From: "Frank Jaerschky" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Missing Megabyte Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:31:37 +1300 Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Lines: 4 Message-ID: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: p295.nzwide.ihug.co.nz X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? ###### Message-ID: <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.0 DEC 3000 Model 300L) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:36:15 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.232.144.27 X-Trace: audrey2.cais.com 911879112 198.232.144.27 (Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:45:12 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:45:12 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!news-in-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!199.0.216.204.MISMATCH!audrey2.cais.com!not-for-mail skritch@home.com wrote: > > "Frank Jaerschky" writes: > > > I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but > > what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? > > The 0's are worn out, and aren't flipping to 1's anymore. You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the capital letter "O" and the lowercase letter "l"... Tim. (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) ###### From: joet@jtcs.net (joet) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:40:11 -0500 Organization: jtcs Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-270.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 In article <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com>, skritch@home.com says... > "Frank Jaerschky" writes: > > > I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but > > what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? > > The 0's are worn out, and aren't flipping to 1's anymore. You can > buy new memory, or just go to CompUSA and tell 'em you need replacement 0's. WARNING: If you take them to CompUSA (or any retail "vendor" for that matter), they'll act like they don't know what you're talking about. I bet that they'll refuse to give you satisfaction and if you persist loud and long enough they might even call the police. With the pro-business laws today, there's probably not a thing anyone short of Johnnie Cochran can do about it. Let us know how it works out if you decide to take "them" on. -joet ###### Sender: skritch@ Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> From: skritch@home.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> Organization: TINO Lines: 8 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 03:06:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.1.127.47 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:06:44 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.best.com!news2.best.com!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.sfba.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail "Frank Jaerschky" writes: > I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but > what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? The 0's are worn out, and aren't flipping to 1's anymore. You can buy new memory, or just go to CompUSA and tell 'em you need replacement 0's. ###### From: rogblake3@hot4mail.com (Roger Blake) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: 24 Nov 1998 03:12:59 GMT Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: unix3.netaxs.com X-No-Archive: Yes X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!newshog.newsread.com!netaxs.newsread.com!rogblake3 On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 03:06:44 GMT, skritch@home.com wrote: >The 0's are worn out, and aren't flipping to 1's anymore. You can Sometimes they aren't completely worn out, just stiff from lack of lubrication. Just take your SIMMs and/or DIMMs out and soak them in a good pentrating oil overnight. Then wipe off the excess and reinstall. That'll frequently get the stuck 0's working again. -- Roger Blake (remove numbers from return address for e-mail) ###### Sender: skritch@ Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> From: skritch@home.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> Organization: TINO Lines: 18 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 04:29:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.1.127.47 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:29:21 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.sfba.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Tim Shoppa writes: > skritch@home.com wrote: > > > > "Frank Jaerschky" writes: > > > > > I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but > > > what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? > > > > The 0's are worn out, and aren't flipping to 1's anymore. > > You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the > capital letter "O" and the lowercase letter "l"... Luxury. Back in my day, all we had were 0's. We painted them different colors to tell them apart. Once this started bogging the processes down, we switched to naming them. I still miss Bob. ###### From: jupiter@mastnet.net (jupiter) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:35:04 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 18 Message-ID: <365c44d4.22443745@news.mastnet.net> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> Reply-To: jupiter@mastnet.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.66.213.46 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 911885633 EFJAUEKCMD52ECE42C usenet53.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!SupernewsUK!newsfeed-east.supernews.com!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Maybe a virus? Of course, if you're showing 127MB in the POST (power-on self test), I don't know of any virus that could load into memory that early in the startup sequence, so that's probably not it. There was (is?) a virus that made the standard DOS 640KB of low memory be reported as 639KB. "Frank Jaerschky" wrote: >>I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but >>what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? >> -- Greg jupiter@mastnet.net http://www.mastnet.net/~jupiter ###### From: Eric Levenez Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: 24 Nov 1998 06:28:20 GMT Organization: Tasha Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: <73djm4$jms$2@front5.grolier.fr> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-114-71.velizy.club-internet.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: front5.grolier.fr 911888900 20188 194.158.114.71 (24 Nov 1998 06:28:20 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Nov 1998 06:28:20 GMT X-Face: (X#mE%m~xkAcHidWL",*K0}^dSr;O@^GQMld)TyxVIy%v:.1m4(W%CJP.f+${`En!#Jiy6+do!U$l%RTtl9Ag_cZc[LLljpp_Mdil{A%xC4l9.!.W+`-}9vFjrxr X-Newsreader: Alexandra.app (Version 0.82) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!isdnet!grolier!club-internet!not-for-mail "Frank Jaerschky" wrote: > I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but > what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? If you are on a PC machine, the first 1MB is special (system + I/O), so it is normal. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- Éric Lévénez "Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas" mailto:levenez@club-internet.fr Publius Vergilius Maro, (NeXTMail, MIME) Georgica, II-489 -------------------------------------------------------------------- "We are Microsoft. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile." ###### Message-ID: <365AEE69.79D76F3C@jkmicro.com> From: Jim Stewart Organization: http://www.jkmicro.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:35:37 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.150.253.142 X-Trace: news3.ispnews.com 911928997 168.150.253.142 (Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:36:37 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:36:37 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.ispnews.com!news3.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Gene Wirchenko wrote: > > Tim Shoppa wrote: > > >skritch@home.com wrote: > >> > >> "Frank Jaerschky" writes: > >> > >> > I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but > >> > what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? > >> > >> The 0's are worn out, and aren't flipping to 1's anymore. > > > >You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the > >capital letter "O" and the lowercase letter "l"... > > You must have a mean isalpha() routine. This thread reminds me of a Dvorak quote that went something like this.. "He sat down at the computer with the easy confidence of a man that knew why 1k didn't exactly equal 1000." Jim ###### Message-ID: <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:55:27 -0500 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 24 Nov 1998 09:56:30 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.axxsys.net!newsfeed.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 skritch@home.com wrote: > > Tim Shoppa writes: > > > You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the capital letter "O" and > > the lowercase letter "l"... > > Luxury. Back in my day, all we had were 0's. We painted them > different colors to tell them apart. Once this started bogging the > processes down, we switched to naming them. I still miss Bob. You had paint? You were lucky. We had to keep them all in a big cardboard box ('cause memory hadn't been invented yet), and we couldn't tell them apart at all. We had to slave seventeen hours each day, hand cranking the CPU. Then we had to clean the box, walk home twelve miles through the snow, and when we got there, our mum and dad would beat us, and send us to bed without any supper. ###### From: "Jack Peacock" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:31:26 -0800 Organization: Simco Lines: 25 Message-ID: <73etq3$bqp$1@supernews.com> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.168.124.145 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 911932035 TWNY2XU9G7C91CFA8C usenet54.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Frank Jaerschky wrote in message <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz>... >I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but >what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? > The extra 1MB is in your bit bucket. When memory is erased and reclaimed for new programs, the bits are normally recycled (this is called garbage collection) through a bit bucket, part of the support hardware on your motherboard. If there are too many bits in use sometimes the extra bits will stick inside the bit bucket. This is a common problem with SDRAM (the S refers to Static, meaning the bits can develop a static charge and cling to the bit bucket). To recover this memory, look for the bit bucket IC on your motherboard chip set. Press down on it several times to squeeze out the remaining bits and then your memory should come back. Static cling is usually cured by running a humidifier next to your computer. If you don't have one, try setting out pails of water all over the room, with fans pushing air over the tops of the pails. Jack Peacock ###### From: TheCentralScrutinizer.96@pobox.com () Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: 24 Nov 1998 16:43:13 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> Reply-To: TheCentralScrutinizer.96@pobox.com NNTP-Posting-Host: edison.chisp.net X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.3.2 UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!212.63.192.161.MISMATCH!newshub.bart.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed.direct.ca!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!TheCentralScrutinizer.96 On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 15:31:37 +1300, Frank Jaerschky wrote: >I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but >what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? Check your bitbucket. It has to be emptied at least once a year or it'll start leaking 0's and 1's all over the place and that can get to be one slippery mess! ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:10:34 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 24 Message-ID: <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.64 X-Trace: 911927285 A01OARAUVD440CCD1C usenet57.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Tim Shoppa wrote: >skritch@home.com wrote: >> >> "Frank Jaerschky" writes: >> >> > I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but >> > what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? >> >> The 0's are worn out, and aren't flipping to 1's anymore. > >You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the >capital letter "O" and the lowercase letter "l"... You must have a mean isalpha() routine. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: "Andrew Cadley" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:09:33 -0000 Organization: University of East Anglia, Norwich, Norfolk, NR47TJ, UK Lines: 29 Message-ID: <73ess2$njj@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: oak6d.vlg1.uea.ac.uk X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2120.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!server1.netnews.ja.net!cpca3.uea.ac.uk!news Foobar T. Clown wrote in message <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del>... :skritch@home.com wrote: :> :> Tim Shoppa writes: :> :> > You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the capital letter "O" and :> > the lowercase letter "l"... :> Luxury. Back in my day, all we had were 0's. We painted them :> different colors to tell them apart. Once this started bogging the :> processes down, we switched to naming them. I still miss Bob. :You had paint? You were lucky. We had to keep them all in a big :cardboard box ('cause memory hadn't been invented yet), and we couldn't :tell them apart at all. We had to slave seventeen hours each day, hand :cranking the CPU. Then we had to clean the box, walk home twelve miles :through the snow, and when we got there, our mum and dad would beat us, :and send us to bed without any supper. Well we had memory. Our own memory. We were forced to remember and shout them into a big microphone in order. After each bit had been correctly recognised, it was necessary to sit and wait for *exactly* one hour before shouting the next one. Even a minor interruption in this schedule would confuse the humble machine and we'd all have to start again. AndyC ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter) Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Message-ID: Sender: news@cwi.nl (The Daily Dross) NNTP-Posting-Host: heilbot.cwi.nl Organization: CWI, Amsterdam References: <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:04:44 GMT Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!sun4nl!cwi.nl!dik In article <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> genew@vip.net writes: > Tim Shoppa wrote: > >skritch@home.com wrote: > >> The 0's are worn out, and aren't flipping to 1's anymore. > > > >You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the > >capital letter "O" and the lowercase letter "l"... > > You must have a mean isalpha() routine. No, just an old Bull computer where 0 and O shared the same code (as did 1 and I). -- dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131 home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/ ###### Message-ID: <365B697A.8BC2CA09@loudoun.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:20:42 -0500 From: Debbie Fetter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.188.47.109 X-Trace: 24 Nov 1998 21:21:40 -0500, 204.188.47.109 Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!204.71.1.51!spamkiller2.cwix.com!pull-feed.cwix.com!vangogh.loudoun.com!204.188.47.109 skritch@home.com wrote: > Tim Shoppa writes: > > > skritch@home.com wrote: > > > > > > "Frank Jaerschky" writes: > > > > > > > I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but > > > > what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? > > > > > > The 0's are worn out, and aren't flipping to 1's anymore. > > > > You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the > > capital letter "O" and the lowercase letter "l"... > > Luxury. Back in my day, all we had were 0's. We painted them different > colors to tell them apart. Once this started bogging the processes down, > we switched to naming them. I still miss Bob. Modern memory has '0' with all the electronic signals high (current flowing). A '1' is with the signals off (no current). This is because, working the statistics, there are more '1's than '0's (from some obscure research, done, I believe, at IBM (back when IBM did that kind of stuff)) at any one point in time in all of a system's memory. So, the '0's are not worn out -- you just need a new B battery. Eh? Speak up. ###### From: triso@remove-me.inasec.ca (Tris Orendorff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:06:59 GMT Organization: UUNET Canada News Transport Lines: 18 Message-ID: <73flbl$7j7$1@demon.uunet.ca> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.47.93.91 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!news1.cal.metronet.ca!news.uunet.ca!tris In article <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz>, "Frank Jaerschky" wrote: > I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but > what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? That's the boys from Redmond again. If you don't pay for it, something's going to be broken. Ya Know. Sincerely, Tris Orendorff ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS d++ s a C+ UC++++ P+ L E- W+ N++ o- K++ w+ O+ M !V PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ !5 X- R- tv--- b++ DI++ D+ G+ e+ h---- r+++ y+ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ ###### Sender: skritch@ Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365B697A.8BC2CA09@loudoun.com> From: skritch@home.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <86ww4kcwmw.fsf@home.com> Organization: TINO Lines: 42 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:50:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.1.127.47 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:50:40 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!isdnet!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.sfba.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Debbie Fetter writes: > skritch@home.com wrote: > > > Tim Shoppa writes: > > > > > skritch@home.com wrote: > > > > > > > > "Frank Jaerschky" writes: > > > > > > > > > I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but > > > > > what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? > > > > > > > > The 0's are worn out, and aren't flipping to 1's anymore. > > > > > > You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the > > > capital letter "O" and the lowercase letter "l"... > > > > Luxury. Back in my day, all we had were 0's. We painted them different > > colors to tell them apart. Once this started bogging the processes down, > > we switched to naming them. I still miss Bob. > > Modern memory has '0' with all the electronic signals high (current flowing). > A '1' is with the signals off (no current). This is because, working the statistics, > > there are more '1's than '0's (from some obscure research, done, I believe, at > IBM (back when IBM did that kind of stuff)) at any one point in time in all of > a system's memory. > So, the '0's are not worn out -- you just need a new B battery. > > Eh? Speak up. Working from that, we'd have to assume that by removing all current to the memory and applying some statistical noise-removal algorithms, we could recover anything we'd try to save. Someone should call the various watchdog groups. There's a huge potential for piracy of all existing and future software here. ###### Message-ID: <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:00:00 -0500 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 25 Nov 1998 10:01:05 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 Ferg wrote: > Humour has been deemed unproductive [...] Anybody found illegally > producing humour will be dealt with severely. Speaking of which, all this talk about bits and bytes is well and good, but back in the *REAL* old days, computers used roman numerals. You had to do all your data entry on blocks of polished marble using a hammer and chisel, and when you wanted to run a job, you had to lug it all up to the top of the Acropolis along with an unblemished male ram, and submit it to the Oracle. You had to be lucky too, because back then, the computers weren't built with relays or vacuum tubes or anything reliable like that. Oh no! They used slaves. It was pretty much a fifty fifty proposition that one or two slaves would keel over from heat prostration during the middle of a run. You'd have to find them, and replace them, and do it all over again. And you know what? You try to tell it to kids these days, and they don't believe you. ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:33:12 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 32 Message-ID: <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <73flbl$7j7$1@demon.uunet.ca> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.68 X-Trace: 912011451 A01OARAUVD444CCD1C usenet52.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed-east.supernews.com!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail triso@remove-me.inasec.ca (Tris Orendorff) wrote: >In article <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz>, "Frank Jaerschky" wrote: >> I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big deal, but >> what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? > >That's the boys from Redmond again. If you don't pay for it, something's >going to be broken. Ya Know. True enough. Unfortunately, even if you do pay for it, something's going to be broken. It's not that I expect their software to be perfect, but they have a nasty habit of not addressing many things until the next version. The next version often has bigger changes than you'd like. For example, Visual FoxPro 3 was succeeded by VFP 5 (4 didn't exist.) and in order to run VFP 5 on a Win 3.x system, you have to... Well, actually, you can't. VFP 5 requires a 32-bit OS. This is not the best way of dealing with a bug. They also did it with the jump from FoxPro 2.x to Visual FoxPro 3: non-OOP to OOP. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: Ingvar Mattsson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers Date: 25 Nov 1998 16:51:26 +0100 Organization: Telia Internet Services Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: d2o61.telia.com X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ns.idasys.se X-Complaints-To: abuse@internet.telia.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!212.63.192.161.MISMATCH!newshub.bart.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newspost.telia.com!d2o61.telia.com!ns.idasys.se "Foobar T. Clown" writes: > Ferg wrote: > > Humour has been deemed unproductive [...] Anybody found illegally > > producing humour will be dealt with severely. > > Speaking of which, all this talk about bits and bytes is well and good, > but back in the *REAL* old days, computers used roman numerals. You had > to do all your data entry on blocks of polished marble using a hammer > and chisel, and when you wanted to run a job, you had to lug it all up > to the top of the Acropolis along with an unblemished male ram, and > submit it to the Oracle. > > You had to be lucky too, because back then, the computers weren't built > with relays or vacuum tubes or anything reliable like that. Oh no! > They used slaves. It was pretty much a fifty fifty proposition that one > or two slaves would keel over from heat prostration during the middle of > a run. You'd have to find them, and replace them, and do it all over > again. Oh? You didn't have the Advanced Option, using male slaves for 1 and female slaves to 0? Just string'em along and use a bit-slicing processor (slave handler) on the incoming data, accumulate them in cages and even let them produce more bits for you. Advanced it was, indeed. Worked quite well too, up until "humane rights" was claimed to be something applying to software too. No more crash-testing of new programs after that. //Ingvar (bit-paring would, at least, be interesting...) -- Sysadmin, disgruntled, unpolite. I don't speak for my employer nor do they speak for me. Accept this and life will be easier. ingvar@idasys.se ###### From: "Ferg" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:19:46 +1100 Organization: Dynamite Internet http://www.dynamite.com.au/ Lines: 88 Message-ID: <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: isp238.unl.can.dynamite.com.au X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed-in.aone.net.au!newshost.pcug.org.au!news.interact.net.au!news.dynamite.com.au!not-for-mail Foobar T. Clown wrote in message <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del>... >skritch@home.com wrote: >> >> Tim Shoppa writes: >> >> > You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the capital letter "O" and >> > the lowercase letter "l"... >> >> Luxury. Back in my day, all we had were 0's. We painted them >> different colors to tell them apart. Once this started bogging the >> processes down, we switched to naming them. I still miss Bob. > >You had paint? You were lucky. We had to keep them all in a big >cardboard box ('cause memory hadn't been invented yet), and we couldn't >tell them apart at all. We had to slave seventeen hours each day, hand >cranking the CPU. Then we had to clean the box, walk home twelve miles >through the snow, and when we got there, our mum and dad would beat us, >and send us to bed without any supper. This is what the user-support people are doing all day instead of fixing up people's computers - reminiscing about pre-technological humour. Humour has been deemed unproductive and humour rationalisation will shortly occur with all humour being outsourced to Rupert Murdoch to improve the efficiency dividend. Anybody found illegally producing humour will be dealt with severely. And now, that special something extra for the spammers: instantfacts@hotmail.com deal@supertour.com bob@cruiserbob.com StarrTapes@cmisinc.com carmc52@hotmail.com laffaday@laffaday.com ElectPD@earthlink.net motox70@hotmail.com news@pc4me.com seekinfo@swbell.net lndol@clark.net moi_n_toi@hotmail.com kitcar@hotmail.com BestCake@Webfisher.com john@buildsuccess.com tybr2004@hotmail.com ameriplan_usa@mailexcite.com dv2000@apexmail.com anisa@laffaday.com aberle@flash.net callbackstar@targetmails.com laff@laffaday.com eurov@globalserve.net ba555@cyberway.com.sg mail@fone-lock.com gain999@ibm.net fantaisie@iq.ca scubanewsltr@hargray.com opportunity22@juno.com davidy@bayview.net peterst@voicenet.com laura@psychic4all.com promote@simpledialup.com Y2K@Omni-Comm.com, inetweb@internetwebsitehosting.com wwings@autowings.nl ussainc@email.msn.com sales@remarkablesystems.com, inetweb@internetwebsitehosting.com wwings@autowings.nl ussainc@email.msn.com sales@remarkable-systems.com tcsaba@sienet.hu emailgrus@yahoo.com kbyv@bway.net lkjnntat@sienet.hu 57049590@bbn.com johnE@ezyweb.com.au bbfyb@somedomain.com bvyv@branch.net detective@sbinet.com newclassifieds@yahoo.com M4cra@Worldnet.att.net laffaday@mail.laffaday.com inform-me@iname.com ###### Reply-To: "Dennis J. Minette" From: "Dennis J. Minette" References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:14:34 -0500 Lines: 42 Organization: Minette Data Systems, Inc. X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers NNTP-Posting-Host: 1Cust155.tnt1.sarasota.fl.da.uu.net [153.37.162.155] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!207.68.152.14!upnetnews04!upnetnews05 Ferg wrote in message <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au>... > >Foobar T. Clown wrote in message <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del>... >>skritch@home.com wrote: >>> >>> Tim Shoppa writes: >>> >>> > You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the capital letter "O" and >>> > the lowercase letter "l"... >>> >>> Luxury. Back in my day, all we had were 0's. We painted them >>> different colors to tell them apart. Once this started bogging the >>> processes down, we switched to naming them. I still miss Bob. >> >>You had paint? You were lucky. We had to keep them all in a big >>cardboard box ('cause memory hadn't been invented yet), and we couldn't >>tell them apart at all. We had to slave seventeen hours each day, hand >>cranking the CPU. Then we had to clean the box, walk home twelve miles >>through the snow, and when we got there, our mum and dad would beat us, >>and send us to bed without any supper. > >This is what the user-support people are doing all day instead of fixing up >people's computers - reminiscing about pre-technological humour. > >Humour has been deemed unproductive and humour rationalisation will shortly >occur with all humour being outsourced to Rupert Murdoch to improve the >efficiency dividend. Anybody found illegally producing humour will be dealt >with severely. > >And now, that special something extra for the spammers: > << Snipped mucho SPAMMER email addresses, many of which I have unfortunately also seen show up in my in-mail box all too often>> That is a great idea - recycling spammer email addresses back into the spammer pool of potential targets by including them in a posting where they can be "harvested" by other spammers! ###### Message-ID: <365C9405.2020@gazonk.del> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:34:29 -0500 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <73flbl$7j7$1@demon.uunet.ca> <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net> <73hji5$l03@news.netcologne.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 25 Nov 1998 18:33:34 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 Juergen Nieveler wrote: > > Sorry if this thread drifts off-topic, but someday you would have to > migrate from 16 to 32bit, wouldnīt you? Itīs simply not possible to > do a slow migration (VFP 3.5 with 20 bits, VFP4 with 24bits etc.) Why on earth not? I've worked with computers that have 8-bit, 12-bit, 16-bit, 18-bit, 32-bit, 36-bit, and 64-bit data paths; Some of 'em had 20-bit, 24-bit, and 48-bit address busses; and I've heard of other, weirder numbers. If they'd started adding one bit per year in 1984, they'd reach 32 bits just in time to celebrate the millenium. It would be totally in character for Intel and MicroSoft to release a twenty six bit processor and operating system one year, only to obsolete them with the twenty seven bit versions the next year. Of course, MicroSoft would be two or three years late with each version, so it'd be more like 2024 before we saw a 32-bit version of windows. They'd probably make some egregious changes to the "C" programming language to deal with word sizes that were not multiples of the char size, but I'm sure it would be no worse than what they did with all the __far and __near pointers in "real mode" C. ###### From: "Juergen Nieveler" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:45:10 +0100 Organization: Netcologne GmbH Lines: 34 Message-ID: <73hji5$l03@news.netcologne.de> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <73flbl$7j7$1@demon.uunet.ca> <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dial9-193.netcologne.de X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!194.162.162.196!newsfeed.nacamar.de!fu-berlin.de!RRZ.Uni-Koeln.DE!news.netcologne.de!usenet Gene Wirchenko schrieb in Nachricht <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net>... > For example, Visual FoxPro 3 was succeeded by VFP 5 (4 didn't >exist.) and in order to run VFP 5 on a Win 3.x system, you have to... >Well, actually, you can't. VFP 5 requires a 32-bit OS. This is not >the best way of dealing with a bug. > Sorry if this thread drifts off-topic, but someday you would have to migrate from 16 to 32bit, wouldnīt you? Itīs simply not possible to do a slow migration (VFP 3.5 with 20 bits, VFP4 with 24bits etc.), itīs just like driving left or right... if you try to shift slowly from one to the other, there might be a crash :-) Juergen Nieveler -- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GCM/S d+ s:- a->? C++$>++++$ UHL--@ P- L+ E--- W-@ N++@ o? K? w++++$ O---($) !M V-- PS+ PE++ Y+>++ PGP++>+++ t+ 5++ X++ R* tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G>++++ e* h+ !r y? ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ PGP-Key available under www.netcologne.de/~nc-nievelju/ ###### From: alex*@*rockvax.rockefeller.edu (Alexandre Pechtchanski) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Organization: Rockefeller University Hospital (GCRC), New York Message-ID: <365f6ea3.170161326@Rockyd> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <73flbl$7j7$1@demon.uunet.ca> <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net> <73hji5$l03@news.netcologne.de> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 27 Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 20:57:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.85.24.56 X-Trace: rockyd.rockefeller.edu 912027435 129.85.24.56 (Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:57:15 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:57:15 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!rockyd.rockefeller.edu!not-for-mail On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 19:45:10 +0100, "Juergen Nieveler" wrote: [ Courtesy cc'ed through e-mail to the quoted author ] >Gene Wirchenko schrieb in Nachricht <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net>... > >> For example, Visual FoxPro 3 was succeeded by VFP 5 (4 didn't >>exist.) and in order to run VFP 5 on a Win 3.x system, you have to... >>Well, actually, you can't. VFP 5 requires a 32-bit OS. This is not >>the best way of dealing with a bug. >> > >Sorry if this thread drifts off-topic, but someday you would have to migrate >from 16 to 32bit, wouldnīt you? Itīs simply not possible to do a slow >migration (VFP 3.5 with 20 bits, VFP4 with 24bits etc.), itīs just like >driving left or right... > >if you try to shift slowly from one to the other, there might be a crash :-) If we are talking lame car analogies here, I have another one that better illustrates what Gene was talking about: "Oh, so your bike has bad transmission? OK, here's our new 18-wheeler that doesn't have this problem". [ When replying, remove *'s from address ] Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY ###### From: Mike Swaim Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <73flbl$7j7$1@demon.uunet.ca> <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net> <73hji5$l03@news.netcologne.de> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980226 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.6-RELEASE (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:12:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.127.0.130 X-Trace: news2.giganews.com 912039138 209.127.0.130 (Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:12:18 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:12:18 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!207.207.0.26!nntp.giganews.com!news2.giganews.com.POSTED!gemini.c-com.net!swaim Juergen Nieveler wrote: : Gene Wirchenko schrieb in Nachricht <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net>... :> For example, Visual FoxPro 3 was succeeded by VFP 5 (4 didn't :>exist.) and in order to run VFP 5 on a Win 3.x system, you have to... :>Well, actually, you can't. VFP 5 requires a 32-bit OS. This is not :>the best way of dealing with a bug. : Sorry if this thread drifts off-topic, but someday you would have to migrate : from 16 to 32bit, wouldnīt you? Why? If you've got a stable 16 bit system, why muck with it? Especially since the system requirements for the 16 bit system are much less. I'm converting some apps from 16 bit PowerBuilder 4 to 32 bit 6.5 primarily because of outside pressure (DBAs want to drop SQL*NET 1). (I found a few behavior changes, but nothing major.) -- Mike Swaim, Avatar of Chaos: Disclaimer:I sometimes lie. Home: swaim@c-com.net Alum: swaim@alumni.rice.edu Quote: "Boingie"^4 Y,W&D ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:26:17 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 32 Message-ID: <365c8f99.24331929@news.vip.net> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <73flbl$7j7$1@demon.uunet.ca> <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net> <73hji5$l03@news.netcologne.de> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.20 X-Trace: 912039847 A01OARAUVD414CCD1C usenet87.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail "Juergen Nieveler" wrote: >Gene Wirchenko schrieb in Nachricht <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net>... > >> For example, Visual FoxPro 3 was succeeded by VFP 5 (4 didn't >>exist.) and in order to run VFP 5 on a Win 3.x system, you have to... >>Well, actually, you can't. VFP 5 requires a 32-bit OS. This is not >>the best way of dealing with a bug. >> > >Sorry if this thread drifts off-topic, but someday you would have to migrate >from 16 to 32bit, wouldnīt you? Itīs simply not possible to do a slow >migration (VFP 3.5 with 20 bits, VFP4 with 24bits etc.), itīs just like >driving left or right... True, but there is no longer any support for the products. If you were to find a showstopper bug in VFP 3 and you're running Win 3.x, you may have to replace your computer. What if you have apps that don't run under 95/NT? And MS is comfortable with this. I'm not. >if you try to shift slowly from one to the other, there might be a crash :-) Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: bbreynolds@aol.com (BBReynolds) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 26 Nov 1998 12:24:17 GMT References: <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Message-ID: <19981126072417.27794.00001407@ngol06.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail In article <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del>, "Foobar T. Clown" writes: >You had to be lucky too, because back then, the computers weren't built >with relays or vacuum tubes or anything reliable like that. Oh no! >They used slaves. It was pretty much a fifty fifty proposition that one >or two slaves would keel over from heat prostration during the middle of >a run. You'd have to find them, and replace them, and do it all over >again. It wasn't really that bad, as the slaves were trained to keep their eyes open at all times; to find the dead slaves, you just had to go up and down the ranks, looking for one or more with their eyes closed. They were also trained to hold whatever "1" or "0" position they were in when they died, do that the replacement slave would automatically assume the position of the dead slave and your run would start from where it had stopped when you had the slave driver start the drum beating again. -- Bruce B. Reynolds, Systems Consultant: Founder of Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL: Sweeping Up Behind Data Processing Dinosaurs ###### From: "Samael" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:47:52 -0000 Lines: 40 Message-ID: <365d5c14.0@192.168.0.20> References: <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> <19981126072417.27794.00001407@ngol06.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.147.15.205 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.itg.net.uk!192.168.0.20!192.168.0.1 BBReynolds wrote in message <19981126072417.27794.00001407@ngol06.aol.com>... > >In article <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del>, "Foobar T. Clown" >writes: > >>You had to be lucky too, because back then, the computers weren't built >>with relays or vacuum tubes or anything reliable like that. Oh no! >>They used slaves. It was pretty much a fifty fifty proposition that one >>or two slaves would keel over from heat prostration during the middle of >>a run. You'd have to find them, and replace them, and do it all over >>again. > >It wasn't really that bad, as the slaves were trained to keep their eyes open >at >all times; to find the dead slaves, you just had to go up and down the ranks, >looking for one or more with their eyes closed. They were also trained to hold >whatever "1" or "0" position they were in when they died, do that the >replacement slave would automatically assume the position of the dead slave and >your run would start from where it had stopped when you had the slave driver >start >the drum beating again. We always used to use check-slaves. Each slave-byte would have a couple fo spare slaves chained to them, watching to see if any slaved keeled over. If they did, the check-slave checked to see what bit they had been and then took their place. Slightly more expensive on slaves, but the wrong message almost never got there. Samael ###### From: ping@actrix.gen.nz (Peter Ingham) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:01:37 GMT Organization: Private Site Reply-To: ping@actrix.gen.nz Message-ID: <365da498.35293839@192.168.1.14> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.100.53.165 X-Trace: 27 Nov 1998 08:01:38 -1300, 192.100.53.165 Lines: 41 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!203.97.37.7!newsfeed.clear.net.nz!news.iprolink.co.nz!news.actrix.gen.nz!192.100.53.165 Ingvar Mattsson wrote: >"Foobar T. Clown" writes: > >> Ferg wrote: >> > Humour has been deemed unproductive [...] Anybody found illegally >> > producing humour will be dealt with severely. >> >> Speaking of which, all this talk about bits and bytes is well and good, >> but back in the *REAL* old days, computers used roman numerals. You had >> to do all your data entry on blocks of polished marble using a hammer >> and chisel, and when you wanted to run a job, you had to lug it all up >> to the top of the Acropolis along with an unblemished male ram, and >> submit it to the Oracle. >> >> You had to be lucky too, because back then, the computers weren't built >> with relays or vacuum tubes or anything reliable like that. Oh no! >> They used slaves. It was pretty much a fifty fifty proposition that one >> or two slaves would keel over from heat prostration during the middle of >> a run. You'd have to find them, and replace them, and do it all over >> again. > >Oh? You didn't have the Advanced Option, using male slaves for 1 and >female slaves to 0? Just string'em along and use a bit-slicing >processor (slave handler) on the incoming data, accumulate them in >cages and even let them produce more bits for you. > >Advanced it was, indeed. Worked quite well too, up until "humane >rights" was claimed to be something applying to software too. No more >crash-testing of new programs after that. This, of course, provides an insight into the original meaning of the term "bit stuffing". > >//Ingvar (bit-paring would, at least, be interesting...) -- Peter S Ingham ping@actrix.gen.nz Lower Hutt, New Zealand ###### From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: 26 Nov 1998 23:37:49 GMT Lines: 13 Message-ID: <73kood$lln$4@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <365C9405.2020@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-132.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: irk.zetnet.co.uk 912123469 22199 194.247.40.168 (26 Nov 1998 23:37:49 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Nov 1998 23:37:49 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!colt.net!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1998-11-25 foobar@gazonk.del said: :They'd probably make some egregious changes to the "C" programming :language to deal with word sizes that were not multiples of the char :size, but I'm sure it would be no worse than what they did with all :the __far and __near pointers in "real mode" C. No, I think if what you suggest were the case, C would never have replaced B, and we'd now be sitting around using B++. And *really* complaining about the lack of strict typing and RTTI. -- Communa (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) -- you know soft spoken changes nothing ###### From: gmiller@inca.co.nz (Gaven Miller) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: 27 Nov 1998 07:07:44 GMT Organization: Comnet Technologies Ltd, Wellington, NEW ZEALAND Lines: 25 Message-ID: <73lj40$m18$1@newshost.comnet.co.nz> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.36.226.1 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!news.telstra.net.nz!newshost.comnet.co.nz!inca01!gmiller Tim Shoppa (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) wrote: > skritch@home.com wrote: > > "Frank Jaerschky" writes: > > > I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not a big > > > deal, but what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? Through careful detective work, I've managed to track down your missing megabyte. It is currently holidaying in the Caribbean, surrounded by scantily clad microprocessors. Unfortunately for you, I hear that another five megabytes are due to join them in the middle of next week. The best you can do to prevent this happening is to upgrade your computer, ditching your drab Pentium and installing a sexier CPU - like a 68010. Or a 65816. -- All email sent to my inca address will fail, however I can now be contacted via an intermediary : gem at tos pl net. I would like to apologise to the genuine respondents that this may inconvenience. ###### From: David O'Bedlam Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> <365AEE69.79D76F3C@jkmicro.com> Organization: Gehenna-By-The-Sea Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.201.34.8 X-Trace: news14.ispnews.com 912244736 207.201.34.8 (Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:18:56 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:18:56 EDT Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:18:56 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.ispnews.com!news14.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Jim Stewart wrote: > This thread reminds me of a Dvorak quote that went something like this.. > "He sat down at the computer with the easy confidence of a man that > knew why 1k didn't exactly equal 1000." Admission of ignorance follows: Why doesn't 1k equal 1000? D. -- "I can't gracefully accept the universe. But I've found I that I *can* gracefully accept the fact that the universe should not exist." -- Satanas Uxora, on alt.angst ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:25:26 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 10 Message-ID: <73p0kd$90a$1@news.igs.net> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> <365AEE69.79D76F3C@jkmicro.com> <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye15.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 912262605 9226 206.248.37.149 (28 Nov 1998 14:16:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Nov 1998 14:16:45 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail David O'Bedlam wrote in message <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com>... >>Admission of ignorance follows: Why doesn't 1k equal 1000? Because it equals 1024. (10000000000 in binary). ###### From: David O'Bedlam Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <73flbl$7j7$1@demon.uunet.ca> <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net> <73hji5$l03@news.netcologne.de> Organization: Gehenna-By-The-Sea Lines: 19 Message-ID: <0pP72.41$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.201.34.8 X-Trace: news14.ispnews.com 912245436 207.201.34.8 (Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:30:36 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 04:30:36 EDT Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:30:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!209.44.33.119!hub1.ispnews.com!news14.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Mike Swaim wrote: > If you've got a stable 16 bit system, why muck with it? Especially > since the system requirements for the 16 bit system are much less. Two hard drives in this box (586 with 32M RAM): the other one (hers) holds DR-DOS 7 and Windows 3.1, this one (mine) holds Linux Slackware. My stuff occasionally needs more than 64M of swap to run; on the other "side" of Lilo her programs (except maybe Netscape) just *zing* along. It sometimes makes me yearn for a 16-bit unix. The -- "I can't gracefully accept the universe. But I've found I that I *can* gracefully accept the fact that the universe should not exist." -- Satanas Uxora, on alt.angst ###### Message-ID: <3660262A.4149C7EC@home.com> From: frank tuccio Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-AtHome0404 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> <365AEE69.79D76F3C@jkmicro.com> <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:37:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.3.187.45 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:37:38 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.nj.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Because it equals 1024..... David O'Bedlam wrote: > > Jim Stewart wrote: > > This thread reminds me of a Dvorak quote that went something like this.. > > > "He sat down at the computer with the easy confidence of a man that > > knew why 1k didn't exactly equal 1000." > > Admission of ignorance follows: Why doesn't 1k equal 1000? > > D. > > -- > "I can't gracefully accept the universe. But I've found I that > I *can* gracefully accept the fact that the universe should > not exist." -- Satanas Uxora, on alt.angst ###### From: "Joel C. Ewing" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:51:22 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> <365AEE69.79D76F3C@jkmicro.com> <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> <73p0kd$90a$1@news.igs.net> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-ELN-Date: 28 Nov 1998 18:51:58 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Sat Nov 28 11:45:05 1998 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Lines: 46 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust220.tnt8.dfw5.da.uu.net Message-ID: <36604629.883282D8@acm.org> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail Donald Tees wrote: > David O'Bedlam wrote in message <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com>... > > >>Admission of ignorance follows: Why doesn't 1k equal 1000? > > Because it equals 1024. (10000000000 in binary). Not really an answer. The Greek origins of "K" and "M" would demand an interpretation of 10**3 and 10**6, and for most contexts separated from digital computers and even in many contexts within the computer industry this is its proper interpretation. For the digital computer architectures in common usage today, memory addresses at the hardware instruction level are expressed in base 2, and also physical memory is installed in units that have a capacity of some multiple of a power of 2 bytes (as in 8*1024*1024), and typically the total memory capacity is either 2**n bytes for some integer n or m*2**n bytes, where "m" is a relatively small integer value. When forced to describe suballocation of memory, people quickly tired of saying 1024, 4096 8192, etc. over and over, so the shorthand convention was adopted of refering to such values as 1K, 4K, 8K, etc. in a context where is was clear that 2**10 = 1024 was intended rather than 10**3, and similarly when memory sizes increased, of using "M" for 2**20 = 1,048,576 and "G" for 2**30. Those who think computing began with Intel microprocessors may erroneously think things have always been this way - this is not the case. There have been computer architectures in which memory addresses were expressed in decimal (on which 40K of memory meant 40,000), and computer architectures in which memory addresses were expressed in octal (on which "K" was sometimes a shorthand for 1000 base 8 = 512). Language purists over the last several decades have suggested several strategies for distinguishing among the conflicting usages of "K", and "M" (for example, "bK" = 2**10 vs "K" = 10**3), but the popular ambiguous usage has prevailed. Capacity of disk drives is not so closely connected with base two (number of cylinders, heads, and, sectors/track have no real architectural reason to be contrained to a power of 2), and for these reasons it makes much less sense to describe drive capacity using K, M, and G as 2**10, 2**20, and 2**30, but one can find both this usage and the usage of K, M, and G as 10**3, 10**6, 10**9 when drive capacities are discussed. Typically the hard drive manufacturer will advertise with the M=10**6 and G=10**9 convention as this gives the appearance of larger capacity values, while some operating systems may report the capacity using K=2**10 and M=2**20 conventions. -- Joel C. Ewing, Fort Smith, AR jcewing@acm.org ###### Message-ID: <36606C39.CF01723C@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:33:45 -0800 From: Dale DePriest X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> <365AEE69.79D76F3C@jkmicro.com> <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> <3660262A.4149C7EC@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.idt.net!WCG!arl-news-svc-3.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!nntp-nih2naaa.compuserve.com frank tuccio wrote: > Because it equals 1024..... > > David O'Bedlam wrote: > > > > Jim Stewart wrote: > > > This thread reminds me of a Dvorak quote that went something like this.. > > > > > "He sat down at the computer with the easy confidence of a man that > > > knew why 1k didn't exactly equal 1000." > > > > Admission of ignorance follows: Why doesn't 1k equal 1000? > Because 1000 isn't a binary friendly number.. Since memory is reference by binary addresses the binary friendly number for memory addressing is 1024 (10 bits 0 - 1023). Dale ###### From: "Donald Tees" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:05:49 -0500 Organization: IGS - Information Gateway Services Lines: 67 Message-ID: <73pv42$pq7$1@news.igs.net> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> <365AEE69.79D76F3C@jkmicro.com> <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> <73p0kd$90a$1@news.igs.net> <36604629.883282D8@acm.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ttye0c.kw.igs.net X-Trace: news.igs.net 912293826 26439 206.248.37.140 (28 Nov 1998 22:57:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@igs.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Nov 1998 22:57:06 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!130.185.14.36!torn!nntp.igs.net!news.igs.net!not-for-mail Thank you for making it so simple. In the past, when memory was expensive, it was purchased "by the K" because we did not have any words for binary numbers, and the amount purchased was always a binary number that was a 1, followed by a bunch of zeros. For example, you would buy 1000000 memory locations, or 1000000000000 memory locations(those being binary numbers). We did not have a word, like "a million" to express them. It happens, though, that a one followed by ten zeros is equal to 1024 in decimal. That was a handy size, and came to be known as 1K because it was close to one thousand. It worked, too. It IS easier to say one K. than it is to say one, zero, zero, zero zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero binary of memory. Joel C. Ewing wrote in message <36604629.883282D8@acm.org>... >Donald Tees wrote: >> David O'Bedlam wrote in message <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com>... >> >> >>Admission of ignorance follows: Why doesn't 1k equal 1000? >> >> Because it equals 1024. (10000000000 in binary). > >Not really an answer. The Greek origins of "K" and "M" would demand an >interpretation of 10**3 and 10**6, and for most contexts separated from >digital computers and even in many contexts within the computer industry >this is its proper interpretation. For the digital computer >architectures in common usage today, memory addresses at the hardware >instruction level are expressed in base 2, and also physical memory is >installed in units that have a capacity of some multiple of a power of 2 >bytes (as in 8*1024*1024), and typically the total memory capacity is >either 2**n bytes for some integer n or m*2**n bytes, where "m" is a >relatively small integer value. When forced to describe suballocation >of memory, people quickly tired of saying 1024, 4096 8192, etc. over and >over, so the shorthand convention was adopted of refering to such values >as 1K, 4K, 8K, etc. in a context where is was clear that 2**10 = 1024 >was intended rather than 10**3, and similarly when memory sizes >increased, of using "M" for 2**20 = 1,048,576 and "G" for 2**30. Those >who think computing began with Intel microprocessors may erroneously >think things have always been this way - this is not the case. There >have been computer architectures in which memory addresses were >expressed in decimal (on which 40K of memory meant 40,000), and computer >architectures in which memory addresses were expressed in octal (on >which "K" was sometimes a shorthand for 1000 base 8 = 512). > >Language purists over the last several decades have suggested several >strategies for distinguishing among the conflicting usages of "K", and >"M" (for example, "bK" = 2**10 vs "K" = 10**3), but the popular >ambiguous usage has prevailed. > >Capacity of disk drives is not so closely connected with base two >(number of cylinders, heads, and, sectors/track have no real >architectural reason to be contrained to a power of 2), and for these >reasons it makes much less sense to describe drive capacity using K, M, >and G as 2**10, 2**20, and 2**30, but one can find both this usage and >the usage of K, M, and G as 10**3, 10**6, 10**9 when drive capacities >are discussed. Typically the hard drive manufacturer will advertise >with the M=10**6 and G=10**9 convention as this gives the appearance of >larger capacity values, while some operating systems may report the >capacity using K=2**10 and M=2**20 conventions. >-- >Joel C. Ewing, Fort Smith, AR jcewing@acm.org > ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:33:55 -0500 Organization: Kettering University (formerly GMI E&MI) - Flint MI Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> <365AEE69.79D76F3C@jkmicro.com> <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> <73p0kd$90a$1@news.igs.net> <36604629.883282D8@acm.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: nova.kettering.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: <36604629.883282D8@acm.org> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!24.130.1.14!lsnws01.we.mediaone.net!24.131.1.12!denws01.mw.mediaone.net!news.gmi.edu!nova.kettering.edu!lee1089 On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Joel C. Ewing wrote: > Capacity of disk drives is not so closely connected with base two > (number of cylinders, heads, and, sectors/track have no real > architectural reason to be contrained to a power of 2), and for these > reasons it makes much less sense to describe drive capacity using K, M, > and G as 2**10, 2**20, and 2**30, but one can find both this usage and > the usage of K, M, and G as 10**3, 10**6, 10**9 when drive capacities > are discussed. Typically the hard drive manufacturer will advertise > with the M=10**6 and G=10**9 convention as this gives the appearance of > larger capacity values, while some operating systems may report the > capacity using K=2**10 and M=2**20 conventions. Actually, it's not quite that simple. Usually hard drive manufacturers use 2^10 for k but 1000 k or 1024000 for M and 1000 M or 1024000000 for G. Sometimes they use 2^10 or 1024 for k and 2^20 or 1048576 for M but still use 1000 M for G or 1048576000 for G. And don't forget 1.44 M floppies which are actually 1440k or 1474560 byte floppies (k being 1024) instead of 1.44M being 1.44*2^20 which would be 1509949.44 bytes or 1474.56k ____________________________________________________________________________ | "A little nonsense now and then, | "If it walks out of the fridge, let Is relished by the wisest men." | it go" -- John Dougherty --W.W. | "If it loves you it will come back." | -- Ian Davis __________________________________|_________________________________________ Theta Xi Kappa Sigma ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Sun, 29 Nov 98 12:25:43 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 25 Message-ID: <73rfog$dku$6@strato.ultra.net> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: d14.dial-17.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 29 Nov 1998 12:47:12 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.ultranet.com!d14 In article <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del>, "Foobar T. Clown" wrote: >skritch@home.com wrote: >> >> Tim Shoppa writes: >> >> > You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the capital letter "O" and >> > the lowercase letter "l"... >> >> Luxury. Back in my day, all we had were 0's. We painted them >> different colors to tell them apart. Once this started bogging the >> processes down, we switched to naming them. I still miss Bob. > >You had paint? You were lucky. We had to keep them all in a big >cardboard box ('cause memory hadn't been invented yet), and we couldn't >tell them apart at all. We had to slave seventeen hours each day, hand >cranking the CPU. Then we had to clean the box, walk home twelve miles >through the snow, ... You forgot to say "uphill, both ways". :-) /BAH > ... and when we got there, our mum and dad would beat us, >and send us to bed without any supper. Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: martin@ibert.com (Martin Ibert) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:03:19 GMT Organization: The Seventh Heaven, Berlin, Germany Lines: 16 Message-ID: <3661b59f.125028510@news.home.ibert.com> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> <365AEE69.79D76F3C@jkmicro.com> <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> <73p0kd$90a$1@news.igs.net> <36604629.883282D8@acm.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: arezzo.home.ibert.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newscore.ipf.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!home.ibert.com!news On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:51:22 -0600, "Joel C. Ewing" wrote: >Typically the hard drive manufacturer will advertise >with the M=10**6 and G=10**9 convention as this gives the appearance of >larger capacity values, while some operating systems may report the >capacity using K=2**10 and M=2**20 conventions. Quite so. The single monstrosity in all this is, of course, the 1.44 MB floppy disk. In this case, the "M" actually means 2**10 * 10**3, one metric "k" times one binary "K". (Don't believe me? The floppy in question has 80 cylinders of 18 sectors on 2 sides each - 2880 sectors in all. Each sector holds 512 bytes - two of them hold 1024 bytes, or one KByte. So the whole thing holds 1440 KByte, or 1.44 * 1000 * 1024 bytes. Formatted, of course.) ###### Message-ID: <36622FCE.4D5F@hiwaay.net> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:41:07 -0600 From: David K Cornutt X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73ess2$njj@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 40 NNTP-Posting-Host: tnt3-246.HiWAAY.net 208.147.146.246 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!208.147.154.58!news.hiwaay.net!pet.hiwaay.net Andrew Cadley wrote: > Well we had memory. Our own memory. We were forced to remember and shout > them into a big microphone in order. After each bit had been correctly > recognised, it was necessary to sit and wait for *exactly* one hour before > shouting the next one. Even a minor interruption in this schedule would > confuse the humble machine and we'd all have to start again. What??? You only had to remember one bit? Once an hour? Bah. I can see you've never had a job as a bit in a delay-line memory. We had to stand in a circle, simultaneously shouting out bits while listening to the person next to us shout out bits which we would in turn have to shout an instant later. All day long, same old information. It got so boring we actually looked forward to store operations. And we weren't allowed to have any water, because if someone took a bathroom break, the whole system had to be rebooted. And have you ever known the humiliation of, after working your fingers to the bone to be the best at your job, being replaced by a vial of mercury? And then later on they brought in the drum memories. Boy, was that a job! After a twelve-hour shift you built up so much angular momentum that when you tried to walk home, every time you turned right you wound up flat on the ground. Oh, well. It was still better than than job at the bowling alley. :-) -- David K. Cornutt, Residentially Engineered, Huntsville, AL Solving the Eternal Question: "Who is Kimberly Morris, and how did she get her own exit on Interstate 65?" ###### From: gdurb@aardvark.apana.org.au (George Durbridge) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Date: 30 Nov 1998 07:36:04 GMT Organization: Aardvark Internet (03) 9670-9877 Lines: 28 Message-ID: <73tht4$3cv$1@llama.teragen.com.au> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: aardvark.teragen.com.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!news.sydney.apana.org.au!news.apana.org.au!news.teragen.com.au!aardvark!gdurb Foobar T. Clown (foobar@gazonk.del) wrote: : Ferg wrote: : > Humour has been deemed unproductive [...] Anybody found illegally : > producing humour will be dealt with severely. This is just for the carry bit ? : Speaking of which, all this talk about bits and bytes is well and good, : but back in the *REAL* old days, computers used roman numerals. You had : to do all your data entry on blocks of polished marble using a hammer : and chisel, and when you wanted to run a job, you had to lug it all up : to the top of the Acropolis along with an unblemished male ram, and : submit it to the Oracle. : You had to be lucky too, because back then, the computers weren't built : with relays or vacuum tubes or anything reliable like that. Oh no! : They used slaves. It was pretty much a fifty fifty proposition that one : or two slaves would keel over from heat prostration during the middle of : a run. You'd have to find them, and replace them, and do it all over : again. : And you know what? You try to tell it to kids these days, and they : don't believe you. -- /* George Durbridge Melbourne, Victoria, Australia */ /* tel (03) 9280 3390 fax (03) 9280 3355 */ ###### Message-ID: <3662EDFE.402F@gazonk.del> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:11:58 -0500 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> <73tht4$3cv$1@llama.teragen.com.au> <3662A9A5.8E1A6E79@iweb.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 30 Nov 1998 14:13:10 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.idt.net!netnews.com!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 Tomasz Gorka wrote: > > > Foobar T. Clown (foobar@gazonk.del) wrote: > > : And you know what? You try to tell it to kids these days, and > > : they don't believe you. > > how dare thee steal the punch line from "four yorkshiremen"! Four Yorkshiremen? We used to *DREAM* of watching the Four Yorkshiremen, but we didn't have a television. Oh no! We had to entertain ourselves by sitting 'round the living room watching an old box of laundry detergent... Cardboard box? You were lucky!... ###### Message-ID: <3662A9A5.8E1A6E79@iweb.net.au> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 00:50:22 +1030 From: Tomasz Gorka X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers To: George Durbridge Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> <73tht4$3cv$1@llama.teragen.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.38.176.248 X-Trace: 1 Dec 1998 00:49:29 +1050, 203.38.176.248 Lines: 38 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.uwa.edu.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!yorrell.saard.net!news.camtech.net.au!news.esc.net.au!203.38.176.248 George Durbridge wrote: > Foobar T. Clown (foobar@gazonk.del) wrote: > : Ferg wrote: > : > Humour has been deemed unproductive [...] Anybody found illegally > : > producing humour will be dealt with severely. > > This is just for the carry bit ? > > : Speaking of which, all this talk about bits and bytes is well and good, > : but back in the *REAL* old days, computers used roman numerals. You had > : to do all your data entry on blocks of polished marble using a hammer > : and chisel, and when you wanted to run a job, you had to lug it all up > : to the top of the Acropolis along with an unblemished male ram, and > : submit it to the Oracle. > > : You had to be lucky too, because back then, the computers weren't built > : with relays or vacuum tubes or anything reliable like that. Oh no! > : They used slaves. It was pretty much a fifty fifty proposition that one > : or two slaves would keel over from heat prostration during the middle of > : a run. You'd have to find them, and replace them, and do it all over > : again. > > : And you know what? You try to tell it to kids these days, and they > : don't believe you. how dare thee steal the punch line from "four yorkshiremen"! > > > -- > /* George Durbridge Melbourne, Victoria, Australia */ > /* tel (03) 9280 3390 fax (03) 9280 3355 */ ###### From: william.hamblen@localhost (William Hamblen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 18:37:11 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <73flbl$7j7$1@demon.uunet.ca> <365ba90c.49583120@news.vip.net> <73hji5$l03@news.netcologne.de> <0pP72.41$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> Reply-To: william.hamblen@nashville.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.65.139.21 X-Trace: 912506448 4TJCV727N8B15CF41C usenet80.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!william.hamblen David O'Bedlam (thedavid@tsoft.com) wrote: : It sometimes makes me yearn for a 16-bit unix. Minix? Non-folkloric: I successfully ran Linux on a 486SLC (20 MHz, 16 bit data bus) with 16 Mbytes RAM. Surprisingly, everything but X was pretty peppy. X definitely was a slow train. Windows 95 was a laugh. That system was struck by lightning. The surge got through the telephone line, destroyed my 9600 bps modem and destroyed the serial card the modem was connected to. The trace to the power pilot LED was destroyed, although the LED survived. The incident gave me an excuse to get a 200 MHz Pentium-S motherboard. ###### From: Richard Lamb Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:06:55 -0600 Organization: Tapestry Software Lines: 3 Message-ID: <36634F3F.730E4998@flash.net> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73ess2$njj@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36622FCE.4D5F@hiwaay.net> Reply-To: lamb01@flash.net NNTP-Posting-Host: p102.amax2.dialup.sat1.flash.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: "Richard Lamb" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-FLASHNET (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail I always wondered about that drum memory. Wasn't InnaGoddaDaVida was a diagnostic???? ###### From: jtkare@ibm.net (Jordin Kare) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:22:40 -0800 Organization: Sirius Connections Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> <365AEE69.79D76F3C@jkmicro.com> <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> <73p0kd$90a$1@news.igs.net> <36604629.883282D8@acm.org> <3661b59f.125028510@news.home.ibert.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-asok07--153.sirius.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.best.com!newshub.sirius.com!newsfiler.sirius.com!ppp-asok07--153.sirius.net!user In article <3661b59f.125028510@news.home.ibert.com>, martin@ibert.com (Martin Ibert) wrote: > On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:51:22 -0600, "Joel C. Ewing" > wrote: > > >Typically the hard drive manufacturer will advertise > >with the M=10**6 and G=10**9 convention as this gives the appearance of > >larger capacity values, while some operating systems may report the > >capacity using K=2**10 and M=2**20 conventions. > > Quite so. The single monstrosity in all this is, of course, the 1.44 > MB floppy disk. In this case, the "M" actually means 2**10 * 10**3, > one metric "k" times one binary "K". Life is also interesting when dealing with very large memories. 1k=1024 is off by only 2.4% from 1k=1000. But 1M can have values differing by 4.8% (1024^2 vs. 1000^2). For 1G, the error can be over 7%. And for a satellite design I was involved in a few years ago, we specified a 2 Tbit (2 Terabit) solid-state recorder: it made a 10% difference (and a potential difference of a couple of million dollars) whether that was the metric Tera (10^12) or a binary Tera (2^40). Jordin (the Tera of the spaceways) Kare ###### From: Andreas Mollestad Nilsen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 00:19:57 +0100 Organization: Telenor Online Public Access Lines: 48 Message-ID: <3663281C.C09116AA@online.no> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> Reply-To: amollno@hotmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ti16a03-0048.dialup.online.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: readme.online.no 912468047 11599 130.67.120.240 (30 Nov 1998 23:20:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@online.no NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Nov 1998 23:20:47 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,no Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.online.no!news.online.no!not-for-mail Ingvar Mattsson wrote: > "Foobar T. Clown" writes: > > > Ferg wrote: > > > Humour has been deemed unproductive [...] Anybody found illegally > > > producing humour will be dealt with severely. > > > > Speaking of which, all this talk about bits and bytes is well and good, > > but back in the *REAL* old days, computers used roman numerals. You had > > to do all your data entry on blocks of polished marble using a hammer > > and chisel, and when you wanted to run a job, you had to lug it all up > > to the top of the Acropolis along with an unblemished male ram, and > > submit it to the Oracle. > > > > You had to be lucky too, because back then, the computers weren't built > > with relays or vacuum tubes or anything reliable like that. Oh no! > > They used slaves. It was pretty much a fifty fifty proposition that one > > or two slaves would keel over from heat prostration during the middle of > > a run. You'd have to find them, and replace them, and do it all over > > again. > > Oh? You didn't have the Advanced Option, using male slaves for 1 and > female slaves to 0? Just string'em along and use a bit-slicing > processor (slave handler) on the incoming data, accumulate them in > cages and even let them produce more bits for you. > > Advanced it was, indeed. Worked quite well too, up until "humane > rights" was claimed to be something applying to software too. No more > crash-testing of new programs after that. > > //Ingvar (bit-paring would, at least, be interesting...) > -- > Sysadmin, disgruntled, unpolite. > I don't speak for my employer nor do they speak for me. > Accept this and life will be easier. ingvar@idasys.se Just a litle question? is this what they call the master/slave method of datatransmission? ;) the newbee called a-moll -- i herby disclaim responibility of annything that might be caused by my misspellings, misabrivations or missuse of any word or saying of any sort in this posting. ###### From: fleetvis@ricochet.net (phil) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 07:44:39 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 18 Message-ID: <36639a34.9628394@news.ricochet.net> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> <73tht4$3cv$1@llama.teragen.com.au> <3662A9A5.8E1A6E79@iweb.net.au> <3662EDFE.402F@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.179.130.24 X-Trace: 912498106 F7W8ZAFJM8218CCB3C usenet80.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:11:58 -0500, "Foobar T. Clown" wrote: >Tomasz Gorka wrote: >> >> > Foobar T. Clown (foobar@gazonk.del) wrote: >> > : And you know what? You try to tell it to kids these days, and >> > : they don't believe you. >> >> how dare thee steal the punch line from "four yorkshiremen"! > >Four Yorkshiremen? We used to *DREAM* of watching the Four >Yorkshiremen, but we didn't have a television. Oh no! We had to >entertain ourselves by sitting 'round the living room watching an old >box of laundry detergent... Your laundry detergent was in a box? You were lucky. We had to live in a box while the laundry detergent watched us. ###### From: wess@gtii.com (Wes Szumera) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:01:37 GMT Organization: Definite Lack Of Lines: 17 Message-ID: <7410bo$c59$1@supernews.com> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> Reply-To: wess@gtii.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.143.17.199 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 912524472 6GT/K2VXT11C7D08FC usenet58.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail >skritch@home.com wrote: >> >> Tim Shoppa writes: >> >> > You have 0's and 1's? I have to use the capital letter "O" and >> > the lowercase letter "l"... >> >> Luxury. Back in my day, all we had were 0's. We painted them >> different colors to tell them apart. Once this started bogging the >> processes down, we switched to naming them. I still miss Bob. > My machine has 1's, 0's, and ?'s. Must be the reason for parity errors. Wes ###### From: colincampbell@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 18:19:17 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 14 Message-ID: <741buj$qkv$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73ess2$njj@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36622FCE.4D5F@hiwaay.net> <36634F3F.730E4998@flash.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.142.50.74 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Dec 01 18:19:17 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x1.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 139.142.50.74 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newspeer1.nac.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <36634F3F.730E4998@flash.net>, lamb01@flash.net wrote: > I always wondered about that drum memory. > > Wasn't InnaGoddaDaVida was a diagnostic???? > No, Inagaddadavida was an early Windows prototype. It kept driving the bits who were chanting it mad, so in order to get it out of their collective drum memory, they had to reach for a copy of their low-level formatter "Wipeout". -- Ecc. 12:13-14 -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### From: Richard Lamb Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 03:14:19 -0600 Organization: Tapestry Software Lines: 24 Message-ID: <366504EB.4F77E166@flash.net> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73ess2$njj@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36622FCE.4D5F@hiwaay.net> <36634F3F.730E4998@flash.net> <741buj$qkv$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Reply-To: lamb01@flash.net NNTP-Posting-Host: p31.amax1.dialup.sat1.flash.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: "Richard Lamb" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-FLASHNET (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail No, ya got it all wrong! Wipe-out was the program loader! InnaGoddaDaVida was an I/O diagnostic..... colincampbell@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > In article <36634F3F.730E4998@flash.net>, > lamb01@flash.net wrote: > > I always wondered about that drum memory. > > > > Wasn't InnaGoddaDaVida was a diagnostic???? > > > > No, Inagaddadavida was an early Windows prototype. It kept driving the bits > who were chanting it mad, so in order to get it out of their collective drum > memory, they had to reach for a copy of their low-level formatter "Wipeout". > -- Ecc. 12:13-14 > > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### From: Richard Lamb Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 22:29:41 -0600 Organization: Tapestry Software Lines: 10 Message-ID: <366613B4.75531D91@flash.net> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73ess2$njj@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <36622FCE.4D5F@hiwaay.net> <36634F3F.730E4998@flash.net> <741buj$qkv$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366504EB.4F77E166@flash.net> Reply-To: lamb01@flash.net NNTP-Posting-Host: p122.amax8.dialup.sat1.flash.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: "Richard Lamb" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-FLASHNET (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail Richard Lamb wrote: > > No, ya got it all wrong! > > Wipe-out was the program loader! > > InnaGoddaDaVida was an I/O diagnostic..... > but I COULD be mistaken... ###### From: carlton@walleye.ccbr.umn.edu (Carlton Hogan) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: 2 Dec 1998 22:46:13 GMT Organization: Department of Biostatistics, University of Minnesota Lines: 13 Message-ID: <744fvl$ffv$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <365a4745.43904052@news.vip.net> <365AEE69.79D76F3C@jkmicro.com> <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: walleye.ccbr.umn.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news6.mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!news1.tc.umn.edu!walleye.ccbr.umn.edu!carlton In article <4eP72.36$fn2.663@news14.ispnews.com>, David O'Bedlam wrote: >Jim Stewart wrote: >> This thread reminds me of a Dvorak quote that went something like this.. > >> "He sat down at the computer with the easy confidence of a man that >> knew why 1k didn't exactly equal 1000." > >Admission of ignorance follows: Why doesn't 1k equal 1000? Umm. Binary Math? 1024= 2^10 ###### From: jeff@jakfield.xu-netx.com (Jeff York) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Reply-To: jeff@jakfield.xu-netx.com Message-ID: <36668d20.16352533@news.u-net.com> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <73etq3$bqp$1@supernews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:16:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.102.196.22 X-Complaints-To: news@u-net.net X-Trace: newsr2.u-net.net 912690703 195.102.196.22 (Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:11:43 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:11:43 BST Organization: (Posted via) U-NET Internet Ltd. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!nntp.abs.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!peer.news.th.u-net.net!u-net!newsr2.u-net.net.POSTED!not-for-mail "Jack Peacock" wrote: >Frank Jaerschky wrote in message ><73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz>... >>I used to have 128MB of SDRAM, now only showing 127MB. Not >a big deal, but >>what is happening? Any ideas, any fixes? >> >The extra 1MB is in your bit bucket. When memory is erased >and reclaimed for new programs, the bits are normally >recycled (this is called garbage collection) through a bit >bucket, part of the support hardware on your motherboard. >If there are too many bits in use sometimes the extra bits >will stick inside the bit bucket. This is a common problem >with SDRAM (the S refers to Static, meaning the bits can >develop a static charge and cling to the bit bucket). To >recover this memory, look for the bit bucket IC on your >motherboard chip set. Press down on it several times to >squeeze out the remaining bits and then your memory should >come back. Or, he might be writing programs with too many short loops in them. A very fast processor might thus generate excessive centrifugal force in the program and fling the odd bit clear out of the processor. Addition of a few NOPs in each loop might abate the problem somewhat. -- Jeff. Ironbridge, Shrops, U.K. jeff@jakfield.xu-netx.com (remove the x..x round u-net for return address) ... Some days you're the pigeon.. And some days you're the statue.. ###### From: p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:27:10 +1200 Organization: University of Auckland Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> <73tht4$3cv$1@llama.teragen.com.au> <3662A9A5.8E1A6E79@iweb.net.au> <3662EDFE.402F@gazonk.del> <36639a34.9628394@news.ricochet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p.kerr.mus.auckland.ac.nz X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.2.0b6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-stock.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.iprolink.co.nz!auckland.ac.nz!p.kerr fleetvis@ricochet.net (phil) wrote: >Your laundry detergent was in a box? You were lucky. We had to live in >a box while the laundry detergent watched us. Should prob'ly go to a.f.u but what the heck, about the time some rich and/or lucky folks down these parts were getting a TV to watch the one transmitter that was on for 3 hours each evening, the rest of us young tearaways got an interest in the newfangled Japanese transistor radios, specially the ones with shortwave. Customs duty was high on non-British goods, and a friend worked on the docks, used to come home with genuine looking Rinso boxes (a laundry detergent). Rip open the box, and wrapped in the Manila Times or somesuch was a brand new Japanese shortwave etc. -- Peter Kerr bodger School of Music chandler University of Auckland New Zealand neo-Luddite ###### From: tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Date: 4 Dec 1998 20:31:18 GMT Organization: Mechanist Industries Lines: 19 Message-ID: <749gqm$c2d3@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> <73tht4$3cv$1@llama.teragen.com.au> <3662A9A5.8E1A6E79@iweb.net.au> Reply-To: tph@rmi.net NNTP-Posting-Host: cs0053.eld.ford.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!141.211.144.13!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!jobone!dailyplanet.srl.ford.com!eccws1.dearborn.ford.com!longhorn!tph Tomasz Gorka (tommyg@iweb.net.au) wrote: : George Durbridge wrote: : > : And you know what? You try to tell it to kids these days, and they : > : don't believe you. : how dare thee steal the punch line from "four yorkshiremen"! Four Yorkshiremen? You were lucky. The best we could do was four New Yorkers. -- Tom Harrington --------- tph@rmii.com -------- http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph "There is no national 'ism'. There is no sole religion. These are ideas of the past, they don't work here anymore." -Poi Dog Pondering Cookie's Revenge: ftp://ftp.rmi.net/pub2/tph/cookie/cookies-revenge.sit.hqx ###### From: Ariel Scolnicov Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: 08 Dec 1998 10:09:15 +0200 Organization: NetVision Israel Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <73d5q8$t7u$1@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <86u2zpg54h.fsf@home.com> <3659E35F.6BBD3B71@trailing-edge.com> <86ww4lu2zb.fsf@home.com> <365AC8DF.4DAE@gazonk.del> <73g7pn$8rg$1@bomb.dynamite.com.au> <365C1B70.1CE3@gazonk.del> <73tht4$3cv$1@llama.teragen.com.au> <3662A9A5.8E1A6E79@iweb.net.au> <749gqm$c2d3@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bioserv.compugen.co.il X-Trace: news.netvision.net.il 913104634 11438 194.90.227.153 (8 Dec 1998 08:10:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@netvision.net.il NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Dec 1998 08:10:34 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news-peer.gip.net!news-penn.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-feed.netvision.net.il!194.90.1.15.MISMATCH!news!not-for-mail tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) writes: > Tomasz Gorka (tommyg@iweb.net.au) wrote: > > > : George Durbridge wrote: > > : > : And you know what? You try to tell it to kids these days, and they > : > : don't believe you. > > : how dare thee steal the punch line from "four yorkshiremen"! > > Four Yorkshiremen? You were lucky. The best we could do was four > New Yorkers. > FOUR New Yorkers? We counted ourselves lucky if we got TWO and could use the plural. -- Ariel Scolnicov ###### From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: 9 Dec 1998 20:31:40 GMT Message-ID: <74mmnc$4l7$6@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: man-178.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: irk.zetnet.co.uk 913235500 4775 194.247.40.226 (9 Dec 1998 20:31:40 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Dec 1998 20:31:40 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Lines: 10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1998-12-08 ariels@compugen.co.il said: :FOUR New Yorkers? We counted ourselves lucky if we got TWO and :could use the plural. You had a plural? You were lucky. I only ever had a singular. I was lucky even to get a past tense. -- Communa (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) -- you know soft spoken changes nothing ###### From: colincampbell@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 23:50:14 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 21 Message-ID: <74n2bl$1mp$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <74mmnc$4l7$6@irk.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.142.50.74 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Dec 09 23:50:14 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x10.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 139.142.50.74 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!masternews.telia.net!news-nyc.telia.net!feeder.qis.net!netnews.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <74mmnc$4l7$6@irk.zetnet.co.uk>, lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > > > On 1998-12-08 ariels@compugen.co.il said: > :FOUR New Yorkers? We counted ourselves lucky if we got TWO and > :could use the plural. > > You had a plural? You were lucky. I only ever had a singular. I was > lucky even to get a past tense. > -- > Communa (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) -- you know soft spoken changes nothing > With all the stress today, I can only live in the present, tense. -- Ecc. 12:13-14 -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### From: Richard Lamb Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,aus.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:58:20 -0600 Organization: Earth Lines: 27 Message-ID: <366F7F1C.68833F52@flash.net> References: <74mmnc$4l7$6@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <74n2bl$1mp$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Reply-To: lamb01@flash.net NNTP-Posting-Host: p63.amax2.dialup.sat1.flash.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: "Richard Lamb" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-FLASHNET (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail colincampbell@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > In article <74mmnc$4l7$6@irk.zetnet.co.uk>, > lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > > > > > > On 1998-12-08 ariels@compugen.co.il said: > > :FOUR New Yorkers? We counted ourselves lucky if we got TWO and > > :could use the plural. > > > > You had a plural? You were lucky. I only ever had a singular. I was > > lucky even to get a past tense. > > -- > > Communa (lisard@zetnet.co.uk) -- you know soft spoken changes nothing > > > > With all the stress today, I can only live in the present, tense. > > -- > Ecc. 12:13-14 > > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own I shall have given up on all that. and lived in future perfect. ###### From: joseph61.SPAM?NO!@SERIOUSLY.ix.netcom.com (The Guanomonger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Missing Megabyte Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:41:04 GMT Organization: Land of Delinquency Lines: 8 Message-ID: <3676d1c1.8161470@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <74mmnc$4l7$6@irk.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ali-ca12-57.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Dec 13 2:42:55 PM PST 1998 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ix.netcom.com!news Startling the yaks lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: >You had a plural? You were lucky. I only ever had a singular. I was >lucky even to get a past tense. The only thing we could afford was a used pluperfect subjunctive.