Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail From: velcro_spy@webtv.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: WebTV and You Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:05:00 -0400 Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 33 Message-ID: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The set-top browsers are a major step in the evolution of the Internet as communication tool. What is happening is a whole new subset of humanity who couldn't afford (or just didn't want) to purchase a $1200 to $2400 modern computer, they can purchase on a whim and a modest paycheck a WebTV or similar unit. More people are plugging in. I purchased a WebTV and have always been impressed with the ease of use and flexibility. It is just a nice thing. For anyone who doesn't know, the box offers email, usenet, and IRC, as well as web-browsing. No telnet or multitasking, but perhaps those are coming. One thing about the WebTV that may surprise you: it contains programming to dial out without explicit action or approval from the human operator. I'll start with the mild first: you can set the unit to check for email daily. What happens is, ahem, it turns itself on at some point during the day to check for your email. There is a red LED on the box which will then blink at you if you have email. Now here is the other thing that WebTV des which surprised me when I realized what was happening: it had trouble making a connection to the local provider, so it called a 1 (800) number and caller ID'd me. Then it tried another local provider and I seem to recall that one worked. The new people who use the boxes are going to fundamentally change the Internet. vs ###### From: Shaw Terwilliger Subject: Re: WebTV and You Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980226 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.33 (i486)) NNTP-Posting-Host: vader.eresnet.com Message-ID: <3567ae49.0@news.advancenet.net> Date: 24 May 98 05:21:13 GMT Lines: 10 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!masternews.telia.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!205.137.48.143!news.central.agis.net!agis!news.advancenet.net!vader.eresnet.com!sterwill velcro_spy@webtv.net wrote: > The new people who use the boxes are going to fundamentally change the > Internet. By drastically lowering its average IQ? What did this post have to do with computer folklore? -- Shaw Terwilliger (twig@advancenet.net) ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!btnet-peer!btnet-feed1!btnet!arbiter-force9-uk!news3-force9-uk!usenet From: "David Hookham" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 11:22:55 +0100 Organization: Force 9 Internet Lines: 18 Message-ID: <6k91ir$a36@news3.force9.net> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 73.usr04.shef.dialup.force9.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.1 velcro_spy@webtv.net wrote in message <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net>... >The new people who use the boxes are going to fundamentally change the >Internet. Yes? By taking their place as rightful heirs of the AOL wooden spoon? ----------------------------------------------------- - ICQ: 9761376 page 9761376@pager.mirabilis.com - - http://wwp.mirabilis.com/9761376 - ----------------------------------------------------- I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people [8/5/1989] (Dan Quayle) ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail From: velcro_spy@webtv.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:52:13 -0400 Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 12 Message-ID: <6k9q8t$ccm$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> References: <3567ae49.0@news.advancenet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Shaw: That's just a familiar arrogance on your part, to imagine that you are smarter than WebTV user X. This is a point I attempted to cover, that the new subset of previously computer-less people who get the cheap boxes are not going to be any smarter or dumber, although I'm noticing they may be classier. I glanced around for a FAQ before posting, and didn't see one. Some of the subjects I covered seemed on topic to me. vs ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!globalcenter0!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail From: nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 25 May 1998 12:46:01 -0700 Organization: PrImE NuT (602)864-1005 <--- <--- <--- Lines: 32 Message-ID: <6kchpp$m07@nntp02.primenet.com> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <6k91ir$a36@news3.force9.net> <356aff69.1524541@158.152.254.65> <6kbvc0$6k2@news3.force9.net> X-Posted-By: nickb@206.165.6.203 (nickb) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test58 (13 May 97) In article <6kbvc0$6k2@news3.force9.net>, David Hookham wrote: > >AOL people *really* want to be on the Internet - unfortunately, few others >share that belief. The concept of threads full of "ME TOO" comments at the >bottom of an interminably long original posting fills me with horror. Or worse, at the top. I was flipping around, caught Educational Channel 20, where all the colleges air their telecourses... I caught an Internet tutorial type of program, and they were demonstrating the E-mail software. The guy hit reply, as the voice over explained about the quoted text that appeared, while the guy at the keyboard not only typed his response at the top of the message, but he typed it to the RIGHT of a >!!! Then the voice-over added that you could insert sentences between lines to discuss certain points, at which point the guy typed in.. you guessed it... "I agree 100%!!!" And I don't recall the voice-over saying anything about trimming down the quoted text. It has become apparent that we cannot blame a single group for Internet cluelessness. I can remember just a couple of years ago when the news servers would reject an article with too much quoted text, or snipped anything past four lines of your signature, and now they're making Usenet software that defaults to HTML. But we can blame WebTV for having no telnet and a crappy IRC client. -- Nick Bensema 98-KUPD Red Card #710563 UIN: 2135445 ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!feeder.qis.net!btnet-peer!btnet-feed1!btnet!arbiter-force9-uk!news3-force9-uk!usenet From: "David Hookham" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:08:53 +0100 Organization: Force 9 Internet Lines: 44 Message-ID: <6kbvc0$6k2@news3.force9.net> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <6k91ir$a36@news3.force9.net> <356aff69.1524541@158.152.254.65> NNTP-Posting-Host: 93.usr04.shef.dialup.force9.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.1 Sam. wrote in message <356aff69.1524541@158.152.254.65>... >On Sun, 24 May 1998 11:22:55 +0100, "David Hookham" > wrote: > >>Yes? By taking their place as rightful heirs of the AOL wooden spoon? I should really have added a smiley or two here. >The Web TVers I've spoken to have all been very polite and friendly, >unlike the brats you get on AOL. I think this is maybe because they're >more likely to be adults, since they're using the big TV, and also >they're more in awe of the whole thing, being normal people, so they >give it a bit of respect. To them we must look more like a community >than a computer game. I've actually found many more idiots who post >with Outlook Express, you're one of the few apparently who doesn't >think we're a giant web site you can have arguments with. You're probably right - with WebTV, it takes a conscious purchasing decision to go online; whilst AOL involves popping a free CD into the drive and typing in Daddy's credit card number. As for OE, it is not the only mail client which can post in HTML. Unfortunately, earlier versions defaulted to HTML on installation and many people were unaware of this until they'd posted to a few newsgroups and been suitably toasted. >I would argue that, if you've bought a PC anyway to play Duke Nukem >on, putting the AOL CD in the drive takes less thought than making a >conscious decision to buy a web TV. Web TV people really want to be on >the Internet. AOL people *really* want to be on the Internet - unfortunately, few others share that belief. The concept of threads full of "ME TOO" comments at the bottom of an interminably long original posting fills me with horror. ----------------------------------------------------- - ICQ: 9761376 page 9761376@pager.mirabilis.com - - http://wwp.mirabilis.com/9761376 - ----------------------------------------------------- I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people [8/5/1989] (Dan Quayle) ###### Date: 25 May 98 15:28:20 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: WebTV and You References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <6k91ir$a36@news3.force9.net> <356aff69.1524541@158.152.254.65> <6kbvc0$6k2@news3.force9.net> <6kchpp$m07@nntp02.primenet.com> Message-ID: <2798.449T1048T9284813@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 61 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!sibyl.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!204.244.4.2!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.105 In article <6kchpp$m07@nntp02.primenet.com> nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) writes: >In article <6kbvc0$6k2@news3.force9.net>, >David Hookham wrote: >> >>AOL people *really* want to be on the Internet - unfortunately, few >>others share that belief. The concept of threads full of "ME TOO" >>comments at the bottom of an interminably long original posting >>fills me with horror. > >Or worse, at the top. Amen. I _hate_ that. And somehow I suspect it isn't due to all of those Pascalites out there. Although many people were exposed to those dreadful Wirthian languages that are written upside-down (or bottom-up, if you get my drift), I don't think enough of the hordes have any programming experience at all for this to be a valid explanation. But it does make for a good troll... :-) >I was flipping around, caught Educational Channel 20, where all the >colleges air their telecourses... I caught an Internet tutorial type >of program, and they were demonstrating the E-mail software. The guy >hit reply, as the voice over explained about the quoted text that >appeared, while the guy at the keyboard not only typed his response >at the top of the message, but he typed it to the RIGHT of a >!!! > >Then the voice-over added that you could insert sentences between >lines to discuss certain points, at which point the guy typed in.. >you guessed it... "I agree 100%!!!" And I don't recall the voice-over >saying anything about trimming down the quoted text. If so-called "educational" programs are airing such garbage, then the Net is indeed doomed. Our only hope is that the general literacy level falls fast enough that the newsgroups are left to those of us who still have the ability and desire to deal with text. The masses will hopefully migrate to that great Romper Room known as the World Wide Web. >It has become apparent that we cannot blame a single group for >Internet cluelessness. I can remember just a couple of years ago >when the news servers would reject an article with too much quoted >text, or snipped anything past four lines of your signature, and >now they're making Usenet software that defaults to HTML. >But we can blame WebTV for having no telnet and a crappy IRC client. "IRC? What's that? I once heard some computer whiz talk about some ancient thing called Eff Tee Pee. Is it anything like that?" One consolation is that since an average luser's transaction will soon be umpteen megabytes, those of us who still use text will be able to sneak an entire day's volume of netnews into the equivalent space. We'll be rats in the wainscoting, unnoticed but thriving on scraps of bandwidth that nobody will miss. -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!gatech!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!not-for-mail From: cddukes@cc04du.unity.ncsu.edu (Christopher D Dukes) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 25 May 1998 16:20:55 GMT Organization: The Alfred Packer Memorial Dining Hall Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6kc5p7$9ea$1@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <6k91ir$a36@news3.force9.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cc05du.unity.ncsu.edu X-Html-LART:

12:00

 X-UCE-Policy-00: Unsolicited Commercial E-mail sent to this account will X-UCE-Policy-01: be billed a $1000 editing fee. The sending of UCE to X-UCE-Policy-02: this account will be considered acceptance of these X-UCE-Policy-03: terms. In article <6k91ir$a36@news3.force9.net>, David Hookham wrote: >velcro_spy@webtv.net wrote in message ><6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net>... > >>The new people who use the boxes are going to fundamentally change the >>Internet. > > >Yes? By taking their place as rightful heirs of the AOL wooden spoon? It's so much fun whacking webtv users with the AOHell wooden spoon. The ones that respond back say that I'm scary. -- The following must be destroyed. Microsoft, Lyons Partnership. Balkanize USENET! Vote from the rooftops!! The best thing in RTP is now SMOG! Sending unsolicited commercial massmail to this account may result in a network outage for your site. Have a nice day. "Securing a Windows NT system -- Wire Cutters or Thermite?" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!thorn.cc.usm.edu!medea.gp.usm.edu!not-for-mail From: jmpierce@medea.gp.usm.edu (Jim M. Pierce) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 25 May 1998 16:23:57 GMT Organization: The University of Southern Mississippi Lines: 16 Message-ID: <6kc5ut$1vh$4@thorn.cc.usm.edu> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <6k91ir$a36@news3.force9.net> <356aff69.1524541@158.152.254.65> <6kbvc0$6k2@news3.force9.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: medea.gp.usm.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950515BETA PL0] David Hookham wrote: [] I should really have added a smiley or two here. I have encountered one thinking and one non-thinking person who was using Webtv in the last two months. How did I know the person was non-thinking ? He got upset as I had been making fun of a spammer... JimP. -- me: jmpierce at medea dot gp dot usm dot edu rhundt@fcc.gov jquell@fcc.gov sness@fcc.gov rchong@fcc.gov pyramid@ftc.gov UCE@ftc.gov abuse@bigfoot.com fraud@uspis.gov netpiracy@spa.org postmaster@[127.0.0.1] ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!newsfeed.ecrc.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news.idt.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail From: velcro_spy@webtv.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 20:23:46 -0400 Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 19 Message-ID: <6kd22i$hq1$1@newsd-124.bryant.webtv.net> References: <6kchpp$m07@nntp02.primenet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Nick Bensema: Well, maybe the next WebTV auto-upgrade will have telnet. Also look forward to some memory expansions, and maybe third party software eventually. I try to be on-topic. Folklore doesn't have to be old, does it? Also I read some of those posts about wagon wheels appearing to rotate backwards, at least my post is about computer issues. If you look around at the nascent impact of the set-top box users, I think you will see a move for the better in terms of creativity, civility, innovation. No offense to computer nerds, but these people are not the computer nerds. vs ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!hearsay.demon.co.uk!user From: slavins.at.hearsay.demon.co.uk@localhost (Simon Slavin) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:00:58 +0100 Organization: First Sirian Bank Message-ID: References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: hearsay.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: hearsay.demon.co.uk:194.222.24.177 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 896126439 nnrp-02:6579 NO-IDENT hearsay.demon.co.uk:194.222.24.177 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 17 In article <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net>, velcro_spy@webtv.net wrote: > The set-top browsers are a major step in the evolution of the Internet > as communication tool. What is happening is a whole new subset of > humanity who couldn't afford (or just didn't want) to purchase a $1200 > to $2400 modern computer [snip] and can't afford (or just didn't want to) to read news.announce.newusers before posting to newsgroups ... Simon. -- Simon Slavin | [It] contains "vegetable stabilizer" | which sounds ominous. How unstable Junktrap deletes unread >4 UBEs/day.| are vegetables? Check email address for junk-guard. | -- Jeff Zahn@pipeline.com ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!128.113.100.15!rpi!not-for-mail From: jonesm2@alumni.rpi.edu (Michael David Jones) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 25 May 1998 23:44:15 -0400 Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY, USA Lines: 41 Message-ID: <6kddqf$1ks6@alumni.rpi.edu> References: <6kchpp$m07@nntp02.primenet.com> <6kd22i$hq1$1@newsd-124.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.rpi.edu X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #2 (NOV) velcro_spy@webtv.net writes: >Nick Bensema: >Well, maybe the next WebTV auto-upgrade will have telnet. Also look >forward to some memory expansions, and maybe third party software >eventually. Remarkable. Prediction: everybody who is going to make money from webTV has already made it. In the tradition of the Coleco Adam and the PCjr, the masses will vote with their wallets. >I try to be on-topic. Folklore doesn't have to be old, does it? Also I >read some of those posts about wagon wheels appearing to rotate >backwards, at least my post is about computer issues. Off topic in one direction doesn't excuse off topic in the other. Folklore pretty much *does* have to be old; that's part of what makes it lore. Besides, there's nothing at all folklorish about predicting how webTV is going to change the net. If anything, comp.society.futures would be a more appropriate place. >If you look around at the nascent impact of the set-top box users, I >think you will see a move for the better in terms of creativity, >civility, innovation. No offense to computer nerds, but these people are >not the computer nerds. A couple of notes: First, you're not only the first webtv poster I've ever seen use the word "nascent", I strongly suspect you're the only webtv poster I've ever seen who could use it in a sentence. Don't proclaim yourself the archetype too quickly. Second, given the choice of creativity, civility, and innovation between computer nerds and folks who are eating up "Love Boat: The New Voyages" and Jerry Springer, quite honestly I'll take the computer nerds. Mike Jones | jonesm2@rpi.edu There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Whoever can't hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit it at all. - Friedrich Nietzsche ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: WebTV and You Sender: news@world.std.com (Mr Usenet Himself) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 04:37:35 GMT X-Battlestar-Galactica-Date: 7002 centons, 63 microns, .05 lenorts References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <6kaat0$6bk@nntp02.primenet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp0a018.std.com Organization: welcome datacomp X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Lines: 35 In alt.folklore.computers and alt.religion.kibology, nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) wrote: > > [stuff I don't wannt quote, squiggle squiggle squiggle] > > The set-top box can be the next Commodore 64 if it's done right. > > And yes, I know what Commodore 64 BBSes were like in the 1980's. Hey, > if you went outside and spoke to people on the street at random, you'd > get the same results. I've done that. You should try it sometime. Just walk up to one of them and start talking about the vast conspiracy to hide the fact that the Boston Public Library is controlling Bigfoot with its fleet of NATO UFOs, and you've be surprised how many people are so stupid that they just run away instead of thinking of something erudite to say on the subject. Also, on the subway, try quoting everything someone just said and then say "Me Too!" Then shout "*PLONK!*" and hit them over the head with a big invisible mallet. Anyhow, the random people you talk to usually don't understand the finer points of Internet etiquette, and many say stupid things like "I beg your pardon?" and "Do you need a doctor?" It even works if you don't wear your "ALF" T-shirt! -- K. ALF was the first *serious* TV show to feature a puppet. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!newsfeed.ecrc.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:10:45 GMT Organization: Dis Message-ID: <356c5be9.1892626@158.152.254.65> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <6k91ir$a36@news3.force9.net> <356aff69.1524541@158.152.254.65> <6kbvc0$6k2@news3.force9.net> <6kchpp$m07@nntp02.primenet.com> <2798.449T1048T9284813@sky.bus.com> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 896163059 nnrp-01:7289 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 On 25 May 98 15:28:20 -0800, "Charlie Gibbs" wrote: >If so-called "educational" programs are airing such garbage, then >the Net is indeed doomed. Our only hope is that the general literacy >level falls fast enough that the newsgroups are left to those of >us who still have the ability and desire to deal with text. Excellent! Future sig material there, thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "When I said 'hello' just now, it sounded exactly like Jason. Which isn't surprising. Because I'm him!" - Jason, Havakazoo XXsam@greenaum.demon.co.ukXX http://www.greenaum.demon.co.uk/ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.gol.com!news-tokyo.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-hk.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.magna.com.au!not-for-mail From: rdouglas@magna.com.au (Roger Douglas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:03:38 GMT Organization: Ministry of Whimsy, Perth, Austria Lines: 47 Message-ID: <356a7ecd.5384087@news.magna.com.au> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <6kaat0$6bk@nntp02.primenet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: rdouglas.magna.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 So kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) turns round and goes: >In alt.folklore.computers and alt.religion.kibology, >nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) wrote: .... >> if you went outside and spoke to people on the street at random, you'd >> get the same results. > >I've done that. You should try it sometime. ... >Also, on the subway, try quoting everything someone just said and then >say "Me Too!" > >Then shout "*PLONK!*" and hit them over the head with a big >invisible mallet. > >Anyhow, the random people you talk to usually don't understand the finer >points of Internet etiquette, and many say stupid things like >"I beg your pardon?" and "Do you need a doctor?" One of the best things to try is real-life trolling. No, I don't mean fishing, though that's fun too. No, it works this way: 1. You need someone else with you for this. A small child or elderly relative is good, but a wife, husband or close friend will do just as well. 2. You need to be somewhere where there are people close to you, and not just casual passers-by. Standing in a queue is excellent, so is a restaurant where the people at adjacent tables are close enough to hear your conversation. Best of all is somewhere like a museum or art gallery, where groups of people form in front of an interesting exhibit. 3. You don't need to be shout, just speak loud enough for people nearby to hear you clearly. Speak in a firm, opinionated sort of voice. What Stephen Potter called a "plonking" tone of voice is perfect. 4. The rest of it is just like trolling on Usenet. You make a statement which is so ludicrously and obviously wrong that everyone nearby will feel an almost irresistable desire to correct you. Some people will actually pluck up the courage to do so, in which case you can follow up with further wacky conversation. You score more points the longer you can get them to continue patiently explaining something to you. Others (better still) will be unable to bring themselves to speak to a total stranger, and may be so frustrated by this that THEIR HEADS WILL EXPLODE. If this happens you have won. --R. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Tue, 26 May 98 09:29:33 GMT Message-ID: <896174973snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <6kaat0$6bk@nntp02.primenet.com> <356a7ecd.5384087@news.magna.com.au> Reply-To: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 896175502 mail2news:8630 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-20.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net!tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 Lines: 18 In article <356a7ecd.5384087@news.magna.com.au> rdouglas@magna.com.au "Roger Douglas" writes: > stranger, and may be so frustrated by this that THEIR HEADS WILL EXPLODE. > If this happens you have won. I have been known, in a crowded restaurant, to go into a quiet conversation with my wife, then say loudly, "But Of Course It Was A DIFFERENT ELEPHANT," then watch the reactions. I really thought one man was going to do himself some damage. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.wli.net!newsfeed.frii.net!uunet!in4.uu.net!news.apk.net!not-for-mail From: drushel@apk.net (Richard Drushel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 26 May 1998 11:08:49 GMT Organization: Akademia Pana Kleksa, Public Access Uni* Site Lines: 22 Message-ID: <6ke7s1$h2n$1@nerd.apk.net> References: <6kchpp$m07@nntp02.primenet.com> <6kd22i$hq1$1@newsd-124.bryant.webtv.net> <6kddqf$1ks6@alumni.rpi.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: junior.apk.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Michael David Jones (jonesm2@alumni.rpi.edu) spake unto the ether:: : Prediction: everybody who is going to make money from : webTV has already made it. In the tradition of the Coleco Adam and the : PCjr, the masses will vote with their wallets. I've made this observation before (maybe not in a.f.c); webTV *is* the Coleco ADAM of the 1990s, both in terms of design aims and eventual market success ;-) Every ADAM has a remarkable bit of boot code which checks to see if the 300-bps ADAMlink modem is on-line; if so, it tries to download (from some never-implemented Coleco dialup service) a 2-byte length, a 2-byte load address, and then length bytes of code; then it jumps to the start of the code. JAVA applets, 1983 version :-) *Rich* (ADAM hobbyist) -- Richard F. Drushel, Ph.D. | "Aplysia californica" is your taxonomic Department of Biology, Slug Division | nomenclature. / A slug, by any other Case Western Reserve University | name, is still a slug by nature. Cleveland, Ohio 44106-7080 U.S.A. | -- apologies to Data, "Ode to Spot" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!globalcenter0!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail From: nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 26 May 1998 14:52:01 -0700 Organization: PrImE NuT (602)864-1005 <--- <--- <--- Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6kfdi1$r6u@nntp02.primenet.com> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> X-Posted-By: nickb@206.165.6.203 (nickb) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test58 (13 May 97) In article , wrote: > >You don't even need a full-function PC to connect to the Internet. A >dumb terminal (VT220, Wyse 60, etc.) and a modem dialing into a Unix shell >account will do just fine. Just about the cruftiest PC with a terminal >emulator will do the trick. Heck, even a Commodore 64 can be pressed into >such service! (There was a version of C64 Kermit that would even provide >an 80-col. screen via software.) There are many Commodore 64 programs that do that... the most popular being Novaterm. I also read in Driven about a guy who programmed a rudimentary TCP stack for the C64, with a Telnet and IRC client. Also, there was a program for the Vic-20 which would tweak the screen into 40 columns via software, and emulate VT100 on two 40-column screens. -- Nick Bensema 98-KUPD Red Card #710563 UIN: 2135445 ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: Ian Stirling <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 16:20:12 +0100 Organization: None. Message-ID: <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 896202579 mail2news:12610 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-20.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net!mauve.demon.co.uk User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971106 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.33 (i586)) X-Note: Anti-UCE in effect, replying should work if you are not UCE'ng X-Warning0: For unsolicited commercial email, sent or causing to be sent to my email address X-Warning1: on this message, I reserve the right to levy a charge for my time and expenses X-Warning2: of up to 100 pounds sterling per message, plus legal, penalty or other costs. Lines: 20 velcro_spy@webtv.net wrote: : The set-top browsers are a major step in the evolution of the Internet : as communication tool. What is happening is a whole new subset of : humanity who couldn't afford (or just didn't want) to purchase a $1200 : to $2400 modern computer, they can purchase on a whim and a modest : paycheck a WebTV or similar unit. I'm seeing pretty top-end systems going for about $1000, and "second user" machines that far outperform a webTV well under $300, with monitor. You are not then locked into one proprietory system, and can run whatever software you want. A 386/20 is fine for acessing the internet, with the correct software, admittedly a faster processor will cover up for poor software. -- Ian Stirling. Designing a linux PDA, see http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ ----- ******* If replying by email, check notices in header ******* ----- Money is a powerful aphrodisiac, but flowers work almost as well. Robert A Heinlein. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!netaxs.com!nospam From: nospam@bucket.bit () Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 26 May 1998 17:53:56 GMT Organization: Send spam to the bit bucket... Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: unix2.netaxs.com X-No-Archive: Yes X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) On Tue, 26 May 1998 16:20:12 +0100, Ian Stirling <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote: >A 386/20 is fine for acessing the internet, with the correct software, >admittedly a faster processor will cover up for poor software. You don't even need a full-function PC to connect to the Internet. A dumb terminal (VT220, Wyse 60, etc.) and a modem dialing into a Unix shell account will do just fine. Just about the cruftiest PC with a terminal emulator will do the trick. Heck, even a Commodore 64 can be pressed into such service! (There was a version of C64 Kermit that would even provide an 80-col. screen via software.) -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bob Alpert * Non-spam email may be sent to balpert "at" netaxs.com. | | The SpamGard(tm) password "ZOG" must be placed in your Subject line. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 26 May 1998 20:36:30 GMT Organization: teabag Message-ID: <6kf94e$3el$5@teabag.demon.co.uk> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 896293982 nnrp-04:2102 NO-IDENT teabag.demon.co.uk:193.237.4.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.0 Lines: 19 In article , nospam@bucket.bit () writes: > You don't even need a full-function PC to connect to the Internet. A > dumb terminal (VT220, Wyse 60, etc.) and a modem dialing into a Unix shell > account will do just fine. Hm, been there, done that! I actually thought I was quite nifty because I had a 2400 baud modem, with MNP error correction and compression -- talk about supercharged! What's more, it could plug straight into a 'phone socket, so mucking about with them old acoustic couplers. Shame that the pocket-sized modem didn't really aid the portability of a whacking great VT200 clone. Time was when a 14,400 baud Trailblazer modem on line for a couple of hours a day could grab you a full newsfeed. The worrying thing is that it wasn't that long ago. It sounds sort-of hollow going on about "the good old days" when you're talking about 1991. Chris. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!158.43.192.17!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: WebTV and You Sender: news@world.std.com (Mr Usenet Himself) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 07:03:40 GMT X-Battlestar-Galactica-Date: 7002 centons, 63 microns, .05 lenorts References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <6kaat0$6bk@nntp02.primenet.com> <356a7ecd.5384087@news.magna.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp0a001.std.com Organization: welcome datacomp X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Followup-To: alt.religion.kibology Lines: 66 In alt.folklore.computers & alt.religion.kibology, rdouglas@magna.com.au (Roger Douglas) wrote: > > So kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) turns round and goes: > > > > Also, on the subway, try quoting everything someone just said and then > > say "Me Too!" > > > > Then shout "*PLONK!*" and hit them over the head with a big > > invisible mallet. > > One of the best things to try is real-life trolling. > [...] You make a statement > which is so ludicrously and obviously wrong that everyone nearby will feel > an almost irresistable desire to correct you. Some people will actually > pluck up the courage to do so, in which case you can follow up with further > wacky conversation. You score more points the longer you can get them to > continue patiently explaining something to you. > Others (better still) will be unable to bring themselves to speak to a total > stranger, and may be so frustrated by this that THEIR HEADS WILL EXPLODE. > If this happens you have won. But be warned that if you TAKE IT TO SECOND LEVEL and go for THE ULTIMATE TROLLING EXPERIENCE and their heads don't explode, YOUR HEAD EXPLODES! TWO! HEADS! ENTER! ONE! HEAD! DOESN'T! EXPLODE! To purchase tickets to Paul Verhoeven's TROLLTOUCH, press here: +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Anyway, real-world trollery is best performed on the Green Line trolley. Trolley trollery can take man forms: walking across the tracks and shouting "LA LA LA, I'M WALKING ON THE THIRD RAIL, LA LA LA" and then when someone points out that you're in no danger, call attention to your rubber galoshes. Or, better yet, emphasize that you have to pull the cord to signal you want the train to stop when it's pulling into Park Street Over. Then start talking about how you're worried that the MIT students will weld the train to the tracks by putting magnesium on them like Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Harry Houdini discovered when they teamed up to climb El Capitan to find the telepathic dolphin. -- K. Matt? ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!taos.demon.co.uk!!dg From: dg@ (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:58:08 GMT Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Message-ID: <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 896284688 nnrp-03:8234 NO-IDENT taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 19 In article , wrote: [...] >You don't even need a full-function PC to connect to the Internet. A >dumb terminal (VT220, Wyse 60, etc.) and a modem dialing into a Unix shell >account will do just fine. Just about the cruftiest PC with a terminal >emulator will do the trick. Heck, even a Commodore 64 can be pressed into >such service! (There was a version of C64 Kermit that would even provide >an 80-col. screen via software.) How about an old logic-only glass tty with a first-generation modem? Internet access with no CPU in sight. -- +- David Given ----------------+ | Work: dg@tao.co.uk | Help! The paranoids are out to get | Play: dg@freeyellow.com | me! +- http://wiredsoc.ml.org/~dg -+ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Wed, 27 May 98 17:31:03 GMT Message-ID: <896290263snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 896293600 mail2news:26558 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-10.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net!tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 Lines: 15 In article <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> dg@ "David Given" writes: > How about an old logic-only glass tty with a first-generation modem? > Internet access with no CPU in sight. Whaddyamean glass? Use an ASR33 like a real hacker. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!199.232.56.18!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail From: "dave porter" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 27 May 1998 20:34:06 GMT Organization: none of the above Lines: 19 Message-ID: <01bd89ae$bc2666b0$0ba17392@glastonbury> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <896290263snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 146.115.161.11 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 27 May 1998 20:34:06 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 ASR33? Oh, one of those small, lightweight, modern teletypes. Real old farts use a KSR35. Now there was a beast! dave -- For email, please remove the 'w' from my address. Sorry. Robert Billing wrote in article <896290263snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>... > In article <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> > dg@ "David Given" writes: > > > How about an old logic-only glass tty with a first-generation modem? > > Internet access with no CPU in sight. > > Whaddyamean glass? Use an ASR33 like a real hacker. > > ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!utk.edu!panacea.phys.utk.edu!dbd From: dbd@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 28 May 1998 05:35:09 GMT Organization: Formerly U. Tenn. Knoxville/Physics Dept.; presently extremely dis Lines: 21 Message-ID: <6kit2d$2nb$1@gaia.ns.utk.edu> References: <6kaat0$6bk@nntp02.primenet.com> <356a7ecd.5384087@news.magna.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: panacea.phys.utk.edu rdouglas@magna.com.au (Roger Douglas) writes: >3. You don't need to be shout, just speak loud enough for people nearby to >hear you clearly. Speak in a firm, opinionated sort of voice. What Stephen >Potter called a "plonking" tone of voice is perfect. > >4. The rest of it is just like trolling on Usenet. You make a statement >which is so ludicrously and obviously wrong that everyone nearby will feel >an almost irresistable desire to correct you. Some people will actually >pluck up the courage to do so, in which case you can follow up with further >wacky conversation. You score more points the longer you can get them to >continue patiently explaining something to you. "And way down there, those shi-ny lit-tle black things? Those are bugs; they make the grass grow!" Dave "Charles Schulze: a man ahead of everyone's time" DeLaney -- \/David DeLaney dbd@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!bigdog!tc1-30.intercomm.com From: cha-ack-cha@ack.mactyre.net.ack (Chihuahua Gilliam Fnordling-5 (with an umlaut over it) Grub) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 06:21:55 GMT Organization: Dentists for Manatees and Christians With Guns Lines: 45 Message-ID: <356d01c3.31691572@news.intercomm.com> References: <6kaat0$6bk@nntp02.primenet.com> <356a7ecd.5384087@news.magna.com.au> <6kit2d$2nb$1@gaia.ns.utk.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.160.40.6 X-Trace: 896336559 LO0AHNKJI2806D1A0C usenet77.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Olestra swami wombat dbd@panacea.phys.utk.edu (David DeLaney) orpmatted scimonogre ad nauseum: |>4. The rest of it is just like trolling on Usenet. You make a statement |>which is so ludicrously and obviously wrong that everyone nearby will feel |>an almost irresistable desire to correct you. Some people will actually |>pluck up the courage to do so, in which case you can follow up with further |>wacky conversation. You score more points the longer you can get them to |>continue patiently explaining something to you. | |"And way down there, those shi-ny lit-tle black things? Those are bugs; |they make the grass grow!" To recap: trolling, in real life, and on Usenet, is like explaining things to little kids. Except you don't even have to keep a straight face. And you're not required by law to wear pants. Argonauts... ...this is Chihu, signing off. -- Chihuahua Gilliam Fnordling-5 (with an umlaut over it) Grub 702.FIT.TOWN ~ ICQ # 7883370 ~ chacha@mactyre.net | "Ask Me Das Bistro: Where Every Morning Is Like A New Day | About My http://users.intercomm.com/teddt/db/ | Geek Code!" ----- Be still, my love, my watermelon rind. I am consumed with your collection of agile fans and spare blades. From the Surrealist Compliment Generator (http://pharmdec.wustl.edu/cgi-bin/jardin_scripts/SCG) ----- "Some posts are a sad cry for help. Others are a happy celebration of psychosis." --Kibo, a.r.k. Of course, when explaining things to little kids, you're only required by law to wear pants if people can see you. So draw those window shades tight, folks! ***ATTENTION .SIG BOTS!*** Please snip everything above this line! fnord. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!207.172.3.49!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!news.ultranet.com!d7 From: jmfbahxx@ma.ultranet.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Thu, 28 May 98 12:12:12 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <6kjnbq$dfg$2@ligarius.ultra.net> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <896290263snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: d7.dial-17.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 28 May 1998 13:03:54 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 In article <896290263snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>, Robert Billing wrote: >In article <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> > dg@ "David Given" writes: > >> How about an old logic-only glass tty with a first-generation modem? >> Internet access with no CPU in sight. > > Whaddyamean glass? Use an ASR33 like a real hacker. > They wouldn't let me. I typed too fast. If a 33 was the only terminal available, I was constantly reminded to keep my speed down to 35w.p.m. /BAH ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!thorn.cc.usm.edu!medea.gp.usm.edu!not-for-mail From: jmpierce@medea.gp.usm.edu (Jim M. Pierce) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 28 May 1998 16:22:27 GMT Organization: The University of Southern Mississippi Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6kk303$sco$1@thorn.cc.usm.edu> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: medea.gp.usm.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950515BETA PL0] nospam@bucket.bit wrote: [] You don't even need a full-function PC to connect to the Internet. A [] dumb terminal (VT220, Wyse 60, etc.) and a modem dialing into a Unix shell [] account will do just fine. Just about the cruftiest PC with a terminal [] emulator will do the trick. Heck, even a Commodore 64 can be pressed into [] such service! (There was a version of C64 Kermit that would even provide [] an 80-col. screen via software.) The university, where I'm posting from, used to have Wyse-60 terminals in the computer lab for students. They were set to vt-100 emulation, and were used to log into a Unix box, or the Honeywell/Bulll CP6 mainframe for Bitnet. Now Win95 with QVT/Term is in that lab... yuck. JimP. -- Jim Pierce jmpierce ATmedea.gp.usm.edu Disclaimer: Standard. Recent read: 'The Royal Oak Disaster' by Gerald S. Snyder 'Scene contains 375 frame level objects; 5 infinite.' Pov-Ray 3.x ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!taos.demon.co.uk!!dg From: dg@ (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:45:03 GMT Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Message-ID: <896373903.21435.0.nnrp-08.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <6kk303$sco$1@thorn.cc.usm.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 896373903 nnrp-08:21435 NO-IDENT taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 22 In article <6kk303$sco$1@thorn.cc.usm.edu>, Jim M. Pierce wrote: [...] > The university, where I'm posting from, used to have Wyse-60 >terminals in the computer lab for students. They were set to vt-100 >emulation, and were used to log into a Unix box, or the Honeywell/Bulll >CP6 mainframe for Bitnet. Oooh... Wyse terminals! Wonderful things. Nice keyboards, nice displays, incredibly small, and *totally silent*. Wyse really knew how to build hardware. > Now Win95 with QVT/Term is in that lab... yuck. My old university did that, too. They make rather bad terminals and cost a lot more. -- +- David Given ----------------+ If you want to surf the Information | Work: dg@tao.co.uk | Superhighway, be prepared to be run | Play: dg@freeyellow.com | over. +- http://wiredsoc.ml.org/~dg -+ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!209.6.107.173!newsfeed.xcom.net!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:54:53 -0400 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 15 Message-ID: <356E075D.6449A130@stoneweb.com> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <896290263snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6kjnbq$dfg$2@ligarius.ultra.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: zephyr.ultranet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 29 May 1998 00:55:25 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) jmfbahxx@ma.ultranet.com wrote: > > If a 33 was the only terminal available, I was constantly reminded > to keep my speed down to 35w.p.m. [...] by the 1/2 inch key travel and 0-key rollover [...] -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.102.31.251!news.cmc.net!holocron.odc.net!not-for-mail From: mwestfal@mail.odc.net (Mike Westfall) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 28 May 1998 22:12:25 GMT Organization: Digital Odyssey Internet Services Lines: 12 Message-ID: <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: vorlon.odc.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] In alt.folklore.computers, David Given (dg@) wrote: >How about an old logic-only glass tty with a first-generation modem? >Internet access with no CPU in sight. Ha! Just *TRY* to find an ISP that'll let you connect at 300 baud! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike mwestfal@odc.net http://web.csusb.edu/public/csci/mwestfal Linux religious dogma: "The Gates of Hell shall not prevail." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!howland.erols.net!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.130.5!mtf1!newsadm From: "Harold Rabbie" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 29 May 1998 00:40:01 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <6kl051$pfm@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <6kk303$sco$1@thorn.cc.usm.edu> <896373903.21435.0.nnrp-08.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.64.105.164 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1162 Lines: 24 David Given wrote in article <896373903.21435.0.nnrp-08.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk>... > In article <6kk303$sco$1@thorn.cc.usm.edu>, > Jim M. Pierce wrote: > [...] > > The university, where I'm posting from, used to have Wyse-60 > >terminals in the computer lab for students. They were set to vt-100 > >emulation, and were used to log into a Unix box, or the Honeywell/Bulll > >CP6 mainframe for Bitnet. > > Oooh... Wyse terminals! Wonderful things. Nice keyboards, nice displays, > incredibly small, and *totally silent*. Wyse really knew how to build > hardware. My favorite terminal was the SOROC (ca. 1977). Their logo was the top of a beer can with the ring thingy pulled off. That's because SOROC was an anagram of COORS. -- Harold Rabbie Saratoga, CA Remove spam trap when replying ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!torn!news.trentu.ca!csess From: csess@blaze.trentu.ca (Eric S. Smith: Left-Field Marshal) Subject: Re: WebTV and You Sender: news@news.trentu.ca (Ken Brown) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 03:06:43 GMT X-Nntp-Posting-Host: blaze.trentu.ca References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> Organization: Trent University, Peterborough Canada Lines: 23 In article <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net>, Mike Westfall wrote: >In alt.folklore.computers, David Given (dg@) wrote: >>How about an old logic-only glass tty with a first-generation modem? >>Internet access with no CPU in sight. >Ha! Just *TRY* to find an ISP that'll let you connect at 300 baud! Hmm. Do they have a choice? I know that my university's 14.4s will grind down that low (tried it once), and ISPs are probably still supporting 14.4. I've mislaid my modem manual, but I think that the worst you can do is specify "connect at this speed and no other." That would mean that, provided modem manufacturers aren't conspiring against their own heritage, those turbo whiz-bang 56k toys ought to be able to chat happily with 300 bps acoustic-coupled beasts. Do I hear 150? 150, anyone? More pressingly, find an ISP that offers shell accounts -- it's not impossible, yet, but one day no doubt will be. --Eric Smith (Who has old magazines lying around with CompuServe and Quantum Link ads in them, saying that you pay more per hour for the high-speed 1200 bps lines...) ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!korova.insync.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!netaxs.com!nospam From: nospam@bucket.bit () Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 29 May 1998 04:01:10 GMT Organization: Send spam to the bit bucket... Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: unix3.netaxs.com X-No-Archive: Yes X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) On Fri, 29 May 1998 03:06:43 GMT, Eric S. Smith: Left-Field Marshal wrote: >Hmm. Do they have a choice? I know that my university's 14.4s will grind I know that here you can make a connection at 300 bps, but you'll time out of the login process before all of the login messages slowly scroll up the screen. :-) >More pressingly, find an ISP that offers shell accounts -- it's not We have 'em here. In fact, that's the only kind of Internet access I have, since I have no interest in the "point and click" garbage. >impossible, yet, but one day no doubt will be. I hope not!!! What a horror, to be banished to point-and-click hell! (Though I guess a Linux box could be used with SLIP or PPP to keep a proper command-line/character cell user interface...) >(Who has old magazines lying around with CompuServe and Quantum Link ads > in them, saying that you pay more per hour for the high-speed 1200 bps > lines...) I started with Compuserve using a 300-bps acoustic coupler and an "Interact" 8080-based microcomputer. Cost was $6.00/hr for "off-peak" access, and yes, if you had a high-speed 1200 bps modem it cost a lot more! (I guess this must have been around 1980 or thereabouts.) -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bob Alpert * Non-spam email may be sent to balpert "at" netaxs.com. | | The SpamGard(tm) password "ZOG" must be placed in your Subject line. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 05:39:22 -0400 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 25 Message-ID: <356E824A.44B0394D@stoneweb.com> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: zephyr.ultranet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 29 May 1998 09:39:56 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) Eric S. Smith: Left-Field Marshal wrote: > > [...] provided modem manufacturers aren't conspiring against their > own heritage, those turbo whiz-bang 56k toys ought to be able to > chat happily with 300 bps acoustic-coupled beasts. Do I hear 150? > 150, anyone? Bell 103(? Is that right?), the standard for 300 bps and below, is good right on down to DC if required. It's a very simple frequency- shift-keying (FSK) technique which sends one tone for a "0" and another for a "1" (the numbers escape me at the moment an the doco is out of range). So, yes, 150, 110, 75, and even the depths below that are plumbable with modems. Although why anybody would want to go there is a bit of a mystery to me. -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ais.net!iagnet.net!iagnet.net!news.bright.net!not-for-mail From: deke.spamblock@generous.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 06:46:16 GMT Organization: GenerousCity is a virtue - find romance at http://generous.net Lines: 34 Message-ID: <356e57b3.81455128@news.bright.net> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: paul-cas2-cs-12.dial.bright.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 On 29 May 1998 04:01:10 GMT, nospam@bucket.bit () wrote: >I started with Compuserve using a 300-bps acoustic coupler and an >"Interact" 8080-based microcomputer. Cost was $6.00/hr for "off-peak" >access, and yes, if you had a high-speed 1200 bps modem it cost a lot >more! (I guess this must have been around 1980 or thereabouts.) I suspect it was a little later than that. (I'm trying to remember the chronology of the 8080; seems to me that it was pretty much Zilog Z-80 versus MOStek 6502 in 1980, but I wouldn't swear to it. CompuServe started in 1969 as a time-share computer service, but they didn't start the information service until 1979, when Radio Shack marketed it for them; it was called "Micro-Net" at that time. I believe it was 1981 or 1982 that H&R Block bought them, and the name changed from Micro-Net to CIS. I don't know when they changed the name from Compu-Serv to CompuServe. There is still a remnant, BTW, of the old "Micro-Net" at CompuServe. When you "GO MAUG" to reach the apple forum, MAUG stands for MicroNet Apple User's Group. And that's not even the oldest forum on CIS - the aviation forum is. ------------------------------------------------- A size-friendly community for romance Join our discussion mailing list at http://generous.net/list/list.shtml ------------------------------------------------- Or chat with us on IRC - DALnet channel #GenerousSingles ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!netnews.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!taos.demon.co.uk!!dg From: dg@ (David Given) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:03:51 GMT Organization: I'm organised? Wow! Message-ID: <896439831.4381.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 896439831 nnrp-09:4381 NO-IDENT taos.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net Lines: 31 In article , Eric S. Smith: Left-Field Marshal wrote: [...] >Hmm. Do they have a choice? I know that my university's 14.4s will grind >down that low (tried it once), and ISPs are probably still supporting >14.4. I've mislaid my modem manual, but I think that the worst you can do >is specify "connect at this speed and no other." That would mean that, >provided modem manufacturers aren't conspiring against their own heritage, >those turbo whiz-bang 56k toys ought to be able to chat happily with 300 >bps acoustic-coupled beasts. Do I hear 150? 150, anyone? [...] 150? Ha! Most modems these days will happily do 1200/75 or 75/1200 (Prestel server and client, respectively), so it should be theoretically possible to set up up 75/75 link. OTOH, I can *type* faster than 75 baud. When I had a Prestel modem as my sole net access, I used to connect at 75/1200, download my email at 1200 baud, disconnect, compose messages offline, and then connect at 1200/75 in order to send them. If I had to type anything at 75 baud there was no point in composing messages offline because it was so slow to send them. Just think --- all the famous old 8-bits used to read data off tape at 300 and 1200 baud. How could we bear it? -- +- David Given ----------------+ If you want to surf the Information | Work: dg@tao.co.uk | Superhighway, be prepared to be run | Play: dg@freeyellow.com | over. +- http://wiredsoc.ml.org/~dg -+ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk (Robert Billing) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Fri, 29 May 98 11:29:56 GMT Message-ID: <896441396snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> <356E824A.44B0394D@stoneweb.com> Reply-To: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 896462213 mail2news:22007 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-12.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net![158.152.132.30] X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 Lines: 16 In article <356E824A.44B0394D@stoneweb.com> carl.friend@stoneweb.com "Carl R. Friend" writes: > So, yes, 150, 110, 75, and even the depths below that are plumbable > with modems. Although why anybody would want to go there is a bit of > a mystery to me. Nostalgia? I *came* *from* 110 baud. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!netnews.com!news-xfer.netaxs.com!netaxs.com!nospam From: nospam@bucket.bit () Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 29 May 1998 12:01:15 GMT Organization: Send spam to the bit bucket... Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> <356e57b3.81455128@news.bright.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: unix3.netaxs.com X-No-Archive: Yes X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) On Fri, 29 May 1998 06:46:16 GMT, deke.spamblock@generous.net wrote: >I suspect it was a little later than that. (I'm trying to remember the It may have been, but not much later. It's been long enough that I don't recall exact dates, but I do know that my initial use of Compuserve predates certain other things I was involved with in the early 1980s. It was probably 1981, no later than '82. (Shortly after that I started working at a company that carried Usenet, but that's another story. :-) >chronology of the 8080; seems to me that it was pretty much Zilog Z-80 I now it's 8080-based because I still have this machine and it still works! (I learned 8080 assembler on this thing.) The "Interact" was one of the failed first wave of early home computers that hit the market in the late 1970s. It came with a whopping 16K memory, built-in 1500 bps cassette deck, and chicklet keyboard. It also had a crude sound capability, and used low-resolution bit-mapped color graphics for the video display. Text was 11 lines of 17 (uppercase-only) characters on a television screen. The Interact came with a cassette copy of Microsoft Basic copyrighted 1977. >I don't know when they changed the name from Compu-Serv to CompuServe. I don't know either. As I recall, at the time they were running on DEC-10 mainframes. I have no idea what hardware architecture they run now. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Bob Alpert * Non-spam email may be sent to balpert "at" netaxs.com. | | The SpamGard(tm) password "ZOG" must be placed in your Subject line. | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!fci-se!fci!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!209.6.107.173!newsfeed.xcom.net!news.ultranet.com!d9 From: jmfbahxx@ma.ultranet.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Fri, 29 May 98 13:13:20 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <6kmfan$q1i$3@strato.ultra.net> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <896290263snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6kjnbq$dfg$2@ligarius.ultra.net> <356E075D.6449A130@stoneweb.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d9.dial-15.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 29 May 1998 14:05:11 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 In article <356E075D.6449A130@stoneweb.com>, "Carl R. Friend" wrote: >jmfbahxx@ma.ultranet.com wrote: >> >> If a 33 was the only terminal available, I was constantly reminded >> to keep my speed down to 35w.p.m. > > [...] by the 1/2 inch key travel and 0-key rollover [...] > Nobody explained the flavor of breakage to me. It had the feel of keys jamming. The way I typed was to impose a 3-count pause between keystrokes. Not the best way to enter data when the people who need said data are breathing down your neck. I pointed this out to my powers-that-be and [thankful emoticon here] was "allowed" access to the 35s. Having access to the 35s meant that one was important in the center :-). Funny how status is determined in the computter world. /BAH ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!feed.nntp.acc.ca!island.idirect.com!news.uunet.ca!atbowler From: atbowler@thinkage.on.ca (Alan Bowler) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 29 May 1998 16:25:52 GMT Organization: Thinkage Ltd. Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6kmnig$68c$1@nntp2.uunet.ca> References: <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> <356E824A.44B0394D@stoneweb.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.102.11.4 In article <356E824A.44B0394D@stoneweb.com> "Carl R. Friend" writes: >Eric S. Smith: Left-Field Marshal wrote: >> >> [...] provided modem manufacturers aren't conspiring against their >> own heritage, those turbo whiz-bang 56k toys ought to be able to >> chat happily with 300 bps acoustic-coupled beasts. Do I hear 150? >> 150, anyone? > > Bell 103(? Is that right?), the standard for 300 bps and below, >is good right on down to DC if required. It's a very simple frequency- >shift-keying (FSK) technique which sends one tone for a "0" and >another for a "1" (the numbers escape me at the moment an the doco >is out of range). > > So, yes, 150, 110, 75, and even the depths below that are plumbable >with modems. Although why anybody would want to go there is a bit of >a mystery to me. However, you will probably find it impossible to connect below 300 baud. The problem is that the listening software now tends to depend on the modem to to do the speed matching for it. I.e. the machine talks to the modem at some high speed and depends being flow controlled. The speed matching and negotiating is done entirely between the two modems as they try to find a common signalling protocol. However, if they agree on Bell 103, they will be sending at 300 baud UNLESS the software in the computer does something to use a lower baud rate on the computer to modem connection, and new software tends not to do that any more. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ais.net!iagnet.net!iagnet.net!news.bright.net!not-for-mail From: deke.spamblock@generous.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:48:07 GMT Organization: GenerousCity is a virtue - find romance at http://generous.net Lines: 83 Message-ID: <356f27a2.11385698@news.bright.net> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> <356e57b3.81455128@news.bright.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: paul-cas1-cs-23.dial.bright.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 On 29 May 1998 12:01:15 GMT, nospam@bucket.bit () wrote: >>I don't know when they changed the name from Compu-Serv to CompuServe. >I don't know either. As I recall, at the time they were running on >DEC-10 mainframes. I have no idea what hardware architecture they run >now. When the 10s and 20s were discontinued, CompuServe started building their own computers. There's an outfit out in California that designed a number of computers that were compatible with, but considerably more powerful than, the 10s. Can't remember the name of the outfit, but their initials were SC, because they called the new puters SC-30s, SC-40s, etc. About 1993, CompuServe started using PCs running 386BSD for some special projects. Eventually Bruce MacNaughton decided that WinNT was to be the OS of the future; and licensed the source code. It was not a popular decision in the technical rank and file, for the most part, for you could come up with a *real* long list of companies who'd partnered with Microsoft on one hand, and a real short list of companies who were still in business after partnering with Microsoft. Santa Cruz Operation was about the only one on the second list, and I've heard more than one person suggest that the only reason SCO stayed in business was because Microsoft wanted Unix for the PC to be overpriced, underpowered, and undermarketed. Maury Cox, who was president of CompuServe up until about that time, had argued that one of the reasons why CompuServe had been so successful was that it owned its own operating system and wasn't at the mercy of an OS supplier. I tend to disagree. I think the reason CompuServe was so successful was that they had a dynamite system for operating their network. They could lease lines from Ma Bell, substantially underbid Ma Bell on jobs, and still enjoy a substantial profit margin, because of the nodes which did a better job of transmitting many pieces of data on a single line. But in the end, that may have been the thing that sunk CompuServe. It was the CompuServe Network, not the CompuServe Information Service, that made all the money for CompuServe, so the company *revolved* around the Network, not the Information Service. Lack of focus makes you uncompetitive - and since their nodes were designed to transmit low-speed data over 56kbps lines, they lost their advantage in the Network business when people started using 28.8 and faster modems. (If you have user at 1200bps, you can stick 100 of them at once, maybe more, on a single 56kbps line, because they are not all using all 1200bps at once. It's kinda hard to stick 3 28.8 modems on a 56kbps line, though, because the users *notice* that kind of thing.) In today's paper, they reported that the head of CompuServe Germany was sentenced to a couple years in prison because CompuServe didn't censor internet access. That's another outgrowth of the forus on the Network. The network needed to go international, so that's where CIS went, too. Well, they *had* to. There weren't enough nodes being manufactured (CompuServe made their own) to expand in the US. But instead of partnering with someone else, and letting *them* run the risk, as they had with NiftyServe in Japan, they thought they could do better by themselves. Hey, that first dialup in Germany was fantastically successful, and fantastically profitable - for a while. But when they got in trouble with foreign governments by acting as most of us want our own ISP to act, that's all she wrote. They'd have been better off doing an AOL, cooking the books to make the stock price look incredibly attractive, advertising heavily to get subscribers, making it darned near impossible to unsubscribe, and providing capacity sufficient to handle a tenth of the subscriber base. It's amazing how common decency and honesty cripples you in business.... ------------------------------------------------- A size-friendly community for romance Join our discussion mailing list at http://generous.net/list/list.shtml ------------------------------------------------- Or chat with us on IRC - DALnet channel #GenerousSingles ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!tor-nn1.netcom.ca!ntserv1!justin.frim From: justin.frim@ablelink.org (Justin Frim) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 02:32:00 GMT Organization: Ability Online Support Network Lines: 18 Message-ID: <896511131@ablelink.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ablelink.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 May 1998 03:03:17 EDT MW>Ha! Just *TRY* to find an ISP that'll let you connect at 300 baud! When I was exploring AOL Canada's 50 hour trial, the help files wouldn't work with the Windows for Workgroups 3.11 HELP.EXE program. On the package was the "AOL Canada TTY support phone number". So I set my terminal emulator to TTY, and dialed on my 14,400 USRobotics Sportster modem. The answer tone didn't sound like the tone of my ISP's modems, and all the BBS's I call, and the modem couldn't connect either! Finally I set my modem to 300 baud, and only then did it connect. I wonder if they _really were_ using old Teletype ASR33 teleprinters... :) justin.frim@ablelink.org * 1st 2.00 ~ ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 30 May 1998 02:35:12 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> <896439831.4381.0.nnrp-09.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 dg@ (David Given) asked us: > OTOH, I can *type* faster than 75 baud. When I had a Prestel modem as my > sole net access, I used to connect at 75/1200, download my email at 1200 > baud, disconnect, compose messages offline, and then connect at 1200/75 in > order to send them. If I had to type anything at 75 baud there was no > point in composing messages offline because it was so slow to send them. > > Just think --- all the famous old 8-bits used to read data off tape at 300 > and 1200 baud. How could we bear it? We had less data :-) And programs were a lot smaller ;-) -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:30:44 GMT Organization: Dis Message-ID: <3578cf4c.404216@158.152.254.65> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <6kk303$sco$1@thorn.cc.usm.edu> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 896520661 nnrp-01:4910 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 On 28 May 1998 16:22:27 GMT, jmpierce@medea.gp.usm.edu (Jim M. Pierce) wrote: > The university, where I'm posting from, used to have Wyse-60 >terminals in the computer lab for students. I learned C and COBOL on a Wyse 60. er, in 1993. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "When I said 'hello' just now, it sounded exactly like Jason. Which isn't surprising. Because I'm him!" - Jason, Havakazoo XXsam@greenaum.demon.co.ukXX http://www.greenaum.demon.co.uk/ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!fci-se!fci!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 30 May 1998 11:10:39 GMT Message-ID: <6kopff$iel$8@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: man-003.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: irk.zetnet.co.uk 896526639 18901 194.247.41.3 (30 May 1998 11:10:39 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 May 1998 11:10:39 GMT X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Lines: 13 On 1998-05-29 nospam@bucket.bit() said: :>More pressingly, find an ISP that offers shell accounts -- it's not :We have 'em here. In fact, that's the only kind of Internet access :I have, since I have no interest in the "point and click" garbage. does anyone know if there is a readily-accessible british isp that is prepared to supply a shell account? details, phone number, etc.? -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!news.mindspring.com!abuse From: abuse@orion-com.com (Joe Thompson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:30:18 -0400 Organization: Orion Computer Consulting Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37kba8m.dialup.mindspring.com X-Server-Date: 31 May 1998 02:28:19 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 In article <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net>, mwestfal@mail.odc.net (Mike Westfall) wrote: > Ha! Just *TRY* to find an ISP that'll let you connect at 300 baud! Dammit, if they won't let me use my acoustic-coupled modem I'll take my business elsewhere! How else am I going to connect from a hotel without a cellphone? -- Joe -- Joe Thompson | By sending commercial | Tech support is a fine O- He-Who-Grinds- | e-mail, you agree to | art which, once mastered, the-Unworthy | pay US$1000.00/item. | ensures loss of sanity. http://kensey.home.mindspring.com/ - Electrify the gene pool's fence! ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!fci-se!fci!masternews.telia.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!news.mindspring.com!abuse From: abuse@orion-com.com (Joe Thompson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 22:47:54 -0400 Organization: Orion Computer Consulting Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <6kf94e$3el$5@teabag.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37kba8m.dialup.mindspring.com X-Server-Date: 31 May 1998 02:45:55 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 In article <6kf94e$3el$5@teabag.demon.co.uk>, cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk (Chris Hedley) wrote: > Time was when a 14,400 baud Trailblazer modem on line for a couple of > hours a day could grab you a full newsfeed. The worrying thing is that > it wasn't that long ago. It sounds sort-of hollow going on about "the > good old days" when you're talking about 1991. Just recently somebody (was it in this group?) noted that news now sucks down a full T-1 if you take 100% of a full feed. And that was a month or two ago. I ran some figures and came up with a number close to 100% for the average annual growth of USENET traffic. Several other news admins confirmed that this jibed with their experience. And consider the average annual data exchange per user: are there any reliable figures on that? It seems like you could take the average outgoing traffic of every backbone provider, add it all together, and divide by the total number of Internet users. Of course a lot of that is repeated downloads of button images on frequently-visited web pages and the like. I'm sure I myself accumulate a couple of hundred megabytes of unique transfers per month, and much more than that if you count total data (though I shy away from saying I take up a gig per month, as that would require me to average 35 vMB per day, including weekends). People like me are a great argument in favor of companies running caching firewalls for employees. -- Joe -- Joe Thompson | By sending commercial | Tech support is a fine O- He-Who-Grinds- | e-mail, you agree to | art which, once mastered, the-Unworthy | pay US$1000.00/item. | ensures loss of sanity. http://kensey.home.mindspring.com/ - Electrify the gene pool's fence! ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!thorn.cc.usm.edu!medea.gp.usm.edu!not-for-mail From: jmpierce@medea.gp.usm.edu (Jim M. Pierce) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 31 May 1998 02:55:47 GMT Organization: The University of Southern Mississippi Lines: 21 Message-ID: <6kqgrj$q52$1@thorn.cc.usm.edu> References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <6kk303$sco$1@thorn.cc.usm.edu> <3578cf4c.404216@158.152.254.65> NNTP-Posting-Host: medea.gp.usm.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950515BETA PL0] Me: [] > The university, where I'm posting from, used to have Wyse-60 [] >terminals in the computer lab for students. Sam. wrote: [] I learned C and COBOL on a Wyse 60. er, in 1993. Well, my C class was on a Zenith 386, Quick C 2.0, and my COBOL class in 1986, was on a Dec VAX 11/730, along with VAX PASCAL. Via a DEC Vt-102 terminal. I'm delighted I've forgotten the Apple Fortran I learned on an Apple ][+ in 1984. THe community college had 12 Apple ][+s, with 64 Kilobytes of ram, green phosphor monitors, and 5.25 floppy drives, networked to a Corvus 20meg[?] hard drive, which is where the Fortran resided. JimP. -- jmpierce at medea.gp.usm.edu 'Scene contains 375 frame level objects; 5 infinite.' Pov-Ray 3.x ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-in.ConnActivity.com!core.transient.net!hamors From: "Sean B. Hamor" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:56:17 -0400 Organization: ConnActivity Internet Services Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <0000356ADDAC.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <6kk303$sco$1@thorn.cc.usm.edu> <3578cf4c.404216@158.152.254.65> NNTP-Posting-Host: core.transient.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: hamors@core.transient.net In-Reply-To: <3578cf4c.404216@158.152.254.65> On Sat, 30 May 1998, Sam. wrote: # > The university, where I'm posting from, used to have Wyse-60 # >terminals in the computer lab for students. # # I learned C and COBOL on a Wyse 60. er, in 1993. I still use Wyse-60 terminals on my Sun SPARCstation 1+ at home. =) /Sean/ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!feed.nntp.acc.ca!island.idirect.com!newsfeed.interlog.com!news.interlog.com!not-for-mail From: mwilson@interlog.com (Mel Wilson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: WebTV and You Date: 4 Jun 1998 12:11:29 -0400 Organization: Interlog Internet Services -Voice (416) 975-2655 -Data 515-1414 Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <6k7v8c$a0l$1@newsd-123.bryant.webtv.net> <896284688.8234.0.nnrp-03.9e9878e0@news.demon.co.uk> <6kkng9$v3l$1@holocron.odc.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell1.interlog.com NNTP-Posting-Time: 4 Jun 1998 16:11:31 GMT In article , nospam@bucket.bit () wrote: >(Though I guess a Linux box could be used with SLIP or PPP to keep >a proper command-line/character cell user interface...) We call this the BYO shell. Regards. Mel.