Visit my new ISP --- More Net, Less Spam! ###### Message-ID: <376FCC03.1C659E15@gazonk.del> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:46:43 -0400 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7klvg0$iam$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 22 Jun 1999 13:50:18 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!news-hh.maz.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 Derek Peschel wrote: > > In article <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del>, > Foobar T. Clown wrote: > >Sergej Roytman wrote: > > >> what if the interval you're timing spans the [...] rollover? > >Easy, just do this: > > [...] > > But what if the duration of the difference itself is longer than > 49.71 days? That may be what Sergej meant. Your code can't deal > with that Sad but true. If I wanted to time intervals that are longer than the rollover period of my hardware counter, I'd have to write a more complex routine. ###### Message-ID: <376FCDFC.76999906@gazonk.del> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:55:08 -0400 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <377385fa.5340085@nnrp.gol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 22 Jun 1999 13:58:42 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 Peter Stephenson wrote: > > I guess they're talking MS compilers on Intel boxes. Yes, I seem to have started this sub-thread when I demonstrated how I would solve a problem that occurs in MS-WinDoze programs running on a WinTel PC. ###### Message-ID: <376FD0C6.E24958BE@gazonk.del> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:07:02 -0400 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kjldi$j92$1@plonk.apk.net> <376d8cab.24172996@news.direct.ca> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <7ko2en$9iu@relay.lsl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 22 Jun 1999 14:10:36 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 Ben Hutchings wrote: > > Heinz W. Wiggeshoff (ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote: > > : "Foobar T. Clown" (fubar@gazonk.del) writes: > : > Sergej Roytman wrote: > : >> > : >> HUH? So what happens if the interval you're timing spans the 49.71- > : >> day [32 bits worth of milliseconds] rollover? > : > > : > Easy, just do this: > : > > : > [...]; > > : Where is there a definition of 'unsigned long' in C ? > > Who said that was C code? Nobody. It's C-like pseudo code, but I failed to point out that it's hardware dependent. My algorithm (if it can be called that) depends on two unstated assumptions: 1) the range of values of an unsigned long (whatever that is) is the same as the range of values of the hardware counter. 2) the hardware counter overflows in a way that is compatible with the pseudo code '+' and '-' operators. Both of these assumptions are met if the counter is the 32-bit value returned by the MS-WinDoze function, clock(), and the language is any MS-WinDoze compatible C compiler. ###### From: lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Organization: . Message-ID: <376fd546.10372825@news.pandora.be> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:30:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.123.10.187 X-Complaints-To: systemgroup@telenet-ops.be X-Trace: afrodite.telenet-ops.be 930075760 212.123.10.187 (Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:22:40 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:22:40 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!afrodite.telenet-ops.be!not-for-mail alt.folklore.computers << ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff)(22 Jun 1999 00:28:33 GMT); > How many bits, and what happpens when an operation is performed > upon those bits _as defined in the C language_ {ROTFL} How many bits is compiler-dependent (there are some rules saying "not less than..." IIRC, but no fixed size). But whether it's 8, 16, 32 or 256 bits, the wrap-around issue remains the same: the difference (see FooBar's post) will always be correct, as long as the interval is smaller than the reange the chosen data type can represent. So I don't see what there is to laugh about. BTW, where you say "as defined in the C language", you're not confusing C with C++ by any chance? ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 22 Jun 1999 19:12:44 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 16 Message-ID: <7kon7c$j6m@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376fd546.10372825@news.pandora.be> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet5.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!209.130.129.214!nntp.frontiernet.net!news.frontiernet.net!xcski.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Luc Van der Veken (lucvdv@null.net) writes: > > How many bits is compiler-dependent (there are some rules saying > "not less than..." IIRC, but no fixed size). So this accountant was being interviewed for a job. The executive asked the accountant "What is the tax on a $1,000,000 job?" The reply: "What do you want it to be?" And that's my point about C - it does whatever the implementor wants. There is no formal language definition - rendering any statements about portability of programs as hilarious as similar claims made for Fortran and Cobol in Ye Olde Days. Please note: header files are NOT language definitions. ###### From: jstott+usenet@poly.phys.cwru.edu (Jonathan Stott) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 22 Jun 1999 20:33:53 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University Lines: 19 Message-ID: <7korvh$63m$1@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376fd546.10372825@news.pandora.be> <7kon7c$j6m@freenet-news.carleton.ca> Reply-To: jstott+usenet@poly.phys.cwru.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: poly.phys.cwru.edu X-No-Archive: yes X-Notice: Commercial mail is NOT welcome here. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!nntp.abs.net!news-xfer.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!newsfeed.infinet.com!usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu!not-for-mail In article <7kon7c$j6m@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: > > And that's my point about C - it does whatever the implementor wants. > There is no formal language definition - rendering any statements > about portability of programs as hilarious as similar claims made > for Fortran and Cobol in Ye Olde Days. Nonsense. Go back and look in the back of K&R volume 2 again. Fortran too has an ansi standard[1]. Gcc's and g77's "--ansi" flags are there for a reason. -JS [1] -- Jonathan Stott http://poly.phys.cwru.edu/ icbm://41.30.14N/81.36.36W/ jstott@poly.phys.cwru.edu jjs17@po.cwru.edu ###### From: bhahn@spam-spam.go-away.com (Brendan Hahn) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Message-ID: References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376fd546.10372825@news.pandora.be> <7kon7c$j6m@freenet-news.carleton.ca> Organization: Transoft Corp Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Reply-To: bhahn@transoft.mangle.net (unmangle address to reply) X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 6 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:24:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.180.87.35 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:24:59 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nuq-peer.news.verio.net!nntp2.cerf.net!socal.verio.net!nntp.ni.net!nnrp2.ni.net!not-for-mail ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) wrote: > Please note: header files are NOT language definitions. No, but ISO 9899 is. bhahn@transoft.mangle.net <-- unmangle to reply ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 22 Jun 1999 21:27:05 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 19 Message-ID: <7kov39$ltn@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376fd546.10372825@news.pandora.be> <7kon7c$j6m@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <7korvh$63m$1@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet5.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!209.130.129.214!nntp.frontiernet.net!news.frontiernet.net!xcski.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Jonathan Stott (jstott+usenet@poly.phys.cwru.edu) writes: > In article <7kon7c$j6m@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, > Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: >> >> And that's my point about C - it does whatever the implementor wants. >> There is no formal language definition - rendering any statements >> about portability of programs as hilarious as similar claims made >> for Fortran and Cobol in Ye Olde Days. > > Nonsense. Go back and look in the back of K&R volume 2 again. Fortran > too has an ansi standard[1]. Gcc's and g77's "--ansi" flags are there for > a reason. These youngsters slay me. When I type "Ye Olde Days", I'm discussing a time when 1977 had yet to pass. Repeat: There's no ---> formal <--- definition of C, (and for that matter, Crap More More, aka C++) ###### From: lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Organization: . Message-ID: <376ffe5a.20889086@news.pandora.be> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376E54F9.6ABD1028@gazonk.del> <7km24o$403@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376fd546.10372825@news.pandora.be> <7kon7c$j6m@freenet-news.carleton.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:31:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.123.10.187 X-Complaints-To: systemgroup@telenet-ops.be X-Trace: afrodite.telenet-ops.be 930086579 212.123.10.187 (Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:22:59 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:22:59 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!afrodite.telenet-ops.be!not-for-mail alt.folklore.computers << ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff)(22 Jun 1999 19:12:44 GMT); > And that's my point about C - it does whatever the implementor wants. > There is no formal language definition - rendering any statements > about portability of programs as hilarious as similar claims made > for Fortran and Cobol in Ye Olde Days. There's a large degree of freedom - but it's not absolute (and that freedom is exactly what makes it the best language for writing portable code - it doesn't have to bend over backwards and waste processor cycles to follow the rules). To be extremely honest, I'm not 100% sure anymore if the following is (ANSI) C or C++ [or even 100% accurate in the range definitions] - maybe someone else can correct any errors? - a short is at least 16 bits - a long is at least 32 bits - sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) - sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long) ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <7kmlbh$cdi@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376fd546.10372825@news.pandora.be> <7kon7c$j6m@freenet-news.carleton.ca> Organization: Plethora . Net - More net, less spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Lines: 28 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:12:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net X-Trace: ptah.visi.com 930096732 205.166.146.8 (Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:12:12 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:12:12 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!not-for-mail In article <7kon7c$j6m@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: > And that's my point about C - it does whatever the implementor wants. As long as it conforms to the spec. > There is no formal language definition - rendering any statements > about portability of programs as hilarious as similar claims made > for Fortran and Cobol in Ye Olde Days. You're obviously right; clearly, WindowMaker didn't compile with no effort on every C compiler I tried. :) > Please note: header files are NOT language definitions. Indeed, they aren't - and the language definition doesn't include header files, it has a pp-statement which behaves in a manner similar to what you'd get if you had a certain kind of header file. It's quite clear you've never read the spec. Read the spec, and tell us what you think should have been specified that wasn't. -s -- Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/ Visit my new ISP --- More Net, Less Spam! ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376fd546.10372825@news.pandora.be> <7kon7c$j6m@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376ffe5a.20889086@news.pandora.be> Organization: Plethora . Net - More net, less spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Lines: 36 Message-ID: <7FVb3.2812$kS.402680@ptah.visi.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:13:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.166.146.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plethora.net X-Trace: ptah.visi.com 930096835 205.166.146.8 (Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:13:55 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:13:55 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!not-for-mail In article <376ffe5a.20889086@news.pandora.be>, Luc Van der Veken wrote: >To be extremely honest, I'm not 100% sure anymore if the >following is (ANSI) C or C++ [or even 100% accurate in the range >definitions] - maybe someone else can correct any errors? Quite possibly. >- a short is at least 16 bits Yup. >- a long is at least 32 bits Yup. >- sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) >- sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long) Probably. It's not required. However, it *is* required that an int can represent any value that a short can, and a long can represent any value that an int can. However, a sufficiently pointless implementor would, for instance, be allowed to have an 8-byte short which only used 16 bits, and a 4-byte int which used all 32.[*] -s [*] This is assuming they were boring and predictable and used 8-bit bytes; my guess is that such an implementor would scoff at such a well-worn path. -- Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Will work for interesting hardware. http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/ Visit my new ISP --- More Net, Less Spam! ###### From: lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Organization: . Message-ID: <37712507.456085@news.pandora.be> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376fd546.10372825@news.pandora.be> <7kon7c$j6m@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <376ffe5a.20889086@news.pandora.be> <7FVb3.2812$kS.402680@ptah.visi.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:20:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.123.10.187 X-Complaints-To: systemgroup@telenet-ops.be X-Trace: afrodite.telenet-ops.be 930161521 212.123.10.187 (Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:12:01 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:12:01 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!afrodite.telenet-ops.be!not-for-mail alt.folklore.computers << seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach)(Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:13:55 GMT); > >- sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) > >- sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long) > > Probably. > > It's not required. > > However, it *is* required that an int can represent any value that a short > can, and a long can represent any value that an int can. However, a > sufficiently pointless implementor would, for instance, be allowed to have an > 8-byte short which only used 16 bits, and a 4-byte int which used all 32.[*] For a change, I agree this time ;-) ###### From: euphrates@freenet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: 23 Jun 1999 18:32:49 GMT Organization: Cable Internet (post doesn't reflect views of Cable Internet) Lines: 14 Message-ID: <7kr98h$btl$2@news1.cableinet.co.uk> References: <7kov39$ltn@freenet-news.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-2-49.cvx4.telinco.net X-Trace: news1.cableinet.co.uk 930162769 12213 212.1.136.49 (23 Jun 1999 18:32:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cableinet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jun 1999 18:32:49 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!news5.cableinet.net!cableinet-uk!news1.cableinet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1999-06-22 ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA(HeinzW.Wiggeshoff) said: :These youngsters slay me. When I type "Ye Olde Days", I'm discussing :a time when 1977 had yet to pass. :Repeat: There's no ---> formal <--- definition of C, (and for that :matter, Crap More More, aka C++) As a Forth user I can tell you that C is *very* formally defined. :> Seriously, though, what is it about the ANS standard for C that in your view precludes it from forming a formal definition? -- Communa -- you know soft spoken changes nothing ###### From: "Rob Nicholson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What's the longest uptime? Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 18:41:21 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 11 Message-ID: <7ltnge$3m6$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <3768E063.B12E414F@pmail.net> <376C03A1.C81499CC@pmail.net> <7pckk7.sf2.ln@noggin.thenog.net> <376E5553.4FFE5974@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-93.penicillin.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 931291470 3782 62.136.83.93 (6 Jul 1999 20:04:30 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Jul 1999 20:04:30 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail > [Pioneer 11] The Pioneer 11 Mission ended on 30 September 1995, when the > last transmission from the spacecraft was received. Its electrical power > source exhausted, the spacecraft could no longer operate any of its > scientific instruments, nor point its antenna toward Earth. There is something very profound and errie about this spacecraft just drifting onwards but silent. Rob.