From: Dave Babcock Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.emulators.misc Subject: IBM 1620 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:25:10 -0700 Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 22 Message-ID: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: merlin.engr.sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5 IP32) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.sgi.com!gazette.engr.sgi.com!news To all, I'm currently in the process of: 1. Creating an EXTENSIVE web site on the IBM 1620 - history, technical description, developers, documentation, photos, etc. 2. Creating a Java-based simulator which will become part of the web site. 3. Restoring an IBM 1620 Model 1 to operation. I'm looking for any information, manuals, books, spare parts, personal stories as well as the location of other IBM 1620 systems still around (in any condition). Anything or even pointers to something would be much appreciated. Thanks, Dave Babcock Volunteer, The Computer Museum History Center ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.emulators.misc Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:55:42 +0000 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 47 Message-ID: <360FDBAE.A439B200@plano.net> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> Reply-To: richmond@plano.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.44.41.31 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 907026437 R67V8VHUD291FD12CC usenet52.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) To: Dave Babcock Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Dave Babcock wrote: > > To all, > > I'm currently in the process of: > > 1. Creating an EXTENSIVE web site on the IBM 1620 - history, > technical description, developers, documentation, photos, etc. > > 2. Creating a Java-based simulator which will become part of the > web site. > > 3. Restoring an IBM 1620 Model 1 to operation. > > I'm looking for any information, manuals, books, spare parts, personal > stories as well as the location of other IBM 1620 systems still around > (in any condition). > > Anything or even pointers to something would be much appreciated. > The IBM 1620 was the first computer I ever really programmed. This was in the early 1970's, and the 1620 was *not* then the main machine of our university computing center. At that time, you would write the program on paper (sometimes even using "coding forms"), and then punch the program up on 80 column cards at a desk-sized keypunch machine. The 1620 was "open shop", which meant you would place your cards in the hopper and press the READ button yourself. After processing for a while, the 1620 would punch the output from your program on other 80 column cards. Then you took those cards to a printer in another room to have them "interpreted", i.e. printed up. (I do *not* know what kind of machine read the cards and ran the printer, but this machine was programmed with a plug board.) The machine console was a large desk, and console input/output was via an IBM selectric terminal. The console also had a good size panel with blinking lights. I recall a local whiz being able to play songs on an AM radio using the RF generated by the computer. The language I used was FORTRAN II, and since the 1620 had a hard disk drive, subroutines could be used. The book we used was _A Guide To FORTRAN Programming_, by Daniel D. McCracken. I'll bet that most every student of FORTRAN in the early 1970's used this book. I recently found a copy at a library sale, and was very happy to see this old friend again. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 29 Sep 1998 02:09:55 GMT Organization: Net Access BBS Lines: 10 Message-ID: <6upfhj$foq@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bbs.cpcn.com Originator: root@bbs.cpcn.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!netaxs.com!bbs.cpcn.com!root There's a publication, "The Annals of the History of Computers" which is an excellent history. Odds are they did a story on the 1620. You could also check "IBM's Early Computer's", though I don't think it said too much on the 1620. Libraries have books on programming the 1620. Do a catalog search on IBM 1620. Check with the IBM Archives. ###### Date: 29 Sep 98 11:02:19 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: IBM 1620 References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Message-ID: <4133.576T984T6623945@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 83 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.ecrc.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!204.244.4.2!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.112 In article <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> japarsly@my-dejanews.com (japarsly) writes: >The computer featured a card reader/punch and a electronic typewriter. Well, I wouldn't use the word "electronic". "Electric" or "electromechanical", perhaps. >I don't know if the card punch codes changed after the 1620 was >built, but I remember that you had to punch odd things on the >keypunch in order to get the 1620 to understand you. Seems like >it was # to get =, < to get (, % to get ). Probably others as well, >but its hard to remember after 23 years. Ah, the joys of changing card codes. Only the alphanumerics were guaranteed to remain the same across all machines, although a few characters like period and comma generally stayed put. There was one character for the 1620, one for the 360 line, another for the Univac 1004/1005, etc.... The trick to remember was that regardless of what the keypunch printed on the card, the key in a given position on the keyboard always punched the same combination of holes. So you could touch-type for any machine on any keypunch, as long as you knew where the characters were on a keypunch designed for the machine for which you were punching the cards. >To run your program, you had to first load the "fixed subroutines" >deck which I guess was the various math routines. These routines >apparently were expected to be loaded into fixed locations in the >lower part of memory. You would then load your object deck into >memory. The important part here was the addition tables. The 1620 did addition and subtraction by looking up partial sums in memory, rather than dedicating expensive electronics to the task. Hence its nickname CADET: "Can't Add, Doesn't Even Try." One practical joke was to replace the addition tables with scrambled cards that would cause the victim's program to give garbage results for any arithmetic. >We also had the program that played songs (badly) using the RF >interference that the machine put out). Seems like a lot of >early beatles stuff. I once heard one of these programs. It inspired me to write an equivalent for the Univac 9300 a few years later. >The little rectangles left after you punch cards don't make good >confetti. The corners are too sharp and they are small enough to >get into places where they are hard to get out. When a cow orker got married we stuffed a bunch of chips down the heater vents in his car. Chips were still coming out when he sold the car six months later. >The computer room was one of the few places in the school with >air conditioning. This was an important factor in my selection >of computers as an eventual career. Unfortunately, a lot of sites got fanatical about air conditioning. Many people seem to believe that a computer room must be COLD, not comfortable. But usually machines and people can co-exist quite happily - the trick is to keep the temperature consistent, not necessarily cryogenic. It's only under the false floor that you want it to be cooler, since that's where the machines draw their air from. (It's also a great place to keep your beer.) At some sites I'd get into "thermostat wars" with the staff - if I found the thermostat (and it wasn't behind a locked cover), I'd nudge it up to the point where I didn't need to wear a parka in the computer room. Someone else would discover the altered setting, and in horror would run it back down to its original "Arctic" setting. In one shop where I worked, we all agreed that the thermostat was set too low, but we couldn't find it. I finally found it by going outside the building and using an outside entrance to the crawl space under the computer room floor. Up until then, we had to be sure to turn the air conditioning off when we shut down the computer for the weekend. One time I forgot, and when I got back the room was so cold that my breath was condensing, and the hydraulic fluid in the disk drives had congealed. We had to power everything up and leave the disks spinning for an hour before the heads would load. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 11:39:52 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 35 Message-ID: <6uql4r$60k$1@strato.ultra.net> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d6.dial-15.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 29 Sep 1998 12:51:39 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.ultranet.com!d6 [1 unfamiliar newsgroup snipped] In article <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com>, Dave Babcock wrote: >To all, > >I'm currently in the process of: > > 1. Creating an EXTENSIVE web site on the IBM 1620 - history, > technical description, developers, documentation, photos, etc. > > 2. Creating a Java-based simulator which will become part of the > web site. > > 3. Restoring an IBM 1620 Model 1 to operation. > > >I'm looking for any information, manuals, books, spare parts, personal >stories as well as the location of other IBM 1620 systems still around >(in any condition). > >Anything or even pointers to something would be much appreciated. You may want to try to find a copy of a textbook that was written and used at Western Michigan University. It's title was: _Elementary 1620 Programs: A Collection of Elementary Programs for the IBM1620 in Machine Language and SYMBOLIC PROGRAMMING UTILIZING the MONITOR I SYSTEM with the 1311 DISK UNIT_ Prepared by Computer Center, Western Michigan University, Jack R. Meager, Director; February, 1965. /BAH Sigh! - Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: japarsly@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.emulators.misc Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:23:52 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 112 Message-ID: <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.85.133.131 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Sep 29 13:23:52 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x5.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 152.85.133.131 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.wli.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail We had an IBM 1620 computer at Oak Ridge High School, Oak Ridge TN back in 1975. Unlike most modern computers it was decimal, rather than binary and had a 20,000 Digit magnetic core memory. You could actually look into the back of the thing and see the little rings that made up each digit. The machine had a variable number length. There were flag bits associated with each digit, and you set the flag bit at the end of the number so the computer knew where to end it. The computer featured a card reader/punch and a electronic typewriter. We generally programmed in FORTRAN 2 (imagine writing a program where the only IF statement was the arimetic IF). You would start out by punching your program onto cards. I don't know if the card punch codes changed after the 1620 was built, but I remember that you had to punch odd things on the keypunch in order to get the 1620 to understand you. Seems like it was # to get =, < to get (, % to get ). Probably others as well, but its hard to remember after 23 years. Once you had the program on cards, you would read the precompiler deck into memory using the card reader. We would then read our card decks through the precompiler looking for syntax errors. The typewriter would print out the offending lines and a numerical error code, which we could look up on a printout posted on the wall. After everyone was done with the precompiler, we would load the compiler deck into memory. Everyone would then run their programs through the compiler and it would punch an object deck. To run your program, you had to first load the "fixed subroutines" deck which I guess was the various math routines. These routines apparently were expected to be loaded into fixed locations in the lower part of memory. You would then load your object deck into memory. It seems like you then had to do something with the typewriter to make it run, like setting the starting memory location. You could then hit one of the buttons to make your program run. Some of the other things that I remember. The machine had four "sense switches", which were toggle switches on the front of the machiine. You could test the status of these switches from FORTRAN, with a statement like IF SENSE SWITCH 1 (or something like that) FORTRAN 2 had verbs for each input or output device. PUNCH, TYPE, READ (for the card reader) ACCEPT (for the typewriter) The typewriter was slow enough that it was worth your while to use a special program to print your source code that took advantage of the tab stops, since most lines in FORTRAN don't have anything in the first 6 columns. One of the consequences of the variable word length was that there were certain operations that would through the machine into an infinte loop. Dividing a memory location by itself was one (070000700007 was the instruction that we liked to use). Transferring data from a memory location to the one immediately following it was another (not so sure about this one 28000080009 or 260000600007?). We kept our object decks in file drawers in the computer room and we would sometimes sabotage each others programs by replacing an instruction on one of the cards with one of these looping instructions. It was entertaining to watch the front panel lights as they cycled through each memory location. The front panel lights displayed the current opcode, memory location etc. You could use buttons on the console to single-step the computer so you could see what was going on. We also had the program that played songs (badly) using the RF interference that the machine put out). Seems like a lot of early beatles stuff. Because the machine had a magnetic core memory, you could turn if off at night. When you came back the next day you could turn it back on and start back up right where you left off. The little rectangles left after you punch cards don't make good confetti. The corners are too sharp and they are small enough to get into places where they are hard to get out. The computer room was one of the few places in the school with air conditioning. This was an important factor in my selection of computers as an eventual career. In article <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com>, Dave Babcock wrote: > To all, > > I'm currently in the process of: > > 1. Creating an EXTENSIVE web site on the IBM 1620 - history, > technical description, developers, documentation, photos, etc. > > 2. Creating a Java-based simulator which will become part of the > web site. > > 3. Restoring an IBM 1620 Model 1 to operation. > > I'm looking for any information, manuals, books, spare parts, personal > stories as well as the location of other IBM 1620 systems still around > (in any condition). > > Anything or even pointers to something would be much appreciated. > > Thanks, > Dave Babcock > Volunteer, The Computer Museum History Center > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.emulators.misc Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 29 Sep 1998 15:15:42 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 32 Message-ID: <6uqtiu$t8d@top.mitre.org> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <360FDBAE.A439B200@plano.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!nntprelay.mathworks.com!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris Charles Richmond writes: > After processing for a while, the 1620 would punch the output from >your program on other 80 column cards. Then you took those cards to a printer >in another room to have them "interpreted", i.e. printed up. (I do *not* know >what kind of machine read the cards and ran the printer, but this machine was >programmed with a plug board.) Almost certainly an IBM 407 Accounting Machine. The plugboard wiring diagram was included with the 1620 documentation kits. See the thread that was running recently in a.f.c where the use of carriage control punches in card decks was discussed. >The language I used was FORTRAN II, and since the 1620 had a hard disk drive, >subroutines could be used. The 1301 disks certainly made it more convenient (and allowed the system to be run under Monitor II) but you could use subroutines with the card-based system as well -- but they had to be included in the library deck, which made it rather hard to justify including the usual everything-but-the-kitchen-sink selection of subroutines. > The book we used was _A Guide To FORTRAN >Programming_, by Daniel D. McCracken. I'll bet that most every student of >FORTRAN in the early 1970's used this book. I recently found a copy at a >library sale, and was very happy to see this old friend again. Dan's books were rather old by the 1970s. The first FORTRAN II book of his that I recall seeing was published in 1961 or maybe 1962. (Does anyone know if he's still alive, and if so, where?) ###### From: alex*@*rockvax.rockefeller.edu (Alexandre Pechtchanski) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Organization: Rockefeller University Hospital (GCRC), New York Message-ID: <3610f96b.411138133@Rockyd> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:18:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.85.24.56 X-Trace: rockyd.rockefeller.edu 907082336 129.85.24.56 (Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:18:56 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:18:56 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!rockyd.rockefeller.edu!not-for-mail On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:23:52 GMT, japarsly@my-dejanews.com wrote in alt.folklore.computers: >We had an IBM 1620 computer at Oak Ridge High School, Oak Ridge TN back in [ snip ] >We generally programmed in FORTRAN 2 (imagine writing a program where the >only IF statement was the arimetic IF). Easily! Now _you_ imagine writing programs in language where the only logical operator is "Skip next command on condition {set|cleared}" (yes, I am talking about PDP-8 assembler [PAL]. Yes, it was a pleasure). [ When replying, remove *'s from address ] Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY ###### From: daveb@merlin.engr.sgi.com (Dave Babcock) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.emulators.misc Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 29 Sep 1998 17:09:50 GMT Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <6ur48u$2409@gazette.engr.sgi.com> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <360FDBAE.A439B200@plano.net> <6uqtiu$t8d@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: merlin.engr.sgi.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.sgi.com!gazette.engr.sgi.com!merlin.engr.sgi.com!daveb In article <6uqtiu$t8d@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: |> The 1301 disks certainly made it more convenient Actually, they were 1311 disk drives. |> Does anyone know if [Daniel D. McCracken] is still alive, and if so, where? He sure is. I just had a very nice conversation with him 2 weeks ago at the Memorial Service for Fred Gruenberger (another computer pioneer) who just passed away. Dan told an interesting story about the cover of the 1620 programming book that he and Fred had written. The cover contains a montage of 100 actual pages from the book itself, each in miniature form. The 'pages' are too small to read but it was an inside joke of the authors that they could honestly saw "You can tell a book by its cover." DaveB ###### From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 30 Sep 1998 04:15:27 GMT Organization: Net Access BBS Lines: 18 Message-ID: <6usb8v$mfk@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bbs.cpcn.com Originator: root@bbs.cpcn.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!netaxs.com!bbs.cpcn.com!root > We had an IBM 1620 computer at Oak Ridge High School, Oak Ridge TN back in > 1975. I noticed you mentioned Oak Ridge. Just out of curiosity, did you have access to any powerful computers from the AEC installations? Also, I guess by the time you were there Oak Ridge was an open city, no longer a closed military installation with all sorts of security restrictions? Does Rhone-Anderson still run everything or is that long gone? Actually, I wonder if the 1620 wasn't obsolete by 1975. Our school district had an IBM 1130 (which I believe was its replacement) in 1970. By 1975 they had HP-2000 computers. Of course for a single high school to have its own computer isn't bad, we only had but a single teletypewriter to dial in. ###### Date: 30 Sep 98 11:21:22 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: IBM 1620 References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6ut934$ar2@top.mitre.org> Message-ID: <1787.577T1120T6814937@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 35 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!204.244.4.2!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.103 In article jsaum@world.std.com (Jim Saum) writes: >It's interesting that the only multipunch card code I still remember >without consulting a reference card is that for X'00' = 12-0-1-8-9. >(X'00' is a byte of zero bits, expressed in IBM 360-era notation.) >Probably this card code stayed with me from occasional patching of 360 >object decks. We had a lot of those bytes in the aged accounts receivable cards we'd punch at one shop where I worked. There wasn't enough room to cram six months of aged amounts, along with other customer information, into 80 columns, so we punched the amounts straight from the packed decimal fields in the program, while punching the rest of the card in normal characters. This meant that the middle 30 columns of each card had a _lot_ of holes, most of them the 12-0-1-8-9 pattern produced by the zero-balance fields (or the high-order bytes of fields with small amounts). The path taken by cards in the Univac 9300 card reader caused a card to slide along the preceding card as it dropped into the stacker, and with all these holes sometimes an incoming card would catch on the previous one. If the operator wasn't quick at pausing the program, subsequent cards would pile up behind and get spit across the room. It was quite spectacular, actually. The other pattern I remember is 12-11-0-7-8-9: X'FF'. The WATFIV compiler would recognized this character (called a "zigamorph", for some reason) and disregard the remainder of the current card. This enabled you to comment each line of code, instead of having to resort to the separate "C"omment cards which were the only way to insert comments in standard FORTRAN. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.emulators.misc Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 30 Sep 1998 12:44:20 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 49 Message-ID: <6ut934$ar2@top.mitre.org> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!nntprelay.mathworks.com!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris japarsly@my-dejanews.com writes: > I don't know if the card punch codes changed >after the 1620 was built, but I remember that you had to punch odd things on >the keypunch in order to get the 1620 to understand you. Seems like it >was # to get =, < to get (, % to get ). Probably others as well, but its >hard to remember after 23 years. The 1620 used BCD coding, and its card input was prepared on an IBM 026 keypunch. Unfortunately, that's not enough of a spec to completely define the keypunch configuration, because there were two commonly-used mappings of the card codes to printed characters. Back in Ye Olde Days the 026 keypunch could produce 48 unique punch combinations directly from the keyboard (I'm ignoring the multipunch ability here). This included: 26 uppercase alpha (12-1 thru 12-9, 11-1 thru 11-9, 0-2 thru 0-9) 10 decimal digits (0 thru 9) space (no punch) - (minus) . (period) , (comma) * (asterisk) / (slash) 11 12-8-3 0-8-3 11-8-4 0-1 What about the other six characters? The punches were the same, but you could order unit record equipment (keypunches, accounting machine printwheels, etc.) with different keytop and print mechanism mappings according to your needs. The most common were the "A" (business) and "H" (scientific) character sets: A: & % # @ H: + ) ( = 12 12-8-4 0-8-4 8-3 8-4 Of course, the card reader had no interest in what was on the keytops of the card punch, or what the keypunch had printed on the card. In this thread, the earlier poster's shop was apparently using keypunches with the business character set. ObTriviaContest: I had to dig out an ancient (1960s vintage) character set reference card to make sure that I had the mappings correct. One of the things I noticed about it was a typo that in 30-odd years I had not caught: it showed the punch for the @/quote character to be "3-4". Even though I had *no* recollection of the coding for that character I knew that this was impossible; why was it so easy to catch the error? (Hint: the card codes in BCD are a proper subset of the EBCDIC card codes.) Joe Morris ###### From: dave@lassie.demon.co.uk (David Jordan) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 15:43:20 GMT Message-ID: <9809301543.04yw@lassie.demon.co.uk> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3610f96b.411138133@Rockyd> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 907199439 mail2news:23484 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-20.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net![158.152.182.191]!lassie.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: ADMaN 1.7 Copyright 1995 S.T.Brown Lines: 39 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail On Tue, 29 Sep 98, Alexandre Pechtchanski was heard to mumble in group alt.folklore.computers: > On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:23:52 GMT, japarsly@my-dejanews.com wrote in > alt.folklore.computers: > > >We had an IBM 1620 computer at Oak Ridge High School, Oak Ridge TN back in > > [ snip ] > > >We generally programmed in FORTRAN 2 (imagine writing a program where the > >only IF statement was the arimetic IF). > > Easily! Now _you_ imagine writing programs in language where the only logical > operator is "Skip next command on condition {set|cleared}" (yes, I am talking > about PDP-8 assembler [PAL]. Yes, it was a pleasure). Imagine it? I was doing it only yesterday! PICs use a similar system, the only logical operators are: btfsc f,n If bit n in register f is clear, skip next instruction. btfss f,n If bit n in register f is set, skip next instruction. decfsz f Decrement f, skip next instruction if result = 0. incfsz f Increment f, skip next instruction if result = 0. It takes a bit of getting used to because there is no instruction to simply compare two numbers and do something depending on the result. Dave. -- dave@lassie.demon.co.uk http://www.lassie.demon.co.uk jordandc@aston.ac.uk http://www.aston.ac.uk/~jordandc Amiga 4000 Cyberstorm 060/50 112MB 2GB-SCSI-II 2M-CV64 (And a Psion 3a...) ... This tagline SHAREWARE. Send $5. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: jsaum@world.std.com (Jim Saum) Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Sender: news@world.std.com (Mr Usenet Himself) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:04:52 GMT References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6ut934$ar2@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: world.std.com Organization: World @ Software Tool & Die X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.52.4.10!news-stl.cp.verio.net!typhoon.stlnet.com!uunet!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!jsaum In article <6ut934$ar2@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: > ObTriviaContest: I had to dig out an ancient (1960s vintage) character > set reference card to make sure that I had the mappings correct. One > of the things I noticed about it was a typo that in 30-odd years I had > not caught: it showed the punch for the @/quote character to be "3-4". > Even though I had *no* recollection of the coding for that character > I knew that this was impossible; why was it so easy to catch the error? > (Hint: the card codes in BCD are a proper subset of the EBCDIC card > codes.) The "3-4" coding violates the EBCDIC card code rules. At most one hole can be in rows 1-7; counting the condition of no punches in those rows, this gives 8 permissible states for the set of rows 1-7. Holes can be present or absent in any of the remaining rows (12, 11, 0, 8, and 9), yielding 2**5 = 32 states. So there are 8 * 32 = 256 permissible states for the whole set of 12 rows, corresponding to the 256 characters in the EBCDIC character set. EBCDIC-based card readers without the column binary feature would halt with a validity check after reading a card with holes in both rows 3 and 4. Barring a hardware error, the only way to create such a card is with a column-binary-equipped card punch peripheral or the multipunch feature on a keypunch. It's interesting that the only multipunch card code I still remember without consulting a reference card is that for X'00' = 12-0-1-8-9. (X'00' is a byte of zero bits, expressed in IBM 360-era notation.) Probably this card code stayed with me from occasional patching of 360 object decks. - Jim Saum ###### From: twingo@bearriver.com (Tony Wingo) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:08:49 -0800 Organization: Bear River Associates Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <6usb8v$mfk@netaxs.com> <6utl84$i31$1@nntp3.uunet.ca> <6uu4kb$r0s@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: br13.bearriver.com X-Trace: 907197038 4756 (none) 206.86.0.12 X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!newsfeed.corridex.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news1.best.com!nntp2.ba.best.com!twingo In article <6uu4kb$r0s@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >That probably was a function of what they wanted to do. The 1620 >was a character-based machine; the 1130 was a 36-bit binary system. >Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Actually, the 1130 was a 16-bit machine. I remember it fondly, as it was the machine I learned to program on back in the late '60s -t ###### From: atbowler@thinkage.on.ca (Alan Bowler) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 30 Sep 1998 16:11:48 GMT Organization: Thinkage Ltd. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <6utl84$i31$1@nntp3.uunet.ca> References: <6usb8v$mfk@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.102.11.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uunet.ca!atbowler In article <6usb8v$mfk@netaxs.com> hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) writes: > >Actually, I wonder if the 1620 wasn't obsolete by 1975. Our >school district had an IBM 1130 (which I believe was its >replacement) in 1970. By 1975 they had HP-2000 computers. >Of course for a single high school to have its own computer >isn't bad, we only had but a single teletypewriter to dial in. Yes the 1620 was generally considered obsolete by 1975, and yes prior to that the 1130 had been pushed as the replacement. (By 1975 the 1130 was obsolete too.) However, the people I knew who had used both considered the 1620 to be a step up from the the 1130. Another case of something that was "a significant technical advance over its successors?" (I believe words to that effect were orginally said about Algol-60) By 1975, the machine that really was the successor in terms of who was now using it was the PDP-11. ###### From: jsavard@tenMAPSONeerf.edmonton.ab.ca (John Savard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.emulators.misc Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:13:45 GMT Organization: Videotron Communications Ltd. Lines: 14 Message-ID: <36126659.7955716@news.prosurfr.com> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: c9169-002.prosurfr.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!212.63.192.161.MISMATCH!newshub.bart.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.insinc.net!stimpy.cal.sfl.net!news.videotron.ab.ca!not-for-mail japarsly@my-dejanews.com wrote, in part: >I don't know if the card punch codes changed >after the 1620 was built, but I remember that you had to punch odd things on >the keypunch in order to get the 1620 to understand you. Seems like it >was # to get =, < to get (, % to get ). This is because the old BCDIC card codes came in two forms, commercial and scientific. Later, with the IBM 360, EBCDIC had an improved card code, where # and % stood for # and %, and other characters were used for ( and ); that is, it mainly followed the commercial card code. John Savard http://members.xoom.com/quadibloc/index.html ###### From: jsavard@tenMAPSONeerf.edmonton.ab.ca (John Savard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.emulators.misc Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:20:35 GMT Organization: Videotron Communications Ltd. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <36126741.8187262@news.prosurfr.com> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: c9169-002.prosurfr.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.insinc.net!stimpy.cal.sfl.net!news.videotron.ab.ca!not-for-mail Dave Babcock wrote, in part: >I'm looking for any information, manuals, books, spare parts, personal >stories as well as the location of other IBM 1620 systems still around >(in any condition). You probably already have the one IBM 1620 book I have - probably the most common one. It was a large-format paperback from Prentice-Hall, with a picture of a 1620 and a core plane on the cover - which was mainly white, but with a diamond-shaped black area on the right side (the core plane was in the white area, the computer against the black background). Programming the IBM 1620, by Clarence B. Germain, or something like that, if memory serves. I bought it in the remainder pile of a Coles store that was closing up - in the late 1970s! The 1620's most famous endearing characteristic was that it had addition and multiplication tables in memory - although you could get an optional feature that speeded up the machine by allowing it to do arithmetic without them. John Savard http://members.xoom.com/quadibloc/index.html ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 30 Sep 1998 20:31:57 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Message-ID: <6uu4ft$r0b@top.mitre.org> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6ut934$ar2@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer!btnet!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!coop.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris jsaum@world.std.com (Jim Saum) writes: >It's interesting that the only multipunch card code I still remember >without consulting a reference card is that for X'00' = 12-0-1-8-9. >(X'00' is a byte of zero bits, expressed in IBM 360-era notation.) >Probably this card code stayed with me from occasional patching of 360 >object decks. There are two that I recall without problems: 0-2-8: record mark (it was actually on the 029 keytops (figs-T, I think) although I never knew why it was there) 12-11-0-7-8-9: 0xFF Note that 0xFF is one of the few punch patterns that is vertically symmetric; we used this (and the three printable characters Q, I, and X which are symmetric) on special cards that we required uses to put in front of their decks. The cards formed what we called an "absolute delimiter" which HASP (JES2) would *never* treat as data no matter how the user's JCL was written. The (successful) reason for this was to ensure that no student's input deck could swallow the deck behind it (accidentally or otherwise). The cards were provided by the computer center, and were punched as follows: cc1-7: 0xFF 0xFF Q I X 0xFF 0xFF cc74-80: 0xFF 0xFF X I Q 0xFF 0xFF so that no matter *how* the student put the QIX card on the input deck it would be recognized by the HASP reader task. Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 30 Sep 1998 20:34:19 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 15 Message-ID: <6uu4kb$r0s@top.mitre.org> References: <6usb8v$mfk@netaxs.com> <6utl84$i31$1@nntp3.uunet.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!coop.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris atbowler@thinkage.on.ca (Alan Bowler) writes: > Yes the 1620 was generally considered obsolete by 1975, and yes >prior to that the 1130 had been pushed as the replacement. (By 1975 >the 1130 was obsolete too.) However, the people I knew who had used >both considered the 1620 to be a step up from the the 1130. Another >case of something that was > "a significant technical advance over its successors?" >(I believe words to that effect were orginally said about Algol-60) That probably was a function of what they wanted to do. The 1620 was a character-based machine; the 1130 was a 36-bit binary system. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Joe Morris ###### From: af877@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Harry Dodsworth) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 1 Oct 1998 02:44:23 GMT Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Canada Lines: 29 Message-ID: <6uuqa7$933@freenet-news.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet6.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: af877@freenet6.carleton.ca (Harry Dodsworth) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.new-york.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!node17.frontiernet.net!xcski.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!af877 I think I still have one or two genuine IBM manuals for the 1620 around somewhere :-) Two books I have are: Basic Programming Concepts and The IBM 1620 Computer Daniel N. Leeson and Donald L Dimitry, Holt Rinehart and Winston Inc., 1962 Some great pictures of the console; pictures of the 1621 paper tape reader and the 1622 Card Read-Punch. Good coverage of SPS and Fortran and the internal organization of the machine. The Anatomy of a Compiler, by John A. N. Lee Van Nostrand Reinhold, 1967 I'm not sure if the National Museum of Science here in Ottawa has a 1620. I know the Science Museum in Birmingham, England has one. I felt old when I saw it in a museum and thought 'That's the machine I learnt on!' When I first started in 1965 (Queen's University, Kingston, Ont.) we used old style keypunches with round raised keys. These were almost studentproof. We replaced them with later 026 keypunches; these in turn were replaced with 029 keypunches which looked the same but had the differences in special characters which have already been noted. -- Harry Dodsworth Ottawa Ontario Canada af877@freenet.carleton.ca ---------------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 1 Oct 1998 04:03:29 GMT Organization: Net Access BBS Lines: 7 Message-ID: <6uuuuh$lmm@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bbs.cpcn.com Originator: root@bbs.cpcn.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!netaxs.com!bbs.cpcn.com!root > the 1130 was obsolete too.) However, the people I knew who had used > both considered the 1620 to be a step up from the the 1130. Another > case of something that was Why was the 1620 deemed better than the 1130? I know the 1130 had horrendous slow I/O and a cheap grade of Fortran. ###### From: bbreynolds@aol.com (BBReynolds) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 01 Oct 1998 06:37:39 GMT References: <36126741.8187262@news.prosurfr.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Message-ID: <19981001023739.00294.00001486@ngol05.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail In article <36126741.8187262@news.prosurfr.com>, jsavard@tenMAPSONeerf.edmonton.ab.ca (John Savard) writes: >You probably already have the one IBM 1620 book I have - probably the >most common one. It was a large-format paperback from Prentice-Hall, >with a picture of a 1620 and a core plane on the cover - which was >mainly white, but with a diamond-shaped black area on the right side >(the core plane was in the white area, the computer against the black >background). > >Programming the IBM 1620, by Clarence B. Germain, or something like >that, if memory serves. I bought it in the remainder pile of a Coles >store that was closing up - in the late 1970s! > > Another 1620 book was by Eric Weiss, a hardcover text, which went through at least two printings/editions. Mr. Weiss was one of the founders of the 1620 Users Group, which became COMMON. He was an employee of Sun Company (as in Sunoco, not Sun Microsystems, which didn't even exist then), and when he retired, he was the Sun Company's "futurist". -- Bruce B. Reynolds, Systems Consultant: Founder of Trailing Edge Technologies, Glenside PA and Niles IL: Sweeping Up Behind Data Processing Dinosaurs ###### From: William.Hamblen@nashville.com (William Hamblen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 06:51:23 GMT Organization: Utterly Disorganized Lines: 28 Message-ID: <3614dc08.3245097@news.nashville.com> References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Reply-To: William.Hamblen@nashville.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.65.180.172 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 907224681 4TJCV727NB4ACCF41C usenet58.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:23:52 GMT, japarsly@my-dejanews.com wrote: >The computer room was one of the few places in the school with air >conditioning. This was an important factor in my selection of computers as an >eventual career. Evidently 1620s were fairly popular in educational settings as the University of Chicago Demonstration School had one too, as one escapee from that establishment told me years ago. I guess the PDP-8 (Edu-system 8s and the like) got the education franchise in the '70s. Hume-Fogg High School in Nashville, TN, had a 1620 in the mid-60s when I took a summer programming course. This 1620 had only the console teleprinter and a card read punch for I/O and the best way to get your output was to punch it and print it out on the accounting machine that lived across the room. The job scheduler was a sign-up sheet on a clipboard: when your name reached the top of the list you got to run your job. The air conditioning was pretty weak for a roomful of students and machinery so from time to time the 1620 would overheat and have to be shut down. One side benefit from the course was that later in college the college computer center had a lonely model something or other keypunch that noone liked to use because the keycaps had the "wrong" symbols. (Who knew how to touch type?) I remembered from my 1620 summer that the punches were correct even if the interpreted symbols looked funny so I frequently got first crack at that one keypunch. The keypunches were used by undergrad non-CS majors, as the acolytes got time-share accounts and used ASR-33s. Some fun. If engineer generated fortran is bad, you ought to see engineering-student generated fortran. ###### From: thvv@best.com (Tom Van Vleck) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 07:17:16 -0700 Organization: Multicians Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <360FD486.495EFEA8@sgi.com> <6uqn18$3jo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3614dc08.3245097@news.nashville.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: thvv.vip.best.com X-Trace: 907251520 28115 (none) 206.86.0.12 X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.1 X-url: http://www.best.com/~thvv/multics.html Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.best.com!nntp2.ba.best.com!thvv The 1620 was used in a lot of settings. I had a summer job at Swift & Company's Operations Research department in 1964, and they had a 60K 1620 with hardware arithmetic. They ran a linear programming code on it weekly that computed the optimum mix of sausage ingredients subject to local prices and legal constraints. Each week's run started from the last week's feasible solution, so it took only about 10 minutes; once a month the reinverted the basis to control roundoff. Prices were teletyped from the local offices. They wanted to replace this system with an online system using the just-announced 360 computers. A few years later, while working at Project MAC, I taught an evening course at the BU Metropolitan College on elementary FORTRAN programming. I think this was FORTRAN IV but it's been a long time.. The computer for the course was a 40K 1620, which ran the student jobs one at a time from cards. Great little machine. ###### Message-ID: <3613C084.5509@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 09:48:52 -0800 From: Sam Yorko X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 References: <6uuqa7$933@freenet-news.carleton.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: exosecure-symbol.psd.symbol.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: exosecure-symbol.psd.symbol.com Organization: news://newsread.exodus.net : Crossing the Invisible Line Lines: 10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!kiowa.exodus.net!207.82.39.214.MISMATCH!newsread.exodus.net!exosecure-symbol.psd.symbol.com Harry Dodsworth wrote: > > The Anatomy of a Compiler, by John A. N. Lee > Van Nostrand Reinhold, 1967 > I wonder if this is the same J.A.N. Lee that has been a big influence on "The Annals of History Of Computing"? Sam ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 1 Oct 1998 13:30:05 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 24 Message-ID: <6v004t$u@top.mitre.org> References: <6usb8v$mfk@netaxs.com> <6utl84$i31$1@nntp3.uunet.ca> <6uu4kb$r0s@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!18.24.4.11!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news-f.std.com.MISMATCH!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris [Mailed and posted] twingo@bearriver.com (Tony Wingo) writes: >In article <6uu4kb$r0s@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe >Morris) wrote: >>That probably was a function of what they wanted to do. The 1620 >>was a character-based machine; the 1130 was a 36-bit binary system. >>Each has its advantages and disadvantages. >Actually, the 1130 was a 16-bit machine. I remember it fondly, as it was >the machine I learned to program on back in the late '60s I stand corrected. Another reader sent e-mail to me questioning my characterization of the box as a 36-bit system, and (as I replied to him) my recollection was based on very well-aged references to the 1130 in HASP documentation that I'm probably misremembering. (My HASP shop didn't have ann 1130, but we did have several (very) remote locations that used the 1130 as a HASP RJE station.) If you have experience programming it you've got better authority than I do to discuss its architecture. Joe Morris ###### From: hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:09:25 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <6usb8v$mfk@netaxs.com> <6utl84$i31$1@nntp3.uunet.ca> <6uu4kb$r0s@top.mitre.org> <6v004t$u@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-38lcghe.dialup.mindspring.com X-Server-Date: 2 Oct 1998 02:08:02 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs In article <6v004t$u@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: >I stand corrected. Another reader sent e-mail to me questioning my >characterization of the box as a 36-bit system, and (as I replied to >him) my recollection was based on very well-aged references to the >1130 in HASP documentation that I'm probably misremembering. (My >HASP shop didn't have ann 1130, but we did have several (very) remote >locations that used the 1130 as a HASP RJE station.) If you have >experience programming it you've got better authority than I do to >discuss its architecture. http://www.mindspring.com/~hshubs/1130 is a site very much "in progress". -- Howard S Shubs The Denim Adept ###### From: daveb@merlin.engr.sgi.com (Dave Babcock) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 1 Oct 1998 22:15:00 GMT Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 8 Message-ID: <6v0ut4$a3lc@gazette.engr.sgi.com> References: <6uuqa7$933@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <3613C084.5509@compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: merlin.engr.sgi.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!enews.sgi.com!gazette.engr.sgi.com!merlin.engr.sgi.com!daveb In article <3613C084.5509@compuserve.com>, Sam Yorko writes: |> |> I wonder if this is the same J.A.N. Lee that has been a big influence on |> "The Annals of History Of Computing"? One in the same. DaveB ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:39:56 +0000 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 22 Message-ID: <361404BB.6510ED4E@plano.net> References: <6uuqa7$933@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <3613C084.5509@compuserve.com> <6v0ut4$a3lc@gazette.engr.sgi.com> Reply-To: richmond@plano.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.44.41.12 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 907299110 R67V8VHUD29C D12CC usenet57.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) To: Dave Babcock Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!isdnet!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Dave Babcock wrote: > > In article <3613C084.5509@compuserve.com>, Sam Yorko writes: > > |> |> I wonder if this is the same J.A.N. Lee that has been a big influence on > |> "The Annals of History Of Computing"? > > One in the same. > Also *not* long after Adm. Grace Hopper's death, J.A.N. Lee wrote a biography of her. I only got to read the Reader's Digest condensed version (really!! they put a version of it in RD!) It is interesting to note that the Data Processing Management Association selected Grace Hopper as its first computer sciences "Man of the Year". She also thought that the most dangerous phrase was: "But we've always done it that way." -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: Fri, 02 Oct 98 12:09:03 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 36 Message-ID: <6v2k0d$9at$5@strato.ultra.net> References: <6uuqa7$933@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <3613C084.5509@compuserve.com> <6v0ut4$a3lc@gazette.engr.sgi.com> <361404BB.6510ED4E@plano.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: d14.dial-16.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 2 Oct 1998 13:21:17 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.xcom.net!news.ultranet.com!d14 In article <361404BB.6510ED4E@plano.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >Dave Babcock wrote: >> >> In article <3613C084.5509@compuserve.com>, Sam Yorko writes: >> >> |> |> I wonder if this is the same J.A.N. Lee that has been a big influence on >> |> "The Annals of History Of Computing"? >> >> One in the same. >> >Also *not* long after Adm. Grace Hopper's death, J.A.N. Lee >wrote a biography of her. I only got to read the Reader's Digest >condensed version (really!! they put a version of it in RD!) > >It is interesting to note that the Data Processing Management Association >selected Grace Hopper as its first computer sciences "Man of the Year". >She also thought that the most dangerous phrase was: "But we've always >done it that way." > Yup. JMF and I would go to every one of her talks when she was in the area. Invariably, I would be elbowing him in the ribs to emphasize various points she would make. I was one of those who always questioned the "done it that way" thinking and we had great fights about my proposals. If any of the young'uns here have access to a video of her talks, watch it. She's one of the funniest people. /BAH Sigh! - Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: IBM 1620 Date: 5 Oct 1998 21:18:12 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee Lines: 61 Message-ID: <6vbd2k$s1l$1@uwm.edu> References: <6uuqa7$933@freenet-news.carleton.ca> Reply-To: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.203 Originator: jgd@alpha3.csd.uwm.edu Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!chicago-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!uwm.edu!alpha3.csd.uwm.edu!jgd From article <6uuqa7$933@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, by af877@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Harry Dodsworth): > > I think I still have one or two genuine IBM manuals for the 1620 around > somewhere :-) > > Two books I have are: > > Basic Programming Concepts and The IBM 1620 Computer > Daniel N. Leeson and Donald L Dimitry, Holt Rinehart and Winston Inc., 1962 > > Some great pictures of the console; pictures of the 1621 paper tape reader > and the 1622 Card Read-Punch. Good coverage of SPS and Fortran and the > internal organization of the machine. > > The Anatomy of a Compiler, by John A. N. Lee > Van Nostrand Reinhold, 1967 Rummaging through mu shelf of "These may be useful someday" manuals.... o IBM 1620, Model 2, Reference Card Form X26-5852-1 This is a "code card", in a two-sheet 8.5x11 format. o IBM 1620 Monitor II System Reference Manual Form C26-5774-1 Covers the 1620 Disk Monitor commands, SPS II-D (disk version of the SPS assembler), and FORTRAN II-D. The FORTRAN description was sufficient for me to learn FORTRAN. (This was a total of about 30 pages, some of which are used to describe the library, and to supply instructions for actually operating the machine!) o IBM 1620 Central Processing Unit, Model 2 Form A26-5781-2 Detailed description of the architecture, including instruction set, I/O devices, and Operator Instructions. o Computers A Programming Problem Approach R. Clay Sprowles This was the textbook for the introductory programming class I took. While it is heavily 1620 oriented, it does touch (briefly) on general computer organization, as well as IBSYS. While we used the FORTRAN portion of the book, it also covers COBOL, as well as introducing PL/I. It also mentions, _with_ an example, COMIT !! (And IPL, and Lisp, and ALGOL, and GPSS and SIMSCRIPT. Briefly) Now... if anyone happens to have a copy of a Central Processing Unit manual for the IBM 1710 system.... I'm looking for a more detailed description of the 1710-specific instructions. The only reference manual number I can find for a 1710 is Form A26-5695 -- IBM 1710 Bibliography. If anyone has, or knows of, such a beastie, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks, -- John G Dobnick "Knowing how things work is the basis Information & Media Technologies for appreciation, and is thus a University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee source of civilized delight." jgd@csd.uwm.edu ATTnet: (414) 229-5727 -- William Safire