From: Larry Anderson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Eliza and Parry Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:43:23 -0800 Organization: Goldrush World Access, Ltd. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> Reply-To: foxnhare@goldrush.com NNTP-Posting-Host: jx-067.goldrush.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.pbi.net!206.171.171.4!news.goldrush.com!usenet Ok, a couple nights ago I was reading an old Creative Computing (the new stuff just doesn't compare) and they had a discussions on language systems with Eliza a couple other programs and Parry as examples. For those of you unintiated Eliza is a BASIC program that acts as a psudeo phycoananalyser and bases its responses on what you type into the computer, it's almost like having a conversation. Parry is a similar program with a more advanced parser and instead of being a psychoanalyser, Parry is a neurotic. There was a couple articles done on Parry/Eliza conversations etc. Later in the 80s there was a brief fad for an updated 'babbler' which was called Ractor. So getting back to Parry, is there any BASIC source available on the net for that program?? Larry Anderson ###### From: viro@vernier.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 12 Dec 1998 04:26:40 -0500 Organization: -ENOENT Lines: 26 Message-ID: <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vernier.math.psu.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!12.127.16.135!attmt2!ip.att.net!jupiter2.cc.gettysburg.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail In article <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com>, Larry Anderson wrote: >Ok, a couple nights ago I was reading an old Creative Computing (the new stuff >just doesn't compare) and they had a discussions on language systems with >Eliza a couple other programs and Parry as examples. > >For those of you unintiated Eliza is a BASIC program that acts as a psudeo >phycoananalyser and bases its responses on what you type into the computer, >it's almost like having a conversation. Parry is a similar program with a >more advanced parser and instead of being a psychoanalyser, Parry is a >neurotic. There was a couple articles done on Parry/Eliza conversations etc. >Later in the 80s there was a brief fad for an updated 'babbler' which was >called Ractor. > >So getting back to Parry, is there any BASIC source available on the net for >that program?? Dunno about BASIC, but if LISP with healthy dose of -10 assembler is OK for you - look at AI Attic. I never heard about Eliza in BASIC, BTW. Normally such things are done in something LISP-like. Sure, BASIC is Turning complete, but IMHO anybody trying to port Eliza and its ilk on it _needs_ a medical help. Badly. -- "You're one of those condescending Unix computer users!" "Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer" - Dilbert. ###### From: hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:43:53 -0600 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.d2.d8 X-Server-Date: 12 Dec 1998 15:43:53 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs In article <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu>, viro@vernier.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) wrote: >Dunno about BASIC, but if LISP with healthy dose of -10 assembler is OK for >you - look at AI Attic. I never heard about Eliza in BASIC, BTW. Normally >such things are done in something LISP-like. Sure, BASIC is Turning complete, >but IMHO anybody trying to port Eliza and its ilk on it _needs_ a medical >help. Badly. Done -long- ago, in the old games' source books. I forget the author. I keep thinking "Aho", but that's not right. I used to type Eliza in to a TRS-80 model 1, to give you an idea of the age of this. -- Howard S Shubs The Denim Adept ###### Message-ID: <36729B6C.602C0408@net66.com> From: Mark Statzer Organization: Helena Handbasket X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:35:56 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.214.226.77 X-Trace: news12.ispnews.com 913480560 208.214.226.77 (Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:36:00 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:36:00 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!209.44.33.119!hub1.ispnews.com!news12.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Alexander Viro wrote: > > > >So getting back to Parry, is there any BASIC source available on the net for > >that program?? > > Dunno about BASIC, but if LISP with healthy dose of -10 assembler is OK for > you - look at AI Attic. I never heard about Eliza in BASIC, BTW. Normally > such things are done in something LISP-like. Sure, BASIC is Turning complete, > but IMHO anybody trying to port Eliza and its ilk on it _needs_ a medical > help. Badly. The first time I ever *saw* Eliza was in Basic on a TRS-80 Model 1 around 1979... Mark "Whaaaa?" Statzer ###### From: Albert Ratzlaff Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:22:35 -0300 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3672984B.FB2BCDC7@infonet.com.py> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-532.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!pln-e!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Alexander Viro wrote: > > Dunno about BASIC, but if LISP with healthy dose of -10 assembler is OK for > you - look at AI Attic. I never heard about Eliza in BASIC, BTW. Normally > such things are done in something LISP-like. Sure, BASIC is Turning complete, > but IMHO anybody trying to port Eliza and its ilk on it _needs_ a medical > help. Badly. > I think Eliza is included in the Emacs distribution, and that is Lisp. Regards Albert Ratzlaff ###### From: lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:28:56 GMT Organization: . Lines: 18 Message-ID: <36759967.14681210@news.uunet.be> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool02b-194-7-80-206.uunet.be Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!diablo.theplanet.net!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!not-for-mail Also sprach viro@vernier.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) on 12 Dec 1998 04:26:40 -0500 to alt.folklore.computers: > Dunno about BASIC, but if LISP with healthy dose of -10 assembler is OK for > you - look at AI Attic. I never heard about Eliza in BASIC, BTW. Normally > such things are done in something LISP-like. Sure, BASIC is Turning complete, > but IMHO anybody trying to port Eliza and its ilk on it _needs_ a medical > help. Badly. BASIC is the only Eliza I ever heard of. Radio Shack used to sell a version for the TRS-80 in the early 80s. It wouldn't surprize me if the Lisp version is a port from BASIC, instead of the other way around. -- "Managing senior programmers is like herding cats." --Dave Platt ###### From: bernie@fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 18:03:17 GMT Organization: Fantasy Farm Fibers Lines: 37 Message-ID: <3672966d.259173711@news.infoave.net> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pem05-39.swva.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.infoave.net 913485537 9348 208.140.224.103 (12 Dec 1998 17:58:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news3.infoave.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Dec 1998 17:58:57 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!news-in-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news3.infoave.net!news.infoave.net!not-for-mail Larry Anderson wrote: } For those of you unintiated Eliza is a BASIC program that acts as a psudeo } phycoananalyser and bases its responses on what you type into the computer, } it's almost like having a conversation. Just to clarify. Eliza was a program invented by Joe Wizenbaum at MIT in around 1964. He wrote it for their CTSS system in a language called something like IPLV or some such. I was working at BBN and had just joined the ACM and in the very first issue of "Communications of the ACM" [March, 1965, I think it was] there was an article about Eliza. The program fascinated me [and indeed, I had accounts at MIT at the time and so I could actually play with "the real thing"]. BBN was heavily into AI back then [and indeed, had developed the sort-of-canonical version of Lisp, 'BBN-Lisp'] and although I was in a real-time systems group, I thought a Lisp-hack would be in order, so I coded up a version of Eliza [based just on the description of the program from the CACM article], and called it "doctor". since it was written in BBN-LISP and there were BBN-LISP systems all over the ARPAnet at the time, the program spread pretty quickly. } ... Parry is a similar program with a } more advanced parser and instead of being a psychoanalyser, Parry is a } neurotic. In particular, the hackers at SRI decided that doctor [popular though it was] was pretty lame, overall, and so they coded up 'parry' to outwit "doctor". /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- ###### From: nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 12 Dec 1998 18:12:30 GMT Organization: PrImE NuT (602)864-1005 <--- <--- <--- Lines: 19 Message-ID: <74ubme$9u3$1@nnrp03.primenet.com> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr02.primenet.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@globalcenter.net X-Posted-By: nickb@206.165.6.202 (nickb) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test58 (13 May 97) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newspeer1.nac.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail In article <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu>, Alexander Viro wrote: > >Dunno about BASIC, but if LISP with healthy dose of -10 assembler is OK for >you - look at AI Attic. I never heard about Eliza in BASIC, BTW. Normally >such things are done in something LISP-like. Sure, BASIC is Turning complete, >but IMHO anybody trying to port Eliza and its ilk on it _needs_ a medical >help. Badly. Just about every version of Eliza I ever saw for the C64 and Atari was in BASIC. Alternatives to BASIC were few and far-between. -- Nick Bensema 98-KUPD Red Card #710563 UIN: 2135445 ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: eric@fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry X-Nntp-Posting-Host: fudge.uchicago.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) X-Newsposter: Pnews 4.0-test51 (15 Jan 97) Organization: The University of Chicago References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 18:48:44 GMT Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!128.174.5.49!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!uwvax!uchinews!not-for-mail Howard S Shubs wrote: > Done -long- ago, in the old games' source books. I forget the author. I > keep thinking "Aho", but that's not right. I used to type Eliza in to a > TRS-80 model 1, to give you an idea of the age of this. The name you're looking for is Dave Ahl, the founder of Creative Computing magazine. The BASIC port of Eliza, though, was done by Jeff Shrager, and was then modified for Microsoft BASIC by Steve North. (David H. Ahl, ed., _More BASIC Computer Games_, Workman, 1979, pp. 56-58) eric ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: eric@fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry X-Nntp-Posting-Host: fudge.uchicago.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) X-Newsposter: Pnews 4.0-test51 (15 Jan 97) Organization: The University of Chicago References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <3672966d.259173711@news.infoave.net> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 19:17:06 GMT Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!uwm.edu!uwvax!uchinews!not-for-mail Bernie Cosell wrote: > Just to clarify. Eliza was a program invented by Joe Wizenbaum at MIT in > around 1964. He wrote it for their CTSS system in a language called > something like IPLV or some such. Thanks for posting the story of the origin of doctor. I think the original Eliza was written using SLIP (Weizenbaum's list-processing subroutine library for Fortran), not IPL-V, though. Unfortunately I've misplaced wherever it is that I read this, though I imagine it was the CACM article you referred to. eric ###### From: jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 13 Dec 1998 04:06:35 GMT Organization: The University of Iowa Lines: 17 Message-ID: <74vegb$vvs$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> References: <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!nntp.msen.com!news.altair.com!NewsNG.Chicago.Qual.Net!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail From article <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com>, by Larry Anderson : > > For those of you unintiated Eliza is a BASIC program Eliza began life as a LISP program, written back before the PC existed. I first learned about Eliza in an AI course back in 1972. I also learned about Parry there, and I assume Parry was written in LISP also. In any case, you can get decent LISPs for PCs these days, so why not try to get the original running? Any version of Eliza you've seen in BASIC is a derivitive work and not the original. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:40:03 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 32 Message-ID: <3672f4fa.3175845@news.vip.net> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.53 X-Trace: 913531041 A01OARAUVD435CCD1C usenet80.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Larry Anderson wrote: >Ok, a couple nights ago I was reading an old Creative Computing (the new stuff >just doesn't compare) and they had a discussions on language systems with >Eliza a couple other programs and Parry as examples. > >For those of you unintiated Eliza is a BASIC program that acts as a psudeo >phycoananalyser and bases its responses on what you type into the computer, >it's almost like having a conversation. Parry is a similar program with a >more advanced parser and instead of being a psychoanalyser, Parry is a >neurotic. There was a couple articles done on Parry/Eliza conversations etc. ^^^^^^^^ Paranoid actually. IIRC, he did fool psychs who were shown output. >Later in the 80s there was a brief fad for an updated 'babbler' which was >called Ractor. > >So getting back to Parry, is there any BASIC source available on the net for >that program?? I never heard of any. What I read of Parry was in the context of larger systems and sometime before. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:40:06 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 27 Message-ID: <3672f58e.3323328@news.vip.net> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <36759967.14681210@news.uunet.be> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.53 X-Trace: 913531045 A01OARAUVD435CCD1C usenet80.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) wrote: >Also sprach viro@vernier.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) on 12 Dec >1998 04:26:40 -0500 to alt.folklore.computers: > >> Dunno about BASIC, but if LISP with healthy dose of -10 assembler is OK for >> you - look at AI Attic. I never heard about Eliza in BASIC, BTW. Normally >> such things are done in something LISP-like. Sure, BASIC is Turning complete, >> but IMHO anybody trying to port Eliza and its ilk on it _needs_ a medical >> help. Badly. > >BASIC is the only Eliza I ever heard of. Radio Shack used to sell >a version for the TRS-80 in the early 80s. > >It wouldn't surprize me if the Lisp version is a port from BASIC, >instead of the other way around. It would me. I had heard of Eliza years before micros. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:54:52 GMT Organization: . Lines: 21 Message-ID: <367b9806.2876536@news.uunet.be> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <36759967.14681210@news.uunet.be> <3672f58e.3323328@news.vip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool02b-194-7-80-118.uunet.be Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!diablo.theplanet.net!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!not-for-mail Also sprach genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) on Sun, 13 Dec 1998 06:40:06 GMT to alt.folklore.computers: > lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) wrote: > >[so] It wouldn't surprize me if the Lisp version is a port from BASIC, > >instead of the other way around. > > It would me. I had heard of Eliza years before micros. In that case I humbly sit down and acknowledge your authority :-) (I first played with a computer - not a micro - around the time micro's became available). And as someone else pointed out in this thread, Eliza was born around 1964, which means she's only 6 years younger than I am (and a lot older than I expected her to be). -- "Managing senior programmers is like herding cats." --Dave Platt ###### From: pg@sff.net (Paul Guertin) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:46:49 GMT Organization: Amalgamated Karma Lines: 23 Message-ID: <36738613.31725630@news.newsguy.com> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <74ubme$9u3$1@nnrp03.primenet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-572.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!209.155.56.21!pln-e!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 On 12 Dec 1998 18:12:30 GMT, nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) wrote: > In article <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu>, > Alexander Viro wrote: > > > >Dunno about BASIC, but if LISP with healthy dose of -10 assembler is OK for > >you - look at AI Attic. I never heard about Eliza in BASIC, BTW. Normally > >such things are done in something LISP-like. Sure, BASIC is Turning complete, > >but IMHO anybody trying to port Eliza and its ilk on it _needs_ a medical > >help. Badly. > > Just about every version of Eliza I ever saw for the C64 and Atari was > in BASIC. I always wondered how faithful to the original those BASIC versions of Eliza were. I think a lot of them were written from scratch by people who had read about Eliza's pattern-matching and substitution algorithm in a magazine (most likely Creative Computing), but never saw the original LISP source. Paul Guertin pg@sff.net ###### From: bernie@fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:03:39 GMT Organization: Fantasy Farm Fibers Lines: 22 Message-ID: <36740f55.355676963@news.infoave.net> References: <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74vegb$vvs$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pem-37.swva.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.infoave.net 913575571 8342 208.140.224.149 (13 Dec 1998 18:59:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news3.infoave.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 1998 18:59:31 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!209.208.190.2!news.globix.net!news-pen-2.sprintlink.net!news-east1.sprintlink.net!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!news-in-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news3.infoave.net!news.infoave.net!not-for-mail jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) wrote: } From article <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com>, } by Larry Anderson : } > } > For those of you unintiated Eliza is a BASIC program } } Eliza began life as a LISP program, ... Not exactly [speaking as the person who wrote the LISP version].. } Any version of Eliza you've seen in BASIC is a derivitive work and not the } original. And, indeed, any version you've seen in Lisp is, too, a derivative work and not the original... /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- ###### From: "Mark Harrison" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:39:07 +0800 Organization: gte.net Lines: 18 Message-ID: <750g79$nhp$1@news-2.news.gte.net> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <3672966d.259173711@news.infoave.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.74.180.86 X-Auth: DA54C20F56CB84CE48D08491 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!worldfeed.news.gte.net!not-for-mail Eric Fischer wrote in message ... >Thanks for posting the story of the origin of doctor. I think the >original Eliza was written using SLIP (Weizenbaum's list-processing >subroutine library for Fortran), not IPL-V, though. Unfortunately >I've misplaced wherever it is that I read this, though I imagine it >was the CACM article you referred to. I think Weizenbaum mentions it in his book "Computing Power and Human Reason". Mark. markh@usai.asiainfo.com Mark Harrison at AsiaInfo Computer Networks, Beijing, China ###### From: Bob Shair (courtesy) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 13 Dec 1998 23:12:59 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Lines: 25 Message-ID: <751hlr$i0g$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> References: <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74vegb$vvs$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <36740f55.355676963@news.infoave.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.itg.uiuc.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970217; 000047148900 AIX 2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!delphi.itg.uiuc.edu!not-for-mail Bernie Cosell wrote: > jones@cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) wrote: > } From article <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com>, > } by Larry Anderson : > } > > } > For those of you unintiated Eliza is a BASIC program > } > } Eliza began life as a LISP program, ... > Not exactly [speaking as the person who wrote the LISP version].. > } Any version of Eliza you've seen in BASIC is a derivitive work and not the > } original. > And, indeed, any version you've seen in Lisp is, too, a derivative work and > not the original... I first met Eliza in 1973, in an implementation in APL\360. I'd always assumed that was the original. Interesting to learn that it wasn't. -- Bob Shair rmshair@delphi.itg.uiuc.edu Open Systems Specialist Champaign, Illinois /* Opinions expressed are mine... go get your own! */ ###### From: lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:19:23 GMT Organization: . Lines: 16 Message-ID: <36774b5c.8954596@news.uunet.be> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <74ubme$9u3$1@nnrp03.primenet.com> <36738613.31725630@news.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool02b-194-7-147-9.uunet.be Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!not-for-mail Also sprach pg@sff.net (Paul Guertin) on Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:46:49 GMT to alt.folklore.computers: > I always wondered how faithful to the original those BASIC versions > of Eliza were. I think a lot of them were written from scratch by > people who had read about Eliza's pattern-matching and substitution > algorithm in a magazine (most likely Creative Computing), but never > saw the original LISP source. As for how original that LISP source was, read the posts by it's author in this same thread: <3672966d.259173711@news.infoave.net> and <36740f55.355676963@news.infoave.net>. -- "Managing senior programmers is like herding cats." --Dave Platt ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 00:47:51 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 34 Message-ID: <36741086.1387998@news.vip.net> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <36759967.14681210@news.uunet.be> <3672f58e.3323328@news.vip.net> <367b9806.2876536@news.uunet.be> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.16 X-Trace: 913596169 A01OARAUVD410CCD1C usenet53.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed-east.supernews.com!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) wrote: >Also sprach genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) on Sun, 13 Dec 1998 >06:40:06 GMT to alt.folklore.computers: > >> lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) wrote: > >> >[so] It wouldn't surprize me if the Lisp version is a port from BASIC, >> >instead of the other way around. >> >> It would me. I had heard of Eliza years before micros. > >In that case I humbly sit down and acknowledge your authority :-) Hey, punk, get off that chair and let a geezer have it. >(I first played with a computer - not a micro - around the time >micro's became available). > >And as someone else pointed out in this thread, Eliza was born >around 1964, which means she's only 6 years younger than I am >(and a lot older than I expected her to be). And me, too. I thought it was early '70s or MAYBE late '60s. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Geezer In Training Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: Fluffy Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 14 Dec 1998 02:28:20 GMT Organization: If one may meow, all may meow. Message-ID: <751t44$sk4$1@meowhost.meow.invalid> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <74ubme$9u3$1@nnrp03.primenet.com> <36738613.31725630@news.newsguy.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 913603231 mail2news:10470 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!out2.ibm.net!meowhost.meow.invalid X-P-Meow: Meow Mail-Copies-To: never X-URL: http://members.tripod.com/~gerglery/ Originator: fluffy@meow.org (Fluffy) Lines: 27 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Paul Guertin wrote: > I always wondered how faithful to the original those BASIC versions > of Eliza were. I think a lot of them were written from scratch by > people who had read about Eliza's pattern-matching and substitution > algorithm in a magazine (most likely Creative Computing), but never > saw the original LISP source. The BASIC version that was posted here was pretty much the one from the old Creative Computing book -- possibly verbatim, since it contains some of the same typos I remember =) That in turn appears to be fairly closely derived from a lisp version included in a Peter Norvig book, _Artificial Intelligence Programming_. The BASIC version has been simplified to keep substitutions at the end of sentences, and the number of keywords is smaller (probably to save a bit of memory). In the Perl CPAN there is a module called Chatbot::Eliza which claims to be a faithful reproduction of Weizenbaum's original. I don't know how closely it actually resembles the real thing, but it looks like a neat toy in its own right, with an interface for plugging in custom personalities that can even talk to one another. -- "FEAST!" --Alice ###### From: nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 14 Dec 1998 04:56:31 GMT Organization: PrImE NuT (602)864-1005 <--- <--- <--- Lines: 18 Message-ID: <7525pv$810$2@nnrp03.primenet.com> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74ubme$9u3$1@nnrp03.primenet.com> <36738613.31725630@news.newsguy.com> <751t44$sk4$1@meowhost.meow.invalid> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr02.primenet.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@globalcenter.net X-Posted-By: nickb@206.165.6.202 (nickb) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test58 (13 May 97) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.ecrc.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail In article <751t44$sk4$1@meowhost.meow.invalid>, Fluffy wrote: > >In the Perl CPAN there is a module called Chatbot::Eliza which claims >to be a faithful reproduction of Weizenbaum's original. I don't know >how closely it actually resembles the real thing, but it looks like a >neat toy in its own right, with an interface for plugging in custom >personalities that can even talk to one another. Talk to one another? That's a new one. Because most of the Eliza-type programs I've seen are pretty weak. I shudder to think what would happen if I set Emacs' doctor mode to talk to itself. -- Nick Bensema 98-KUPD Red Card #710563 UIN: 2135445 ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ###### From: meowing@banet.net (Fluffy) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 14 Dec 1998 05:31:21 GMT Organization: If one may meow, all may meow. Message-ID: <7527r9$tai$1@meowhost.meow.invalid> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74ubme$9u3$1@nnrp03.primenet.com> <36738613.31725630@news.newsguy.com> <751t44$sk4$1@meowhost.meow.invalid> <7525pv$810$2@nnrp03.primenet.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 913613508 mail2news:17201 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!out2.ibm.net!meowhost.meow.invalid X-P-Meow: Meow Mail-Copies-To: never X-URL: http://members.tripod.com/~gerglery/ X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.3-canlock UNIX) Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Nick S Bensema wrote: > Talk to one another? That's a new one. Because most of the > Eliza-type programs I've seen are pretty weak. I shudder to think > what would happen if I set Emacs' doctor mode to talk to itself. Here's a portion of a conversation between two perl Elizas running the stock personality. The tone is disturbingly familiar; I wonder, if I leave them running for a few days, whether one will start demanding that the other define "honorable"? {chomp} One: I'm not sure I understand you fully. Two: Is it because you are not sure you understand me fully that you came to me? One: What makes you think I am not sure me understand you fully that me came to you? Two: Do you enjoy being not sure you understand me fully that you came to me? One: Really, I came to you? Two: Perhaps in your fantasies we came to each other. One: Really, my fantasies we came to each other? Two: Your fantasies we came to each other? One: Are you worried about someone else's fantasies we came to each other? Two: Perhaps I am worried about someone else's fantasies we came to each other in your fantasies. One: Why are you concerned over my fantasies? Two: Does that suggest anything else which belongs to you? One: Oh, I? Two: Why do you say you? {chomp} ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36738613.31725630@news.newsguy.com> <751t44$sk4$1@meowhost.meow.invalid> <7525pv$810$2@nnrp03.primenet.com> X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test67 (15 July 1998) From: cmikk@tig.oss.uswest.net (Chris Mikkelson) NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.147.85.37 Message-ID: <36752607.0@news2.uswest.net> Date: 14 Dec 1998 08:51:51 +0600 X-Trace: 14 Dec 1998 08:51:51 +0600, 204.147.85.37 Lines: 8 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@uswest.net. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!Supernews73!supernews.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.uswest.net!news1.uswest.net!not-for-mail In article <7525pv$810$2@nnrp03.primenet.com>, >Talk to one another? That's a new one. Because most of the Eliza-type >programs I've seen are pretty weak. I shudder to think what would >happen if I set Emacs' doctor mode to talk to itself. Couldn't be much worse than 'M-x psychoanalyze-zippy' ;-) -Chris ###### From: mwilson@interlog.com (Mel Wilson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 14 Dec 1998 11:56:43 -0500 Organization: Interlog Internet Services -Voice (416) 975-2655 -Data 515-1414 Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <3672966d.259173711@news.infoave.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell1.interlog.com NNTP-Posting-Time: 14 Dec 1998 16:56:47 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newspeer1.nac.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.interlog.com!news.interlog.com!not-for-mail In article <3672966d.259173711@news.infoave.net>, bernie@fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) wrote: >I was working at BBN and had just joined the ACM and in the very first >issue of "Communications of the ACM" [March, 1965, I think it was] there >was an article about Eliza. The bibliography to Weizenbaum's _Computer Power and Human Reason_ gives J.Weizenbaum, "ELIZA - A Computer Program for the Study of Natural Language Communication Between Man and Machine", _Communications of the Association for Computing Machinery_, vol. 9, no. 1 (January 1965), pp 36-45. Regards. Mel. ###### From: Albert Ratzlaff Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:00:46 -0300 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3675362E.57439077@infonet.com.py> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <74ubme$9u3$1@nnrp03.primenet.com> <36738613.31725630@news.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-974.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!212.63.192.161.MISMATCH!newshub.bart.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.idt.net!news-a.ais.net!ais.net!pln-e!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Paul Guertin wrote: > > I always wondered how faithful to the original those BASIC versions > of Eliza were. I think a lot of them were written from scratch by > people who had read about Eliza's pattern-matching and substitution > algorithm in a magazine (most likely Creative Computing), but never > saw the original LISP source. > The BASIC version posted last week does not recognize bad language (swearing). The EMACS version does (I found it looking at the source code). Regards Albert Ratzlaff ###### From: Duane Hentrich Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:52:20 -0800 Organization: DHL Systems, Inc. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <36758894.921C2366@systems.dhl.com> References: <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74vegb$vvs$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.41.203.136 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/778) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news-feed1.eu.concert.net!btnet-peer!btnet!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!ams.news.uu.net!uunet!in4.uu.net!not-for-mail If Eliza and Parry interest you, I suggest rambling over to http://www.loebner.net/Prizef/loebner-prize.html. The Loebner Prize Competition is a formal Turing Test competition. And, as you can see below, Mr. Weintraub has won it several times. 1991 Joseph Weintraub , Thinking Systems Software 1992 Joseph Weintraub, Thinking Systems Software 1993 Joseph Weintraub, Thinking Systems Software 1994 Thomas Whalen , Government of Canada Communications Research Center 1995 Joseph Weintraub, Thinking Systems Software 1996 Jason Hutchens Centre for Intelligent Information Processing, University of Western Australia 1997 David Levy, Intelligent Research Ltd. 1998 Robby Garner It's a great site with links to various competitors and a surprizing bunch of source. obEliza(bogus): Is forming cysts something you want to do?? -- Hypertext isn't what it's marked up to be. | dhentric@systems.dhl.com ###### From: boebert@swcp.com (William E. Boebert) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 14 Dec 1998 17:43:49 GMT Organization: Southwest Cyberport Lines: 13 Message-ID: <753iol$qf1$1@sloth.swcp.com> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: llama.swcp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.102.31.251!news.cmc.net!feeder.swcp.com!sloth.swcp.com!boebert Alexander Viro (viro@vernier.math.psu.edu) wrote: : Dunno about BASIC, but if LISP with healthy dose of -10 assembler is OK for : you - look at AI Attic. I never heard about Eliza in BASIC, BTW. IIRC, the Apple II version was in BASIC. A real hoot when you piped the screen output through the Votrax voice synthesizer card, which sounded exactly like The Coneheads. Earl ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: engebret@sg1.cr.usgs.gov (Chris Engebretson) Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry X-Nntp-Posting-Host: sg1.cr.usgs.gov Message-ID: Sender: news@igsrsparc2.er.usgs.gov (Janet Walz (GD) x6739) Reply-To: engebret@sg1.cr.usgs.gov Organization: Raytheon Systems Company X-Newsreader: xrn 9.01 References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <753iol$qf1$1@sloth.swcp.com> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:54:15 GMT Lines: 31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!news1.radix.net!news.er.usgs.gov!sg1.cr.usgs.gov!engebret In article <753iol$qf1$1@sloth.swcp.com>, boebert@swcp.com (William E. Boebert) writes: |> Alexander Viro (viro@vernier.math.psu.edu) wrote: |> |> : Dunno about BASIC, but if LISP with healthy dose of -10 |> : assembler is OK for you - look at AI Attic. I never heard |> : about Eliza in BASIC, BTW. |> |> IIRC, the Apple II version was in BASIC. A real hoot when you |> piped the screen output through the Votrax voice synthesizer |> card, which sounded exactly like The Coneheads. There were a few Eliza-like programs for the Apple II in BASIC. I remember one, which I believe was called FREUD, which featured a lo-res color rendition of Sigmund himself. His eyebrows would wiggle as he was "thinking" of replies to your questions/comments. The functionality and vocabulary were basically a subset of those found in the original Eliza (pretty much par for the course for microcomputer BASIC versions of the day.) I don't remember where FREUD came from. I'm fairly certain that it didn't come from Creative Computing, but I could be wrong. Regards, -- Chris Engebretson - Raytheon Systems Company | Ph#: (605)594-6829 USGS EROS Data Center, Sioux Falls, SD 57198 | Fax: (605)594-6940 http://edcwww.cr.usgs.gov/ mailto:engebret@sg1.cr.usgs.gov Opinions are *not* those of Raytheon Systems Company or the USGS. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:59:42 +0100 Message-ID: From: peterk@combo.ganesha.com (Dr. Peter Kittel) Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Reply-To: peterk @ combo.ganesha.com References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <74ubme$9u3$1@nnrp03.primenet.com> <36738613.31725630@news.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: rn7.bas Lines: 28 Organization: Private Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!EU.net!blackbush.xlink.net!ganesha.ganesha.com!shorter!combo.ganesha.com!peterk In article <36738613.31725630@news.newsguy.com> pg@sff.net (Paul Guertin) writes: >On 12 Dec 1998 18:12:30 GMT, nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) >> >> Just about every version of Eliza I ever saw for the C64 and Atari was >> in BASIC. Sure. >I always wondered how faithful to the original those BASIC versions >of Eliza were. I think a lot of them were written from scratch by >people who had read about Eliza's pattern-matching and substitution >algorithm in a magazine (most likely Creative Computing), but never >saw the original LISP source. May well be. I saw the first Eliza program as a Basic listing in a computer magazine and typed it in myself into our PET 2001. It even took some conversion work, as the printed source used the INSTR() function heavily, which did not exist in the PET Basic, so I had to do that by some additional lines of code. It was coded straightforward, easily understandable how it worked. Yet it did have limitations: IIRC it could only replace sentence parts at the end or at the start and not inbetween. You could see some provisions already in place also for this, but not completely implemented. Perhaps it was a question of memory size on that 8 K PET with 7 KB free :-). -- Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail: Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ peterk @ combo.ganesha.com ###### From: bernie@fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:48:19 GMT Organization: Fantasy Farm Fibers Lines: 24 Message-ID: <3679a255.27363016@news.infoave.net> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <3672966d.259173711@news.infoave.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: pem05-19.swva.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.infoave.net 913679047 20717 208.140.224.83 (14 Dec 1998 23:44:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news3.infoave.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 1998 23:44:07 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news-pen-3.sprintlink.net!news-in-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news3.infoave.net!news.infoave.net!not-for-mail mwilson@interlog.com (Mel Wilson) wrote: } In article <3672966d.259173711@news.infoave.net>, } bernie@fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) wrote: } >I was working at BBN and had just joined the ACM and in the very first } >issue of "Communications of the ACM" [March, 1965, I think it was] there } >was an article about Eliza. } } The bibliography to Weizenbaum's _Computer Power and Human Reason_ } gives } } J.Weizenbaum, "ELIZA - A Computer Program for the Study of } Natural Language Communication Between Man and Machine", } _Communications of the Association for Computing Machinery_, } vol. 9, no. 1 (January 1965), pp 36-45. Hey, that's no so bad: after 30+ years I only misremembered by two months...:o) /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- ###### From: Duane Hentrich Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:13:04 -0800 Organization: DHL Systems, Inc. Message-ID: <3676D0E0.64F6289A@systems.dhl.com> References: <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74vegb$vvs$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <36758894.921C2366@systems.dhl.com> <756343$45d5@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.41.203.136 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/778) Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newshub.bart.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer!btnet!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!ams.news.uu.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!not-for-mail Tom Harrington wrote: > > Duane Hentrich (dhentric@systems.dhl.com) wrote: > : If Eliza and Parry interest you, I suggest rambling over to > : http://www.loebner.net/Prizef/loebner-prize.html. > > : The Loebner Prize Competition is a formal Turing Test competition. > : And, as you can see below, Mr. Weintraub has won it several times. > > : 1991 Joseph Weintraub , Thinking Systems Software > > > Yes, but Eliza was originally written by Joseph _Weizenbaum_. Well, they both start with W don't they? ;^) It's the kind of mistake that an AI will have to be able to make, if it truly emulates us humans. Thanks for catching that. BTW, wasn't the first version of the program we call Eliza called DOCTOR? (the question comes from a wispy, fog-like part of my memory) Duane -- Hypertext isn't what it's marked up to be. | dhentric@systems.dhl.com ###### From: tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 15 Dec 1998 16:35:15 GMT Organization: Mechanist Industries Lines: 21 Message-ID: <756343$45d5@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> References: <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74vegb$vvs$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <36758894.921C2366@systems.dhl.com> Reply-To: tph@rmi.net NNTP-Posting-Host: cs0053.eld.ford.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!jobone!dailyplanet.srl.ford.com!eccws1.dearborn.ford.com!longhorn!tph Duane Hentrich (dhentric@systems.dhl.com) wrote: : If Eliza and Parry interest you, I suggest rambling over to : http://www.loebner.net/Prizef/loebner-prize.html. : The Loebner Prize Competition is a formal Turing Test competition. : And, as you can see below, Mr. Weintraub has won it several times. : 1991 Joseph Weintraub , Thinking Systems Software Yes, but Eliza was originally written by Joseph _Weizenbaum_. I once wrote a Perl script that imitated a rather bizarre net-personality. I'm going to have to introduce it to Chatbot::Eliza and see what develops... -- Tom Harrington --------- tph@rmii.com -------- http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph "Moses parted the red sea. Oppenheimer split the atom. But "Bob" cut the crap." -Rev. Steve Antczak, Revelation X: The "Bob" Apocryphon Cookie's Revenge: ftp://ftp.rmi.net/pub2/tph/cookie/cookies-revenge.sit.hqx ###### From: john@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (John "West" McKenna) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 15 Dec 1998 18:20:42 +0800 Organization: The University of Western Australia Lines: 10 Message-ID: <755d5q$2d6$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <36759967.14681210@news.uunet.be> <3672f58e.3323328@news.vip.net> <367b9806.2876536@news.uunet.be> NNTP-Posting-Host: mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #118 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!139.130.250.2!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.uwa.edu.au!not-for-mail lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) writes: >And as someone else pointed out in this thread, Eliza was born >around 1964, which means she's only 6 years younger than I am >(and a lot older than I expected her to be). You're forgetting John's Observation of Computing: everything was invented in the 60s. John West ###### From: jnickelsen@acm.org (Juergen Nickelsen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:37:59 +0100 Organization: [Posted via] Interactive Networx Lines: 9 Message-ID: <1dk33ro.uevvnaekrpc8N@n32-87.berlin.snafu.de> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <36759967.14681210@news.uunet.be> <3672f58e.3323328@news.vip.net> <367b9806.2876536@news.uunet.be> <755d5q$2d6$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: n32-87.berlin.snafu.de User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4b4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wuff.mayn.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!jnickelsen John "West" McKenna wrote: > You're forgetting John's Observation of Computing: everything was > invented in the 60s. Which John would that be, John? -- Juergen Nickelsen ###### From: jnickelsen@acm.org (Juergen Nickelsen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:38:00 +0100 Organization: [Posted via] Interactive Networx Lines: 9 Message-ID: <1dk344k.1yd5b80z2hqfoN@n32-87.berlin.snafu.de> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <3672966d.259173711@news.infoave.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: n32-87.berlin.snafu.de User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4b4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.pop.de!newsfeed.tli.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!jnickelsen Eric Fischer wrote: > I think the original Eliza was written using SLIP (Weizenbaum's > list-processing subroutine library for Fortran) Wasn't that called FLPL (FORTRAN List Processing Language)? -- Juergen Nickelsen ###### From: mwilson@interlog.com (Mel Wilson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 16 Dec 1998 11:00:24 -0500 Organization: Interlog Internet Services -Voice (416) 975-2655 -Data 515-1414 Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74vegb$vvs$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <36758894.921C2366@systems.dhl.com> <756343$45d5@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <3676D0E0.64F6289A@systems.dhl.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell1.interlog.com NNTP-Posting-Time: 16 Dec 1998 16:00:25 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!212.63.192.161.MISMATCH!newshub.bart.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!newsfeed.interlog.com!news.interlog.com!not-for-mail In article <3676D0E0.64F6289A@systems.dhl.com>, Duane Hentrich wrote: > [ ... ] BTW, wasn't the first version of the program >we call Eliza called DOCTOR? (the question comes from a wispy, >fog-like part of my memory) Apparently ELIZA accepted scripts. The script that simulated a non-directive psychotherapist turned ELIZA into DOCTOR. This is from _Computing Power and Human Reason_, by Joseph Weizenbaum, published by Freeman, 1976. ISBN 0-7167-0463-3 . Mainly an argument about the limits of A.I. vs. people's expectations. Interesting. Regards. Mel. ###### From: Peter N. M. Hansteen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 17 Dec 1998 11:10:58 +0100 Organization: Datadokumentasjon A/S Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <74ubme$9u3$1@nnrp03.primenet.com> <36738613.31725630@news.newsguy.com> <3675362E.57439077@infonet.com.py> NNTP-Posting-Host: gw.datadok.no Original-Sender: peter@datadok.no X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newshub.bart.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!uninett.no!torget.bgnett.no!delilah.datadok.no!nobody Albert Ratzlaff writes: > The BASIC version posted last week does not recognize bad language > (swearing). The EMACS version does (I found it looking at the source > code). For a while it didn't, due to the CDA (restricting the electronic transfer of swear words). there was a gnu.announce post about it from RMS. -- Peter N. M. Hansteen peter@datadok.no Datadokumentasjon A/S, Bredsgaarden 2, N-5003 Bergen, Norway Tel: +47 55 32 08 02 Fax: +47 55 32 14 95 ###### From: bernie@fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:31:57 GMT Organization: Fantasy Farm Fibers Lines: 22 Message-ID: <36790731.249824722@news.infoave.net> References: <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74vegb$vvs$1@flood.weeg.uiowa.edu> <36758894.921C2366@systems.dhl.com> <756343$45d5@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <3676D0E0.64F6289A@systems.dhl.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pem-26.swva.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.infoave.net 913901248 11784 208.140.224.138 (17 Dec 1998 13:27:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news3.infoave.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Dec 1998 13:27:28 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news3.infoave.net!news.infoave.net!not-for-mail mwilson@interlog.com (Mel Wilson) wrote: } In article <3676D0E0.64F6289A@systems.dhl.com>, } Duane Hentrich wrote: } > [ ... ] BTW, wasn't the first version of the program } >we call Eliza called DOCTOR? (the question comes from a wispy, } >fog-like part of my memory) } } Apparently ELIZA accepted scripts. The script that simulated a } non-directive psychotherapist turned ELIZA into DOCTOR. No. The first version of "doctor" used the exact same script that "eliza" did [I just copied it, basically verbatim, from the CACM article], at least at that moment. After that, of course, the two scripts diverged as both the MIT and the BBN/ARPAnet eliza/doctor communities changed this and that, added new this's and that's to it. /Bernie\ -- Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA --> Too many people, too few sheep <-- ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: eric@fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry X-Nntp-Posting-Host: fudge.uchicago.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) X-Newsposter: Pnews 4.0-test51 (15 Jan 97) Organization: The University of Chicago References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <3672966d.259173711@news.infoave.net> <1dk344k.1yd5b80z2hqfoN@n32-87.berlin.snafu.de> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:26:47 GMT Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!128.174.5.49!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uchinews!not-for-mail Juergen Nickelsen wrote: > > I think the original Eliza was written using SLIP (Weizenbaum's > > list-processing subroutine library for Fortran) > > Wasn't that called FLPL (FORTRAN List Processing Language)? I just went over to the library to get a copy of the original Eliza article (CACM, vol. 9, no. 1, January 1966, pp. 36-45), which says, ELIZA is a program which makes natural language conversation with a computer possible. Its present implementation is on the MAC time-sharing system at MIT. It is written in MAD-Slip [4] for the IBM 7094. Its name was chosen to emphasize that it may be incrementally improved by its users, since its language abilities may be continually improved by a "teacher." Like the Eliza of Pygmalion fame, it can be made to appear even more civilized, the relation of appearance to reality, however, remaining in the domain of the playwright. So ignore what I said about Fortran and substitute MAD instead. eric ###### From: Dave Daniels Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:24:40 GMT Organization: ArgoNet, but does not reflect its views Lines: 21 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <755d5q$2d6$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Reply-To: Dave Daniels NNTP-Posting-Host: userj181.uk.uudial.com X-Newsreader: NewsAgent 0.84 for RISC OS Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!argonet.co.uk!argbq79 In article <755d5q$2d6$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>, john@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au (John "West" McKenna) wrote: > You're forgetting John's Observation of Computing: everything was > invented in the 60s. All that matters now is who is rewriting history. Dave -- ANTISPAM: Please note that the email address above is false. My correct address is: dave_danielsargonetcouk Please replace the and s with @ and . respectively when replying - Thanks! ###### From: nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 19 Dec 1998 00:26:01 GMT Organization: PrImE NuT (602)864-1005 <--- <--- <--- Lines: 21 Message-ID: <75erqp$eoh$3@nnrp02.primenet.com> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <753iol$qf1$1@sloth.swcp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr02.primenet.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@globalcenter.net X-Posted-By: nickb@206.165.6.202 (nickb) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test58 (13 May 97) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.165.3.11!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail In article , Chris Engebretson wrote: > >There were a few Eliza-like programs for the Apple II in BASIC. >I remember one, which I believe was called FREUD, which featured >a lo-res color rendition of Sigmund himself. His eyebrows would >wiggle as he was "thinking" of replies to your questions/comments. >The functionality and vocabulary were basically a subset of those >found in the original Eliza (pretty much par for the course for >microcomputer BASIC versions of the day.) One BBS I used to call replaced its "Chat with Sysop" function with an Eliza program. There was a fixed 1/3 second delay between characters it typed back at you, but some people still thought it was a real person who was messing with their heads. -- Nick Bensema 98-KUPD Red Card #710563 UIN: 2135445 ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ###### From: pierson@gone.enet.dec.com (dave pierson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 19 DEC 98 16:26:01 Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: <75h5v2$c6m$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <755d5q$2d6$1@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: gone.enet.dec.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.stanford.edu!su-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news1.digital.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!gone.enet.dec.com!pierson A Variant Eliza A long time ago, in a computer copmpnay far far away.... Word went around that a new artifical intellignece program was running in the ***-* Engineering Lab. One was encouraged to try it and see if it passed the Turing (?) Test: Could one tell if it was a computer or a person. Conversation was by ASR33 Teletype (I TOLD you it twas a long Time Ago...). The results were markedly human like, with a distinct flavoring of humor. Which Turned Out to be because L**** N**** had wired two ASR 33 back to back (as they are normally used...) and was replying himself.... Who's Law is it? Any Sufficiently Advanced Technology is indistinguishable from a Rigged Demo. thanks dave pierson |the facts, as accurately as i can manage, Compaq Computer Corporation |the opinions, my own. 334 South St | Shrewsbury, Mass USA pierson@gone.enet.dec.com "He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing." A J Raffles "....the net of a million lies...." Vernor Vinge ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: dpbsmith@world.std.com (Daniel P. B. Smith) Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:01:00 GMT References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <1dk344k.1yd5b80z2hqfoN@n32-87.berlin.snafu.de> Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!newsfeed.fast.net!uunet!in4.uu.net!world!dpbsmith In article , Eric Fischer wrote: >Juergen Nickelsen wrote: > >> > I think the original Eliza was written using SLIP (Weizenbaum's >> > list-processing subroutine library for Fortran) SLIP existed in more than one flavor. Incidentally, I never was able to understand why, but SLIP was _never_ described as a "subroutine library." It was described as an "embedded language." Whatever that was supposed to mean. -- Daniel P. B. Smith dpbsmith@world.std.com ###### From: cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Eliza and Parry Date: 3 Jan 1999 19:40:23 GMT Organization: Honest Chris' Sysadmin Emporium Message-ID: <76oh37$7kl$2@teabag.demon.co.uk> References: <19981206215549.02571.00003159@ng114.aol.com> <36704D17.FC051734@plano.net> <74rao1$srl$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu> <3671F466.D05C1D7B@goldrush.com> <74tcsg$oqm@vernier.math.psu.edu> <36759967.14681210@news.uunet.be> <3672f58e.3323328@news.vip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 915393653 nnrp-01:8570 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.0 Lines: 10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail In article <3672f58e.3323328@news.vip.net>, genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: >>It wouldn't surprize me if the Lisp version is a port from BASIC, >>instead of the other way around. > > It would me. I had heard of Eliza years before micros. FWIW, I first encountered Eliza on a VAX, written in VAXbasic. Chris.