From: foxvideo@wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: 14 yr old electrocuted? Reply-To: foxvideo@wincom.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: a-liii.wincom.net Message-ID: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> Lines: 5 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:11:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.148.26.25 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:11:15 EST Organization: Shaw FiberLink Ltd. Toronto Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.221.240.3!beaker.tor.sfl.net!bunson.tor.sfl.net!not-for-mail A report in the Windsor Star of July 22 says that Freddy Jewell, 14, of Dresden Ont. was killed when the keyboard of his computer became disconnected and he tried to plug it back in. Comments?? ###### Message-ID: <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:16:03 -0400 From: "J. Benz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: pc-135.danet.com Lines: 19 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!news.nauticom.net!pc-135.danet.com TheCentralScrutinizer.77@pobox.com wrote: > In article <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net>, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > > A report in the Windsor Star of July 22 says that Freddy Jewell, 14, > >of Dresden Ont. was killed when the keyboard of his computer became > >disconnected and he tried to plug it back in. Comments?? > > > > impossible. there is no voltage potential between a disconnected computer > keyboard and the computer and there isn't enough voltage at the connector > to harm anyone. Impossible? For a 14 yr old? Guffaw! He probably had a PC that he'd hacked up hardware-wise, without the screws in the cover, and stuck his hand in the circuitry trying to turn the CPU around to get at the keyboard connector. ###### From: "Bobby D. Tallman" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:04:23 -0500 Organization: Netcom Lines: 12 Message-ID: <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> Reply-To: bdtall@ix.netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: aus-tx18-14.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 23 10:04:40 AM PDT 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) To: "J. Benz" Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news2.ais.net!jamie!ais.net!ix.netcom.com!news J. Benz wrote: > Impossible? For a 14 yr old? Guffaw! He probably had a PC that he'd hacked > up hardware-wise, without the screws in the cover, and stuck his hand in the > circuitry trying to turn the CPU around to get at the keyboard connector. I believe the maximum voltage on the mother board, ie anywhere out side the power supply, is 5 volts. Maybe he was inside the monitor. Over 20,000 volts there. This is the one piece of equipment to stay clear. It can maintain its lethal charge for weeks after the power is removed. Bobby ###### From: TheCentralScrutinizer.77@pobox.com () Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> Reply-To: TheCentralScrutinizer.77@pobox.com Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.6 UNIX) Organization: Nyx Public Access Internet X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a Free Public Access Internet Service: http://www.nyx.net Nyx is not responsible for the actions of its users. Our AUP / Free Speech Policy are at http://www.nyx.net/policies/ Direct complaints to abuse@nyx.net X-Post-Path: iris.nyx.net!afelson@nyx10.nyx.net Lines: 11 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:26:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.124.29.7 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 06:26:27 MDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!priori!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail In article <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net>, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > A report in the Windsor Star of July 22 says that Freddy Jewell, 14, >of Dresden Ont. was killed when the keyboard of his computer became >disconnected and he tried to plug it back in. Comments?? > impossible. there is no voltage potential between a disconnected computer keyboard and the computer and there isn't enough voltage at the connector to harm anyone. ###### From: shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 23 Jul 1998 12:35:58 GMT Organization: TRIUMF, Canada's National Meson Facility Lines: 15 Message-ID: <6p7ane$7qb$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: alph02.triumf.ca Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!awabi.library.ucla.edu!137.82.194.1!unixg.ubc.ca!alph02.triumf.ca!shoppa In article , wrote: >In article <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net>, Charles E. Fox wrote: >> >> A report in the Windsor Star of July 22 says that Freddy Jewell, 14, >>of Dresden Ont. was killed when the keyboard of his computer became >>disconnected and he tried to plug it back in. Comments?? > >impossible. there is no voltage potential between a disconnected computer >keyboard and the computer and there isn't enough voltage at the connector >to harm anyone. Who says he was trying to plug it into the computer? (Says Tim, inventor of the DB-25-to-120VAC adapter.) ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 23 Jul 1998 14:32:05 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 22 Message-ID: <6p7hh5$9e4@top.mitre.org> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.26.210.166!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!wesley.videotron.net!Pollux.Teleglobe.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris foxvideo@wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) writes: > A report in the Windsor Star of July 22 says that Freddy Jewell, 14, >of Dresden Ont. was killed when the keyboard of his computer became >disconnected and he tried to plug it back in. Comments?? Depends on what he tried to plug it into, n'est-ce pas? Barring the possibility of a wiring error somewhere in the PC, the keyboard is supplied with +5VDC and signal levels of less than that, and it's unlikely that an electrocution would occur at that voltage. Of course, there's always the possibility that a fault in some part of the equipment caused the chassis to become hot (as in electrically, not as in temperature) to ground, and the equipment wasn't properly connected to a safety ground. (I've seen far too many otherwise intelligent people casually defeat the ground connection, sometimes by literally sawing off the third pin on the power connector...) In such a situation anyone touching the hot chassis or anything connected to it while also touching a grounded conductor would suffer a possibly fatal electrical shock. Joe Morris ###### From: shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 23 Jul 1998 16:26:22 GMT Organization: TRIUMF, Canada's National Meson Facility Lines: 26 Message-ID: <6p7o7e$joi$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: alph02.triumf.ca Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newsfeed.mad.ibernet.es!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!164.67.42.145!awabi.library.ucla.edu!137.82.194.1!unixg.ubc.ca!alph02.triumf.ca!shoppa In article <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com>, J. Benz wrote: >TheCentralScrutinizer.77@pobox.com wrote: > >> In article <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net>, Charles E. Fox wrote: >> > >> > A report in the Windsor Star of July 22 says that Freddy Jewell, 14, >> >of Dresden Ont. was killed when the keyboard of his computer became >> >disconnected and he tried to plug it back in. Comments?? >> > >> >> impossible. there is no voltage potential between a disconnected computer >> keyboard and the computer and there isn't enough voltage at the connector >> to harm anyone. > > Impossible? For a 14 yr old? Guffaw! He probably had a PC that he'd hacked >up hardware-wise, without the screws in the cover, and stuck his hand in the >circuitry trying to turn the CPU around to get at the keyboard connector. And he wouldn't be electrocuted messing with the CPU board; there are no high voltages there. Inside a real computer, one with +5V at several hundred amps, if he had shorted out +5V to ground with a ring he would've instantly amputated his finger and cauterized the wound. But typical PC power supplies top out at tens of amps, not hundreds. Tim. ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 23 Jul 1998 21:43:54 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 "Bobby D. Tallman" writes: > I believe the maximum voltage on the mother board, ie anywhere out > side the power supply, is 5 volts. PC Motherboards get 5V, -5V, 12V, -12V Usually current about 20A, 1A, 8A, 1A > Maybe he was inside the monitor. Over > 20,000 volts there. This is the one piece of equipment to stay clear. It > can maintain its lethal charge for weeks after the power is removed. Monitor/TV electronics uses high voltages but their power supplies can only drive small currents. So if you touch them the voltage collapses (it gets dissipated in the internal resistances of the power supply). The result is that no dangerous current can be driven (it is current that kills, not voltage). It is enough to be painfull, so don't try it kids. Neil "EE, have touched 450V video amplifier, dropped it fast" Franklin -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### From: jsavard@tenMAPSONeerf.edmonton.ab.ca (John Savard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:21:44 GMT Organization: Videotron Communications Ltd. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <35b7b6f8.16142181@news.prosurfr.com> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: c9169-004.prosurfr.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!scanner.worldgate.com!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.videotron.ab.ca!not-for-mail TheCentralScrutinizer.77@pobox.com () wrote, in part: >In article <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net>, Charles E. Fox wrote: >> A report in the Windsor Star of July 22 says that Freddy Jewell, 14, >>of Dresden Ont. was killed when the keyboard of his computer became >>disconnected and he tried to plug it back in. Comments?? >impossible. there is no voltage potential between a disconnected computer >keyboard and the computer and there isn't enough voltage at the connector >to harm anyone. Maybe he was touching some other metal object, and his computer was plugged into an outlet with a bad ground. Or the house could have been struck by lightning at that moment. Or there was a short in the computer's power supply, so that the CPU wasn't properly isolated from the power line. I don't think that the newspaper would manufacture the report of a death. John Savard http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html ###### From: joewest@sr.hp.com (Joe West) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 23 Jul 1998 22:38:47 GMT Organization: Hewlett Packard Sonoma County Lines: 46 Message-ID: <6p8e1n$g77@canyon.sr.hp.com> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <6p7hh5$9e4@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: wumpus.sr.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.2] Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!gluttony.goodnet.com!news.phoenix.good.net!priori!logbridge.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!canyon.sr.hp.com!joewest Joe Morris (jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org) wrote: : not as in temperature) to ground, and the equipment wasn't properly : connected to a safety ground. (I've seen far too many otherwise : intelligent people casually defeat the ground connection, sometimes by : literally sawing off the third pin on the power connector...) In : such a situation anyone touching the hot chassis or anything connected : to it while also touching a grounded conductor would suffer a possibly : fatal electrical shock. ^^^^^ "could"... circumstances alter cases. I once got into a heated argument with a high level manager as to whether defeating the "safety earth ground" connection constituted a "forseeable misuse of the product", as the product liability lawyers like to say. The manager claimed that "nobody would be foolish enough to deliberatly defeat the ground connection". Obviously he had never done small signal analog work. I guess I "won" the argument since he's no longer here, and we did make the change I wanted to minimize the hazard. Deliberatly defeating the ground connection is actually a common technique for those of us who still work with low-level analog circuits... The "ground loop" currents that typically flow without doing this can easily generate voltages in the ground impedance that mask the signal(s) we are trying to look at. But, it _is_ hazardous and when I do it I always have caution signs about my bench, have one hand in my hip pocket while holding the probe with the other, and also have someone nearby who is aware of what is being done to pick up the pieces if something goes awry, all as safety precautions. I also make sure to re-establish the ground connections after I'm done, but not everyone is so cautious, and even for the conscientious types, mistakes _do_ happen. Joe West joewest@sr.hp.com ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:40:34 +0100 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <35B7ADD2.1D72E033@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 901231591 nnrp-04:20198 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 17 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Neil Franklin wrote: > Neil "EE, have touched 450V video amplifier, dropped it fast" Franklin Any advance on British 240V mains, left hand to right, twice, and 500V HF transmitter final supply through one hand, once? BTW the kid *could* have got a belt if the chassis of the computer went live and he was touching something earthed. There was a kid killed in the uk last christmas by standing barefoot on a water pipe to adjust the christamas tree lights. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### [from here on an large sub-thread about house wiring ommited] ###### From: Mike Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:56:57 -0400 Organization: Sentex Communications Lines: 52 Message-ID: <35B80609.D25A7049@sentex.net> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35b7b6f8.16142181@news.prosurfr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.211.164.23 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!206.222.68.6!news.rns.net!flint.sentex.net!not-for-mail John Savard wrote: > > TheCentralScrutinizer.77@pobox.com () wrote, in part: > >In article <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net>, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > >> A report in the Windsor Star of July 22 says that Freddy Jewell, 14, > >>of Dresden Ont. was killed when the keyboard of his computer became > >>disconnected and he tried to plug it back in. Comments?? > > >impossible. there is no voltage potential between a disconnected computer > >keyboard and the computer and there isn't enough voltage at the connector > >to harm anyone. > > Maybe he was touching some other metal object, and his computer was > plugged into an outlet with a bad ground. Or the house could have been > struck by lightning at that moment. Or there was a short in the > computer's power supply, so that the CPU wasn't properly isolated from > the power line. > > I don't think that the newspaper would manufacture the report of a > death. Then given the usual technical knowledge demonstrated by most people who work in the mass media... I find the more likely explanation reveals itself when one replaces "keyboard cord" with "power cord". Through even then, given that the cord is FEMALE, seems like a stretch. Mind you, from a strictly grammatical point of view, it doesn't say that the keyboard becoming disconnected or little Freddy's attempt to REconnect it killed him. Only that he was killed while doing so. --Mike. :) [who learned the true meaning of the term "back-EMF" *many* years ago] -- As the complexity of chips approaches the | Michael Habicher, 3A EE, IEEE complexity of software, the behaviour | Ontario, Canada of chips approaches the behaviour of | * To unravel my Email address, software. --Moore's Lament | * follow the clue therein. ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 24 Jul 1998 13:03:13 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 54 Message-ID: <6pa0mh$ar4@top.mitre.org> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <6p7hh5$9e4@top.mitre.org> <6p8e1n$g77@canyon.sr.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.nyu.edu!wesley.videotron.net!Pollux.Teleglobe.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris joewest@sr.hp.com (Joe West) writes: >Joe Morris (jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org) wrote: >: (I've seen far too many otherwise >: intelligent people casually defeat the ground connection, sometimes by >: literally sawing off the third pin on the power connector...) In >: such a situation anyone touching the hot chassis or anything connected >: to it while also touching a grounded conductor would suffer a possibly >: fatal electrical shock. ^^^^^ > "could"... circumstances >alter cases. > [Discussion of removing ground connections for small-signal work, and: >But, it _is_ hazardous and when I do it I always have caution signs about >my bench, have one hand in my hip pocket while holding the probe with >the other, and also have someone nearby who is aware of what is being done >to pick up the pieces if something goes awry, all as safety precautions. >I also make sure to re-establish the ground connections after I'm done, but >not everyone is so cautious, and even for the conscientious types, mistakes >_do_ happen. I've no argument there, but if you'll reread my posting you'll see that I was referring to people who *casually* (perhaps I should have said "recklessly") float a device from ground. Working without the usual safety mechanisms in place isn't necessarily bad practice *if*: * The worker understands the issues involved and is qualified to evaluate the safety exposure; * Defeating or otherwise bypassing the safety mechanisms is necessary for some legitimate reason; * The safety mechanisms are returned to service as soon as they are no longer necessary; and * Appropriate protections are established to prevent injury to others. Your description of how you handled the problem suggests that you meet all of these descriptions, but if someone deliberately disconnects the safety ground of a consumer product (such as by sawing off the ground pin, or by installing a recepticle in which the ground connection does not actually connect to the appropriate ground point) that's criminal negligence as far as I'm concerned unless there are some very unusual circumstances. While the sometimes arcane issues of electrical safety policies and practice aren't exactly "computer folklore" there are enough threads about grounding problems in computer installations to make it an appropriate subject here. Readers who disagree should look on this thread as the USENET equivalent of the "public service announcements" that radio stations run late at night... Joe Morris ###### From: Ian Bedson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:28:55 +1000 Organization: Hewlett Packard Cupertino Site Lines: 17 Message-ID: <35B80D87.34E8@nospam.hp.com> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> <35B7ADD2.1D72E033@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: itws41.aus.hp.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/712) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news1.best.com!sdd.hp.com!news.cup.hp.com!not-for-mail Robert Billing wrote: > > Any advance on British 240V mains, left hand to right, twice, and 500V > HF transmitter final supply through one hand, once? > > BTW the kid *could* have got a belt if the chassis of the computer went > live and he was touching something earthed. There was a kid killed in > the uk last christmas by standing barefoot on a water pipe to adjust the > christamas tree lights. > I once worked on an NEC television transmitter which included a safety notice on the first page of every volume of the service manual. The warning started with the words, "If you become electrocuted you will notice a very uncomfortable feeling . . ." Ian ###### From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 24 Jul 1998 18:39:33 GMT Lines: 9 Message-ID: <6pakd5$upf$2@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-130.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: irk.zetnet.co.uk 901305573 31535 194.247.40.166 (24 Jul 1998 18:39:33 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jul 1998 18:39:33 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!demeter.clara.net!news.clara.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1998-07-23 foxvideo@wincom.net said: :Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers :A report in the Windsor Star of July 22 says that Freddy Jewell, 14, :of Dresden Ont. was killed when the keyboard of his computer became :disconnected and he tried to plug it back in. Comments?? Wrong hole! Wrong hole! ;> ###### From: cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 24 Jul 1998 21:06:22 GMT Organization: teabag Message-ID: <6pat0e$45m$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 901381360 nnrp-05:2645 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.0 Lines: 10 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail In article , Neil Franklin writes: > Neil "EE, have touched 450V video amplifier, dropped it fast" Franklin All I've managed is to touch both contacts of a table lamp with the bulb removed as I fumbled to switch it on; the 240 volt mains supply managed to give me a slightly burned thumb and flung me across the room. Yes, it hurt. Chris. ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 02:51:00 GMT Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 26 Message-ID: <901339200@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ablelink.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jul 1998 00:05:33 EDT NF>From: Neil Franklin Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed1.uswest.net!newsfeed2.uswest.net!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!ntserv1!justin.frim NF>Monitor/TV electronics uses high voltages but their power supplies can >only drive small currents. So if you touch them the voltage collapses >(it gets dissipated in the internal resistances of the power >supply). The result is that no dangerous current can be driven (it is >current that kills, not voltage). Ever discharged a colour CRT flyback transformer anode cap? Those are around 20kv, and they have enough current to kill. I once repaired a monitor, and I thought I had completely discharged the anode. When I took the CRT out, I touched the anode cap terminal and it was enough to make me jump back about 5'!! (the CRT was on a table, so luckily I didn't drop it!) :) But just the capacitor effect of the CRT, even after I thought I had discharged it, was enough to really hurt, and this was also several hours after the monitor was shut off. Ever since that incedent I think I have a phobia of CRT anodes.. ;) (although I have been combatting it... a few days ago I had to remove the CRT of a TeleVideo terminal. Of course, monochrome CRTs are only at about 9kv) TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Ability OnLine - Our Kids know how to XPRESS themselves. ###### From: foxvideo@wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Reply-To: foxvideo@wincom.net References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> <35B7ADD2.1D72E033@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <35B80D87.34E8@nospam.hp.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: a-xxix.wincom.net Message-ID: <35b9be33.0@news.wincom.net> Lines: 10 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:04:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.148.26.25 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 08:04:35 EST Organization: Shaw FiberLink Ltd. Toronto Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!island.idirect.com!newsroute.bconnex.ca!beaker.tor.sfl.net!bunson.tor.sfl.net!not-for-mail A little aditional information..... it was confirmed that the boy was electrocuted, and that he was touching a metal stove pipe with his other hand. One suggestion I heard was that the computer may have been grounded ok but the stove pipe might have been electrically hot! Regards Charlie Fox ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 25 Jul 1998 14:03:04 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6pcoio$ha8@top.mitre.org> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> <35B7ADD2.1D72E033@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <35B80D87.34E8@nospam.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news2.ais.net!jamie!ais.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris Ian Bedson writes: >I once worked on an NEC television transmitter which included a safety >notice on the first page of every volume of the service manual. The >warning started with the words, "If you become electrocuted you will >notice a very uncomfortable feeling . . ." ROFL! I wish I could have had this text back in the early 1960s when I was working as a broadcast technician. I never worked with NEC broadcast gear; I just hope that it was better designed than the GE stuff that the station bought to replace its aging but well-designed Dumont transmitter. Does that say how long ago I worked there? I may have noted this earlier, but the GE transmitter had the odd design that caused the green ON button to be lit when the transmitter was off, and the red OFF button to be lit when it was on. Go figure... Joe Morris ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 18:20:16 -0400 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 20 Message-ID: <35BA5A20.47B08D5@stoneweb.com> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> <35B7ADD2.1D72E033@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <35B80D87.34E8@nospam.hp.com> <6pcoio$ha8@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: zephyr.ultranet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 25 Jul 1998 22:20:40 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail Joe Morris wrote: > > I may have noted this earlier, but the GE transmitter had the odd > design that caused the green ON button to be lit when the transmitter > was off, and the red OFF button to be lit when it was on. Go > figure... On: "Push here to stop" (good for emergencies) Off: "Push here to operate" Rather nice, actually, although it could possibly confuse people. -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| ###### From: "Shawn Driscoll" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Lines: 14 Organization: Black Box Studios X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 08:04:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.107.160.234 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 01:04:52 PDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!208.25.48.5!news.inreach.com!not-for-mail Charles E. Fox wrote in message <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net>... > > A report in the Windsor Star of July 22 says that Freddy Jewell, 14, >of Dresden Ont. was killed when the keyboard of his computer became >disconnected and he tried to plug it back in. Comments?? He must have had the computer in a filled bathtub with him while attempting it. Shawn Driscoll http://www.blackboxstudios.com ###### From: sam@greenaum.demonARSE!ARSE!ARSE!.co.uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:22:01 GMT Organization: Rossum's Universal Robots Message-ID: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demonARSE!ARSE!ARSE!.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 901466530 nnrp-01:27016 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail On 23 Jul 1998 21:43:54 +0200, Neil Franklin wrote: >Neil "EE, have touched 450V video amplifier, dropped it fast" Franklin I reached under a Microvitec CUB monitor, while it was switched on, with no case (it was borrowed from the factory, that wasn't included), to change the brightness or something. It was about an inch off the floor, I never realised there might be, like, voltages in it. Anyway I touched something live, got an involuntary muscle jerk that slammed my arm into the floor with enough force that it bounced back up into the monitor again, several times, making me a pioneer in the field of biological astable multivibrators. I was only about 11, like, I'm not fuckin *styoopid* --------------------------------------------------------------------- "hey let's educate the brutes, we know we are superior to them anyway, just through genetics, we are gentically superior to the working class. They are a shaved monkey. If we educate them, they will be able to read instructions, turn up on time and man the conveyor belts, sorted." ###### From: lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:10:14 GMT Organization: . Lines: 30 Message-ID: <35bd8ca5.5963596@news.innet.be> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> <6pat0e$45m$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool02b-194-7-231-49.uunet.be Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!peer.news.th.u-net.net!u-net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!not-for-mail Also sprach cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk (Chris Hedley) on 24 Jul 1998 21:06:22 GMT to alt.folklore.computers: > In article , > Neil Franklin writes: > > Neil "EE, have touched 450V video amplifier, dropped it fast" Franklin > > All I've managed is to touch both contacts of a table lamp with the > bulb removed as I fumbled to switch it on; the 240 volt mains supply > managed to give me a slightly burned thumb and flung me across the > room. Yes, it hurt. Apart from getting a 220VAC shock a number of times in my career (there's no cure for stupidity), 200-250 VDC several times (same remark), I once got caught by the residual voltage of a picture tube seconds after the monitor was powered down. Purely by accident: the HV isolator cap was torn, and it was out of my sight so I tried to disconnect it "on the feel". Just once, and it won't happen again: it seems there is a cure for stupidity after all :-) It's true that it's current that kills, and it may be true that TV HV voltages drop so fast under load that they're not lethal, but those pF's of capacity of a picture tube's anode store enough charge to knock one out for a second (or just long enough to find myself sitting on my derriere behind the videogame I was removing the monitor from, with my back against the wall, not immediately knowing how I got there, and with a twisted wrist I'm still not sure of it was from hitting the side of the cabinet or not). ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: Derry Hamilton Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? In-Reply-To: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> X-Nntp-Posting-Host: tardis.tardis.ed.ac.uk Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: Sender: cnews@dcs.ed.ac.uk (UseNet News Admin) Organization: Department of Computer Science, Edinburgh University References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:47:43 GMT Lines: 26 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!newsfeed.ed.ac.uk!dcs.ed.ac.uk!tardis.tardis.ed.ac.uk!rasilon On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Sam. wrote: > On 23 Jul 1998 21:43:54 +0200, Neil Franklin > wrote: > > >Neil "EE, have touched 450V video amplifier, dropped it fast" Franklin > > I reached under a Microvitec CUB monitor, while it was switched on, > with no case (it was borrowed from the factory, that wasn't included), > to change the brightness or something. It was about an inch off the > floor, I never realised there might be, like, voltages in it. > > Anyway I touched something live, got an involuntary muscle jerk that > slammed my arm into the floor with enough force that it bounced back > up into the monitor again, several times, making me a pioneer in the > field of biological astable multivibrators. I was only about 11, like, > I'm not fuckin *styoopid* At about 14 years old, I was playing about with an HT transformer originally 1.2kV souped up to 4.8kV and went to adjust something and forgot to turn it off. I wasn't thrown very far but I had trouble speaking for a while without rather a lot of stammer. Derry Hamilton rasilon@tardis.ed.ac.uk ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 27 Jul 1998 14:06:38 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 13 Message-ID: <6pi1he$g4@top.mitre.org> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35B745A2.11D3EA6A@danet.com> <35B76D17.44C7@ix.netcom.com> <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.97.128.3!usenet.logical.net!news.tufts.edu!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris sam@greenaum.demonARSE!ARSE!ARSE!.co.uk (Sam.) writes: >Anyway I touched something live, got an involuntary muscle jerk that >slammed my arm into the floor with enough force that it bounced back >up into the monitor again, several times, making me a pioneer in the >field of biological astable multivibrators. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ROFL! No, of course it wasn't funny to you when it happened, but that's the best description I've ever run across of what *can* happen in an electrocution environment. I'll add that to my notes for the next time I have to give a safety lecture to an audience of engineers... Joe Morris ###### From: hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:44:35 -0700 Organization: ErsteSoft Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-asft05--134.sirius.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.1 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!priori!newsfeed.concentric.net!pingflood.geo.net!newshub.sirius.com!newsfiler.sirius.com!hnsngr In article <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk>, lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > And am I the oly person on this newsgroup who's never put themself > between live and earth? You're young, yet. There's plenty of time. -Ron Hunsinger ###### From: hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:50:30 -0700 Organization: ErsteSoft Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <901339200@ablelink.org> <35bceba5.26933463@news.ncal.verio.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-asft05--134.sirius.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.1 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!priori!pingflood.geo.net!newshub.sirius.com!newsfiler.sirius.com!hnsngr In article <35bceba5.26933463@news.ncal.verio.com>, dcranford@NoCannedMeatForMe.liveoak.com wrote: > In my first electronics class, an early lesson involved building a > CRT/capacitor discharge tool. That's because while were waiting for > class to start, one of the guys in the class (no, not me - the one > sitting under the "Don't do anything until the instructor has > explained the lesson" sign) had already taken the cover off of an old > b/w tv and started poking around inside. He must have been a little > smaller than you; he went almost six feet. That's about the time the > rest of us got religion, at least as far as using our dischargers and > reading signs was concerned. Come to think of it, that's also about > the time he transferred into a Fortran class. ...where he is now doing something utterly safe. Like programming life-critical computer systems. -Ron Hunsinger ###### From: atbowler@thinkage.on.ca (Alan Bowler) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 27 Jul 1998 18:17:23 GMT Organization: Thinkage Ltd. Lines: 10 Message-ID: <6pig7j$dv9$1@nntp2.uunet.ca> References: <35B80D87.34E8@nospam.hp.com> <6pcoio$ha8@top.mitre.org> <35BA5A20.47B08D5@stoneweb.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.102.11.4 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.nntp.acc.ca!news.uunet.ca!atbowler >Joe Morris wrote: >> >> I may have noted this earlier, but the GE transmitter had the odd >> design that caused the green ON button to be lit when the transmitter >> was off, and the red OFF button to be lit when it was on. Go >> figure... I asked about this one for a piece of GE designed equipment green - Go ahead and open the cabinet, the power is off red - Stop it's not safe to reach into the cabinet. ###### From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 27 Jul 1998 18:30:56 GMT Message-ID: <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-201.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: irk.zetnet.co.uk 901564256 13721 194.247.43.1 (27 Jul 1998 18:30:56 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 1998 18:30:56 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Lines: 24 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed.nacamar.de!demeter.clara.net!news.clara.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1998-07-26 sam@greenaum.demonARSE!ARSE!ARSE!.co.uk said: :Anyway I touched something live, got an involuntary muscle jerk that :slammed my arm into the floor with enough force that it bounced back :up into the monitor again, several times, making me a pioneer in the :field of biological astable multivibrators. I was only about 11, :like, I'm not fuckin *styoopid* How did you get your arm out, and had you broken anything? And am I the oly person on this newsgroup who's never put themself between live and earth? :"hey let's educate the brutes, we know we are superior to them :anyway, just through genetics, we are gentically superior to the :working class. They are a shaved monkey. If we educate them, they :will be able to read instructions, turn up on time and man the :conveyor belts, sorted." That'll be a quote from The Mark Steel Revolution, then... ;> -- Communa (radio 4 is aural ambrosia) we remember... you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... ###### From: David Scheidt Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 27 Jul 1998 19:15:56 GMT Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Lines: 14 Message-ID: <6pijlc$5rp$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.129.3 X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 970115] Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!dscheidt lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: : And am I the oly person on this newsgroup who's never put themself : between live and earth? Assuming you really never have, I wouldn't be that suprised. My personal favorite shocking was when I was testing a bunch of newly installed outlets for the correct polarity. One of them was way up high, for an electric window opener. The electrician neglected to put a faceplate on it; I was unable to get the outlet tester into the outlet, and reached over with my other hand to turn the outlet. I touched both terminals on the sides, promptly got a nice 120VAC shock, and fell off the ladder. David Scheidt ###### From: dcranford@NoCannedMeatForMe.liveoak.com (David Cranford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:20:04 GMT Organization: Live Oak Software, Inc. Lines: 48 Message-ID: <35bceba5.26933463@news.ncal.verio.com> References: <901339200@ablelink.org> Reply-To: dcranford@NoCannedMeatForMe.liveoak.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.21.31.30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!news.ncal.verio.com!not-for-mail In my first electronics class, an early lesson involved building a CRT/capacitor discharge tool. That's because while were waiting for class to start, one of the guys in the class (no, not me - the one sitting under the "Don't do anything until the instructor has explained the lesson" sign) had already taken the cover off of an old b/w tv and started poking around inside. He must have been a little smaller than you; he went almost six feet. That's about the time the rest of us got religion, at least as far as using our dischargers and reading signs was concerned. Come to think of it, that's also about the time he transferred into a Fortran class. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) wrote: > >NF>Monitor/TV electronics uses high voltages but their power supplies can > >only drive small currents. So if you touch them the voltage collapses > >(it gets dissipated in the internal resistances of the power > >supply). The result is that no dangerous current can be driven (it is > >current that kills, not voltage). > >Ever discharged a colour CRT flyback transformer anode cap? Those are >around 20kv, and they have enough current to kill. I once repaired a >monitor, and I thought I had completely discharged the anode. When I >took the CRT out, I touched the anode cap terminal and it was enough to >make me jump back about 5'!! (the CRT was on a table, so luckily I >didn't drop it!) :) But just the capacitor effect of the CRT, even >after I thought I had discharged it, was enough to really hurt, and >this was also several hours after the monitor was shut off. Ever since >that incedent I think I have a phobia of CRT anodes.. ;) (although I >have been combatting it... a few days ago I had to remove the CRT of a >TeleVideo terminal. Of course, monochrome CRTs are only at about 9kv) > >TTYL, >Justin Frim > >justin.frim@ablelink.org > > > * 1st 2.00 ~ Ability OnLine - Our Kids know how to XPRESS themselves. -- David Cranford | It's tragic magic - Live Oak Software, Inc. | there are no co-incidences. I own the company. Its | But sometimes the pattern opinions are mine. | is MORE OBVIOUS. - Neil Innes Perform a spamectomy on my| address. ###### From: cjt&trefoil Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:33:05 -0500 Organization: Prodigy Services Corp Lines: 14 Message-ID: <35BD6291.1CBE@extrastufftostopspam.prodigy.net> References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> Reply-To: cheljuba@extrastufftostopspam.prodigy.net NNTP-Posting-Host: dllsb306-12.splitrock.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Post-Time: 28 Jul 1998 05:32:44 GMT X-Auth-User: 002709921/4b15bb500392f1cc X-Problems-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; U) To: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!not-for-mail lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > > And am I the oly person on this newsgroup who's never put themself > between live and earth? > You haven't truly tasted life until you've been knocked on your *ss by accidentally touching a television picture tube anode that hasn't been discharged. -- Please remove the (hopefully obvious) spam foiler from address when responding. ###### From: sam@greenaum.demonARSE!ARSE!ARSE!.co.uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:23:21 GMT Organization: Rossum's Universal Robots Message-ID: <35d7275e.11549990@158.152.254.65> References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demonARSE!ARSE!ARSE!.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 901589001 nnrp-01:22982 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail On 27 Jul 1998 18:30:56 GMT, lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: >How did you get your arm out, and had you broken anything? I used my other arm to reach over to the socket and switch it off. My cyber-arm was completely out of my control, forced to bounce on and off the floor by the electricity. It seemed like a long time but it was only probably 5 or 10 seconds. I don't know how much the voltage was, I guess probably just 240v rather than 15kV or whatever. I was fine after, my babysitter was more freaked than I was. >And am I the oly person on this newsgroup who's never put themself >between live and earth? Yes. What the hell's wrong with you anyway? Other kewl mishaps are fusing a part of my thumb by putting it across the terminals in a light bulb socket, and doing something with a fork and an outlet when I was very small, that I can't really remember. I am the man of copper. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "hey let's educate the brutes, we know we are superior to them anyway, just through genetics, we are gentically superior to the working class. They are a shaved monkey. If we educate them, they will be able to read instructions, turn up on time and man the conveyor belts, sorted." ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:09:00 GMT Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 30 Message-ID: <901592382@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ablelink.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 1998 23:05:49 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news2.ais.net!jamie!ais.net!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!ntserv1!justin.frim hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) wrote: RH>In article <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk>, lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: RH>> And am I the oly person on this newsgroup who's never put themself >> between live and earth? RH>You're young, yet. There's plenty of time. I got my first 120v shock when I was 5 years old. I broke my nightlight while it was turned on! Man, I still remember the sparks that shot out from the broken bulb! Then I was stupid and grabbed it, touching the little wires that used to hold the filament. But then a few seconds later I decided to unplug it, and my fingers hit the two prongs! I've had many more 120v shocks after that (19 to be specific, and I'm only 17 years old!). And that's excluding the two times I was indirectly hit by lightning and my nasty colour CRT flyback transformer shock. The lightning incendent happened when I was looking out my window where my outdoor short-wave radio antenna downlead comes in during a really bad lightning storm, and the antenna was hit (twice), and each time there was a 4" spark from the downlead into my fingers on the window-sill!! The next day I went outside to discover the antenna was mostly vapourized, and the insulation on the downlead was severely burned. At least I had the radio receiver unplugged and put away that night! :) TTYL, Justin Frim * 1st 2.00 ~ AbleLINK - Help the kids help themselves..., by modem! ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 02:57:00 GMT Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 28 Message-ID: <901594952@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ablelink.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 1998 23:05:57 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!ntserv1!justin.frim >dcranford@NoCannedMeatForMe.liveoak.com wrote: > In my first electronics class, an early lesson involved building a > CRT/capacitor discharge tool. That's because while were waiting for > class to start, one of the guys in the class (no, not me - the one > sitting under the "Don't do anything until the instructor has > explained the lesson" sign) had already taken the cover off of an old > b/w tv and started poking around inside. He must have been a little > smaller than you; he went almost six feet. That's about the time the > rest of us got religion, at least as far as using our dischargers and > reading signs was concerned. Come to think of it, that's also about > the time he transferred into a Fortran class. What is the tool like? I just use a slot screwdriver with a big thick plastic handle, and an alligator clip attaced to the metal shaft... works great for me, although I always fear that one of these days the alligator clip will come off, and I'll slide my hand off the handle and onto the metal shaft just as I slip the end under the anode cap... *shudder* TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ My teddy bear says, "A good cuddle can change a grumpy day!" ###### From: dg@ (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:28:26 GMT Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Message-ID: <901639706.5998.0.nnrp-06.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> References: <901592382@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 901639706 nnrp-06:5998 NO-IDENT taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 60 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!taos.demon.co.uk!!dg In article <901592382@ablelink.org>, Justin Frim wrote: [...] >I got my first 120v shock when I was 5 years old. I broke my >nightlight while it was turned on! Man, I still remember the sparks >that shot out from the broken bulb! Then I was stupid and grabbed it, >touching the little wires that used to hold the filament. But then a >few seconds later I decided to unplug it, and my fingers hit the two >prongs! I've had many more 120v shocks after that (19 to be specific, >and I'm only 17 years old!). And that's excluding the two times I was >indirectly hit by lightning and my nasty colour CRT flyback transformer >shock. The lightning incendent happened when I was looking out my >window where my outdoor short-wave radio antenna downlead comes in >during a really bad lightning storm, and the antenna was hit (twice), >and each time there was a 4" spark from the downlead into my fingers on >the window-sill!! The next day I went outside to discover the antenna >was mostly vapourized, and the insulation on the downlead was severely >burned. At least I had the radio receiver unplugged and put away that >night! :) Ah, the "my first shock" stories... Mine was from a PSU my father made out of an old transformer. Background: my parents teach at a school in Scotland. It's in the country; it used to be quite isolated. Before piped electricity got installed, it had its own hydroelectric power plant running off the river (provided lights for the whole place, staff accomodation included). When mains electricity reached the place, they ripped out the turbine but left all the auxiliary equipment rotting in the turbine pit. My father, being a physics teacher, had the pick of this. This is where the transformer came from. This transformer was about two feet high and had about thirty taps. I'm not sure if it was originally designed to run off 240V AC, but it worked fine. Unfortunately, being 50's/60's vintage, it wasn't exactly safe, and he was just building the wooden box to put the thing in when I, at the age of about five, toddled up to it and stuck my fingers on a mains contact. The weird thing was that it didn't hurt. There was a not-unpleasant vibrating feeling, and then about five to ten seconds later my father, having leapt the length of the lab knocked my hand away. I don't know if I could have let go because I didn't *want* to. Since then I've done all the usual things such as fusing part of the skin on my thumb from two contacts close together, sticking my tongue on a battery to see if it was live or not when the voltage was a bit high (it was --- 12V; rather unpleasant) and have now got a set of reflexes so finely tuned that if someone touches my with something vibrating I jump about three feet. BTW, my father also got out of the turbine put some old-fashioned sliding-contact rheostats, a *huge* varistor and considerable other junk. All rated at about 30A and not a shred of shielding in sight. -- +- David Given ----------------+ | Work: dg@tao.co.uk | The illegal we do immediately. The | Play: dgiven@iname.com | unconstitutional takes a little longer. +- http://wiredsoc.ml.org/~dg -+ ###### From: "David Carey" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 28 Jul 1998 18:54:37 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 65 Message-ID: <6pl6pd$rka@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <6p7hh5$9e4@top.mitre.org> <6p8e1n$g77@canyon.sr.hp.com> <#KsZyust9GA.94@upnetnews05> <35b99d85.221360760@news.transport.com> <35b95f62.140391976@news.bright.net> <35BA9796.29BA@ans.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.66.199.199 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.225!attworldnet!newsadm William Donzelli wrote in message <35BA9796.29BA@ans.net>... -snip- >using bell wire for circuits, Sawzalling thru hidden wires, -snip- Reminds me of a funny story (I hope some of you agree that it is amusing and on topic). Some years ago (before 1987, after 1980) I was working for Sperry Univac as a software support person. One of my customers was having a new (for those days) electronic lock system installed for his computer room. It was one of the systems where you just wave your card at the sensor and get the card within about a foot of the sensor and the sensor would "read" it and unlock the door if your card allowed entry into the protected space. (I still would like to know how that system works!) The electrician had cut a hole about 6 inches square in the drywall near the entry door to the computer room to install the sensor. It was just below average waist height so that personnel could put the card in their back pocket, do a little "hip movement" toward the sensor, and push open the electronically unlocked door. The problem was that inside the wall the electrician found a pair of "doorbell-like" signal wires running vertically through the area. The sensor box was fairly deep and he found that he couldn't push the wires far enough out of the way to allow his box to fit. He finally decided to cut the "bell wires", splice in some slack, and mount his sensor box. What he didn't know was that at chest height on the inside of the computer room was a "Big Red Switch (pushbutton)" that had a "Big Red Sign" that said "Emergency Power Off". This was supposed to be the last thing that a scared computer operator was supposed to push on the way out of the computer room as he/she ran for his/her life. I was inside the computer room when the electrician took out his side-cutters and cut the bell wire so I didn't get to see his immediate reaction. (A witness later reported that he froze, side-cutters in hand for several seconds.) I did see him a few minutes later and he was visibly shaken by the experience. I did experience the "THUD" when a couple of million dollar mainframe computers had all power removed by the relay that was controlled by the Big Red Switch via the bell wires. There were at least forty Disk Drives (IBM 3330 like) that unloaded heads, ten 200 Inch/sec tape drives that dropped vacuum in their buffer columns, four 2000 lpm printers, etc, etc, etc... The resulting silence was deafening! It took quite some time to bring everything back up again. I was surprised, it wasn't like just turning the switch back on, quite a bit of the gear was damaged. I hope that I haven't transgressed, but every lurker eventually will post. I'll go back to lurking now. Regards, David ###### From: David Scheidt Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 28 Jul 1998 19:25:01 GMT Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Lines: 15 Message-ID: <6pl8id$d45$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <6p7hh5$9e4@top.mitre.org> <6p8e1n$g77@canyon.sr.hp.com> <#KsZyust9GA.94@upnetnews05> <35b99d85.221360760@news.transport.com> <35b95f62.140391976@news.bright.net> <35BA9796.29BA@ans.net> <6pl6pd$rka@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.129.3 X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 970115] Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!island.idirect.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!dscheidt David Carey wrote: : as a software support person. One of my customers was having a new (for : those days) electronic lock system installed for his computer room. It was : one of the systems where you just wave your card at the sensor and get the : card within about a foot of the sensor and the sensor would "read" it and : unlock the door if your card allowed entry into the protected space. (I : still would like to know how that system works!) The wall mounted transmiter broadcasts a low frequency RF signal, which induces a current in the prox card. The current is used to power anb ity bity transmitter in the card, which sends out the code stored in the card. Really cool. David Scheidt ###### From: dcranford@NoCannedMeatForMe.liveoak.com (David Cranford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:51:43 GMT Organization: Live Oak Software, Inc. Lines: 31 Message-ID: <35be38c5.19021418@news.ncal.verio.com> References: <901594952@ablelink.org> Reply-To: dcranford@NoCannedMeatForMe.liveoak.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.21.31.30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!newshub.northeast.verio.net!europa.clark.net!207.20.0.50!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!news.ncal.verio.com!not-for-mail Meanwhile, back at the ranch, justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) wrote: > >What is the tool like? I just use a slot screwdriver with a big thick >plastic handle, and an alligator clip attaced to the metal shaft... >works great for me, although I always fear that one of these days the >alligator clip will come off, and I'll slide my hand off the handle and >onto the metal shaft just as I slip the end under the anode cap... >*shudder* > > >TTYL, >Justin Frim > >justin.frim@ablelink.org > > * 1st 2.00 ~ My teddy bear says, "A good cuddle can change a grumpy day!" It wasn't much more complicated - I want to say a 1k resistor wired to alligator clips. It was almost thirty years ago, though, so take it with a grain of salt. In fact, the only thing I remember with certainty from that class is that the class brown-noser was known as "the guy with the 110-ohm nose". -- David Cranford | It's tragic magic - Live Oak Software, Inc. | there are no co-incidences. I own the company. Its | But sometimes the pattern opinions are mine. | is MORE OBVIOUS. - Neil Innes Perform a spamectomy on my| address. ###### From: David Scheidt Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 28 Jul 1998 21:41:23 GMT Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Lines: 11 Message-ID: <6plgi3$g47$2@eve.enteract.com> References: <901594952@ablelink.org> <35be38c5.19021418@news.ncal.verio.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.129.3 X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 970115] Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!dscheidt David Cranford wrote: : It wasn't much more complicated - I want to say a 1k resistor wired to : alligator clips. It was almost thirty years ago, though, so take it My CRT discharge tool is a screwdriver, most of the metal blade of which is covered in heat shrink tubing, and an aligator clips to attach to ground. I have a 1 Mohm ish resistor in series with the clips. David Scheidt ###### From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:30:00 GMT Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 22 Message-ID: <901672831@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ablelink.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jul 1998 21:05:37 EDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!news1.radix.net!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!ntserv1!justin.frim dcranford@NoCannedMeatForMe.liveoak.com (David Cranford) wrote: DC>It wasn't much more complicated - I want to say a 1k resistor wired to >alligator clips. It was almost thirty years ago, though, so take it >with a grain of salt. In fact, the only thing I remember with >certainty from that class is that the class brown-noser was known as >"the guy with the 110-ohm nose". A resistor, eh? Hmm... I suppose that would be a good idea... although the fireworks display of sparks always entertains me when I use my slot screwdriver and alligator clips discharge tool! ;) BTW, my last electronics class was last year! haha! But we never did any video stuff like CRT's... almost the entire course was on TTL and CMOS digital circuits, and we also did some stuff on computer hardware. I guess times sure change, eh? :) TTYL, Justin Frim justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ Ability OnLine - Our Teens know how to XPRESS themselves. ###### From: bereza@pobox.com (Bill Bereza) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 29 Jul 1998 06:46:08 PDT Organization: http://www.pobox.com/~bereza/ Lines: 31 Message-ID: <6pn930$e46@chronicle.concentric.net> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <35b95f62.140391976@news.bright.net> <35BA9796.29BA@ans.net> <6pl6pd$rka@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: galileo.concentric.net Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master In article <6pl6pd$rka@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, David Carey wrote: > >William Donzelli wrote in message <35BA9796.29BA@ans.net>... >-snip- >>using bell wire for circuits, Sawzalling thru hidden wires, >-snip- > >Reminds me of a funny story (I hope some of you agree that it is amusing and >on topic). > > Some years ago (before 1987, after 1980) I was working for Sperry Univac [...] >I hope that I haven't transgressed, but every lurker eventually will post. >I'll go back to lurking now. > I'm glad you did transgress. This thread was getting dull with off-topic stories of electric shocks. But hopefully you won't just go back to lurking. -- Bill Bereza bereza@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~bereza/ Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes. (H. D. Thoreau) ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <6p7ane$7qb$1@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> Organization: Wizvax Communications, LLC From: multics@wizvax.wizvax.net (Richard Shetron) NNTP-Posting-Host: wizvax.wizvax.net Message-ID: <35bf0e15.0@news.wizvax.net> Date: 29 Jul 1998 07:57:09 -0500 X-Trace: 29 Jul 1998 07:57:09 -0500, wizvax.wizvax.net Lines: 59 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer!btnet!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.wizvax.net!news.wizvax.net!wizvax.wizvax.net!multics In article <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net>, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > A report in the Windsor Star of July 22 says that Freddy Jewell, 14, >of Dresden Ont. was killed when the keyboard of his computer became >disconnected and he tried to plug it back in. Comments?? Sounds more like an urban legend, however I can see some possibilities (speculations based on US Eletrical Code): The house wireing was miswired or defective. If the building ground broke, that could allow the ground to float. This happened in my parents house when I was real small. They talked about sparks jumping around the kitchen to/from appliances and the plumbing during a thunder storm. The outlet or wiring could be defective or reversed. Instead of neutral and ground being neutral and ground, one or both could be hot. Electrical problem in the computer. A problem in the power supply or miswired power switch could make the case and/or ground side hot. The computer may have been fine, Freddy may have been touching something else that was hot. Maybe a desk lamp, stereo, etc. had a wiring/insulation/etc problem and the computer was fine. In the US, ground and neutral (white) are normally attached to the same bus at the fuse box. The hot (black) line connects to a fuse/circuit breaker. A heavy line from this bus runs to a grounding point. If the house has copper pipes, the line runs to the pipe. In my house, the line runs to the waterpipe where it enters the house and connects BEFORE the water meter. The NEC (National Electrical Code) is a recommendation only. It's been awhile since I checked the local standards (when I rewired my house) The actual code requirements are set by the local building code department. Most now refer to the NEC and may have local extensions. Where I live, GFCI (Ground Fault) is required in bathrooms and basements and has been for many years. Older wiring (50's/early 60's) was armored cable. Two conductor and the armored sheath was grounded. If you have a two prong outlet, you can buy adapters the connect to the screw holding the cover on. In many cases (proper wired outlet), the outlet case is grounded to an armored cable sheath and the screw holding on the cover is grounded. A copper pigtail from the metal outlet box connects to a ground screw on the outlet which connects to the screw holding on the outlet cover. Current wiring is usually 2 insulated conductors with a third bare ground wire in the cable. Typical cable is 12-2 w/ground (20Amp) or 14-2 w/ground (15Amp). 14Gauge is cheaper and easier to work with, 12Gauge is higher capacity. A wiring tester can be bought at most hardware stores for about $5 to $10 for low end ones, better high end ones are more. The low end ones may not detect all problems, just the 'blatant' ones. ###### Date: 29 Jul 98 10:04:15 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> Message-ID: <858.514T760T6043933@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 21 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!204.244.4.2!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.130 In article <6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> samael@dial.pipex.com (Andrew Ducker) writes: >On a personal note, and without going to into any details whatsoever, >I can confirm that it is a really _really_ stupid thing to do to piss >on an electric fence. I'll take your word for it. That, and the stories I've heard about people pissing out a hotel window on an upper floor facing the alley, not noticing the transformers below (at least until it's too late). However, one evening when a bunch of us were looking for entertainment, we tried grabbing an electric fence at timed intervals. Since a fence charger sends a high-voltage pulse down the fence about once a second, you can grip the wire between pulses and not get zapped. It's all a matter of timing. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 29 Jul 1998 13:20:45 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 41 Message-ID: <6pn7jd$as4@top.mitre.org> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <6p7hh5$9e4@top.mitre.org> <6p8e1n$g77@canyon.sr.hp.com> <#KsZyust9GA.94@upnetnews05> <35b99d85.221360760@news.transport.com> <35b95f62.140391976@news.bright.net> <35BA9796.29BA@ans.net> <6pl6pd$rka@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!wesley.videotron.net!Pollux.Teleglobe.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris "David Carey" writes: >The problem was that inside the wall the electrician found a pair of >"doorbell-like" signal wires running vertically through the area. The >sensor box was fairly deep and he found that he couldn't push the wires far >enough out of the way to allow his box to fit. >What he didn't know was that at chest height on the inside of the computer >room was a "Big Red Switch (pushbutton)" that had a "Big Red Sign" that said >"Emergency Power Off". This was supposed to be the last thing that a scared >computer operator was supposed to push on the way out of the computer room >as he/she ran for his/her life. >I was inside the computer room when the electrician took out his >side-cutters and cut the bell wire so I didn't get to see his immediate >reaction. >I did experience the "THUD" when a couple of million dollar mainframe >computers had all power removed by the relay that was controlled by the Big >Red Switch via the bell wires. Are you certain that he didn't short them out as he was cutting them? Every scram switch I've worked with -- including the ones in the mainframe computer center that I managed for about ten years -- were implemented as a shunt trip: pushing the Big Red Button closed a circuit that applied 117 VAC to a solenoid in the circuit breaker that fed the entire computer room. Similarly, every scram switch connection I've seen in a UPS -- including the 100 KVA box in my shop -- signaled emergency shutdown by contact closure, not by interrupting a normally-closed loop. On the other hand, internal EPO (Emergency Power Off) switches in many large mainframe systems is implemented as a normally-closed loop which supplies 24 VDC to relays that when open break all of the power mains except the one that supplies the 24 VDC supervisory power. It's certainly possible that such a loop could have been brought out and run through an external scram switch, but I've never seen such an installation. Joe Morris ###### From: "Andrew Ducker" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:13:32 +0100 Lines: 24 Message-ID: <6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.126.84.85 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.itg.net.uk!usenet lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote in message <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk>... > > >On 1998-07-26 sam@greenaum.demonARSE!ARSE!ARSE!.co.uk said: > :Anyway I touched something live, got an involuntary muscle jerk that > :slammed my arm into the floor with enough force that it bounced back > :up into the monitor again, several times, making me a pioneer in the > :field of biological astable multivibrators. I was only about 11, > :like, I'm not fuckin *styoopid* > >How did you get your arm out, and had you broken anything? > >And am I the oly person on this newsgroup who's never put themself >between live and earth? On a personal note, and without going to into any details whatsoever, I can confirm that it is a really _really_ stupid thing to do to piss on an electric fence. Andy D ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:06:26 +0100 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <35BF64A2.8E06D50@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <35b71cb7.0@news.wincom.net> <6p7hh5$9e4@top.mitre.org> <6p8e1n$g77@canyon.sr.hp.com> <#KsZyust9GA.94@upnetnews05> <35b99d85.221360760@news.transport.com> <35b95f62.140391976@news.bright.net> <35BA9796.29BA@ans.net> <6pl6pd$rka@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> <6pn7jd$as4@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 901735872 nnrp-03:13083 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 15 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Joe Morris wrote: > many large mainframe systems is implemented as a normally-closed > loop which supplies 24 VDC to relays that when open break all of Incidentally, that's how the emergency power dump on the London Underground works. Cutting or shorting the two bare wires on the tunnel wall trips the breaker and dumps the 630V to the track. It will auto reset once, after three mins, if it trips again it stays off. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.0 References: <901592382@ablelink.org> <901639706.5998.0.nnrp-06.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> From: breicher@bbnplanet.com (Brian Reichert) Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 18 Message-ID: <0zKv1.5$rF.39426@cam-news-reader1.bbnplanet.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:17:16 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 171.78.46.22 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:17:16 EDT Distribution: world Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-reader1.bbnplanet.com.POSTED!not-for-mail In article <901639706.5998.0.nnrp-06.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk>, dg@ (David Given) writes: > Since then I've done all the usual things such as fusing part of the skin > on my thumb from two contacts close together, sticking my tongue on a > battery to see if it was live or not when the voltage was a bit high (it > was --- 12V; rather unpleasant) and have now got a set of reflexes so > finely tuned that if someone touches my with something vibrating I jump > about three feet. Gad, I don't want to talk about how I first reacted to my 'silent' pager went it first went off... I spent _way_ too much time around electric fences when I was young... -- Brian Reichert Web Advantage Group 617-873-4337 breicher@bbnplanet.com ###### From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 29 Jul 1998 20:00:28 GMT Message-ID: <6pnv0s$mpl$3@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <6pijlc$5rp$1@eve.enteract.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-149.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: irk.zetnet.co.uk 901742428 23349 194.247.40.190 (29 Jul 1998 20:00:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jul 1998 20:00:28 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Lines: 17 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.cs.utwente.nl!newshunter.cosy.sbg.ac.at!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newshub.northeast.verio.net!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1998-07-27 dscheidt@enteract.com said: :lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: :: And am I the oly person on this newsgroup who's never put themself :: between live and earth? :Assuming you really never have, I wouldn't be that suprised. Well, put it this way, if I did it was obviously across my forehead, because I have no memory of it. I get static jolts off everything I touch, but I've managed to avoid the real stuff. Thus far, of course. :> -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... ###### From: danielt@thranx.dgii.com (Daniel Taylor) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? References: <6pijlc$5rp$1@eve.enteract.com> <6pnv0s$mpl$3@irk.zetnet.co.uk> Message-ID: X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Lines: 20 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:19:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.86.0.206 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:19:41 CDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-nyc.telia.net!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!ptah.visi.com!not-for-mail On 29 Jul 1998 20:00:28 GMT, lisard@zetnet.co.uk scribed: > > >On 1998-07-27 dscheidt@enteract.com said: > :lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > :: And am I the oly person on this newsgroup who's never put themself > :: between live and earth? > > :Assuming you really never have, I wouldn't be that suprised. > >Well, put it this way, if I did it was obviously across my forehead, >because I have no memory of it. I get static jolts off everything I >touch, but I've managed to avoid the real stuff. > Wire-frame glasses, metal light fixture with a short, metal floor. Believe me-- you would remember. -- Daniel Taylor ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 22:11:41 +0200 Message-ID: From: peterk@combo.ganesha.com (Dr. Peter Kittel) Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Reply-To: peterk @ combo.ganesha.com References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <35BD6291.1CBE@extrastufftostopspam.prodigy.net> X-Newsreader: rn7.bas Lines: 31 Organization: Private Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!island.idirect.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.ecrc.net!blackbush.xlink.net!ganesha.ganesha.com!shorter!combo.ganesha.com!peterk In article <35BD6291.1CBE@extrastufftostopspam.prodigy.net> cjt&trefoil writes: >lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > >> >> And am I the oly person on this newsgroup who's never put themself >> between live and earth? >> > >You haven't truly tasted life until you've been knocked on your *ss >by accidentally touching a television picture tube anode that hasn't >been discharged. Well, I wasn't really knocked out, but then it also was just a b&w TV with just a third of the voltage of a color model. My brother and I wanted to adjust our TV a bit. There were two little magnets mounted besides the deflection coil, and you could bend the mounting straps of those magnets to move them a bit in space. So you could adjust the geometry of the picture. My brother tried, until he got a shock and his right hand was a bit jittering. I did not give in until both my hands had got their shocks and jittered. It took until the next day that our hands were ok again. Oh, and the TV picture looked a *bit* better... One additional remark: To protect us a bit, we had used thick leather gloves for garden work (cutting roses). Today I think that was a bad idea, in that they didn't help at all. - Once I also came across full 220 V across one of my fingers, but that shock did not last long, the finger was ok again after a few minutes. -- Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail: Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ peterk @ combo.ganesha.com ###### From: dg@ (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:33:33 GMT Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Message-ID: <901798413.12220.0.nnrp-02.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> <858.514T760T6043933@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 901798413 nnrp-02:12220 NO-IDENT taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 28 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!taos.demon.co.uk!!dg In article <858.514T760T6043933@sky.bus.com>, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>On a personal note, and without going to into any details whatsoever, >>I can confirm that it is a really _really_ stupid thing to do to piss >>on an electric fence. > >I'll take your word for it. That, and the stories I've heard >about people pissing out a hotel window on an upper floor facing >the alley, not noticing the transformers below (at least until >it's too late). There are the persistent UL's about people pissing on the live rail of an underground station... >However, one evening when a bunch of us were looking for entertainment, >we tried grabbing an electric fence at timed intervals. Since a fence >charger sends a high-voltage pulse down the fence about once a second, >you can grip the wire between pulses and not get zapped. It's all a >matter of timing. You must have been very, very bored. -- +- David Given ----------------+ | Work: dg@tao.co.uk | Anarchy - It's not the law, it's just | Play: dgiven@iname.com | a good idea. +- http://wiredsoc.ml.org/~dg -+ ###### From: Ingvar Mattsson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 30 Jul 1998 15:52:04 +0200 Organization: Telia Internet Services Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <6pijlc$5rp$1@eve.enteract.com> <6pnv0s$mpl$3@irk.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: d2o61.telia.com X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ns.idasys.se X-Complaints-To: abuse@internet.telia.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newspost.telia.com!d2o61.telia.com!ns.idasys.se lisard@zetnet.co.uk writes: > > > > On 1998-07-27 dscheidt@enteract.com said: > :lisard@zetnet.co.uk wrote: > :: And am I the oly person on this newsgroup who's never put themself > :: between live and earth? > > :Assuming you really never have, I wouldn't be that suprised. > > Well, put it this way, if I did it was obviously across my forehead, > because I have no memory of it. I get static jolts off everything I > touch, but I've managed to avoid the real stuff. > > Thus far, of course. :> I remember once or thrice, changing fuses in an old fuse box (ceramic "plug" fuses, with ceramic-capped metal holder) where the ceramic cap on the "screw-off" part sometimes let loose. *Screwscrewscrew*JOLT*SCREAM*! Unpleasant. And 2[23]0 VAC too. I do know that it leaves your fingertips numb for about a day. //Ingvar (we ripped taht fuse box out soon after that) -- Sysadmin, disgruntled, unpolite. I don't speak for my employer nor do they speak for me. Accept this and life will be easier. ingvar@idasys.se ###### From: "Stefan Skoglund" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:01:15 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 18 Message-ID: <6pt49k$9tn$1@zingo.tninet.se> References: <6pijlc$5rp$1@eve.enteract.com> <6pnv0s$mpl$3@irk.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: du68-147.ppp.algonet.se X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-stkh.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Ingvar Mattsson skrev i meddelandet ... >I remember once or thrice, changing fuses in an old fuse box (ceramic >"plug" fuses, with ceramic-capped metal holder) where the ceramic cap >on the "screw-off" part sometimes let loose. >*Screwscrewscrew*JOLT*SCREAM*! Unpleasant. And 2[23]0 VAC too. > Ha, i did something like that at one time. I was out with my father in his work as a home-appliance tech. It was a simply case of a refrigerator (Huskvarna label). On theese fridges the thermostate is placed high but not out of my reach. So, i strained a little and put one of my fingers between phase (220 V) and return. I was nauseous after my little encounter. ###### [large sub-thread on large audio amplifiers and speakers also snipped] ###### From: fordrjk@global.co.za (Robert J Ford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:56:21 GMT Organization: Global Internet Access Lines: 21 Message-ID: <35c44216.7099355@news.global.co.za> References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: syn03.anx7.riva.gia.net.za X-Trace: osprey.global.co.za 903035191 17633 209.88.77.128 (13 Aug 1998 19:06:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@global.co.za NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 1998 19:06:31 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.sprintlink.co.za!iafrica.com!news.global.co.za!not-for-mail On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:13:32 +0100, "Andrew Ducker" wrote: > > >On a personal note, and without going to into any details whatsoever, I can >confirm that it is a really _really_ stupid thing to do to piss on an >electric fence. > >Andy D > In Britain, a while ago, there was a case of a guy on his way home from a local hostelry, who decided to take a leak over a railway bridge - onto the 11KV train power lines. Papers said he suffered 'severe burns'. > ###### From: joseph61.SPAM?NO!@SERIOUSLY.ix.netcom.com (Wonko the Sane) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:08:15 GMT Organization: Ralph's Yak Emporium Lines: 27 Message-ID: <35d36f38.10047045@nntp.ix.netcom.com> References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> <35c44216.7099355@news.global.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: sfo-ca26-07.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Aug 14 1:11:50 AM CDT 1998 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ix.netcom.com!news Startling the yaks fordrjk@global.co.za (Robert J Ford) wrote: >>On a personal note, and without going to into any details whatsoever, I can >>confirm that it is a really _really_ stupid thing to do to piss on an >>electric fence. >> >In Britain, a while ago, there was a case of a guy on his way home >from a local hostelry, who decided to take a leak over a railway >bridge - onto the 11KV train power lines. Papers said he suffered >'severe burns'. From my own personal observations on an extremely limited sample.... The urinary flow from said subject to said electric fence could certainly have stayed contiguous. However, after some small distance, say over an overpass railing, the stream would have broken up due to assorted turbulence factors and NOT afforded a current leakage (AHEM!) path... On the other hand, the gent who was walking his dog on a metal chain leash might indeed have indirectly experienced this effect when the dog relieved itself into the exposed wiring at the bottom of a lamppost. ###### From: Ian Stirling <000035D4414D.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:53:17 +0100 Organization: None. Message-ID: <000035D4414D.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> <35c44216.7099355@news.global.co.za> <35d36f38.10047045@nntp.ix.netcom.com> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 903110351 mail2news:1555 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-20.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net![158.152.209.66]!mauve.demon.co.uk User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971106 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.34 (i586)) X-Note: Anti-UCE in effect, replying should work if you are not UCE'ng X-Warning0: For unsolicited commercial email, sent or causing to be sent to my email address X-Warning1: on this message, I reserve the right to levy a charge for my time and expenses X-Warning2: of up to 100 pounds sterling per message, plus legal, penalty or other costs. Lines: 33 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Wonko the Sane wrote: : Startling the yaks fordrjk@global.co.za (Robert J : Ford) wrote: :>>On a personal note, and without going to into any details whatsoever, I can :>>confirm that it is a really _really_ stupid thing to do to piss on an :>>electric fence. :>> :>In Britain, a while ago, there was a case of a guy on his way home :>from a local hostelry, who decided to take a leak over a railway :>bridge - onto the 11KV train power lines. Papers said he suffered :>'severe burns'. : From my own personal observations on an extremely : limited sample.... The urinary flow from said : subject to said electric fence could certainly : have stayed contiguous. However, after some small : distance, say over an overpass railing, the stream : would have broken up due to assorted turbulence : factors and NOT afforded a current leakage (AHEM!) : path... Though may not the increased humidity, and substantially reduced air gap have resulted in flashover? Vanted: Healcy Male Volenteers, in the interests of science. -- See http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ |Linux PDA, cheap electronics/PC bits sale. See_header,_for_UCE_policy___________|_____________________________Ian_Stirling. Things a surgeon should never say. Better save that for the autopsy. ###### From: jav-2@world.net.att.net (John Varela) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 14 Aug 1998 15:10:34 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> <35c44216.7099355@news.global.co.za> <35d36f38.10047045@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: jav-2@world.net.att.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.68.76.70 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: ProNews/2 Version 1.00 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!newsfeed2.de.ibm.net!ibm.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.225!attworldnet!newsadm On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:08:15, joseph61.SPAM?NO!@SERIOUSLY.ix.netcom.com (Wonko the Sane) wrote: > From my own personal observations on an extremely > limited sample.... The urinary flow from said > subject to said electric fence could certainly > have stayed contiguous. However, after some small > distance, say over an overpass railing, the stream > would have broken up due to assorted turbulence > factors and NOT afforded a current leakage (AHEM!) > path... Actually, it has to do with the Reynolds Number... -- John Varela (delete . between world and net to e-mail me)  ###### From: "George R. Gonzalez" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 14:07:17 -0500 Organization: SkyPoint Communications, Inc. Lines: 40 Message-ID: <6r7alc$ip1$1@shadow.skypoint.net> References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk><6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> <35c44216.7099355@news.global.co.za><35d36f38.10047045@nntp.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dial052.skypoint.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.winternet.com!skypoint.com!not-for-mail Bruce Cook wrote in message ... >joseph61.SPAM?NO!@SERIOUSLY.ix.netcom.com (Wonko the Sane) writes: > >> >> Startling the yaks fordrjk@global.co.za (Robert J >> Ford) wrote: >> >> >>On a personal note, and without going to into any details whatsoever, I can >> >>confirm that it is a really _really_ stupid thing to do to piss on an >> >>electric fence. >> >> >> >In Britain, a while ago, there was a case of a guy on his way home >> >from a local hostelry, who decided to take a leak over a railway >> >bridge - onto the 11KV train power lines. Papers said he suffered >> >'severe burns'. >> >> From my own personal observations on an extremely >> limited sample.... The urinary flow from said >> subject to said electric fence could certainly >> have stayed contiguous. However, after some small >> distance, say over an overpass railing, the stream >> would have broken up due to assorted turbulence >> factors and NOT afforded a current leakage (AHEM!) >> path... > Water fogging nozzles have been used to fight electrical fires for over 50 years. The specs allow something like 3 kilovolts per foot when using these nozzles. (i.e. if the sign says DANGER - 30KV, stay at least 10 feet away with the nozzle!) I'd look it up but that book got put away way back in the attic..... ###### From: Bruce Cook Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: 17 Aug 1998 02:45:21 -0800 Organization: Synonet Corporation - The Bicycle Factory Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> <35c44216.7099355@news.global.co.za> <35d36f38.10047045@nntp.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: per2-105.wantree.com.au X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Cache-Post-Path: cletus.smithst!unknown@donal.tara X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3b3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.per.connect.com.au!news.waia.asn.au!news.wantree.com.au!not-for-mail joseph61.SPAM?NO!@SERIOUSLY.ix.netcom.com (Wonko the Sane) writes: > > Startling the yaks fordrjk@global.co.za (Robert J > Ford) wrote: > > >>On a personal note, and without going to into any details whatsoever, I can > >>confirm that it is a really _really_ stupid thing to do to piss on an > >>electric fence. > >> > >In Britain, a while ago, there was a case of a guy on his way home > >from a local hostelry, who decided to take a leak over a railway > >bridge - onto the 11KV train power lines. Papers said he suffered > >'severe burns'. > > From my own personal observations on an extremely > limited sample.... The urinary flow from said > subject to said electric fence could certainly > have stayed contiguous. However, after some small > distance, say over an overpass railing, the stream > would have broken up due to assorted turbulence > factors and NOT afforded a current leakage (AHEM!) > path... There was a (drunk) guy in Perth killed shortly after the electric trains where commisioned. I imagine that 11Kv would take the reduced total air gap a sufficient excuse to zot the poor chap. I'm not sure, but I beleive our trains use 33Kv. -- ...BRU Bruce Cook, Synonet Corp. E-Mail: bc3-au@bigfoot.com Phone: +61 147 967 468 Fax: +61 8 9227 7390 ###### From: Crash Johnson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:16:50 -0400 Organization: Snow Crash Crew Lines: 23 Message-ID: <35D8D602.8C8A5D0F@ezonline.nospam.com> References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> <35c44216.7099355@news.global.co.za> <35d36f38.10047045@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <000035D4414D.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp50.ch-ez2.ezonline.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.44.3.66!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!not-for-mail yeah, what is the reynolds number on a schwantz? -- \||/ Original text above is my opinion Crash Johnson <8}}}}=< & not necessarily reality... \\ Deal with it. [N4] remove 'spam' for email all broken up and nowhere to flow. Ian Stirling wrote: > :>In Britain, a while ago, there was a case of a guy on his way home > :>from a local hostelry, who decided to take a leak over a railway > :>bridge - onto the 11KV train power lines. Papers said he suffered > :>'severe burns'. > > : From my own personal observations on an extremely > : limited sample.... The urinary flow from said > : subject to said electric fence could certainly > : have stayed contiguous. However, after some small > : distance, say over an overpass railing, the stream > : would have broken up due to assorted turbulence > : factors and NOT afforded a current leakage (AHEM!) ###### From: "Colin Campbell" Subject: Re: 14 yr old electrocuted? Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <35be45a7.897822@158.152.254.65> <6pih10$dcp$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <6pnagj$3hk$1@heliodor.xara.net> <35c44216.7099355@news.global.co.za> <35d36f38.10047045@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Lines: 13 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:09:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.185.64.137 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 11:09:39 PDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news1.ispnews.com!c01news01.service.talkway.com!c01read02.service.talkway.com.POSTED!not-for-mail On 17 Aug 1998 02:45:21 -0800 Bruce Cook wrote: > There was a (drunk) guy in Perth killed shortly after the electric > trains where commisioned. I imagine that 11Kv would take the reduced > total air gap a sufficient excuse to zot the poor chap. > > I'm not sure, but I beleive our trains use 33Kv. Sounds like a candidate for a Darwin Award! The site is at www.darwinawards.com. Surf Usenet at home, on the road, and by email -- always at Talkway. http://www.talkway.com