From: `David O'Bedlam' Subject: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> Organization: Gehenna-By-The-Sea Lines: 22 Message-ID: <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.201.34.8 X-Trace: news6.ispnews.com 908187005 207.201.34.8 (Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:10:05 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:10:05 EDT Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:10:05 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!hub1.ispnews.com!news6.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail As much as the angry adolescent (still) in me likes the idea of a total meltdown of "Western Civ", I'm a little dubious about all the hoopla this thing is getting. What would be the *likely* social/economic/political outcome of this Y2K thing, given that "the Thrones and Dominions" would've made sure to upgrade those things their rule depends on and to set up workarounds that'd help 'em stay in power (distributing food to folks whose neighborhood Safeways close, for example)? Is there a pressing reason to stockpile pistols and canned goods, or would there just be a few million less AOLers posting jpegs? If this can be explained to me, I think you old-timers can do it. David -- "Say you have a flock of sheep." -- Jonah Thomas ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Date: 12 Oct 1998 22:13:29 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 49 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 `David O'Bedlam' writes: > > As much as the angry adolescent (still) in me likes the idea of > a total meltdown of "Western Civ", :-) > I'm a little dubious about all > the hoopla this thing is getting. Basic misstrust of talking heads is there. He has developing a brain :-). > What would be the *likely* social/economic/political outcome of > this Y2K thing, given that "the Thrones and Dominions" would've Hmmm, Y2K reads its ugly head yet again. > If this can be explained to me, I think you old-timers can do it. We certainly have discussed it. I can't remember us aggreeing. For some of the stuff that got said, go to: http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.folklore.computers/ Then pick any of these files: 19971210_Y2K_Nit 19980102_Y2K_strikes_again 19980123_How_they_re_really_dealing_with_Y2K 19980312_Year_2000_bug_and_planes 19980507_Y2K_False_Alarm_or_Programmers_LOOT_the_Public_Purse 19980923_Parts_of_a_program_that_break_in_Y2K Also for some more insights: 19980115_Paranoia_in_Programming 19980117_Why_horrible_code -- *** New home Addresses Mail and Web *** home: neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Microsoft is Software Communism, Fight for GNU Freedom! ###### From: "Samael" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:36:54 +0100 Lines: 42 Message-ID: <36233b57.0@127.0.0.1> References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.126.86.216 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!colt.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.itg.net.uk!127.0.0.1!127.0.0.1 `David O'Bedlam' wrote in message <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com>... > > > >As much as the angry adolescent (still) in me likes the idea of >a total meltdown of "Western Civ", I'm a little dubious about all >the hoopla this thing is getting. > >What would be the *likely* social/economic/political outcome of >this Y2K thing, given that "the Thrones and Dominions" would've >made sure to upgrade those things their rule depends on and to >set up workarounds that'd help 'em stay in power (distributing >food to folks whose neighborhood Safeways close, for example)? >Is there a pressing reason to stockpile pistols and canned goods, >or would there just be a few million less AOLers posting jpegs? > >If this can be explained to me, I think you old-timers can do it. There are two main groups of people who will cause trouble over the Y2K code. 1)Those utilities in the Eastern Bloc/3rd world who cannot afford to change the code that runs their reactors/payroll/etc. When they collapse, massive aid packages will be set up to get the countries working again. Most of these countries are not as deperndent on technology as the more technologised (and rich enough to hire all the programmers they need) western countries are. They shouldn't be too badly off. 2) Those shmucks who are so panicked about the end of the world that they take all their money out of the banks so it doesn't vanish and thereby cause the international banking system to collapse. I expect most people to be too lazy to do this, so hopefully it won't cause a problem. The only problem will be if one bank falls, people will think there really _is_ a problem and this could cause a domino effect. Samael ###### From: p.h.s.3@watdcs.uwaterloo.ca (phs3) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:56:35 GMT Lines: 18 Message-ID: <700ss7$12r$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> <36233b57.0@127.0.0.1> NNTP-Posting-Host: akphs.erols.com X-Trace: autumn.news.rcn.net 908326599 1115 207.96.8.238 (14 Oct 1998 00:56:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Oct 1998 00:56:39 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!master.news.rcn.net!the-smith-pc In article <36233b57.0@127.0.0.1>, "Samael" wrote: >2) Those shmucks who are so panicked about the end of the world that they >take all their money out of the banks so it doesn't vanish and thereby cause >the international banking system to collapse. You forgot: 3) Those folks who aren't schmucks, aren't panicked about the end of the world, but who figure that there are enough who are that a market crash is likely, and thus take all of their money out of the market at least, perhaps banks as well, so they can buy back in at the bottom. No point in being a martyr, eh? ..phsiii Remove dots from userid portion of From: to reply. root@localhost ###### From: tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Date: 22 Oct 1998 17:41:56 GMT Organization: Mechanist Industries Lines: 27 Message-ID: <70nqp4$at21@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> <36233b57.0@127.0.0.1> Reply-To: tph@rmi.net NNTP-Posting-Host: cs0053.eld.ford.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!jobone!dailyplanet.srl.ford.com!eccws1.dearborn.ford.com!longhorn!tph Samael (samael@dial.pipex.com) wrote: : There are two main groups of people who will cause trouble over the Y2K : code. : 2) Those shmucks who are so panicked about the end of the world that they : take all their money out of the banks so it doesn't vanish and thereby cause : the international banking system to collapse. So in other words, it's possible that we'll have severe problems in 2000 due to lingering bugs in the mental software carried by millions of people. If enough of 'em _think_ there will be a problem, this worry may in itself be enough to cause one. Forecasts of doom in 2000 are self-fulfilling prophecies; if the doomsayers convince enough people that they're right, then they will _become_ right, regardless of the merits of their arguments. Scary. Anybody want to sign up to track down and fix the Y2K bugs in people's brains? Keep in mind that the source code is _not_ available, documentation is sketchy at best, and that tools like compilers and assemblers will be no help at all. -- Tom Harrington --------- tph@rmii.com -------- http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph "Freedom of speech is a figure of speech, the sure way to lose it is if you don't use it." -John Wesley Harding Cookie's Revenge: ftp://ftp.rmi.net/pub2/tph/cookie/cookies-revenge.sit.hqx ###### Date: 22 Oct 98 16:26:05 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> <36233b57.0@127.0.0.1> <70nqp4$at21@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> Message-ID: <942.599T262T9863771@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 23 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com X-Trace: 22 Oct 1998 17:39:07 -0700, news.skybus.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!204.244.4.2!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.101 In article <70nqp4$at21@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) writes: >Scary. Anybody want to sign up to track down and fix the Y2K bugs in >people's brains? Keep in mind that the source code is _not_ available, >documentation is sketchy at best, and that tools like compilers and >assemblers will be no help at all. Even worse, most people probably don't want the bugs fixed. But if I could get in there and tinker, there are lots of other things I'd like to work on as well - like that goofy collating sequence that puts 0 after 9. (I'll never forgive AT&T for perpetuating it on push-button telephones, by turning the logical and standardized calculator keypad upside down - sort of.) Then there are the various other bugs in the brains of Bosnian Serbs, Homass (sp?), left-wing extremists, right-wing extremists... -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: Ariel Scolnicov Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Date: 23 Oct 1998 15:16:49 +0200 Organization: NetVision LTD. Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> <36233b57.0@127.0.0.1> <70nqp4$at21@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bioserv.compugen.co.il X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-feed.netvision.net.il!news.NetVision.net.il!not-for-mail tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) writes: >[...] > > Scary. Anybody want to sign up to track down and fix the Y2K bugs in > people's brains? Keep in mind that the source code is _not_ available, > documentation is sketchy at best, and that tools like compilers and > assemblers will be no help at all. A related problem is convincing them that 2000 *will* be a leap year. I myself will come out of hiding only on February 30 2000. ###### From: hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:36:57 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> <36233b57.0@127.0.0.1> <70nqp4$at21@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-38lcgmc.dialup.mindspring.com X-Server-Date: 24 Oct 1998 00:36:57 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs In article , Ariel Scolnicov wrote: >A related problem is convincing them that 2000 *will* be a leap year. >I myself will come out of hiding only on February 30 2000. LOL! -- Howard S Shubs The Denim Adept ###### From: "Andrew Cadley" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:11:30 -0000 Organization: University of East Anglia, Norwich, Norfolk, NR47TJ, UK Message-ID: <70u1fe$n76@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> <36233b57.0@127.0.0.1> <70nqp4$at21@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: oak6d.vlg1.uea.ac.uk X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2120.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!server1.netnews.ja.net!cpca3.uea.ac.uk!news Howard S Shubs wrote in message ... :In article , Ariel Scolnicov : wrote: : :>A related problem is convincing them that 2000 *will* be a leap year. :>I myself will come out of hiding only on February 30 2000. You still won't be safe. Win95 has just demonstrated a *fantastic* new time related bug; winding the clock back an hour. At 2:00 it happily told me it was resetting the clock to 1:00 to account for daylight savings time. Fine, until and hour later when it sprung to life again to inform me the clock was being changed back to 1:00 to account for daylight savings time. :) I'm off to find a cave... AndyC ###### From: hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:33:34 -0600 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> <36233b57.0@127.0.0.1> <70nqp4$at21@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <70u1fe$n76@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-38lcgt4.dialup.mindspring.com X-Server-Date: 25 Oct 1998 07:33:35 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!europa.clark.net!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs In article <70u1fe$n76@cpca3.uea.ac.uk>, "Andrew Cadley" wrote: >Fine, until and hour later when it sprung to life again to inform me the >clock was being changed back to 1:00 to account for daylight savings time. Right now, I'm less than 28 minutes from seeing if MacOS 8.5 will do the same thing... It -did- set back to 01:00, it seems. -- Howard S Shubs The Denim Adept ###### From: Louis RAPHAEL Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Date: 25 Oct 1998 07:37:25 GMT Organization: Societe pour la promotion du petoncle vert Lines: 15 Message-ID: <70ukfl$5kg@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> <36233b57.0@127.0.0.1> <70nqp4$at21@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <70u1fe$n76@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: lisa.cs.mcgill.ca User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971127 (UNIX) (SunOS/4.1.4 (sun4m)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.idt.net!newsin.iconnet.net!feed2.nntp.acc.ca!feed.nntp.acc.ca!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.mcgill.ca!cs.mcgill.ca!raphael Andrew Cadley wrote: : Fine, until and hour later when it sprung to life again to inform me the : clock was being changed back to 1:00 to account for daylight savings time. : :) What morons who made that "useful" feature... You'd think that they would have thought to set a flag to indicate that the clock has already been brought back once. Obviously, however, they didn't expect machines running Win95 to be in 24 hour service, considering how unstable an OS it is, so they didn't worry about the problem... Louis ###### From: rbaconl@aol.com (RBaconL) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 26 Oct 1998 23:47:23 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <70nqp4$at21@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> Message-ID: <19981026184723.12587.00002055@ng85.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >Anybody want to sign up to track down and fix the Y2K bugs in >people's brains? Keep in mind that the source code is _not_ available, >documentation is sketchy at best, and that tools like compilers and >assemblers will be no help at all. Funny. I read that last bit as hacksaws and shopvacs. I need more Moutain Dew. -Ricky ###### From: benh@lsl.co.uk (Ben Hutchings) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Y2K Bug -> Universal Chaos? Date: 28 Oct 1998 18:58:35 GMT Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd. Message-ID: <717pgr$d5j@relay.lsl.co.uk> References: <361d4c8c.10933209@news3.ibm.net> <1dgm374.dflrkx38nyybN@qtns04345.singnet.com.sg> <1AkU1.636$Gq.570@news6.ispnews.com> <36233b57.0@127.0.0.1> <70nqp4$at21@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <70u1fe$n76@cpca3.uea.ac.uk> <70ukfl$5kg@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.9.200.20 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 16 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed.icl.net!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.lsl.co.uk!benh Louis RAPHAEL (raphael@cs.mcgill.ca) wrote: : Andrew Cadley wrote: : : Fine, until and hour later when it sprung to life again to inform me the : : clock was being changed back to 1:00 to account for daylight savings time. : : :) : What morons who made that "useful" feature... You'd think that they : would have thought to set a flag to indicate that the clock has : already been brought back once. Obviously, however, they didn't expect : machines running Win95 to be in 24 hour service, considering how : unstable an OS it is, so they didn't worry about the problem... The problem is the use of local time as the system time. If system time is kept as UTC and local time is calculated from this using time- zone information, no such problems should occur.