From: Victor Eijkhout Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.editors Subject: Bat keyboard (Re: What's Wrong With Modes? (was: Re: Why VI?) Date: 24 Mar 1999 19:59:20 -0500 Organization: University of Tennessee Lines: 29 Distribution: inet Message-ID: References: <7bui6h$l34$1@news.seed.net.tw> <7c1i4t$arv$9@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <7c56u5$nnu$1@nusku.cts.com> <7cd1vo$37d$2@nusku.cts.com> <7cmtob$7l1$1@nusku.cts.com> <7d5abh$rrs$2@nusku.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nala.cs.utk.edu X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!news-in-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!utk.edu!not-for-mail writes: > > : Someone made a one-handed keyboard. I don't know if they're still > > : available or not. It had three keys for the thumb and one for each finger. > > : You used chording to produce every possible key on a normal keyboard. Description correct. > > : never used one but The Ads Said(tm) that you could learn to use one in > > : about 2-3 weeks. I imagine that that would be a very convenient way to run > > : a GUI with only two hands. Also correct. Which is why I bought one when the keyboard on my Mac broke down. I had letters and digits down in 2-3 days (Xmas), but punctuation and other keys took longer. > No, court reporters use a two-handed chording keyboard. This one was > one-handed only and was made by a specific company. IIRC it might have > been called the Bat keyboard. I'll try a search for it. Company called Infogrip, with obvious website. Their catalogue has many cool gadgets for people with limbs missing, paralysed, god-knows-what, to allow them to control a computer. -- Victor Eijkhout "Presidential hopeful Pat Buchanan's assertion ... that he personally is not descended from monkeys explains a lot to those of us who _are_ from this planet." -- Gerald L. Epstein in Science, Aug. 16, 1996 ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.editors Subject: Re: Bat keyboard (Re: What's Wrong With Modes? (was: Re: Why VI?) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:50:19 -0500 Organization: Kettering University (formerly GMI E&MI) - Flint MI Lines: 19 Distribution: inet Message-ID: References: <7bui6h$l34$1@news.seed.net.tw> <7c1i4t$arv$9@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <7c56u5$nnu$1@nusku.cts.com> <7cd1vo$37d$2@nusku.cts.com> <7cmtob$7l1$1@nusku.cts.com> <7d5abh$rrs$2@nusku.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nova.kettering.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!msunews!news.gmi.edu!nova.kettering.edu!lee1089 On 24 Mar 1999, Victor Eijkhout wrote: > Also correct. Which is why I bought one when the keyboard on my Mac > broke down. I had letters and digits down in 2-3 days (Xmas), but > punctuation and other keys took longer. So how did they set up the chording? ____________________________________________________________________________ | "A little nonsense now and then, | "If it walks out of the fridge, let Is relished by the wisest men." | it go" -- John Dougherty --W.W. | "If it loves you it will come back." | -- Ian Davis __________________________________|_________________________________________ Theta Xi Kappa Sigma ###### From: Victor Eijkhout Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.editors Subject: Re: Bat keyboard (Re: What's Wrong With Modes? (was: Re: Why VI?) Date: 26 Mar 1999 13:12:41 -0500 Organization: University of Tennessee Lines: 50 Distribution: inet Message-ID: References: <7bui6h$l34$1@news.seed.net.tw> <7c1i4t$arv$9@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <7c56u5$nnu$1@nusku.cts.com> <7cd1vo$37d$2@nusku.cts.com> <7cmtob$7l1$1@nusku.cts.com> <7d5abh$rrs$2@nusku.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nala.cs.utk.edu X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snf1!news.gtei.net!utk.edu!not-for-mail writes: > > Also correct. Which is why I bought one when the keyboard on my Mac > > broke down. I had letters and digits down in 2-3 days (Xmas), but > > punctuation and other keys took longer. > > So how did they set up the chording? No overwhelming logic. The four fingers plus the middle thumb key give you the letters (x=pressed, o=not) a o x x x x b x o o x o c o o x o x d o o x x o e o x x x o f x o o o x g o x o o x h o x x o o et cetera It probably uses some idea of alternating fingers in letters that frequently follow each other. Outer thumb key is shift: first hit that, then letter. Inner thumb key is for digits: first hit that, then 1 o o o o x 2 o o o x o 3 o o x o o 4 o x o o o 5 x o o o o 6 o o o x x 7 o o x o x 8 o x o o x 9 x o o o x For some keys such as "[" first hit the num key, then some chord. Ergo, "{" is first shift, then num, then chord. Not really a programmer's keyboard ... Though programming is not really bulk text input. -- Victor Eijkhout "Presidential hopeful Pat Buchanan's assertion ... that he personally is not descended from monkeys explains a lot to those of us who _are_ from this planet." -- Gerald L. Epstein in Science, Aug. 16, 1996 ###### From: mww@microfocus.com (Michael Wojcik) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.editors Subject: Re: Bat keyboard (Re: What's Wrong With Modes? (was: Re: Why VI?) Date: 27 Mar 1999 03:20:16 GMT Organization: MERANT Inc. Lines: 38 Message-ID: <7dhipg$223i@news1.newsguy.com> References: <7bui6h$l34$1@news.seed.net.tw> <7c1i4t$arv$9@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <7c56u5$nnu$1@nusku.cts.com> <7cd1vo$37d$2@nusku.cts.com> <7cmtob$7l1$1@nusku.cts.com> <7d5abh$rrs$2@nusku.cts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-947.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: xrn 9.00 Originator: mww@raederle.microfocus.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!mww In article , Victor Eijkhout writes: > writes: > > > Someone made a one-handed keyboard. I don't know if they're still > > available or not. It had three keys for the thumb and one for each finger. > > You used chording to produce every possible key on a normal keyboard. > > Description correct. OK, I'll bite. "every possible key on a normal keyboard"? Assuming these are two-position switches, that looks like 63 combinations to me: 16 for the four finger bits, times 4 for the thumb positions (thumb button 1, 2, or 3, or on no button at all), less one for the "idle" chord (presumably the one with no buttons depressed). Even if we don't support letter case, once we take 26 positions for letters, 10 for digits, one each for space, backspace, and return, there are only 25 codes left. The keyboard I'm using now has 32 punctuation marks, plus tab, esc, 12 function keys, two additional shift modes, editing keys, cursor keys, and so on. And not having letter case would be a major problem for pretty much everything I use a computer for; when I'm not writing English text, I'm generally writing code in a case-sensitive language. (The Twiddler, which someone mentioned in the ancestor thread, appears to have several rows of finger buttons; it's held in the hand rather than resting on a table, going by the picture on the web site.) Michael Wojcik Michael.Wojcik@MERANT.com AAI Development, MERANT (block capitals are a company mandate) Department of English, Miami University If Mokona means for us to eat this, I, a gentle person, will become angry! -- Umi (CLAMP & unknown translator), _Magic Knight Rayearth_ ###### From: ctb_me@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.editors Subject: Re: Bat keyboard (Re: What's Wrong With Modes? (was: Re: Why VI?) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:40:51 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 32 Message-ID: <7djj92$kj4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <7bui6h$l34$1@news.seed.net.tw> <7c1i4t$arv$9@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <7c56u5$nnu$1@nusku.cts.com> <7cd1vo$37d$2@nusku.cts.com> <7cmtob$7l1$1@nusku.cts.com> <7d5abh$rrs$2@nusku.cts.com> <7dhipg$223i@news1.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 148.61.142.112 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat Mar 27 21:40:51 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x4.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 148.61.142.112 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!solomon.io.com!news-feeds.jump.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail > OK, I'll bite. "every possible key on a normal keyboard"? Assuming > these are two-position switches, that looks like 63 combinations to > me: 16 for the four finger bits, times 4 for the thumb positions > (thumb button 1, 2, or 3, or on no button at all), less one for the > "idle" chord (presumably the one with no buttons depressed). > > Even if we don't support letter case, once we take 26 positions for > letters, 10 for digits, one each for space, backspace, and return, > there are only 25 codes left. The keyboard I'm using now has 32 > punctuation marks, plus tab, esc, 12 function keys, two additional > shift modes, editing keys, cursor keys, and so on. And not having > letter case would be a major problem for pretty much everything I use > a computer for; when I'm not writing English text, I'm generally > writing code in a case-sensitive language. The only option I can think of is a "sticky" key idea. If you look at the picture (seen on www.infogrip.com) you notice that the thumb keys are Red, White, and Blue. So, I'll appreviate them as R, W, & B. Okay, I agree that the finger keys themselves make 16 options. Then, R+fingers gives another 16, W+fingers = 16, B+fingers = 16, for a total of 64 different combinations. Now, perhapsa Taping R + W+fingers is a different combination, thereby giving another 16, tapping B + W+fingers = another 16... get the idea? I'm not sure if that's correct or not, but it's an idea. Chris -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### From: Victor Eijkhout Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.editors Subject: Re: Bat keyboard (Re: What's Wrong With Modes? (was: Re: Why VI?) Date: 29 Mar 1999 12:51:25 -0500 Organization: University of Tennessee Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <7bui6h$l34$1@news.seed.net.tw> <7c1i4t$arv$9@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <7c56u5$nnu$1@nusku.cts.com> <7cd1vo$37d$2@nusku.cts.com> <7cmtob$7l1$1@nusku.cts.com> <7d5abh$rrs$2@nusku.cts.com> <7dhipg$223i@news1.newsguy.com> <7djj92$kj4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nala.cs.utk.edu X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!utk.edu!not-for-mail ctb_me@my-dejanews.com writes: > > OK, I'll bite. "every possible key on a normal keyboard"? Assuming > > these are two-position switches, that looks like 63 combinations to > Okay, I agree that the finger keys themselves make 16 options. > Then, R+fingers gives another 16, W+fingers = 16, B+fingers = 16, > for a total of 64 different combinations. Sorta. The W key is part of the regular characters, the B and R are indeed prefix. The B is also the shift. For instance, "[" is R+v, "{" is B+R+v, and noting that the "v" involves your thumb, your thumb is hitting 3 times in a row here. Now, perhapsa Taping > R + W+fingers is a different combination, thereby giving another > 16, tapping B + W+fingers = another 16... get the idea? I'm not > sure if that's correct or not, but it's an idea. That's it, modulo a detail or two. For instance, R and B are both sticky, and usable as part of a chord. Eg, ";" is R&u, down-arrow is B&u. -- Victor Eijkhout "Presidential hopeful Pat Buchanan's assertion ... that he personally is not descended from monkeys explains a lot to those of us who _are_ from this planet." -- Gerald L. Epstein in Science, Aug. 16, 1996 ###### From: ctb_me@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Bat keyboard (Re: What's Wrong With Modes? (was: Re: Why VI?) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:08:52 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 38 Message-ID: <7dr3ve$srg$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <7bui6h$l34$1@news.seed.net.tw> <7c1i4t$arv$9@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <7c56u5$nnu$1@nusku.cts.com> <7cd1vo$37d$2@nusku.cts.com> <7cmtob$7l1$1@nusku.cts.com> <7d5abh$rrs$2@nusku.cts.com> <7dhipg$223i@news1.newsguy.com> <7djj92$kj4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 148.61.142.112 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Mar 30 18:08:52 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x7.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 148.61.142.112 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article , Victor Eijkhout wrote: > ctb_me@my-dejanews.com writes: > > > > OK, I'll bite. "every possible key on a normal keyboard"? Assuming > > > these are two-position switches, that looks like 63 combinations to > > > Okay, I agree that the finger keys themselves make 16 options. > > Then, R+fingers gives another 16, W+fingers = 16, B+fingers = 16, > > for a total of 64 different combinations. > > Sorta. The W key is part of the regular characters, the B and R are > indeed prefix. The B is also the shift. For instance, "[" is > R+v, "{" is B+R+v, and noting that the "v" involves your thumb, > your thumb is hitting 3 times in a row here. Okay, so... let's see if I got this right... 5 "normal" keys: one for each finger, and the white thumb key. This makes 32 key combinations. In addition, hitting blue acts as Shift... giving 32 new keys, Red is another shift-type key...giving another 32, and finally, R+B is a different shift, and another 32 keys, all together than, 128 combinations. Is this correct? I have another question too... If I'm not mistaken, the BAT allows you to connect a "standard" keyboard to the BAT and use both at the same time, correct? If so, can you hold shift on a regular keyboard and have it shift the keystroke from the BAT? Chris -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own