Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.maz.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for Date: 28 Jun 1998 17:49:22 GMT Message-ID: <6n5vn2$ikc$2@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <35950199.82389821@news.bright.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-175.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: irk.zetnet.co.uk 899056162 19084 194.247.40.222 (28 Jun 1998 17:49:22 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jun 1998 17:49:22 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Lines: 17 On 1998-06-27 deke.spamblock@generous.net said: :The evil thing you're probably thinking is that Intel had :previously declared that INT 5 was reserved for their own use. If :you have a divide - by - zero error, the CPU spits out an INT 5, :and your printer gets busy.... INT0 is the divide by 0 interrupt. I can't remember off-hand what INT 5 is - I think it's the BOUNDS trap - but that didn't come in until the 186, which caused problems for an AT. Fortunately, the BOUNDS instruction is so useless that it's largely neglected, which doesn't cause too many problems on PCs. (Of course, if I'm wrong and it isn't the BOUNDS interrupt, that last sentence doesn't apply.) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:00:55 +0100 Organization: Tanglewood Message-ID: <358ED417.406D55B6@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 898672958 nnrp-05:20377 NO-IDENT tnglwood.demon.co.uk:158.152.132.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Lines: 11 Bandicoot wrote: [About the Scroll lock] Basically it stops things appearing. In the case of your posting it seems to have worked. :=*) -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:41:18 GMT Organization: Nope Message-ID: <3591f405.35920777@158.152.254.65> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 898562475 nnrp-01:21769 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 3 In some DOS programs, it stops the cursor moving when you scroll the screen. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!fci-se!fci!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!linley From: linley@netcom.com (Bruce James Robert Linley) Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Message-ID: Organization: Megami no Belldandy-sama no deshi References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <3591f405.35920777@158.152.254.65> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:59:52 GMT Lines: 21 Sender: linley@netcom8.netcom.com In ye olden post sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk spake... >In some DOS programs, it stops the cursor moving when you scroll the >screen. What about the "Sys Rq" key? Now there's a vestigal key from the IBM mainframe terminal days. Does any PC software, other than maybe a 3270 emulator actually use this key for it's labeled purpose, or has the print screen function totally suppressed the system request function. As we all know, when DOS/Windows freezes, there ain't no force in the universe that'll get the machine's attention back. And speaking of keys, do any PC keyboards have the other 12 function keys on 'em (PF13-PF24)? Big keyboards look impressive, IMHO. :) -- Bruce James Robert Linley | +---+---+--_ | "Tea is always bitter... but linley@netcom.com | | |NV | UT | blood is warm and sweet." Programmer, Fortunet Inc. | \ CA \ |___ | Las Vegas, Nevada, USA ----------> \*| AZ | - Miyu ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!scanner.worldgate.com!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.sas.ab.ca!jsavard From: jsavard@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: 23 Jun 1998 04:01:48 GMT Organization: Edmonton FreeNet, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6mn9bc$ef4$2@news.sas.ab.ca> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: fnt2.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Bandicoot (Somebody@somewhere.com) wrote: nothing at all, I guess he figures the subject line says it all. Anyhow, back in the dark, dead days of DOS, the screen of the computer was in text mode much of the time. When the commands you typed reached the bottom of the screen, the computer then lifted all the text on the whole screen up a line to make room for the next line you start to type. The "Scroll Lock" key was there to tell the computer not to bother. Now, it probably didn't _work_, just as the cursor up and down keys and Page Up and Page Down didn't work as you faced the C:> prompt, but that was its nominal function. In these days of fast CPUs and GUIs, it is hard to imagine that even scrolling a text screen would be a burden one might wish to spare the CPU, but there it is. John Savard ###### From: Shaw Terwilliger Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <3591f405.35920777@158.152.254.65> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980226 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.33 (i486)) NNTP-Posting-Host: vader.eresnet.com Message-ID: <358fd745.0@news.advancenet.net> Date: 23 Jun 98 16:26:45 GMT Lines: 32 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsin.agis.net!agis!news.central.agis.net!agis!news.advancenet.net!vader.eresnet.com!sterwill Bruce James Robert Linley wrote: > What about the "Sys Rq" key? Now there's a vestigal key from the IBM > mainframe terminal days. Does any PC software, other than maybe a 3270 > emulator actually use this key for it's labeled purpose, or has the > print screen function totally suppressed the system request function. New Linux kernels use that key in combination with other, normal keys to do some neat kernel debugging (reboot, shutdown, some other stuff I can't remember). These key combos have the utmost priority from the kernel; you're guaranteed to have them work. > As we all know, when DOS/Windows freezes, there ain't no force in the > universe that'll get the machine's attention back. Who uses DOS or Microsoft Windows anymore? I've been hearing about these poor souls still using incarnations of those beasts (I think they call it "Windows 95"). I guess they'll come around sooner or later. > And speaking of keys, do any PC keyboards have the other 12 function > keys on 'em (PF13-PF24)? On the "Genuine IBM keyboards" thread, someone posted a URL to the people who inherited (bought) the Lexmark/IBM keyboard patents. They sell IBM keyboards (PS/2 adaptors) to do terminal emulation stuff (24 function keys, I believe). > Big keyboards look impressive, IMHO. :) They sure do. Buy one from this company and impress your friends. -- Shaw Terwilliger (twig@advancenet.net) ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols.net!spring.edu.tw!feeder.seed.net.tw!news.seed.net.tw!!dski From: Dan Strychalski Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: 23 Jun 1998 23:01:48 GMT Organization: Cameo Communications, Inc. Lines: 48 Message-ID: <6mpc4s$ehg$1@news.seed.net.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.72.104.4 Originator: dski@ John Savard (jsavard@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca) offered -- > When the commands you typed reached the bottom of the screen, the computer > then lifted all the text on the whole screen up a line to make room for > the next line you start to type. > > The "Scroll Lock" key was there to tell the computer not to bother. Now, > it probably didn't _work_, just as the cursor up and down keys and Page Up > and Page Down didn't work as you faced the C:> prompt, but that was its > nominal function. > > In these days of fast CPUs and GUIs, it is hard to imagine that even > scrolling a text screen would be a burden one might wish to spare the CPU, > but there it is. Ah, how quickly they forget. There was no colon -- there IS no colon, here where the only "Word for Windows" is NEVER -- in the MS/PC DOS command prompt, and the people who put together the original IBM Personal Computer hardware and software, while decidedly twisted, were in greater possession of their faculties than you suggest; they were quick to dictate a use for Scroll Lock that they themselves would never support or implement: A group of 15 keys on the right side of the Keyboard Unit serves double-duty as a numeric keypad and cursor-control/ editing keys.... The intended uses of these keys are indicated in IBM's different PC DOS manuals. .... The Scroll Lock key indicates that the display text, not the cursor, should be moved when a cursor-control key is pressed. This allows the cursor to stay at one spot while the text on the video screen moves up, down, left, or right. This function is not supported by the RIOS [ROM BIOS -- DS]; therefore, special software must be written to obtain it. _IBM's Personal Computer_, 2nd Edition, by Chris DeVoney (C) 1983 Que Corporation; ISBN 0-88022-026-0 Funny thing about cursor-independent keyboard-based scrolling. We took it for granted on CP/M systems from 1979 on; twenty-odd years later, MS/PC DOS WordPerfect still didn't have it (and the Ctrl key sat there doing almost NOTHING). Anyone know about other big-name MS/PC DOS word processors? Dan Strychalski dski at cameonet, cameo, com, tw (no _x_) I know, I know -- stop thinking about these things and take your medicine.... ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.cs.utwente.nl!newshunter.cosy.sbg.ac.at!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news.maxwell.syr.edu!firehose.mindspring.net!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!cronkite.cc.uga.edu!cronkite.cc.uga.edu From: "Michael A. Covington" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:04:00 -0400 Organization: The University of Georgia Lines: 15 Message-ID: <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: aiws2.ai.uga.edu X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 It toggles a bit in BIOS RAM. Some early full-screen editors (PC-Write, for one) followed IBM's recommendation and made it do the following: When Scroll Lock is set, and you push the up or down arrows, the whole screen scrolls so the cursor stays at a fixed height. When Scroll Lock is not set, the arrows move the cursor up or down. I haven't seen an editor that actually did this in 10 years or more. But since the BIOS maintains a bit indicating the state of Scroll Lock, it could be very useful. Programmers, take this as a challenge... ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.skynet.be!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:03:56 GMT Organization: Nope Message-ID: <3593806d.1461128@158.152.254.65> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 898729449 nnrp-01:27131 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:04:00 -0400, "Michael A. Covington" wrote: >recommendation and made it do the following: When Scroll Lock is set, and >you push the up or down arrows, the whole screen scrolls so the cursor stays >at a fixed height. Relative to the document. It moves up and down with the page. When it's off, and the page scrolls, the cursor essentially stays still. -------------------------------------------------------------------- I dunno about this infinite number of monleys being able to type the collected works of Shakespeare. Just to get a single Shakespeare paragraph correct would require a whole lot of monkeys. ###### From: Dav_and_Frances_Vandenbroucke@compuserve.com (Dav Vandenbroucke) Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:24:06 GMT Message-ID: <359195f1.6132445@news.compuserve.com> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!arl-news-svc-3.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!nntp-nih2naac.compuserve.com Lines: 10 The last program I saw that used the ScrLk key was Quattro Pro for Windows 6. When you have the key down, the arrow keys keep the selected cell and scroll the screen instead. It's the reverse of the key's meaning, but it's a handy use for an otherwise useless key. It could be that Quattro Pro still does this, but I've lost touch with the latest versions. Who owns it now? Corel? Dav Vandenbroucke dav_and_frances_vandenbroucke@compuserve.com ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!scanner.worldgate.com!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!crash.videotron.ab.ca!not-for-mail From: jsavard@tenMAPSONeerf.edmonton.ab.ca (John Savard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:14:58 GMT Organization: Videotron Communications Ltd. Lines: 12 Message-ID: <3592a155.14575126@news.prosurfr.com> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <3591f405.35920777@158.152.254.65> NNTP-Posting-Host: c9169-004.prosurfr.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 linley@netcom.com (Bruce James Robert Linley) wrote: >And speaking of keys, do any PC keyboards have the other 12 function >keys on 'em (PF13-PF24)? Yes, IBM makes the "Host Connected Keyboard" for PS/2 machines used as 3270 emulators. There's even a copy of its scan codes somewhere on the web - but these are the scan codes that come out of the BIOS, being translated into original PC-compatible form, not the real hardware scan codes, which were changed when the AT keyboard was introduced. John Savard ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail From: cstoverx@elp.rr.com (Cal Stover) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:17:37 GMT Organization: The World's Usenet -- http://www.Supernews.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: <3592da2f.337916745@news.supernews.com> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> Reply-To: cstoverx@elp.rr.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 898816682 V/UA.ERXC632D185C usenet36.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99g/32.339 On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:04:00 -0400, "Michael A. Covington" wrote: >Some early full-screen editors (PC-Write, for one) followed IBM's >recommendation and made it do the following: When Scroll Lock is set, and >you push the up or down arrows, the whole screen scrolls so the cursor stays >at a fixed height. When Scroll Lock is not set, the arrows move the cursor >up or down. > >I haven't seen an editor that actually did this in 10 years or more. The Windows programs MS Excel, Forte Agent, and Lotus Notes all move the screen (and keep the cursor at the same point in the document) when scroll lock is enabled. -- Cal Stover -- El Paso (There's no x in my address) ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:38:53 GMT Organization: Nope Message-ID: <35a23c3a.9977787@158.152.254.65> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 898972743 nnrp-01:7333 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:04:00 -0400, "Michael A. Covington" wrote: >I haven't seen an editor that actually did this in 10 years or more. Ah-HA! I've found it, I knew there was one but couldn't remember. In Forte's Agent newsreader, if you go into the message-list pane, and scroll lock is off, the selection bar (a vertical cursor) moves up and down with the arrows. But if SL is on, it doesn't! It's the same with the editing window. Eureka! I suppose Forte must have put this in deliberately, I wonder why. Do any other modern progs use it for it's intended purpose? -------------------------------------------------------------------- I dunno about this infinite number of monleys being able to type the collected works of Shakespeare. Just to get a single Shakespeare paragraph correct would require a whole lot of monkeys. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!firehose.mindspring.net!news.mindspring.com!not-for-mail From: dlouhy@mindspring.com (Jonathan Dlouhy) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 02:00:16 GMT Organization: MindSpring Lines: 26 Message-ID: <3595a372.19403421@news.mindspring.com> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> <35a23c3a.9977787@158.152.254.65> Reply-To: dlouhy@mindspring.com NNTP-Posting-Host: user-38lcdc1.dialup.mindspring.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 28 Jun 1998 02:00:16 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 On Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:38:53 GMT, sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) wrote: >On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:04:00 -0400, "Michael A. Covington" > wrote: > >>I haven't seen an editor that actually did this in 10 years or more. > >Ah-HA! I've found it, I knew there was one but couldn't remember. In >Forte's Agent newsreader, if you go into the message-list pane, and >scroll lock is off, the selection bar (a vertical cursor) moves up and >down with the arrows. But if SL is on, it doesn't! It's the same with >the editing window. Eureka! I suppose Forte must have put this in >deliberately, I wonder why. Do any other modern progs use it for it's >intended purpose? Winfax Pro 8.0 will use it to notify you if a fax has been received by flashing the scroll lock. Cheers, Jonathan Dlouhy Principal Oboe, Atlanta Symphony Orchestra =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= FATAL SYSTEM ERROR: Press F13 to continue... ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!naxos!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!209.150.97.11!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!not-for-mail From: Mayukh Bose Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 21:26:49 -0700 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <35971789.2F70@earthlink.net> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> Reply-To: mayukh@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust76.tnt1.lax3.da.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Michael A. Covington wrote: > > > Some early full-screen editors (PC-Write, for one) followed IBM's > recommendation and made it do the following: When Scroll Lock is set, and > you push the up or down arrows, the whole screen scrolls so the cursor stays > at a fixed height. When Scroll Lock is not set, the arrows move the cursor > up or down. > > I haven't seen an editor that actually did this in 10 years or more. > In the last place that I worked, they still use PC-Write as their standard editor. Incidentally, pushing Scroll Lock on PC-Write toggles the over-write/insert mode as well. Is this some kind of IBM standard too? Cheers Mayukh ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: 30 Jun 1998 00:08:08 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <3591f405.35920777@158.152.254.65> <358fd745.0@news.advancenet.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Shaw Terwilliger writes: > Bruce James Robert Linley wrote: > > What about the "Sys Rq" key? Now there's a vestigal key from the IBM > New Linux kernels use that key in combination with other, normal keys to > > And speaking of keys, do any PC keyboards have the other 12 function > > keys on 'em (PF13-PF24)? > On the "Genuine IBM keyboards" thread, someone posted a URL to the people Somewhere in the Linux documentation (keyb?) there is an article on connecting an AS/400 (5250) keyboard to an Linux PC. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.cs.utwente.nl!newshunter.cosy.sbg.ac.at!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!btnet-peer!btnet!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!in4.uu.net!xmission!not-for-mail From: skb@xmission.removethis.com (Scott Brown) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 04:37:03 GMT Organization: XMission Internet (801 539 0852) Lines: 22 Message-ID: <35986991.979547626@news.xmission.com> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> <359195f1.6132445@news.compuserve.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc159h.modem.xmission.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:24:06 GMT, Dav_and_Frances_Vandenbroucke@compuserve.com (Dav Vandenbroucke) wrote: >The last program I saw that used the ScrLk key was Quattro Pro for >Windows 6. When you have the key down, the arrow keys keep the >selected cell and scroll the screen instead. It's the reverse of the >key's meaning, but it's a handy use for an otherwise useless key. It >could be that Quattro Pro still does this, but I've lost touch with >the latest versions. Who owns it now? Corel? The last version of Quattro/Wordperfect I know of (ver 8) belongs to Corel. I still use version 6 (from when Novell had it), since subsequent versions became too feature-laden to be useful. Actually, I still use WP 5.1 for DOS quite a lot, too. Free Agent uses the scroll lock key to allow scrolling the message window without moving the cursor. The "ewan" telnet client uses scroll lock to ease viewing of the backbuffer, as does the FreeBSD console driver. It may be anachronistic, but once you get used to it you start resenting programs that don't do it right. ###### From: SbluemistP@AwolfenetM.com (Jim Brumbaugh) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: 1 Jul 1998 02:55:35 GMT Organization: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C Lines: 46 Message-ID: References: <6mpc4s$ehg$1@news.seed.net.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: sea-ts3-p22.wolfenet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Newsreader: ProNews/2 Version 1.00 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!207.178.62.6!news.wolfe.net!not-for-mail On Tue, 23 Jun 1998 23:01:48, Dan Strychalski hastily scribbled: > A group of 15 keys on the right side of the Keyboard Unit > serves double-duty as a numeric keypad and cursor-control/ > editing keys.... The intended uses of these keys are > indicated in IBM's different PC DOS manuals. > .... > The Scroll Lock key indicates that the display text, not the > cursor, should be moved when a cursor-control key is > pressed. This allows the cursor to stay at one spot while > the text on the video screen moves up, down, left, or right. > This function is not supported by the RIOS [ROM BIOS -- DS]; > therefore, special software must be written to obtain it. > > _IBM's Personal Computer_, 2nd Edition, by Chris DeVoney > (C) 1983 Que Corporation; ISBN 0-88022-026-0 > > Funny thing about cursor-independent keyboard-based scrolling. We took it > for granted on CP/M systems from 1979 on; twenty-odd years later, MS/PC > DOS WordPerfect still didn't have it (and the Ctrl key sat there doing > almost NOTHING). Anyone know about other big-name MS/PC DOS word > processors? > > Dan Strychalski dski at cameonet, cameo, com, tw (no _x_) I like it! I've always wanted this feature in a WP, and never even knew. (0) I've always wondered about the extranious PC keys. I did have back in the past, a TSR program for DOS which would let you use the "scroll-lock" key as if you were pressing CTRL-S and CTRL-Q. Would you mind sharing what the other keys were intended for also? (eg. "SysRq", "Pause", and "Break".) -- Jim Brumbaugh (0) Brings to mind my old "Word Processor" designing days! If you spend a large amount of time in virtual reality, I suggest you go down to the basement and check the foundations and plumbing occasionally.. [Remove Monty Python reference in mail address to reply] ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: 02 Jul 1998 00:24:15 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <6mpc4s$ehg$1@news.seed.net.tw> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 SbluemistP@AwolfenetM.com (Jim Brumbaugh) writes: > I've always wondered about the extranious PC keys. I did have back in > the past, a TSR program for DOS which would let you use the > "scroll-lock" key as if you were pressing CTRL-S and CTRL-Q. > > Would you mind sharing what the other keys were intended for also? > (eg. "SysRq", "Pause", and "Break".) Often they were used as follows, as DOS uses them: Scroll lock: stop the program when it wants to scroll the next time continue with second Scroll lock Pause: stop program immediately continue with Return Break: stop program immediately, go back to command prompt = Ctrl-C continue impossible, program is dead SysRq: ignore it -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### From: Dan Strychalski Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: 2 Jul 1998 02:56:52 GMT Organization: Cameo Communications, Inc. Lines: 69 Message-ID: <6nestk$s05$1@news.seed.net.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.72.104.4 Originator: dski@ Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!spring.edu.tw!feeder.seed.net.tw!news.seed.net.tw!!dski I wrote, "We took [cursor-independent keyboard-based scrolling] for granted on CP/M systems from 1979 on; twenty-odd years later, MS/PC DOS WordPerfect still didn't have it." Kindly ignoring my arithmetic, Jim Brumbaugh (SbluemistP@AwolfenetM.com sans caps) wrote -- > I like it! I've always wanted this feature in a WP, and never even knew. You really and truly didn't know? No, no, no, it can't be. Maybe you mean viewframe scrolling with the cursor remaining in a fixed position relative to the glass. That would be worth a try; what I'm accustomed to, though, is the cursor moving with the text until it hits the edge of the screen (that's if you're scrolling line by line; if you're scrolling by screen, the cursor remains stationary, or at least stays on the same line relative to the glass). What is important is NOT having to, for example, place the cursor at the top of the screen and then hit the cursor _up_ key to make the text scroll _down_. That is the _only_ way to scroll in text-based WordPerfect, and to this day I find this mind-boggling. With apologies to anyone out there using a screen reader, I offer below an ASCII-art diagram that shows what I mean by cursor-independent keyboard-based scrolling. The scrolling keys -- Control plus W, Z, R, and C -- form a square around a cursor control diamond I've been known to speak positively about ;-] (the diagram is 22 lines): ------------ The WordStar Cursor Diamond and Scrolling Square ------------ .-------. .--------------.--------------. | Quick*| | Line Up _.-' `-._ Scrn Up | | ^Q | | ^W _.-' ^E `-._ ^R | `-------' | _.-' Line up `-._ | _.-' `-._ .----------. _.-' Word Char Char Word `-._ | Home-row | .-' ^A ^S _|_ ^D ^F `-. | Ctrl key | `-._ Left Left | Right Right _.-' `----------' `-._ _.-' / `-._ _.-' ^ = Ctrl Cursor Control | `-._ Line Down _.-' | ^X = Ctrl+x | ^Z `-._ ^X _.-' ^C | ^Qx = Ctrl+q, then x Viewframe Control --| Line Dn `-._ _.-' Scrn Dn | ^Qx = ^QX = ^Q^X `--------------"--------------' *"Quick" Functions: ------ Cursor ------- ------- Viewframe ------ --- Miscellaneous --- ^Qe: top of screen | ^Qw: auto-scroll up | ^Qa: search & replace ^Qs: left edge | ^Qz: auto-scroll down | ^Qf: search ^Qd: right edge | ^Qr: jump to top of file | ^Qq: repeat next char ^Qx: bottom of screen | ^Qc: jump to end of file | or command ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jim continues -- > I've always wondered about the extranious PC keys. I did have back in > the past, a TSR program for DOS which would let you use the > "scroll-lock" key as if you were pressing CTRL-S and CTRL-Q. Well, the Pause key is supposed to do more or less the same thing as Ctrl-S. It works in a more predictable way than Ctrl-S in MS-DOS, but that's not saying much. Two built-in pause keystrokes, and still people need TSRs to get what they want. The mark of a Microsoft product. > Would you mind sharing what the other keys were intended for also? > (eg. "SysRq", "Pause", and "Break".) Can't get that from the book I got the intended use of Scroll Lock from; the 5150 didn't have those keys. Basically, in MS-DOS, Pause is like Ctrl-S but a little more useful, Break is like Ctrl-C but a little more useful, neither one is useful enough, and SysReq (the name SysRq, without an _e_, is relatively new) is completely useless (I've heard it was added so the peecee could better emulate some IBM terminal). Dan Strychalski dski at cameonet, cameo, com, tw (no _x_) ###### From: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 00:15:49 GMT Organization: Nope Message-ID: <35c422b3.21907965@158.152.254.65> References: <6mpc4s$ehg$1@news.seed.net.tw> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 899424957 nnrp-01:22463 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!newsfeed.ecrc.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1 Jul 1998 02:55:35 GMT, SbluemistP@AwolfenetM.com (Jim Brumbaugh) wrote: >Would you mind sharing what the other keys were intended for also? >(eg. "SysRq", "Pause", and "Break".) Pause still works now in DOS, it calls an interrupt, the code for which is basically while (!keypressed); so, it stops the computer til you press the any key. Break has a similar function to ctrl-C if you use ctrl-Break. Don't know the mechanism it works by though. SysRq is a whole tale in itself, in 99.9999999% of PCs, it does absolutely nothing. Was there an IBM design guide or something that specified uses for all these keys? Or were they first laid out in the BIOS, were they all put on the keyboard with specific purposes in mind? -------------------------------------------------------------------- I dunno about this infinite number of monleys being able to type the collected works of Shakespeare. Just to get a single Shakespeare paragraph correct would require a whole lot of monkeys. ###### From: mwanush@lynxus.com (Mike E) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Organization: The ABBA Corporation Message-ID: <35bf8567.25703833@news.lynxus.com> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> <35a23c3a.9977787@158.152.254.65> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:30:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.6.137.33 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 13:30:22 PDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.xcom.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!newsfeed.internetmci.com!141.211.144.13!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!news2.randori.com!not-for-mail On Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:38:53 GMT, sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) wrote: >On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:04:00 -0400, "Michael A. Covington" > wrote: > >>I haven't seen an editor that actually did this in 10 years or more. > >Ah-HA! I've found it, I knew there was one but couldn't remember. In >Forte's Agent newsreader, if you go into the message-list pane, and >scroll lock is off, the selection bar (a vertical cursor) moves up and >down with the arrows. But if SL is on, it doesn't! It's the same with >the editing window. Eureka! I suppose Forte must have put this in >deliberately, I wonder why. Do any other modern progs use it for it's >intended purpose? Microsoft Excel 97 uses it for mostly the same purpose. You can navigate around cells individually using the arrow keys. If Scroll Lock is on, the cursor stays in the same cells, and the whole screen is moved around. I would also guess that there are MANY more programs that use this key, but since nobody knows what it's for... Mike Wanush ###### From: djmoore@uh.edu (David Moore) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:59:42 GMT Organization: UH Lines: 41 Message-ID: <35bfcd68.23143108@news.uh.edu> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> <35a23c3a.9977787@158.152.254.65> <35bf8567.25703833@news.lynxus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: varley.svec.uh.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!newshub.northeast.verio.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.uh.edu!not-for-mail On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 20:30:22 GMT, mwanush@lynxus.com (Mike E) wrote: >On Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:38:53 GMT, >sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) wrote: > >>On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:04:00 -0400, "Michael A. Covington" >> wrote: >> >>>I haven't seen an editor that actually did this in 10 years or more. >> >>Ah-HA! I've found it, I knew there was one but couldn't remember. In >>Forte's Agent newsreader, if you go into the message-list pane, and >>scroll lock is off, the selection bar (a vertical cursor) moves up and >>down with the arrows. But if SL is on, it doesn't! It's the same with >>the editing window. Eureka! I suppose Forte must have put this in >>deliberately, I wonder why. Do any other modern progs use it for it's >>intended purpose? > >Microsoft Excel 97 uses it for mostly the same purpose. You can >navigate around cells individually using the arrow keys. If Scroll >Lock is on, the cursor stays in the same cells, and the whole screen >is moved around. I would also guess that there are MANY more programs >that use this key, but since nobody knows what it's for... > >Mike Wanush OH MY GHOD! Yes! Cool! Finally, all my wasted hours on Usenet redeemed. There's a bunch of apps that I'm going to have to try this in; places where it's set one way and I want it the other. Thankyouthankyouthankyou. ObOtherMysteryKeys: Given the pronunciation of the SysRq key, is it true that pressing it is the most desperate measure you can take after pressing Pause and Break? If so, who do we blame for making it the easiest one to hit by accident? Dave Moore == djmoore@uh.edu == I speak for me. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!sun4nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!xs4all!xs4all!not-for-mail From: Jan van den Broek Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: 25 Jun 1998 08:55:43 +0200 Organization: the Core Lines: 16 Message-ID: <6mss9f$b9j$1@xs2.xs4all.nl> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: xs2.xs4all.nl X-XS4ALL-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:55:45 CEST X-No-Ahbou: yes X-Order: Two pints of lager and a packet of crisps, please. X-Question: never, never known not even by many to exist X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #4 "Michael A. Covington" writes: >But since the BIOS maintains a bit indicating the state of Scroll Lock, it >could be very useful. Programmers, take this as a challenge... I've written some programs where this bit is used to make the light blink, as a activity indicator. We've also used an VT220-emulator where the Scroll-lock functioned as a hold key. Jan v/d Broek balglaas@xs4all.nl "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett -- "Maskerade" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!sunholme.demon.co.uk!tom From: Tom Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:27:53 +0100 Organization: None whatsoever Message-ID: References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <3591f405.35920777@158.152.254.65> Reply-To: T.W.Seddon@ncl.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: sunholme.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: sunholme.demon.co.uk:193.237.138.67 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 898941493 nnrp-03:22566 NO-IDENT sunholme.demon.co.uk:193.237.138.67 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Lines: 21 In article , Bruce James Robert Linley writes >In ye olden post sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk spake... >>In some DOS programs, it stops the cursor moving when you scroll the >>screen. > >What about the "Sys Rq" key? Now there's a vestigal key from the IBM >mainframe terminal days. Does any PC software, other than maybe a 3270 >emulator actually use this key for it's labeled purpose, or has the >print screen function totally suppressed the system request function. I seem to remember that the PrtSc key is quite evil to detect as it sends out several scancodes (but not as many as the Pause/Break key). However, SysRq (aka AltGr+PrtSc) sends out just one scancode, 84, which makes it easy to detect. You can get Windows '95 to crash by running a DOS program that uses VESA graphics in full-screen mode and pressing the SysRq "key". You get a proper blue screen of death and everything. --Tom ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ais.net!NewsNG.Chicago.Qual.Net!jamie!Qual.Net!news.bright.net!not-for-mail From: deke.spamblock@generous.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:30:56 GMT Organization: GenerousCity is a virtue - find romance at http://generous.net Lines: 52 Message-ID: <35950199.82389821@news.bright.net> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <3591f405.35920777@158.152.254.65> NNTP-Posting-Host: paul-cas1-cs-23.dial.bright.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:27:53 +0100, Tom wrote: >In article , Bruce James Robert Linley > writes >>In ye olden post sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk spake... >>>In some DOS programs, it stops the cursor moving when you scroll the >>>screen. >> >>What about the "Sys Rq" key? Now there's a vestigal key from the IBM >>mainframe terminal days. Does any PC software, other than maybe a 3270 >>emulator actually use this key for it's labeled purpose, or has the >>print screen function totally suppressed the system request function. >I seem to remember that the PrtSc key is quite evil to detect as it >sends out several scancodes (but not as many as the Pause/Break key). >However, SysRq (aka AltGr+PrtSc) sends out just one scancode, 84, which >makes it easy to detect. PrintScrn isn't hard at all to detect. It trips Interrupt 5. The evil thing you're probably thinking is that Intel had previously declared that INT 5 was reserved for their own use. If you have a divide - by - zero error, the CPU spits out an INT 5, and your printer gets busy.... Silly IBM! ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!spring.edu.tw!feeder.seed.net.tw!news.seed.net.tw!!dski From: Dan Strychalski Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: 27 Jun 1998 15:04:28 GMT Organization: Cameo Communications, Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <6n31ls$gu5$1@news.seed.net.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.72.104.4 Originator: dski@ Ah, SysReq. Does one have to be a non-engineer to get a chuckle out of the following passage? I hope not.... BIOS-proof keys [Descriptions of PrtSc, Ctrl-NumLock, and Ctrl-Break skipped -- DS] .... ATs and a few advanced PC/XTs have the key. Its activation calls interrupt 15H by passing the value 8500H to the AX register. When the user releases the key, the AX register then receives the value 8501H. The value 85H in the AH register represents the function number of interrupt 15H. After starting the system, function 85H of the BIOS interrupt 15H consists only of an IRET instruction; pressing the key has no visible result. _PC System Programming_, by Michael Tischer, Copyright 1988, 1989, 1990 Data Becker GmbH, Copyright 1989, 1990 Abacus, ISBN 1-55755-036-0, p. 358. Dan Strychalski dski at cameonet, cameo, com, tw (no _x_) ###### From: Dav_and_Frances_Vandenbroucke@compuserve.com (Dav Vandenbroucke) Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:07:19 GMT Message-ID: <35952475.38663858@news.compuserve.com> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <3591f405.35920777@158.152.254.65> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 11 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news.idt.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!149.174.211.41!arl-news-svc-3.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!nntp-ntdwwaaw.compuserve.com On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:27:53 +0100, Tom wrote: >You can get Windows '95 to crash by running a DOS program that uses VESA >graphics in full-screen mode and pressing the SysRq "key". You get a >proper blue screen of death and everything. That's good to know. I can _never_ get Win 95 to crash otherwise! Dav Vandenbroucke dav_and_frances_vandenbroucke@compuserve.com ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!news-nyc.telia.net!feeder.qis.net!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!sunholme.demon.co.uk!tom From: Tom Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:12:02 +0100 Organization: None whatsoever Message-ID: References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <3591f405.35920777@158.152.254.65> <35950199.82389821@news.bright.net> Reply-To: T.W.Seddon@ncl.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: sunholme.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: sunholme.demon.co.uk:193.237.138.67 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 899066016 nnrp-05:4553 NO-IDENT sunholme.demon.co.uk:193.237.138.67 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Lines: 29 In article <35950199.82389821@news.bright.net>, deke.spamblock@generous.net writes >PrintScrn isn't hard at all to detect. It trips Interrupt 5. What I was referring to was the case if you hook the keyboard interrupt at the IRQ9 level, so the BIOS never gets to see it. PrtSc isn't as complicated as I remembered, after looking at some text, it's just that it acts as two keys -- normal key 84 and extended key 55. You must check the status of both to determine whether PrtSc is pressed. SysRq on the other hand is extended key 84 only. >The evil thing you're probably thinking is that Intel had previously declared >that INT 5 was reserved for their own use. If you have a divide - by - zero >error, the CPU spits out an INT 5, and your printer gets busy.... On a semi-related (ish) note, a question: I used on occasion to get random divide-by-zero errors on my AMD 486 (a dx2-80 overclocked to 100MHz). These manifested themselves by the words 'Divide by zero' appearing at the DOS prompt, seemingly without warning. The computer would then hang, but I am not sure whether this is because the divide- by-zero error stops it or because there was no printer attached. I assumed this was due to the overclocking, which otherwise caused no apparent problems, but I was told by a friend that this was because the AMD 486s do something correct with the divide by zero interrupt which the genuine Intel parts do not. If there is some truth in this, could anybody give any more details? --Tom ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!europa.clark.net!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail From: RichardHalford@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:21:23 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 27 Message-ID: <6n80s3$rb7$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> <35a23c3a.9977787@158.152.254.65> <3595a372.19403421@news.mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 159.199.101.1 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jun 29 12:21:23 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.0GoldC-NSCP (Win95; I) > > > >Ah-HA! I've found it, I knew there was one but couldn't remember. In > >Forte's Agent newsreader, if you go into the message-list pane, and > >scroll lock is off, the selection bar (a vertical cursor) moves up and > >down with the arrows. But if SL is on, it doesn't! It's the same with > >the editing window. Eureka! I suppose Forte must have put this in > >deliberately, I wonder why. Do any other modern progs use it for it's > >intended purpose? > > Winfax Pro 8.0 will use it to notify you if a fax has been received by > flashing the scroll lock. > Excell and Lotus both use scroll lock to lock the cursor whilst the screen scrolls. They have used it for years. In fact one book (can't remember the name but it was a general PC book many years ago) even mentioned that the scroll lock key is for locking the cursor when using spread sheets, not givin any other explanation for its use. Wow so PCs were origionally application specific? Any I guess with the SysRq IBM thought they were only good for dumb terminals. Rich (Win NT + terminal server + Bunch of PCs <= the average mini) -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!naxos!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!btnet-peer!btnet!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!sniper.demon.co.uk!lee From: Lee Oliver Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 19:16:16 +0100 Organization: disorganised Message-ID: References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> <35a23c3a.9977787@158.152.254.65> NNTP-Posting-Host: sniper.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: sniper.demon.co.uk:158.152.203.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 899149534 nnrp-08:1814 NO-IDENT sniper.demon.co.uk:158.152.203.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 4.00 beta 6 <28e6VvqmVJnqvcvW1qm1tobxWJ> Lines: 11 In article <35a23c3a.9977787@158.152.254.65>, Sam. writes > Do any other modern progs use it for it's >intended purpose? > MS Excel 6 and 7 use it. Pressing down Scroll Lock and using the arrow keys moves the spreadsheet around the screen without changing the active cell. Word doesn't, though. -- Lee Oliver West Yorkshire, UK http://www.sniper.demon.co.uk/ ###### From: RichardHalford@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:24:50 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 22 Message-ID: <6ng1n1$em6$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6mpc4s$ehg$1@news.seed.net.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: 159.199.101.1 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jul 02 13:24:50 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.0GoldC-NSCP (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail > Break: stop program immediately, go back to command prompt = Ctrl-C > continue impossible, program is dead In alot of the old s/w I used Break was a 'more powerful' version of Ctrl/C rather than being equal. Some s/w would ignore Ctrl/C but would not ignore Break. Now could this have been machine specific though? Or s/w? I suspect that it may have been both as these were very old 8086 machines. Pause is still used on Dos sessions to suspend console output. Now heres what I have never found out :- Whats teh difference, if any, between the Alt key and the Alt Gr key. There must have been a difference at some point. I suppose the Alt Gr was like the DEC compose Key but got 'embraced and extended ' by a certain persons compay. Cheers Rich (Lifes just a big brown bottom sausage floating of a sea of NT) -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: "Paul Grayson" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <6mpc4s$ehg$1@news.seed.net.tw> <6ng1n1$em6$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:31:42 +0100 Lines: 18 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.50.82.193 Message-ID: <359ba657.0@news.saqnet.co.uk> Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!btnet-peer!btnet!news.freedom2surf.net!peer.news.nildram.co.uk!news-sender.satin.net!backpost.satin.net!news.saqnet.co.uk!195.50.82.193 >Now heres what I have never found out :- Whats teh difference, if any, >between the Alt key and the Alt Gr key. There must have been a difference at >some point. I suppose the Alt Gr was like the DEC compose Key but got >'embraced and extended ' by a certain persons compay. > Alt-Gr is used to generate extra characters from some keys on some European layouts. One some of these the keys have an extra symbol on the front of the key - there was a little known UK known layout known as 168 that OS/2 supported that allowed this - produced half, superscript 2 and 3, degree symbol etc. Now standard UK keyboards are appearing with the Euro symbol on the 4+$ key - Win98 (and Win 95/NT with service packs) enable this to be typed using Alt Gr + 4. It'll soon be an excuse for new keyboards to be sold to unsuspecting suits! ###### From: Louis RAPHAEL Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: 3 Jul 1998 14:36:43 GMT Organization: Societe pour la promotion du petoncle vert Lines: 16 Message-ID: <6niq9r$rkd@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> References: <6mpc4s$ehg$1@news.seed.net.tw> <6ng1n1$em6$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <359ba657.0@news.saqnet.co.uk> <359CC6BB.49D0@nmp.nokia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: willy.cs.mcgill.ca User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971127 (UNIX) (SunOS/4.1.4 (sun4m)) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.mcgill.ca!cs.mcgill.ca!raphael I have an ancient program made my Ecole Polytechnique (1984, I think) that reworked the standard keyboard to a French-Canadian layout (different from the French layout which IBM provided). It also provides a mode for drawing character graphics (DOS), which I find very handy. OB-AFC: this is the oldest piece of software I use on a regular basis. If anyone wants it, I archived it in ftp.pubnix.net /users/raphael/MULTIC.ZIP, so that it isn't lost forever... Louis Lauri Levanto wrote: : To produce those graphic primitives with keyboard, a new ALT was needed, : called AltGraphics. It equals Alt+Ctrl most of time. alt+ctrl+4 = $. ###### From: Lauri Levanto Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key and What's it used for now??? (in PC land anyway....) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 14:55:39 +0300 Organization: Nokia Mobile Phones Lines: 27 Message-ID: <359CC6BB.49D0@nmp.nokia.com> References: <6mpc4s$ehg$1@news.seed.net.tw> <6ng1n1$em6$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <359ba657.0@news.saqnet.co.uk> Reply-To: lauri.levanto@nmp.nokia.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.228.247.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!newsfeed1.funet.fi!news.funet.fi!nokia.fi!nmp02.nmp.nokia.com!news Paul Grayson wrote: > > >Now heres what I have never found out :- Whats teh difference, if any, > >between the Alt key and the Alt Gr key. There must have been a difference > at > >some point. I suppose the Alt Gr was like the DEC compose Key but got > >'embraced and extended ' by a certain persons compay. > > > > Alt-Gr is used to generate extra characters from some keys on some European > layouts. One some of these the keys have an extra symbol on the front of the > key - there was a little known UK known layout known as 168 that OS/2 > supported that allowed this - produced half, superscript 2 and 3, degree > symbol etc. Now standard UK keyboards are appearing with the Euro symbol on > the 4+$ key - Win98 (and Win 95/NT with service packs) enable this to be > typed using Alt Gr + 4. It'll soon be an excuse for new keyboards to be sold > to unsuspecting suits! Once upon a time, the monitors displayed characters. Some "graphics" was possible by creating lines and squares in the 7x5 matrix. Traces of these are seen in some DOS messages. To produce those graphic primitives with keyboard, a new ALT was needed, called AltGraphics. It equals Alt+Ctrl most of time. alt+ctrl+4 = $. - lauri ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail From: Somebody@somewhere.com (Bandicoot) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key cont and why is it still on keyboards today Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:00:06 GMT Organization: Non-Profit (I Didn't Plan It That Way) Lines: 33 Message-ID: <3591f308.2255838@news.supernews.com> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> <3593806d.1461128@158.152.254.65> Reply-To: Somebody@somewhere.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 898761042 LGUMBR/EM3569CB17 usenet40.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 I need more than 10 function keys (most new keyboards have 12 but 11 & 12 are never if ever utilized) Why can't they do away with the stupid 104 keyboards, with these silly WIN (or lose) 95 keyboards with the 'special' keys on them. I have specifically (sp?) bought 3 spare 101 honeywell keyboards because i really HATE the WIN95 kayboards We could have 15 function keys utilizing the Print Scrn/Scrl Lk & pause keys and F13-F15. Is this possible (would it require a new/rewrite of the BIOS, and why do manufacturers still persist with outdated function on keyboards. Surely no-one uses these functions (SysReq/Scrl Lk) anymore Just a few questions here plus a few grieviences I wish to get off my chest. regards Bandicoot ---------- Would you like to join the AAAAA It's the Australian Association Against Acronym Abuse Having trouble over using Acroymns, then try us. For further queries you can contact us via Email, using International security with RSA Public Key Cryptography, MD2, MD5, RC2-CBC, RC4. on AAAAA@AAAAAA.COM.AU We have training tapes on VHS BETA, DVD CD, and also LASER Disk. etc. We do not SPAM anyone, as we have not yet worked out what the letters SPAM stand for, when we do, we will cease from using this acronym. You do not need to have much RAM or CPU power on your system to run our support software. just any HD Drive or FDD should do, which incorporates a VGA display within a PCI BUS master slot. For instant help contact the AAAAA ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: What was the purpose of the SCROLL LOCK key cont and why is it still on keyboards today Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:39:06 GMT Organization: Nope Message-ID: <35a2d17f.4946148@158.152.254.65> References: <358ea52f.42086005@news.supernews.com> <6mrbic$bb4$1@cronkite.cc.uga.edu> <3593806d.1461128@158.152.254.65> <3591f308.2255838@news.supernews.com> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 898814361 nnrp-01:2996 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:00:06 GMT, Somebody@somewhere.com (Bandicoot) wrote: >keyboards. Surely no-one uses these functions (SysReq/Scrl Lk) anymore I sometimes use break (on the pause key) to break out of programs, and pause is useful to, erm, pause the computer. Print screen can get a screen dump in Windows. What I don't want, are those stupid windows buttons that squish up the space bar more than ever, and don't do anything anyway. You can press ctrl-esc to get the start menu, it's not exactly a new idea. -------------------------------------------------------------------- I dunno about this infinite number of monleys being able to type the collected works of Shakespeare. Just to get a single Shakespeare paragraph correct would require a whole lot of monkeys.