From: "riverArt" Newsgroups: alt.computer.workshop.live,alt.computerlink.online,alt.employees.compusa,alt.folklore.computer,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Visually Addictive Internet Portals Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:21:13 -0700 Organization: GT NAP News Service Lines: 36 Message-ID: <926741503.152665@nnrp.gt.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.17.128.124 X-Trace: reah.gt.ca 926741853 19287 209.17.128.124 (15 May 1999 04:17:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@gt.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 May 1999 04:17:33 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Cache-Post-Path: nnrp.gt.ca!unknown@3port81.pris.bc.ca X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.2.1 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.gt.ca!dnews.gt.ca!nnrp.gt.ca There is always a First Web Page that your browser goes to whenever you log onto the Internet. It would be time well spent to choose a number of web links that you would like to have immediately available on this first page, thus transforming the page into a Portal. Since you see this page each and every time you log onto the Internet it should have Personal Visual Appeal - you should like what you see; it should feed your enthusiasm for what you are doing. In order to create such a page you would need: a) some unique Graphic Artwork to choose from, and b) an easy, automated way of embedding your chosen links into the page. RIVERART INTERNET PORTALS Offering you a Gallery of striking Portal Images together with an online form for embedding web links into the fabric of each Image. After selecting a Portal Image, simply fill in the form with your chosen web links and have the Portal page created for you. Click http://members.xoom.com/riverArt to view this Gallery of visually stunning Internet Portal Images. Or, to view an example of a riverArt Internet Portal click one of the following two links instead: If you have a 15 inch monitor click here http://members.xoom.com/riverArt/forest15.html If you have a 17+ inch monitor, click here http://members.xoom.com/riverArt/forest17.html ###### From: jebmanTEETH@bigfoot.com (John E Bolton) Newsgroups: alt.computer.workshop.live,alt.computerlink.online,alt.employees.compusa,alt.folklore.computer,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Visually Addictive Internet Portals Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 13:04:19 GMT Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 28 Message-ID: <373d6596.7748102@news.freeserve.net> References: <926741503.152665@nnrp.gt.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-41.laughing.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news4.svr.pol.co.uk 926773446 17600 62.136.100.41 (15 May 1999 13:04:06 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 May 1999 13:04:06 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail On Fri, 14 May 1999 21:21:13 -0700, "riverArt" wrote: >There is always a First Web Page that your browser goes to whenever you log >onto the Internet. > [Rest of SPAM clipped] Do not support commercial enterprises who clutter NGs with spam, rather than pay for advertising !!! However, if you like the idea, this is what I did some time ago: Using Word, I created a document which consisted of a list of most commonly visited web sites ( favourite search engines etc. ) in the form of a table of two columns on a pleasing background. Column one contains the hyperlink and column two a brief description. The document was saved in html format and my browser configured to have this as my home page. Since it resides on HD it is instantly available and is easy to edit as preferances change. John. == Remove TEETH to reply == ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Visually Addictive Internet Portals References: <926741503.152665@nnrp.gt.ca> <373d6596.7748102@news.freeserve.net> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 50 Message-ID: <17l%2.103$MF5.64264@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:51:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.212.106.44 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 926801469 141.212.106.44 (Sat, 15 May 1999 16:51:09 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 16:51:09 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cloudbreak.rs.itd.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit In article <373d6596.7748102@news.freeserve.net>, John E Bolton wrote: >On Fri, 14 May 1999 21:21:13 -0700, "riverArt" >wrote: >>There is always a First Web Page that your browser goes to whenever you log >>onto the Internet. >[Rest of SPAM clipped] ...especially since it seems to have been posted by one of the Tribe Which Calls the Web, "da innernet, (drool)". Urk. Shun. >Do not support commercial enterprises who clutter NGs with spam, >rather than pay for advertising !!! I generally ignore them, though I have been known to engage in light ridicule every so often. >However, if you like the idea, this is what I did some time ago: > >Using Word, I created a document which consisted of a list of most >commonly visited web sites ( favourite search engines etc. ) in the >form of a table of two columns on a pleasing background. > [...] However, should I ever feel the need to put up a web page I think that a short session of HTMLing with vi will do the trick. It is true that a pleasing background may take some searching, but I can either dispense with one altogether, or find one somewhere that I can use. The preferred style for grad students seems to be plain, Netscape gray anyway. Should I happen to find MS-Nerd on my hard drive while I do so, you can be sure that I'll delete it with much glee, though I'll probably wonder how it made its way, virus-like, onto my disk in the first place. That said (and since I've limited the distribution of this article to alt.folklore.computers), what about vi-ing a web page? That is my preferred way to make one, but I've actually run into people---even ones who work with computers---who find this too hard. I've been thinking about this ever since somebody posted in another thread that Tex (sic) makes it too hard to write equations and that Nerd is the way to go. I've always thought that it _should_ be possible to teach a good clerical worker to use TeX. After all, it's only a few extra rules and some characters that have to be escaped. I wonder why something semi-WSYWYG is thought to be so much harder to use than TeX/ LaTeX/something else text-based, especially since (say) Nerd has some sort of cryptic language of its own that must be used when setting equations. -- Sergej Roytman ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Visually Addictive Internet Portals Date: 16 May 1999 22:08:52 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 82 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uu2tcaiaz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <926741503.152665@nnrp.gt.ca> <373d6596.7748102@news.freeserve.net> <17l%2.103$MF5.64264@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) writes: > > >Do not support commercial enterprises who clutter NGs with spam, > >rather than pay for advertising !!! > > I generally ignore them, though I have been known to engage in light > ridicule every so often. The only thing they are good for :-). > >However, if you like the idea, this is what I did some time ago: > > > >Using Word, I created a document which consisted of a list of most > >commonly visited web sites ( favourite search engines etc. ) in the > >form of a table of two columns on a pleasing background. > > [...] > > That said (and since I've limited the distribution of this article to > alt.folklore.computers), what about vi-ing a web page? That is my > preferred way to make one, Well s/vi// and you get what I do for all my pages. As result they are about the fastest I know, even usable over an 9600bit/s mobile phone link. > but I've actually run into people---even > ones who work with computers---who find this too hard. It requires learning, how HTML works, what tags exist. That requires too much time for todays lazy or make-maximum-money society. Only the quickest and easiest (in short term thinking) is acceptable to these people. > I've been > thinking about this ever since somebody posted in another thread that > Tex (sic) makes it too hard to write equations and that Nerd is the way > to go. I've always thought that it _should_ be possible to teach a > good clerical worker to use TeX. The secretry of an user group colleague of mine does this. But then, he started in CP/M days and automated his entire office short after. > After all, it's only a few extra > rules and some characters that have to be escaped. I wonder why > something semi-WSYWYG is thought to be so much harder to use than TeX/ > LaTeX/something else text-based, Not harder, just a bit of work to get over the initial learning curve. Potential later savings are an too misty and nebulous concept to get any luser mind share. > especially since (say) Nerd has some > sort of cryptic language of its own that must be used when setting > equations. But invisible to the average luser. The whole GUI concept is about shifting the requirement of the user knowing (and so having to learn) something into the program knowing how to hand-hold the luser through doing a job. Just look at these MS Wizard things. Passive consumer behaviour demands this. Bloatware lives from this. That one is sacrificing power is outside the mental limitations of the average luser. Learning is after all such an awfull thing, direct painfull :-). You do not even enjoy TV after doing it for too long. Neil "Long live the command line" Franklin -- Neil Franklin, Nerd, Geek, Unix Guru, Hacker, Mystic neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ 20th century record companies fit the 21st century data highways as good as 19th century stagecoaches fit the 20th century freeways ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Visually Addictive Internet Portals References: <926741503.152665@nnrp.gt.ca> <373d6596.7748102@news.freeserve.net> <17l%2.103$MF5.64264@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> <6uu2tcaiaz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 47 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 01:39:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.212.106.44 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 926905166 141.212.106.44 (Sun, 16 May 1999 21:39:26 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 21:39:26 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu.MISMATCH!cloudbreak.rs.itd.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit In article <6uu2tcaiaz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: >ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) writes: >> but I've actually run into people---even >> ones who work with computers---who find this too hard. >It requires learning, how HTML works, what tags exist. The one I'm thinking about works (in theory) with computers. One would expect him to understand things like escape sequences, variables and modes, and to be able to memorize a short list of keywords, at least. >> I wonder why >> something semi-WSYWYG is thought to be so much harder to use than TeX/ >> LaTeX/something else text-based, >Not harder, just a bit of work to get over the initial learning curve. >Potential later savings are an too misty and nebulous concept to get >any luser mind share. That may be the answer, I guess. M$-Wizard(tm)-studded GUIs make it easy for average people to make adequate-looking slides for their next show-and-te^Wmeeting, without having to actually learn anything about the software. Emphasis on "average" and "adequate". Maybe it's a matter of outlook: finding something good in attaining a degree of mastery of things one uses compared to point-and-drool mediocrity and having time left over for more of the same. Breadth versus depth? >That one is sacrificing power is outside the mental limitations of the >average luser. Learning is after all such an awfull thing, direct >painfull :-). I think that even the concept that truly understanding something, in depth, is a Good Thing is lost on many people. On the other hand, some of the people I deal with can tell you a great deal about the tuning of an internal combustion engine (I work for an automobile company), or have memorized a bunch of sports stats, so maybe it's only a matter of what who considers to be a valid field in which to apply himself. > You do not even enjoy TV after doing it for too long. Me? I've lived pretty much without TV the last several years, when I was doing my Master's, and now find that I do not miss it very much. Pinky and the Brain sounds like it might be worth looking into, though. -- Sergej Roytman ###### From: hmv@port.ac.uk (Mike Meredith at home) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Visually Addictive Internet Portals Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:47:42 +0100 Organization: University of Portsmouth Lines: 17 Sender: mike@port.ac.uk Message-ID: References: <926741503.152665@nnrp.gt.ca> <373d6596.7748102@news.freeserve.net> <17l%2.103$MF5.64264@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: node75.remote.port.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!server3.netnews.ja.net!spruce.sucs.soton.ac.uk!wapping.ecs.soton.ac.uk!news.port.ac.uk!predator!nobody In article <17l%2.103$MF5.64264@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>, ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) writes: > to go. I've always thought that it _should_ be possible to teach a > good clerical worker to use TeX. After all, it's only a few extra > rules and some characters that have to be escaped. I wonder why > something semi-WSYWYG is thought to be so much harder to use than TeX/ > LaTeX/something else text-based, especially since (say) Nerd has some > sort of cryptic language of its own that must be used when setting > equations. What do you think secretaries in Maths departments use ? Quite a few just a couple of floors up from me *do* use TeX. As to whether they like it or not, I don't know :-) -- No surgery is necessary on my email address, but spammers may require surgery to remove parts of my address from their rectum. ###### From: communa@euphrates.idps.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Visually Addictive Internet Portals Date: 17 May 1999 21:10:42 GMT Organization: Cable Internet (post doesn't reflect views of Cable Internet) Lines: 36 Message-ID: <7hq0ki$n8q$2@news1.cableinet.co.uk> References: <17l%2.103$MF5.64264@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.1.135.183 X-Trace: news1.cableinet.co.uk 926975442 23834 212.1.135.183 (17 May 1999 21:10:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cableinet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 May 1999 21:10:42 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!news5.cableinet.net!cableinet-uk!news1.cableinet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1999-05-15 ftit@engin.umich.edu(SergejRoytman) said: :>>There is always a First Web Page that your browser goes to :>>whenever you log onto the Internet. :>[Rest of SPAM clipped] :....especially since it seems to have been posted by one of the :Tribe Which Calls the Web, "da innernet, (drool)". Urk. Shun. More like "the tribe that can't tell the difference". HTTP is stateless, so there can't really be any sense of logging on, except for some unpleasant tricks played with cookies. :That said (and since I've limited the distribution of this article :to alt.folklore.computers), what about vi-ing a web page? That is :my preferred way to make one, but I've actually run into :people---even ones who work with computers---who find this too hard. I find it easier to write HTML in a text editor than I do to write Word documents in Word. I write HTML documents at work for that reason. Nobody complains (but then we are a right bunch of MS-haters where I work :> ). :I've been thinking about this ever since somebody posted in another :thread that Tex (sic) makes it too hard to write equations and that :Nerd is the way to go. Another example of easy to learn vs easy to use. For the one-off equation, I'm sure TeX is hard - but when it's your job, it gets a lot easier. I've never used TeX, because I've never needed to write large quantities of equations (and in any case, I'd probably use eqn and troff out of preference) - but I'd sure as hell be prepared to put in the effort for greater throughput. I'm lazy; if I can do a couple of hours' work now to reduce the effort overall, I'll do it. -- Communa -- you know soft spoken changes nothing