From: Erik de Jonge Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: history of joysticks Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:29:27 +0100 Organization: Erasmus Universiteit Rotterdam Lines: 15 Message-ID: <36A87D37.463D7B8F@cybercomm.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: uil.tch.fgg.eur.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/715) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!surfnet.nl!surfnet.nl!eur.nl!news.fgg.eur.nl!usenet hello, pardon me for this interuption, At my work is this man who build a joystick for video-image processing in 1969, he built it without ever seeing one before. Could this be the world's first joystick? Sincerely Erik de Jonge Erasmus University Rotterdam. ###### From: jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: history of joysticks Date: 22 Jan 1999 14:29:22 GMT Organization: The University of Iowa Lines: 21 Message-ID: <78a202$jv4$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> References: <36A87D37.463D7B8F@cybercomm.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!masternews.telia.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news-feed1.eu.concert.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!24.130.1.14!lsnws01.we.mediaone.net!24.131.1.12!denws01.mw.mediaone.net!news.altair.com!NewsNG.Chicago.Qual.Net!128.255.56.80!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail From article <36A87D37.463D7B8F@cybercomm.nl>, by Erik de Jonge : > At my work is this man who build a joystick for video-image processing > in 1969, he built it without ever seeing one before. No, but that was the era in which many people built such things from vague descriptions they'd heard. I encountered joysticks back around 1967 at the University of Michigan, where they had a DDP 224 computer (a 24 bit word, made by Computer Control Corporation, soon to be bought by Honeywell) with a flying spot scanner, graphics display, dual joysticks and light pen. The official job of this machine was to scan bubble chamber film -- the operators would use the joysticks and light pen to extract the relevant info from each frame of film. When I saw the machine, it was being used to play spacewar. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu ###### From: Erik de Jonge Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: history of joysticks Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:20:17 +0100 Organization: Erasmus Universiteit Rotterdam Lines: 73 Message-ID: <36A89731.4DC54CE8@cybercomm.nl> References: <36A87D37.463D7B8F@cybercomm.nl> <78a202$jv4$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: uil.tch.fgg.eur.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A77580F01BF51A58B5F94488" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/715) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!remarQ-uK!supernews.com!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!surfnet.nl!eur.nl!news.fgg.eur.nl!usenet --------------A77580F01BF51A58B5F94488 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879 wrote: > From article <36A87D37.463D7B8F@cybercomm.nl>, > by Erik de Jonge : > > > At my work is this man who build a joystick for video-image processing > > in 1969, he built it without ever seeing one before. > > No, but that was the era in which many people built such things from vague > descriptions they'd heard. > > I encountered joysticks back around 1967 at the University of Michigan, > where they had a DDP 224 computer (a 24 bit word, made by Computer Control > Corporation, soon to be bought by Honeywell) with a flying spot scanner, > graphics display, dual joysticks and light pen. The official job of this > machine was to scan bubble chamber film -- the operators would use the > joysticks and light pen to extract the relevant info from each frame of > film. > > When I saw the machine, it was being used to play spacewar. > > Doug Jones > jones@cs.uiowa.edu thank you for your swift reaction, it's very clear. that must have been some expensive gaming btw... --------------A77580F01BF51A58B5F94488 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879 wrote:
From article <36A87D37.463D7B8F@cybercomm.nl>,
by Erik de Jonge <erikdj@cybercomm.nl>:

> At my work is this man who build a joystick for video-image processing
> in 1969, he built it without ever seeing one before.

No, but that was the era in which many people built such things from vague
descriptions they'd heard.

I encountered joysticks back around 1967 at the University of Michigan,
where they had a DDP 224 computer (a 24 bit word, made by Computer Control
Corporation, soon to be bought by Honeywell) with a flying spot scanner,
graphics display, dual joysticks and light pen.  The official job of this
machine was to scan bubble chamber film -- the operators would use the
joysticks and light pen to extract the relevant info from each frame of
film.

When I saw the machine, it was being used to play spacewar.

                                Doug Jones
                                jones@cs.uiowa.edu

thank you for your swift reaction, it's very clear.



that must have been some expensive gaming btw...



--------------A77580F01BF51A58B5F94488--

######

From: deke.spamblock@generous.net
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:00:44 GMT
Organization: GenerousCity is a virtue - find romance at http://generous.net
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On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:29:27 +0100, Erik de Jonge  wrote:

 >At my work is this man who build a joystick for video-image processing
 >in 1969, he built it without ever seeing one before.

 >Could this be the world's first joystick?

Wilbur and Orville wouldn't have thought so....

deke

------------------------
Let love find you!   http://generous.net 
A list for flirting  generousSingles-subscribe@onelist.com
Over The Hill Gang   generousSinglesOTHG-subscribe@onelist.com   
College and younger  generousTeens-subscribe@onelist.com
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   If it's not 'just the way you are', it's not love....

######

Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet
From: Neil Franklin 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: 22 Jan 1999 21:22:08 +0100
Organization: My own Private Self
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jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>
> by Erik de Jonge :
>
> > At my work is this man who build a joystick for video-image processing
> > in 1969, he built it without ever seeing one before.
>
> No, but that was the era in which many people built such things from vague
> descriptions they'd heard.
>
> I encountered joysticks back around 1967 at the University of Michigan,
> where they had a DDP 224 computer (a 24 bit word, made by Computer Control
> Corporation, soon to be bought by Honeywell) with a flying spot scanner,
> graphics display, dual joysticks and light pen.  The official job of this
> machine was to scan bubble chamber film -- the operators would use the
> joysticks and light pen to extract the relevant info from each frame of
> film.
>
> When I saw the machine, it was being used to play spacewar.

The oldest occurance of the joystick know to me is for spacewar in its
original implementation on the MITs PDP-1 in 1961.

From one who was involved:

http://ars-www.uchicago.edu/~eric/lore/spacewar/spacewar.html


--
Neil Franklin, Nerd, Geek, Unix Guru, Hacker, Mystic
neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/
Programming: when you stop hammering around on the computer as if it
  were a piece of dumb matter and instead tell it what to do for you

######

From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: 23 Jan 1999 21:08:42 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
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Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879 (jones@cs.uiowa.edu) writes:
> 
> I encountered joysticks back around 1967 at the University of Michigan,
> where they had a DDP 224 computer (a 24 bit word, made by Computer Control
> Corporation, soon to be bought by Honeywell) with a flying spot scanner,
> graphics display, dual joysticks and light pen.  The official job of this
> machine was to scan bubble chamber film -- the operators would use the
> joysticks and light pen to extract the relevant info from each frame of
> film.
  
  Was this machine once described in Scientific American about that time?

######

From: jvarela@mind.spring.com (John Varela)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: 25 Jan 1999 02:47:20 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
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On Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:29:27, Erik de Jonge  wrote:

> hello,
> 
> pardon me for this interuption,
> 
> At my work is this man who build a joystick for video-image processing
> in 1969, he built it without ever seeing one before.
> 
> Could this be the world's first joystick?

I believe the term originates with the single stick control used in aircraft 
cockpits dating probably from The Great War.

To my personal knowledge the term joystick used for a display console cursor 
control device goes back at least to the very early 1960s.

Before digital computers were used for Air Traffic Control the FAA had an 
all-analog radar system.  In order to use the radar displays in a less than 
fully darkened room they used scan converters, called Radar Bright Display 
Equipment (RBDE), to convert the dim, unrefreshed, radially scanned radar 
picture to a raster -- the raster being brighter because it is refreshed.

The equipment that was in use in the Centers when I got into the business in the
early 60s was the RBDE-5, made by Raytheon.  The RBDE consoles were equipped 
with joysticks to move an analog gate to capture individual radar beacon returns
for decoding.  (If you didn't understand that last sentence, it's too 
complicated to explain here.)

In 1963 we were attempting to specify the man-machine interface for the 
automated digital en route ATC system (the system that used the 9020s -- see the
"Any Tube or Transistor Mainframe Computers" thread).  The candidates for the 
radar console data position entry device were joystick, track ball, and light 
gun.  There were anecdotal stories floating around the FAA that the joysticks on
the RBDE-5 consoles had been a maintenance problem, so on a visit to the Air 
Route Traffic Control Center at Leesburg, VA, I asked one of the maintenance 
techs if there were any truth in the stories.  He didn't say anything, he just 
turned around, plucked a cardboard box from a shelf, and showed me a couple of 
dozen broken-off joysticks.  So much for joysticks.  We (MITRE) advocated light 
guns (because that's what we were used to in SAGE) but the FAA went with track 
balls.
 
--  
    John Varela
    (delete . between mind and spring to e-mail me)

######

Message-ID: <36ABF307.F53C329C@bellsouth.net>
From: Max F Lang 
Reply-To: mflang@bellsouth.net
Organization: Home Computing
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
References: <36A87D37.463D7B8F@cybercomm.nl> 
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John Varela wrote:
>
> To my personal knowledge the term joystick used for a display console cursor
> control device goes back at least to the very early 1960s.
> 

In the book "Digital Computer and Control Engineering", by Robert S
Ledley, published in 1960, has a short description and a diagram on the
use of a joystick (on p748: "One typical application of a joy stick is
as an aid in tracking aircraft,..."). References to this section date
back to 1952.

This book is especially interesting in that it develops the background
leading up to a complete description of a transister based simple
computer using wound core memory. I'm not sure if the system could
actually be built from the book alone, but it makes a nice
"gedankenkomputer."

MFLang

######

From: "Gareth Alun Evans" 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:03:44 -0000
Message-ID: <917266116.13172.3.nnrp-05.9e98250c@news.demon.co.uk>
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John Varela wrote in message ...
>>
>> Could this be the world's first joystick?
>
>I believe the term originates with the single stick control used in
aircraft
>cockpits dating probably from The Great War.


ISTR reading that "Joy Stick" was a pre-WW I term for a penis, and that
the arrival of the aircraft control mechanism as a hard protuberance
between one's legs caused the inevitable crudity.

It's an odd thing about technological idiomatic crudity; "cock-up"
was never crude, but now it's assumed by most to be so! (it
relates to old rifles, where the "cock" (firing hammer shaped
like a cockerel) would not work if left in the pulled up(and
out-of-the-way) position).

Cue discussion about history of technology, two-fingered
gestures and freezing-the-balls-off-a-brass-monkey, neither
of which were crudein their original technological
manifestation.

######

From: jvarela@mind.spring.com (John Varela)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: 26 Jan 1999 02:23:45 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
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On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:03:44, "Gareth Alun Evans"  
wrote:

> ISTR reading that "Joy Stick" was a pre-WW I term for a penis, and that
> the arrival of the aircraft control mechanism as a hard protuberance
> between one's legs caused the inevitable crudity.

Doubtless originating with the French.  If so, then it went full circle.  See my
post in the thread "Le Baton de Joie" in this news group. 

--  
    John Varela
    (delete . between mind and spring to e-mail me)

######

From: Kin Hoong CHUNG 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: 26 Jan 1999 06:23:17 GMT
Organization: University of New South Wales
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Gareth Alun Evans  wrote:

: Cue discussion about history of technology, two-fingered
: gestures and freezing-the-balls-off-a-brass-monkey, neither
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's asking for trouble, for there are many arguments as to what a
brass monkey is :-):-):-)

Cheers,

Kin Hoong

######

From: "Gareth Alun Evans" 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:26:17 -0000
Message-ID: <917346980.29758.6.nnrp-01.9e98250c@news.demon.co.uk>
References: <36A87D37.463D7B8F@cybercomm.nl>  <917266116.13172.3.nnrp-05.9e98250c@news.demon.co.uk> <78jn0l$rqo$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au>
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Kin Hoong CHUNG wrote in message <78jn0l$rqo$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au>...
>: Cue discussion about history of technology, two-fingered
>: gestures and freezing-the-balls-off-a-brass-monkey, neither
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>That's asking for trouble, for there are many arguments as to what a
>brass monkey is :-):-):-)


A brass ring, set into the wooden floor of a warship, and then
slightly protruding so as to form a stable base upon which to
store a stack of cannon-balls ready for use. When cold, contracts,
cannon-balls caused to rise above the point of stability, cannon
balls roll away.

######

From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 99 12:34:25 GMT
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.
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In article <917346980.29758.6.nnrp-01.9e98250c@news.demon.co.uk>,
   "Gareth Alun Evans"  wrote:
>Kin Hoong CHUNG wrote in message <78jn0l$rqo$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au>...
>>: Cue discussion about history of technology, two-fingered
>>: gestures and freezing-the-balls-off-a-brass-monkey, neither
>>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>That's asking for trouble, for there are many arguments as to what a
>>brass monkey is :-):-):-)
>
>
>A brass ring, set into the wooden floor of a warship, and then
>slightly protruding so as to form a stable base upon which to
>store a stack of cannon-balls ready for use. When cold, contracts,
>cannon-balls caused to rise above the point of stability, cannon
>balls roll away.
>
Finally, another of my life's mysteries solved.  Now, how
about that brass bra coldness factor?

/BAH


Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.

######

From: "Gareth Alun Evans" 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:00:08 -0000
Message-ID: <917359886.22067.0.nnrp-05.9e98250c@news.demon.co.uk>
References: <36A87D37.463D7B8F@cybercomm.nl>  <917266116.13172.3.nnrp-05.9e98250c@news.demon.co.uk> <78jn0l$rqo$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <917346980.29758.6.nnrp-01.9e98250c@news.demon.co.uk> <78kehk$9j5$1@strato.ultra.net>
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jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message <78kehk$9j5$1@strato.ultra.net>...
>Finally, another of my life's mysteries solved.  Now, how
>about that brass bra coldness factor?


Sorry, never heard of that one.

######

From: hawk@eyry.econ.iastate.edu (Richard E. Hawkins Esq.)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: 26 Jan 1999 13:42:00 -0600
Organization: House of Hawkins
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In article <78kehk$9j5$1@strato.ultra.net>,   wrote:

>Finally, another of my life's mysteries solved.  Now, how
>about that brass bra coldness factor?

Didn't those go out with the Valkyrie?  But it does explain those
shivering sounds in "Ride of the Valkyrie" . . .

-- 
These opinions will not be those of ISU until it pays my retainer.

######

From: jvarela@mind.spring.com (John Varela)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: 27 Jan 1999 02:57:05 GMT
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On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:26:17, "Gareth Alun Evans"  
wrote:

> Kin Hoong CHUNG wrote in message <78jn0l$rqo$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au>...

> >That's asking for trouble, for there are many arguments as to what a
> >brass monkey is :-):-):-)
> 
> A brass ring, set into the wooden floor of a warship, and then
> slightly protruding so as to form a stable base upon which to
> store a stack of cannon-balls ready for use. When cold, contracts,
> cannon-balls caused to rise above the point of stability, cannon
> balls roll away.

I've been aboard quite a few wooden warships, both replicas and originals, and 
I've never seen a ring such as you describe inset into the deck.  Also, cannon 
balls don't stack in cones, they stack in pyramids.

http://www.urbanlegends.com/language/etymology/brass_monkey_more.html

--  
    John Varela
    (delete . between mind and spring to e-mail me)

######

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
References: <36A87D37.463D7B8F@cybercomm.nl>  <917266116.13172.3.nnrp-05.9e98250c@news.demon.co 
Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering
From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
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In article ,
John Varela  wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:03:44, "Gareth Alun Evans"  
>wrote:
>> ISTR reading that "Joy Stick" was a pre-WW I term for a penis, and that
>> the arrival of the aircraft control mechanism as a hard protuberance
>> between one's legs caused the inevitable crudity.
>Doubtless originating with the French.  If so, then it went full circle.  See my
>post in the thread "Le Baton de Joie" in this news group. 

Hm, _I_STR that "joystick" started out as an aircraft control called a
"Joyce stick", presumably after its inventor.  Not that my ancient
memories on the topic are necessarily reliable.

-- 
Sergej Roytman

######

From: "Gareth Alun Evans" 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:16:30 -0000
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John Varela wrote in message ...
>> Kin Hoong CHUNG wrote in message <78jn0l$rqo$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au>...
>
>> >That's asking for trouble, for there are many arguments as to what a
>> >brass monkey is :-):-):-)
>>
>> A brass ring, set into the wooden floor of a warship, and then
>> slightly protruding so as to form a stable base upon which to
>> store a stack of cannon-balls ready for use. When cold, contracts,
>> cannon-balls caused to rise above the point of stability, cannon
>> balls roll away.
>
>I've been aboard quite a few wooden warships, both replicas and originals,
and
>I've never seen a ring such as you describe inset into the deck.  Also,
cannon
>balls don't stack in cones, they stack in pyramids.


Well, perhaps it was an urban legend!

######

From: "Samael" 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:29:59 -0000
Message-ID: <36af14d8.0@192.168.0.20>
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Gareth Alun Evans wrote in message
<917442381.29351.0.nnrp-12.9e98250c@news.demon.co.uk>...
>John Varela wrote in message ...
>>> Kin Hoong CHUNG wrote in message <78jn0l$rqo$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au>...
>>
>>> >That's asking for trouble, for there are many arguments as to what a
>>> >brass monkey is :-):-):-)
>>>
>>> A brass ring, set into the wooden floor of a warship, and then
>>> slightly protruding so as to form a stable base upon which to
>>> store a stack of cannon-balls ready for use. When cold, contracts,
>>> cannon-balls caused to rise above the point of stability, cannon
>>> balls roll away.
>>
>>I've been aboard quite a few wooden warships, both replicas and originals,
>and
>>I've never seen a ring such as you describe inset into the deck.  Also,
>cannon
>>balls don't stack in cones, they stack in pyramids.
>
>
>Well, perhaps it was an urban legend!


When I had the same thing explained to me, the object they were stored in
looked rather like a coal scuttle (wooden trapezoid sort of thing)- the
brass version being used for when inspections were taking place by high
ranking members of the admiralty.  Wooden/Iron monkeys were apparently used
the rest of the time as they were more reliable and less breakable.

Samael

######

From: Kin Hoong CHUNG 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: history of joysticks
Date: 29 Jan 1999 03:07:26 GMT
Organization: University of New South Wales
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Gareth Alun Evans  wrote:
: Kin Hoong CHUNG wrote in message <78jn0l$rqo$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au>...
:>: Cue discussion about history of technology, two-fingered
:>: gestures and freezing-the-balls-off-a-brass-monkey, neither
:>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:>That's asking for trouble, for there are many arguments as to what a
:>brass monkey is :-):-):-)

: A brass ring, set into the wooden floor of a warship, and then
: slightly protruding so as to form a stable base upon which to
: store a stack of cannon-balls ready for use. When cold, contracts,
: cannon-balls caused to rise above the point of stability, cannon
: balls roll away.

That is usually where the discussion starts (or at least it did in
_The_Australian_ newspaper, or perhaps it was the _Sydney_Morning_Herald_);
then somebody mentions that that is not a brass monkey, but that it
is the harness on a donkey which had little brass balls on it (for ropes)
---which broke off in cold enough weather (for the reason that brass changes
structure at that sort of temperature and becomes brittle), then somebody
notes that cannon-balls were stored in racks as the ships listed a little
too much to leave them in a pyramid, then ... (claim and counter-claim)
*sigh*

The real problem is that there does not appear to be a sufficiently old
written source describing a "brass monkey".

Cheers,

Kin Hoong