From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 13 Sep 1998 03:13:14 GMT Organization: Net Access BBS Lines: 19 Message-ID: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bbs.cpcn.com Originator: root@bbs.cpcn.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.netaxs.com!netaxs.com!bbs.cpcn.com!root I saw an ad in an old (1952) Time Magazine for NCR accounting machines. The unit looked like a giant cash register, with a number of extra column keys in addition to the regular number keys, as well as an alpha keyboard. Would anyone know how this machine worked? I gather the operator inserted ledger cards and the machine posted individual transactions. But I'm not sure what it did that autoamted the posting function or how it saved work. And I think the ad said the machine cost $60,000. BTW, is there an associate binary newsgroup with this one so I could post pictures? (If I could get someone to scan the ad for me, it'd be interesting.) Maybe I could post it in comp.society.folklore. Yes, I know you're not supposed to post binaries in text groups, but that group sees so little traffic I don't think one or two pictures will hurt ###### From: Marco S Hyman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 12 Sep 1998 23:08:06 -0700 Organization: S.N.A.F.U. (www.snafu.org) Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dumbcat.codewright.com X-Trace: 905666886 21276 marc 206.86.0.12 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!news1.best.com!nntp2.ba.best.com!not-for-mail hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) writes: > I saw an ad in an old (1952) Time Magazine for NCR accounting machines. > > Would anyone know how this machine worked? I gather the operator inserted > ledger cards and the machine posted individual transactions. But I'm > not sure what it did that autoamted the posting function or how it saved > work. Jump forward 20 years and you'll notice the ledger cards had a magnetic stripe. At least that's how the `L' series machines that Burroughs sold in the '70s worked. // marc ###### From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 03:01:57 +0000 Organization: Cannine Computer Center Lines: 39 Message-ID: <35FB35A6.6454F401@plano.net> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <35fb5f45.44989021@news.vip.net> Reply-To: richmond@plano.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.215.63.145 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 905673239 R67V8VHUD3F91CCD7C usenet52.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; 68K) To: genew@vip.net Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Gene Wirchenko wrote: > > hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) wrote: > > >I saw an ad in an old (1952) Time Magazine for NCR accounting machines. > > > >The unit looked like a giant cash register, with a number of extra column > >keys in addition to the regular number keys, as well as an alpha keyboard. > > > >Would anyone know how this machine worked? I gather the operator inserted > >ledger cards and the machine posted individual transactions. But I'm > >not sure what it did that autoamted the posting function or how it saved work. > > I am interested in finding out more about these machines myself > (and how computers replaced them). I may have occasion to get into > the history of computers (and their predecessors) in a study group I > may be leading shortly. Pointers to newsgroups and Web would be > appreciated. > > >And I think the ad said the machine cost $60,000. > > > >BTW, is there an associate binary newsgroup with this one so I could post > >pictures? (If I could get someone to scan the ad for me, it'd be > >interesting.) > > > >Maybe I could post it in comp.society.folklore. Yes, I know you're not > >supposed to post binaries in text groups, but that group sees so little > >traffic I don't think one or two pictures will hurt > In a book on the history of computers, I found a couple of interesting things about NCR. One thing is that Thomas J. Watson, Sr. had a salesman job with NCR before he became president of IBM. The other thing is that Charles Kettering was head of the R & D department at NCR, before he ran the Delco company and invented the electric starter for automobiles. -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 06:04:06 GMT Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here Lines: 35 Message-ID: <35fb5f45.44989021@news.vip.net> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.36 X-Trace: 905666471 A01OARAUVD424CCD1C usenet80.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!209.144.204.114!newsfeed.corridex.com!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) wrote: >I saw an ad in an old (1952) Time Magazine for NCR accounting machines. > >The unit looked like a giant cash register, with a number of extra column >keys in addition to the regular number keys, as well as an alpha keyboard. > >Would anyone know how this machine worked? I gather the operator inserted >ledger cards and the machine posted individual transactions. But I'm >not sure what it did that autoamted the posting function or how it saved work. I am interested in finding out more about these machines myself (and how computers replaced them). I may have occasion to get into the history of computers (and their predecessors) in a study group I may be leading shortly. Pointers to newsgroups and Web would be appreciated. >And I think the ad said the machine cost $60,000. > >BTW, is there an associate binary newsgroup with this one so I could post >pictures? (If I could get someone to scan the ad for me, it'd be >interesting.) > >Maybe I could post it in comp.society.folklore. Yes, I know you're not >supposed to post binaries in text groups, but that group sees so little >traffic I don't think one or two pictures will hurt Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: mdshapiro@aol.com (MDShapiro) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Lines: 29 Message-ID: <1998091323572400.TAA24161@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 13 Sep 1998 23:57:24 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <35FB35A6.6454F401@plano.net> Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Charles Richmond wrote: >In a book on the history of computers, I found a couple of interesting things >about NCR. One thing is that Thomas J. Watson, Sr. had a salesman job with >NCR before he became president of IBM. The other thing is that Charles >Kettering was head of the R & D department at NCR, before he ran the Delco >company and invented the electric starter for automobiles. As I heard it, John Patterson fired Tom Watson after he wanted (well-deserved) credit for helping save Dayton, Ohio, after a big flood. Watson set off to show Patterson. He used many of Patterson's ideas, but thought bigger. He selected one of Patterson's many pithy marketing training mottos (as can now be seen in a historic photo): "Think." He took the ideas of company pep rallies and company songs and attached them to IBM (so that many people think they invented them). In my view, the biggest thing was that he thought "international" rather than just "national" and "business machines" instead of just "cash registers". So the name "IBM" is a grand spoof on "NCR." (Many years ago, I taught a half-day course on "The Checkered History of NCR" as part of a new hires program I coordinated at the company's computer division. This information is part of what I dug out while researching it. I even have a copy of the sheet music for "The N.C.R." -- copyrighted 1906 -- that John Dvorak reprinted in part in his old Computerworld column. To avoid copyright problems, I actually used the music for a marketing demo I prepared for NCR.) ###### From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 14 Sep 1998 01:27:13 GMT Organization: Net Access BBS Lines: 15 Message-ID: <6thrdh$ohh@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bbs.cpcn.com Originator: root@bbs.cpcn.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.netaxs.com!netaxs.com!bbs.cpcn.com!root > In a book on the history of computers, I found a couple of interesting things > about NCR. One thing is that Thomas J. Watson, Sr. had a salesman job with > NCR before he became president of IBM. The other thing is that Charles > Kettering was head of the R & D department at NCR, before he ran the Delco > company and invented the electric starter for automobiles. A lot of significants fact here. Watson learned the art of salesmanship from NCR's head. Watson was fired, like many people were, because the guy was crazy. I don't know if it was Kettering, but a major NCR invention was a motor for the cash registers, and the understanding that since the motor operated very briefly during a ring-up, it didn't need extensively cooling capability, and thus could be a lot smaller, making it fit. ###### From: "Rick Lugg" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:33:58 +0200 Organization: The South African Internet Exchange Lines: 67 Message-ID: <6tikep$50g$1@news2.saix.net> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: qit-prxy-0000.telkom.co.za X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2120.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2120.0 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.netaxs.com!newsread.com!uunet!uunet!uunet!in4.uu.net!news2.saix.net!not-for-mail The NCR accounting machines were programmed using a "Form Bar" that took blocks plugged onto it to control computation and input and output. The bar was attached to the print carriage and therefore controlled printing of the form inserted in the machine. The forms were normally ledger cards. A machine would have a number of registers that could be input to, added to or subtracted from, sub-totalled (normally for printing) and totalled for printing and clearing. There were "automatic" options used just for calculating and stepping on to the next position. So from an operational point of view, the machine would stop at a point, the operator would pick up the previous "balance" value, enter the transaction detail and the machine would calculate a new balance, print the transaction line on the form and update department or transaction type totals on the fly. At the end of a batch or group of batches of work, grand totals could be extracted from the totals calculated on the fly. The major saving was in the automated printing on the ledger card and the automatic programmed cross-totalling that could be done as a by-product. There were tricks built into the picking up of the previous balance info that allowed the system to cross-check account number and previous balance, thereby alerting the operator to keying errors. The other aspect that improved throughput was the full keyboard (digits 1 -9 etc for every position in a total). This allowed the operator to enter a full amount in one press of all fingers. Making a form bar was a mixture of programming and Meccano kit, as each little block was made up of fingers to define what to do with any total, blocks to say what caused the bar to stop and carry out the function and a tab to define where to go next. All put together with a little spanner (wrench) and twirler (like a mini-socket). The last range of machines to use this type of control bar was the NCR 500 (circa 1965) which was a full blown digital computer that used ledger cards with magnetic stripes for data reading and writing. It had random access filing because the operator pulled the right card out of the traditional filing cabinet! The 500 had a four address command set and boasted 400 (48 bit) words of memory for programming, data storage and buffers etc. It did not support Win95. Hope this helps - like many of the machines my recollection is a bit rusty! -- Rick Lugg Lisa or Jeff wrote in message <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com>... >I saw an ad in an old (1952) Time Magazine for NCR accounting machines. > >The unit looked like a giant cash register, with a number of extra column >keys in addition to the regular number keys, as well as an alpha keyboard. > >Would anyone know how this machine worked? I gather the operator inserted >ledger cards and the machine posted individual transactions. But I'm >not sure what it did that autoamted the posting function or how it saved work. > > >And I think the ad said the machine cost $60,000. > >BTW, is there an associate binary newsgroup with this one so I could post >pictures? (If I could get someone to scan the ad for me, it'd be >interesting.) > >Maybe I could post it in comp.society.folklore. Yes, I know you're not >supposed to post binaries in text groups, but that group sees so little >traffic I don't think one or two pictures will hurt ###### From: colincampbell@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:47:53 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.142.50.74 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Sep 14 18:47:53 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.06 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x11.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 139.142.50.74 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com>, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) wrote: > I saw an ad in an old (1952) Time Magazine for NCR accounting machines. > > The unit looked like a giant cash register, with a number of extra column > keys in addition to the regular number keys, as well as an alpha keyboard. > > Would anyone know how this machine worked? I gather the operator inserted > ledger cards and the machine posted individual transactions. But I'm > not sure what it did that autoamted the posting function or how it saved work. FWIW, it sounds like the NCR 2000 posting machine. beloved of hotel night auditors everywhere. It was superceded, at least in the hospitality industry, by the 4200, substantially the same but no alpha keys. The point of both machines was to make legible postings, while recording totals by category. Each posting was "entered" by hitting a department key. Not sure of the alpha keys, probably to allow descriptive or memo entries. At the end of a posting session, you entered a read mode, with a hardware key, and printed a set of department totals, whicj the supported a journal entry. A good operator could make one hum, certainly much faster than recording it all by hand. (BTW, I used to run a 4200 and had it catch fire in the middle of my room posting. Disconcerting!) -- Ecc. 12:13-14 -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:04:35 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-38lcgf9.dialup.mindspring.com X-Server-Date: 15 Sep 1998 03:03:18 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs In article <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, colincampbell@my-dejanews.com wrote: >(BTW, I >used to run a 4200 and had it catch fire in the middle of my room posting. >Disconcerting!) You're not supposed to execute the HCF instruction on production equipment. Naughty! -- Howard S Shubs The Denim Adept ###### From: Marco S Hyman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 15 Sep 1998 11:59:04 -0700 Organization: S.N.A.F.U. (www.snafu.org) Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: dumbcat.codewright.com X-Trace: 905885945 6049 marc 206.86.0.12 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.best.com!nntp2.ba.best.com!not-for-mail jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: > From the narrative it sounds more like the instruction was CFH rather than > HCF, or maybe it was RCF (Run and Catch Fire) since he says that he was in > the middle of a posting session. Ahhhh yes.. the RCF instruction. Saw it run once on a Burrought 4700. Flames fanned by forced air from the sub-floor hit 8-12 inches above the top of the cabinet. The fun part was the race to the Big Red Button, everyone wanting to be the one to push it. Added urgency: push it before the halon system decided that it was needed :-) Only took the FE about 3 hours to fix the machine and get it running again! // marc ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 15 Sep 1998 12:53:13 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 23 Message-ID: <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.netaxs.com!newsread.com!uunet!uunet!uunet!in4.uu.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) writes: >colincampbell@my-dejanews.com wrote: >>(BTW, I >>used to run a 4200 and had it catch fire in the middle of my room posting. >You're not supposed to execute the HCF instruction on production >equipment. Naughty! From the narrative it sounds more like the instruction was CFH rather than HCF, or maybe it was RCF (Run and Catch Fire) since he says that he was in the middle of a posting session. Fortunately, I have no experience with equipment executing either instruction to the point of having flames, although I've had smoke (from a locked disk brake on an IBM 3380 being driven at full power by its motor) and melted power cables (from an incompetent electrical contractor's screwup that resulted in a phase lead fault to ground through the armor of a 20-foot length of 1" Greenfield installed without a safety ground). Joe Morris ###### From: colincampbell@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:28:37 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 24 Message-ID: <6tm4jk$975$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.142.50.74 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Sep 15 16:28:37 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.06 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x1.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 139.142.50.74 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article , hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) wrote: > In article <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, > colincampbell@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > >(BTW, I > >used to run a 4200 and had it catch fire in the middle of my room posting. > >Disconcerting!) > > You're not supposed to execute the HCF instruction on production > equipment. Naughty! > -- > Howard S Shubs The Denim Adept > 'Pon my soul! A master of the Organic Assembler! If you know of a listing of the mnemonics, I'd love to see a URL. BTW, does a denim adept code by the seat of his pants? ;> -- Ecc. 12:13-14 -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:47:38 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tm4jk$975$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-38lcgqo.dialup.mindspring.com X-Server-Date: 16 Sep 1998 01:46:22 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!firehose.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs In article <6tm4jk$975$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, colincampbell@my-dejanews.com wrote: >'Pon my soul! A master of the Organic Assembler! If you know of a listing of >the mnemonics, I'd love to see a URL. BTW, does a denim adept code by the >seat of his pants? ;> They're around here somewhere.... -- Howard S Shubs The Denim Adept ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 15 Sep 1998 20:57:15 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 36 Message-ID: <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!coop.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris Marco S Hyman writes: >The fun part was the race to the Big Red Button, everyone wanting to >be the one to push it. Added urgency: push it before the halon system >decided that it was needed :-) Yes, the BRB causes such a *solid* ker-CHUNK as it trips all the breakers and silence suddenly descends on the computer room. Thankfully I've never needed to push it in an emergency, but when I was managing a mainframe computer center *I* was the one who decided when we would test it. Actually, before we got our charter revised to call for 7x24 support -- meaning that our UPS boxes were rewired to be powered from the building generator when power failed -- we used power outages as a convenient time to do the periodic tests of the scram switches. The UPS we had gave us enough time to do an orderly shutdown, after which if we wanted to run the tests someone would pull the plastic faceplate from the scram switch mounting and push it. There *was*, however, the time that an idiot masquerading as a fire alarm repairman was working on the building alarm and casually tripped the relay that triggered the emergency UPS shutdown circuits. It's amazing just how loud silence can be if a room is supposed to be noisy... And I'll add one additional item: in one of the Washington DC area gov'mnt installations (which would not appreciate my identifying it) I noticed that the exit from the raised floor area had the usual scram switch -- and next to the switch was a large hand-lettered sign reading "DO NOT TEST". I've always wondered exactly what story lies behind the presence of that sign. Joe Morris ###### From: stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:15:19 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 53 Message-ID: <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.238.143.163 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Sep 16 04:15:19 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.06 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.34 i586) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x14.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 208.238.143.163 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!solomon.io.com!news-feeds.jump.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: > Marco S Hyman writes: > > >The fun part was the race to the Big Red Button, everyone wanting to > >be the one to push it. Added urgency: push it before the halon system > >decided that it was needed :-) > > Yes, the BRB causes such a *solid* ker-CHUNK as it trips all the breakers > and silence suddenly descends on the computer room. > > Thankfully I've never needed to push it in an emergency, but when > I was managing a mainframe computer center *I* was the one who > decided when we would test it. > > Actually, before we got our charter revised to call for 7x24 > support -- meaning that our UPS boxes were rewired to be powered > from the building generator when power failed -- we used power > outages as a convenient time to do the periodic tests of the > scram switches. The UPS we had gave us enough time to do an > orderly shutdown, after which if we wanted to run the tests someone > would pull the plastic faceplate from the scram switch mounting > and push it. > > There *was*, however, the time that an idiot masquerading as a > fire alarm repairman was working on the building alarm and > casually tripped the relay that triggered the emergency UPS shutdown > circuits. It's amazing just how loud silence can be if a room > is supposed to be noisy... > > And I'll add one additional item: in one of the Washington DC area > gov'mnt installations (which would not appreciate my identifying > it) I noticed that the exit from the raised floor area had the > usual scram switch -- and next to the switch was a large hand-lettered > sign reading "DO NOT TEST". I've always wondered exactly what story > lies behind the presence of that sign. > > Joe Morris > When I was a kid (I am an IBM brat) on the tour on "Family Day" I distinctly remember being told that the big red switch on the side of the IBM mainframe was a safety shutoff switch, but that if all power was removed instantly by switching it off, the computer would burn up very quickly due to the cease in it's cooling system. I also remember those cool "Snoopy" posters we would all get, printed by the line printer. Does anybody know if that sort of program still exists? (It would use ASCII to print out "Snoopy" on his doghouse, with the kid's name also printed on the page) -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 16 Sep 1998 15:16:29 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 56 Message-ID: <6tokod$a7f@top.mitre.org> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.fast.net!uunet!in4.uu.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us writes: >When I was a kid (I am an IBM brat) on the tour on "Family Day" I distinctly >remember being told that the big red switch on the side of the IBM mainframe >was a safety shutoff switch, but that if all power was removed instantly by >switching it off, the computer would burn up very quickly due to the cease in >it's cooling system. The problem wasn't usually the cooling (unless the coolant supply was turned off without killing machine power), but the sudden loss of power to everything at the same time. In a large facility you have one helluvalot of power being fed into the various boxes; when you bring them up from cold shutdown, or take them down *to* cold shutdown, you want to do it one box at a time, and in many cases within each box the power to the various components needs to be sequenced up and down in a defined order. Powering systems up also involved waiting for initialization to complete; even medium-sized shops might require 5-10 minutes before the CPU reported power-up complete. Pulling power out from under the entire shop could cause an inductive spike (potentially damaging circuit components) as well as mechanical damage to the hardware (consider a half-inch tape in high-speed rewind when power is suddenly lost). And there's always the problem that if the computer has been running for a long time without shutting down, some internal motors (such as ones driving floppies that contain internal microcode) may sieze when they cool down for the first time in months. Of course, this would happen with an orderly shutdown as well, but in that case you would hopefully be more likely to remember to check the drives (and have the Field Circus telephone number at hand). >I also remember those cool "Snoopy" posters we would all get, printed by the >line printer. Does anybody know if that sort of program still exists? (It >would use ASCII to print out "Snoopy" on his doghouse, with the kid's name >also printed on the page) The ASCII images are descended from printed art that far predates the computer age. For a long time the wire services could be expected to send Teletype art to their customers on Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve, using (of course) the Baudot code. One advantage that they had over today's .sig art is that you could actually get a decent gray scale rendering by careful use of overprinting (which is rather hard to do on a CRT...). Snoopy, of course, was born about the time that the word "computer" was beginning to acquire its current association with a machine rather than a human, but I suspect that you'll find that there was a lot of Snoopy art on Teletype printers long before ASCII was much more than a newly-written standard. (Actually, I'm not at all sure when Snoopy first rode his doghouse into a WW1 air battle. Comments?) Joe Morris ###### From: "George R. Gonzalez" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:31:44 -0500 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Lines: 38 Message-ID: <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: grg1.micro.umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!news1.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail Gene Wirchenko wrote in message <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net>... >stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us wrote: > >[snip] > >>I also remember those cool "Snoopy" posters we would all get, printed by the >>line printer. Does anybody know if that sort of program still exists? (It >>would use ASCII to print out "Snoopy" on his doghouse, with the kid's name >>also printed on the page) At our site there was a "Picture tape" that had dozens of these line-printer images on it. One day I accidentally sent the whole tape to the print queue. Then when they didnt show up in my bin, I did it again. Little did I know that really large print jobs got diverted to the fancy very fast line printers hooked up directly to the mainframe. When I figured this out, I sheepishly slunk over to the main site and found two, foot thick stacks of output. The pictures were not particulary memorable, except for one huge "Star Trek" poster that was about 4 line-printer pages wide, with many levels of overstriking. I was lucky this was on my "staff" account... Real users were charged several cents per page (plus CPU time, plus $2 per tape mount, plus I/O processor time...) Regards, George ###### Date: 16 Sep 98 16:46:29 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? References: <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> Message-ID: <2157.563T1472T10064721@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 56 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!204.244.4.2!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.103 In article <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> grg@foundsys.com (George R. Gonzalez) writes: >Gene Wirchenko wrote in message <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net>... > >>stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us wrote: >> >>[snip] >> >>>I also remember those cool "Snoopy" posters we would all get, printed >>>by the line printer. Does anybody know if that sort of program still >>>exists? Sure - on Unix it's called "lp". All it did was print a data file which contained the actual image. >>>(It would use ASCII to print out "Snoopy" on his doghouse, Wash your mouth! If it was on an IBM mainframe or work-alike, it was in EBCDIC, not ASCII. >>>with the kid's name also printed on the page) Or a calender below it, or whatever. I painstakingly punched the first of these listings onto my own card decks, so I still had my own copy if they were deleted from the system. I left off the calendar, though - they're so dated. :-) I did a Snoopy or two plus a couple of nudes, before I got a job out in the Real World [tm] and got them onto a tape of my own. >At our site there was a "Picture tape" that had dozens of these >line-printer images on it. I built a fair-sized collection. I got the whole thing off 9-track tape onto floppies while there were still tape drives I could get access to. It might even be on an FTP site somewhere. >The pictures were not particulary memorable, except for one huge "Star >Trek" poster that was about 4 line-printer pages wide, with many levels >of overstriking. I probably have that one, or others like it. Some of them are overprinted as many as 8 times. The largest picture in my collection prints out in five sections which you tape together to form a detailed image of the moon that is about 5 feet square. It comprised about 9300 line images. I hung one on my wall - it was really impressive. I once started working on encoding the overprinting into gray-scale pixels, but never got around to finishing it. That moon would look pretty nice on a modern-day screen. So would Einstein or Spock, or any of the several nudes... -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: yuska@bgs.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:56:02 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 90 Message-ID: <6tp1k1$k9s$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tokod$a7f@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.165.159.3 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Sep 16 18:56:02 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x8.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 204.165.159.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <6tokod$a7f@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) wrote: > stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us writes: > > >When I was a kid (I am an IBM brat) on the tour on "Family Day" I distinctly > >remember being told that the big red switch on the side of the IBM mainframe > >was a safety shutoff switch, but that if all power was removed instantly by > >switching it off, the computer would burn up very quickly due to the cease in > >it's cooling system. > > The problem wasn't usually the cooling (unless the coolant supply was > turned off without killing machine power), but the sudden loss of power > to everything at the same time. In a large facility you have one > helluvalot of power being fed into the various boxes; when you bring > them up from cold shutdown, or take them down *to* cold shutdown, you > want to do it one box at a time, and in many cases within each box the > power to the various components needs to be sequenced up and down in > a defined order. The cooling could sometimes be a problem with the freon/water cooled machines that I worked with. Usually at least part of the cooling system worked on 60-hertz power, while the mainframes and large disks were powered by a 400-Hertz 3-phase mg set. The MG sets would give you a few seconds of spin-down time to trigger cleanup programs on the mainframes. One of the interesting design tradeoffs in these shutdown programs in the days of the physically BIG disks was: How much time do I have to write memory stuff to disk?? and how much time does it take to land the disk heads in a safe place? ( Cleaning up from a head crash was a 2-4 hour job.) > > Powering systems up also involved waiting for initialization to complete; > even medium-sized shops might require 5-10 minutes before the CPU reported > power-up complete. > > Pulling power out from under the entire shop could cause an inductive > spike (potentially damaging circuit components) as well as mechanical > damage to the hardware (consider a half-inch tape in high-speed rewind > when power is suddenly lost). Been there, done that. IIRC, the supply reel was almost free-spinning, using some inductive braking from the motors to maintain tension. Power goes off, take-up slows dramatically, supply doesn't, put maybe a half-mile of tape into a space maybe 12"x24"x2" (or at least attempt to) > > And there's always the problem that if the computer has been running > for a long time without shutting down, some internal motors (such as > ones driving floppies that contain internal microcode) may sieze when > they cool down for the first time in months. Of course, this would > happen with an orderly shutdown as well, but in that case you would > hopefully be more likely to remember to check the drives (and have > the Field Circus telephone number at hand). Again, IIRC, the high-spped line printers, their hammer solenoids, and their paper feed motors didn't like to be shut down quickly either. > > >I also remember those cool "Snoopy" posters we would all get, printed by the > >line printer. Does anybody know if that sort of program still exists? (It > >would use ASCII to print out "Snoopy" on his doghouse, with the kid's name > >also printed on the page) > > The ASCII images are descended from printed art that far predates the > computer age. For a long time the wire services could be expected to > send Teletype art to their customers on Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve, > using (of course) the Baudot code. One advantage that they had over > today's .sig art is that you could actually get a decent gray scale > rendering by careful use of overprinting (which is rather hard to do > on a CRT...). Snoopy, of course, was born about the time that the > word "computer" was beginning to acquire its current association > with a machine rather than a human, but I suspect that you'll find > that there was a lot of Snoopy art on Teletype printers long > before ASCII was much more than a newly-written standard. One small nit, Joe. I don't think (at least up to maybe 73, 74) it would have been called "ASCII" art in an IBM shop. I can remember some really strange things needed to be done to get blue boxes to see anything other than EBCDIC. (I've posted here before about the "half-ascii" tapes from the Library of Congress) > > (Actually, I'm not at all sure when Snoopy first rode his doghouse > into a WW1 air battle. Comments?) > > Joe Morris > Joe Yuska -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 16 Sep 1998 19:45:09 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 12 Message-ID: <6tp4g5$pcn@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tokod$a7f@top.mitre.org> <6tp1k1$k9s$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet5.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsroute.bconnex.ca!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 (yuska@bgs.com) writes: > > One small nit, Joe. I don't think (at least up to maybe 73, 74) it would have > been called "ASCII" art in an IBM shop. I can remember some really strange > things needed to be done to get blue boxes to see anything other than EBCDIC. Huh? TR (assembler) or TRANSLATE (PL/1) for text, and set the bit in the /360 PSW for USASCII numerics. B-) ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:00:27 GMT Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here Lines: 20 Message-ID: <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.14 X-Trace: 905976038 A01OARAUVD4E CCD1C usenet87.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us wrote: [snip] >I also remember those cool "Snoopy" posters we would all get, printed by the >line printer. Does anybody know if that sort of program still exists? (It >would use ASCII to print out "Snoopy" on his doghouse, with the kid's name >also printed on the page) "ASCII"? "ASCII"? Are you sure it wasn't EBCDIC? And you call yourself an IBM brat! Hmmph! Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### Message-ID: <36008B4B.1CBB@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:08:43 -0800 From: Sam Yorko X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? References: <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <2157.563T1472T10064721@sky.bus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: exosecure-symbol.psd.symbol.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: exosecure-symbol.psd.symbol.com Organization: news://newsread.exodus.net : Crossing the Invisible Line Lines: 66 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!169.132.11.200!news.idt.net!kiowa.exodus.net!207.82.39.214.MISMATCH!newsread.exodus.net!exosecure-symbol.psd.symbol.com Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > In article <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> grg@foundsys.com > (George R. Gonzalez) writes: > > >Gene Wirchenko wrote in message <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net>... > > > >>stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us wrote: > >> > >>[snip] > >> > >>>I also remember those cool "Snoopy" posters we would all get, printed > >>>by the line printer. Does anybody know if that sort of program still > >>>exists? > > Sure - on Unix it's called "lp". All it did was print a data file > which contained the actual image. > > >>>(It would use ASCII to print out "Snoopy" on his doghouse, > > Wash your mouth! If it was on an IBM mainframe or work-alike, > it was in EBCDIC, not ASCII. > > >>>with the kid's name also printed on the page) > > Or a calender below it, or whatever. I painstakingly punched > the first of these listings onto my own card decks, so I still > had my own copy if they were deleted from the system. I left > off the calendar, though - they're so dated. :-) I did a Snoopy > or two plus a couple of nudes, before I got a job out in the Real > World [tm] and got them onto a tape of my own. > > >At our site there was a "Picture tape" that had dozens of these > >line-printer images on it. > > I built a fair-sized collection. I got the whole thing off 9-track > tape onto floppies while there were still tape drives I could get > access to. It might even be on an FTP site somewhere. > > >The pictures were not particulary memorable, except for one huge "Star > >Trek" poster that was about 4 line-printer pages wide, with many levels > >of overstriking. > > I probably have that one, or others like it. Some of them > are overprinted as many as 8 times. The largest picture in my > collection prints out in five sections which you tape together > to form a detailed image of the moon that is about 5 feet square. > It comprised about 9300 line images. I hung one on my wall - it > was really impressive. > > I once started working on encoding the overprinting into gray-scale > pixels, but never got around to finishing it. That moon would look > pretty nice on a modern-day screen. So would Einstein or Spock, or > any of the several nudes... > > -- > cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) > Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. Back in the days when I was a member of the Explorer troop that met at the IBM Los Gatos labs to use the 370/168, somebody got the idea to re-implement the Mona Lisa line printer picture, which used overprinting to get the shading just right. The problem was, the first version >never< did the line feed, so the entire picture was printed on one line, resulting on a really nice row of boxes punched out of the paper. Almost jammed the 1401 when it did feed..... Sam ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 16 Sep 1998 21:15:20 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 29 Message-ID: <6tp9p8$mn1@top.mitre.org> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tokod$a7f@top.mitre.org> <6tp1k1$k9s$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tp4g5$pcn@freenet-news.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!coop.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes: > Huh? TR (assembler) or TRANSLATE (PL/1) for text, and set the > bit in the /360 PSW for USASCII numerics. ...and watch the fireworks the first time someone does that under OS/360 after the OS has been installed on a System/370. For the IBM-impaired, the bit switch in the state variable (Program Status Word, or PSW) that controlled the ASCII option was deleted in the System/370 world, and the function of the bit was assigned to the virtual/real switch. Turning that bit on, especially since OS/360 had not the faintest concept of virtual memory addressing, would immediately crash the entire system. No standard OS or application that I know of ever used the ASCII bit. (Time out for a quiz for the old-timers here: where was the ASCII bit in the PSW? No cheating; put those green cards back in your desk.) And yes, I'm speaking from experience. I had a performance-monitoring program that worked in concert with a hardware monitor; among other things the program created a task that did nothing but run in a spin loop. The task was set up so that it was always the last TCB in the chain (meaning that it got CPU cycles only if nobody else asked for them), and ran with the ASCII bit set so that the hardware monitor would know when the waste task was getting cycles. One day we installed a new 370/148 and I ran the monitor program for the first (and last) time ---- splat. Joe Morris ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 16 Sep 1998 22:45:13 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tm4jk$975$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) writes: > > colincampbell@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > >'Pon my soul! A master of the Organic Assembler! If you know of a listing of > >the mnemonics, I'd love to see a URL. BTW, does a denim adept code by the > >seat of his pants? ;> > > They're around here somewhere.... I assume you mean the canonical opcode list. I have a copy at: http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~neil/Jokes_and_Fun/Canon_Opcode -- home: neil@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~neil/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Microsoft is Software Communism, Fight for GNU Freedom! ###### From: colincampbell@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:05:31 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 22 Message-ID: <6tpg7r$5op$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.142.50.74 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Sep 16 23:05:31 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.06 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x6.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 139.142.50.74 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net>, genew@vip.net wrote: > stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us wrote: > > [snip] > > >I also remember those cool "Snoopy" posters we would all get, printed by the > >line printer. Does anybody know if that sort of program still exists? (It > >would use ASCII to print out "Snoopy" on his doghouse, with the kid's name > >also printed on the page) > > "ASCII"? "ASCII"? Are you sure it wasn't EBCDIC? And you call > yourself an IBM brat! Hmmph! > Well, you know... ASCII silly question, get a silly ANSI. -- Ecc. 12:13-14 -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### Date: 17 Sep 98 11:06:09 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? References: <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <2157.563T1472T10064721@sky.bus.com> <6tr13d$neh@top.mitre.org> Message-ID: <1810.564T467T6663352@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 35 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!204.244.4.2!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.104 In article <6tr13d$neh@top.mitre.org> jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes: >The output was better (in the gray-scale sense) if the printed characters >were slightly smudged, either by printing while the type slug is moving >(as in the IBM 1403) or by using a ribbon in the middle of its useful >life. Sharp edges usually tended to destroy the gray-scale effect, >resulting in an interesting problem of balancing the ribbon's smudge >effect against the need for good inking to get the black you needed. The other reason we preferred used ribbons was that a brand-new ribbon would deposit so much ink on the first pass that overprinting didn't make the result that much darker. A somewhat-worn ribbon would leave a lighter image on the first pass, but with enough overprinting you could still make it fairly dark - you got a more linear gray scale. :-) The first shop where I worked had a convention of overprinting heading and total lines on reports for extra emphasis. We had a Univac 9300, whose printer used an oscillating typebar. It was necessary to print a blank line between the two overprinted line images so that the bar would come back and be moving in the same direction for each impression - otherwise the smudging would be REALLY bad. I hated the way our 600-lpm printer would slow down to an effective 200 lpm for headings and totals, and occasionally I would "forget" to include the overprinting routines in my programs - the difference in speed was considerable, and as long as we kept fresh ribbons in the printer the overprinting didn't make that much of a difference anyway. (On the other hand, we were cheap enough to use ribbons until they almost had holes worn through them.) -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 17 Sep 1998 12:59:25 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 24 Message-ID: <6tr13d$neh@top.mitre.org> References: <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <2157.563T1472T10064721@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.clark.net!205.231.236.10!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-feeds.jump.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris "Charlie Gibbs" writes: >I once started working on encoding the overprinting into gray-scale >pixels, but never got around to finishing it. That moon would look >pretty nice on a modern-day screen. So would Einstein or Spock, or >any of the several nudes... 'Way back when there were a number of print files floating around that would print "calibration charts" of gray-scale. Especially given the fixation that so many people today have about getting unnecessarily high resolution on their desktop display, you could actually get a quite decent chip chart from a typical mainframe printer -- at least you could if the printer was capable of printing characters where they were supposed to go on the page. (See the recent thread in a.f.c on the subject of drum printers for the gory details.) The output was better (in the gray-scale sense) if the printed characters were slightly smudged, either by printing while the type slug is moving (as in the IBM 1403) or by using a ribbon in the middle of its useful life. Sharp edges usually tended to destroy the gray-scale effect, resulting in an interesting problem of balancing the ribbon's smudge effect against the need for good inking to get the black you needed. Joe Morris ###### From: yuska@bgs.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:50:49 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 51 Message-ID: <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.165.159.3 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Sep 17 18:50:49 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x1.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 204.165.159.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!news-lond.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.238.120.130!news-feeds.jump.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu>, "George R. Gonzalez" wrote: > > Gene Wirchenko wrote in message <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net>... > >stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us wrote: > > > >[snip] > > > >>I also remember those cool "Snoopy" posters we would all get, printed > by the > >>line printer. Does anybody know if that sort of program still exists? > (It > >>would use ASCII to print out "Snoopy" on his doghouse, with the kid's > name > >>also printed on the page) > > At our site there was a "Picture tape" that had dozens of these > line-printer images on it. > One day I accidentally sent the whole tape to the print queue. Then when > they didnt show up in my bin, I did it again. Little did I know that > really large print jobs got diverted to the fancy very fast line printers > hooked up directly to the mainframe. When I figured this out, I > sheepishly slunk over to the main site and found two, foot thick stacks > of output. > > The pictures were not particulary memorable, except for one huge "Star > Trek" poster that was about 4 line-printer pages wide, with many levels > of overstriking. > > I was lucky this was on my "staff" account... Real users were charged > several cents per page (plus CPU time, plus $2 per tape mount, plus I/O > processor time...) > > Regards, > > George > > In the early seventies, a graphics group at Harvard produced an early GIS program called SYMAP. I was involved in porting this to a large CDC system. During one of the test runs the operations people told me some program was sucking up all the disk space available, as well as using enormous CPU time. When I checked, sure enough, I had screwed up the scaling parameters and requested a one-to-one map of Africa. Joe "recycle the rainforest" Yuska -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: huge@axalotl_nospam.demon_nospam.co.uk (Hugh Davies) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 18 Sep 1998 08:15:49 GMT Organization: Piglet's Pickles and Preserves Message-ID: <6tt4rl$dcc@axalotl.demon.co.uk> References: <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Reply-To: huge@axalotl_nospam.demon_nospam.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: axalotl.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: axalotl.demon.co.uk:158.152.24.143 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 906116626 nnrp-01:10267 NO-IDENT axalotl.demon.co.uk:158.152.24.143 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net x-no-archive: yes Lines: 24 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!axalotl.demon.co.uk!axalotl!usenet In article <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, yuska@bgs.com writes: >During one of the test runs the operations people told me some program was >sucking up all the disk space available, as well as using enormous CPU time. >When I checked, sure enough, I had screwed up the scaling parameters and >requested a one-to-one map of Africa. He-he-he. I once ran a plotter job at college (in the mid-70's) and when I went to collect it from my pigeonhole, there was an entire roll of plotter paper and a note from Ops not to run the job again. The plot looked like a sine wave with an amplitude of about 1/2" and a wavelength of 15ft. And there were hundreds of feet of this stuff... The only way to see it was to unroll the plot along the corridor, kneel down and look down the length of it.... -- "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse." The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.axalotl.demon.co.uk/transport/FAQ.html [Substitute "axalotl" for "nospam" to email me] ###### From: "George R. Gonzalez" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:27:23 -0500 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6tu5cq$df6$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: grg1.micro.umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!news1.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail yuska@bgs.com wrote in message <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... > >In the early seventies, a graphics group at Harvard produced an early GIS >program called SYMAP. I was involved in porting this to a large CDC system. > >During one of the test runs the operations people told me some program was >sucking up all the disk space available, as well as using enormous CPU time. >When I checked, sure enough, I had screwed up the scaling parameters and >requested a one-to-one map of Africa. > >Joe "recycle the rainforest" Yuska Sorta reminds me of the astrophysicist that wrote a program to simulate the evolution of galaxies. The program was very complicated and would have worked fine except for one thing.... a test run revealed it ran in real time. ###### Date: 18 Sep 98 13:28:15 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? References: <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tt4rl$dcc@axalotl.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <774.565T760T8083597@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 17 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!204.244.4.2!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.128 In article <6tt4rl$dcc@axalotl.demon.co.uk> huge@axalotl_nospam.demon_nospam.co.uk (Hugh Davies) writes: >I once ran a plotter job at college (in the mid-70's) and when I went >to collect it from my pigeonhole, there was an entire roll of plotter >paper and a note from Ops not to run the job again. The plot looked >like a sine wave with an amplitude of about 1/2" and a wavelength of >15ft. And there were hundreds of feet of this stuff... When I was at university, a friend of mine wrote a program to plot a simulation of Brownian motion. The single sheet, with its random squiggle, appeared in his pigeonhole with a note from the operator saying, "Does this mean anything?" -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: glass2@glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 19 Sep 1998 00:33:10 GMT Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 34 Message-ID: <6tuu46$s58$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> References: <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tt4rl$dcc@axalotl.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: wa4qal@vnet.ibm.com NNTP-Posting-Host: glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.52.4.10!news-stl.cp.verio.net!typhoon.stlnet.com!uunet!uunet!in1.uu.net!an02.austin.ibm.com!ausnews.austin.ibm.com!not-for-mail In <6tt4rl$dcc@axalotl.demon.co.uk>, huge@axalotl_nospam.demon_nospam.co.uk (Hugh Davies) writes: > >He-he-he. > >I once ran a plotter job at college (in the mid-70's) and when I went >to collect it from my pigeonhole, there was an entire roll of plotter >paper and a note from Ops not to run the job again. The plot looked >like a sine wave with an amplitude of about 1/2" and a wavelength of >15ft. And there were hundreds of feet of this stuff... > >The only way to see it was to unroll the plot along the corridor, kneel >down and look down the length of it.... > >-- > "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse." >The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.axalotl.demon.co.uk/transport/FAQ.html > [Substitute "axalotl" for "nospam" to email me] > > They left you a note? You knew you'd really screwed up when the ops called you! Or, even better, when the sys-progs called you! :*) We're not real sure what you're doing, but could you call us the next time before you run that job so we can see what it's doing? Somehow, it's taking out part of the system... Dave P.S. Standard Disclaimer: I work for them, but I don't speak for them. ###### From: huge@nospam.demon.co.uk (Hugh Davies) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 19 Sep 1998 07:58:33 GMT Organization: Piglet's Pickles and Preserves Message-ID: <6tvo79$evb@axalotl.demon.co.uk> References: <6tuu46$s58$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> Reply-To: huge@nospam.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: axalotl.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: axalotl.demon.co.uk:158.152.24.143 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 906194076 nnrp-10:3859 NO-IDENT axalotl.demon.co.uk:158.152.24.143 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net x-no-archive: yes Lines: 24 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.maz.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!axalotl.demon.co.uk!axalotl!usenet In article <6tuu46$s58$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>, glass2@glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com writes: >They left you a note? You knew you'd really screwed up when >the ops called you! Or, even better, when the sys-progs called >you! :*) *grin* I occupied something of a unique position in the computing lab, since I was actually a Biochemistry undergraduate, the first one to apply for and be given an account. And only the second or third person in the Bio lab to be given an account. And for the young 'uns reading this, don't forget this was well before the PC; the computer lived in an air-conditioned temple where it was attended to by acolytes and the supplicants submitted their jobs on cards through a glass window. Years later, I went back for a conference and dropped into the Computing Lab, 20 years older, 40 lbs heavier, 6" shorter of hair and wearing a suit and tie, and one of the operators remembered me! -- "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse." The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.axalotl.demon.co.uk/transport/FAQ.html [Substitute "axalotl" for "nospam" to email me] ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 19 Sep 1998 16:45:39 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 39 Message-ID: <6u0n3j$60s@top.mitre.org> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tu5cq$df6$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!coop.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris "George R. Gonzalez" writes: [thread on unexpectedly large printer/plotter output and/or CPU times] >Sorta reminds me of the astrophysicist that wrote a program to simulate >the evolution of galaxies. The program was very complicated and would >have worked fine except for one thing.... a test run revealed it ran in >real time. When I started working at my PPOE (March 1965) we had one particular user who was a major PITA. The site was a Large State University; the user was in the Nuclear Engineering department, and routinely produced about a box of printout each time he ran his job. The mainframe was an IBM 7040, but all of the output was produced on a single, 600 lpm 1403 printer attached to a 1401, so you can imagine that this user's job caused a major bottleneck in turnaround time. I was part of a group (*) that lobbied management to impose a charge for output to discourage excessive use, and management agreed. I don't recall the price we put on printed output (some nominal amount per thousand lines) but the user's output stack suddenly shrank from a full box to perhaps a hundred pages or so at most. Joe Morris (*) In today's shops the group would have been described as the "junior staff" and for the most part any recommendations it produced would be ignored. Back in the 60s, however, there was no "junior staff" for the excellent reason that there was no "senior staff" to be compared to. It was an interesting time for several reasons, one of which was that the technical operation and planning for the multimillion dollar facility was effectively in the hands of people in their early or mid twenties. We made some mistakes (surprise!) but in retrospect I think that we -- and our counterparts in other facilities who were similarly given early responsibility -- did a decent job of it. (Perhaps because upper management didn't have the faintest idea about how to plan for or use a computer center, so we could concentrate on getting the work done rather than playing office politics.) ###### From: jnickelsen@acm.org (Juergen Nickelsen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:09:38 +0200 Organization: [Posted via] Interactive Networx Message-ID: <1dfmrbd.8kqukn1ajk6z2N@n35-38.berlin.snafu.de> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tt4rl$dcc@axalotl.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: n35-38.berlin.snafu.de X-Newsreader: MacSOUP 2.3.3 Lines: 15 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed.nacamar.de!news-hh.maz.net!unlisys!news.snafu.de!jnickelsen Hugh Davies wrote: > I once ran a plotter job at college (in the mid-70's) and when I went > to collect it from my pigeonhole, there was an entire roll of plotter > paper and a note from Ops not to run the job again. Until mid or late 80s the IBM 3481 (?) was still the regular machine to do the course work for the students of the CS department at the TU Berlin, Germany. There was a saying among the students along the lines of "you weren't really there if you have never been yelled at by an operator." This was usually caused by overly large print jobs, such as by accident printing a number of object files instead of the sources. -- Juergen Nickelsen ###### From: "George R. Gonzalez" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:59:53 -0500 Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Campus Lines: 29 Message-ID: <6u64dm$96o$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tt4rl$dcc@axalotl.demon.co.uk> <1dfmrbd.8kqukn1ajk6z2N@n35-38.berlin.snafu.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: grg1.micro.umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsbottom.ais.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!news1.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail Juergen Nickelsen wrote in message <1dfmrbd.8kqukn1ajk6z2N@n35-38.berlin.snafu.de>... >There was a saying among the students along the lines >of "you weren't really there if you have never been yelled at by an >operator." This was usually caused by overly large print jobs, such as >by accident printing a number of object files instead of the sources. On our CDC systems most of the dial-up users used the old BASIC-style editor which put a line number on every line. This was okay when listing to your own TTY, but caused major problems when going to the lineprinter. You were supposed to use the "copysbf" utility, which stood for "Copy Shifted Binary File". (Which sounds wrong, as these were txt, not binary files). Anyway, this utility would shift the text over one space, as all the line printers used column 1 for spacial functions. If you forgot and directly copied your file to the line printers, major havoc would erupt. Your first set of line numbers "00100" to "09990" didnt cause too much pain, as the leading zero meant "double space" to the line printer. But as soon as you got to "10000", the "1" meant "Eject page"! So the line printer would go into spasms, printing a line, then ejecting the page. Sometimes the operator would catch this-- IIRC some of the better line printers would detect this in hardware somehow and shut things down. ###### From: glass2@glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: 22 Sep 1998 23:41:19 GMT Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 27 Message-ID: <6u9civ$1eai$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tt4rl$dcc@axalotl.demon.co.uk> <1dfmrbd.8kqukn1ajk6z2N@n35-38.berlin.snafu.de> Reply-To: wa4qal@vnet.ibm.com NNTP-Posting-Host: glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!newsfeed.corridex.com!ameritech.ais.net!jamie!ais.net!ameritech.net!uunet!uunet!in2.uu.net!an02.austin.ibm.com!ausnews.austin.ibm.com!not-for-mail In <1dfmrbd.8kqukn1ajk6z2N@n35-38.berlin.snafu.de>, jnickelsen@acm.org (Juergen Nickelsen) writes: >Hugh Davies wrote: > >> I once ran a plotter job at college (in the mid-70's) and when I went >> to collect it from my pigeonhole, there was an entire roll of plotter >> paper and a note from Ops not to run the job again. > >Until mid or late 80s the IBM 3481 (?) was still the regular machine to >do the course work for the students of the CS department at the TU >Berlin, Germany. There was a saying among the students along the lines >of "you weren't really there if you have never been yelled at by an >operator." This was usually caused by overly large print jobs, such as >by accident printing a number of object files instead of the sources. > >-- >Juergen Nickelsen I think you meant a machine in the IBM 308x series, not a 3481, which I show to be an IBM Infowindow II Display Station. There were 3081, 3083, and 3084 processors. Unfortunately, they were only capable of running 370/XA architecture, and were not ESA capable, so they're not too popular any more. Dave P.S. Standard Disclaimer: I work for them, but I don't speak for them. ###### From: jnickelsen@acm.org (Juergen Nickelsen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:35:57 +0200 Organization: [Posted via] Interactive Networx Lines: 21 Message-ID: <1dfs9sf.13qvb3dcb3d22N@[10.0.0.3]> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tt4rl$dcc@axalotl.demon.co.uk> <1dfmrbd.8kqukn1ajk6z2N@n35-38.berlin.snafu.de> <6u64dm$96o$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: n247-77.berlin.snafu.de X-Newsreader: MacSOUP 2.3.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!oleane!newsfeed.nacamar.de!news-hh.maz.net!unlisys!news.snafu.de!jnickelsen George R. Gonzalez wrote: > On our CDC systems most of the dial-up users used the old BASIC-style > editor which put a line number on every line. This was okay when > listing to your own TTY, but caused major problems when going to the > lineprinter. You were supposed to use the "copysbf" utility, which > stood for "Copy Shifted Binary File". (Which sounds wrong, as these were > txt, not binary files). Anyway, this utility would shift the text over > one space, as all the line printers used column 1 for spacial functions. I remember that. I took my first programming course at the university with Pascal on a CDC Cyber with NOS/BE. (We used a direct descendant of the ETH Zurich Pascal compiler, BTW.) IIRC the listing was usually generated by the compiler itself or by a separate utility, so there was no problem with column 1. But the behaviour of the printer was emulated by the terminals (or perhaps by the terminal concentrator or frontend computer), so if your program wroteln anything to OUTPUT, column 1 was interpreted alike. -- Juergen Nickelsen ###### From: jnickelsen@acm.org (Juergen Nickelsen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 03:20:19 +0200 Organization: [Posted via] Interactive Networx Lines: 18 Message-ID: <1dfz68r.mds381g03vbeN@n161-101.berlin.snafu.de> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tt4rl$dcc@axalotl.demon.co.uk> <1dfmrbd.8kqukn1ajk6z2N@n35-38.berlin.snafu.de> <6u9civ$1eai$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: n161-101.berlin.snafu.de X-Newsreader: MacSOUP 2.3.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.maz.net!news-hh.maz.net!unlisys!news.snafu.de!jnickelsen wrote: > I think you meant a machine in the IBM 308x series, not a 3481, which > I show to be an IBM Infowindow II Display Station. Sorry, I was wrong there. I just had a look -- the machine has a LISTSERV running that gives you this nice information on your requests: Summary of resource utilization ------------------------------- CPU time: 0.012 sec Device I/O: 0 Overhead CPU: 0.005 sec Paging I/O: 2 CPU model: 4381 DASD model: 3380 ^^^^ That was what I meant. -- Juergen Nickelsen ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: kmw@ichtys.n-online.de () Subject: Re: NCR Accounting machines? X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: usenet@ichtys.n-online.de NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost Organization: /home, sweet /home Message-ID: <1998Oct11.140340.21694@ichtys.n-online.de> References: <6tfd8a$3co@netaxs.com> <6tjocp$f8p$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tlnvp$h59@top.mitre.org> <6tmkbb$4sj@top.mitre.org> <6tne0o$pir$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35fffc92.3559708@news.vip.net> <6tp7ef$i4t$1@news1.tc.umn.edu> <6trlm9$h60$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6tt4rl$dcc@axalotl.demon.co.uk> <1dfmrbd.8kqukn1ajk6z2N@n35-38.berlin.snafu.de> <6u9civ$1eai$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:03:40 GMT Lines: 35 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!blackbush.xlink.net!noris.net!ichtys.n-online.de!ichtys.n-online.de!kmw glass2@glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com wrote: : > : >Until mid or late 80s the IBM 3481 (?) was still the regular machine to : >do the course work for the students of the CS department at the TU : >Berlin, Germany. There was a saying among the students along the lines : >of "you weren't really there if you have never been yelled at by an : >operator." This was usually caused by overly large print jobs, such as : >by accident printing a number of object files instead of the sources. : > : >-- : >Juergen Nickelsen : I think you meant a machine in the IBM 308x series, not a 3481, which Juergen probably means the 4381, the "top-end" miniframe. The next smaller model, 4361, was used at the Mannheim Polytechnic ("FHT") until 1991, to hold programming courses in the likes of COBOL, FORTRAN, PASCAL and /370 assembler. I actually did my PASCAL and COBOL coursework on those, since the compilers were so backwards semantically, that it made very little sense to do the stuff on Microfocus or Turbopascal.... actually added a second coding phase to working programs :( That machine handled ~40 sessions running editing, FILEL and the compiler/linker suitewuite nicely, although sometimes compile runs took minutes to finish. In other words, if there's one thing in the nineties to make them worthwile, there's always Linux and some iAPX{3,4}86. [ducking already] -- Karsten M. Winkovics eMail (home):kmw@ichtys.n-online.de eMail (Work):kmw@adtranz.de