From: civhr@torduff.hw.ac.uk (H. Reinecke) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Sigh ... And a again a piece of history gone Date: 04 Feb 1999 17:05:48 +0000 Organization: Heriot-Watt University Lines: 19 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: torduff.hw.ac.uk X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server5.netnews.ja.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!news-serv.hw.ac.uk!not-for-mail Hi folks, And a again a piece of history has been thrown in the skip. We just dumped a PDP-11 and a VAX, alongside with various tapes and monitors. I almost thought of keeping one of them monitors since them being original DEC (no more emulating vt100!), but decided against it. Not that I actually wanted to use either of them machines (and most probably couldn't, did'nt have the right mains connector), but it still made me sad. (At least they have been decent machines, not like the crappy stuff you'll get nowadays. Apart from DEC alpha, of course.) Cheers, Hannes -- Speaking from experience, there is a very satisfying *bang* when a high- speed rotor decides to split itself into three segments. Gerry Milne in a.f.p. ###### From: cjt&trefoil Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sigh ... And a again a piece of history gone Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:38:23 -0600 Organization: Prodigy Services, Inc Lines: 27 Message-ID: <36B9F72F.4499@prodigy.net> References: Reply-To: cheljuba@prodigy.net NNTP-Posting-Host: dllsb305-29.splitrock.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com 918157114 2709921 209.156.44.167 (4 Feb 1999 19:38:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Feb 1999 19:38:34 GMT To: "H. Reinecke" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nyd.news.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newscon05!prodigy.com!not-for-mail H. Reinecke wrote: > > Hi folks, > > And a again a piece of history has been thrown in the skip. We just > dumped a PDP-11 and a VAX, alongside with various tapes and monitors. > I almost thought of keeping one of them monitors since them being > original DEC (no more emulating vt100!), but decided against it. > Not that I actually wanted to use either of them machines (and most > probably couldn't, did'nt have the right mains connector), but it > still made me sad. > (At least they have been decent machines, not like the crappy stuff > you'll get nowadays. Apart from DEC alpha, of course.) > > Cheers, > > Hannes > -- > Speaking from experience, there is a very satisfying *bang* when a high- > speed rotor decides to split itself into three segments. > Gerry Milne in a.f.p. I don't recall seeing an offer to sell or give it away here in a.f.c. -- although it's no certainty, someone may have come forward to save it had they had the opportunity. JMHO. ###### From: huge@nospam.demon.co.uk (Hugh Davies) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sigh ... And a again a piece of history gone Date: 4 Feb 1999 19:17:04 GMT Organization: Piglet's Pickles and Preserves Message-ID: <79crng$fqq@axalotl.demon.co.uk> References: Reply-To: huge@nospam.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: axalotl.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: axalotl.demon.co.uk:158.152.24.143 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 918162644 nnrp-12:8359 NO-IDENT axalotl.demon.co.uk:158.152.24.143 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net x-no-archive: yes Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!axalotl.demon.co.uk!axalotl!usenet In article , civhr@torduff.hw.ac.uk (H. Reinecke) writes: >Hi folks, > >And a again a piece of history has been thrown in the skip. We just >dumped a PDP-11 and a VAX, alongside with various tapes and monitors. Err, why didn't you post here to see if anyone wanted them? I'm always on the lookout for PDP-11 stuff. -- "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse." The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.axalotl.demon.co.uk/transport/FAQ.html [Substitute "axalotl" for "nospam" to email me] ###### From: Lee Courtney Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Sigh ... And a again a piece of history gone(longish) Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 18:37:19 -0800 Organization: Monterey Software Group Inc. +1 (650) 964-7052 Lines: 117 Message-ID: <36BA595F.3BF7E78A@slip.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: sf-usr1-9-137.dialup.slip.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news2.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.slip.net!news.slip.net!not-for-mail H. Reinecke wrote: > Hi folks, > > And a again a piece of history has been thrown in the skip. We just > dumped a PDP-11 and a VAX, alongside with various tapes and monitors. Sigh! I may have missed something, but was a notice advertising availability of the system posted to ALT.FOLKLORE.COMPUTERS(A.F.C) or ALT.SYS.PDP11/10? I have ~500SF of unused space in the back of my business WITH several heavy duty power circuits installed by the previous occupants who were designing a prototype flight simulator. Would have made a good (albeit perhaps temporary) home for such a system. Now that I've said that, I have to confess to performing the same act about four years ago. My company had an HP3000/42 minicomputer fully stocked with software and peripherals. This was the machine we first developed our software on in 87/88, but has been obsoleted by subsequent RISC based hardware. Nevertheless, had a CPU and 5 discs all about the size of a washing machine along with a line printer and reel-to-reel tape drive, and networking setup, all worked great although sometimes slowly. One day when wearing my business justification hat, I decided that it was not worth paying for the machine room floor space (although our landlord paid utilities which makes a BIG difference). However before throwing (well maybe grunting and groaning) it into the dumpster, I called several schools, colleges, and non profits to see if they'd be interested in the system. I actually had one school administrator laugh at me when I told him what I had. They only used PCs and what possible use would a minicomputer be to them(he was right). One non-profit came down to take a look, but when they saw the size said no-thanks cause they didn't have the space (or power). That was before I knew about A.F.C, Computer History Center, collectors, etc. I REALLY (really really) wished I had stashed the system in my garage, but I'd rather be laughed at than face my wife when she walked in the door afterwards and asked what that thing was doing in the garage! Now (verses when we tossed the 42) I have a significant amount of unused space (BTW available for rent in the middle of Silicon Valley for below market rate, new carpet, paint, roll-up door!) where I could store such a system. However, the businessman in me asks what is this overhead contributing to the success of the enterprise, and if the answer is on balance zero or negative its gone. From a business perspective I, and others, can't justify keeping this stuff for sentimental or historic reasons. And I believe VERY strongly that these systems do have historic value - a fact we are/will learn as time passes. But real-estate in Silicon Valley is outrageously expensive along with all the other details you have to worry about like taxes, advertising, payroll, expensive consultants, blah, blah, blah... This raises two questions: 1. How can a business or organization with obsolete, but still functional, technology make sure that something that has historical significance get into hands which will maintain that technology for future use and/or study? 2. How can an individual or organization interested in preserving or using this technology intercept stuff before it ends up in the dumpster? First pass answers ================== 1. Contacting organizations like the Computer History Center, Computer History Assoc. Cal. (are they still around?), museums, etc. Advertising on A.F.C, any relevant newsgroups related to the vendor of the equipment. Talking to used equipment dealers - I know a couple that have stashed some older systems in the back of their warehouses. They might be able to answer if the system has any historic value. When talking to used equipment dealers I think one has to be careful. Sales guys will not want to waste any time with you, and some dealers in general will confuse historic value with scrap value. I suspect the used computer marketplace route can be problematic (comments?). With our Series 42 used equipment brokers weren't interested because the technology was so old - this should have triggered an alarm that maybe it was now historic! 2. My first guess is networking with anyone and everyone. Watching relevant newsgroups. Staying plugged in. (Hey, a Web site! - other than E-Bay) A comment about getting to a system before it hits the dumpster. Unfortunately myself and others involved with an active restoration project could have benefited from a more careful de-installation of the system we are working on. Careful de-installation, cataloging, and storage of a system can make a later restoration much easier (but we're still having a lot fun and making significant progress ;-)! ). If offered the chance to acquire a system I would want to have access BEFORE it was even powered down so that its function could be documented. Then all cabinets, parts, cables, etc. carefully cataloged. A baseline reference version of the system and other software created. Then document the de-installation. Unfortunately it seems too many older systems have been de-installed with wire cutters and hack-saws. Personally I am more inclined to see something go to an organization rather than an individual collector. Only because I think the systems, their associated history, and contributions are more easily displayed to the general public via a team effort than sitting in the corner of an individuals garage. This generalization has exceptions on both sides of the coin - I have been disappointed in some organizations, while some individuals are going above and beyond the call of duty in the preservation department. With the Y2K deadline already here (some businesses FY2000 started this month) I expect we'll see older technology which hasn't yet been turned off being moved out the door. Comments? Experiences? Note: All the above justifications and pontificating go out the window the second I run across an XDS Sigma, 360/370, or DEC20 in need of a home - the cars can learn to live in the driveway! Regards, Lee Courtney President -- Monterey Software Group Inc. Voice: 650-964-7052 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Fax: 650-964-6735 Mountain View, California 94043-1302 Pager: 408-237-1705 Email: leec AT-SIGN slip DOT net www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan) Subject: Re: Sigh ... And a again a piece of history gone(longish) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 21:03:19 GMT References: <36BA595F.3BF7E78A@slip.net> Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!209.208.190.2!news.globix.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in1.uu.net!world!mbg Lee Courtney writes: >Now that I've said that, I have to confess to performing the same act about four >years ago. My company had an HP3000/42 minicomputer fully stocked with software >and peripherals. This was the machine we first developed our software on in Arrggg... >This raises two questions: >1. How can a business or organization with obsolete, but still functional, >technology make sure that something that has historical significance get into >hands which will maintain that technology for future use and/or study? If you don't want to have to take the time to figure out which group would be appropraite, you could always send a mail message to classiccmp@u.washington.edu and people interested in the specific machine, or those interested in saving a part of computing history will come out of the woodwork to collect it up... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+