Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72aeru$h4e$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <72c3ud$ntb$2@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net> Reply-To: sarr@umich.edu Organization: University of Michigan Subject: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) From: sarr@engin.umich.edu (Sarr J. Blumson) Lines: 15 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:28:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.211.43.166 X-Trace: news.itd.umich.edu 910794508 141.211.43.166 (Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:28:28 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:28:28 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!sarr In article <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net>, wrote: > >Sigh! The proper name for the caret was up-arrow. For the terminally young, "proper" means that's how it printed on a 1964 vintage Model 35 Teletype. This may actually be one of the differences between the 1962(?) and 1968(?) [I probably have the years wrong] ASCII standards. -- -------- Sarr Blumson sarr@umich.edu voice: +1 734 764 0253 home: +1 734 665 9591 ITD, University of Michigan http://www-personal.umich.edu/~sarr/ 519 W William, Ann Arbor, MI 48103-4943 ###### From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Date: 11 Nov 1998 12:42:36 -0600 Organization: none Lines: 14 Message-ID: <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com> References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72c3ud$ntb$2@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.taronga.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!ultraneo.neosoft.com!bonkers!not-for-mail In article , Sarr J. Blumson wrote: >For the terminally young, "proper" means that's how it printed on a 1964 >vintage Model 35 Teletype. This may actually be one of the differences >between the 1962(?) and 1968(?) [I probably have the years wrong] ASCII >standards. That and back-arrow (_). -- This is The Reverend Peter da Silva's Boring Sig File - there are no references to Wolves, Kibo, Discordianism, or The Church of the Subgenius in this document "The GCOS GERTS interface is so bad that a description here is inappropriate. Anyone seeking to use this interface should seek divine guidance." ###### From: "Chris Ward" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:48:46 -0500 Organization: IDT (Best News In The World) Lines: 14 Message-ID: <72cmbv$ca3@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72c3ud$ntb$2@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-21.ts-1-bay.hob.idt.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!nntp.farm.idt.net!news Peter da Silva wrote in message <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com>... >Sarr J. Blumson wrote: >>For the terminally young, "proper" means that's how it printed on a 1964 >>vintage Model 35 Teletype. This may actually be one of the differences >>between the 1962(?) and 1968(?) [I probably have the years wrong] ASCII >>standards. > >That and back-arrow (_). > I remember that. It was used in several languages available on the 10 as an assignment operator (Focal? AID? Joss?), and was certainly more clear to non-Fortran educated persons.... ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com> Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com Message-ID: <3649f3ed.0@news.wizvax.net> Date: 11 Nov 1998 15:30:37 -0500 X-Trace: 11 Nov 1998 15:30:37 -0500, dbit.dbit.com Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!howland.erols.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.wizvax.net!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!wilson In article <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com>, Peter da Silva wrote: >In article , >Sarr J. Blumson wrote: >>For the terminally young, "proper" means that's how it printed on a 1964 >>vintage Model 35 Teletype. This may actually be one of the differences >>between the 1962(?) and 1968(?) [I probably have the years wrong] ASCII >>standards. > >That and back-arrow (_). Was the horrible Altmode confusion part of the ASCII spec, or was it Teletype Corp's fault? Originally Altmode (which had its own key, I think it corresponds to } in the new ASCII although it may have varied) was different from Escape (CTRL/SHIFT/K), which meant that TECO had to be patched depending on what flavor of terminal you had. John Wilson D Bit ###### From: Bill Westfield Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,alt.lang.teco Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Date: 11 Nov 1998 16:22:51 -0800 Organization: Cisco Systems, Inc. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <5490hhvjxg.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com> <3649f3ed.0@news.wizvax.net> <3649BCC2.5ADD22E2@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: flipper.cisco.com X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!212.63.192.161.MISMATCH!newshub.bart.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.wli.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news-master.cisco.com!not-for-mail Some older terminals may have no ESCape key, but instead a key labelled ALTMODE or PREFIX which sends TECO a character whose ASCII value is 175 or 176. In such a case, TECO will treat these characters as if they were typed in as an ESCape (octal 33), provided lower to upper case conversion is enabled. Ah hah! So that's where the Hazeltine-2000 terminal (worshipped by all us high school hackers in the mid-70s) got the idea to use tilde as the lead-in character for cursor positioning and such! BillW -- (remove spam food from return address) ###### Message-ID: <3649BCC2.5ADD22E2@trailing-edge.com> From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.0 DEC 3000 Model 300L) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,alt.lang.teco Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com> <3649f3ed.0@news.wizvax.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:35:14 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.232.144.27 X-Trace: audrey2.cais.com 910820634 198.232.144.27 (Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:43:54 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:43:54 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!howland.erols.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news-pen-3.sprintlink.net!news-in-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!199.0.216.204.MISMATCH!audrey2.cais.com!not-for-mail John Wilson wrote: > > In article <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com>, > Peter da Silva wrote: > >That and back-arrow (_). > > Was the horrible Altmode confusion part of the ASCII spec, or was > it Teletype Corp's fault? Originally Altmode (which had its own key, > I think it corresponds to } in the new ASCII although it may have varied) > was different from Escape (CTRL/SHIFT/K), which meant that TECO had to be > patched depending on what flavor of terminal you had. For some reason, I though Altmode corresponded with what is now ~ (tilde). Looking this up in the TECO-11 V40 manual, I see that we're both right - it's a floor wax *and* a dessert topping! : Some older terminals may have no ESCape key, but instead a key labelled ALTMODE or PREFIX which sends TECO a character whose ASCII value is 175 or 176. In such a case, TECO will treat these characters as if they were typed in as an ESCape (octal 33), provided lower to upper case conversion is enabled. Note that many newer DEC terminals - those using DEC LK201 descended keyboards - don't have a proper escape key, but that the tilde key is easily pressed into operation as a substitute with TECO. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers From: eric@fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) X-Nntp-Posting-Host: fudge.uchicago.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) X-Newsposter: Pnews 4.0-test51 (15 Jan 97) Organization: The University of Chicago References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com> <3649f3ed.0@news.wizvax.net> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:07:12 GMT Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uwvax!uchinews!not-for-mail In article <3649f3ed.0@news.wizvax.net>, John Wilson wrote: > Was the horrible Altmode confusion part of the ASCII spec, or was > it Teletype Corp's fault? Originally Altmode (which had its own key, > I think it corresponds to } in the new ASCII although it may have varied) > was different from Escape (CTRL/SHIFT/K), which meant that TECO had to be > patched depending on what flavor of terminal you had. In the original ASCII specification (see CACM, August, 1963) ESC was the position now occupied by ~ (for compatibility with an existing Department of Defense 8-bit code), and the character now used for ESC was S3 (one of eight information separators, S0...S7). The other control characters in the upper positions were ACK (now |), an unassigned control function (now }), and DEL (still DEL). The revision of ASCII could have maintained compatibility with the old ESC by leaving out a punctuation mark, and one of the proposed revisions did work this way (see CACM, April, 1965), but in the end ESC was moved, apparently so that non-English languages could replace punctuation with letters and still have a contiguous range of characters assigned to the alphabet. eric ###### From: cchd@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Followup-To: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Date: 12 Nov 1998 03:21:52 GMT Organization: La Trobe University Lines: 12 Message-ID: <72dk8g$u2b$1@news.latrobe.edu.au> References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72c3ud$ntb$2@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com> <72cmbv$ca3@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au X-Trace: news.latrobe.edu.au 910840912 30795 131.172.12.11 (12 Nov 1998 03:21:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.latrobe.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Nov 1998 03:21:52 GMT X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!diablo.theplanet.net!london-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.latrobe.edu.au!lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au!cchd Chris Ward (ccw@idt.net) wrote: : I remember that. It was used in several languages available on the 10 as an : assignment operator (Focal? AID? Joss?), and was certainly more clear to : non-Fortran educated persons.... Far more importantly :-) it was the assignment operator for Bliss-10.... -- Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer to be played Melbourne Australia 3083 | in the air, the sky would be green" ###### From: arargh@arargh.com (Arargh!) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 05:06:55 GMT Organization: Arargh!! Lines: 15 Message-ID: <364b6ca9.73084870@news.mcs.net> References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com> <3649f3ed.0@news.wizvax.net> <3649BCC2.5ADD22E2@trailing-edge.com> <5490hhvjxg.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> Reply-To: arargh@arargh.com NNTP-Posting-Host: jwright.pr.mcs.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntp.abs.net!news.mcs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!not-for-mail On 11 Nov 1998 16:22:51 -0800, Bill Westfield wrote: >Ah hah! So that's where the Hazeltine-2000 terminal (worshipped by all >us high school hackers in the mid-70s) got the idea to use tilde as the >lead-in character for cursor positioning and such! > >BillW I think I still have a working 2000-C. I can't imagine why I kept that boat anchor. arargh ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 98 12:08:30 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 35 Message-ID: <72ek70$bs7$1@ligarius.ultra.net> References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72c3ud$ntb$2@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com> <72cmbv$ca3@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <72dk8g$u2b$1@news.latrobe.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: d4.dial-11.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 12 Nov 1998 12:27:12 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!205.231.236.10!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.ultranet.com!d4 In article <72dk8g$u2b$1@news.latrobe.edu.au>, cchd@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) wrote: >Chris Ward (ccw@idt.net) wrote: [about back arrow character] >: I remember that. It was used in several languages available >:on the 10 as an >: assignment operator (Focal? AID? Joss?), and was certainly more clear to >: non-Fortran educated persons.... > >Far more importantly :-) it was the assignment operator for Bliss-10.... > I thought no swearing was allowed :-). IIR, backarrow was also used in MACRO-10 as a bit shift operator. Backarrow was also the character used to separate the input and output phrases on a command line (it was later replace by equal sign). For instance, in the olden days, to copy a file from one place to another one would type: R PIP FOO.OUT_FOO.IN ^C That underscore really should be a backarrow. I mourned the day that character was lost because I used it to teach newbies how to figure out which side was the output side. /BAH /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: albaugh@agames.com (Mike Albaugh) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,alt.lang.teco Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Followup-To: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,alt.lang.teco Date: 12 Nov 1998 17:01:11 GMT Organization: Atari Games Corporation Lines: 30 Message-ID: <72f48n$4hb$2@void.agames.com> References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <5490hhvjxg.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: java.agames.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!xfer.kren.ne.kr!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!newshub1-work.home.com!void.agames.com!albaugh Bill Westfield (billw@flipper.cisco.com) wrote: : Some older terminals may have no ESCape key, but instead : a key labelled ALTMODE or PREFIX which sends TECO a character : whose ASCII value is 175 or 176. In such a case, TECO : will treat these characters as if they were typed in as an : ESCape (octal 33), provided lower to upper case conversion is : enabled. : Ah hah! So that's where the Hazeltine-2000 terminal (worshipped by all : us high school hackers in the mid-70s) got the idea to use tilde as the : lead-in character for cursor positioning and such! _Worshipped_?!? How? Did you sacrifice a goat to them daily. That's about what it took to keep those ^&%*& things running :-) Or maybe U.C. Berkeley just got a really bad batch. My most vivid memory of them (as an "Instrument Shop" guy tasked with keeping all the terminals in Cory Hall running, just 'cuz I mentioned having rebuilt a couple Model 15's :-) was that the problems were most often with the core memory, and that was split over two boards, and even a _good_ system wouldn't run if either of those boards was on an extender. Can you say "Swap till you drop"? :-) That said, I'd wager that they were the only video terminal ever hooked to a machine with tubes and a drum main- memory, via a bit-boffing software UART... :-) Mike | albaugh@agames.com, speaking only for myself ###### From: J. Chris Hausler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 98 16:06:55 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <5490hhvjxg.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.93.4.2 X-To: Bill Westfield Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.delphi.com!news Bill Westfield writes: >Ah hah! So that's where the Hazeltine-2000 terminal (worshipped by all >us high school hackers in the mid-70s) got the idea to use tilde as the >lead-in character for cursor positioning and such! > >BillW My little family of H1420's had a dip switch option as to which code to use as the "lead-in" character, tilde or escape Chris ###### From: J. Chris Hausler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 98 16:09:21 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72c3ud$ntb$2@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com> <72cmbv$ca3@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <72dk8g$u2b$1@news.latrobe.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.93.4.2 X-To: Huw Davies Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.delphi.com!news Huw Davies writes: >Chris Ward (ccw@idt.net) wrote: >: I remember that. It was used in several languages available on the 10 as an >: assignment operator (Focal? AID? Joss?), and was certainly more clear to >: non-Fortran educated persons.... > >Far more importantly :-) it was the assignment operator for Bliss-10.... Not to mention the Algol I first learned (Hi Art :-) Chris ###### From: Bill Westfield Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,alt.lang.teco Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Date: 12 Nov 1998 23:07:04 -0800 Organization: Cisco Systems, Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <54iugkax5z.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <5490hhvjxg.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> <72f48n$4hb$2@void.agames.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: flipper.cisco.com X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news-master.cisco.com!not-for-mail [Hazeltine-2000] _Worshipped_?!? How? Did you sacrifice a goat to them daily. That's about what it took to keep those ^&%*& things running :-) Or maybe U.C. Berkeley just got a really bad batch. Heh. I do recall they had quite a bit of electronics in there. At LIRICS, there were no PTYS available to "us", so we used to do tricks with the "transmit screen" capability. There was a "game" called a can-war, where students (who all shared a PPN per school) would try to cancel each other jobs (REALLY frowned upon if not pre-arranged!) I wrote a macro hack that would find the other jobs logged in (there was a UUO for this, IIRC), display it on the screen together with the CANCEL comamnd and a "continue", start the transmit screen, and exit. It was a cute hack. We lost, once, which was very impressive... BillW -- (remove spam food from return address) ###### From: inwap@best.com (Smith and O'Halloran) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,alt.lang.teco Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Date: 13 Nov 1998 00:26:35 -0800 Organization: Chez INWAP (people, computers, cats) Message-ID: <72gqfr$29h$1@shell3.ba.best.com> References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <3649f3ed.0@news.wizvax.net> <3649BCC2.5ADD22E2@trailing-edge.com> <5490hhvjxg.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: shell3.ba.best.com X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 910945600 12766 inwap@206.184.139.134 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.xcom.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!news2.best.com!news3.best.com!nntp1.ba.best.com!not-for-mail In article <5490hhvjxg.fsf@flipper.cisco.com>, Bill Westfield wrote: >Ah hah! So that's where the Hazeltine-2000 terminal (worshipped by all >us high school hackers in the mid-70s) got the idea to use tilde as the >lead-in character for cursor positioning and such! It surprized the heck out of me when moved the H2000 from one room to another, plugged it in, and had yesterday's SYSTAT show up on the screen. The durn thang had core memory! "Three Days Of The Condor". Robert Redford. PDP-8. Hazeltine 2000. -Joe -- INWAP.COM is Joe and Sally Smith, John and Chris O'Halloran and our cats See http://www.inwap.com/ for PDP-10, "ReBoot", "Shadow Raiders"/"War Planets" ###### From: "Aguinaldo Campos Jr" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:36:10 -0200 Organization: Internetcom On-Line Ltda. News Site Lines: 19 Message-ID: <72h5nc$km7@www001.itanet.com.br> References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com><5490hhvjxg.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> <72f48n$4hb$2@void.agames.com> <54iugkax5z.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ita7058.itanet.com.br X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.tli.de!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.14.7.19!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!200.255.253.242!newsfeed.embratel.net.br!news.itanet.com.br!usenet Good day that one that we fresh students could not use PDP-10 at University and we did a fortran program that allocated a terminal in a remote room in an infinite loop reading all the logins and passwords and writing back to a file and reporting to the user that he entered a worng password and then deallocating tty. Bill Westfield escreveu na mensagem <54iugkax5z.fsf@flipper.cisco.com>... > [Hazeltine-2000] > > _Worshipped_?!? How? Did you sacrifice a goat to them > daily. That's about what it took to keep those ^&%*& things > running :-) Or maybe U.C. Berkeley just got a really bad batch. > >Heh. I do recall they had quite a bit of electronics in there. >At LIRICS, there were no PTYS available to "us", ... ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,alt.lang.teco Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <3649BCC2.5ADD22E2@trailing-edge.com> <5490hhvjxg.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> <72gqfr$29h$1@shell3.ba.best.com> Reply-To: sarr@umich.edu Organization: University of Michigan From: sarr@engin.umich.edu (Sarr J. Blumson) Lines: 16 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:37:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.211.43.166 X-Trace: news.itd.umich.edu 910967865 141.211.43.166 (Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:37:45 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:37:45 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!sibyl.sunrise.ch!news-sol.swissonline.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!sarr In article <72gqfr$29h$1@shell3.ba.best.com>, Smith and O'Halloran wrote: > >It surprized the heck out of me when moved the H2000 from one room >to another, plugged it in, and had yesterday's SYSTAT show up on the >screen. The durn thang had core memory! Hard though it may be to believe now, back then core was the _cheap_ form of memory. -- -------- Sarr Blumson sarr@umich.edu voice: +1 734 764 0253 home: +1 734 665 9591 ITD, University of Michigan http://www-personal.umich.edu/~sarr/ 519 W William, Ann Arbor, MI 48103-4943 ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers,alt.lang.teco Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Date: 13 Nov 1998 16:20:19 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 24 Message-ID: <72hm83$ipq@top.mitre.org> References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <3649f3ed.0@news.wizvax.net> <3649BCC2.5ADD22E2@trailing-edge.com> <5490hhvjxg.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> <72gqfr$29h$1@shell3.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.shore.net!uunet!in5.uu.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris inwap@best.com (Smith and O'Halloran) writes: >It surprized the heck out of me when moved the H2000 from one room >to another, plugged it in, and had yesterday's SYSTAT show up on the >screen. The durn thang had core memory! There have been some really wierd terminal designs running around the industry. One of the odder ones was used in the HDS ("Human Designed System") series that used the concepts of APL as its design base, including the ability to store a latent expression that was executed whenever the terminal was powered on. The documentation warned about the dangers of setting the latent expression to a string that disabled the interfaces. I'm not sure if it used core or not; my manual for it is long gone. Oh yes -- the documentation used the term "latent expression"; it isn't my invention. And for the APL-challenged readership, in an APL workspace you could define an APL string that was executed whenever the workspace was loaded, somewhat analogous to the "AutoOpen" macro in MS Office documents. This was called the "latent expression". Joe Morris ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 21:47:37 +0100 Message-ID: From: peterk@combo.ganesha.com (Dr. Peter Kittel) Subject: Re: ASCII (was: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?) Reply-To: peterk @ combo.ganesha.com References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72c3ud$ntb$2@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com> <72cmbv$ca3@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> X-Newsreader: rn7.bas Lines: 15 Organization: Private Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.ecrc.net!blackbush.xlink.net!ganesha.ganesha.com!shorter!combo.ganesha.com!peterk In article <72cmbv$ca3@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> "Chris Ward" writes: >Peter da Silva wrote in message <72clqs$9ak@bonkers.taronga.com>... >> >>That and back-arrow (_). >> >I remember that. It was used in several languages available on the 10 as an >assignment operator (Focal? AID? Joss?), and was certainly more clear to >non-Fortran educated persons.... Some Algol implementations used the back arrow for variable assignments, instead of the two-character version (like in Pascal) a:=b+5; -- Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail: Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ peterk @ combo.ganesha.com