From: Shez Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Real programmers don't eat quiche Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:55:56 +0100 Organization: a thousand miles from home Message-ID: <0D9zBFA8JJ51EwTy@xerez.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 904172253 nnrp-03:22402 NO-IDENT xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-no-archive: yes X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 <9FgOrw9VDnoWw5u6G$E+J$TGuf> Lines: 25 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.nacamar.de!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!sun4nl!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!xerez.demon.co.uk!Gnus If anyone wants to read this legendary article, I now have a copy on my putative website, three pages of which have just been opened for beta- test custom. GOTO http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk and click on the phrase "lost links". I'm currently missing the references section of the article (if there was one), if anyone has them I'd appreciate it. I have a feeling they are on a teletype printout someone gave me of this article c.1980 but it's lost in the cellar somewhere. The original version I had was in ALL CAPS, but I've so far resisted the temptation to convert my online version to suit. Should I, shouldn't I.... (BTW the reason I don't give a specific page ref. above is that it would be nice if the counter on my homepage reached double figures before the year end.) -Shez. -- _________________________________________________________________________ Fudd's First Law of Opposition: Push something hard enough and it will fall over. _________________________________________________________________________ Email to Gnus will be rejected: if replying by email, address it to Shez. (c)Shez asserts the moral rights of authorship under the Berne Convention ###### From: Shez Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Real programmers don't eat quiche Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:42:42 +0100 Organization: a thousand miles from home Message-ID: References: <0D9zBFA8JJ51EwTy@xerez.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 904180958 nnrp-10:565 NO-IDENT xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 <9FgOrw9VDnoWw5u6G$E+J$TGuf> Lines: 15 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!btnet-peer!btnet!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!sun4nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!xs4all!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!xerez.demon.co.uk!Gnus TheCentralScrutinizer.82@pobox.com of Nyx Public Access Internet writes: >The version I remember was ... called >"real programmers don't use pascal": My god you're right! I'd totally forgotten. The version I got off a BBS is just called "The Real Programmer", which I knew wasn't the cononical name. -Shez. _________________________________________________________________________ Fudd's First Law of Opposition: Push something hard enough and it will fall over. _________________________________________________________________________ Email to Gnus will be rejected: if replying by email, address it to Shez. (c)Shez asserts the moral rights of authorship under the Berne Convention ###### From: wyart@efrei.fr (Damien Wyart) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Real programmers don't eat quiche Date: 27 Aug 1998 06:59:19 GMT Organization: Ecole Francaise d'Electronique et d'Informatique Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <0D9zBFA8JJ51EwTy@xerez.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: turner.efrei.fr NNTP-Posting-User: wyart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.5.2pl1 UNIX) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!oleane!efrei.fr!wyart On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:42:42 +0100, Shez wrote: >>The version I remember was ... called >>"real programmers don't use pascal": >My god you're right! I'd totally forgotten. The version I got off a BBS >is just called "The Real Programmer", which I knew wasn't the cononical >name. I think the original article was published by Datamation. You can have a look at -- Damien WYART / wyart@efrei.fr / Feed the ASCII snails ! \@ \@ ____ \ / @ \ / @ \ / @ \ / @ / (with trailing whitespaces, \@ \ i | o| O @@@ O @@@ O @@@ O @@@ / silly quotes, or obfuscated \@ |>#McQer# \@@@ \@@@ \@@@ \@@@ / email addresses ;-) \@ \@ \@ /(_______) ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Real programmers don't eat quiche Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:33:17 +0000 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <35E50BBD.2E4B57D4@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <0D9zBFA8JJ51EwTy@xerez.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 904254297 nnrp-09:11280 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 16 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Shez wrote: > > If anyone wants to read this legendary article, I now have a copy on my > putative website, three pages of which have just been opened for beta- Interesting website. The tags make the html source easier to read than the actual pages. BTW I think they are spelled borogoves without the R, but I could be wrong. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Real programmers don't eat quiche Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:33:17 +0000 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <35E50BBD.2E4B57D4@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <0D9zBFA8JJ51EwTy@xerez.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 904254297 nnrp-09:11280 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 16 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Shez wrote: > > If anyone wants to read this legendary article, I now have a copy on my > putative website, three pages of which have just been opened for beta- Interesting website. The tags make the html source easier to read than the actual pages. BTW I think they are spelled borogoves without the R, but I could be wrong. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### From: Shez Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Real programmers don't eat quiche Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:07:04 +0100 Organization: a thousand miles from home Message-ID: References: <0D9zBFA8JJ51EwTy@xerez.demon.co.uk> <35E50BBD.2E4B57D4@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 904268215 nnrp-08:28921 NO-IDENT xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 <9FgOrw9VDnoWw5u6G$E+J$TGuf> Lines: 54 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!xerez.demon.co.uk!Gnus Robert Billing of Tanglewood writes: >Shez wrote: >> >> If anyone wants to read this legendary article, I now have a copy on my >> putative website, three pages of which have just been opened for beta- > > Interesting website. The tags make the html source easier to >read than the actual pages. But of course: that's how real programmers always read websites. People who rely on a WYSIWYG browser to read my site will miss out on all the jokes! (And in fact most of the text, period.) > > BTW I think they are spelled borogoves without the R, but I could be >wrong. > So it is. I was paraphrasing from memory and Qedit doesn't even have a normal spellchecker, never mind one with a Lewis Carroll user dictionary. And of course, the present tense of "outgrabe" is "outgribe", but it wouldn't have rhymed with "wabe" anymore so I exercised poetic licence and left it was it was in the original. (BTW you can hear a chupacabras outgribing on the fortean page). Fans of television will be pleased to know that I'll have a full-size (768x576) screengrab of a PAL testcard up just as soon as I've changed over to my non-inauguration ceremony homepage, at which point I hope to be eligible to join the Useless Webring, which you can check out via HTTP://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=useless;list;page=1 Finally, the Real Programmer page will ultimately be just a sub-page of the YKYBHTL table in Cafe Shez (which incidentally stocks only damn' fine coffee and Jolt Cola--only those living in wibble wibble world are likely to get served though*). I have a few YKYBHTL sayings I've collected over the years but all donations will be gratefully accepted. Contributors are eligible to become patrons of the cafe, with their YKYBHTL experience shown as a caption for their mugshot (if supplied). * But if anyone has the URL of a Jolt Cola machine I'll happily include a link to it. In fact I'll settle for any coffee or cola machine. I'd also like to offer an up-to-date list of Jolt Cola stockists. To kick this off, does anyone know if the UK "7-11" chain of shops still sell it? Last couple of times I looked they seemed to be out of stock. -Shez. -- _________________________________________________________________________ Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else. _________________________________________________________________________ Email to Gnus will be rejected: if replying by email, address it to Shez. (c)Shez asserts the moral rights of authorship under the Berne Convention Cafe Shez under construction: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk ###### From: Shez Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Real programmers don't eat quiche Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:07:04 +0100 Organization: a thousand miles from home Message-ID: References: <0D9zBFA8JJ51EwTy@xerez.demon.co.uk> <35E50BBD.2E4B57D4@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 904268215 nnrp-08:28921 NO-IDENT xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 <9FgOrw9VDnoWw5u6G$E+J$TGuf> Lines: 54 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!xerez.demon.co.uk!Gnus Robert Billing of Tanglewood writes: >Shez wrote: >> >> If anyone wants to read this legendary article, I now have a copy on my >> putative website, three pages of which have just been opened for beta- > > Interesting website. The tags make the html source easier to >read than the actual pages. But of course: that's how real programmers always read websites. People who rely on a WYSIWYG browser to read my site will miss out on all the jokes! (And in fact most of the text, period.) > > BTW I think they are spelled borogoves without the R, but I could be >wrong. > So it is. I was paraphrasing from memory and Qedit doesn't even have a normal spellchecker, never mind one with a Lewis Carroll user dictionary. And of course, the present tense of "outgrabe" is "outgribe", but it wouldn't have rhymed with "wabe" anymore so I exercised poetic licence and left it was it was in the original. (BTW you can hear a chupacabras outgribing on the fortean page). Fans of television will be pleased to know that I'll have a full-size (768x576) screengrab of a PAL testcard up just as soon as I've changed over to my non-inauguration ceremony homepage, at which point I hope to be eligible to join the Useless Webring, which you can check out via HTTP://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=useless;list;page=1 Finally, the Real Programmer page will ultimately be just a sub-page of the YKYBHTL table in Cafe Shez (which incidentally stocks only damn' fine coffee and Jolt Cola--only those living in wibble wibble world are likely to get served though*). I have a few YKYBHTL sayings I've collected over the years but all donations will be gratefully accepted. Contributors are eligible to become patrons of the cafe, with their YKYBHTL experience shown as a caption for their mugshot (if supplied). * But if anyone has the URL of a Jolt Cola machine I'll happily include a link to it. In fact I'll settle for any coffee or cola machine. I'd also like to offer an up-to-date list of Jolt Cola stockists. To kick this off, does anyone know if the UK "7-11" chain of shops still sell it? Last couple of times I looked they seemed to be out of stock. -Shez. -- _________________________________________________________________________ Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else. _________________________________________________________________________ Email to Gnus will be rejected: if replying by email, address it to Shez. (c)Shez asserts the moral rights of authorship under the Berne Convention Cafe Shez under construction: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk ###### From: yuska@bgs.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Real programmers don't eat quiche Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 20:53:41 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 50 Message-ID: <6shmsl$bao$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <0D9zBFA8JJ51EwTy@xerez.demon.co.uk> <35E50BBD.2E4B57D4@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.165.159.3 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Sep 01 20:53:41 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x9.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 204.165.159.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article , Shez wrote: > Robert Billing of Tanglewood writes: > >Shez wrote: > >> > >> If anyone wants to read this legendary article, I now have a copy on my > >> putative website, three pages of which have just been opened for beta- > > > > Interesting website. The tags make the html source easier to > >read than the actual pages. > > But of course: that's how real programmers always read websites. People > who rely on a WYSIWYG browser to read my site will miss out on all the > jokes! (And in fact most of the text, period.) > > > > > BTW I think they are spelled borogoves without the R, but I could be > >wrong. > > > > So it is. I was paraphrasing from memory and Qedit doesn't even have a > normal spellchecker, never mind one with a Lewis Carroll user > dictionary. And of course, the present tense of "outgrabe" is > "outgribe", but it wouldn't have rhymed with "wabe" anymore so I > exercised poetic licence and left it was it was in the original. > (BTW you can hear a chupacabras outgribing on the fortean page). >(non-carroll stuff deleted.) > -Shez. > > -- > _________________________________________________________________________ > Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Email to Gnus will be rejected: if replying by email, address it to Shez. > (c)Shez asserts the moral rights of authorship under the Berne Convention > Cafe Shez under construction: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk > I don't have my Dodgson collection here, so I altavista'd for borogroves and borogoves. borogroves--- 169 borogoves--- 692 Joe "the vorpal blade went snickersnack" Yuska -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: David Brown Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Real programmers don't eat quiche Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:21:22 +0000 Organization: Un*X LiVeS Lines: 24 Message-ID: <35EE89C2.F604E2CD@localhost.NOSPAM> References: <0D9zBFA8JJ51EwTy@xerez.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: unknown013224.rev.telstra-mm.net.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i686) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!news2-server.c3.telstra-mm.net.au!not-for-mail Wonderfull post. I remember reading this waaay back in the early 80's Ahh the memory of the way things used to be like. Shez wrote: > If anyone wants to read this legendary article, I now have a copy on my > putative website, three pages of which have just been opened for beta- > test custom. GOTO http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk and click on the phrase > "lost links". > -- ================================================================= David Brown, vk3dxl Email mailto:djbrown@vic.bigpond.net.au Melbourne, Australia. Powered By Linux http://www.linuxhq.com ================================================================= ###### From: Shez Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Real programmers don't eat quiche Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:09:36 +0100 Organization: a thousand miles from home Message-ID: References: <0D9zBFA8JJ51EwTy@xerez.demon.co.uk> <35EE89C2.F604E2CD@localhost.NOSPAM> NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 904846293 nnrp-09:26017 NO-IDENT xerez.demon.co.uk:193.237.22.174 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 <9FgOrw9VDnoWw5u6G$E+J$TGuf> Lines: 42 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter.cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsfeed2.de.ibm.net!newsm2.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!xerez.demon.co.uk!Gnus David Brown of Un*X LiVeS writes: >Wonderfull post. >I remember reading this waaay back in the early 80's >Ahh the memory of the way things used to be like. > >Shez wrote: > >> If anyone wants to read this legendary article, I now have a copy on my >> putative website, three pages of which have just been opened for beta- >> test custom. GOTO http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk and click on the phrase >> "lost links". I should point out that it's now reached as follows: Goto , enter Cafe Shez, click on microwaved CDROM pic to goto the hackers table, then select the "Real Programmers" link. I've now added the references gleaned from copies of the article on two other websites, but I'm still dubious about them as I think they post-date the original article, which I'm pretty sure I originally saw in 1979/80, at which time the article had already achieved legendary status. (Some of the refs. are dated 1982). The hackers table also has a full size technicolour pic of the microwaved CDROM that was posted to afc a couple of years ago, just click on the small image and the page will refresh with the big pic. Oh yes, this page also has a GIF movie of Bill Gates saying hello to a custard pie (shamelessly purloined from another website). Also, on the cafe menu, select "Jolt Cola" for my programmers' supplies page. I'd like to maintain an up to date listing of where people can get Jolt Cola and any other essential supplies (suggestions welcome - where to get the best Java coffee maybe?). Mail me at "CafeShez" or just post them to afc on this thread. Also if anyone has URLs for online vending machines I'll add them to that page. -Shez. -- _________________________________________________________________________ I haven't lost my mind - it's backed up on floppy somewhere. _________________________________________________________________________ Email to Gnus will be rejected: if replying by email, address it to Shez. (c)Shez asserts the moral rights of authorship under the Berne Convention ###### From: thvv@best.com (Tom Van Vleck) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Real Programmers Don't Write Specs Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:44:19 -0800 Organization: Multicians Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <6cpsp0$7sv$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6cptmg$8dt$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <6cqsul$og7$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: thvv.vip.best.com X-Trace: 888216264 13687 (none) 206.86.0.12 X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.1 X-url: http://www.best.com/~thvv/multics.html Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!europa.clark.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.156.128.20!news1.best.com!nntp2.ba.best.com!thvv In article <6cqsul$og7$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) wrote: > Circa 1983 or so, REAL PROGRS from the MC vaults. I wrote this in 1982, after I had left the Multics group and was working in Calfornia. I was thinking of particular colleagues and former colleagues for several of the paragraphs. For example, "pipe stress" refers to a large FORTRAN program at Universal Oil Products in Des Plaines Ill, and I was thining of Noel Morris when I wrote > Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers are > around at 9 AM, it's because they were up all night.