From: ronny_w@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 04:19:49 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 7 Message-ID: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.170.96.193 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat Sep 05 05:15:21 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.01; Windows 95) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x3.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.170.96.193 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail Hello! I would like to buy a 400mhz processor for as little as possible. If you are interested please e-mail me at the address above. If you do please leave your name, e-mail address, and how much you want for the processor. Thank You and have a nice day/night. -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### Date: 08 Sep 98 13:52:11 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: <699.555T590T8324151@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 26 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!204.244.4.2!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.108 In article <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) writes: >In article <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, >wrote: > >>Hello! I would like to buy a 400mhz processor for as little as >>possible. > >You're in luck - just about any technlogy can deliver a 400 milliHerz >CPU rather easily. Electromechanical relays can easily keep up at >this rate. Well done! >(In my book, "mHz" ranks up there with "ASC-2" ... and its close cousin ASC-11 > and "DB-9"...) Ah yes, one of my pet peeves for sure. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: 8 Sep 1998 16:33:25 GMT Organization: TRIUMF, Canada's National Meson Facility Lines: 10 Message-ID: <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: alph02.triumf.ca Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!alph02.triumf.ca!shoppa In article <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, wrote: >Hello! I would like to buy a 400mhz processor for as little as possible. You're in luck - just about any technlogy can deliver a 400 milliHerz CPU rather easily. Electromechanical relays can easily keep up at this rate. (In my book, "mHz" ranks up there with "ASC-2" and "DB-9"...) Tim. ###### From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: 8 Sep 1998 17:02:30 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 12 Message-ID: <6t3nv6$s8l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet3.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Tim Shoppa (shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca) writes: > In article <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, wrote: >>Hello! I would like to buy a 400mhz processor for as little as possible. > > You're in luck - just about any technlogy can deliver a 400 milliHerz > CPU rather easily. Electromechanical relays can easily keep up at > this rate. Would anyone care to estimate the acreage and current draw for even a 486 relay equivalent? (I haven't got up-to-date specs for the relays, nor a circuit diagram of the chip.) ###### From: Crash Johnson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 19:07:35 -0400 Organization: Snow Crash Crew Lines: 39 Message-ID: <35F5B8B7.83B23968@ezonline.nospam.com> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6t3nv6$s8l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <905284347anb@kirsta.NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp142.ezonline.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.44.3.66!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!not-for-mail Thanks a M for that workup. Definitely worth a save. Did you take into account that we are used to dealing bytes instead of bits? Relays would be bits, yes? I was wondering when my computer's RAM and ROM and storage was more than the entire amount in the world. Where could I search this out? -- \||/ Original text above is my opinion Crash Johnson <8}}}}=< & not necessarily reality... \\ Deal with it. [N4] remove 'spam' for email I will do research for money John Morris wrote: > > In article <6t3nv6$s8l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> > ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" writes: > > > > > Tim Shoppa (shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca) writes: > > > In article <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, > > wrote: > > >>Hello! I would like to buy a 400mhz processor for as little as > > possible. > > > > > > You're in luck - just about any technlogy can deliver a 400 milliHerz > > > CPU rather easily. Electromechanical relays can easily keep up at > > > this rate. > > > > Would anyone care to estimate the acreage and current draw for even a > > 486 relay equivalent? (I haven't got up-to-date specs for the relays, > > nor a circuit diagram of the chip.) > > According to an early intel 486 book, it has a million transistors. > -- > John Morris Make the obvious change to the return address > GM4ANB@GB7EDN.#77.GBR.EU to reply. ###### From: John@kirsta.NOSPAM.demon.co.uk (John Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: Tue, 08 Sep 98 19:52:27 GMT Organization: the end of the universe Message-ID: <905284347anb@kirsta.NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6t3nv6$s8l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> Reply-To: John@kirsta.NOSPAM.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 905290619 mail2news:10953 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!kirsta.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: GM4ANB's version of Snews v1.29 Lines: 77 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail In article <6t3nv6$s8l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" writes: > > Tim Shoppa (shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca) writes: > > In article <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, > wrote: > >>Hello! I would like to buy a 400mhz processor for as little as > possible. > > > > You're in luck - just about any technlogy can deliver a 400 milliHerz > > CPU rather easily. Electromechanical relays can easily keep up at > > this rate. > > Would anyone care to estimate the acreage and current draw for even a > 486 relay equivalent? (I haven't got up-to-date specs for the relays, > nor a circuit diagram of the chip.) According to an early intel 486 book, it has a million transistors. Assume that you can replace each transistor with one relay (bad assumption: you'd do the logic differently with relays, but never mind - let's plough on...) The smallest relays I've personally used were little SIL units, with 5V, 100 mA coils. They were about 20 mm long, maybe 5 mm wide. So that's what I'm going to use for the million relays in my electromechanical 486. There are no doubt smaller ones, but as I've still got a couple of those, that's what I'm going to stick with - means I only have to go and buy another 999,998. Each one takes 5V * 100mA, or about half a Watt. Let's guess that on average half of them are energised at any time. That's 250000 Watts, or 250 kW. Hmmm - less than I would have guessed. Not nearly power station territory. As for size - well, if they were very tightly packed, you'd need 1,000,000 * 0.02 * 0.005 = 100 square metres of circuit board. So if you used a stack of 1 square metre boards, each 1 cm from the next, you'd get a nice cubic metre. With a quarter of a megawatt going in attention would, as the data sheets say, have to paid to the cooling requirements. Not to mention the floorboard requirements. On the good side, the fanout would be great, and you'd be able to clock it down to DC! For a bonus question - how long would it take to boot Linux or some other OS? Presumably a 400mHz 486 will run at about 2E-9 the speed of my 200MHz box, so 20 seconds would turn into - well I make it about 7,600 years. Just in time to start worrying about the Y10k problem. Of course everything else would have to be slowed down accordingly. The hard disk would "spin" much slower than the hour hand on a clock. But at least you could transfer data really quickly over that new- fangled 0.2 bps ethernet. A packet collision could ruin your whole day. And for printers "ppm" would have a whole new meaning - pixels per millenium. And the deeper truth to all this fancy is that in 10 or 50 years time, people will be speculating how long it would take for the house computer to recognise you as you walked up, open the door, mix you a cocktail and read you the news headlines while you drink it, if it had to run on an ancient 400 MHz pentium. J. -- John Morris Make the obvious change to the return address GM4ANB@GB7EDN.#77.GBR.EU to reply. ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:40:32 +0000 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <35F5B260.4D249FE7@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6t3nv6$s8l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 905294788 nnrp-10:15347 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 16 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!netnews.globalip.ch!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: > Would anyone care to estimate the acreage and current draw for even a > 486 relay equivalent? (I haven't got up-to-date specs for the relays, > nor a circuit diagram of the chip.) How fast do you want it? Seriously, implementing a processor with a few relays, and a loop of paper tape from punch to reader to hold the register set, is the sort of thing I would like to try as a retirement project. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: 09 Sep 1998 22:16:52 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <699.555T590T8324151@sky.bus.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 "Charlie Gibbs" writes: > > In article <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca > (Tim Shoppa) writes: > > >(In my book, "mHz" ranks up there with "ASC-2" > > ... and its close cousin ASC-11 > > > and "DB-9"...) > > Ah yes, one of my pet peeves for sure. AFAIK the series starts DA-37, DB-25. I also know DB10W3 (the one with 3 koaxes in it, a.k.a. NeXT/Sun/SGI monitor). And HD-15 (VGA monitor). What is actually the propper name for the 9 pin (COM1) and also what is the 15 pin (PC joystick) and the rest of the series? -- home: neil@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~neil/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Microsoft is Software Communism, Fight for GNU Freedom! ###### From: Ian Stirling <000035F6F0D2.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:19:14 +0100 Organization: None. Message-ID: <000035F6F0D2.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6t3nv6$s8l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <905284347anb@kirsta.NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> <35F5B8B7.83B23968@ezonline.nospam.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 905390783 mail2news:10510 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-12.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net![158.152.209.66]!mauve.demon.co.uk User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971106 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.34 (i586)) X-Note: Anti-UCE in effect, replying should work if you are not UCE'ng X-Warning0: For unsolicited commercial email, sent or causing to be sent to my email address X-Warning1: on this message, I reserve the right to levy a charge for my time and expenses X-Warning2: of up to 100 pounds sterling per message, plus legal, penalty or other costs. Lines: 56 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Crash Johnson wrote: : Thanks a M for that workup. Definitely worth a save. Did you take into : account that we are used to dealing bytes instead of bits? Relays would : be bits, yes? : I was wondering when my computer's RAM and ROM and storage was more than : the entire amount in the world. Where could I search this out? Please note: It is conventional to put your comments after the part of the message you are commenting to, and delete the parts that you have no comment to make on. There are various reasons for this, including that it lets you read over the post, to see you are not making a fool of yourself, with something you failed to notice, to make it easy for someone who has not seen the original to understand and many other reasons. Your newsreader really should point this out in it's documentation. I'd think that substantial savings could be made by using switching relays, as found in telephone exchanges. Also more fun to maintain. Is 400mhz pessimistic, or optomistic I wonder, what's the gate delay on a typical pentium, as a fraction of it's clock speed? : John Morris wrote: :> :> In article <6t3nv6$s8l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> :> ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA "Heinz W. Wiggeshoff" writes: :> :> > :> > Tim Shoppa (shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca) writes: :> > > In article <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, :> > wrote: :> > >>Hello! I would like to buy a 400mhz processor for as little as :> > possible. :> > > :> > > You're in luck - just about any technlogy can deliver a 400 milliHerz :> > > CPU rather easily. Electromechanical relays can easily keep up at :> > > this rate. :> > :> > Would anyone care to estimate the acreage and current draw for even a :> > 486 relay equivalent? (I haven't got up-to-date specs for the relays, :> > nor a circuit diagram of the chip.) :> :> According to an early intel 486 book, it has a million transistors. : -- See http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ |Linux PDA, cheap electronics/PC bits sale. See_header,_for_UCE_policy___________|_____________________________Ian_Stirling. Paranoia: A game for the whole family, and anyone else who might be watching. ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: 09 Sep 1998 22:48:35 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 41 Message-ID: References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6t3nv6$s8l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <35F5B260.4D249FE7@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Robert Billing writes: > > Heinz W. Wiggeshoff wrote: > > > Would anyone care to estimate the acreage and current draw for even a > > 486 relay equivalent? (I haven't got up-to-date specs for the relays, > > nor a circuit diagram of the chip.) > > How fast do you want it? Seriously, implementing a processor with a few > relays, and a loop of paper tape from punch to reader to hold the > register set The fastest relays I know (reed switches) are in the 1..5 ms range. So that would allow an 10..30Hz operation. 10^-7 of modern machines. OTOH I do not know long they will last with constant firing. The smallest machine I know of (G1a, ca 1955, at MPI Goettingen Germany, made by an Heinz Billing BTW) had 476 valves, registers were an magnetically coated drum (according to c't 88/10 page 110). With vertical standing reed switches (ca 4 cm high) at a density of 1/cm2 that would fit 22*22 cm. Actually less than the register drum would need. AFAIK there were even smaller machines. The LGP30 from Royal McBee is said to be smaller, but I have no description of it. Can anyone help here? > is the sort of thing I would like to try as a retirement > project. Interesting idea. Or alternatively clone some simple machine (pdp-1/5/6/8, Linc, 1420, 1680(?)) using an FPGA. Then put the source under GPL. Lots of a.f.u-ers would love to have one. -- home: neil@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~neil/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Microsoft is Software Communism, Fight for GNU Freedom! ###### From: Crash Johnson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 23:16:31 -0400 Organization: Snow Crash Crew Lines: 10 Message-ID: <35F7448F.26773AAA@ezonline.nospam.com> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6t3nv6$s8l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <905284347anb@kirsta.NOSPAM.demon.co.uk> <35F5B8B7.83B23968@ezonline.nospam.com> <000035F6F0D2.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp137.ezonline.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsm2.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.44.3.66!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!not-for-mail Ian - is that british for anal-retentive or just anal retentive? PLUS YOU DIDN'T EVEN ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION! So, I agree with those who have gone before and said: <*plonk*> -- \-* )) The above is my opinion, Crash Johnson @8-)===// not necessarily reality; /-* // deal with it. remove spam for email quote? we doan need no steenken quotes! ###### From: Marco S Hyman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: 09 Sep 1998 23:56:10 -0700 Organization: S.N.A.F.U. (www.snafu.org) Message-ID: References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <699.555T590T8324151@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dumbcat.codewright.com X-Trace: 905410570 17219 marc 206.86.0.12 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Lines: 14 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!news1.best.com!nntp2.ba.best.com!not-for-mail Neil Franklin writes: > AFAIK the series starts DA-37, DB-25. > > I also know DB10W3 (the one with 3 koaxes in it, a.k.a. NeXT/Sun/SGI > monitor). And HD-15 (VGA monitor). > > What is actually the propper name for the 9 pin (COM1) and also what > is the 15 pin (PC joystick) and the rest of the series? I believe it is a DE-9, DE being the size, 9 the number of pins. I think there is also a DE-15 used by some monitors. // marc ###### Date: 10 Sep 98 10:19:27 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca><699.555T590T8324151@sky.bus.com> Message-ID: <1648.557T1382T6194643@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 49 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!204.244.4.2!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.112 In article neil@arch.ethz.ch.remove (Neil Franklin) writes: >"Charlie Gibbs" writes: >> >> In article <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca >> (Tim Shoppa) writes: >> >> >(In my book, "mHz" ranks up there with "ASC-2" >> >> ... and its close cousin ASC-11 >> >> > and "DB-9"...) >> >> Ah yes, one of my pet peeves for sure. > >AFAIK the series starts DA-37, DB-25. No, it goes like this: DA-15 (game ports and Ethernet AUI connectors) DB-25 DC-37 (some floppy disk expansion connectors) DD-50 (three rows of pins) DE-9 (I guess this smallest size was added later.) >I also know DB10W3 (the one with 3 koaxes in it, a.k.a. NeXT/Sun/SGI >monitor). And HD-15 (VGA monitor). That should really be DE-15. If you're into modifier suffixes, you could call it DE-15HD or something like that. But it's still the E-size shell, so you can see the problem if someone tried to use the erroneous "DB" (instead of "D") - both the Ethernet AUI connector and the VGA connector would be referred to as DB-15, even though the only thing they have in common is the number of pins. I once saw a laptop with an expansion unit that connected to it with a cable having a DD-62 connector on each end (i.e. a D-size shell but with 62 pins instead of 50). >What is actually the propper name for the 9 pin (COM1) and also what >is the 15 pin (PC joystick) and the rest of the series? DE-9 and DA-15 respectively (see above for the entire series). -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: 10 Sep 1998 19:36:25 GMT Organization: TRIUMF, Canada's National Meson Facility Lines: 15 Message-ID: <6t99np$8t6$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <699.555T590T8324151@sky.bus.com> <1648.557T1382T6194643@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: alph02.triumf.ca Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!awabi.library.ucla.edu!137.82.194.1!unixg.ubc.ca!alph02.triumf.ca!shoppa In article <1648.557T1382T6194643@sky.bus.com>, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >No, it goes like this: > >DA-15 (game ports and Ethernet AUI connectors) >DB-25 >DC-37 (some floppy disk expansion connectors) >DD-50 (three rows of pins) >DE-9 (I guess this smallest size was added later.) I've also seen 19-pin connectors in the "E" size shell - these were commonly used for paper tape readers on a certain lab's Data General Novae and Eclipses. Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) ###### From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: 10 Sep 1998 20:09:08 +0100 Organization: P850 User Group Message-ID: <6t984k$12b@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <699.555T590T8324151@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 905462164 nnrp-02:528 NO-IDENT p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 39 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!p850ug1.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Marco S Hyman (marc@snafu.org) wrote: : Neil Franklin writes: : > AFAIK the series starts DA-37, DB-25. : > : > I also know DB10W3 (the one with 3 koaxes in it, a.k.a. NeXT/Sun/SGI : > monitor). And HD-15 (VGA monitor). : > : > What is actually the propper name for the 9 pin (COM1) and also what : > is the 15 pin (PC joystick) and the rest of the series? : I believe it is a DE-9, DE being the size, 9 the number of pins. : I think there is also a DE-15 used by some monitors. The standard D connectors are DA15 (Ethernet AUI, PC joystick, etc) DA26 (High-density, never seen it) DB25 (PC parallel port, real RS232 port, etc) DB44 (High density, never seen it) DC37 (PC external drive port, Canon CX video interface, etc) DC62 (High density, PC expansion box connector, etc) DD50 (Sun SCSI port) DE9 (PC/AT serial port, Atari joystick, PC MDA/CGA?EGA monitor etc) DE15 (High density, VGA monitor, etc) I don't know what the official names are for the 19 pin one (Mac floppy drive) or the 23 pin one (Amiga video). I've seen them as DF19 and DG23, but I've never seen that used officially. : // marc -tony ###### From: stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:52:05 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 51 Message-ID: <6t9s7l$lr0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <699.555T590T8324151@sky.bus.com> <6t984k$12b@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.238.143.149 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Sep 11 00:52:05 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.06 [en] (Win95; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x14.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 208.238.143.149 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <6t984k$12b@p850ug1.demon.co.uk>, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Marco S Hyman (marc@snafu.org) wrote: > : Neil Franklin writes: > > : > AFAIK the series starts DA-37, DB-25. > : > > : > I also know DB10W3 (the one with 3 koaxes in it, a.k.a. NeXT/Sun/SGI > : > monitor). And HD-15 (VGA monitor). > : > > : > What is actually the propper name for the 9 pin (COM1) and also what > : > is the 15 pin (PC joystick) and the rest of the series? > > : I believe it is a DE-9, DE being the size, 9 the number of pins. > : I think there is also a DE-15 used by some monitors. > > The standard D connectors are > > DA15 (Ethernet AUI, PC joystick, etc) > DA26 (High-density, never seen it) > > DB25 (PC parallel port, real RS232 port, etc) > DB44 (High density, never seen it) > > DC37 (PC external drive port, Canon CX video interface, etc) > DC62 (High density, PC expansion box connector, etc) > > DD50 (Sun SCSI port) > > DE9 (PC/AT serial port, Atari joystick, PC MDA/CGA?EGA monitor etc) > DE15 (High density, VGA monitor, etc) > > I don't know what the official names are for the 19 pin one (Mac floppy > drive) or the 23 pin one (Amiga video). I've seen them as DF19 and DG23, > but I've never seen that used officially. > What do you mean by the phrase "officially" though? The RS-232C standard (which I believe is itself now obsoleteded by some ISA standard) specifies the pin numbers for a serial connector, but does not specify the DB25 connector. There are 'standard' connectors, even some tied to specific electrical signal types, but there are very few "standard" d-type connectors, unless you mean a defacto standard. > : // marc > > -tony > > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: Marco S Hyman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: 11 Sep 1998 00:38:32 -0700 Organization: S.N.A.F.U. (www.snafu.org) Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <699.555T590T8324151@sky.bus.com> <6t984k$12b@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> <6t9s7l$lr0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dumbcat.codewright.com X-Trace: 905499516 18371 marc 206.86.0.12 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news1.best.com!nntp2.ba.best.com!not-for-mail stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us writes: > What do you mean by the phrase "officially" though? The RS-232C standard > (which I believe is itself now obsoleteded by some ISA standard) specifies the > pin numbers for a serial connector, but does not specify the DB25 connector. > There are 'standard' connectors, even some tied to specific electrical signal > types, but there are very few "standard" d-type connectors, unless you mean a > defacto standard. EIA-232-D (December 85) Section 3.2 is titled Interface Connector and includes several figures with dimensions of both DTE and DCE connectors. My copy is the "Final Draft" so the actual spec may be different... but not that much different. The forward to the draft (not part of the spec) mentions that the revision to the older RS-232-C reflects the addition of a specification for the 25 pin interface connector. // marc ###### Message-ID: <35F95521.2F9@gazonk.del> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:51:45 -0400 From: "Foobar T. Clown" Reply-To: foobar@gazonk.del Organization: Blurp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <699.555T590T8324151@sky.bus.com> <6t984k$12b@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.133.110.49 X-Trace: 11 Sep 1998 12:54:03 -0500, 198.133.110.49 Lines: 17 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!zeus.nomos.com!198.133.110.49 Tony Duell wrote: > > The standard D connectors are > > [...] Where do you get this info? Who named the connector shells? Are they an official standard, or a de-facto standard, or are they some company's trademark, or what? Since this thread started, I've been looking in catalogs and reference books, and they all call the 9 pin connector that is conventionally used for IBM-PC serial ports "DB9." Somebody initially equated "DB9" with "ASC2." Well, I've never heard of anybody writing "ASC2" except for a few, clueless journalists, but everybody seems to write "DB9." ###### From: shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: 11 Sep 1998 18:01:31 GMT Organization: TRIUMF, Canada's National Meson Facility Lines: 37 Message-ID: <6tbohr$6c0$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t984k$12b@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> <35F95521.2F9@gazonk.del> NNTP-Posting-Host: alph02.triumf.ca Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!alph02.triumf.ca!shoppa In article <35F95521.2F9@gazonk.del>, Foobar T. Clown wrote: >Tony Duell wrote: >> The standard D connectors are > >Where do you get this info? Who named the connector shells? Are they >an official standard, or a de-facto standard, or are they some company's >trademark, or what? The best references I've found are the Cinch D-sub-line product catalog and the catalogs put out by Cinch distributors. >Since this thread started, I've been looking in catalogs and reference >books, and they all call the 9 pin connector that is conventionally used >for IBM-PC serial ports "DB9." Heh. You think these folks know any better? Microcomputer folks also run SCSI signals over DB-25 connectors, too; this doesn't mean they have any idea what they're doing. >Somebody initially equated "DB9" with "ASC2." That, indeed, was me :-) >Well, I've never heard of >anybody writing "ASC2" except for a few, clueless journalists, I've commonly seen it, along with ASC-11, in advertising material and supposed "technical" resources, such as ones you might find in the computer section of a local bookstore. >but everybody seems to write "DB9." Yep - that's my point. Just like all the ads you find in newspapers every day for "200 mHz" computers. Tim. ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:39:52 GMT Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here Lines: 23 Message-ID: <35f9be9e.30143895@news.vip.net> References: <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6t3m8l$3r5$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.50 X-Trace: 905578491 A01OARAUVD432CCD1C usenet54.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) wrote: >In article <6t2b95$2aa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, wrote: >>Hello! I would like to buy a 400mhz processor for as little as possible. > >You're in luck - just about any technlogy can deliver a 400 milliHerz >CPU rather easily. Electromechanical relays can easily keep up at >this rate. > >(In my book, "mHz" ranks up there with "ASC-2" and "DB-9"...) For appreciation by the most - even a suit or technopeasant might laugh at this one after it's explained - I like the "six" editor myself. ("vi" is six in Roman Numerals.) Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WTB: 400mhz processor Date: 13 Sep 1998 13:05:36 GMT Message-ID: <6tgfv0$kbj$4@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <35f9be9e.30143895@news.vip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-035.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: irk.zetnet.co.uk 905691936 20851 194.247.41.43 (13 Sep 1998 13:05:36 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Sep 1998 13:05:36 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Lines: 9 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1998-09-12 genew@vip.net said: :For appreciation by the most - even a suit or technopeasant might :laugh at this one after it's explained - I like the "six" editor :myself. ("vi" is six in Roman Numerals.) I think 'six' would be a perfect name for an editor. Especially one that followed the general pattern of vi, but was simpler...