Message-ID: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 16:49:58 +0100 From: Dan =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E5hlberg?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Subject: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-59.wineasy.se X-Trace: 6 Mar 1999 16:49:27 +0100, pm1-59.wineasy.se Lines: 11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!masternews.telia.net!news-feed.sto.telegate.se!news.sto.telegate.se!pm1-59.wineasy.se As part of a restoration project of the software for and old computer from the 50's, we are looking for the physical format for paper tapes, i. e. the distances between holes, sizes etc. We need it to build a tape reader for the old paper tapes. Any help or pointers to standards, web pages or documents or your own = memories would truly be appreciated. Dan St=E5hlberg dan.stahlberg@wineasy.se ###### From: Warren Goyer Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:35:18 -0800 Organization: gte.net Lines: 28 Message-ID: <7brk9m$nc8$1@news-2.news.gte.net> References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust164.tnt1.ontario.ca.da.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Auth: C21286025488C78143988491 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!worldfeed.news.gte.net!not-for-mail Dan, Most paper tape was 1" wide with .1" spacing between sprocket holes. Some old computers used smaller tape. If the 1" tape is what you have, let me know. I may be able to dig up an old reader you could start with. Some old mainframes used Teletype machines for input/output. There were lots of these ASR-33 or ASR-35's around at one time. I would think someone would still have on in the barn. Warren Dan Ståhlberg wrote: > As part of a restoration project of the software for and old computer > from the 50's, we are looking for the physical format for paper tapes, > i. e. the distances between holes, sizes etc. We need it to build a > tape reader for the old paper tapes. > > Any help or pointers to standards, web pages or documents or your own > memories would truly be appreciated. > > Dan Ståhlberg > dan.stahlberg@wineasy.se ###### From: whd@directors-1.zetnet.zet (Ag@whd) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 16:22:01 GMT Organization: White Horse Design Lines: 30 Message-ID: <3703559d.7798202@news.zetnet.co.uk> References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> Reply-To: whd@directors-1.zetnet.zet NNTP-Posting-Host: manr-039.dialup.zetnet.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: roch.zetnet.co.uk 920737293 12936 194.247.43.169 (6 Mar 1999 16:21:33 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Mar 1999 16:21:33 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On Sat, 06 Mar 1999 16:49:58 +0100, Dan Ståhlberg penned these words: >As part of a restoration project of the software for and old computer >from the 50's, we are looking for the physical format for paper tapes, >i. e. the distances between holes, sizes etc. We need it to build a >tape reader for the old paper tapes. > >Any help or pointers to standards, web pages or documents or your own >memories would truly be appreciated. I have a couple of floor standing paper tape punch / readers. I also have some blank paper tape and also some real programs stored on tape including the 8kb Robert Uiterwyck (sp?) BASIC interpreter for an SWTPC 6800 system. They operate serially - i.e. you can plug them into a PC or manually driven. Do you want to inspect them? Adrian WWW WWW Adrian Gothard WWW ww WWW White Horse Design WWWWWWWWWW WWWW WWWW whd@zetnet.co.uk, http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/whd --- Designers of video capture/filter/processing systems for aircraft ###### From: kfl@clark.net (Keith Lynch) Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Date: 6 Mar 1999 17:43:24 GMT Organization: Verio Mid-Atlantic Lines: 32 Message-ID: <7brpfs$jic$1@clarknet.clark.net> References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell.clark.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!europa.clark.net!206.55.3.15!news.clark.net!kfl In article <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se>, Dan =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E5hlberg?= wrote: > As part of a restoration project of the software for and old > computer from the 50's, we are looking for the physical format for > paper tapes, ... Paper tapes were still in widespread use in the 70's. There are two main types that I'm aware of. The five level ones used on Baudot teletypes, which were in widespread use at newspapers, by radio amateurs, and by deaf people. And the eight level ones that were used with ASCII computers. I'm sure plenty of tape readers of both types are still in usable condition, if not actually in daily use any more. But if this hardware is really from the 50's, then it may be some third format that I'm not aware of. I don't think ASCII existed then. And I don't think Baudot was ever used much with computers. If you're mistaken about the decade, and these *are* ASCII tapes, I can describe the format. I still have plenty of such tapes, and I can still read them by eye. At least paper tape can always be read by eye, unlike more modern media. If the tape is badly mangled, it sometimes has to be. (Posted and mailed.) -- Keith F. Lynch -- kfl@clark.net -- http://www.clark.net/pub/kfl/ I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but unsolicited bulk e-mail sent to thousands of randomly collected addresses is not acceptable, and I do complain to the spammer's ISP. ###### From: "Art Rice" Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Lines: 21 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Message-ID: <8BeE2.1436$Ku1.1097337@newse3.tampabay.rr.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 18:36:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.92.179.142 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@tampabay.rr.com X-Trace: newse3.tampabay.rr.com 920745412 24.92.179.142 (Sat, 06 Mar 1999 13:36:52 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 13:36:52 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.92.0.41!newse1.tampabay.rr.com!newse3.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Paper tape was also used in printers. I might have a sample of the old IBM style that I could measure for you. The old Teletype Corporation 33 and 35 models were actually made by Ma Bell. There should still be plenty sources for that ASCII tape. Dan Ståhlberg wrote in message news:36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se... As part of a restoration project of the software for and old computer from the 50's, we are looking for the physical format for paper tapes, i. e. the distances between holes, sizes etc. We need it to build a tape reader for the old paper tapes. Any help or pointers to standards, web pages or documents or your own memories would truly be appreciated. Dan Ståhlberg dan.stahlberg@wineasy.se ###### From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Followup-To: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Date: 6 Mar 1999 20:37:31 -0000 Organization: P850 User Group Message-ID: <7bs3mb$24u@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 920756510 nnrp-10:8078 NO-IDENT p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 62 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!p850ug1.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Dan =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E5hlberg?= (dan.stahlberg@wineasy.se) wrote: : As part of a restoration project of the software for and old computer : from the 50's, we are looking for the physical format for paper tapes, : i. e. the distances between holes, sizes etc. We need it to build a : tape reader for the old paper tapes. There should be plenty of paper tape readers still around - I can see half a dozen withoug even getting up :-). There's probably no need to make a reader from scratch. : Any help or pointers to standards, web pages or documents or your own = : memories would truly be appreciated. The standard I remember (and don't have) is ECMA-10. I doubt if it's still available, though. My Facit 4070 punch service manual gives some specifications of the paper tape. They're in milimetres (which is crazy, because the original dimensions were almost certainly specified in inches), but here goes. I'll convert some of them to inches as well... Tape widths : 5 track : 17.46+/-0.08mm (11/16") 6 track, 7 track, 6 track typesetter tape : 22.23+/-0.08mm (7/8") 8 track : 25.40+/-0.08mm (1") Now, for all but typesetter tape, each row across the tape consists of 3 data holes, a smaller sproket hole, and then 2/3/4/5 data holes, depending on the number of tracks. The edge of the tape nearest to the 3-holes is the reference edge. The sprocket hole centre-line is 9.96+/-0.1mm (about 25/64") from the reference edge. The holes are spaced at 2.54+/-0.05mm(0.1") multiples from the sprocket holes. And the rows on the tape are also spaced at 2.54mm (0.1") multiples. In other words, the centres of the holes on the tape lie on a 0.1" * 0.1" grid. Data holes are 1.83 +/-0.05mm in diameter (72 thou). Sprocket holes are 1.17 (+0.05,-0.025)mm in diameter (46 thou). Typesetter tape is the odd one. It's 6 track, with a line of sprocket holes almost down the middle of the tape - 11.02+/-0.1mm from the reference edge (just unde 7.16"). I wonder if this is a typo, and that the sprocket track should be _on_ the centre line (11.12mm from the reference edge). Hole spacings and diameters are as above, apart from the fact that instead of the center line of the sprocket holes and data holes lining up, the leading edge does. In other words, the centres of the sprocket holes are displaced 0.33+/-0.02mm towards the front end of the tape. Hope that helps : Dan St=E5hlberg : dan.stahlberg@wineasy.se -tony ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 19:38:19 -0500 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 27 Message-ID: <36E1CA7B.56E0B365@stoneweb.com> References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> <8BeE2.1436$Ku1.1097337@newse3.tampabay.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zephyr.ultranet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 7 Mar 1999 00:38:20 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail Art Rice wrote: > > Paper tape was also used in printers. I might have a sample > of the old IBM style that I could measure for you. The paper tape in printers was used for vertical formatting control. I forget the exact bits, but if I recall correctly the "length" of the tape corresponded exactly to the length of the forms (or some multiple thereof) in the printer and a punch in one channel indicated "top of form" and punches in others were used as vertical tabs. > The old Teletype Corporation 33 and 35 models were actually > made by Ma Bell. The ASR-33/35 (KSR and RO, too) were manufactured by the Teletype Corporation ("Teletype" is a trademark) of Skokie, Illinois (USA). If they were a subsdiary of AT&T, that's news to me. -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 22:27:28 +0000 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <36E1ABD0.5D4B5F67@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 920762275 nnrp-10:11156 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Dan Ståhlberg wrote: > > As part of a restoration project of the software for and old computer > from the 50's, we are looking for the physical format for paper tapes, > i. e. the distances between holes, sizes etc. We need it to build a > tape reader for the old paper tapes. Is this something like the old Mercury machine, if so I can send you scans of some relevant material? -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals From: eric@fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape X-Nntp-Posting-Host: fudge.uchicago.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) X-Newsposter: Pnews 4.0-test51 (15 Jan 97) Organization: The University of Chicago References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> <8BeE2.1436$Ku1.1097337@newse3.tampabay.rr.com> <36E1CA7B.56E0B365@stoneweb.com> Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 06:57:24 GMT Lines: 10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news2.euro.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in4.uu.net!netsrv2!uchinews!not-for-mail Carl R. Friend wrote: > The ASR-33/35 (KSR and RO, too) were manufactured by the Teletype > Corporation ("Teletype" is a trademark) of Skokie, Illinois (USA). If > they were a subsdiary of AT&T, that's news to me. Teletype was founded in 1901 as Morkrum, after Joy Morton and Howard Krum. The name changed to Teletype in 1923, and it was bought by the Bell System in 1929. eric ###### From: J. Chris Hausler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Date: Sun, 7 Mar 99 12:38:51 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> <8BeE2.1436$Ku1.1097337@newse3.tampabay.rr.com> <36E1CA7B.56E0B365@stoneweb.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.93.4.2 X-To: Eric Fischer Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.delphi.com!news Eric Fischer writes: >Teletype was founded in 1901 as Morkrum, after Joy Morton and Howard >Krum. The name changed to Teletype in 1923, and it was bought by >the Bell System in 1929. > Fascinating! Do you have any further data on the early days of this company? Did they start making printing telegraphs or other products for the telegraph industry (there were many "mom and pop" telegraph equipment manufacturing companies as well as some large ones back then) or did they come to it later? Were Joy and Howard related in any way? There were also quite a number of different printing telegraphs back then but many suffered from poor performance under all but ideal conditions. Did they develop the "Teletype" mechanism themselves or did they buy (or borrow) the technology from someone else? Inquiring minds want to know :-) Chris ###### From: Bruce Bretschneider Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 21:17:25 -0800 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <36E35D65.7F5D@primenet.com> References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> Reply-To: brucebr@primenet.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-50-164.scf.primenet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Complaints-To: abuse@globalcenter.net X-Posted-By: @206.132.50.164 (brucebr) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nntp.flash.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail The early NC machines used 1" wide tape in ASCII format. I think that they had 8 holes, 7 were data and 1 was for parity. Bruce Bretschneider Dan St=E5hlberg wrote: > = > As part of a restoration project of the software for and old computer > from the 50's, we are looking for the physical format for paper tapes, > i. e. the distances between holes, sizes etc. We need it to build a > tape reader for the old paper tapes. > = > Any help or pointers to standards, web pages or documents or your own > memories would truly be appreciated. > = > Dan St=E5hlberg > dan.stahlberg@wineasy.se ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Date: 8 Mar 1999 14:29:51 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 36 Message-ID: <7c0msv$ms0@top.mitre.org> References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> <8BeE2.1436$Ku1.1097337@newse3.tampabay.rr.com> <36E1CA7B.56E0B365@stoneweb.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris "Carl R. Friend" writes: > The paper tape in printers was used for vertical formatting >control. I forget the exact bits, but if I recall correctly the >"length" of the tape corresponded exactly to the length of the forms >(or some multiple thereof) in the printer and a punch in one channel >indicated "top of form" and punches in others were used as vertical >tabs. Linear distance along a standard 12-channel "carriage tape" matched the vertical spacing on the actual output only at 6 lines/inch. Since that was the most common spacing it usually did match the tape, but most printers could also be set to 8 lpi. Many printer layout template sheets had not only the 132 horizontal spaces neatly ticked out on the page, but also showed a full-scale template of the carriage tape to let the designer indicate the channel punches for specific lines. Before someone files a formal objection: yes, there were printers with other than 132 print positions (120 and 144 were also commonly available) but the most common size was 132 -- since at 10 characters/inch that fit very nicely onto a 14" wide page. >> The old Teletype Corporation 33 and 35 models were actually >> made by Ma Bell. > The ASR-33/35 (KSR and RO, too) were manufactured by the Teletype >Corporation ("Teletype" is a trademark) of Skokie, Illinois (USA). If >they were a subsdiary of AT&T, that's news to me. I'm not sure when the company name was changed to "Teletype" but by the time that happened (*many* years ago) they were part of the Bell System. Joe Morris ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: eric@fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape X-Nntp-Posting-Host: fudge.uchicago.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) X-Newsposter: Pnews 4.0-test51 (15 Jan 97) Organization: The University of Chicago References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> <36E1CA7B.56E0B365@stoneweb.com> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 21:48:20 GMT Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!not-for-mail J. Chris Hausler wrote: > >Teletype was founded in 1901 as Morkrum, after Joy Morton and Howard > >Krum. The name changed to Teletype in 1923, and it was bought by > >the Bell System in 1929. > > Fascinating! Do you have any further data on the early days > of this company? I can summarize what F. J. Singer said in his chapter of _Engineering and Science in the Bell System_: In 1901, Joy Morton (the owner of Morton Salt, so don't get the idea this was a mom-and-pop company!) hired Ray Perne to try to convert a typewriter mechanism into a printer. Charles L. Krum, who then replaced Perne, succeeded in getting a Blicksenderfer and then an Oliver to work automatically. Krum's son Howard then joined the company and came up with a new (moving type-wheel) design that wasn't based on an existing typewriter. In 1913, Donald McNicol reported in _American Telegraph Practice_ that the Postal Telegraph-Cable company and Western Union were testing Morkrum equipment, as was the Canadian Pacific Railway. The tests must have succeeded, because in 1919 Erich Hausmann said (in _Telegraph Engineering_) that Morkrum equipment was in use by Western Union and Postal Telegraph-Cable. Hausmann, by the way, says that the Krum in the name is Charles, not Howard. According to Singer, Western Electric had been building its own line of teletypewriters since 1912 but was spending too much money on manufacturing. To cut costs, they contracted with Morkrum to build equipment to their specifications in 1923, and then eventually bought the company entirely. eric ###### From: "Doug Smith" Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Date: 9 Mar 1999 20:43:40 GMT Organization: Interface Computer Center (using Airnews.net!) Lines: 29 Message-ID: <5CD29F71FAC734C5.BC4818962C48FF17.8B070996198AC683@library-proxy.airnews.net> X-Orig-Message-ID: <01be6a6d$8808a500$86f79bce@dhs.artran.com> References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> Abuse-Reports-To: wsm1 at nwark.com to report improper postings NNTP-Proxy-Relay: library3 NNTP-Posting-Time: Tue Mar 9 14:43:42 1999 NNTP-Posting-Host: !d&Z3,(Ca.VoH43 (Encoded at Airnews!) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!worldfeed.news.gte.net!news.airnews.net!cabal11.airnews.net!cabal1.airnews.net!news-f.iadfw.net!usenet You might want to contact Western Numerical Control at 800-538-5108 or fax 916-477-1917 for tape readers, punches, tape etc. Good Luck! -- Doug Smith Product & Applications Manager Artran, Inc. www.artran.com Dan Ståhlberg wrote in article <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se>... As part of a restoration project of the software for and old computer from the 50's, we are looking for the physical format for paper tapes, i. e. the distances between holes, sizes etc. We need it to build a tape reader for the old paper tapes. Any help or pointers to standards, web pages or documents or your own memories would truly be appreciated. Dan Ståhlberg dan.stahlberg@wineasy.se ---------- ###### From: alex*@*rockvax.rockefeller.edu (Alexandre Pechtchanski) Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Organization: Rockefeller University Hospital (GCRC), New York Message-ID: <36e7f14b.6033785@Rockyd> References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> <36E35D65.7F5D@primenet.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 19 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:42:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.85.24.56 X-Trace: rockyd.rockefeller.edu 921170496 129.85.24.56 (Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:41:36 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 11:41:36 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!209.208.190.2!news.globix.net!newsfeed.nyu.edu!rockyd.rockefeller.edu!not-for-mail On Sun, 07 Mar 1999 21:17:25 -0800, Bruce Bretschneider wrote: [ answering to Dan Ståhlberg's question about paper tape's physical format ] >The early NC machines used 1" wide tape in ASCII format. I think that >they had 8 holes, 7 were data and 1 was for parity. > > Bruce Bretschneider The _early_ NC machines used wide (~1.5") magnetic tape where the impulses for step motors were directly recorded [1]. Next generation used narrow (5 hole) paper tape. I think Bruce is talking about 3rd generation NC tools. [1] These were the earliest designs that _I_ encountered, and I am not _that_ old ;-) [ When replying, remove *'s from address ] Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY ###### From: Bruce Bretschneider Newsgroups: alt.comp.periphs,alt.folklore.computers,alt.machines.cnc,comp.terminals Subject: Re: Looking for physical format of Paper Tape Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:53:11 -0800 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Lines: 40 Message-ID: <36E9E127.4FAF@primenet.com> References: <36E14EA6.7755182F@wineasy.se> <36E35D65.7F5D@primenet.com> <36e7f14b.6033785@Rockyd> Reply-To: brucebr@primenet.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-48-139.scf.primenet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Complaints-To: abuse@globalcenter.net X-Posted-By: @206.132.48.139 (brucebr) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.165.3.11!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail Thanks for the update. My first exposure to NC was with a Cinti-Matic drill with a paper tape reader. Since it was in a naval shipyard, I guess it is reasonable that it wasn't a very early generation. The government didn't jump on the bandwagon of new technology back in the early 70's, at least not for ship repair facilities. Bruce Bretschneider Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: > = > On Sun, 07 Mar 1999 21:17:25 -0800, Bruce Bretschneider > wrote: > [ answering to Dan St=E5hlberg's question about paper tape's physical f= ormat ] > = > >The early NC machines used 1" wide tape in ASCII format. I think that= > >they had 8 holes, 7 were data and 1 was for parity. > > > > Bruce Bretschneider > = > The _early_ NC machines used wide (~1.5") magnetic tape where the impul= ses for > step motors were directly recorded [1]. > Next generation used narrow (5 hole) paper tape. > I think Bruce is talking about 3rd generation NC tools. > = > [1] These were the earliest designs that _I_ encountered, and I am not = _that_ > old ;-) > = > [ When replying, remove *'s from address ] > Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY