From: Mathijs Panhuijsen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Question about all-caps systems Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:10:30 +0200 Organization: Cronopios Internacionales Lines: 35 Message-ID: <371D1774.7925B2DE@nospam.wxs.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: ap0176-0.dial.wxs.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader3.wxs.nl 924653429 754919 195.121.22.176 (21 Apr 1999 00:10:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wxs.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Apr 1999 00:10:29 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!193.78.240.23.MISMATCH!newsfeed.amsterdam.nl.net!sun4nl!gate.news.unisource.nl!news.wxs.nl!not-for-mail Hello newsgroup, I have an anecdote I hope someone here can verify. It runs like this. Back in the 20s or 30s, the TeleType Corporation had to choose whether to use upper or lower case for their apparatus. A long study on legibility of either case was made, and it was concluded that an all-lowercase system was preferable. However, when this conclusion was presented to management, it was rejected for a very simple: the inability to write the name of God correctly in an all-lowercase system. So TeleType went for the ALL-UPPERCASE system and other computer companies followed suit. As I said, I'm looking for some kind of verification for this story, some reliable source I can quote. I found this anecdote in Eric Raymond's New Hacker Dictionary. I contacted the author but the email of the source he referred me to was invalid. The reason I'm trying to verify this story is because I want to use it in a magazine article for the magazine of the company I work for, Human Inference (www.humaninference.com). One of its products is called Name/IT-Capital Conversion and it aims to correct problems arising from single case computer systems. The magazine is distributed among (potential) clients of HI's software. My work email is m.panhuijsen@humaninference.com Many thanks for any help you can offer, Mathijs Panhuijsen [=Spijt, inhumane sjah?] Please remove "nospam" from my email address when you reply. Bezoek Mathijs' filmpagina's op http://home.wxs.nl/~m.panhuijsen/FilmFSet.htm Meer dan 200 filmbesprekingen! ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: eric@fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Subject: Re: Question about all-caps systems X-Nntp-Posting-Host: fudge.uchicago.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) X-Newsposter: Pnews 4.0-test51 (15 Jan 97) Organization: The University of Chicago References: <371D1774.7925B2DE@nospam.wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:17:43 GMT Lines: 49 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!nntp01.net-okbr01.exodus.net!nntp01.net-okbr01.exodus.net!128.174.5.49!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!not-for-mail Mathijs Panhuijsen wrote: > I have an anecdote I hope someone here can verify. It runs like this. > Back in the 20s or 30s, the TeleType Corporation had to choose whether > to use upper or lower case for their apparatus. A long study on > legibility of either case was made, and it was concluded that an > all-lowercase system was preferable. However, when this conclusion was > presented to management, it was rejected for a very simple: the > inability to write the name of God correctly in an all-lowercase system. > So TeleType went for the ALL-UPPERCASE system and other computer > companies followed suit. While Teletype's designs do seem to have had a huge influence on what other manufacturers did, I don't think they can be reasonably credited (or blamed) for choosing capitals as the case to use when only one is available. The Teletype corporation didn't exist until 1923, when Morkrum and Kleinschmidt merged and adopted that name. I know of several systems from before that date which appear, based on illustrations, to have used caps exclusively: * Sholes's first typewriter (as seen in the famous facsimile of the first letter typed by Mark Twain) * M. Carpentier's Baudot equipment [1] * F. G. Creed's Morse code printer, 1922, an improved version of a 1914 design [2] * The Stock Quotation Telegraph Company's stock tickers [3] * The Barclay Page-Printing telegraph system [4] The only system I have seen illustrated using lowercase (prior to the Commercial Controls (later Friden) Flexowriter from the 1950s) is the Murray Multiplex Page-Printing telegraph [5], and this is a stylized drawing, not a picture of the actual output. I do know of one legibility study [6] the results of which were used in the design of a Teletype terminal -- but it indicated that capitals should be the standard case, and was done in 1970, not the 1920s or 30s. [1] H. W. Pendry, The Baudot Printing Telegraph System, Isaac Pitman and Sons, London, second edition, 1919, pp. 155-158. [2] F. G. Creed, "The Creed High Speed Morse Printing Telegraph System," Electrical Communication, vol. 8, pp. 52-60. [3] Erich Hausmann, Telegraph Engineering, Van Nostrand, New York, 1915, pp. 115-121. [4] Hausmann, pp. 121-133. [5] Hausmann, pp. 163-167. [6] Allen G. Vartabedian, "The Design of Visual Displays," Bell Laboratories Record, September, 1970, pp. 227-231. eric ###### From: Dave Daniels Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question about all-caps systems Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:34:21 BST Organization: ArgoNet, but does not reflect its views Lines: 25 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <371D1774.7925B2DE@nospam.wxs.nl> Reply-To: Dave Daniels NNTP-Posting-Host: userae48.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 924721466 14923 62.188.131.190 (21 Apr 1999 19:04:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Apr 1999 19:04:26 GMT X-Newsreader: NewsAgent 0.85 for RISC OS Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!argonet.co.uk!argbq79 In article , eric@fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) wrote: > other manufacturers did, I don't think they can be reasonably credited > (or blamed) for choosing capitals as the case to use when only one is > available. The Teletype corporation didn't exist until 1923, when > The story I heard was that capital letters were chosen so that 'God' would always be written with a capital 'G'. Writing it is 'god' was seen as being disrespectful. Dave -- ANTISPAM: Please note that the email address above is false. My correct address is: dave_danielsargonetcouk Please replace the and s with @ and . respectively when replying - Thanks! ###### From: jeffreyb@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Jeffrey Keith Boulier) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question about all-caps systems Organization: The George Washington University Lines: 9 Message-ID: <7flq65$lrl@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> References: <371D1774.7925B2DE@nospam.wxs.nl> Date: 21 Apr 1999 20:23:33 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.164.127.252 X-Trace: fozzy.nit.gwu.edu 924740346 128.164.127.252 (Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:19:06 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:19:06 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.clark.net!europa.netcrusader.net!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snf1!news.gtei.net!fozzy.nit.gwu.edu!not-for-mail The last time this thread came up, one of the participants on the debunking side noted that given the standards of quality associated with printer devices "in the old days", CAPITAL LETTERS were probably much more legible than lower case letters. A capital G for the big G. was just serendipity. Yours Truly, Jeff Boulier ###### From: hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question about all-caps systems Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:12:21 -0700 Organization: ErsteSoft Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <371D1774.7925B2DE@nospam.wxs.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.134.244.11 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:11:29 GMT X-Trace: 924786689.416.93 S0YUSD2PSF40BCD86C usenet1.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com Distribution: world Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!do.de.uu.net!f.de.uu.net!newsfeed.ecrc.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!news.remarQ.com!hnsngr In article , Dave Daniels wrote: > The story I heard was that capital letters were chosen so that > 'God' would always be written with a capital 'G'. Writing it is > 'god' was seen as being disrespectful. I'd think the more important concern was the descender under g, j, and y. By using all capitals, they could get a larger type size in the same vertical space. -Ron Hunsinger ###### From: cpierce1@ford.com (Clinton Pierce) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Question about all-caps systems Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:41:00 GMT Organization: Hardly Lines: 21 Message-ID: <372626da.1898911730@news.ford.com> References: <371D1774.7925B2DE@nospam.wxs.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: 19.88.81.187 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!newsfeed.ecrc.net!europa.clark.net!europa.netcrusader.net!141.211.144.13!cliffs.rs.itd.umich.edu!jobone!dailyplanet.srl.ford.com!eccws1.dearborn.ford.com!news On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:34:21 BST, Dave Daniels wrote: >In article , eric@fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric >Fischer) wrote: >> other manufacturers did, I don't think they can be reasonably credited >> (or blamed) for choosing capitals as the case to use when only one is >> available. The Teletype corporation didn't exist until 1923, when >> > >The story I heard was that capital letters were chosen so that >'God' would always be written with a capital 'G'. Writing it is >'god' was seen as being disrespectful. I always assumed the deity in question was IBM. -- Clinton A. Pierce "If you rush a Miracle Man, you get rotten clintp@geeksalad.org Miracles." -- Miracle Max, The Princess Bride http://www.geeksalad.org