From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: YKYBHTLW Date: 19 Jan 1999 19:38:11 GMT Message-ID: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-173.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: roch.zetnet.co.uk 916774691 9567 194.247.40.220 (19 Jan 1999 19:38:11 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jan 1999 19:38:11 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Lines: 8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail ..you hear someone say "It's risk" on the radio and for a moment, you think "RISC? Oh, maybe I should start listening to this..." before realising they're just going on about venture capital. -- Communa (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) -- you know soft spoken changes nothing Net-Tamer V 1.08X - Test Drive ###### From: cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 20 Jan 1999 17:43:44 GMT Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: <7854kg$dp5$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 916855248 nnrp-01:23618 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.0 Lines: 9 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!masternews.telia.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail In article <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk>, lisard@zetnet.co.uk writes: > ..you hear someone say "It's risk" on the radio and for a moment, you > think "RISC? Oh, maybe I should start listening to this..." before > realising they're just going on about venture capital. Been there, done that... I must be getting old. Chris. ###### From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 23 Jan 1999 20:45:43 GMT Lines: 14 Message-ID: <78dcdn$roh$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> References: <7854kg$dp5$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-174.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: roch.zetnet.co.uk 917124343 28433 194.247.40.221 (23 Jan 1999 20:45:43 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jan 1999 20:45:43 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet-feed1!btnet!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1999-01-20 cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk(ChrisHedley) said: :lisard@zetnet.co.uk writes: :> ..you hear someone say "It's risk" on the radio and for a moment, :>you think "RISC? Oh, maybe I should start listening to this..." :>before realising they're just going on about venture capital. :Been there, done that... I must be getting old. Maybe it was the same radio programme? ;> -- Communa (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) -- you know soft spoken changes nothing ###### From: jnickelsen@acm.org (Juergen Nickelsen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:00:22 +0100 Organization: [Posted via] Interactive Networx Lines: 9 Message-ID: <1dlyfoh.abu9lz1an7ki6N@n31-112.berlin.snafu.de> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: n31-112.berlin.snafu.de User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.ecrc.net!195.252.142.5.MISMATCH!newsfeed.tli.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!jnickelsen wrote: > "RISC? Oh, maybe I should start listening to this..." before realising > they're just going on about venture capital. No RISC, no fun. -- Juergen Nickelsen ###### From: jvarela@mind.spring.com (John Varela) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 25 Jan 1999 02:53:31 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> Reply-To: jvarela@mind.spring.com NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.25.9b Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: ProNews/2 Version 1.00 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:38:11, lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > ...you hear someone say "It's risk" on the radio and for a moment, you > think "RISC? Oh, maybe I should start listening to this..." before > realising they're just going on about venture capital. You see a newspaper headline about the Salt Lake Olympic Committee abbreviated SLOC and wonder why the sports pages are talking about Source Lines of Code. -- John Varela (delete . between mind and spring to e-mail me) ###### From: cs1cl@stoat.shef.ac.uk (C Lamb) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 25 Jan 1999 13:22:56 GMT Organization: Sheffield University, UK Lines: 20 Message-ID: <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> Reply-To: cs1cl@stoat.shef.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: stoat.shef.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server5.netnews.ja.net!news.shef.ac.uk!stoat!cs1cl John Varela (jvarela@mind.spring.com) wrote: : On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:38:11, lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: : > ...you hear someone say "It's risk" on the radio and for a moment, you : > think "RISC? Oh, maybe I should start listening to this..." before : > realising they're just going on about venture capital. : You see a newspaper headline about the Salt Lake Olympic Committee abbreviated : SLOC and wonder why the sports pages are talking about Source Lines of Code. You're stood at the bus stop and 3 number 52's arrive and you wonder why the bus stop can't issue a ICMP_SOURCEQUENCH... (I actually thought that after a long night with Stevens) C : -- : John Varela : (delete . between mind and spring to e-mail me) ###### From: cjt&trefoil Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:15:37 -0600 Organization: Prodigy Services, Inc Lines: 13 Message-ID: <36AD4F79.614D@prodigy.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <1dlyfoh.abu9lz1an7ki6N@n31-112.berlin.snafu.de> Reply-To: cheljuba@prodigy.net NNTP-Posting-Host: dllsb102-20.splitrock.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com 917327735 2709921 209.156.40.20 (26 Jan 1999 05:15:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jan 1999 05:15:35 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!uninett.no!news-feed1.eu.concert.net!skynet.be!newscon05!prodigy.com!not-for-mail Juergen Nickelsen wrote: > > wrote: > > > "RISC? Oh, maybe I should start listening to this..." before realising > > they're just going on about venture capital. > > No RISC, no fun. > > -- > Juergen Nickelsen Isn't that "No risk, no reward?" ###### From: tph@acm.org (Tom "Tom" Harrington) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 25 Jan 1999 23:19:02 GMT Organization: Mechanist Industries Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell.rmi.net X-Trace: news1.rmi.net 917306342 23240 166.93.8.17 (25 Jan 1999 23:19:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@rmi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jan 1999 23:19:02 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!166.93.8.12!natasha.rmii.com!news1.rmi.net!tph In article <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk>, C Lamb wrote: >John Varela (jvarela@mind.spring.com) wrote: >: On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:38:11, lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > >: > ...you hear someone say "It's risk" on the radio and for a moment, you >: > think "RISC? Oh, maybe I should start listening to this..." before >: > realising they're just going on about venture capital. > >: You see a newspaper headline about the Salt Lake Olympic Committee abbreviated >: SLOC and wonder why the sports pages are talking about Source Lines of Code. > >You're stood at the bus stop and 3 number 52's arrive and you wonder why >the bus stop can't issue a ICMP_SOURCEQUENCH... (I actually thought that >after a long night with Stevens) ...you hear the following local radio ad, and experience a momentary puzzled "what's-he-doing-on-my-radio" feeling: "Hi. I'm Dennis Ritchie. President of Pike's Peak National Bank. " -- Tom "Tom" Harrington ----- tph@rmi.net ----- http://rainbow.rmi.net/~tph "Madness. Madness? I call it gladness!" ###### From: Dave Daniels Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:26:04 GMT Organization: ArgoNet, but does not reflect its views Lines: 27 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> Reply-To: Dave Daniels NNTP-Posting-Host: userl612.uk.uudial.com X-Newsreader: NewsAgent 0.84 for RISC OS Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!warm.news.pipex.net!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!argonet.co.uk!argbq79 In article <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk>, cs1cl@stoat.shef.ac.uk (C Lamb) wrote: > You're stood at the bus stop and 3 number 52's arrive and you wonder why > the bus stop can't issue a ICMP_SOURCEQUENCH... (I actually thought that > after a long night with Stevens) > Your digital alarm clock shows that the time is 2 33 and you think that that is its speed in Mhz. You look at car registration numbers and all you see is assembler mnemonics. Dave -- ANTISPAM: Please note that the email address above is false. My correct address is: dave_danielsargonetcouk Please replace the and s with @ and . respectively when replying - Thanks! ###### From: hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:19:18 -0800 Organization: ErsteSoft Lines: 18 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-asft03--074.sirius.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news2.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.sirius.com!newsfiler.sirius.com!hnsngr In article , Dave Daniels wrote: > You look at car registration numbers and all you see is assembler > mnemonics. Actually, I do that less now that I've been hacking for a long time than I did back when I was first starting. When you're learning a new skill, in this case "recognizing" opcode mnemonics, you tend to have it on your mind all the time. I even have dreams about new things I'm doing. What made it worse was that at the time my state (California) had license plates that were three letters and three digits, and three-letter groups are easy to read as opcodes. Anyway, the subject line should be YKNHJBTHW... -Ron Hunsinger ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:40:56 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 25 Message-ID: <36b00d94.6096962@news.vip.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.59 X-Trace: 917559009 A01OARAUVD43BCCD1C usenet54.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ69!not-for-mail Dave Daniels wrote: >In article <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk>, cs1cl@stoat.shef.ac.uk (C >Lamb) wrote: >> You're stood at the bus stop and 3 number 52's arrive and you wonder why >> the bus stop can't issue a ICMP_SOURCEQUENCH... (I actually thought that >> after a long night with Stevens) >> > >Your digital alarm clock shows that the time is 2 33 and you think >that that is its speed in Mhz. > >You look at car registration numbers and all you see is assembler >mnemonics. Or you think "Illegal opcode". Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:08:36 +0000 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <36B17A94.2CA836A9@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 917601755 nnrp-09:20966 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Ron Hunsinger wrote: > What made it worse was that at the time my state (California) had license > plates that were three letters and three digits, and three-letter groups > are easy to read as opcodes. Rather like UK license plates, mine for example is P 154 GDP. I know I'm getting old because about half the registrations I see have been valid opcodes on machines I've used at one time or another. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:30:09 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 25 Message-ID: <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye05.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 917619813 16762 206.248.37.133 (29 Jan 1999 14:23:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jan 1999 14:23:33 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!howland.erols.net!torn!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail Of course. Dreaming is the brain's way of taking its "real world data" offline so it can test new software under emulation. Even nature knows better than to test live ... Ron Hunsinger wrote in message ... >In article , Dave Daniels > wrote: > >> You look at car registration numbers and all you see is assembler >> mnemonics. > >Actually, I do that less now that I've been hacking for a long time than I >did back when I was first starting. When you're learning a new skill, in >this case "recognizing" opcode mnemonics, you tend to have it on your mind >all the time. I even have dreams about new things I'm doing. > >What made it worse was that at the time my state (California) had license >plates that were three letters and three digits, and three-letter groups >are easy to read as opcodes. > >Anyway, the subject line should be YKNHJBTHW... > >-Ron Hunsinger ###### From: cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 29 Jan 1999 21:10:38 GMT Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <36B17A94.2CA836A9@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 917647214 nnrp-12:23620 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.0 Lines: 11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail In article <36B17A94.2CA836A9@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>, Robert Billing writes: > Rather like UK license plates, mine for example is P 154 GDP. I know > I'm getting old because about half the registrations I see have been > valid opcodes on machines I've used at one time or another. My mam used to work in a vehicle licencing centre many years ago, and can to this day tell which town a car was first registered in by its number plate. Chris. ###### From: Dave Daniels Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:15:45 GMT Organization: ArgoNet, but does not reflect its views Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> Reply-To: Dave Daniels NNTP-Posting-Host: usern196.uk.uudial.com X-Newsreader: NewsAgent 0.84 for RISC OS Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!argonet.co.uk!argbq79 In article <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net>, "Donald Tees" wrote: > "real world data" offline so it can test new software under > emulation. Even nature knows better than to test live ... > So, if we assume that premise is correct, do dreams represent the first runs of things once it has got them to compile? I'd hate to think that that is the stuff that is just about to go into production. Dave -- ANTISPAM: Please note that the email address above is false. My correct address is: dave_danielsargonetcouk Please replace the and s with @ and . respectively when replying - Thanks! ###### From: dg@ (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:57:53 GMT Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Message-ID: <917654273.17129.0.nnrp-02.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <36B17A94.2CA836A9@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 917654273 nnrp-02:17129 NO-IDENT taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!taos.demon.co.uk!!dg In article <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk>, Chris Hedley wrote: >My mam used to work in a vehicle licencing centre many years ago, and >can to this day tell which town a car was first registered in by its >number plate. Well, yes. The last two letters of the three-letter group tell you wherit was registered. For example, ES is Perth, where I was born (my parents had several ES cars). Knowing them all is an impressive feat, though. -- +- David Given ---------------McQ-+ "Hydrogen fusion, the sun makes shine | Work: dg@tao.co.uk | Vascular pressure makes the ivy twine. | Play: dgiven@iname.com | Because of Rayleigh, the sky's so blue. +- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ Hormonal fixation is why I love you." ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:26:36 -0500 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 17 Message-ID: <36B3088C.1F7C52E3@stoneweb.com> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: zephyr.ultranet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 30 Jan 1999 13:26:34 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.idt.net!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail Dave Daniels wrote: > > You look at car registration numbers and all you see is assembler > mnemonics. This caused quite the bit of hilarity in Massachusetts in the early '80s when we went to a "3 digit-3 letter" tag scheme. The DEC-10 heads were constantly trying to figure out what the stopcodes were. -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| ###### From: lars@cableinet.co.uk (Lars Duening) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:54:19 +0100 Organization: Federation of Independent Wizards Lines: 23 Message-ID: <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk X-Trace: news1.cableinet.co.uk 917790198 28377 194.117.152.42 (31 Jan 1999 13:43:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cableinet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Jan 1999 13:43:18 GMT User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news5.cableinet.net!cableinet-uk!news1.cableinet.co.uk!lars wrote: > In article , > Dave Daniels wrote: > >In article <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net>, "Donald Tees" > > >wrote: > >> "real world data" offline so it can test new software under > >> emulation. Even nature knows better than to test live ... > >> > > > >So, if we assume that premise is correct, do dreams represent the > >first runs of things once it has got them to compile? I'd hate to > >think that that is the stuff that is just about to go into > >production. > > Nah. Dreaming is compiling the same buggy program over and over > and over just to make sure there's a bug. Actually, dreams are test runs of your basic firmware (or should I say 'mushware'?). -- Lars Duening; lars@cableinet.co.uk ###### Message-ID: <36B47FE3.4967@gazonk.del> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:08:03 -0500 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 31 Jan 1999 11:08:17 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.idt.net!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 Lars Duening wrote: > > Actually, dreams are test runs of your basic firmware (or should I say > 'mushware'?). The customary term is, "wetware." ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sun, 31 Jan 99 12:24:19 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 23 Message-ID: <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: d3.dial-11.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 31 Jan 1999 12:55:36 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!209.244.253.199!newsfeed.xcom.net!news.ultranet.com!d3 In article , Dave Daniels wrote: >In article <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net>, "Donald Tees" >wrote: >> "real world data" offline so it can test new software under >> emulation. Even nature knows better than to test live ... >> > >So, if we assume that premise is correct, do dreams represent the >first runs of things once it has got them to compile? I'd hate to >think that that is the stuff that is just about to go into >production. Nah. Dreaming is compiling the same buggy program over and over and over just to make sure there's a bug. The premise is that (at least) one time, the compilation will be successful (even though no bugs were analyzed nor fixed). When that miracle happens, the development is done. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:59:57 -0800 Organization: ErsteSoft Lines: 46 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-asft04--119.sirius.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news2.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.sirius.com!newsfiler.sirius.com!hnsngr In article , Dave Daniels wrote: > In article <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net>, "Donald Tees" > wrote: > > "real world data" offline so it can test new software under > > emulation. Even nature knows better than to test live ... > > > > So, if we assume that premise is correct, do dreams represent the > first runs of things once it has got them to compile? I'd hate to > think that that is the stuff that is just about to go into > production. I've always assumed that dreams were a side effect of database reorganization. Primarily, you've got a bunch of new data in intermediate storage (time-scale on the order of a day, midway between short-term, on the scale of seconds to minutes, and long-term, which will last a lifetime). All that data has to be cataloged, indexed, and filed away in long-term storage. As part of that, it has to be examined and compared to similar data already in long-term storage. Comparing new data to old includes extrapolating from their conjunction, as a way to measure how closely related they really are. When they're related, but just barely, the extrapolation can produce pretty weird results, hence the strangeness of dreams. Of course, then there are those times when the process gets stuck in a loop. I remember the night after I learned that rattlesnakes are not immune to their own venom. They can eat prey they've poisoned OK, but accidently biting themselves or each other can be fatal. That night, I wandered up and down the sidewalks of a deserted city. Deserted except for me and rattlesnake after rattlesnake in the gutters, about one every ten feet. I'd very carefully grab one behind the head, walk a ways down the sidewalk and drop him on his neighbor, so they'd bite each other. Then pick up the one after that, drop him on the next. Over and over. All night long. I woke up exhausted. Never have been able to figure out why that sort of dream happens, except that I notice it's usually when I'm thirsty. If I go back to sleep, I'm always right back in the same loop, but if I drink some water before going back to sleep I'll get a new dream. -Ron Hunsinger ###### From: hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:05:52 -0800 Organization: ErsteSoft Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-asft04--119.sirius.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!logbridge.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news2.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.sirius.com!newsfiler.sirius.com!hnsngr In article <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk>, lars@cableinet.co.uk (Lars Duening) wrote: > Actually, dreams are test runs of your basic firmware (or should I say > 'mushware'?). I always thought of *daydreams* as the test runs. You get to play through a what-if scenario, and try out various possible solutions to see which ones might have unintended consequences. Viewed that way, I consider daydreaming a survival skill. The more you do of it, the more likely you'll already know what to do in an emergency, because you'll have already rehearsed it. -Ron Hunsinger ###### From: lars@cableinet.co.uk (Lars Duening) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:57:43 +0100 Organization: Federation of Independent Wizards Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1dmik09.aiguz8oxn8jkN@usr310-edi.cableinet.co.uk> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> <36B47FE3.4967@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr310-edi.cableinet.co.uk X-Trace: news1.cableinet.co.uk 917815601 5225 194.117.129.91 (31 Jan 1999 20:46:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cableinet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Jan 1999 20:46:41 GMT User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news5.cableinet.net!cableinet-uk!news1.cableinet.co.uk!lars Foobar T. Clown wrote: > Lars Duening wrote: > > > > Actually, dreams are test runs of your basic firmware (or should I say > > 'mushware'?). > > The customary term is, "wetware." I know that, but I always found that term inconsistent. I mean, we call hardware 'hardware' to point out its hardness, and not 'dryware' though it certainly is that, too. -- Lars Duening; lars@cableinet.co.uk ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> <36B47FE3.4967@gazonk.del> <1dmik09.aiguz8oxn8jkN@usr310-edi.cableinet.co.uk> Organization: University of Michigan, College of Engineering From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) Lines: 17 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 21:32:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.212.106.44 X-Trace: srvr1.engin.umich.edu 917818343 141.212.106.44 (Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:32:23 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:32:23 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!ftit In article <1dmik09.aiguz8oxn8jkN@usr310-edi.cableinet.co.uk>, Lars Duening wrote: >Foobar T. Clown wrote: >> Lars Duening wrote: >> > Actually, dreams are test runs of your basic firmware (or should I say >> > 'mushware'?). >> The customary term is, "wetware." > >I know that, but I always found that term inconsistent. I mean, we call >hardware 'hardware' to point out its hardness, and not 'dryware' though >it certainly is that, too. ...unless you're in the computer-stuff-in-the-dishwasher thread on this newsgroup. -- Sergej Roytman ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:10:30 +0000 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <36B56176.D8867781@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 917858104 disrupt:19051 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!nntp.abs.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Ron Hunsinger wrote: > I've always assumed that dreams were a side effect of database > reorganization. Primarily, you've got a bunch of new data in intermediate I'd tend to agree with you, but make one observation. After a long day hacking HTML I had a nightmare with hyperlinks to other nightmares. After a long day working on broadcasting software I had a nightmare which broke for commercials half way through. However I have *never* had a nightmare that collapsed into a blue screen. My brain must be running Linux... -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:22:35 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 30 Message-ID: <791sn2$opq$1@news.igs.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye02.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 917796386 25402 206.248.37.130 (31 Jan 1999 15:26:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Jan 1999 15:26:26 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!130.185.14.36!torn!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail Don't know that we use a compiler, but the rest is about right ... Dave Daniels wrote in message ... >In article <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net>, "Donald Tees" >wrote: >> "real world data" offline so it can test new software under >> emulation. Even nature knows better than to test live ... >> > >So, if we assume that premise is correct, do dreams represent the >first runs of things once it has got them to compile? I'd hate to >think that that is the stuff that is just about to go into >production. > >Dave > >-- >ANTISPAM: Please note that the email address above is false. My >correct address is: > > dave_danielsargonetcouk > >Please replace the and s with @ and . respectively when >replying - Thanks! > > > ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Mon, 01 Feb 99 13:38:09 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 42 Message-ID: <794civ$hvp$9@ligarius.ultra.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <36B56176.D8867781@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: d9.dial-12.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 1 Feb 1999 14:09:35 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.cwix.com!18.24.4.11!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news.ultranet.com!d9 In article <36B56176.D8867781@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>, Robert Billing wrote: >Ron Hunsinger wrote: > >> I've always assumed that dreams were a side effect of database >> reorganization. Primarily, you've got a bunch of new data >> in intermediate > > I'd tend to agree with you, but make one observation. After a long day >hacking HTML I had a nightmare with hyperlinks to other nightmares. >After a long day working on broadcasting software I had a nightmare >which broke for commercials half way through. Neat! >However I have *never* had a nightmare that collapsed into a blue screen. I'd think I'd start selling encyclopedias if that ever happened. > > My brain must be running Linux... > I was writing the functional spec for my USAGE project. I hate writing. They couldn't have paid me a million dollars a day to write for a living. So....I had been spending lots of my thinking time working the writing. My audience was not only programmers, but also project managers and salesmen which made communcication very difficult. One morning I woke up (I was working 3 AM to noon), went into work, and started looking for the text that I had written "yesterday". It wasn't there. I paniced (it had been about six printer pages worth of text) and started looking all around for that damn file. After some contemplation, I realized that I had dreamed I had written the whole thing. That dream was so real, I remembered the spelling corrections, the system crashes, the printing for spell checking (we did that by hand in those days). What a blow. I had to do the same damn writing all over again. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:52:41 -0800 Organization: ErsteSoft Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <36B56176.D8867781@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <794civ$hvp$9@ligarius.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-asok07--125.sirius.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news2.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.sirius.com!newsfiler.sirius.com!hnsngr In article <794civ$hvp$9@ligarius.ultra.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > One morning I woke up (I was working 3 AM to noon), went into > work, and started looking for the text that I had written > "yesterday". It wasn't there. I paniced (it had been about > six printer pages worth of text) and started looking all around > for that damn file. After some contemplation, I realized that I > had dreamed I had written the whole thing. That dream was so > real, I remembered the spelling corrections, the system crashes, > the printing for spell checking (we did that by hand in those days). > What a blow. I had to do the same damn writing all over again. It could be worse. I've done complete testing/debugging sessions in my sleep. Fortunately, when I wake up, I usually realize that sleep-testing doesn't count, and the tests have to be run over again. At least I hope I do. Sometimes the sessions are so realistic it takes me a while to convince myself they didn't really happen. -Ron Hunsinger ###### From: jdassen@wi.LeidenUniv.nl (J.H.M. Dassen (Ray)) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 1 Feb 1999 15:39:29 GMT Organization: Dept. of Math. & Comp. Sc., Leiden University, Leiden, the Netherlands Lines: 15 Message-ID: <794hrh$hgr$1@noc.wi.leidenuniv.nl> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ultra5.wi.leidenuniv.nl X-Trace: noc.wi.leidenuniv.nl 917883569 17947 132.229.128.75 (1 Feb 1999 15:39:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wi.leidenuniv.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Feb 1999 15:39:29 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!surfnet.nl!news.leidenuniv.nl!news.wi.leidenuniv.nl!jdassen Tom "Tom" Harrington wrote: >...you hear the following local radio ad, and experience a momentary puzzled >"what's-he-doing-on-my-radio" feeling: > >"Hi. I'm Dennis Ritchie. President of Pike's Peak National Bank. " When you read this, and think that should have been "what-are-they-doing-on-my-radio". Ray -- UNFAIR Term applied to advantages enjoyed by other people which we tried to cheat them out of and didn't manage. See also DISHONESTY, SNEAKY, UNDERHAND and JUST LUCKY I GUESS. - The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:41:05 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 42 Message-ID: <79538s$nbn$1@news.igs.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <36B56176.D8867781@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye05.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 917901404 23927 206.248.37.133 (1 Feb 1999 20:36:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Feb 1999 20:36:44 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!cyclone.bc.net!torn!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail Well, that is the standard theory, but I do not agree. The body is a fairly important piece of hardware, and it does not make sense to shut it down for a data base re-org. Shutdowns make it entirely too vulnerable. Unless that vulnerability serves a much better purpose than DB re-org, at least intelligent organism should have evolved that could do the re-org in real-time. DB re-orgs are fairly simple, after all. On the other hand, testing of new software is *dangerous*. Doing it live, in real-time could kill that body off, real quick, so it makes much more sense that "test" time is the main purpose of sleep. Put the body in a safe state, then run emulations. If they fail, scrap it. If they work, try them real-time after waking up. There are dozens of studies of learning that show major reflexive change *only* takes place after a nights sleep ... the classic one that comes to mind is the "inverting glasses" type of experiment. Robert Billing wrote in message <36B56176.D8867781@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>... >Ron Hunsinger wrote: > >> I've always assumed that dreams were a side effect of database >> reorganization. Primarily, you've got a bunch of new data in intermediate > > I'd tend to agree with you, but make one observation. After a long day >hacking HTML I had a nightmare with hyperlinks to other nightmares. >After a long day working on broadcasting software I had a nightmare >which broke for commercials half way through. However I have *never* had >a nightmare that collapsed into a blue screen. > > My brain must be running Linux... > >-- >I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal >lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ >"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock >phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### From: skb@xmission.removethis.com (Scott Brown) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 05:02:22 GMT Organization: (none) Lines: 18 Message-ID: <36b68337.108906256@news.xmission.com> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <36B56176.D8867781@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <794civ$hvp$9@ligarius.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc150a.modem.xmission.com X-Trace: news.xmission.com 917931485 24353 204.228.136.150 (2 Feb 1999 04:58:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xmission.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Feb 1999 04:58:05 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!128.32.206.55!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!xmission!nnrp.xmission!not-for-mail On Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:52:41 -0800, hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) wrote: >It could be worse. I've done complete testing/debugging sessions in my >sleep. Fortunately, when I wake up, I usually realize that sleep-testing >doesn't count, and the tests have to be run over again. At least I hope I >do. Sometimes the sessions are so realistic it takes me a while to convince >myself they didn't really happen. My subconscious is a valuable programming tool. Once in a while when I'm developing software, I'll dream about a bug that I didn't test for, and hadn't even thought of testing for. Then when I run the test in real life, more often than not I find the bug I dreamt about. I've also, rarely, dreamt solutions or clues to problems I'd wrestled with and failed to solve earlier that day. It's pretty weird. ###### From: phil@ricochet.net (phil) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:24:27 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 26 Message-ID: <36b6a327.5955473@news.ricochet.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <36B56176.D8867781@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.179.130.92 X-Trace: 917939845 F7W8ZAFJM825CCCB3C usenet76.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!not-for-mail On Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:10:30 +0000, Robert Billing wrote: >Ron Hunsinger wrote: > >> I've always assumed that dreams were a side effect of database >> reorganization. Primarily, you've got a bunch of new data in intermediate > > I'd tend to agree with you, but make one observation. After a long day >hacking HTML I had a nightmare with hyperlinks to other nightmares. >After a long day working on broadcasting software I had a nightmare >which broke for commercials half way through. However I have *never* had >a nightmare that collapsed into a blue screen. > > My brain must be running Linux... > This is interesting, because i used to get a lot of dreams that seemed to end with falling and i'd wake up either just before i hit the ground or just after, it was never clear. Within the last couple of years i've been having a number of dreams that ended in blue screens, after some of which i remember waking up and thinking that it must be a network problem or Wednesday. No idea why. phil. ###### From: deke.spamblock@generous.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:49:47 GMT Organization: GenerousCity is a virtue - find romance at http://generous.net Lines: 35 Message-ID: <36b6bb27.12306014@news.bright.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78hr7g$b57$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <36B56176.D8867781@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <794civ$hvp$9@ligarius.ultra.net> <36b68337.108906256@news.xmission.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: paul-cas2-cs-20.dial.bright.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!chicago-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.chicago.winstar.net!news.winstar.net!news.chicago.winstar.net!NewsNG.Chicago.Qual.Net!205.212.123.11!news.bright.net!not-for-mail On Tue, 02 Feb 1999 05:02:22 GMT, skb@xmission.removethis.com (Scott Brown) wrote: >My subconscious is a valuable programming tool. Once in a while when >I'm developing software, I'll dream about a bug that I didn't test >for, and hadn't even thought of testing for. Then when I run the test >in real life, more often than not I find the bug I dreamt about. I've >also, rarely, dreamt solutions or clues to problems I'd wrestled with >and failed to solve earlier that day. Works that way for me, too. During the few times that I've worked for someone else, rather than for myself, I have tried to explain that sleeping during the normal 8x5 *is* diligently attending to my duties, but never have I been successful. On the other hand, when I've worked for myself, I've been considerably more productive by using this and other frowned-on techniques. Have you noticed that when you can't figure out which is the best architecture for your software, that playing freecell or backgammon on the puter focuses your thoughts? Of course, if I was paying someone *else* to code the stuff that I designed, I'd expect them to sit there and type furiously.... deke ------------------------ Let love find you! http://generous.net A list for flirting generousSingles-subscribe@onelist.com Over The Hill Gang generousSinglesOTHG-subscribe@onelist.com College and younger generousTeens-subscribe@onelist.com Lots of Personal Ads generousProfiles-subscribe@onelist.com If it's not 'just the way you are', it's not love.... ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Tue, 02 Feb 99 11:24:19 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: <796p4b$1vt$4@antiochus.ultra.net> References: <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <36B56176.D8867781@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <794civ$hvp$9@ligarius.ultra.net> <36b68337.108906256@news.xmission.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d15.dial-22.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 2 Feb 1999 11:55:55 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news.ultranet.com!d15 In article <36b68337.108906256@news.xmission.com>, skb@xmission.removethis.com (Scott Brown) wrote: >On Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:52:41 -0800, hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) >wrote: > >>It could be worse. I've done complete testing/debugging sessions in my >>sleep. Fortunately, when I wake up, I usually realize that sleep-testing >>doesn't count, and the tests have to be run over again. At least I hope I >>do. Sometimes the sessions are so realistic it takes me a while to convince >>myself they didn't really happen. > >My subconscious is a valuable programming tool. Once in a while when >I'm developing software, I'll dream about a bug that I didn't test >for, and hadn't even thought of testing for. Then when I run the test >in real life, more often than not I find the bug I dreamt about. I've >also, rarely, dreamt solutions or clues to problems I'd wrestled with >and failed to solve earlier that day. > >It's pretty weird. > I don't think it's weird. It's how I always did my most productive thinking. The trick is to remember the dreams long enough to "store it" for work time. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 2 Feb 1999 21:08:55 GMT Message-ID: <797ph7$qm8$1@roch.zetnet.co.uk> References: <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-100.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: roch.zetnet.co.uk 917989735 27336 194.247.41.124 (2 Feb 1999 21:08:55 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Feb 1999 21:08:55 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1999-01-31 jmfbahciv@aol.com said: :Nah. Dreaming is compiling the same buggy program over and over :and over just to make sure there's a bug. The premise is that :(at least) one time, the compilation will be successful (even :though no bugs were analyzed nor fixed). When that miracle happens, :the development is done. whaddayamean dreaming? When you work in C++, link bugs make this happen quite efficiently when you're awake... -- Communa (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) -- you know soft spoken changes nothing ###### From: nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 2 Feb 1999 23:58:08 GMT Organization: PrImE NuT (602)864-1005 <--- <--- <--- Lines: 27 Message-ID: <7983eg$ede$2@nnrp02.primenet.com> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr02.primenet.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@globalcenter.net X-Posted-By: nickb@206.165.6.202 (nickb) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test58 (13 May 97) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!digex!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.165.3.11!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail In article <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk>, Lars Duening wrote: > wrote: >> Dave Daniels wrote: >> >In article <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net>, "Donald Tees" wrote: >> >> "real world data" offline so it can test new software under >> >> emulation. Even nature knows better than to test live ... >> > >> >So, if we assume that premise is correct, do dreams represent the >> >first runs of things once it has got them to compile? I'd hate to >> >think that that is the stuff that is just about to go into >> >production. >> >> Nah. Dreaming is compiling the same buggy program over and over >> and over just to make sure there's a bug. > >Actually, dreams are test runs of your basic firmware (or should I say >'mushware'?). I thought dreams were just college students staying after-hours playing Quake on the really expensive machines upstairs. -- Nick Bensema 98-KUPD Red Card #710563 UIN: 2135445 ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ###### From: nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 3 Feb 1999 00:02:22 GMT Organization: PrImE NuT (602)864-1005 <--- <--- <--- Lines: 18 Message-ID: <7983me$ede$3@nnrp02.primenet.com> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr02.primenet.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@globalcenter.net X-Posted-By: nickb@206.165.6.202 (nickb) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test58 (13 May 97) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.165.3.11!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail In article , Ron Hunsinger wrote: >Never have been able to figure out why that sort of dream happens, except >that I notice it's usually when I'm thirsty. If I go back to sleep, I'm >always right back in the same loop, but if I drink some water before going >back to sleep I'll get a new dream. You may have discovered the dream equivalent of that Atari program I was developing when I was 7, where a file read correctly only if it wasn't named what I wanted it to be named. Otherwise, read errors ensued. Maybe that was a dream too.. -- Nick Bensema 98-KUPD Red Card #710563 UIN: 2135445 ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW References: <796p4b$1vt$4@antiochus.ultra.net> <78sg95$gbq$1@news.igs.net> <36B56176.D8867781@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <794civ$hvp$9@ligarius.ultra.net> <36b68337.108906256@news.xmission.com> Sender: stuart@zen X-Newsreader: SimpleNews-0.1 linux/i586 Lines: 56 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 02:54:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: host-209-214-194-181.mem.bellsouth.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 21:54:19 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.atl!upstream.atl!news2.mco.POSTED!not-for-mail jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >In article <36b68337.108906256@news.xmission.com>, > skb@xmission.removethis.com (Scott Brown) wrote: >>On Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:52:41 -0800, hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) >>wrote: >> >>>It could be worse. I've done complete testing/debugging sessions in my >>>sleep. Fortunately, when I wake up, I usually realize that sleep-testing >>>doesn't count, and the tests have to be run over again. At least I hope I >>>do. Sometimes the sessions are so realistic it takes me a while to >convince >>>myself they didn't really happen. >> >>My subconscious is a valuable programming tool. Once in a while when >>I'm developing software, I'll dream about a bug that I didn't test >>for, and hadn't even thought of testing for. Then when I run the test >>in real life, more often than not I find the bug I dreamt about. I've >>also, rarely, dreamt solutions or clues to problems I'd wrestled with >>and failed to solve earlier that day. >> >>It's pretty weird. >> >I don't think it's weird. It's how I always did my most >productive thinking. The trick is to remember the dreams >long enough to "store it" for work time. One of my most memorable achievements came one night the summer after my freshman year in college. I had been pondering a little math aimed at doing some basic graphics work and went to bed to sleep on it. About 3 am I woke up realizing that I had just dreamed the solution. Naturally, I turned on the lights and wrote it down before I forgot it. Of course, after a year or two more coursework, I came to realize the result was just too basic and well-known to have been worth the excitement :-) At the other end of my college career, I learned that other states of mind, specifically sleep deprevation, also lead to inspired results. I'll never forget the morning I was looking at some code thinking "How did he do this?" and then later figuring it out and thinking "Wow that was clever!" The scarey part was realizing that I had written it the night before just before maintaining enough counsciousness to get back to my room and fall asleep. Now if I could just recreate the magic on demand... Brian L. Stuart ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Wed, 03 Feb 99 11:03:06 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <799c8p$qea$7@antiochus.ultra.net> References: <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <797ph7$qm8$1@roch.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: d3.dial-15.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 3 Feb 1999 11:34:49 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news.ultranet.com!d3 In article <797ph7$qm8$1@roch.zetnet.co.uk>, lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > > >On 1999-01-31 jmfbahciv@aol.com said: > :Nah. Dreaming is compiling the same buggy program over and over > :and over just to make sure there's a bug. The premise is that > :(at least) one time, the compilation will be successful (even > :though no bugs were analyzed nor fixed). When that miracle happens, > :the development is done. > >whaddayamean dreaming? When you work in C++, link bugs make this happen >quite efficiently when you're awake... :-)))) Scary. Isn't it? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: dg@ (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:44:22 GMT Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Message-ID: <918060262.19122.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 918060262 nnrp-09:19122 NO-IDENT taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!taos.demon.co.uk!!dg In article <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk>, Lars Duening wrote: [...] >> Nah. Dreaming is compiling the same buggy program over and over >> and over just to make sure there's a bug. > >Actually, dreams are test runs of your basic firmware (or should I say >'mushware'?). I always thought dreams were when the sensor systems had been taken off-line, but the analysis software was still running and trying to process random gibberish. -- +- David Given ---------------McQ-+ | Work: dg@tao.co.uk | Smile! The Illuminati are watching. | Play: dgiven@iname.com | +- http://wired.st-and.ac.uk/~dg -+ ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:46:19 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 21 Message-ID: <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> <918060262.19122.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye0e.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 918078088 29793 206.248.37.142 (3 Feb 1999 21:41:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Feb 1999 21:41:28 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!feeder.qis.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!news.uunet.ca!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail David Given wrote in message <918060262.19122.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk>... >In article <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk>, >Lars Duening wrote: >[...] >>> Nah. Dreaming is compiling the same buggy program over and over >>> and over just to make sure there's a bug. >> >>Actually, dreams are test runs of your basic firmware (or should I say >>'mushware'?). > >I always thought dreams were when the sensor systems had been taken >off-line, but the analysis software was still running and trying to >process random gibberish. Naw. The sensors are being emulated so that you can test the software. If it was random, you would not have images. ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:28:21 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 58 Message-ID: <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> <918060262.19122.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye0e.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 918138203 2815 206.248.37.142 (4 Feb 1999 14:23:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Feb 1999 14:23:23 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail Well, I was testing the idea 30 years back as part of my pysch degree, when I found out about computers. Never did find out, but ended up with a computer science degree and have spent the last thirty years writing code instead. Computer terminology is much more specific than the "social sciences". For example: human term-double take; computers term -high priority interrupt, background to foreground. Both the brain and the computer are general purpose symbol manipulation devices. That the evolution of both lead to similar operation mechanisms is a realistic supposition. I would think it obvious to any experienced programmer that no device that changes algorithms on a regular basis (whether called "programs" or not), needs a safe way of testing before implementing. With computers, testing live is the best bet for suicide that I can think of. I see no reason to believe that bodies are any different. There is also a large body of experimental data to support the thesis. So, while no, I am not sure, I am 90% convinced. It would at least make a pretty good argument ... ;<) jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net>... >In article <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net>, > "Donald Tees" wrote: >> >>David Given wrote in message >><918060262.19122.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk>... >>>In article <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk>, >>>Lars Duening wrote: >>>[...] >>>>> Nah. Dreaming is compiling the same buggy program over and over >>>>> and over just to make sure there's a bug. >>>> >>>>Actually, dreams are test runs of your basic firmware (or should I say >>>>'mushware'?). >>> >>>I always thought dreams were when the sensor systems had been taken >>>off-line, but the analysis software was still running and trying to >>>process random gibberish. >> >> >>Naw. The sensors are being emulated so that you can test >>the software. If it was random, you would not have images. >> >Are you sure? :-)) > >/BAH > > >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> Organization: U S West X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test69 (20 September 1998) From: cmikk@tig.oss.uswest.net (Chris Mikkelson) NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.147.85.37 Message-ID: <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> Date: 4 Feb 1999 10:07:36 +0600 X-Trace: 4 Feb 1999 10:07:36 +0600, 204.147.85.37 Lines: 15 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@uswest.net. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.nyu.edu!novia!newsfeed1.uswest.net!news1.uswest.net!not-for-mail In article <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net>, Donald Tees wrote: >Well, I was testing the idea 30 years back as part of >my pysch degree, when I found out about computers. >Never did find out, but ended up with a computer >science degree and have spent the last thirty years >writing code instead. Computer terminology is much >more specific than the "social sciences". For ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the `social sciences' is: some do, some don't. -- Ernest Rutherford -Chris ###### Message-ID: <36B9D0DF.CD4D59C2@danet.com> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:54:55 -0500 From: "J. Benz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> <918060262.19122.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: pc-135.danet.com Lines: 12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!209.195.128.2!news.nauticom.net!pc-135.danet.com Donald Tees wrote: > I see > no reason to believe that bodies are any different. > > There is also a large body of experimental data to support > the thesis. Is that a 'fat' joke? ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Thu, 04 Feb 99 13:02:01 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> <918060262.19122.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: d11.dial-13.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 4 Feb 1999 13:33:54 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!-program!howland.erols.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.ultranet.com!d11 In article <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net>, "Donald Tees" wrote: > >David Given wrote in message ><918060262.19122.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk>... >>In article <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk>, >>Lars Duening wrote: >>[...] >>>> Nah. Dreaming is compiling the same buggy program over and over >>>> and over just to make sure there's a bug. >>> >>>Actually, dreams are test runs of your basic firmware (or should I say >>>'mushware'?). >> >>I always thought dreams were when the sensor systems had been taken >>off-line, but the analysis software was still running and trying to >>process random gibberish. > > >Naw. The sensors are being emulated so that you can test >the software. If it was random, you would not have images. > Are you sure? :-)) /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:26:01 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 16 Message-ID: <79cops$ah4$1@news.igs.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> <918060262.19122.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36B9D0DF.CD4D59C2@danet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye11.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 918152828 10788 206.248.37.145 (4 Feb 1999 18:27:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Feb 1999 18:27:08 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news1.bellglobal.com!torn!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail no J. Benz wrote in message <36B9D0DF.CD4D59C2@danet.com>... > > >Donald Tees wrote: > >> I see >> no reason to believe that bodies are any different. >> >> There is also a large body of experimental data to support >> the thesis. > >Is that a 'fat' joke? > ###### From: "Samael" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:25:48 -0000 Lines: 27 Message-ID: <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.147.140.152 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.itg.net.uk!192.168.0.20!192.168.0.1 Chris Mikkelson wrote in message <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net>... >In article <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net>, >Donald Tees wrote: >>Well, I was testing the idea 30 years back as part of >>my pysch degree, when I found out about computers. >>Never did find out, but ended up with a computer >>science degree and have spent the last thirty years >>writing code instead. Computer terminology is much >>more specific than the "social sciences". For > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the >`social sciences' is: some do, some don't. > -- Ernest Rutherford Not ven slightly true. With sufficiently large sample sizes, it is possible to spot trends and meta-trends (trends in the trends and what causes a particular trend to happen). The mistake comes whene people try to apply these to insuffficiently large sample groups (ie anything less than towns). Samael ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:28:06 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 46 Message-ID: <79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye04.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 918160156 12855 206.248.37.132 (4 Feb 1999 20:29:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Feb 1999 20:29:16 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!torn!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail A basic tenet of hard science is that is a law fails *once* it is not a law, it is a failed experiment. By those rules, the social sciences have no facts beyond the trivial, like "dead people do less well on tests than live people". When you know something is true 62% of the time if the sample size is at least 300 then what you are really saying is that you suspect there is a causality relationship, but you really do not have a clue in the world how it works. The reality of our understanding of psychology is reflected in the AI experiments. Samael wrote in message <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20>... > >Chris Mikkelson wrote in message <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net>... >>In article <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net>, >>Donald Tees wrote: >>>Well, I was testing the idea 30 years back as part of >>>my pysch degree, when I found out about computers. >>>Never did find out, but ended up with a computer >>>science degree and have spent the last thirty years >>>writing code instead. Computer terminology is much >>>more specific than the "social sciences". For >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >>The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the >>`social sciences' is: some do, some don't. >> -- Ernest Rutherford > > >Not ven slightly true. With sufficiently large sample sizes, it is possible >to spot trends and meta-trends (trends in the trends and what causes a >particular trend to happen). The mistake comes whene people try to apply >these to insuffficiently large sample groups (ie anything less than towns). > >Samael > > > > ###### From: Jim Esler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 15:07:28 -0600 Organization: udev.cdc.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20> <79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: heron.udev.cdc.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.nntp.mr.net!news.mr.net!cdshub.cdc.com!not-for-mail Donald Tees wrote: > > A basic tenet of hard science is that is a law fails > *once* it is not a law, it is a failed experiment. By those > rules, the social sciences have no facts beyond the > trivial, like "dead people do less well on tests than live > people". > > When you know something is true 62% of the > time if the sample size is at least 300 then what you > are really saying is that you suspect there is a causality > relationship, but you really do not have a clue in the world > how it works. So, do you believe tobacco use can cause cancer? -- Jim Esler ###### From: lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:25:39 GMT Organization: . Lines: 19 Message-ID: <36b9ddd8.339728@news.uunet.be> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <791js8$lqb$7@ligarius.ultra.net> <1dmi15c.16hur1v119pi9sN@usr268-edi.cableinet.co.uk> <918060262.19122.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36B9D0DF.CD4D59C2@danet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool02b-194-7-85-215.uunet.be Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!masternews.telia.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!not-for-mail alt.folklore.computers << "J. Benz" (Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:54:55 -0500); > Donald Tees wrote: > > > I see > > no reason to believe that bodies are any different. > > > > There is also a large body of experimental data to support > > the thesis. > > Is that a 'fat' joke? It's not *that* bad with the DOS file system. Oops - I see. YKYBHTLW... Trust the computer industry to shorten "Year 2000" to Y2K. It was this kind of thinking that caused the problem in the first place. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20> <79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> Organization: Plethora . Net - More net, less spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Lines: 16 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 07:49:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.166.146.8 X-Trace: ptah.visi.com 918200974 205.166.146.8 (Fri, 05 Feb 1999 01:49:34 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 01:49:34 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!not-for-mail In article <79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net>, Donald Tees wrote: >A basic tenet of hard science is that is a law fails >*once* it is not a law, it is a failed experiment. By those >rules, the social sciences have no facts beyond the >trivial, like "dead people do less well on tests than live >people". That's hardly universal; think about MCSE. -s -- Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Send me money - get cool programs and hardware! No commuting, please. Visit my new ISP --- More Net, Less Spam! ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20> Organization: U S West X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test69 (20 September 1998) From: cmikk@tig.oss.uswest.net (Chris Mikkelson) NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.147.85.37 Message-ID: <36bb1329.0@news2.uswest.net> Date: 5 Feb 1999 09:50:01 +0600 X-Trace: 5 Feb 1999 09:50:01 +0600, 204.147.85.37 Lines: 39 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@uswest.net. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!news-feed1.tiac.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.uswest.net!news1.uswest.net!not-for-mail In article <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20>, Samael wrote: > >Chris Mikkelson wrote in message <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net>... >>In article <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net>, >>Donald Tees wrote: >>>Well, I was testing the idea 30 years back as part of >>>my pysch degree, when I found out about computers. >>>Never did find out, but ended up with a computer >>>science degree and have spent the last thirty years >>>writing code instead. Computer terminology is much >>>more specific than the "social sciences". For >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >>The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the >>`social sciences' is: some do, some don't. >> -- Ernest Rutherford > > >Not ven slightly true. With sufficiently large sample sizes, it is possible >to spot trends and meta-trends (trends in the trends and what causes a >particular trend to happen). The mistake comes whene people try to apply >these to insuffficiently large sample groups (ie anything less than towns). Oops, did I forget the smiley? ;-) That quote was one of Rutherford's two gems in the Berkeley fortune file. The other one was: All science is either physics or stamp collecting. -- E. Rutherford This is clearly wrong. Everyone knows, all science is stamp collecting that is not mathematics. ;-) <== There, I remembered it this time.... -Chris ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 09:31:19 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 43 Message-ID: <79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20> <79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye08.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 918311547 7605 206.248.37.136 (6 Feb 1999 14:32:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Feb 1999 14:32:27 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.cwix.com!130.185.14.36!torn!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail I believe there may be a causality relationship, but I do not have a clue in the world about the actual "causes" of cancer, and how they work. If we did we could predict it and cure it, the same way we can predict the growth of a culture. I did not say statistics were not useful. I said that a hard fact cannot be proven by a statistic. The statistics on cigarettes tell you absolutely nothing about a specific cancer patient. Statistics become applicable to sample sizes of one when they reach a mean of 100% and a standard deviation of zero. That is called hard science. I experiment until I find that (for example) mass has a relationship to motion that is *constant*, and end up with a scientific law. As long as there are exceptions, I keep looking. I am saying, quite simply, that psychology has not reached the state of having *any* laws yet. Perhaps Pavlov's work could be simplified down to a statement that always worked, but I have never seen it done. Jim Esler wrote in message <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com>... >Donald Tees wrote: >> >> A basic tenet of hard science is that is a law fails >> *once* it is not a law, it is a failed experiment. By those >> rules, the social sciences have no facts beyond the >> trivial, like "dead people do less well on tests than live >> people". >> >> When you know something is true 62% of the >> time if the sample size is at least 300 then what you >> are really saying is that you suspect there is a causality >> relationship, but you really do not have a clue in the world >> how it works. > >So, do you believe tobacco use can cause cancer? >-- >Jim Esler ###### From: norris@mech.eng.usyd.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 6 Feb 1999 15:16:49 GMT Organization: The University of Sydney, Australia Lines: 38 Message-ID: <79hmd1$clh$2@metro.ucc.usyd.edu.au> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20> <79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com> <79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ebb.mech.eng.usyd.edu.au X-Trace: metro.ucc.usyd.edu.au 918314209 12977 129.78.14.203 (6 Feb 1999 15:16:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.usyd.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Feb 1999 15:16:49 GMT User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-981114 ("The Watchman") (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.30 (i586)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uow.edu.au!news.usyd.edu.au!not-for-mail Donald Tees expounded: : I believe there may be a causality relationship, but : I do not have a clue in the world about the actual : "causes" of cancer, and how they work. If we did : we could predict it and cure it, the same way we can : predict the growth of a culture. That's rather a bold statement. You might not have a clue about the actual "causes" of cancer, but there are several models of cancer. It dosen't mean it can be "cured" however. : Statistics become applicable to sample sizes of : one when they reach a mean of 100% and a standard : deviation of zero. That is called hard science. I : experiment until I find that (for example) mass has a relationship : to motion that is *constant*, and end up with a scientific : law. As long as there are exceptions, I keep looking. Thats rather a simplistic view of physics. Have you ever done any experiments? Have done any error estimates? Have you noticed that when experiments don't fit theory they get discarded and repeated until they do? Have you ever encountered an experiment where "they reach a mean of 100% and a standard deviation of zero"? If so, you are only kidding yourself. : I am saying, quite simply, that psychology has not reached : the state of having *any* laws yet. Perhaps Pavlov's work : could be simplified down to a statement that always worked, : but I have never seen it done. Psychology != Physics. But then physics has problems with complex behaviour too. -- Stuart Norris norris@mech.eng.usyd.edu.au Mechanical Engineering,University of Sydney,NSW 2006 wk:+(61 2) 9351-2272 http://www.maths.unsw.edu.au/~norris hm:+(61 2) 9326-5276 ###### From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 7 Feb 1999 15:23:42 GMT Message-ID: <79kb5u$p6b$1@roch.zetnet.co.uk> References: <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-141.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: roch.zetnet.co.uk 918401022 25803 194.247.40.180 (7 Feb 1999 15:23:42 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Feb 1999 15:23:42 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1999-02-04 James.E.Esler@cdc.com said: :> When you know something is true 62% of the :> time if the sample size is at least 300 then what you :> are really saying is that you suspect there is a causality :> relationship, but you really do not have a clue in the world :> how it works. :So, do you believe tobacco use can cause cancer? Well, there's a difference between believing that tobacco use can cause cancer and believing that the rollie between my fingers as I type will set off my lung cells on uncontrolled growth... -- Communa (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) -- you know soft spoken changes nothing ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 21:42:24 +0100 Message-ID: From: peterk@combo.ganesha.com (Dr. Peter Kittel) Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Reply-To: peterk @ combo.ganesha.com References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> X-Newsreader: rn7.bas Lines: 19 Organization: Private Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!newsfeed.arcor-ip.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!blackbush.xlink.net!ganesha.ganesha.com!shorter!combo.ganesha.com!peterk In article <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk (Chris Hedley) writes: >In article <36B17A94.2CA836A9@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>, >> >> Rather like UK license plates, mine for example is P 154 GDP. I know >> I'm getting old because about half the registrations I see have been >> valid opcodes on machines I've used at one time or another. > >My mam used to work in a vehicle licencing centre many years ago, and >can to this day tell which town a car was first registered in by its >number plate. That's rather easy in Germany. Our number plates start with a 1 to 3 letter combination defining the town where it's registered. There are around one or two hundred different town codes, so many people here know many or even all of them. -- Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail: Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ peterk @ combo.ganesha.com ###### From: slavins.at.hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost (Simon Slavin) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 23:34:06 +0000 Organization: First Sirian Bank Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20> <79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com> <79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: hearsay.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: hearsay.demon.co.uk:194.222.24.177 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 918516844 nnrp-11:13860 NO-IDENT hearsay.demon.co.uk:194.222.24.177 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 16 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newspeer1.nac.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!hearsay.demon.co.uk!user In article <79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net>, "Donald Tees" wrote: > I am saying, quite simply, that psychology has not reached > the state of having *any* laws yet. Slavin's law: If someone becomes aware that you are restricting their options they will like you less. Simon. -- No junk email please. ---------------------------------------------------------- 'Evil Bastard' is a value judgment. 'Trickster' is a job description. ###### From: Shez Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:52:20 +0000 Organization: the Last Stop Cafe Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20> <79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com> <79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 918592164 nnrp-01:16148 NO-IDENT xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 4.01 Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!xerez.demon.co.uk!Gnus >In article <79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net>, >"Donald Tees" wrote: > >> I am saying, quite simply, that psychology has not reached >> the state of having *any* laws yet. So you think the principles of psychophysics used in JPEG and MPEG image and sound encoding to produce subjectively lossless compression are basically just wild guesswork then? That we don't really have any hard and fast definite rules about human perception? I think that would come as quite a surprise to many people working in the audio, photographic and image processing industries. -Shez. -- ____________________________________________________________ Misfortune, n.: The kind of fortune that never misses. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" ____________________________________________________________ Email to Gnus is rejected: address any email replies to Shez. (c)Shez asserts the moral rights of authorship under the Berne Convention Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe at ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:22:12 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 28 Message-ID: <79qj4t$iu1$1@news.igs.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net><79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net><36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20><79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com><79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye18.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 918605789 19393 206.248.37.152 (10 Feb 1999 00:16:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Feb 1999 00:16:29 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!130.185.14.36!torn!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail I did not say engineers knew nothing about the human senses. That stuff did not come out of psychology. Shez wrote in message ... >>In article <79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net>, >>"Donald Tees" wrote: >> >>> I am saying, quite simply, that psychology has not reached >>> the state of having *any* laws yet. > >So you think the principles of psychophysics used in JPEG and MPEG >image and sound encoding to produce subjectively lossless compression >are basically just wild guesswork then? That we don't really have any >hard and fast definite rules about human perception? I think that would >come as quite a surprise to many people working in the audio, >photographic and image processing industries. > >-Shez. >-- >____________________________________________________________ >Misfortune, n.: The kind of fortune that never misses. > -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" >____________________________________________________________ >Email to Gnus is rejected: address any email replies to Shez. >(c)Shez asserts the moral rights of authorship under the Berne Convention >Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe at ###### From: lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:12:19 GMT Organization: . Lines: 17 Message-ID: <36c0786d.409418@news.uunet.be> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20> <79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com> <79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool02b-194-7-147-43.uunet.be Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!not-for-mail alt.folklore.computers << slavins.at.hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost (Simon Slavin)(Mon, 08 Feb 1999 23:34:06 +0000); > In article <79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net>, > "Donald Tees" wrote: > > > I am saying, quite simply, that psychology has not reached > > the state of having *any* laws yet. > > Slavin's law: If someone becomes aware that you are restricting their > options they will like you less. > > Simon. Hmmm... ever heard about bondage? ###### Message-ID: <36C11821.BF8ABA84@net66.com> From: Mark Statzer Organization: Helena Handbasket X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.214.226.128 X-Trace: news3.ispnews.com 918624296 208.214.226.128 (Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:24:56 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:24:56 EDT Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 23:24:49 -0600 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!hub1.ispnews.com!news3.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail "Dr. Peter Kittel" wrote: > That's rather easy in Germany. Our number plates start with a 1 to 3 > letter combination defining the town where it's registered. There are > around one or two hundred different town codes, so many people here > know many or even all of them. Back here in the states, in Indiana the plates have a two-number prefix that matches the name of the County, alphabetically. I believe the letter after that even matched the office in that County; 82 A 1333 82 being Vanderburgh County..... -- Any Sufficiently Advanced Technology is indistinguishable from a Rigged Demo. ###### From: Shez Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:09:21 +0000 Organization: the Last Stop Cafe Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net> <79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net> <36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20> <79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com> <79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net> <79qj4t$iu1$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 918623395 nnrp-02:29543 NO-IDENT xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 4.01 Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!xerez.demon.co.uk!Gnus Donald Tees of IGS - Information Gateway Services writes: >I did not say engineers knew nothing about the human >senses. That stuff did not come out of psychology. > >Shez wrote in message ... >>So you think the principles of psychophysics used in JPEG and MPEG >>image and sound encoding to produce subjectively lossless compression >>are basically just wild guesswork then? That we don't really have any >>hard and fast definite rules about human perception? I think that would >>come as quite a surprise to many people working in the audio, >>photographic and image processing industries. Well if you're going to exclude useful branches of Psychology from your argument that Psychology hasn't come up with anything useful then you obviously win the argument by tautology. -Shez. -- ____________________________________________________________ Blore's Razor: Given a choice between two theories, take the one which is funnier. ____________________________________________________________ Email to Gnus is rejected: address any email replies to Shez. Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe at ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:24:01 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 31 Message-ID: <79rte5$ddj$1@news.igs.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net><79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net><36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20><79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com><79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net> <79qj4t$iu1$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye07.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 918649093 13747 206.248.37.135 (10 Feb 1999 12:18:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Feb 1999 12:18:13 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.191.82.231!rockie.attcanada.net!attcanada!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail Well, the only branches that I exclude are the ones that I never ran into during two degrees in psychology. Shez wrote in message ... >Donald Tees of IGS - Information Gateway >Services writes: >>I did not say engineers knew nothing about the human >>senses. That stuff did not come out of psychology. >> >>Shez wrote in message ... >>>So you think the principles of psychophysics used in JPEG and MPEG >>>image and sound encoding to produce subjectively lossless compression >>>are basically just wild guesswork then? That we don't really have any >>>hard and fast definite rules about human perception? I think that would >>>come as quite a surprise to many people working in the audio, >>>photographic and image processing industries. > >Well if you're going to exclude useful branches of Psychology from your >argument that Psychology hasn't come up with anything useful then you >obviously win the argument by tautology. > >-Shez. >-- >____________________________________________________________ >Blore's Razor: >Given a choice between two theories, take the one which is funnier. >____________________________________________________________ >Email to Gnus is rejected: address any email replies to Shez. >Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe at ###### From: "Samael" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:28:45 -0000 Lines: 36 Message-ID: <36c15127.0@192.168.0.20> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <79afq8$t31$1@news.igs.net><79c7k2$fl7$3@antiochus.ultra.net> <79cagr$2nv$1@news.igs.net><36b9c5c8.0@news2.uswest.net> <36b9d7f4.0@192.168.0.20><79cvus$chn$1@news.igs.net> <36BA0C10.5DA5@cdc.com><79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net> <79qj4t$iu1$1@news.igs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.147.134.20 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!masternews.telia.net!fanta!news.algonet.se!news-feed1.eu.concert.net!btnet-peer!btnet!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.itg.net.uk!192.168.0.20!192.168.0.1 Human perception is based around the way the brain works. It is part of psychology. Samael Donald Tees wrote in message <79qj4t$iu1$1@news.igs.net>... >I did not say engineers knew nothing about the human >senses. That stuff did not come out of psychology. > >Shez wrote in message ... >>>In article <79hjpr$7dl$1@news.igs.net>, >>>"Donald Tees" wrote: >>> >>>> I am saying, quite simply, that psychology has not reached >>>> the state of having *any* laws yet. >> >>So you think the principles of psychophysics used in JPEG and MPEG >>image and sound encoding to produce subjectively lossless compression >>are basically just wild guesswork then? That we don't really have any >>hard and fast definite rules about human perception? I think that would >>come as quite a surprise to many people working in the audio, >>photographic and image processing industries. >> >>-Shez. >>-- >>____________________________________________________________ >>Misfortune, n.: The kind of fortune that never misses. >> -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" >>____________________________________________________________ >>Email to Gnus is rejected: address any email replies to Shez. >>(c)Shez asserts the moral rights of authorship under the Berne Convention >>Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe at > > ###### From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 10 Feb 1999 20:14:51 GMT Message-ID: <79spbr$1p0$1@roch.zetnet.co.uk> References: <36c0786d.409418@news.uunet.be> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-133.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: roch.zetnet.co.uk 918677691 1824 194.247.40.170 (10 Feb 1999 20:14:51 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Feb 1999 20:14:51 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Lines: 12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1999-02-09 lucvdv@null.net(LucVanderVeken) said: :> Slavin's law: If someone becomes aware that you are restricting :>their options they will like you less. :Hmmm... ever heard about bondage? Communa's corollary: Insert the words "without their permission" where appropriate. -- Communa (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) -- you know soft spoken changes nothing ###### From: william.hamblen@nashville.com (William Hamblen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:51:57 -0600 Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <36C11821.BF8ABA84@net66.com> Reply-To: william.hamblen@nashville.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.65.180.73 X-Trace: 918723382 4TJCV727NB449CF41C usenet53.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!news-out.supernews.com.MISMATCH!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!william.hamblen Mark Statzer (mstatz@net66.com) wrote: : Back here in the states, in Indiana the plates have a two-number prefix : that matches the name of the County, alphabetically. I believe the : letter after that even matched the office in that County; : 82 A 1333 : 82 being Vanderburgh County..... In Tennessee, car tags used to start with 1 for Davidson County, 2 for Shelby County, etc., but now they just put the name of the county on a reflecting strip on the bottom. The 3 letter - 3 digit combinations given out now come in no particular order except they do cull out the combinations that spell naughty words. ###### From: David Scheidt Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Supersedes: <79t8nv$mtg$1@eve.enteract.com> Date: 11 Feb 1999 00:44:32 GMT Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <36C11821.BF8ABA84@net66.com> Reply-To: David Scheidt NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.143.6 X-Superseded-By: David Scheidt Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!dscheidt Mark Statzer wrote: : Back here in the states, in Indiana the plates have a two-number prefix : that matches the name of the County, alphabetically. I believe the : letter after that even matched the office in that County; : 82 A 1333 I don't think the letters mean anything, except for low numbered D and Rs, which stand for donkey and elephent, respectively. In some counties, they seem I drive past a billboard that has an advert for some local college. The number is 800-I LUV GCC. It took me a month to think it was odd for the FSF to be doing roadside avertising. David -- dscheidt@enteract.com But I simply can't find it anywhere in me to imagine that someone might want to stick sharp pasta spikes down into his penis. -D.M. Procida ###### From: "David Carey" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 11 Feb 1999 13:16:58 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 16 Message-ID: <79ul8a$op3@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <36C11821.BF8ABA84@net66.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.75.41.186 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.225!attworldnet!newsadm >they do cull out the combinations that spell naughty words. > > I think it would be interesting to see what might be considered naughty in different areas. I once knew someone who had a vanity plate with his initials - PED. My wife (who is French) thought that very funny. To me (from the US) it meant nothing special. Would other Europeans find fault with these initials? Also, there are combinations that might bother only certain people if on their own plates. When I worked for Univac I would not have wanted a plate with the letters IBM or DEC. dc ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW References: <36c0786d.409418@news.uunet.be> <79spbr$1p0$1@roch.zetnet.co.uk> Organization: Plethora . Net - More net, less spam! X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) Lines: 14 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:43:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.166.146.8 X-Trace: ptah.visi.com 918751380 205.166.146.8 (Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:43:00 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:43:00 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!not-for-mail In article <79spbr$1p0$1@roch.zetnet.co.uk>, wrote: >Communa's corollary: Insert the words "without their permission" where >appropriate. I'd like to suggest that this actually belongs as a Law in itself. There are *THOUSANDS* of Usenet flamewars that revolve around not hearing the "implicit" use of "without [foo's] permission". -s -- Copyright 1999, All rights reserved. Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter. Boycott Spamazon! Send me money - get cool programs and hardware! No commuting, please. Visit my new ISP --- More Net, Less Spam! ###### From: cs1cl@stoat.shef.ac.uk (C Lamb) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 11 Feb 1999 18:05:05 GMT Organization: Sheffield University, UK Lines: 29 Message-ID: <79v64h$mo3$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <36C11821.BF8ABA84@net66.com> <79ul8a$op3@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> Reply-To: cs1cl@stoat.shef.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: stoat.shef.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.ecrc.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server5.netnews.ja.net!news.shef.ac.uk!stoat!cs1cl David Carey (davidcarey@worldnet.att.net) wrote: : >they do cull out the combinations that spell naughty words. : > : > : I think it would be interesting to see what might be considered naughty in : different areas. I once knew someone who had a vanity plate with his : initials - PED. My wife (who is French) thought that very funny. To me : (from the US) it meant nothing special. Would other Europeans find fault : with these initials? could it be that all French words that we would spell paed- are started ped-? (well p{\'e}d if you are LaTeX friendly). I found similar things after I started using French regularly. There is a car in the car-park under this building with the plate that includes HLM. This three letter combination would elicit a laugh from francophones since HLM - Habitation a loyer modere, which also was a song title and also a bizzare thing to have on a car. In keeping with this ng I suppose we have all found op-codes in plates that makes us chuckle. C : Also, there are combinations that might bother only certain people if on : their own plates. When I worked for Univac I would not have wanted a plate : with the letters IBM or DEC. : dc ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:56:18 +0000 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <36C55A52.B40B39A9@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <36C11821.BF8ABA84@net66.com> <79ul8a$op3@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 918905770 nnrp-07:6517 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail David Carey wrote: > Also, there are combinations that might bother only certain people if on > their own plates. When I worked for Univac I would not have wanted a plate > with the letters IBM or DEC. Although, curiously, in the UK the letters DP are Reading[1], Berks, site of Digital Park, the UK headquarters of DEC. This means that the letters PDP (in fact anything followed by DP, my own car, for example, was registered in Reading and is P154GDP) only occur for cars registered in Reading. I've often wondered if there was a connection... [1] For non-uk readers, the town is pronounced "Redding" -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### From: genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 02:25:18 GMT Organization: Okanagan Internet Junction Lines: 28 Message-ID: <36c5af09.1683528@news.shuswap.net> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <36C11821.BF8ABA84@net66.com> <79ul8a$op3@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> <36C55A52.B40B39A9@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: genew@shuswap.net NNTP-Posting-Host: salmonarm1-13.shuswap.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!felix.junction.net!not-for-mail Robert Billing wrote: >David Carey wrote: > >> Also, there are combinations that might bother only certain people if on >> their own plates. When I worked for Univac I would not have wanted a plate >> with the letters IBM or DEC. > > Although, curiously, in the UK the letters DP are Reading[1], Berks, >site of Digital Park, the UK headquarters of DEC. This means that the >letters PDP (in fact anything followed by DP, my own car, for example, >was registered in Reading and is P154GDP) only occur for cars registered >in Reading. I've often wondered if there was a connection... > >[1] For non-uk readers, the town is pronounced "Redding" For non-railroaders, Reading, PA and the railroad of the same name are also pronounced "redding". Remember this the next time you play Monopoly. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 14 Feb 1999 02:51:38 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 13 Message-ID: <7a5dnq$d31@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <36C11821.BF8ABA84@net66.com> <79ul8a$op3@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> <36C55A52.B40B39A9@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <36c5af09.1683528@news.shuswap.net> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet5.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!204.181.4.141!xcski.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Gene Wirchenko (genew@shuswap.net) writes: > > For non-railroaders, Reading, PA and the railroad of the same > name are also pronounced "redding". Remember this the next time you > play Monopoly. If I knew that when I played the game, I might have won. PA = Pennsylvania, right? Ie. Penn's woodland. Since when does Reading = Redding on this side of the pond? (And did that railroad have a computer?) ###### From: jvarela@mind.spring.com (John Varela) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 14 Feb 1999 20:29:09 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <36C11821.BF8ABA84@net66.com> <79ul8a$op3@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> <36C55A52.B40B39A9@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <36c5af09.1683528@news.shuswap.net> Reply-To: jvarela@mind.spring.com NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.26.83 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: ProNews/2 Version 1.00 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail On Sun, 14 Feb 1999 02:25:18, genew@shuswap.net (Gene Wirchenko) wrote: > Robert Billing wrote: > >[1] For non-uk readers, the town is pronounced "Redding" > > For non-railroaders, Reading, PA and the railroad of the same > name are also pronounced "redding". Ditto the town in Massachusetts north of Boston just outside Rte 128. -- John Varela (delete . between mind and spring to e-mail me) ###### From: sheeba222@generous.net (Bonnie Hammel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:35:33 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Sun Feb 14 15:35:05 1999 References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <36C11821.BF8ABA84@net66.com> <79t8nv$mtg$1@eve.enteract.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: ip51.lancaster3.pa.pub-ip.psi.net X-ELN-Date: 14 Feb 1999 23:33:50 GMT Message-ID: <36c75d1f.3614848@news.earthlink.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!masternews.telia.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail On 11 Feb 1999 00:37:19 GMT, David Scheidt wrote: >Mark Statzer wrote: >: Back here in the states, in Indiana the plates have a two-number prefix >: that matches the name of the County, alphabetically. I believe the >: letter after that even matched the office in that County; >: 82 A 1333 >I don't think the letters mean anything, except for low numbered D and Rs, >which stand for donkey and elephent, respectively. In some counties, they seem >to have run out of letters, nad are using pairs like 71 ac 1234. The letters don "mean" anything, but they would assign all the 82 A plates to the same branch. There are 94 counties, but you see plates starting with 95-99. I suspect most of them are for Marion County (Indpls). Allen County (Fort Wayne) has only the 2 prefix, but they have gone to double letters in order to have enough plates. ###### Message-ID: <36C8F208.CB7802E@net66.com> From: Mark Statzer Organization: Helena Handbasket X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW References: <782mv3$9av$2@roch.zetnet.co.uk> <78t84e$7a3$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <36C11821.BF8ABA84@net66.com> <79t8nv$mtg$1@eve.enteract.com> <36c75d1f.3614848@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.214.226.182 X-Trace: news12.ispnews.com 919138826 208.214.226.182 (Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:20:26 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 23:20:26 EDT Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:20:25 -0600 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.ispnews.com!news12.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Bonnie Hammel wrote: > The letters don "mean" anything, but they would assign all the 82 A > plates to the same branch. > > There are 94 counties, but you see plates starting with 95-99. I > suspect most of them are for Marion County (Indpls). Allen County > (Fort Wayne) has only the 2 prefix, but they have gone to double > letters in order to have enough plates. I assumed as much - it figures that IndiaNoplace gets several sets of numbers.... Mark "Hoosier trapped in rural Illinois" Statzer -- Any Sufficiently Advanced Technology is indistinguishable from a Rigged Demo.