From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903562951@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 32 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:26:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903564080 209.146.155.2 (Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:01:20 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:01:20 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim MWW@MICROFOCUS.COM wrote: MM>Personally, I prefer computers that look "crappy", or what I'm >assuming you'd consider crappy - boxy and beige - and I don't care >for the iMac's appearance at all. Books, plants, furniture I like >pretty. Appliances and other mechanisms I like plain. [snip] I hate some of the new looks of computers. I love the CEI 286 desktop case I stuck my 386DX40 motherboard in. It's beige, with a light grey plastic front, two 5.25" drive bay holes at the far right, at the far left at the top is a small panel with the kybd lock, reset button, turbo switch, tubo LED, power LED, and hard drive LED. Underneath running from the extreme far left right up to the right side of the drive bay holes are about 12 horizontal grooves, which are air vents. I love that look much better than those curved or whatever new computers. An electronic device should be in a rectangular box, with square corners. At least that's the way I want it and when I get my Pentium motherboard some century I'm sticking it in my CEI 286 case! :) TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org Note: due to some features removed by the newsgroup access BBS I use, replies might not be sent out correctly. Please quote my email address in replies, and if possible (not necessarily required though), keep the subject length to 25 characters or less. * 1st 2.00 ~ Fatal error: need routing information to send reply! ###### From: Chuck McManis Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:24:57 -0700 Lines: 21 Message-ID: <35DCB049.AB7C4815@freegate.com> References: <903562951@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.226.86.180 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.clark.net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.wli.net!198.6.0.85!uunet!uunet!uunet!in1.uu.net!not-for-mail Then again, what does the tubo[sic] switch do anyway? On one mother board I found it wired to the turbo-LED connector (it basically turned on turbo LED or switched the display from 133 to 8) And the keyswitch? Now if the PC market wasn't driven by a zillion separate clone makers all trying to "add value" and "stay compatible" (too distinctly at odds requirements) there might be something useful we could do like disable the reset button and the eject button on my Jaz and CD-ROM drives. Then my 3 yr old wouldn't come along mid-compile and eject my media. (she likes to see it flash the light then make the "whizzing sound" when she pushes it back in :-) Now that would make the keyswitch useful... Justin Frim wrote: > I hate some of the new looks of computers. I love the CEI 286 desktop > case I stuck my 386DX40 motherboard in. It's beige, with a light grey > plastic front, two 5.25" drive bay holes at the far right, at the far > left at the top is a small panel with the kybd lock, reset button, > turbo switch, tubo LED, power LED, and hard drive LED. ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 09:08:51 +0000 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <35DD3923.25ED77F@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <903562951@ablelink.org> <35DCB049.AB7C4815@freegate.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 903692623 nnrp-04:15227 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 24 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Chuck McManis wrote: > > Then again, what does the tubo[sic] switch do anyway? On one mother I've put the connector on the turbo switch on to the middle SCSI select bit on the hard drive, so that I have the choice from the front panel of either booting with HD and Jaz as 0 and 1 or 2 and 1. Since the Adaptec card boots from the first SCSI it finds, this gives me a choice of booting from HD or cartridge, which means that the OSes I rarely use (anything from M$) can be relegated to zip files on CDRs. All I have to do is bring up linux, unzip the OS onto a cartridge, reboot with the turbo switch in, and I can play Bumpkins for '95. > requirements) there might be something useful we could do like disable > the reset button and the eject button on my Jaz and CD-ROM drives. Then Aren't they always disabled when mounted? What version of linux are you running anyway? :=*) -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### From: Ian Stirling <000035DD88AB.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:48:11 +0100 Organization: None. Message-ID: <000035DD88AB.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> References: <903562951@ablelink.org> <35DCB049.AB7C4815@freegate.com> <35DD3923.25ED77F@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 903730959 mail2news:27755 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-11.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net![158.152.209.66]!mauve.demon.co.uk User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971106 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.34 (i586)) X-Note: Anti-UCE in effect, replying should work if you are not UCE'ng X-Warning0: For unsolicited commercial email, sent or causing to be sent to my email address X-Warning1: on this message, I reserve the right to levy a charge for my time and expenses X-Warning2: of up to 100 pounds sterling per message, plus legal, penalty or other costs. Lines: 19 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Robert Billing wrote: : Chuck McManis wrote: :> :> Then again, what does the tubo[sic] switch do anyway? On one mother : I've put the connector on the turbo switch on to the middle SCSI select : bit on the hard drive, so that I have the choice from the front panel of : either booting with HD and Jaz as 0 and 1 or 2 and 1. Since the Adaptec I've used it in the past, connected to a SCSI write protect jumper, on a drive supporting this, for when I want to run something I know may contain viruses/trojans. -- See http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ |Linux PDA, cheap electronics/PC bits sale. See_header,_for_UCE_policy___________|_____________________________Ian_Stirling. Paranoia: A game for the whole family, and anyone else who might be watching. ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903723205@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 45 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:56:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903726090 209.146.155.2 (Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:01:30 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:01:30 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.nntp.acc.ca!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim CMCMANIS@FREEGATE.COM wrote: CM>Then again, what does the tubo[sic] switch do anyway? On one mother >board I found it wired to the turbo-LED connector (it basically turned >on turbo LED or switched the display from 133 to 8) And the keyswitch? CM>Now if the PC market wasn't driven by a zillion separate clone makers >all trying to "add value" and "stay compatible" (too distinctly at odds >requirements) there might be something useful we could do like disable >the reset button and the eject button on my Jaz and CD-ROM drives. Then >my 3 yr old wouldn't come along mid-compile and eject my media. (she >likes to see it flash the light then make the "whizzing sound" when she >pushes it back in :-) CM>Now that would make the keyswitch useful... Haha! Personally, I don't think a numeric display on the front of the computer is worth it... on every machine I've seen, the 7-segment LED display is hard-wired to only display two (or rarely 3) different values. Why you can't just have 1 (or 2) LED's is beyond me... cool looks maybe? I don't know... But on my 40MHz 386 DX the turbo switch changes which crystal the CPU is run on. Mind you I hardly ever turn off the turbo switch... to me, lowering the CPU speed is like trading in your 400Mhz Pentium II for a 4.77MHz 8088! They keyboard lock on a lot of computers apparently does something on the kybd bios to disable all keyboard input.. but when I got my CEI computer case, the switch was already in the lock position and I don't have the key. I could have simply removed one of the wires from the plug, but to my surprise I found that both the 286 motherboard which was in the case when I got it, and my 386 motherboard which I replaced it with, don't seem to care about the keylock! So for me, the little chrome circle on the front of the computer makes for a cheap mirror... that's about it's only purpose in my opinion... ;) Hey, I'm sure your daughter isn't as destructive as my cousin... once he pushed a sharp metal probe right through the media in two of my 5.25" disks! I never could figure out why he did that... TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Fatal error: need routing information to send reply! ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903844069@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 21 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:10:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903844953 209.146.155.2 (Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:02:33 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:02:33 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.nntp.acc.ca!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim BCOOK@WANTREE.COM.AU wrote: BU>if you want the ultimate in wankey case design have a look at >an SGI O2. These are a completely *stupid* design obviously >produced my a marketing department, managed by a pointy haired boss. *l* That reminds me, I still have an old Texas Instruments TI-99/4A computer. Even though it is built like any other early computer, where the CPU and keyboard is one unit and people used their TV set as a video monitor, the classic aluminum and black plastic case does have a cool look to it! (I wonder what the later beige and black plastic TI-99/4A's looked like...) But I think one of the all-time ugliest computer devices, at least that I've heard of, is the Lear Seigler ADM-3 terminal... TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Laughter is internal jogging! ###### From: David Scheidt Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: 21 Aug 1998 19:49:01 GMT Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Lines: 11 Message-ID: <6rkivd$4op$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <903723205@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.143.6 X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 970115] Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!dscheidt Justin Frim wrote: : looks maybe? I don't know... But on my 40MHz 386 DX the turbo switch : changes which crystal the CPU is run on. Mind you I hardly ever turn : off the turbo switch... to me, lowering the CPU speed is like trading : in your 400Mhz Pentium II for a 4.77MHz 8088! They keyboard lock on a That is exactly the point. There was code written for the 8088 machines that knew how long it took to run, and took advantage of that. If you wanted to run it on a faster machine, you needed to slow the machine down. David "" Scheidt ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: 21 Aug 1998 23:01:55 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <903562951@ablelink.org> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Bruce Cook writes: > > if you want the ultimate in wankey case design have a look at > an SGI O2. These are a completely *stupid* design obviously > produced my a marketing department, managed by a pointy haired boss. Wankey? Absolutely cool! SGI is one of the few firms the think a computer can look like more than an tasteless box. Neil "administers 20 O2s at work, but use one of 7 Indys" Franklin -- home: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ *** It's true ! I read it on Usenet and the Web ! *** ###### From: Shaw Terwilliger Subject: Re: Industrial design in Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <903562951@ablelink.org> Approved: Sure. User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980226 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.33 (i486)) NNTP-Posting-Host: vader.eresnet.com Message-ID: <35de1325.0@news.advancenet.net> Date: 22 Aug 98 00:39:01 GMT Lines: 17 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.central.agis.net!agis!news.advancenet.net!vader.eresnet.com!sterwill Neil Franklin wrote: > Bruce Cook writes: >> if you want the ultimate in wankey case design have a look at >> an SGI O2. These are a completely *stupid* design obviously >> produced my a marketing department, managed by a pointy haired boss. > Wankey? Absolutely cool! > SGI is one of the few firms the think a computer can look like more > than an tasteless box. It looks OK--I think it looks good... but try stacking CDs on top of it. I haven't cracked one open, but I assume the rounded, ovoid design would impart a bit of difficulty to the maintenance of its guts. -- Shaw Terwilliger (ten.tenecnavda@giwt) ###### From: Bruce Cook Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: 22 Aug 1998 01:49:23 -0800 Organization: Synonet Corporation - The Bicycle Factory Message-ID: References: <903562951@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: per2-70.wantree.com.au X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Cache-Post-Path: cletus.smithst!unknown@donal.tara X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3b3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 32 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!194.159.73.9.MISMATCH!newshub.bart.net!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.per.connect.com.au!news.waia.asn.au!news.wantree.com.au!not-for-mail justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) writes: > > MWW@MICROFOCUS.COM wrote: > MM>Personally, I prefer computers that look "crappy", or what I'm > >assuming you'd consider crappy - boxy and beige - and I don't care > >for the iMac's appearance at all. Books, plants, furniture I like > >pretty. Appliances and other mechanisms I like plain. > [snip] > > I hate some of the new looks of computers. I love the CEI 286 desktop > case I stuck my 386DX40 motherboard in. It's beige, with a light grey > plastic front, two 5.25" drive bay holes at the far right, at the far > left at the top is a small panel with the kybd lock, reset button, > turbo switch, tubo LED, power LED, and hard drive LED. Underneath > running from the extreme far left right up to the right side of the > drive bay holes are about 12 horizontal grooves, which are air vents. > I love that look much better than those curved or whatever new > computers. An electronic device should be in a rectangular box, with > square corners. At least that's the way I want it and when I get my > Pentium motherboard some century I'm sticking it in my CEI 286 case! :) if you want the ultimate in wankey case design have a look at an SGI O2. These are a completely *stupid* design obviously produced my a marketing department, managed by a pointy haired boss. -- ...BRU Bruce Cook, Synonet Corp. E-Mail: bc3-au@bigfoot.com Phone: +61 147 967 468 Fax: +61 8 9227 7390 ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: 22 Aug 1998 01:49:48 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 24 Message-ID: <6rl83s$ds1@top.mitre.org> References: <903723205@ablelink.org> <6rkivd$4op$1@eve.enteract.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!news.idt.net!usenet.logical.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris David Scheidt writes: >Justin Frim wrote: >: looks maybe? I don't know... But on my 40MHz 386 DX the turbo switch >: changes which crystal the CPU is run on. Mind you I hardly ever turn >: off the turbo switch... to me, lowering the CPU speed is like trading >: in your 400Mhz Pentium II for a 4.77MHz 8088! They keyboard lock on a >That is exactly the point. There was code written for the 8088 machines >that knew how long it took to run, and took advantage of that. If you wanted >to run it on a faster machine, you needed to slow the machine down. I was going to make the same point, but there's a followup question: if the original reason for the switch to support the programs that "knew" that the clock speed was 4.77 MHz, what function does it serve in today's world? There *are* programs still in use that were written when the 8088 was still the "standard" (and some of them are on my systems because they work as well or better than today's bloated "graphical" products) -- but are there really any programs in use on current-production systems where there is any need to throttle the CPU clock below its rated speed? Especially when there's no standard on what the "slow" speed might be? Joe Morris ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: 22 Aug 1998 01:53:18 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 17 Message-ID: <6rl8ae$dtp@top.mitre.org> References: <903562951@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!169.132.11.200!news.idt.net!usenet.logical.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris Neil Franklin writes: >Bruce Cook writes: >> >> if you want the ultimate in wankey case design have a look at >> an SGI O2. These are a completely *stupid* design obviously >> produced my a marketing department, managed by a pointy haired boss. >Wankey? Absolutely cool! >SGI is one of the few firms the think a computer can look like more >than an tasteless box. And don't forget the original NeXT box, otherwise known as "Darth Vader's Air Freshener." Joe Morris ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: 22 Aug 1998 22:21:27 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <903562951@ablelink.org> <35de1325.0@news.advancenet.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Shaw Terwilliger writes: > > Neil Franklin wrote: > > SGI is one of the few firms the think a computer can look like more > > than an tasteless box. > > It looks OK--I think it looks good... but try stacking CDs on top of > it. Putting things on them can be problematical. > I haven't cracked one open, but I assume the rounded, ovoid design would > impart a bit of difficulty to the maintenance of its guts. Actually not at all. Processor board, HDs, IO interfaces, power supply can all be removed from the back side, without even opening the case. Just pull downwards the levers (a bit like taking out well designed S-100 or VME cards). Only the CD drive may be difficult (not tried that one yet). And yes, there is an locked metal Plate to prevent students dismantling it. -- home: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ *** It's true ! I read it on Usenet and the Web ! *** ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:46:42 +0200 Message-ID: From: peterk@combo.ganesha.com (Dr. Peter Kittel) Subject: Re: Industrial design in Reply-To: peterk @ combo.ganesha.com References: <903562951@ablelink.org> X-Newsreader: rn7.bas Lines: 17 Organization: Private Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.maz.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed.internetmci.com!134.222.90.2!EU.net!blackbush.xlink.net!ganesha.ganesha.com!shorter!combo.ganesha.com!peterk In article Bruce Cook writes: > >if you want the ultimate in wankey case design have a look at >an SGI O2. These are a completely *stupid* design obviously >produced my a marketing department, managed by a pointy haired boss. Ah, at that time I worked at Amiga Technologies, a Commodore successor. We wanted to bring out a last 68k-based model, before changing to PPC. This model was called "Walker" and had a case just like the O2. Practically everyone made only jokes about it, comparing it to a hoover, but some time later, we saw the first O2, looking just the same, and yes, the same people ridiculing the Walker "of course" glorified the "modern" O2 design. Oh boy. -- Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail: Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ peterk @ combo.ganesha.com ###### From: bill_h Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 06:18:06 -0700 Organization: StarNet Lines: 6 Message-ID: <35E0168E.3B53@sunsouthwest.com> References: <903562951@ablelink.org> Reply-To: bill_h@sunsouthwest.com NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup07ip042.tus.azstarnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: polaris.azstarnet.com 903878539 25205 169.197.33.42 (23 Aug 1998 13:22:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@azstarnet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Aug 1998 13:22:19 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win16; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.news.azstarnet.com!reader1.news.azstarnet.com!not-for-mail I sorta like the little stick that swings up to hold the Commodore PET open, like the similar one that holds the hood of a car open....... okay, //hood/bonnet //car/automobile where appropriate. ###### From: mkurtti@hiwaay.net (Marvin E. Kurtti) Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 07:48:02 -0500 Message-ID: References: <903723205@ablelink.org> <6rkivd$4op$1@eve.enteract.com> <6rl83s$ds1@top.mitre.org> Organization: mk Computers X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10.920 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: tnt3-5.HiWAAY.net [208.147.146.5] Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pet.hiwaay.net In article <6rl83s$ds1@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org says... (snip)-- but are there really > any programs in use on current-production systems where there is any need > to throttle the CPU clock below its rated speed? Especially when there's no > standard on what the "slow" speed might be? How about programs that flash you an error message for a micro-jiffy before they quit, leaving you with no idea of why the won't reu. Marv ###### From: bereza@pobox.com (Bill Bereza) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: 23 Aug 1998 13:50:31 PDT Organization: http://www.pobox.com/~bereza/ Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6rpvan$9rb@chronicle.concentric.net> References: <903723205@ablelink.org> <6rkivd$4op$1@eve.enteract.com> <6rl83s$ds1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: mariner.concentric.net Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news.freedom2surf.net!btnet-peer!btnet!newsfeed.corridex.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master In article , Marvin E. Kurtti wrote: >In article <6rl83s$ds1@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org says... >(snip)-- but are there really >> any programs in use on current-production systems where there is any need >> to throttle the CPU clock below its rated speed? Especially when there's no >> standard on what the "slow" speed might be? > >How about programs that flash you an error message for a micro-jiffy >before they quit, leaving you with no idea of why the won't reu. > On some newer motherboards the turbo switch, if it does anything, just turns off all caches. The clock speed is still the same. The difference is rarely noticeable. -- Bill Bereza bereza@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~bereza/ Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes. (H. D. Thoreau) ###### From: dg@ (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:54:18 GMT Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Message-ID: <903909258.26556.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> References: <903723205@ablelink.org> <6rkivd$4op$1@eve.enteract.com> <6rl83s$ds1@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 903909258 nnrp-09:26556 NO-IDENT taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 30 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!taos.demon.co.uk!!dg In article <6rl83s$ds1@top.mitre.org>, Joe Morris wrote: [...] >There *are* programs still in use that were written when the 8088 was still >the "standard" (and some of them are on my systems because they work as well >or better than today's bloated "graphical" products) -- but are there really >any programs in use on current-production systems where there is any need >to throttle the CPU clock below its rated speed? Especially when there's no >standard on what the "slow" speed might be? Games. If you look on Simtel, you'll find an ancient C system called PCC (Personal C Compiler). This is the smallest PC C compiler I know of. It's a K&R based system, with a rather minimalist library, and produces .COM files. One of it's demo programs is a version of Caterpillar, running in text mode. On my machine --- which is only a 486 --- this runs *so fast* that it gets through all five lives and reaches the "GAME OVER" message in a couple of seconds. This is what the Turbo button's for. (Pity it's not a very good game, though.) -- +- David Given ----------------+ | Work: dg@tao.co.uk | Defeat is worse than death, because | Play: dgiven@iname.com | you have to live with defeat. +- http://wiredsoc.ml.org/~dg -+ ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903919017@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 18 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:19:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903920468 209.146.155.2 (Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:01:08 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:01:08 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim DSCHEIDT@ENTERACT.COM wrote: DM>That is exactly the point. There was code written for the 8088 machines >that knew how long it took to run, and took advantage of that. If you wante >to run it on a faster machine, you needed to slow the machine down. But the "slow" speed on new computers is not as slow as the 4.77Mhz XT! I suppose it can help, but when I run my old PC games (way back when ppl ripped them from Atari and stuff), I run a program called SLOWER.COM, then run the game, then unload SLOWER.COM when I'm done. TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Ability OnLine - Our Teens know how to XPRESS themselves. ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903919018@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 26 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:23:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903920469 209.146.155.2 (Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:01:09 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:01:09 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.221.240.3!beaker.tor.sfl.net!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim Joe Morris (JCMORRIS@MWUNIX.MITRE.ORG) wrote: JG>There *are* programs still in use that were written when the 8088 was still >the "standard" (and some of them are on my systems because they work as well >or better than today's bloated "graphical" products) -- but are there really >any programs in use on current-production systems where there is any need >to throttle the CPU clock below its rated speed? Especially when there's no >standard on what the "slow" speed might be? Go through any Systems Analysis And Design type computer course, and you will be told that timer control is almost always the best way to regulate a program's speed. Because so many people are using a variety of machines, all with different CPU types and speeds. And some people might be multitasking, or running different versions of the O.S., or whatever. It's considered "dirty" to make a program "waste CPU cycles" as a speed regulating system, although unfortunately there are a lot of programs that do that, and they calibrate the optimum number of cycles to waste when they are first run. Of course, as soon as you launch another multitasking program, or quit one, after the program has started, that little calibration thing it did is now incorrect. TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Ability OnLine - Toronto Canada - (416) 650-5411 ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903919021@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 26 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:40:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903920470 209.146.155.2 (Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:01:10 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:01:10 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!209.98.98.32!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim AJSULLIV@MCMAIL.CIS.MCMAS wrote: AS>In article <6rf0eg$q1k@news1.newsguy.com>, >Michael Wojcik wrote: > [. . .] design encompasses a lot more than appearance (or aesthetics at AS>large). AS>Well, at least, _good_ design. Seems to me that most contemporary >architecture, automotive design, and the like suggest that many people >think there is a simple equation: design = howitlooks. Yes, but for me the rounded "bubble" shaped geometry of many modern sports cars turns me away from them. I miss the sleek angular geometry of many 80's sports cars. And I also miss the rectangular geometry of older computers... nice square cabinets with either vertical or horizontal flat air vents, etc. TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ My teddy bear says, "A good cuddle can change a grumpy day!" ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903919022@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 33 Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:50:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903920471 209.146.155.2 (Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:01:11 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:01:11 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!digex!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim LEE1089@KETTERING.EDU wrote: LU>Another possibility is backing up over the internet. Several services >exist already. You just pay a fee and all your stuff is backed up >somewhere where you don't have to worry about it. No stacks of floppies in >your house, no having to buy a special drive. Just connect and back up. If >something goes wrong and you lose your HD you just reinstall the OS from >the CD and then connect to the Internet to restore all your data. >(Obviously ethernet or ISDN helps but a 33.6k or 56k modem would still be >somewhat tolerable.) Sorry, I have to disagree with that. When I back up data, I want to know where it is at all times and have it in my possesion (sp?), and be able to physically place the media where I think it is safe. I would not trust some other remote server hundreds of km away run by people I don't even know for backing up my data. As for Steve Jobs mentioning that a floppy drive isn't much use these days, well, yes, he is correct. I wouldn't mind if a computer had a 1.44 floppy on the USB. Heck I remember a lot of the old IBM PC's had a DB-37 connecter on the back which was for an external SA-450 interface floppy! In fact I think I still have a cover plate somewhere with a DB-37 connecter, and on the other end is a 34-pin connecter to plug into the secondary floppy plug on the internal SA-450 floppy drive ribbon cable. TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Laughter is internal jogging! ###### Message-ID: <35DF6710.67B4@bellsouth.net> From: Gwizdak Reply-To: wazm@bellsouth.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-BLS20 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in References: <903723205@ablelink.org> <6rkivd$4op$1@eve.enteract.com> <6rl83s$ds1@top.mitre.org> <903909258.26556.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 00:58:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: host-209-214-132-182.jax.bellsouth.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:58:20 EST Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net!news4.mia.bellsouth.net.POSTED!not-for-mail David Given wrote: > If you look on Simtel, you'll find an ancient C system called PCC > (Personal C Compiler). This is the smallest PC C compiler I know of. It's > a K&R based system, with a rather minimalist library, and produces .COM > files. I remember PCC. In school, as the computers were not powerful and the harddrives were small.. we played with C using this compiler. Not school sponsored of course, but it was certainly better than Basic. > This is what the Turbo button's for. (Pity it's not a very good game, > though.) I have seen programs to slow down faster computers for such purposes. -- Optimizer of life. \ / main(){printf("Na razie. \n");} ----------><---------- -Gwizdak aka Wazm / \ http://www.crowsnest.dynip.com/~wazm ###### From: stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:23:40 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Message-ID: <6rrm0c$in2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <903919021@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.238.142.181 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Aug 24 12:23:40 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.05 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.34 i586) Lines: 37 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news-lond.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!209.150.160.22!newsfeed.wli.net!208.10.192.30!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <903919021@ablelink.org>, justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) wrote: > AJSULLIV@MCMAIL.CIS.MCMAS wrote: > AS>In article <6rf0eg$q1k@news1.newsguy.com>, > >Michael Wojcik wrote: > > > [. . .] design encompasses a lot more than appearance (or aesthetics at > AS>large). > > AS>Well, at least, _good_ design. Seems to me that most contemporary > >architecture, automotive design, and the like suggest that many people > >think there is a simple equation: design = howitlooks. > > Yes, but for me the rounded "bubble" shaped geometry of many modern > sports cars turns me away from them. I miss the sleek angular geometry > of many 80's sports cars. > The roundedness of computer enclosures is probably a fad. With automobiles, there are principles of aerodynamics at play. I consider the Ford Taurus design bloated and ugly personally, but it was designed to be aerodynamic as it's first criterion. Many "copycat" cars don't have the same degree of design, however. > And I also miss the rectangular geometry of older computers... nice > square cabinets with either vertical or horizontal flat air vents, etc. > > TTYL, > Justin Frim > > justin.frim@ablelink.org > > * 1st 2.00 ~ My teddy bear says, "A good cuddle can change a grumpy day!" > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:03:39 GMT Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here Lines: 45 Message-ID: <35e0e84e.15137525@news.vip.net> References: <903919018@ablelink.org> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.57 X-Trace: 903974479 A01OARAUVD439CCD1C usenet54.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newspeer.monmouth.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) wrote: >Joe Morris (JCMORRIS@MWUNIX.MITRE.ORG) wrote: >JG>There *are* programs still in use that were written when the 8088 was still > >the "standard" (and some of them are on my systems because they work as well > >or better than today's bloated "graphical" products) -- but are there really > >any programs in use on current-production systems where there is any need > >to throttle the CPU clock below its rated speed? Especially when there's no > >standard on what the "slow" speed might be? > >Go through any Systems Analysis And Design type computer course, and >you will be told that timer control is almost always the best way to >regulate a program's speed. Because so many people are using a variety >of machines, all with different CPU types and speeds. And some people >might be multitasking, or running different versions of the O.S., or >whatever. It's considered "dirty" to make a program "waste CPU cycles" >as a speed regulating system, although unfortunately there are a lot of >programs that do that, and they calibrate the optimum number of cycles >to waste when they are first run. Of course, as soon as you launch >another multitasking program, or quit one, after the program has >started, that little calibration thing it did is now incorrect. I prefer clean code myself, but I will break rules as I see fit to meet requirements. I like to keep the rule breaking to a minimum. The argument for the Dark Side is: Yes, but. It might take more time to set and check the timers than to have the delay loops. If you are going for maximum speed with smooth motion (as seems to be the case for games), clean, friendly programming may/often/generally/?always take(s) a backseat to speed. In present time, how many ads have you seen bragging about how clean the code for the company's game is vs. how many frames per second? Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### Date: 24 Aug 98 16:48:54 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: Industrial design in References: <903994749@ablelink.org> Message-ID: <325.540T2702T10085791@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 10 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.116 In article <903994749@ablelink.org> justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) writes: >write a fast speed regulated program in Microsucks QuickBASIC. ^^^^^^^^^^ YM QuirkBASIC. HTH. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: "Samael" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:32:59 +0100 Lines: 26 Message-ID: <6rs4os$gou$2@heliodor.xara.net> References: <903919018@ablelink.org> <35e0e84e.15137525@news.vip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.147.12.73 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!btnet-peer!btnet!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.itg.net.uk!usenet Gene Wirchenko wrote in message <35e0e84e.15137525@news.vip.net>... >justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) wrote: > >>Joe Morris (JCMORRIS@MWUNIX.MITRE.ORG) wrote: >>JG>There *are* programs still in use that were written when the 8088 was still >> >the "standard" (and some of them are on my systems because they work as well >> >or better than today's bloated "graphical" products) -- but are there really >> >any programs in use on current-production systems where there is any need >> >to throttle the CPU clock below its rated speed? Especially when there's no >> >standard on what the "slow" speed might be? Incidentally, Microsoft Foxpro v2.6 was written in Watcom C++ and inherited a design flaw that causes a divide by zero on fast machines (300MHz+), because they were trying to time the system when it started up... Samael ###### From: alex*@*rockvax.rockefeller.edu (Alexandre Pechtchanski) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Organization: Rockefeller University Hospital (GCRC), New York Message-ID: <35e7b323.15877263@Rockyd> References: <903919018@ablelink.org> <35e0e84e.15137525@news.vip.net> <6rs4os$gou$2@heliodor.xara.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:43:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.85.24.56 X-Trace: rockyd.rockefeller.edu 903984212 129.85.24.56 (Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:43:32 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:43:32 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed.nyu.edu!rockyd.rockefeller.edu!not-for-mail On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:32:59 +0100, "Samael" wrote: [ Courtesy cc'ed through e-mail to the quoted author ] [ snip ] >Incidentally, Microsoft Foxpro v2.6 was written in Watcom C++ and inherited >a design flaw that causes a divide by zero on fast machines (300MHz+), >because they were trying to time the system when it started up... No, it is "originally FoxPro was written in Watcom C". From what I've heard at the time, when Microsoft bought Fox they tried to re-compile FoxPro in Microsoft C, but couldn't. So all Watcom C stuff, including this error, was inherited until first _Microsoft_ version (Visual FoxPro) appeared. Rather embarrassing for the company that proclaims itself "main source of development tools and compilers". [ When replying, remove *'s from address ] Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY ###### From: jav-2@world.net.att.net (John Varela) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: 24 Aug 1998 19:27:59 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <903919021@ablelink.org> <6rrm0c$in2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Reply-To: jav-2@world.net.att.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.68.77.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: ProNews/2 Version 1.00 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.225!attworldnet!newsadm On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:23:40, stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us wrote: > there are principles of aerodynamics at play. I consider the Ford Taurus > design bloated and ugly personally, but it was designed to be aerodynamic as The Taurus looks like something a Hobbit would drive. -- John Varela (delete . between world and net to e-mail me) ####### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903994747@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 24 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:16:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903996092 209.146.155.2 (Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:32 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:32 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!205.197.251.110!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!digex!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim UNCLEBOB@TNGLWOOD.DEMON.C wrote: UC>John Varela wrote: UC>> I would guess that school labs prohibit removable media because of concern >> viruses. Sounds reasonable to me. UC> If they were concerned about that, they would simply upgrade to Linux >and have done with it. *l* yeah, I could just imagine the graphic arts students being taught how to use Linux... ...and the life arts students being taught advanced physics, and the mathematics students learning drama, etc. ;) TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903994748@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 24 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:20:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903996092 209.146.155.2 (Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:32 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:32 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newshub.northeast.verio.net!ix.netcom.com!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim STEVENSS@FREENET.MSP.MN.U wrote: SU>The roundedness of computer enclosures is probably a fad. With automobiles, >there are principles of aerodynamics at play. I consider the Ford Taurus >design bloated and ugly personally, but it was designed to be aerodynamic as >it's first criterion. Many "copycat" cars don't have the same degree of >design, however. Yeah, that's true. Athough angular geometry sports cars aren't _that_ bad... Have you seen some of the prototype electric cars at various automotive shows? I think the Ford Taurus looks a lot more appealing than some of those other funky creations... (although electric cars do have to be very aerodynamic and lightweight, because we currently don't have batteries with a high enough power to weight ratio for most out-of-city driving.) TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Fatal error: need routing information to send reply! ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903994749@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 29 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:27:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903996093 209.146.155.2 (Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:33 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:33 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.clark.net!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!News.Toronto.iSTAR.net!news.istar.net!NewsRead.Toronto.iSTAR.net!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim GENEW@VIP.NET wrote: GT> It might take more time to set and check the timers than to have >the delay loops. If you are going for maximum speed with smooth >motion (as seems to be the case for games), clean, friendly >programming may/often/generally/?always take(s) a backseat to speed. GT> In present time, how many ads have you seen bragging about how >clean the code for the company's game is vs. how many frames per >second? Yes, that's where "wasting cycles" seems to be used a lot. But it also depends on the programming language. I remember years ago I had to write a fast speed regulated program in Microsucks QuickBASIC. Using the TIMER function was just WAY to slow after about 50 fractions of a second. A few years later, I worked with some other people to make a game with Borland Turbo C++. I tried using timer control, and it worked great. The graphics were smooth, and this was still running under Microsucks Winblows! (although the game didn't have stunning 3d graphics or any of that stuff... it was 2 dimensional, and used the 640x480x256 super VGA graphics mode) TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Ability OnLine - Our Kids know how to XPRESS themselves. ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903994750@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 27 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:33:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903996093 209.146.155.2 (Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:33 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:33 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim SAMAEL@DIAL.PIPEX.COM wrote: SM>Incidentally, Microsoft Foxpro v2.6 was written in Watcom C++ and inherited >a design flaw that causes a divide by zero on fast machines (300MHz+), >because they were trying to time the system when it started up... Ever try running the QBASIC Nibbles demo program that came with almost every DOS based computer, and maybe even Win 95 and Win 98?? It had the exact same error. Perhaps a better approach to the dirty programming speed regulation is to run a loop for a specified time value, not cycle value. For example, if a program has to cycle every 0.01 seconds, why not run a loop for 1 second, then take the value of the number of cycles, divide that by 100, and then incorporate that into the algorithm which compensates for the approx amount of time taken to run the rest of the game code. Now this could still potentiall cause an overflow error, but you would need a _really_ fast machine before that happens... (some day it will, just like the Y2K bug... no one ever thought their program would be used almost half a century after they made it, and now look at the trouble we're in) TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Ability OnLine - Our Kids know how to XPRESS themselves. ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903994750@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 27 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:33:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903996093 209.146.155.2 (Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:33 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:33 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim SAMAEL@DIAL.PIPEX.COM wrote: SM>Incidentally, Microsoft Foxpro v2.6 was written in Watcom C++ and inherited >a design flaw that causes a divide by zero on fast machines (300MHz+), >because they were trying to time the system when it started up... Ever try running the QBASIC Nibbles demo program that came with almost every DOS based computer, and maybe even Win 95 and Win 98?? It had the exact same error. Perhaps a better approach to the dirty programming speed regulation is to run a loop for a specified time value, not cycle value. For example, if a program has to cycle every 0.01 seconds, why not run a loop for 1 second, then take the value of the number of cycles, divide that by 100, and then incorporate that into the algorithm which compensates for the approx amount of time taken to run the rest of the game code. Now this could still potentiall cause an overflow error, but you would need a _really_ fast machine before that happens... (some day it will, just like the Y2K bug... no one ever thought their program would be used almost half a century after they made it, and now look at the trouble we're in) TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Ability OnLine - Our Kids know how to XPRESS themselves. ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903994752@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 20 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:47:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903996095 209.146.155.2 (Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:35 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:35 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim YM>In article <6rs9u8$af3$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, > yuska@bgs.com wrote: >> In article <6rpp7o$crc$1@cleavage.canuck.com>, >> jonathan@canuck.com (Victor the Cleaner) wrote: >> > Charles Richmond (richmond@plano.net) wrote: ...and all the other people talking about Seymour Cray Ok, I must have missed something? When did he die? How long ago was this? Are Cray computers no longer in production, or is the company still around being run by someone else? What was the last computer manufactured? TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Ability OnLine - Toronto Canada - (416) 650-5411 ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Message-ID: <903994753@ablelink.org> Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 36 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:52:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.146.155.2 X-Trace: tor-nn1-ca 903996095 209.146.155.2 (Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:35 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:01:35 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!News.Toronto.iSTAR.net!news.istar.net!NewsRead.Toronto.iSTAR.net!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1-ca.POSTED!ntserv1!justin.frim JAV-2@WORLD.NET.ATT.NET wrote: JT>On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:08:38, Robert Billing >wrote: JT>> John Varela wrote: >> >>> I would guess that school labs prohibit removable media because of concer >about >>> viruses. Sounds reasonable to me. JT>> If they were concerned about that, they would simply upgrade to Linux >> and have done with it. JT>...and the OS holy wars come to afc. What's next? Abortion? Gun control? It always happens. I tend to get involved in the Mac vs PC holy wars quite a bit... Well, now that I've mentioned that, I like the PC platform more than Mac. Although I hate Microsucks Winblows and other bloated GatesWare products. I've seen Linux, but don't have it here at home. I do have SCO XENIX here, but I don't really use it for anything. And there are two Mac computers running Mac OS 7.something here as well. When they start up there's a picture of Garfield with his hands outstretched and the caption "Thank God I'm not an IBM". I also wanted to take my Bill Gates Of Borg picture and replace the Winblows startup screen with it, but there were complications. I have a massive sound file of the entire Locutus Of Borg speech... now if only I could do Bill Gates OF Borg... "I am Bill Gates of Borg... Your entire hard drive has now been assimilated..." TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ AbleLINK - Help the kids help themselves..., by modem! ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:17:56 +0200 Message-ID: From: peterk@combo.ganesha.com (Dr. Peter Kittel) Subject: Re: Industrial design in Reply-To: peterk @ combo.ganesha.com References: <903562951@ablelink.org> <35E0168E.3B53@sunsouthwest.com> X-Newsreader: rn7.bas Lines: 11 Organization: Private Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!194.162.162.196!newsfeed.nacamar.de!blackbush.xlink.net!ganesha.ganesha.com!shorter!combo.ganesha.com!peterk In article <35E0168E.3B53@sunsouthwest.com> bill_h writes: > >I sorta like the little stick that swings up to hold the >Commodore PET open, like the similar one that holds the >hood of a car open....... And it was real metal, not some plastic. Ah, were they cute. -- Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail: Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ peterk @ combo.ganesha.com ###### From: john-bean@easynet.co.uk (John Bean) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:27:58 GMT Organization: [posted via] Easynet UK Message-ID: <35e1d8b9.5992544@news.easynet.co.uk> References: <903919018@ablelink.org> <35e0e84e.15137525@news.vip.net> <6rs4os$gou$2@heliodor.xara.net> <35e7b323.15877263@Rockyd> NNTP-Posting-Host: john-bean.easynet.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Lines: 22 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.icl.net!btnet-feed2!btnet!easynet-uk!easynet-apple!not-for-mail On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:43:35 GMT, alex*@*rockvax.rockefeller.edu (Alexandre Pechtchanski) wrote: >No, it is "originally FoxPro was written in Watcom C". From what I've heard at >the time, when Microsoft bought Fox they tried to re-compile FoxPro in Microsoft >C, but couldn't. So all Watcom C stuff, including this error, was inherited >until first _Microsoft_ version (Visual FoxPro) appeared. Rather embarrassing >for the company that proclaims itself "main source of development tools and >compilers". Quite so. I (and a lot of others, no doubt) have an early FoxPro 2.0 which has so obviously undergone only a "search and replace" to make it Microsoft that the help system still severely criticises the quality of MS memory managers and recommends that you don't use them, because of conflicts with the Ergo DOS extender. Quarterdeck ones are ok, it tells us... -- Regards John Bean ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:43:22 +0000 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <35E1DE7A.47DB1785@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <903919018@ablelink.org> <35e0e84e.15137525@news.vip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 903996372 nnrp-07:22663 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 19 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Gene Wirchenko wrote: > I prefer clean code myself, but I will break rules as I see fit > to meet requirements. I like to keep the rule breaking to a minimum. So will I, *but* I will comment what I have done, on the lines of... /* The next line is a REALLY EVIL HACK and depends on... */ However, as I get older, I find the need diminishes, and programs get smaller, as I get more efficient. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:44:20 +0000 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <35E1DEB4.22522A1B@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <903919018@ablelink.org> <35e0e84e.15137525@news.vip.net> <6rs4os$gou$2@heliodor.xara.net> <35e7b323.15877263@Rockyd> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 903996373 nnrp-07:22663 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 16 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news.freedom2surf.net!diablo.theplanet.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: > > On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:32:59 +0100, "Samael" wrote: > for the company that proclaims itself "main source of development tools and > compilers". That's silly, they don't supply a single version of GCC. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### From: sendsys@meow.org (Fluffy) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: 25 Aug 1998 01:54:25 GMT Organization: Supersede. Message-ID: <6rt5gh$2uq$1@fluffy.meow.org> References: <903994752@ablelink.org> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 904010056 mail2news:3226 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!fluffy.meow.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 1998 01:54:25 GMT X-Attribution: meow X-P-Meow: Meow Mail-Copies-To: never Lines: 23 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!oleane!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Justin Frim wrote: > Ok, I must have missed something? Car accident. > When did he die? Oct. 1996. > How long ago was this? About two years ago. > Are Cray computers no longer in production, or is the company still > around being run by someone else? Cray Research now belongs to SGI. I think Cray Computer went bye bye. > What was the last computer manufactured? We won't know until they stop making them. ###### Message-ID: <35E0C81C.5A31@bellsouth.net> From: Gwizdak Reply-To: wazm@bellsouth.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-BLS20 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in References: <903994750@ablelink.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:04:42 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: host-209-214-131-19.jax.bellsouth.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:04:42 EST Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net!news2.mia.bellsouth.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Justin Frim wrote: > potentiall cause an overflow error, but you would need a _really_ fast > machine before that happens... (some day it will, just like the Y2K > bug... no one ever thought their program would be used almost half a > century after they made it, and now look at the trouble we're in) No no no... There is a much simpler solution. Before every screen write, simply wait for a screen refresh. This is standard on most monitors. Given, this may not work with Nibbles as it isn't taking advantage of screen dump. Of course, this probably wouldn't be too difficult to hack. A little more jittery on the slower systems, but nice and smooth on a faster system. No matter how fast, as long as the refresh sync remains the same, it'll still be nice an smooth. -- Optimizer of life. \ / main(){printf("Na razie. \n");} ----------><---------- -Gwizdak aka Wazm / \ http://www.crowsnest.dynip.com/~wazm ###### Message-ID: <35E0C8AF.39A4@bellsouth.net> From: Gwizdak Reply-To: wazm@bellsouth.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-BLS20 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in References: <903994751@ablelink.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:07:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: host-209-214-131-19.jax.bellsouth.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:07:08 EST Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net!news2.mia.bellsouth.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Justin Frim wrote: > I carry about 30 floppy disks to school with me, and I'm in my last > year of high-school (OAC). I also have PKUNZIP and PKZIP with me so I > can span files across multiple disks... but I do exchange a lot of > data between home and school. Also, for some crazy reason, my school > prefers that students save on disk, rather than their allocated network > space. I know there have been a _lot_ of virus attacks on my school > networks. It is true that schools are a very good breeding ground for > viruses. On a lot of my disks I have the write protect tab slid back > before I insert it into any school computer. My school isn't really that bad. We only have to worry about viruses that the students write. (Gifted college-prep school.. ) I typically only need one or two disks, and those normally contain my programs for the Programming Lab, perhaps a few documents, some small assemblers and a debugger. (Never leave home without one!) -- Optimizer of life. \ / main(){printf("Na razie. \n");} ----------><---------- -Gwizdak aka Wazm / \ http://www.crowsnest.dynip.com/~wazm ###### Message-ID: <35E0C92D.56F9@bellsouth.net> From: Gwizdak Reply-To: wazm@bellsouth.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-BLS20 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in References: <903994752@ablelink.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 02:09:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: host-209-214-131-19.jax.bellsouth.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 22:09:14 EST Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net!news2.mia.bellsouth.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Justin Frim wrote: > Ok, I must have missed something? When did he die? How long ago was > this? Are Cray computers no longer in production, or is the company > still around being run by someone else? What was the last computer > manufactured? They have a website. I'm not sure as to S. Cray's life, but I do know his company still makes computers. (They have a website..) I heard they just came out with the CRAY T3E-1200E. -- Optimizer of life. \ / main(){printf("Na razie. \n");} ----------><---------- -Gwizdak aka Wazm / \ http://www.crowsnest.dynip.com/~wazm ###### From: dg@ (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:31:43 GMT Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Message-ID: <904048303.17844.0.nnrp-02.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> References: <903562951@ablelink.org> <35E0168E.3B53@sunsouthwest.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 904048303 nnrp-02:17844 NO-IDENT taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 20 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!taos.demon.co.uk!!dg In article , Dr. Peter Kittel wrote: >In article <35E0168E.3B53@sunsouthwest.com> bill_h writes: >> >>I sorta like the little stick that swings up to hold the >>Commodore PET open, like the similar one that holds the >>hood of a car open....... > >And it was real metal, not some plastic. Ah, were they cute. Also highly necessary. If the stand ever slipped while you were groping around under the bonnet, the phrase `attached to your computer' would take on a whole new meaning. Talk about dangerous PET's... -- +- David Given ----------------+ If a man speaks in a forest, and there | Work: dg@tao.co.uk | is no woman to hear him, is he still | Play: dgiven@iname.com | wrong? +- http://wiredsoc.ml.org/~dg -+ ###### From: dg@ (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:37:45 GMT Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Message-ID: <904048665.22046.0.nnrp-04.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> References: <903994750@ablelink.org> <35E0C81C.5A31@bellsouth.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 904048665 nnrp-04:22046 NO-IDENT taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 32 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!taos.demon.co.uk!!dg In article <35E0C81C.5A31@bellsouth.net>, Gwizdak wrote: [...] >No no no... > >There is a much simpler solution. Before every screen write, simply wait >for a screen refresh. This is standard on most monitors. Given, this >may not work with Nibbles as it isn't taking advantage of screen dump. >Of course, this probably wouldn't be too difficult to hack. Except that on the PC, the VGA chipset doesn't generate an interrupt on beam flyback. This means that to do this you have to continually poll a port. This severely limits the usefulness of this technique; you can *wait* for a flyback, but you can't do anything else in the meantime. The Allegro graphics library even goes so far as to provide a vertical retrace interrupt *simulator*. It guesses how long it is until the next flyback, subtracts a bit, sets a timer to generate an interrupt for that long, and then polls inside the interrupt handler until the retrace occurs. Ugly, but it works. [...] >No matter how fast, as long as the refresh sync remains the same, it'll >still be nice an smooth. Or how slow. I did smooth animation on the BBC (2MHz 6502) this way. *FX19... -- +- David Given ----------------+ If a man speaks in a forest, and there | Work: dg@tao.co.uk | is no woman to hear him, is he still | Play: dgiven@iname.com | wrong? +- http://wiredsoc.ml.org/~dg -+ ###### From: sam@greenaum.demonARSE!ARSE!ARSE!.co.uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:39:55 GMT Organization: Rossum's Universal Robots Message-ID: <35ebb098.800179@158.152.254.65> References: <903562951@ablelink.org> <35E0168E.3B53@sunsouthwest.com> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demonARSE!ARSE!ARSE!.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 904048808 nnrp-01:17317 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.idt.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail On Sun, 23 Aug 1998 06:18:06 -0700, bill_h wrote: >I sorta like the little stick that swings up to hold the >Commodore PET open, like the similar one that holds the >hood of a car open....... And the fact it looks like Darth Vader's head. It's generally styled like a cash register, was this retro even in the late 70s? --------------------------------------------------------------------- "hey let's educate the brutes, we know we are superior to them anyway, just through genetics, we are gentically superior to the working class. They are a shaved monkey. If we educate them, they will be able to read instructions, turn up on time and man the conveyor belts, sorted." # ###### From: stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:46:48 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 40 Message-ID: <6rubno$pmh$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <903994747@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.238.142.160 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Aug 25 12:46:48 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.05 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.34 i586) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!masternews.telia.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <903994747@ablelink.org>, justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) wrote: > UNCLEBOB@TNGLWOOD.DEMON.C wrote: > UC>John Varela wrote: > > UC>> I would guess that school labs prohibit removable media because of concern > >> viruses. Sounds reasonable to me. > > UC> If they were concerned about that, they would simply upgrade to Linux > >and have done with it. > > *l* yeah, I could just imagine the graphic arts students being taught > how to use Linux... > > ...and the life arts students being taught advanced physics, and the > mathematics students learning drama, etc. ;) > > TTYL, > Justin Frim > > justin.frim@ablelink.org > > * 1st 2.00 ~ > At the user level Linux is not appreciably more difficult than using any other OS. There is no reason to assume students in a computer lab using Linux would have to know more about the OS than with any other setup. It is in fact safer than most other OSes that can be run on affordable hardware a school can afford, because the system configuraton is more "locked down" so that the students can't accidentally cause grave damage with their user-level account. The only thing I can think of that would be comprable would be NT, if students were only issued user-level accounts, or, of course, a commercial Unix OS. Scott Stevens -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: alex*@*rockvax.rockefeller.edu (Alexandre Pechtchanski) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Organization: Rockefeller University Hospital (GCRC), New York Message-ID: <35e2c7c5.2111230@Rockyd> References: <903919018@ablelink.org> <35e0e84e.15137525@news.vip.net> <6rs4os$gou$2@heliodor.xara.net> <35e7b323.15877263@Rockyd> <35E1DEB4.22522A1B@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:20:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.85.24.56 X-Trace: rockyd.rockefeller.edu 904054832 129.85.24.56 (Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:20:32 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:20:32 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!198.138.0.5!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsfeed.nyu.edu!rockyd.rockefeller.edu!not-for-mail On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:44:20 +0000, Robert Billing wrote: >Alexandre Pechtchanski wrote: >> >> for the company that proclaims itself "main source of development tools and >> compilers". > > That's silly, they don't supply a single version of GCC. That's why it is only _them_ who proclaim themselves "source" of anything useful; we all know better. [ When replying, remove *'s from address ] Alexandre Pechtchanski, Systems Manager, RUH, NY ###### From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: 25 Aug 1998 19:22:47 GMT Lines: 24 Message-ID: <6rv2u7$m1f$2@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <35DF6710.67B4@bellsouth.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-233.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: irk.zetnet.co.uk 904072967 22575 194.247.43.41 (25 Aug 1998 19:22:47 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 1998 19:22:47 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!netnews.globalip.ch!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!demeter.clara.net!news.clara.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1998-08-24 wazm@bellsouth.net said: :David Given wrote: :> If you look on Simtel, you'll find an ancient C system called PCC :> (Personal C Compiler). This is the smallest PC C compiler I know :>of. It's a K&R based system, with a rather minimalist library, :>and produces .COM files. :I remember PCC. In school, as the computers were not powerful :and the harddrives were small.. we played with C using this :compiler. Not school sponsored of course, but it was certainly :better than Basic. I tried PCC, and couldn't get to grips with it. Maybe it was my inexperience in C... and I think I'd managed to corrupt the libraries at some point. A possible good bet nowadays, though, is Dunfield Development Systems' Micro-C compiler for DOS, which is now freeware (you pay for the cross-compilers he also sells). v3.14 is on the FreeDOS site, as are the necessary Arrow Assembler and VAL linker. It also comes with a number of fun little utilities... -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:35:15 GMT Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here Lines: 28 Message-ID: <35e33ec1.24387123@news.vip.net> References: <903919018@ablelink.org> <35e0e84e.15137525@news.vip.net> <35E1DE7A.47DB1785@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.209.212.85 X-Trace: 904091625 A01OARAUVD455CCD1C usenet52.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Robert Billing wrote: >Gene Wirchenko wrote: > >> I prefer clean code myself, but I will break rules as I see fit >> to meet requirements. I like to keep the rule breaking to a minimum. > > So will I, *but* I will comment what I have done, on the lines of... > >/* The next line is a REALLY EVIL HACK and depends on... */ > > However, as I get older, I find the need diminishes, and programs get >smaller, as I get more efficient. Right! I'm not getting senile and able to code fewer LOCs; I'm getting more efficient. Me, too! ("Me, too!" void where prohibited by law.) Seriously, I've found the same as you. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. ###### From: Gary Tait Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:00:34 -0400 Organization: Not very organized Lines: 11 Message-ID: <35E42312.4C1F@zdnetmail.com> References: <903994753@ablelink.org> Reply-To: taitg@zdnetmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: virginia.bmts.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; I) Cache-Post-Path: Virginia!unknown@pm2-111.primeline.net Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!News.Vancouver.iSTAR.net!news.istar.net!nr1.ottawa.istar.net!not-for-mail Where can I get thid Bill Gates of Borg picture? -- Gary Tait,VE3VBF ; Homepage http://www.primeline.net/~tait ------------------------------------------------------------------ Please note that I use the Internet as a research / entertainment tool ,and I shall not recieve Email regarding the purchase, trade ,or reccomendation of merchandise , services, or intellectual property , unless I explicitly request such materials. If you Email me and wish a reply, Please use your REAL address with no spamblockers,etc. ###### From: Mark Mcgaha Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Industrial design in Date: 30 Aug 1998 16:48:01 PDT Organization: The BIG Company Lines: 5 Message-ID: <35E9E4DB.F27AF147@aol.com> References: <903994753@ablelink.org> <35E42312.4C1F@zdnetmail.com> Reply-To: mcgaha@aol.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ts003d17.gre-sc.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master Gary Tait wrote: > > Where can I get thid Bill Gates of Borg picture? > -- http://boardwatch.internet.com/mag/96/jul/p60a.jpg