From: gleason@mwk.com (Lee K. Gleason)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp11
Subject: looking for PDT-11's
Message-ID: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk>
Date: 5 Mar 99 16:16:13 CST
Reply-To: gleason at mwk.com
Organization: Control-G Consultants
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  Still looking for a PDT-11/130 or PDT-11/110 in good shape
to add to my collection...

Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
gleason@mwk.com

######

From: "anon" <anon@nospam.net>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp11
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:54:18 -0500
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Hey, I'd like a VXA computer running the VMT operation system. Also, I need
an 11/780 PDT for my collection. (I am a serious collector who knows
everything about the computers I collect)

<grin>


Lee K. Gleason wrote in message <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk>...
>
>
>  Still looking for a PDT-11/130 or PDT-11/110 in good shape
>to add to my collection...
>
>Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
>Control-G Consultants
>gleason@mwk.com

######

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp11
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com>
Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY
From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com
Message-ID: <36e0a7b4.0@news.wizvax.net>
Date: 5 Mar 1999 22:57:40 -0500
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In article <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com>, anon <anon@nospam.net> wrote:
>Hey, I'd like a VXA computer running the VMT operation system. Also, I need
>an 11/780 PDT for my collection. (I am a serious collector who knows
>everything about the computers I collect)
>
><grin>

Um, if your point is that Lee misspelled "PDP", bad news -- there *is* such
thing as a PDT-11.  DEC marketed microcomputers based on the LSI-11 chipset
as "programmed data terminals" or some such, for a while in the early 1980s.
There were three flavors -- /110, /130, and /150, I think the main difference
was packaging and mass storage (I have a /150 which is a cube with two RX01
floppy mechanisms stacked vertically, I've never seen the other two but at
least one of them used TU58 tapes instead of floppies).

I think there was an ad for these things on the back cover of some versions
of the VT100 owner's manual.

John Wilson
D Bit

######

From: "Carl R. Friend" <carl.friend@stoneweb.com>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:42:13 -0500
Organization: as little as possible!
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jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
> 
>  So what was the designation for DECtape drives?  Thanks in advance
> :-)

   TU-55 for the single transport model, TU-56 for the dual.

-- 
 ______________________________________________________________________
|                                                |                     |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin)            | West Boylston       |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast            | Massachusetts, USA  |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com                |                     |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum       | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|

######

From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp11
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: 6 Mar 1999 10:43:52 GMT
Organization: Daedalus Consulting
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In article <36e0a7b4.0@news.wizvax.net>, John Wilson <wilson@dbit.com> wrote:
>least one of them used TU58 tapes instead of floppies).

The PDT-11/130 and /110 live inside the VT100 chassis, with the /130
sporting TU58 transports in the front, below the CRT.

>I think there was an ad for these things on the back cover of some versions
>of the VT100 owner's manual.

I've only seen (and own) the /150, but my '79 terminals & communications
handbook has descriptions & piccies.

-- 
Don Stokes, Networking Consultant  http://www.daedalus.co.nz  +64 25 739 724

######

From: huge@nospam.demon.co.uk (Hugh Davies)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp11
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: 6 Mar 1999 11:47:40 GMT
Organization: Piglet's Pickles and Preserves
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In article <36e0a7b4.0@news.wizvax.net>, wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) writes:
>In article <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com>, anon <anon@nospam.net> wrote:
>>Hey, I'd like a VXA computer running the VMT operation system. Also, I need
>>an 11/780 PDT for my collection. (I am a serious collector who knows
>>everything about the computers I collect)
>>
>><grin>
>
>Um, if your point is that Lee misspelled "PDP", bad news -- there *is* such
>thing as a PDT-11.

What did you expect from a conspicuously anonymous poster? Everyone who posts
that way is an idiot.

-- 
       "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.axalotl.demon.co.uk/transport/FAQ.html
      [Substitute "axalotl" for "nospam" to email me]

######

From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 99 12:12:32 GMT
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.
Lines: 19
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References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <36e0a7b4.0@news.wizvax.net> <7br0t8$ss5$1@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz>
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In article <7br0t8$ss5$1@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz>,
   don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote:
>In article <36e0a7b4.0@news.wizvax.net>, John Wilson <wilson@dbit.com> 
wrote:
>>least one of them used TU58 tapes instead of floppies).
>
>The PDT-11/130 and /110 live inside the VT100 chassis, with the /130
>sporting TU58 transports in the front, below the CRT.
<snip>

Now I'm getting nutty.  I can't remember what the device
that used DECtapes was called.  Whenever you guys talk about
TU58s, I think DECtape even though I know you're talking about
those awful cassettes thingies.  So what was the designation
for DECtape drives?  Thanks in advance :-)

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

######

From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp11
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:21:01 -0800
Organization: Simco
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anon wrote in message <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com>...
>Hey, I'd like a VXA computer running the VMT operation system. Also, I
need
>an 11/780 PDT for my collection. (I am a serious collector who knows
>everything about the computers I collect)
>
Better come back in about 15 years when you can be a real old timer
instead of pretending.  Personally, I suspect PDTs are a rare commodity
these days.  My company used a few when they first came out, but the
reliability was so bad (the model with the 8" floppy had a severe
overheating problem) we gave up and went back to 11/03s  and 11/23s
instead.  They had other problems too, maxed out at 64K and couldn't run
the XM version of RT-11.  DEC didn't want you to gen your own version of
RT but with a bit of fiddling with the PDT floppy driver you could make
the single job or foreground/background versions and even run the
CTS-300 version of RT.  They were very portable though, nice for trade
shows and demos.
      Jack Peacock

######

From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 99 13:26:23 GMT
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <7brcih$4hj$2@antiochus.ultra.net>
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <36e0a7b4.0@news.wizvax.net> <7br0t8$ss5$1@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz> <7br883$5qq$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <36E130B5.6EADB7A8@stoneweb.com>
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In article <36E130B5.6EADB7A8@stoneweb.com>,
   "Carl R. Friend" <carl.friend@stoneweb.com> wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>>  So what was the designation for DECtape drives?  Thanks in advance
>> :-)
>
>   TU-55 for the single transport model, TU-56 for the dual.
>
Ah, thank you, thank you, thank you. :-) Cybercrud was not my
pot of tea.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

######

From: "Carl R. Friend" <carl.friend@stoneweb.com>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 19:50:22 -0500
Organization: as little as possible!
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References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <36e0a7b4.0@news.wizvax.net> <7br0t8$ss5$1@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz> <7br883$5qq$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <36E130B5.6EADB7A8@stoneweb.com> <7bs2ld$23h@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
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Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@stoneweb.com) wrote:
> :    TU-55 for the single transport model, TU-56 for the dual.
> Not strictly true. The TU55 was always a single transport, but the
> TU56 came in single and dual transport versions.

   That's news to me. I never saw a single transport TU-56. Thanks
for the clarification.
 
> The TU55 has totally different electronics from the TU56.

   Yes. The TU-55 used the older R- and G- type Flip chips. The -56
uses M- series logic. It was the relays in the TU-55s that drove me
bats for a while!

-- 
 ______________________________________________________________________
|                                                |                     |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin)            | West Boylston       |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast            | Massachusetts, USA  |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com                |                     |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum       | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|

######

From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: 6 Mar 1999 20:19:56 -0000
Organization: P850 User Group
Message-ID: <7bs2ld$23h@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <36e0a7b4.0@news.wizvax.net> <7br0t8$ss5$1@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz> <7br883$5qq$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <36E130B5.6EADB7A8@stoneweb.com>
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Carl R. Friend (carl.friend@stoneweb.com) wrote:
: jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
: > 
: >  So what was the designation for DECtape drives?  Thanks in advance
: > :-)

:    TU-55 for the single transport model, TU-56 for the dual.

Nitpick : 

Not strictly true. The TU55 was always a single transport, but the TU56 
came in single and dual transport versions.

I have a single-transport TU56 on my desk here, hooked up to a TD8E card 
in the PDP8 that sits alongside it. I also have all the maintenance docs 
on the TU55 and TU56, and I can assure you that the drive I have is 
essentially a TU56 with half the slots empty (The frontplate is even 
drilled for 2 sets of motors/heads/guides and a blanking plate is bolted 
over one half). The TU55 has totally different electronics from the TU56.

-tony

######

From: "anon" <anon@nospam.net>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp11
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:34:40 -0500
Organization: nospam!
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Please accept my aplologies. I stand corrected.


Jack Peacock wrote in message <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com>...
>anon wrote in message <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com>...
>>Hey, I'd like a VXA computer running the VMT operation system. Also, I
>need
>>an 11/780 PDT for my collection. (I am a serious collector who knows
>>everything about the computers I collect)
>>
>Better come back in about 15 years when you can be a real old timer
>instead of pretending.  Personally, I suspect PDTs are a rare commodity
>these days.  My company used a few when they first came out, but the
>reliability was so bad (the model with the 8" floppy had a severe
>overheating problem) we gave up and went back to 11/03s  and 11/23s
>instead.  They had other problems too, maxed out at 64K and couldn't run
>the XM version of RT-11.  DEC didn't want you to gen your own version of
>RT but with a bit of fiddling with the PDT floppy driver you could make
>the single job or foreground/background versions and even run the
>CTS-300 version of RT.  They were very portable though, nice for trade
>shows and demos.
>      Jack Peacock
>

######

Message-ID: <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 09:59:13 -0500
From: Jerome Fine <jhfine@idirect.com>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
To: Jack Peacock <peacock@simconv.com>
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com>
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>Jack Peacock wrote:

> [Snip]
> Personally, I suspect PDTs are a rare commodity
> these days.  My company used a few when they first came out, but the
> reliability was so bad (the model with the 8" floppy had a severe
> overheating problem) we gave up and went back to 11/03s  and 11/23s
> instead.  They had other problems too, maxed out at 64K and couldn't run
> the XM version of RT-11.  DEC didn't want you to gen your own version of
> RT but with a bit of fiddling with the PDT floppy driver you could make
> the single job or foreground/background versions and even run the
> CTS-300 version of RT.  They were very portable though, nice for trade
> shows and demos.
>       Jack Peacock

Jerome Fine replies:

There seems to be a bit of confusion in my mind about the PDT-11
models.  I have an old VT103 which I have not used in a long time.
It had a TU-58 dual tape drive in the bottom at one time which
was eventually replaced with an RD53 (but not an RQDX2 since
that took too much power - used a Sigma MFM dual 3rd party
controller with boot ROMs no less) and the backplane upgraded
to 22-bits and 4 Mbytes of memory installed.  I am led to believe that
the VT103 was quite different from the PDT-11.  Did the PDT-11
also have a Qbus backplane?  And did the PDT-11 require a
separate terminal as opposed the the VT103 which was mostly
just a VT100 with a Qbus 4 * quad backplane installed in the
right-hand space and the power supply increased plus a small fan
to remove the heat from the Qbus boards?  I remember trying
an M8192 11/73 CPU in the VT103 as well.

Sincerely yours,

Jerome Fine
RT-11/TSX-PLUS  User/Addict

######

From: Stuart Brook <sbrook@concentric.net>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: 07 Mar 1999 12:50:51 PST
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Jerome Fine wrote:
> 
> >Jack Peacock wrote:
> 
> > [Snip]
> > Personally, I suspect PDTs are a rare commodity
> > these days.  My company used a few when they first came out, but the
> > reliability was so bad (the model with the 8" floppy had a severe
> > overheating problem) we gave up and went back to 11/03s  and 11/23s
> > instead.  They had other problems too, maxed out at 64K and couldn't run
> > the XM version of RT-11.  DEC didn't want you to gen your own version of
> > RT but with a bit of fiddling with the PDT floppy driver you could make
> > the single job or foreground/background versions and even run the
> > CTS-300 version of RT.  They were very portable though, nice for trade
> > shows and demos.
> >       Jack Peacock
> 
> Jerome Fine replies:
> 
> There seems to be a bit of confusion in my mind about the PDT-11
> models.  I have an old VT103 which I have not used in a long time.
> It had a TU-58 dual tape drive in the bottom at one time which
> was eventually replaced with an RD53 (but not an RQDX2 since
> that took too much power - used a Sigma MFM dual 3rd party
> controller with boot ROMs no less) and the backplane upgraded
> to 22-bits and 4 Mbytes of memory installed.  I am led to believe that
> the VT103 was quite different from the PDT-11.  Did the PDT-11
> also have a Qbus backplane?  And did the PDT-11 require a
> separate terminal as opposed the the VT103 which was mostly
> just a VT100 with a Qbus 4 * quad backplane installed in the
> right-hand space and the power supply increased plus a small fan
> to remove the heat from the Qbus boards?  I remember trying
> an M8192 11/73 CPU in the VT103 as well.
> 
> Sincerely yours,
> 
> Jerome Fine
> RT-11/TSX-PLUS  User/Addict

No relationship at all.

It was a T-11 based processor on a single board ... no bus per se

The PDT-11 was about 10"*10"*14" box with the KXT11 SBC (Falcon)
computer and an 8" floppy commonly installed.

Stuart

######

From: frisbie@flying-disk.spamblock.com (Alan Frisbie)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Message-ID: <1999Mar7.143217.1477@flying-disk.spamblock.com>
Date: 7 Mar 99 14:32:17 PST
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com> <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com>
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In article <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com>, 
Jerome Fine <jhfine@idirect.com> writes:

> There seems to be a bit of confusion in my mind about the PDT-11
> models.

> I am led to believe that
> the VT103 was quite different from the PDT-11.  Did the PDT-11
> also have a Qbus backplane?  

No, the PDT-11 did not have any kind of a backplane.
There were several boards with ribbon cables between them.

The VT103 came out after the PDT-11, but inspired by it.
I am told that someone (customer?  DEC employee?) hacked
one together and showed it to DEC, who then turned it into
a product.

> And did the PDT-11 require a separate terminal 

The /110 and /130 did not, as they were built into a VT100.
The /150 did, as it was built into a dual-floppy enclosure.

The TU58 controller (in the /130) was also the rare parallel
interface.   Similarly, the floppy disk interface in the /150
was unique to the PDT-11.

I have a PDT-11/130, but the TU58 interface quit working.
I removed the PDT boards and now use it just as a VT100.
One of these days I intend to restore it to working condition.
I used to run (for very slow values of "run") RT-11 on it
regularly, but now it is the console terminal for my PDP-11.

Unfortunately, it is not in perfect condition.  My parrot
nibbled on the nameplate.

-- 
-- "From:" line deliberately munged to prevent harvesting by spambots.

--  Alan E. Frisbie             Frisbie "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com
--  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.

######

From: Stuart Brook <sbrook@concentric.net>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: 07 Mar 1999 17:44:27 PST
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
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John Wilson wrote:
> 
> In article <36E2E6A9.51AA@concentric.net>,
> Stuart Brook  <sbrook@no.spam.at.concentric.net> wrote:
> >It was a T-11 based processor on a single board ... no bus per se
> >
> >The PDT-11 was about 10"*10"*14" box with the KXT11 SBC (Falcon)
> >computer and an 8" floppy commonly installed.
> 
> Nitpick:  it wasn't a T11/Falcon, it was the LSI-11 chipset stuck on a
> board with no I/O bus (but a pair of 8085s which handled all I/O page
> accesses, extremely slowly -- I've always wanted to disassemble the 8085
> code and add a "format" command to the floppy controller, since the FD1771
> chip they used is capable of it).  At least this is true of the PDT-11/150
> model which sounds like what you're describing.  The /110 and /130 were
> completely different, at least physically, but I think they all predate
> the introduction of the DCT-11 CPU chip so I'd be surprised if they weren't
> also LSI-11 (chipset) based.
> 
> Some place I've got a printout of a chunk of the DEC internal "GROK::PDT"
> mailing list which among other things, gives the order number of the
> higher density version of the LSI-11 micROMs all on one chip, which would
> free up a socket so you could install the regular LSI-11 EIS/FIS option.
> 
> I really like the section in whichever PDT-11/150 manual that diagrams
> the preferred PDT-11/150 development platform, which was a PDP-11/03 with
> an RX0x disk drive, i.e. exactly equivalent to the PDT-11/150 itself but more
> expensive!  Totally silly, I certainly didn't have any trouble developing PDT
> stuff on the PDT itself (including a couple of Kermit projects, a toy BASIC
> interpreter, a stand-alone FORTH OS, PDP-8 cross-assembler, not just trivial
> stuff).
> 
> John Wilson
> D Bit
-0----------------

OK ... I'll believe that ... I'd assumed that the SBC falcon was the
board used in the PDT ... I've used the latter but not the former.

Stuart

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com> <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com> <36E2E6A9.51AA@concentric.net>
Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY
From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com
Message-ID: <36e30a27.0@news.wizvax.net>
Date: 7 Mar 1999 18:22:15 -0500
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In article <36E2E6A9.51AA@concentric.net>,
Stuart Brook  <sbrook@no.spam.at.concentric.net> wrote:
>It was a T-11 based processor on a single board ... no bus per se
>
>The PDT-11 was about 10"*10"*14" box with the KXT11 SBC (Falcon)
>computer and an 8" floppy commonly installed.

Nitpick:  it wasn't a T11/Falcon, it was the LSI-11 chipset stuck on a
board with no I/O bus (but a pair of 8085s which handled all I/O page
accesses, extremely slowly -- I've always wanted to disassemble the 8085
code and add a "format" command to the floppy controller, since the FD1771
chip they used is capable of it).  At least this is true of the PDT-11/150
model which sounds like what you're describing.  The /110 and /130 were
completely different, at least physically, but I think they all predate
the introduction of the DCT-11 CPU chip so I'd be surprised if they weren't
also LSI-11 (chipset) based.

Some place I've got a printout of a chunk of the DEC internal "GROK::PDT"
mailing list which among other things, gives the order number of the
higher density version of the LSI-11 micROMs all on one chip, which would
free up a socket so you could install the regular LSI-11 EIS/FIS option.

I really like the section in whichever PDT-11/150 manual that diagrams
the preferred PDT-11/150 development platform, which was a PDP-11/03 with
an RX0x disk drive, i.e. exactly equivalent to the PDT-11/150 itself but more
expensive!  Totally silly, I certainly didn't have any trouble developing PDT
stuff on the PDT itself (including a couple of Kermit projects, a toy BASIC
interpreter, a stand-alone FORTH OS, PDP-8 cross-assembler, not just trivial
stuff).

John Wilson
D Bit

######

From: billy@mix.com
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: 7 Mar 1999 21:37:54 GMT
Organization: Billy's Place
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Stuart Brook <sbrook@no.spam.at.concentric.net> writes:

> The PDT-11 was about 10"*10"*14" box with the KXT11 SBC (Falcon)
> computer and an 8" floppy commonly installed.

Looking at my PDT-11/150 Mini Maintenance Hardware Guide some of these
used the KDT11 LSI-11 'Intelligence Module' which also has an 8085 cpu
for I/O processing.  It and the floppy controller are mounted on top of
drive 0, which is on top of drive 1.  The top cover has a sloping front
panel with power and run lights, plus two more labeled 1 and 2.  RT-ll's
XL (comm) handler has an assembly option to use these to indicate if send
and receive flow controls have been asserted.

While we're talking about all this - the Falcon has a speed-settable comm
port and I put some code in Kermit's KM comm handler for that but I've yet
to find a system to test it.  If anyone has one of these running RT-11 I'd
sure like to hear from you...!

Billy Y..

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <36E32B7A.319D@concentric.net> <7bvevp$idk$2@spitting-spider.aracnet.com> <F89EHH.FLz@world.std.com>
Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY
From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com
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In article <F89EHH.FLz@world.std.com>, Megan <mbg@world.std.com> wrote:
>Generally in a BA11-VA (the SB-11, or shoebox-11).  I've got a number
>of these boxes, and they just don't have the guts (ps-wise) to handle
>a faster machines PLUS memory PLUS terminal interface PLUS disk
>interface...

I've done some playing around with a BA11-VA box over the past couple of
weeks with good success.  It's got a KDJ11A, aftermarket 1 MB RAM, CQD220A,
and DLV11J, with the backplane upgraded to Q22 and a perf board hanging off
of it with a PIC chip driving the BEVNT L line for the line clock (since
the PSU doesn't bother to drive that line).  Runs nicely off a Zip disk,
although admittedly I haven't tried leaving it on 24/7, just a few hours at
a time while I mess with the PIC 60 Hz timing loops.  What an amazingly cute
box, I love the idea of a real live PDP-11 that's smaller than a desktop PC!
I wonder whether it's just a matter of time before I fry it, or whether using
a few non-DEC parts lowers the power consumption barely enough?  Building a
Q22 bus static RAM board that ran on practically nothing would be easy...

John Wilson
D Bit

######

From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell2.aracnet.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: 8 Mar 1999 03:05:27 GMT
Organization: Aracnet
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In alt.sys.pdp11 Alan Frisbie <frisbie@flying-disk.spamblock.com> wrote:
> The VT103 came out after the PDT-11, but inspired by it.
> I am told that someone (customer?  DEC employee?) hacked
> one together and showed it to DEC, who then turned it into
> a product.

Hmmm, sounds a little like the one system I've got.  It's a VT100 that has
had a backplane and some other bits added to it.  When I got it in a pile of
stuff it had been converted back into a VT100 with the bits all carefully
packed in a box, except the SLU.  Now that I've got a spare SLU I really
should dig it out of storage and see about getting it running.  It has a
11/03 CPU board, and looks a LOT more interesting than the 11/03 systems I
got at the same time.

IIRC, it came from a company in Texas according to the name plate.

			Zane

-- 
One of these day's I've got to quit being lazy and come up with a signature.
<<Yawn>>

######

From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell2.aracnet.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: 8 Mar 1999 03:08:41 GMT
Organization: Aracnet
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In alt.sys.pdp11 Stuart Brook <sbrook@concentric.net> wrote:
> OK ... I'll believe that ... I'd assumed that the SBC falcon was the
> board used in the PDT ... I've used the latter but not the former.

Out of curiousity what were the Falcon boards used in?  I've got a pair of
boards I picked up recently that I've not had time to check out really, but
looking at the basic specs on them they look to be interesting.

			Zane

-- 
One of these day's I've got to quit being lazy and come up with a signature.
<<Yawn>>

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan)
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Message-ID: <F89DK2.5yJ@world.std.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 04:24:02 GMT
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com> <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com> <36E2E6A9.51AA@concentric.net>
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
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Stuart Brook <sbrook@concentric.net> writes:


>It was a T-11 based processor on a single board ... no bus per se

>The PDT-11 was about 10"*10"*14" box with the KXT11 SBC (Falcon)
>computer and an 8" floppy commonly installed.

>Stuart

And what have *you* been drinking, Stuart?  The PDT-11/110 and PDT-11/130
both were built into VT100 terminal cases.  The -11/110 had no storage
device... it used the same down-line load protocol as the GT40.  The
-11/130 had TU58s as the system device.  The PDT-11/150 was in the box you
mentioned, but it did NOT contain a KXT11 SBC board!  It didn't even use a
T-11 processor.  None of them did.  It used the same 5-chip CPU set as you
would see on an 11/03 or 11/2 cpu card.  It was also possible to remove
the two microms (3007 and 3010) and replace them with a dual microm and
the EIS/FIS microm... 

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan)
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Message-ID: <F89Dp5.7Gz@world.std.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 04:27:04 GMT
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com> <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com>
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
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Jerome Fine <jhfine@idirect.com> writes:

>There seems to be a bit of confusion in my mind about the PDT-11
>models.  I have an old VT103 which I have not used in a long time.
>It had a TU-58 dual tape drive in the bottom at one time which
>was eventually replaced with an RD53 (but not an RQDX2 since
>that took too much power - used a Sigma MFM dual 3rd party
>controller with boot ROMs no less) and the backplane upgraded
>to 22-bits and 4 Mbytes of memory installed.  I am led to believe that
>the VT103 was quite different from the PDT-11.  Did the PDT-11

You're right...

>also have a Qbus backplane?  And did the PDT-11 require a

No, the PDT did not have a backplane at all.  It was three
discrete boards, one large and two smaller ones, with the
two smaller ones attached to the large one (the TIM module
set).

>separate terminal as opposed the the VT103 which was mostly
>just a VT100 with a Qbus 4 * quad backplane installed in the
>right-hand space and the power supply increased plus a small fan
>to remove the heat from the Qbus boards?  I remember trying
>an M8192 11/73 CPU in the VT103 as well.

The PDT-11/110 and PDT-11/130 had a terminal built in -- the
VT100 which they were built into.  The PDT-11/150 was a self-
contained machine (cpu, memory, terminal interfaces, disks)
and simply needed any sort of terminal.

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan)
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Message-ID: <F89E0B.AK8@world.std.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 04:33:47 GMT
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com> <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com> <36E2E6A9.51AA@concentric.net> <36e30a27.0@news.wizvax.net> <36E32B7A.319D@concentric.net>
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Stuart Brook <sbrook@concentric.net> writes:

>> Some place I've got a printout of a chunk of the DEC internal "GROK::PDT"
>> mailing list which among other things, gives the order number of the
>> higher density version of the LSI-11 micROMs all on one chip, which would
>> free up a socket so you could install the regular LSI-11 EIS/FIS option.

Thanks for reminding me about that... I was the longest-lived of the
moderators for the 'Small Systems Digest', as the mailing was called.
I had all sorts of command procedures and teco macros to help me
assemble, edit and distribute the digest... I used to have archives
of it, but in one of our moves, the archives disk died without a
good backup...

One of the interesting things about the PDT-11/130 and 11/150 were
the fact that the handlers didn't really have to do that much.  The
ROMs for the machines knew all about RT-11 queue elements, and all
the handler had to do was call the rom at the appropriate entry
point, and it returned with success or failure... (actually, I think
it returned only on error, so the handler could return the information)

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan)
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Message-ID: <F89E43.BH1@world.std.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 04:36:03 GMT
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com> <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com> <36E2E6A9.51AA@concentric.net> <7burji$8vf$2@nnrp03.primenet.com>
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Lines: 28
Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!cyclone.swbell.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in4.uu.net!world!mbg

billy@mix.com writes:

>panel with power and run lights, plus two more labeled 1 and 2.  RT-ll's
>XL (comm) handler has an assembly option to use these to indicate if send
>and receive flow controls have been asserted.

Yep... at one point was also had the RT-11 null job play with the lights.

>While we're talking about all this - the Falcon has a speed-settable comm
>port and I put some code in Kermit's KM comm handler for that but I've yet
>to find a system to test it.  If anyone has one of these running RT-11 I'd
>sure like to hear from you...!

There is also a conditional in XL (XL$SBC) which enables speed setting
on the SBC-11/21[+]...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan)
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Message-ID: <F89E6A.C2B@world.std.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 04:37:21 GMT
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com> <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com> <1999Mar7.143217.1477@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <7bvepn$idk$1@spitting-spider.aracnet.com>
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Lines: 26
Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.swbell.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in1.uu.net!world!mbg

"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell2.aracnet.com> writes:

>Hmmm, sounds a little like the one system I've got.  It's a VT100 that has
>had a backplane and some other bits added to it.  When I got it in a pile of
>stuff it had been converted back into a VT100 with the bits all carefully
>packed in a box, except the SLU.  Now that I've got a spare SLU I really
>should dig it out of storage and see about getting it running.  It has a
>11/03 CPU board, and looks a LOT more interesting than the 11/03 systems I
>got at the same time.

Don't let that chassis get away from you... the power supply in a
VT103 has more guts than the one which comes in a pure VT100... the
latter could not handle the power requirements of the terminal AND
a processor in the backplane...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan)
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Message-ID: <F89EHH.FLz@world.std.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 04:44:05 GMT
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com> <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com> <36E2E6A9.51AA@concentric.net> <36e30a27.0@news.wizvax.net> <36E32B7A.319D@concentric.net> <7bvevp$idk$2@spitting-spider.aracnet.com>
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Lines: 32
Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!news2.euro.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in2.uu.net!world!mbg

"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell2.aracnet.com> writes:

>Out of curiousity what were the Falcon boards used in?  I've got a pair of
>boards I picked up recently that I've not had time to check out really, but
>looking at the basic specs on them they look to be interesting.

Generally in a BA11-VA (the SB-11, or shoebox-11).  I've got a number
of these boxes, and they just don't have the guts (ps-wise) to handle
a faster machines PLUS memory PLUS terminal interface PLUS disk
interface...  A KDJ11-A, MXV11-B and RQDX3 cause the power supply
to crowbar.  I've had to split such a machine into two boxes, with
a qbus backplane jumper (BCV1B) between them.  KDJ11A, MXV11-A in
the first, RQDX3 and DEQNA in the second...  and even then the system
has been flakey.

So I've also got (somewhere) a machine which consists of just an
SBC-11/21+ and RQDX3.  I used it for test and support of the Falcon
back when we added Falcon support to RT-11.

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

######

From: pechter@news.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Date: 8 Mar 1999 07:40:02 -0500
Organization: Lakewood MicroSystems, Tinton Falls, NJ.
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <7c0gf2$5if@pechter.ddns.org>
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com> <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com> <36E2E6A9.51AA@concentric.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bg-tc-ppp75.monmouth.com
Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.monmouth.com!not-for-mail

In article <36E2E6A9.51AA@concentric.net>,
Stuart Brook  <sbrook@no.spam.at.concentric.net> wrote:
>Jerome Fine wrote:
>> 
>> >Jack Peacock wrote:
>> 
>> > [Snip]
>> > Personally, I suspect PDTs are a rare commodity
>> > these days.  My company used a few when they first came out, but the
>> > reliability was so bad (the model with the 8" floppy had a severe
>> > overheating problem) we gave up and went back to 11/03s  and 11/23s
>> > instead.  They had other problems too, maxed out at 64K and couldn't run
>> > the XM version of RT-11.  DEC didn't want you to gen your own version of
>> > RT but with a bit of fiddling with the PDT floppy driver you could make
>> > the single job or foreground/background versions and even run the
>> > CTS-300 version of RT.  They were very portable though, nice for trade
>> > shows and demos.
>> >       Jack Peacock
>> 
>It was a T-11 based processor on a single board ... no bus per se
>
>The PDT-11 was about 10"*10"*14" box with the KXT11 SBC (Falcon)
>computer and an 8" floppy commonly installed.
>
>Stuart

Dead wrong...
The only DEC machine I know that used a T11 (as other than an embedded part)
was the 8600/8650 Vax.  There were T11 eval boards, I think, though.

The PDT used an LSI 11 chipset on it's own board.  The board interconnects
were made by spring metal stacking connectors under pressure (lousy idea,
but it was cheap and saved space).

You could add the EIS/FIS roms and put up to 64kb (32kw) of memory
on it.  A couple of folks were trying to get a hard disk to work with
it in the old MFM WD1002 days.

Probably could be done easily now with the IDE and SCSI low power
devices out.

Since the IDE and SCSI just need a parallel bus connection and a driver
to work they'd probably be doable.

Too bad there wasn't any parallel port output off the machine.

Imagine a PDT with a 40mb or more IDE/SCSI.  You'd need a device driver,
though, since it wouldn't be emulating any DEC hardware.

Bill
-- 
---
  bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.ddns.org
      Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC,
      The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check.

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan)
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Message-ID: <F8A3As.37J@world.std.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:40:04 GMT
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <36E32B7A.319D@concentric.net> <7bvevp$idk$2@spitting-spider.aracnet.com> <F89EHH.FLz@world.std.com> <36e36d84.0@news.wizvax.net>
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Lines: 27
Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!news.new-york.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in3.uu.net!world!mbg

wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) writes:

>I've done some playing around with a BA11-VA box over the past couple of
>weeks with good success.  It's got a KDJ11A, aftermarket 1 MB RAM, CQD220A,
>and DLV11J, with the backplane upgraded to Q22 and a perf board hanging off
>of it with a PIC chip driving the BEVNT L line for the line clock (since

I should upgrade my -VA boxes to 22-bit... and I'd be interested in the
circuit for driving BEVNT... That is, I think, part of the reason the
machine I have cobbled together is flakey... sometimes I'm able to
power it on in the right sequence such that it works, some times not...

>box, I love the idea of a real live PDP-11 that's smaller than a desktop PC!

That's why I like them so much too...

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
References: <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <F89EHH.FLz@world.std.com> <36e36d84.0@news.wizvax.net> <F8A3As.37J@world.std.com>
Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY
From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com
Message-ID: <36e49061.0@news.wizvax.net>
Date: 8 Mar 1999 22:07:13 -0500
X-Trace: 8 Mar 1999 22:07:13 -0500, dbit.dbit.com
Lines: 40
Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.wizvax.net!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!wilson

In article <F8A3As.37J@world.std.com>, Megan <mbg@world.std.com> wrote:
>and I'd be interested in the
>circuit for driving BEVNT... That is, I think, part of the reason the
>machine I have cobbled together is flakey... sometimes I'm able to
>power it on in the right sequence such that it works, some times not...

OK, I embedded the schematic in the (tiny) source file, which is

	ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pic/kw11l.asm
   (or http://www...)

If any PIC guru wants to tell me why my little delay loop runs just a tiny
bit slow I'd love to hear it.  I thought I was being so sneaky with keeping
track of the fraction in the divisor, every single cycle is accounted for
(or at least they're supposed to be) but it's still not quite dead-on.
It seems unlikely that it's the crystal's fault, I must have missed something.

For those who don't know (I'm late to this party so I may have been the only
one), PIC16F84s can usually be burned off of a regular PC serial port using
just a few other parts (I used the COM84.GIF schematic that's floating
around the net -- 3 resistors, one cap, a diode, and a 78L05), using a
variety of freeware programmers including my P84.COM program (in the same
directory as above).  I haven't tried it but I think the same burner circuit
would work off of a DL(V)11 port with modem control, the only tricky thing
is the lack of a high-resolution clock in most PDP-11s, but I'm thinking
of trying an RT-11 port of P84.COM which would do the timing by sending
NULs out the port itself (which is held in BREAK during programming anyway,
timing BREAKs with NULs is familiar territory so I guess the usual problems
with double-buffered UARTs apply), assuming the baud rate is known.

An 8-pin PIC would make even more sense for a trivial task like this
(especially at under $2/ea!), but I can't figure out Microchip's programming
spec for this -- the protocol looks very similar to the PIC16F84 serial
protocol, but then there's a lot of talk about programming pulses and stuff
which sounds more like good ol' 27xx EPROMs and anyway doesn't seem to have
anything to do with the timing diagrams in the back.  I wonder if I'm just
being dense, or whether they may have cut & pasted the wrong stuff together.

John Wilson
D Bit

######

From:  <stuartb@acm.org>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
References: <F89E6A.C2B@world.std.com> <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com> <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com> <1999Mar7.143217.1477@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <7bvepn$idk$1@spitting-spider.aracnet.com>
Sender: stuart@nomad
X-Newsreader: SimpleNews-0.1  linux/i586
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <e10F2.324$L35.889035@news2.mco>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 02:51:54 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: host-209-214-194-35.mem.bellsouth.net
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 21:51:54 EST
Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl!upstream.atl!news2.mco.POSTED!not-for-mail

mbg@world.std.com (Megan) wrote:
>"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell2.aracnet.com> writes:
>
>>Hmmm, sounds a little like the one system I've got.  It's a VT100 that has
>>had a backplane and some other bits added to it.  When I got it in a pile of
>>stuff it had been converted back into a VT100 with the bits all carefully
>>packed in a box, except the SLU.  Now that I've got a spare SLU I really
>>should dig it out of storage and see about getting it running.  It has a
>>11/03 CPU board, and looks a LOT more interesting than the 11/03 systems I
>>got at the same time.
>
>Don't let that chassis get away from you... the power supply in a
>VT103 has more guts than the one which comes in a pure VT100... the
>latter could not handle the power requirements of the terminal AND
>a processor in the backplane...

That raises a question I've thought about for a while.  Some time
back I bought a PDT-11 board set (including the connector
laden back panel insert) from a DEC field service guy.  I've
wondered what it would take to get it up and running.  Is it
possible to take a stock VT-103 and install the boards in it?
How much trouble would it be to install the TU-58 drives as
well?  Or would I be better off just continuing to keep an
eye open for a shell from a real PDT-11/130?

Brian L. Stuart

######

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,alt.folklore.computers
From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan)
Subject: Re: looking for PDT-11's
Message-ID: <F8BAu7.DxI@world.std.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 05:20:30 GMT
References: <F89E6A.C2B@world.std.com> <4ifc8+zeakMO@mwk> <7bq56m$vqk$1@camel29.mindspring.com> <7bs2nq$r7u$1@remarQ.com> <36E29441.17D34B3A@idirect.com> <1999Mar7.143217.1477@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <7bvepn$idk$1@spitting-spider.aracnet.com> <e10F2.32
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Lines: 33
Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.new-york.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in1.uu.net!world!mbg

<stuartb@acm.org> writes:

>That raises a question I've thought about for a while.  Some time
>back I bought a PDT-11 board set (including the connector
>laden back panel insert) from a DEC field service guy.  I've
>wondered what it would take to get it up and running.  Is it
>possible to take a stock VT-103 and install the boards in it?
>How much trouble would it be to install the TU-58 drives as
>well?  Or would I be better off just continuing to keep an
>eye open for a shell from a real PDT-11/130?

The problem is that a PDT-11/130 does not have a backplane the
way the VT103 does... A VT103 should have an H9270 backplane
(Q18/Q18).  The PDT-11/130 doesn't have boards which plug into
any bus.

You could, however, take out the backplane and cobble some power
wiring together to power the boards.  The dodgey part is connecting
the console serial line to the VT100 Basic Video board via the STP
connector.

					Megan Gentry
					Former RT-11 Developer

+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL   | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group |          (home):  mbg!world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation    | addresses need '@' in place of '!'  |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43   | URL:     http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | 
| Nashua, NH 03062               | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055                 |  required." - mbg                   |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+