Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.207.0.26!nntp.giganews.com!nntp.primenet.com!uucp.primenet.com!flying!frisbie From: frisbie@flying-disk.spamblock.com (Alan Frisbie) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Message-ID: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> Date: 12 May 98 09:43:53 PDT Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 22 Yesterday, while visiting a client, they asked me to help them with a PC problem. It was the system controller for their time & material reporting system, and it appeared to be totally dead. The PC turned out to be an old IBM model 5100 PC, with two floppy disk drives, monochrome video, one serial port, and nothing more. Everything was covered with a thick layer of dust, including the floppy disks. The problem, a bad switch on the power supply, was easy to fix, but I was left with a question: Was this the original IBM PC, or a follow-on to the original? Also, how many of these old systems are still performing useful work? Alan -- -- "From:" line deliberatly munged to prevent harvesting by spambots. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie "AT" Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. ###### Message-ID: <3558A290.11BE1120@cns.co.uk> Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:27:12 +0100 From: Paul Grayson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.50.82.193 Lines: 12 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!peer.news.nildram.co.uk!news-sender.satin.net!backpost.satin.net!news.saqnet.co.uk!195.50.82.193 > > The problem, a bad switch on the power supply, was easy to > fix, but I was left with a question: Was this the original > IBM PC, or a follow-on to the original? Also, how many of > these old systems are still performing useful work? > Don't know about the UK - it was a while before the PC appeared over here. I was at a client site to perform a NOS upgrade a couple of months back and saw and original AT acting as an AS/400 gateway. Keyboard was faulty, took 5 minutes to type 2 commands to update it, but the machine still ran. ###### ws-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!scanner.worldgate.com!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!crash.videotron.ab.ca!news@videotron.ab.ca From: jsavard@tenMAPSONeerf.edmonton.ab.ca (John Savard) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:07:51 GMT Organization: Videotron Communications Ltd. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <3558d5a4.28787484@news.prosurfr.com> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: c9169-004.prosurfr.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 frisbie@flying-disk.spamblock.com (Alan Frisbie) wrote: >Yesterday, while visiting a client, they asked me to help them >with a PC problem. It was the system controller for their >time & material reporting system, and it appeared to be totally >dead. >The PC turned out to be an old IBM model 5100 PC, with two >floppy disk drives, monochrome video, one serial port, and >nothing more. Everything was covered with a thick layer >of dust, including the floppy disks. >The problem, a bad switch on the power supply, was easy to >fix, but I was left with a question: Was this the original >IBM PC, or a follow-on to the original? Also, how many of >these old systems are still performing useful work? It wouldn't have been a model 5100 - that was a predecessor of the PC that contributed the number (the PC was 5130 or something) but nothing more - it had built in BASIC and/or APL, and used a cartridge tape drive for storage. It probably was the original IBM PC - did it have *five* slots, more widely spaced than the seven slots of the later IBM XT? John Savard ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: stevenss@freenet.msp.mn.us (Scott Stevens) Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #0 Date: Wed, 13 May 98 00:14:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: usr-401-1-91.isd.net Message-ID: <3558e5c0.0@aedes.isd.net> Lines: 54 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!aedes.isd.net!ssteven1 In article <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com>, frisbie@flying-disk.spamblock.com (Alan Frisbie) wrote: >Yesterday, while visiting a client, they asked me to help them >with a PC problem. It was the system controller for their >time & material reporting system, and it appeared to be totally >dead. > >The PC turned out to be an old IBM model 5100 PC, with two >floppy disk drives, monochrome video, one serial port, and >nothing more. Everything was covered with a thick layer >of dust, including the floppy disks. > >The problem, a bad switch on the power supply, was easy to >fix, but I was left with a question: Was this the original >IBM PC, or a follow-on to the original? Also, how many of >these old systems are still performing useful work? > The machine you refer to couldn't have been a Model 5100. The IBM 5100 was a very old machine that came out a number of years before the IBM-PC. It had no diskette drives, instead using a quarter inch tape cartridge. It had a small built in video display, and could power up in either BASIC or APL language. The keyboard was attached and included a number of special APL-specific keys necessary to effectively use that language. The 5100 didn't use a microprocessor, but was instead made up out of "discrete" logic gates. I used a 5100 on several weekends in 1975 and 1976 when my father checked one out from work (he is a retired IBM employee, started out programming the 650) a few times. It was a truly great machine for that point in time, but nobody could ever afford to have one in the home. I remember playing a really great version of "Star Trek" on it, and that somebody had written a program that printed out the correct character pattern on the line printer so that the line printer would emit a snappy version of the "William Tell Overture" with the noises it made printing. The machine you refer to was probably an IBM 5150. The original version of the IBM-PC can be distinguished from the far more common versions by several distinctions. The "first edition" machines have the power supply inside painted black instead of the silver finish on all later models. The card brackets, both the blank ones to cover unused slots, and those on the original-equipment cards, are also painted black. The motherboard will have up to four banks of 16K DRAM chips on it (later models incorporated 64K and 256K chips). A machine with these characteristics is called a PC-1. Later five-slot (pre PC-XT) machines are called the PC-2. The PC-1 and PC-2 have five ISA slots, instead of the later 8 slots on the XT, but spaced in such a way that they take up the same space as the 8 slots on an XT. This meant that in the mid-80s when everybody was upgrading with clone motherboards, a 5-slot PC case could not take the XT-clone or AT-clone ('286) motherboard as an upgrade. (without tin snips, that is.... I forced an 8-slot Xt motherboard into a 5-slot "Leading Edge" case to produce the first IBM-compatible system I personally owned- never bought real IBM Iron through dad's employee discount...) There, more than you ever cared to know about the earliest IBM-PC systems. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.130.5!mtf1!newsadm From: l.lopez@worldnet.att.net (Max Froedge) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 13 May 1998 01:25:36 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 39 Message-ID: <6jasqg$m73@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.66.33.128 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (16bit) In article <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com>, frisbie@flying-disk.spamblock.com says... > >Yesterday, while visiting a client, they asked me to help them >with a PC problem. It was the system controller for their >time & material reporting system, and it appeared to be totally >dead. > >The PC turned out to be an old IBM model 5100 PC, with two >floppy disk drives, monochrome video, one serial port, and >nothing more. Everything was covered with a thick layer >of dust, including the floppy disks. > >The problem, a bad switch on the power supply, was easy to >fix, but I was left with a question: Was this the original >IBM PC, or a follow-on to the original? Also, how many of >these old systems are still performing useful work? > In addition to the 5 slots instead of 8, IBM PCs also had a cassette where the IBM PC XT did not. I did have a working PC system, but it disappeared out of my unlocked storage shed... Someone had to be hard up. Surprised me that it had the serial port. Most only had a parralled port. Max >Alan > >-- >-- "From:" line deliberatly munged to prevent harvesting by spambots. > >-- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie "AT" Flying-Disk.Com >-- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!news.idt.net!ais.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 13 May 1998 13:19:54 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 21 Message-ID: <6jc6lq$kmi@top.mitre.org> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <6jasqg$m73@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org l.lopez@worldnet.att.net (Max Froedge) writes: >In addition to the 5 slots instead of 8, IBM PCs also had a >cassette where the IBM PC XT did not. Um...no. IBM never (to my knowledge at least) marketed a cassette; what the original PC *did* have was a cassette *port*, a DIN connector that could be used to attach a (user-provided) cassette tape recorder. The system board included logic (via INT 0x15) to transfer data to and from the deck (via an onboard audio interface) as well as turn the deck's motor on and off (via a relat that provided dry contacts on the DIN plug). The best use of the interface that I found had nothing to do with using a cassette tape: a BASICA program that was distributed many years ago built a graphic image of a Christmas scene, complete with a grandfather clock with a swinging pendulum. The program triggered the cassette motor relay in time with the swinging pendulum, providing a "tick-tock" sound. Joe Morris ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!newsfeed.ed.ac.uk!news From: alexios@tramp.dai.ed.ac.uk (Alexios Chouchoulas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 13 May 1998 18:53:39 GMT Organization: Edinburgh University Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6jcq7j$i22@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <3558d5a4.28787484@news.prosurfr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tramp.dai.ed.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 In article <3558d5a4.28787484@news.prosurfr.com>, jsavard@tenMAPSONeerf.edmonton.ab.ca (John Savard) writes: [snippage] > It wouldn't have been a model 5100 - that was a predecessor of the PC > that contributed the number (the PC was 5130 or something) but nothing > more - it had built in BASIC and/or APL, and used a cartridge tape > drive for storage. The PC was 5150. Mind you, reading about a 5100 still in service and doing real work would be a lot more surprising than just another 5150 (yawn). :-) I own a couple of functional, original 5150s (a friend of mine owns another three -- we rescued seven of them and cannibalised two to fix the rest). His father uses a 5150 with a 9600 bps modem as a second terminal. I suspect its CGA has gone a bit loose inside the case, but otherwise it runs fine. No suprises here. Stupid design, good quality. Alexios -- o88 o888o o888o -------------------------------------------------------------- 88o8' `88' `88 Alexios Chouchoulas alexios@dai.ed.ac.uk 88' ,88' ,88' (aka The Unpronounceable One) University of Edinburgh o8888888888888888 "Eimai mia micri soupiera" AI department ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!server1.netnews.ja.net!newsfeed.ed.ac.uk!news From: alexios@tramp.dai.ed.ac.uk (Alexios Chouchoulas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 13 May 1998 19:00:10 GMT Organization: Edinburgh University Lines: 39 Message-ID: <6jcqjq$i22@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <6jasqg$m73@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tramp.dai.ed.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 In article <6jasqg$m73@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, l.lopez@worldnet.att.net (Max Froedge) writes: [...] > In addition to the 5 slots instead of 8, IBM PCs also had a > cassette where the IBM PC XT did not. IIRC, it also had a less powerful PSU. > I did have a working PC system, but it disappeared out of my > unlocked storage shed... Someone had to be hard up. Not to mention strong. You just don't inconspicuously sneak away with a 5150 hidden under your coat. Not too much loss, though. One of my own 5150s is effectively dead (nothing a soldering iron, half an hour and a new monitor couldn't fix) but I'm not worried about it. Losing other hardware would be worse, of course (the Rainbow 100, say -- these are quite rare in Europe). > Surprised me that it had the serial port. Most only had a > parralled port. Hm, mine did as well, but it was part of a public lab somewhere so this makes sense. It even had 384k extra RAM on the board, plus a battery-backed clock. Alexios -- o88 o888o o888o -------------------------------------------------------------- 88o8' `88' `88 Alexios Chouchoulas alexios@dai.ed.ac.uk 88' ,88' ,88' (aka The Unpronounceable One) University of Edinburgh o8888888888888888 "Eimai mia micri soupiera" AI department ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!newsm.ibm.net!ibm.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!202.14.100.1!status.gen.nz!kcbbs!riplin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty From: riplin@kcbbs.gen.nz (Richard Plinston) Date: 13 May 98 19:40:39 GMT Message-ID: <3298132.70839.20998@kcbbs.gen.nz> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 17 In message <<1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com>> frisbie@flying-disk.spamblock.com writes: > > The problem, a bad switch on the power supply, was easy to > fix, but I was left with a question: Was this the original > IBM PC, or a follow-on to the original? Also, how many of > these old systems are still performing useful work? It is easy to tell a PC from an XT. If it has a cassette port on the back it is an original PC, XTs did not have them. (This is bound to find someone with a transitional machine somewhere). There should be an ink mark on the back of a PC that is either an A or B in a circle indicating the model. A models were limited to 256Kb by the motherboard, Models Bs could go to 640Kb with addin cards. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.130.5!mtf1!newsadm From: l.lopez@worldnet.att.net (Max Froedge) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 13 May 1998 22:14:12 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6jd5vk$o0p@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <6jasqg$m73@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> <6jc6lq$kmi@top.mitre.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.66.33.84 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (16bit) In article <6jc6lq$kmi@top.mitre.org>, jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org says... > >l.lopez@worldnet.att.net (Max Froedge) writes: > >>In addition to the 5 slots instead of 8, IBM PCs also had a >>cassette where the IBM PC XT did not. > >Um...no. IBM never (to my knowledge at least) marketed a cassette; what >the original PC *did* have was a cassette *port*, a DIN connector that >could be used to attach a (user-provided) cassette tape recorder. The >system board included logic (via INT 0x15) to transfer data to and from >the deck (via an onboard audio interface) as well as turn the deck's >motor on and off (via a relat that provided dry contacts on the DIN >plug). > I guess I forgot PORT..... Life. Max ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!europa.clark.net!204.127.161.3!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.130.5!mtf1!newsadm From: l.lopez@worldnet.att.net (Max Froedge) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 13 May 1998 22:18:19 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 55 Message-ID: <6jd67b$o0p@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <6jasqg$m73@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> <6jcqjq$i22@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.66.33.84 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (16bit) In article <6jcqjq$i22@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, alexios@tramp.dai.ed.ac.uk says... > >In article <6jasqg$m73@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, > l.lopez@worldnet.att.net (Max Froedge) writes: > >[...] >> I did have a working PC system, but it disappeared out of my >> unlocked storage shed... Someone had to be hard up. > > Not to mention strong. You just don't inconspicuously sneak away >with a 5150 hidden under your coat. > I suppose that is true. Of course I do live near a University so there is plenty of beer inspired strength. They did leave the BetaMax alone. Max > Not too much loss, though. One of my own 5150s is effectively dead >(nothing a soldering iron, half an hour and a new monitor couldn't >fix) but I'm not worried about it. Losing other hardware would be >worse, of course (the Rainbow 100, say -- these are quite rare in >Europe). > I keep the good stuff in the house, see http://www.geocities/capecanaveral/5517 > >> Surprised me that it had the serial port. Most only had a >> parralled port. > > Hm, mine did as well, but it was part of a public lab somewhere so >this makes sense. It even had 384k extra RAM on the board, plus a >battery-backed clock. > makes it almost usable. Max > >Alexios > >-- >o88 o888o o888o -------------------------------------------------------------- > 88o8' `88' `88 Alexios Chouchoulas alexios@dai.ed.ac.uk > 88' ,88' ,88' (aka The Unpronounceable One) University of Edinburgh >o8888888888888888 "Eimai mia micri soupiera" AI department ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!carnaval.risq.qc.ca!not-for-mail From: leguerrl@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Le Guerrier Louis-Luc) Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> Lines: 21 X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Message-ID: <%ap61.5790$av.14477773@carnaval.risq.qc.ca> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:31:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: brise.ere.umontreal.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:31:23 EDT Alexios Chouchoulas (alexios@tramp.dai.ed.ac.uk) wrote: : In article <6jasqg$m73@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, : l.lopez@worldnet.att.net (Max Froedge) writes: : : [...] : : > In addition to the 5 slots instead of 8, IBM PCs also had a : > cassette where the IBM PC XT did not. : : IIRC, it also had a less powerful PSU. : I once was given a PC 5150 to rescue. There was a hard disk which wasn't working. I just moved a jumper on the HD controller from pins 1-2 to 2-3 (or the other way around, I don't remember). When I turned it back on, the MB started to smoke in front of me, and I quickly turned it back off to put the jumper where it was. Too late, the poor little MB was dead. I don't know if this accident had something to do with a bad power supply, or a conflict with the new jumper setup on the controller. Louis-Luc ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.130.5!mtf1!newsadm From: "Larry Geralds" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:05:12 -0400 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6jff9k$cdk@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <3558e5c0.0@aedes.isd.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.67.195.97 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Could it be a 5110? These had two 8'' floppy drives. I wrote code for one those beasts about 15 years ago. The thing was very heavy, had a huge footprint and the keyboard was part of the main case. It was impossible to get comfortable working on it. Nice to hear of one still working. Larry Scott Stevens wrote in message <3558e5c0.0@aedes.isd.net>... >The machine you refer to couldn't have been a Model 5100. >The IBM 5100 was a very old machine that came out a number of years before the >IBM-PC. It had no diskette drives, instead using a quarter inch tape >cartridge. It had a small built in video display, and could power up in >either BASIC or APL language. The keyboard was attached and included a number >of special APL-specific keys necessary to effectively use that language. The >5100 didn't use a microprocessor, but was instead made up out of "discrete" >logic gates. > ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!199.1.77.7!news.packet.net!jlower From: jlower@flnet.com (J. Lower) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 07:23:01 -0400 Organization: More all the time! Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <3558d5a4.28787484@news.prosurfr.com> <6jcq7j$i22@scotsman.ed.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: sarasota-dial-7.flnet.com X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.3.5 I have an IBM PC that's on very active duty - gets used several times a day in a somewhat unusual way. Check out http://www.flnet.com/~jlower/family/slyvester/catbox/xtbox.html | Jim Lower | See my Computer->Aquarium conversions at | | jlower@flnet.com | http://www.flnet.com/~jlower/ | ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.250.193.243!newsfeeder.triton.net!news2.triton.net!not-for-mail From: fernande@internet1.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 17 May 1998 21:06:28 GMT Organization: Triton Technologies, Inc Lines: 21 Message-ID: <6jnjgk$88o$1@news2.triton.net> References: <3298132.70839.20998@kcbbs.gen.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.250.31.172 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 On 1998-05-13 riplin@kcbbs.gen.nz(RichardPlinston) said: >There should be an ink mark on the back of a PC that is >either an A or B in a circle indicating the model. A models >were limited to 256Kb by the motherboard, Models Bs >could go to 640Kb with addin cards. My 5150 has a "B" in a circle. It has 256K on the MB and a card that extends it to 640K. I thought the original version, "A" I suppose, only had something like 16K, expandable to 64K? Chad A. Fernandez Battle Creek, MI Chad A. Fernandez Battle Creek, MI Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 18 May 1998 21:55:46 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 21 Message-ID: <90nzcq0t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> References: <3298132.70839.20998@kcbbs.gen.nz> <6jnjgk$88o$1@news2.triton.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 fernande@internet1.net wrote: > On 1998-05-13 riplin@kcbbs.gen.nz(RichardPlinston) said: > >There should be an ink mark on the back of a PC that is > >either an A or B in a circle indicating the model. A models > >were limited to 256Kb by the motherboard, Models Bs > >could go to 640Kb with addin cards. > > My 5150 has a "B" in a circle. It has 256K on the MB and a card that > extends it to 640K. I thought the original version, "A" I suppose, only had > something like 16K, expandable to 64K? AFAIK The "A" used 16k chips. On the motherboard there were 32 sockets -> max 64k on motherboard, together with RAM expansion cards that went up to 256k. The "B" used 64k chips -> max 256k on motherboard, up to 640k with expansion cards. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!psinntp!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.chips.ibm.com!mdnews.btv.ibm.com!rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com!ausnews.austin.ibm.com!not-for-mail From: glass2@glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 19 May 1998 12:52:55 GMT Organization: IBM Austin Lines: 32 Message-ID: <6jrvb7$2d1k$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> References: <3298132.70839.20998@kcbbs.gen.nz> <6jnjgk$88o$1@news2.triton.net> <90nzcq0t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> Reply-To: wa4qal@vnet.ibm.com NNTP-Posting-Host: glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 2.0 In <90nzcq0t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch>, Neil Franklin writes: >fernande@internet1.net wrote: >> On 1998-05-13 riplin@kcbbs.gen.nz(RichardPlinston) said: >> >There should be an ink mark on the back of a PC that is >> >either an A or B in a circle indicating the model. A models >> >were limited to 256Kb by the motherboard, Models Bs >> >could go to 640Kb with addin cards. >> >> My 5150 has a "B" in a circle. It has 256K on the MB and a card that >> extends it to 640K. I thought the original version, "A" I suppose, only had >> something like 16K, expandable to 64K? > >AFAIK The "A" used 16k chips. On the motherboard there were 32 sockets >-> max 64k on motherboard, together with RAM expansion cards that went >up to 256k. The "B" used 64k chips -> max 256k on motherboard, up to >640k with expansion cards. > > >-- >private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ >office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ >WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you Just a minor nit. I seem to remember that the IBM PC actually had space for 36 RAM chips since the PC used parity memory. There were four banks which were nine chips wide, for eight data bits and the parity bit in each bank. Dave P.S. Standard disclaimer: I work for them, but I don't speak for them. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsin.agis.net!agis!newsfeeder.triton.net!news2.triton.net!not-for-mail From: fernande@internet1.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 19 May 1998 18:05:31 GMT Organization: Triton Technologies, Inc Lines: 26 Message-ID: <6jshlb$6sj$1@news2.triton.net> References: <90nzcq0t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin28.internet1.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 On 1998-05-18 root@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch said: >AFAIK The "A" used 16k chips. On the motherboard there were 32 >sockets -> max 64k on motherboard, together with RAM expansion >cards that went up to 256k. The "B" used 64k chips -> max 256k on >motherboard, up to 640k with expansion cards. >-- >private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil. >Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch. >ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you Ah..I see now. I just bought another one the other day. I was hoping it would turn out to be the earlier "A" model, but it is also a "B". I decided to go ahead and buy it because it had a green mono monitor and video card. It also has a different memory card than what I already had. I like the crispness of the green mono monitor in comparison to current CGA setup I have. Chad A. Fernandez Battle Creek, MI Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!fu-berlin.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!jnickelsen From: jnickelsen@acm.org (Juergen Nickelsen) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:19:14 +0200 Organization: Unlimited Surprise Systems, Berlin Lines: 14 Message-ID: <1d9901s.djuytdtfanq8N@n246-94.berlin.snafu.de> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: n246-94.berlin.snafu.de X-Newsreader: MacSOUP 2.3 Alan Frisbie wrote: > The PC turned out to be an old IBM model 5100 PC, [...] > Was this the original IBM PC, or a follow-on to the original? The IBM PC was labeled "IBM Personal Computer"[1], its follow-on was the "IBM Personal Computer XT", and then the "IBM Personal Computer AT". A friend of mine gave me a label of on "IBM 5170" some time ago, but I don't know what it's from. -- Juergen Nickelsen ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.26.210.166!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!carnaval.risq.qc.ca!not-for-mail From: leguerrl@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Le Guerrier Louis-Luc) Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <1d9901s.djuytdtfanq8N@n246-94.berlin.snafu.de> Lines: 8 X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:11:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: brise.ere.umontreal.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:11:26 EDT : A friend of mine gave me a label of on "IBM 5170" some time ago, but I : don't know what it's from. : The IBM 5170 is the original AT. I have seen one already. Louis-Luc : -- : Juergen Nickelsen ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!ix.netcom.com!howland.erols.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!p850ug1.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 20 May 1998 01:13:23 +0100 Organization: P850 User Group Message-ID: <6jt773$1g0@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <1d9901s.djuytdtfanq8N@n246-94.berlin.snafu.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 895702717 nnrp-04:4483 NO-IDENT p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 40 Juergen Nickelsen (jnickelsen@acm.org) wrote: : Alan Frisbie wrote: : > The PC turned out to be an old IBM model 5100 PC, : [...] : > Was this the original IBM PC, or a follow-on to the original? : The IBM PC was labeled "IBM Personal Computer"[1], its follow-on was the : "IBM Personal Computer XT", and then the "IBM Personal Computer AT". : A friend of mine gave me a label of on "IBM 5170" some time ago, but I : don't know what it's from. Time for this table again : 5150 IBM PC 5151 MDA monitor 5152 Graphics printer (Epson MX80?) 5153 CGA monitor 5154 EGA monitor 5155 Portable PC ('sewing machine' case) 5160 IBM PC/XT 5161 IBM Expanison Cabinet for PC and XT 5170 IBM PC/AT BTW I have most of the above still in use. Not got a PC actually doing anything useful here at the moment, but there's an XT (stuffed with cards and then some..) which runs my EPROM programmer, GAL programmer, cable tester, etc. And this machine is a much-hacked PC/AT, with the original type 2 motherboard with a 486 kludge-board in place of the 80286 CPU. I've also got a 5155 which runs one of my test boxes. : -- : Juergen Nickelsen -tony ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 20 May 1998 20:33:34 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <3298132.70839.20998@kcbbs.gen.nz> <6jnjgk$88o$1@news2.triton.net> <90nzcq0t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> <6jrvb7$2d1k$1@ausnews.austin.ibm.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 glass2@glass2.cv.lexington.ibm.com corrected me: > In <90nzcq0t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch>, Neil Franklin writes: > >AFAIK The "A" used 16k chips. On the motherboard there were 32 sockets > >-> max 64k on motherboard, together with RAM expansion cards that went > >up to 256k. The "B" used 64k chips -> max 256k on motherboard, up to > >640k with expansion cards. > > Just a minor nit. I seem to remember that the IBM PC actually had space > for 36 RAM chips since the PC used parity memory. There were four banks > which were nine chips wide, for eight data bits and the parity bit in > each bank. Ermmmm. You got me there. All IBM PCs in the 1980s had parity, so that makes 9 chips per memory bank. And I should have know that, even this Taiwan486 I am writing on here still has parity. Actually it becomes more interesting: I have just got out an picture of the original PC prototype board (Byte Sep 1990, page 416). On that there is only 2 banks of 9 chips, but these are 32k chips (actually they are MK4332s, these have each 2 16k dies in one ceramic casing). -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!193.174.75.126!news-was.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!uucp.muenster.de!news.citykom.de!not-for-mail From: Johann Pelz Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 04:02:04 +0200 Organization: Citykom Muenster GmbH Lines: 62 Message-ID: <3564DC9C.719D3486@muenster.de> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <1d9901s.djuytdtfanq8N@n246-94.berlin.snafu.de> <6jt773$1g0@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: momox-ppp-a15.muenster.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Server-Date: 22 May 1998 02:01:58 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i486) Tony Duell wrote: > Time for this table again : > > 5150 IBM PC > 5151 MDA monitor > 5152 Graphics printer (Epson MX80?) > 5153 CGA monitor > 5154 EGA monitor > 5155 Portable PC ('sewing machine' case) > > 5160 IBM PC/XT > 5161 IBM Expanison Cabinet for PC and XT > [...] Dear Tony, You missed this one: 5162 IBM Personal Computer XT Model 286 IBM Canada even keeps drivers and manuals / specifications online; http://www.ibm.com search for [modelnumber] [name]. This one has 640K on board,i80286, FDD and HDD controllers etc. on ISA cards; comes with 360K DS/DD 5.25" floppy and a full height 5,25" HDD whith (I think) 10MB or 20MB. I found one of these some weeks ago in bad condition in the trash in front of my place (near campus). It was distracted into pieces, several I/O cards, and the controllers lay on another pile nearby; i found there as well a funny broken PC/AT keyboard whith strange symbols and letters drawn whith feltpen on the keys... Probably some foreign student used it until a newer PC was affordable; sadly, though, the video card is missing and i donīt know where to get an adequate Hercules card[1] w./ green, white, or amber monitor. Everything else seems to be all right; maybe i can use this one as a nice terminal on my 486 Linux box. What kind of keyboard can i use with this machine? If it isnīt in working condition anymore: iīm wondering whether i could fit a more recent motherboard into itīs case... Now that would be a nice case for a server!? Any suggestions? [1] i like these monochrome Hercules Graphics much more than EGA or CGA though they are not what was in there when this was manufactured... -- Johann Pelz pelz@uni-muenster.de ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!worldfeed.gte.net!news.gte.net!not-for-mail From: "Mark Harrison" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:12:01 +0800 Organization: gte.net Lines: 16 Message-ID: <6k2ts1$957$1@gte1.gte.net> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <3558d5a4.28787484@news.prosurfr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.99.60.247 X-Auth: DB0AC01C12C3849915978491 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 John Savard wrote in message <3558d5a4.28787484@news.prosurfr.com>... >It probably was the original IBM PC - did it have *five* slots, more >widely spaced than the seven slots of the later IBM XT? And don't forget to look on the back, for the cassette tape interface... Mark. markh@usai.asiainfo.com Mark Harrison at AsiaInfo Computer Networks, Beijing, China ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.26.210.166!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!carnaval.risq.qc.ca!not-for-mail From: leguerrl@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Le Guerrier Louis-Luc) Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <1d9901s.djuytdtfanq8N@n246-94.berlin.snafu.de> <6jt773$1g0@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> <3564DC9C.719D3486@muenster.de> Lines: 79 X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0] Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:25:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: brise.ere.umontreal.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:25:08 EDT Johann Pelz (pelz@muenster.de) wrote: : Tony Duell wrote: : : > Time for this table again : : > : > 5150 IBM PC : > 5151 MDA monitor : > 5152 Graphics printer (Epson MX80?) : > 5153 CGA monitor : > 5154 EGA monitor : > 5155 Portable PC ('sewing machine' case) : > : > 5160 IBM PC/XT : > 5161 IBM Expanison Cabinet for PC and XT : > [...] : : Dear Tony, : You missed this one: : : 5162 IBM Personal Computer XT Model 286 : : IBM Canada even keeps drivers and manuals / specifications online; : http://www.ibm.com search for [modelnumber] [name]. : : This one has 640K on board,i80286, FDD and HDD controllers etc. on : ISA cards; comes with 360K DS/DD 5.25" floppy and a full height 5,25" : HDD : whith (I think) 10MB or 20MB. : : I found one of these some weeks ago in bad condition in the trash in : front of my place : (near campus). It was distracted into pieces, several I/O cards, and the : controllers : lay on another pile nearby; i found there as well a funny broken PC/AT : keyboard whith : strange symbols and letters drawn whith feltpen on the keys... Probably : some foreign : student used it until a newer PC was affordable; sadly, though, the : video card is : missing and i donīt know where to get an adequate Hercules card[1] w./ : green, white, : or amber monitor. : Good job, pal! Try to find a used PC store to find a 8-bit VGA card. I use such a card in my XT because I don't want to bother with mono adapter. You can then use it with any VGA/SVGA monitor and play virtually any game in COLOR! Like on a 386! : Everything else seems to be all right; maybe i can use this one as a : nice terminal : on my 486 Linux box. : : What kind of keyboard can i use with this machine? : Try to find a keyboard with XT switch (101 key will do). I use the same keyboard with my XT and my 386 and there's no switch: it should be compatible with both... : If it isnīt in working condition anymore: iīm wondering whether i could : fit a more : recent motherboard into itīs case... : Now that would be a nice case for a server!? : : Any suggestions? : : [1] i like these monochrome Hercules Graphics much more than EGA or CGA : though they are : not what was in there when this was manufactured... : Oh, sorry I didn't see your sentence before writing above. Hercules should also do then, but you need a monochrome monitor. Used store may have them. Good luck Louis-Luc : -- : Johann Pelz : pelz@uni-muenster.de ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!p850ug1.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Original(?) IBM PC still on active duty Date: 22 May 1998 22:42:17 +0100 Organization: P850 User Group Message-ID: <6k4rfp$116@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> References: <1998May12.094354.1292@flying-disk.spamblock.com> <1d9901s.djuytdtfanq8N@n246-94.berlin.snafu.de> <6jt773$1g0@p850ug1.demon.co.uk> <3564DC9C.719D3486@muenster.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 895876408 nnrp-08:28318 NO-IDENT p850ug1.demon.co.uk:158.152.97.199 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 99 Johann Pelz (pelz@muenster.de) wrote: : Tony Duell wrote: : > Time for this table again : : > : > 5150 IBM PC : > 5151 MDA monitor : > 5152 Graphics printer (Epson MX80?) : > 5153 CGA monitor : > 5154 EGA monitor : > 5155 Portable PC ('sewing machine' case) : > : > 5160 IBM PC/XT : > 5161 IBM Expanison Cabinet for PC and XT : > [...] : Dear Tony, : You missed this one: : 5162 IBM Personal Computer XT Model 286 Ooops.. So I did... And I happen to have a couple. : IBM Canada even keeps drivers and manuals / specifications online; : http://www.ibm.com search for [modelnumber] [name]. : This one has 640K on board,i80286, FDD and HDD controllers etc. on : ISA cards; comes with 360K DS/DD 5.25" floppy and a full height 5,25" : HDD : whith (I think) 10MB or 20MB. From what I can remember (and I'll dig out the machine and (tech) manuals if necessary), it's almost an electrical clone of the PC/AT motherboard fitted into an XT case. The memory is 640K on the motherboard - 128K in DIP-packed chips (4 off 64K*4, 2 off 64K*1 for the parity bits) and a couple of 256K*9bit SIMMs. It takes the standard _late version_ hard/floppy disk controller - the old one is too tall to fit in the case. And a standard video card like a PC/AT - there's a single switch on the motherboard to select mono or colour (CGA) video cards. I can't remember how you set it for a card with its own BIOS (like an EGA or VGA card), but it's not hard to try it both ways. : I found one of these some weeks ago in bad condition in the trash in : front of my place : (near campus). It was distracted into pieces, several I/O cards, and the : controllers : lay on another pile nearby; i found there as well a funny broken PC/AT : keyboard whith : strange symbols and letters drawn whith feltpen on the keys... Probably : some foreign : student used it until a newer PC was affordable; sadly, though, the : video card is : missing and i donīt know where to get an adequate Hercules card[1] w./ : green, white, : or amber monitor. You can use just about any ISA video card in this machine. I've got an EGA card working in one of mine. Hercules cards sell for \pounds 1.00 at radio rallies (hamfests) in the UK - and they quite often turn up. : Everything else seems to be all right; maybe i can use this one as a : nice terminal : on my 486 Linux box. : What kind of keyboard can i use with this machine? The original one was the 83/84 key PC/AT keyboard, I think. There is an 8042 keyboard controller on the motherboard, and I'm pretty sure it's the standard AT one. So a normal PC/AT keyboard should work : If it isnīt in working condition anymore: iīm wondering whether i could : fit a more : recent motherboard into itīs case... : Now that would be a nice case for a server!? On the grounds I repair all my PC's in the traditional manner, using a logic analyser and a soldering iron, I've never replaced a motherboard. But it should work. : Any suggestions? : [1] i like these monochrome Hercules Graphics much more than EGA or CGA : though they are : not what was in there when this was manufactured... OK, right. Should work, I think (on the grounds that a hercules card works in a PC/AT - I'm using one right now). : -- : Johann Pelz : pelz@uni-muenster.de -tony