Message-ID: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 08:44:51 -0400 From: Jeffrey Fulmer Organization: White Oak Printing Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Clueless Microsofties Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7D0E01B43008AEE5CDEC5185" NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.7.247.98 Lines: 42 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.249.184.1!news.redrose.net!208.7.247.98 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7D0E01B43008AEE5CDEC5185 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's "complexity." As I read the posts and the gripes one thing is becoming quite apparent: They are attempting to install Linux on a partician on a machine that already has Winblows installed. I'm not saying this is impossible, I've set up that arrangement myself. But it *is* infinitely more difficult than simply setting up Linux alone. These same morons would run into the same problems setting up 95 and NT on the same machine. The only thing I'm getting from those posts is: "We hate Linux, we spent ten minutes trying to set it up and we found it too hard. My computer already has wind~1.nt installed." Fine. But don't bitch about it. I don't wanna hear it. Nobody else wants to hear it. We've already drawn our conclusion: YOU ARE CLUELESS. --------------7D0E01B43008AEE5CDEC5185 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Jeffrey Fulmer Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Jeffrey Fulmer n: Fulmer;Jeffrey org: White Oak Printing Co. adr: 1180 Dillerville Road;;;Lancaster;PA;17601;USA email;internet: jfulmer@whiteoaknet.com title: Systems Administrator tel;work: 717-291-2222 tel;fax: 717-291-5678 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------7D0E01B43008AEE5CDEC5185-- ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!sun4nl!NewsService!madeddie From: madeddie@ultra.multiweb.net () Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 6 May 1998 12:57:35 GMT Organization: Dutch News Service (http://www.news-service.com) Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> Reply-To: madeddie@nospam.multiweb.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.0.3 X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Cache-Post-Path: nntpcache.support.nl!unknown@ultra.multiweb.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.2.1 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) In article <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com>, Jeffrey Fulmer wrote: >I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's >"complexity." As I read the posts and the gripes one thing is becoming >quite apparent: They are attempting to install Linux on a partician on a >machine that already has Winblows installed. I'm not saying this is Well bravo! But while you say this, i keep on helping those poor bastards, dunno why though. But no reason not to i guess :) I do agree with you. Too many people coming in here, saying "I've heard linux is pretty good, so i bought a 100 dollar do it myself kit, but the thing won't go any further then telling me to read the book that came with it!! Where's the setup.exe?!" -- later mad like usual remove the nospam from my email address ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!globalcenter0!news.primenet.com!ja207030 From: Stephen Edwards Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 6 May 1998 14:12:00 -0700 Organization: Anamorphic 3-D Graphics Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <6iqjn0$m9f@nntp02.primenet.com> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35539e4a.8385497@news.netdirect.net> X-Posted-By: rakmount@206.165.6.207 (rakmount) Mayor Of R'lyeh wrote: : all by itself. The problem that I had when I first installed Linux was : that I didn't know that I needed to install LILO into the root : partition. The docs didn't bother to mention this either. There is a HOWTO on the subject, but it is all rather hairy and confusing. : >don't wanna hear it. Nobody else wants to hear it. We've already drawn : >our conclusion: YOU ARE CLUELESS. : And by engaging in this rant you are only reinforcing their : conclusions that all Linux advocates are complete asses with delusions : of grandeur. Perhaps if you just killfiled the obvious trolls and the It would seem that while most NT users are rather oblivious about OSen in general, Linux users (new ones) tend to be very rabid (almost as bad as Macintosh users) towards any questioning of their OS of choice. I'm thinking about leaving both camps for *BSD myself. At least BSD dicksizewars have a little bit of intelligence to them. -- Stephen S. Edwards II -- Support GNU... run UNIX... be happy. http://www.primenet.com/~rakmount -- r a k m o u n t @primenet.remove.com If you ever fall off the Sears Tower, just go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will try to catch you because, hey, free dummy. -- Jack Handey ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.217.77.43!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet From: Joseph Rounds Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 15:06:34 -0500 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Lines: 39 Message-ID: <3550C2CA.3E414858@earthlink.net> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.254.155.209 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) It is not diffcult by any means Jeffrey Fulmer wrote: > I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's > "complexity." As I read the posts and the gripes one thing is becoming > quite apparent: They are attempting to install Linux on a partician on a > machine that already has Winblows installed. I'm not saying this is > impossible, I've set up that arrangement myself. But it *is* infinitely > more difficult than simply setting up Linux alone. These same morons > would run into the same problems setting up 95 and NT on the same > machine. > The only thing I'm getting from those posts is: "We hate Linux, we spent > ten minutes trying to set it up and we found it too hard. My computer > already has wind~1.nt installed." Fine. But don't bitch about it. I > don't wanna hear it. Nobody else wants to hear it. We've already drawn > our conclusion: YOU ARE CLUELESS. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Jeffrey Fulmer > Systems Administrator > White Oak Printing Co. > > Jeffrey Fulmer > Systems Administrator > White Oak Printing Co. > 1180 Dillerville Road Work: 717-291-2222 > Lancaster Fax: 717-291-5678 > PA Netscape Conference Address > 17601 Netscape Conference DLS Server > USA > Additional Information: > Last Name Fulmer > First Name Jeffrey > Version 2.1 ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter.cosy.sbg.ac.at!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.mindspring.net!news.mindspring.com!nrcc-usa-allen From: mtnbkr@mindspring.com (Chris Allen) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 17:21:04 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 29 Message-ID: <6iq6c6$s5r$1@camel18.mindspring.com> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-207-205-219-183.pbgh.grid.net X-Server-Date: 6 May 1998 17:24:22 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 In article <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com>, Jeffrey Fulmer wrote: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >--------------7D0E01B43008AEE5CDEC5185 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's >"complexity." As I read the posts and the gripes one thing is becoming >quite apparent: They are attempting to install Linux on a partician on a >machine that already has Winblows installed. I'm not saying this is >impossible, I've set up that arrangement myself. But it *is* infinitely >more difficult than simply setting up Linux alone. These same morons >would run into the same problems setting up 95 and NT on the same >machine. >The only thing I'm getting from those posts is: "We hate Linux, we spent >ten minutes trying to set it up and we found it too hard. My computer >already has wind~1.nt installed." Fine. But don't bitch about it. I >don't wanna hear it. Nobody else wants to hear it. We've already drawn >our conclusion: YOU ARE CLUELESS. Yeah, because it's easier to attack someone because they are inexperienced. Being knowlegeable about systems in general is too hard, so you either pick one side or another. Personally, I'd rather spend my time educating myself and others (that's why I've setup 5 dual boot machines for myself and others-one is a laptop booting NT/Linux). Chris ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!204.120.164.3!news.netdirect.net!not-for-mail From: ev515o@hotxxxmail.com (Mayor Of R'lyeh) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Organization: City Of R'lyeh Message-ID: <35539e4a.8385497@news.netdirect.net> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 44 Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 17:36:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.248.213.62 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 12:36:25 EDT On Wed, 06 May 1998 08:44:51 -0400, Jeffrey Fulmer chose to bless us all with this bit of wisdom: >I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's >"complexity." As I read the posts and the gripes one thing is becoming >quite apparent: They are attempting to install Linux on a partician on a >machine that already has Winblows installed. I'm not saying this is >impossible, I've set up that arrangement myself. But it *is* infinitely >more difficult than simply setting up Linux alone. These same morons >would run into the same problems setting up 95 and NT on the same >machine. Not at all true. If you install NT last it will set up the dual boot all by itself. The problem that I had when I first installed Linux was that I didn't know that I needed to install LILO into the root partition. The docs didn't bother to mention this either. >The only thing I'm getting from those posts is: "We hate Linux, we spent >ten minutes trying to set it up and we found it too hard. My computer >already has wind~1.nt installed." Fine. But don't bitch about it. I >don't wanna hear it. Nobody else wants to hear it. We've already drawn >our conclusion: YOU ARE CLUELESS. And by engaging in this rant you are only reinforcing their conclusions that all Linux advocates are complete asses with delusions of grandeur. Perhaps if you just killfiled the obvious trolls and the lazy whiners you could get your blood pressure down and we could all be civil. We don't think Bill Clinton and Albert Gore ought to be the only people who live in public housing that get to send their children to private school. former RNC Chairman Haley Barbour ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.mindspring.net!news.mindspring.com!not-for-mail From: Matt Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 19:17:40 +0100 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 39 Message-ID: <3550A944.3D8F@spam.here> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37kb9it.dialup.mindspring.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 6 May 1998 23:18:05 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (WinNT; I) Jeffrey Fulmer wrote: > > I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's > "complexity." As I read the posts and the gripes one thing is becoming > quite apparent: They are attempting to install Linux on a partician on a > machine that already has Winblows installed. I'm not saying this is > impossible, I've set up that arrangement myself. But it *is* infinitely > more difficult than simply setting up Linux alone. These same morons > would run into the same problems setting up 95 and NT on the same > machine. > The only thing I'm getting from those posts is: "We hate Linux, we spent > ten minutes trying to set it up and we found it too hard. My computer > already has wind~1.nt installed." Fine. But don't bitch about it. I > don't wanna hear it. Nobody else wants to hear it. We've already drawn > our conclusion: YOU ARE CLUELESS. I sure hope you don't represent the Linux community with this opinion, although you use the term "we". I have posted regarding setting up Linux on an NT box, and don't consider myself to be clueless. I also don't hate Linux, otherwise I would not have installed it or be typing this reply. You should think about why there are so many posts regarding problems with Linux/Windows co-existing. I doubt people are bored and just want to slam Linux, I have a feeling many have spent hours attempting to get things working, but just got frustrated. Sure, there are the few idiots that get downright rude about it, but I'm talking about the average case here. My point: MAKE IT EASIER FOR US AND YOU WONT SEE THOSE KIND OF POSTS. SIMPLE. FYI- I can understand why some have the opinion that Linux/UNIX gurus tend to be very cocky and elitest in nature. Posts like yours do a great job in supporting that notion. -- -Matt mspauld at mindspring dot com ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail From: viro@riemann.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 6 May 1998 21:41:38 -0400 Organization: -ENOENT Lines: 76 Approved: Who cares? Message-ID: <6ir3gi$f0m@riemann.math.psu.edu> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35539e4a.8385497@news.netdirect.net> <6iqjn0$m9f@nntp02.primenet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: riemann.math.psu.edu In article <6iqjn0$m9f@nntp02.primenet.com>, Stephen Edwards wrote: [snip] >It would seem that while most NT users are rather oblivious about OSen in >general, Linux users (new ones) tend to be very rabid (almost as bad as >Macintosh users) towards any questioning of their OS of choice. AAARRRGH! The funny thing is that most rabid advocates are most clueless. All they are interested in is heavy-duty LART against M$. Which isn't bad idea, but WTFH Linux has with it? Who the hell needs to push Linux on every computer? Great, Linux got an exposure in press. Fine. And it also got a bunch of lusers. OK, some of them got a clue (remember this guy from AOL who pushed an idea of mailbombing Byte editor? Look at his April postings). But fscking lot didn't. Macintosh users? Heh. I suspect that many *.linux.advocacy rabid imbecils were in past *.os2.advocacy or *.mac.advocacy... right, rabid imbecils. Linux for them is 'the last hope of whites'[1], not an OS. > >I'm thinking about leaving both camps for *BSD myself. At least BSD >dicksizewars have a little bit of intelligence to them. Dunno. WTH do you need to be in _any_ camp? If system needs to be advocted - it's shitty system. Neither Linux nor *BSD need it. *.advocacy is what it is: common lavatory. ObLusers: I went out to smoke when BLLFH[2] caught me and began asking something. After several[3] minutes I figured out that he was speaking about g++. After several[3] more minutes I gave up the hope that he'll silently dissolve. OK, what's the problem? Oh, g++ is broken! After several[3] more minutes he confessed that his program doesn't work. He started to explain me what does he think about possible reasons (saying fscking nothing about his "program"). Sigh... OK, let's go and look at it . Naah. After SMM we went to machine[4]. OK, where's your program? ARRGH! He launched NetRape (instead of less, that is). OK, let's compile it. Bunch of warnings. vi BProgramFH.C. WHAT? Fsck, fsck, fsck. He passes the reference to local array into function and there tries to realloc it. Sure, compiler screams about taking reference to non-l-value. Next 30 minutes I spent explaining to BLLFH that arrays are not pointers. Explaining is pretty weak word - he just kept claiming that he read in K&R (who the fscking hell gave him the book?) about the equivalence between pointers and arrays. And fscking refused to listen. Sure, he knows better. OK, 30 minutes later I won this battle :-/ I described the difference in allocation. Explained _what_ K&R means by "equivalence". Showed the bastard how to do what he wants. Demonstrated him that it works. Well, in sum it took an hour. To say that I was pissed off is deep understatement. OK. I told him (_very_ politely) that a) now his program works[5]; b) warnings and FM are there for purpose; c) ... and please, please, don't use the constructions that you don't understand! Guess what was the reaction. "Heh. Smart Alec![6]" AAAAAAAAAAARGH! First thought: and I don't have root here[7]. Second thought: I don't fscking need it! (Luser has my directory in front if his PATH). Hell, if you treat the system as black magic - don't mess with people who know how to use it, or you'll experience an equivalent of transformation into toad, fsck your soul! [1] Bullshit idiom circa 1900. Hint: boxing. And racism, indeed. [2] LL==Local Luser [3] For goddamned big values of "several" [4] Solaris box [5] For extremely small values of work [6] Actually, Russian equivalent[8] [7] Recovered[9] since last August [8] He's from Russia. Me too :-/ [9] Yeah, sure... Al -- My theory is that someone's Emacs crashed on a very early version of Linux while reading alt.flame and the resulting unholy combination of Elisp and Minix code somehow managed to bootstrap itself and take on an independent existence. -- James Raynard in c.u.b.f.m on nature of Albert Cahalan ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ais.net!nntp.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: afcasta@texas.net (Al Castanoli) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35539e4a.8385497@news.netdirect.net> <6iqjn0$m9f@nntp02.primenet.com> Reply-To: Al Castanoli X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Lines: 32 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 22:38:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.127.6.190 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 17:38:43 CDT [newsgroups trimmed] On 6 May 1998 14:12:00 -0700, Stephen Edwards wrote: :It would seem that while most NT users are rather oblivious about OSen in :general, Linux users (new ones) tend to be very rabid (almost as bad as :Macintosh users) towards any questioning of their OS of choice. : :I'm thinking about leaving both camps for *BSD myself. At least BSD :dicksizewars have a little bit of intelligence to them. I've been running NetBSD on my old Mac LC550 for a few years now, and am continually running into Macfanatics calling me a sellout... weird thing that, since I was already a UNIX sysadmin when I bought the Mac. They don't have much to say about my machine's 68030 CPU not being supported by MacOS System 8, though. As for migrating from Linux to BSD, you could do worse... my NetBSD box usually beats my Linux box in uptime wars. I've been running several distributions of Linux the past few years, starting with the tamu release, and currently run S.u.S.E. Linux 5.2, but plan on replacing my toy computer soon with one of those newly cheap ultrasparcs. -- Al Castanoli Computers save time like kudzu prevents soil erosion. ~ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!nook.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: neil@nook.demon.co.uk (Neil Trotter) Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Followup-To: alt.dev.null Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 23:10:53 GMT Organization: Planet Nook Message-ID: <355ae6ab.1734443167@news.demon.co.uk> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <3550C2CA.3E414858@earthlink.net> Reply-To: neil@nook.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: nook.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: nook.demon.co.uk:158.152.154.97 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 894496255 nnrp-09:21432 NO-IDENT nook.demon.co.uk:158.152.154.97 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 In article <3550C2CA.3E414858@earthlink.net>, Joseph Rounds said: > It is not diffcult by any means Nor is trimming a. crap we have already read b. x-posted newsgroups Followups set (as indeed they ought earlier to have been). -- Neil. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.71.76.137!news.campus.mci.net!mwfunk From: mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 7 May 1998 05:58:25 GMT Organization: CampusMCI Lines: 127 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <3550A944.3D8F@spam.here> Reply-To: mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net NNTP-Posting-Host: s18-pm30.snaustel.campus.mci.net X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Matt wrote: > >I sure hope you don't represent the Linux community with this opinion, >although you use the term "we". To the degree that there is a Linux community these days, they are a wide and varied bunch. I don't know that any one viewpoint is really representative these days. I will say this much: I'm seeing more and more of a juvenile, rabid, and generally much younger faction that knows nothing of kernel hacking and a lot about blowing hot air on Usenet/IRC/etc. about how Linux rocks, everything else sucks, everyone else is a clueless weenie, etc. These are generally not the same people who Get Stuff Done (write kernel code, or any useful code for that matter), so I'd hesitate to call them "representative of the Linux community", even if they formed the majority of the Linux community (which they don't, at least not yet). I've also found that just about anytime someone uses the royal "we", and presumes to speak for the Linux community, they fall into this category. It's a surprisingly accurate litmus test for clues. Don't waste your time with them. I have a feeling that these sorts of attitudes are driving more and more Linux users to the *BSD's. Nicer and tighter community, just a bunch of laid-back, highly clued kernel hackers. >I have posted regarding setting up >Linux on an NT box, and don't consider myself to be clueless. To be fair here, no one considers themselves clueless. :) The only people I've heard describe themselves as clueless are total morons or utter geniuses. :) >You should think about why there are so many posts regarding problems >with Linux/Windows co-existing. Again to be fair, there aren't any problems with Linux and Windows coexisting. Linux will happily boot from any partition on any drive, won't overwrite your MBR, etc. Usually when I've seen questions about Linux/Windows coexistence, they fall into a few general categories: -partitioning -boot managers -Windows does nasty stuff None of this is specific to Linux, and the 3rd one (Win95 overwriting your MBR on installs, Win95 only wants to boot from the first partition on the first drive, etc.) is actually the fault of Windows. Linux coexists happily with just about anything, and in general is much more agreeable to its neighbours than Windows is. That being said, perhaps some of the major distributions might want to ship more documentation explaining these things, since many of the people who are installing Linux for the first time are perhaps installing a second OS for the first time, and might not understand about partitions and boot managers and Windows gotchas and so on. >MAKE IT EASIER FOR US AND YOU WONT SEE THOSE KIND OF POSTS. SIMPLE. Here you get into a sticky area, one that's unique to the free OS's. You sound like you're demanding something from somebody, but there's no one to demand anything from! Linux is definitely a "take it or leave it" kind of a deal. Maybe the distribution vendors could write more robust install programs, but that's about it. Installing an operating system is nontrivial, and setting up your machine to run multiple OS's is even more so. There's just no easy, foolproof way to go about it. Beyond the install itself, a lot of newbies complain about the difficulties they experience getting various pieces of hardware to work...their soundcard, their mouse, setting up XFree86 so it handles their graphics board better. Again, unfortunately, unlike Windows or other commercial OS's, the vendors don't provide the drivers. You end up using some rather generic drivers and hoping that your hardware doesn't have some odd little showstopping feature, in which case you've got to tweak the drivers yourself. This is an intrinsic problem and there's just not much that can be done about it. >FYI- I can understand why some have the opinion that Linux/UNIX gurus >tend to be very cocky and elitest in nature. Posts like yours do a >great job in supporting that notion. Don't listen to him, he's probably 19 years old and is excited to have something to be cocky about in the first place. :) Technology, a couple of clues, and arrogant teenagers can be a very annoying combination. :) Probably not much 'guru-ness' going on there, just a couple of clues and an inflated (online) ego. Most real Unix gurus are neither more nor less cocky than any other sort of guru; meaning, some can be arrogant as hell, some can be quite helpful, etc. The only reason you rarely see the "arrogant guru" mentality in the Windows world is because it's far less technically oriented, and there's just not all that much to be a guru about. Unix is by nature a different sort of OS than Windows, generally geared towards much more technically savvy end-users, and used for much more technically-oriented tasks. As such it's always going to be "harder" than Windows, even if there were user-friendly GUI front ends on everything. It can be argued that even so, it's much more baroque and complicated than it needs to be, but so be it. It's 25+ years old and has acquired a lot of barnacles over the years. All of that goes double, triple, quadruple for Linux or the *BSD's, by their own nature. The people who wrote them (and most of the people who use them) use them because of their hackability and source code availability. They're more concerned with making Linux more of a system that they, as hackers, would want to use, than they are with glitzing it up and making it more palatable to the masses. I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing, just describing the situation. A lot of people install Linux just because they want to play around with Unix, and see Linux as a nice, cheap way to do this. I suppose it is, but this isn't why Linux was created, and for the most part this perception doesn't guide current development. Even though Red Hat, et al are no doubt trying to sell it as an ultra cheap alternative to SCO or Solaris x86, Linux was not designed as a drop-in replacement for either of these. It was created as a hacker's platform, and to a certain degree always will be one, no matter how much folks like Red Hat and Caldera try to put a pretty face on it and sell it to the masses. I'm not trying to put a positive or negative spin on any of this, all I'm trying to do is objectively describe the Linux "situation", and hoping that frustrated newbies might see Linux as "different" rather than "too hard" or "bad". Mike ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.attap.net!mango.singnet.com.sg!dahlia.singnet.com.sg!ocean.singnet.com.sg!id4.nus.edu.sg!luakt-r2.iscs.nus.edu.sg!not-for-mail From: Colin Tan Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 7 May 1998 07:11:34 GMT Organization: National University of Singapore Lines: 12 Message-ID: <6irmr6$hou5@id4.nus.edu.sg> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: luakt-r2.iscs.nus.sg X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961115] : I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's Now now be nice... We're all clueless until we RTFM and get a clue, or until someone who's both clued and nice helps us out. As much as I might rabidly attack Microsoft and their products, I'd still help out a Windoze user install Linux.. after all, it's another one to our ranks right? ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ais.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.attap.net!mango.singnet.com.sg!dahlia.singnet.com.sg!ocean.singnet.com.sg!id4.nus.edu.sg!luakt-r2.iscs.nus.edu.sg!not-for-mail From: Colin Tan Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 7 May 1998 07:32:07 GMT Organization: National University of Singapore Lines: 23 Message-ID: <6iro1n$hou7@id4.nus.edu.sg> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <3550A944.3D8F@spam.here> NNTP-Posting-Host: luakt-r2.iscs.nus.sg X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961115] Michael Funk wrote: : A lot of people install Linux just because they want to play around : with Unix, and see Linux as a nice, cheap way to do this. I suppose Not always. For myself I just needed a nice reliable fast O/S that I can develop software on (read "reliable" as "doesn't crash more than once a day" - Something win95 can't seem to give me), and something that I can telnet to without having to hunt the web for a telnet daemon, and subsequently paying huge shareware fees to use it. I've been using Linux for 6 months now. I don't deny that Linux is a lot harder to set up and maintain than Win95 (particularly if you use Slackware), but it has given me everything I need (speed, reliability, free telnet daemon) so that's why I stick with it. My rabid rants about M$ products come more as a result of suffering one-too-many Win95 crashes, and getting really annoyed at M$ marketing practices, rather than an effort to advocate Linux. As someone pointed out earlier.. Linux does not need advocating. It's track record already speaks for itself. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!newsfeed.internetmci.com!202.14.100.1!status.gen.nz!clear.net.nz!auckland.ac.nz!p.kerr From: p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 7 May 1998 08:41:32 GMT Organization: School of Music University of Auckland Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p.kerr.mus.auckland.ac.nz X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.2.0b6 Jeffrey Fulmer wrote: > I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's > "complexity." As I read the posts and the gripes one thing is becoming > quite apparent: They are attempting to install Linux on a partician on a > machine that already has Winblows installed. I'm not saying this is > impossible, I've set up that arrangement myself. But it *is* infinitely > more difficult than simply setting up Linux alone. These same morons > would run into the same problems setting up 95 and NT on the same > machine. > The only thing I'm getting from those posts is: "We hate Linux, we spent > ten minutes trying to set it up and we found it too hard. My computer > already has wind~1.nt installed." Fine. But don't bitch about it. I > don't wanna hear it. Nobody else wants to hear it. We've already drawn > our conclusion: YOU ARE CLUELESS. Sorry you don't want to hear, but I'm a clueless mac dweeb. I spent 2 weeks trying to set up 5 different flavors of Linux on a box that already had MacOS on a separate HD. We needed, for reasons I won't bore you with, to have access to the same binary files to work on, sometimes with unix apps, sometimes with Mac apps. We got a system working in the end, only to find out that the unix apps didn't really do what had been claimed for them. In other words it wasn't worth the candle. That's OK, I don't mind being called a moron because I found it so difficult to configure a bastard system. What I do object to is the u**x blowhards who claim that the sun shines out of their system. When you ask them for an application to do real work on real data they give you a crumbling cardboard box full of mouldy source code. You take the bits home and wash them and dry them and iron them, and massage them into a fit state for your own system, then find that it cannot recognise data in an industry standard format, or that there is no driver for the most popular output device on the market. Still, that's they joy of u**x isn't it? Writing your own code. Beats me how they keep those white coats so clean, always up to their elbows in greasy gearboxes... -- Peter Kerr bodger School of Music chandler University of Auckland NZ neo-Luddite ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!unclebob From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Thu, 07 May 98 09:38:55 GMT Message-ID: <894533935snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35539e4a.8385497@news.netdirect.net> Reply-To: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Mail2News-User: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Mail2News-Path: post-10.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net!tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 894546140 16118 unclebob tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 Lines: 20 In article <35539e4a.8385497@news.netdirect.net> ev515o@hotxxxmail.com "Mayor Of R'lyeh" writes: > Not at all true. If you install NT last it will set up the dual boot ^^^ ^^ I think you misspelled **** up. If you already have 3.1 running in another partition then the only way I know of preventing it from installing its dual booting stuff in the 3.1 partition is to use the linux fdisk to change all the dos partitions to type 0x80, install NT, then change them back. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!rhawkins From: rhawkins@iastate.edu (Rick Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 7 May 1998 15:37:32 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa USA Lines: 16 Message-ID: <6iskfs$7q4$1@news.iastate.edu> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35539e4a.8385497@news.netdirect.net> <6iqjn0$m9f@nntp02.primenet.com> <6ir3gi$f0m@riemann.math.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pv2086.vincent.iastate.edu In article <6ir3gi$f0m@riemann.math.psu.edu>, Alexander Viro wrote: > > ObLusers: I went out to smoke when BLLFH[2] caught me and began >asking something. After several[3] minutes I figured out that he was >speaking about g++. After several[3] more minutes I gave up the hope that >he'll silently dissolve. [*snip*] See, they're right. Smoking is dangerous :) -- R E HAWKINS rhawkins@iastate.edu These opinions will not be those of ISU until they pay my retainer. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ais.net!news.megsinet.net!not-for-mail From: jsingle@NOSPAM.netwalk.com (Jim Singleton) Newsgroups: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 7 May 1998 16:55:27 GMT Lines: 22 Message-ID: <4uIVeSCKQyTz-pn2-HJ2GGr3T931t@max1-63.columbus.megsinet.net> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6irmr6$hou5@id4.nus.edu.sg> Reply-To: jsingle@NOSPAM.netwalk.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.81.172.191 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: ProNews/2 Version 1.00 On Thu, 7 May 1998 07:11:34, Colin Tan wrote: > : I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's > > Now now be nice... > > We're all clueless until we RTFM and get a clue, or until someone > who's both clued and nice helps us out. > > As much as I might rabidly attack Microsoft and their products, > I'd still help out a Windoze user install Linux.. after all, > it's another one to our ranks right? > > Have to agree with you, I wish I had a dollar for all of the 11:30 Pm phone calls I've anwsered. But it all worked out well in the end! Jim ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newshub.northeast.verio.net!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsfeed.sgi.net!news.sgi.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <35522F1F.2D1F@NO-SPAM.sgi.net> From: Adam Stouffer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 41 Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 21:52:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: dap-144-156.monroe.sgi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 17:52:41 EDT Peter Kerr wrote: > > Jeffrey Fulmer wrote: > > I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's > > "complexity." As I read the posts and the gripes one thing is becoming > > quite apparent: They are attempting to install Linux on a partician on a > > machine that already has Winblows installed. I'm not saying this is > > impossible, I've set up that arrangement myself. But it *is* infinitely > > more difficult than simply setting up Linux alone. These same morons > > would run into the same problems setting up 95 and NT on the same > > machine. > > The only thing I'm getting from those posts is: "We hate Linux, we spent > > ten minutes trying to set it up and we found it too hard. My computer > > already has wind~1.nt installed." Fine. But don't bitch about it. I > > don't wanna hear it. Nobody else wants to hear it. We've already drawn > > our conclusion: YOU ARE CLUELESS. > > Sorry you don't want to hear, but I'm a clueless mac dweeb. > I spent 2 weeks trying to set up 5 different flavors of Linux on a box > that already had MacOS on a separate HD. We needed, for reasons I won't > bore you with, to have access to the same binary files to work on, > sometimes with unix apps, sometimes with Mac apps. > Well who would run linux on a mac anyway? Just using macOS is bad enough. -- ----------------------------------------- | Public enemy #10 | | Remove the NO-SPAM | ----------------------------------------- ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-ber1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!gatech!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!not-for-mail From: cddukes@cc04du.unity.ncsu.edu (Christopher D Dukes) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 8 May 1998 02:51:15 GMT Organization: The Alfred Packer Memorial Dining Hall Lines: 15 Message-ID: <6itrv3$2ni$1@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35539e4a.8385497@news.netdirect.net> <6iqjn0$m9f@nntp02.primenet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cc03du.unity.ncsu.edu X-Html-LART:

12:00

 X-UCE-Policy-00: Unsolicited Commercial E-mail sent to this account will X-UCE-Policy-01: be billed a $1000 editing fee. The sending of UCE to X-UCE-Policy-02: this account will be considered acceptance of these X-UCE-Policy-03: terms. In article <6iqjn0$m9f@nntp02.primenet.com>, Stephen Edwards wrote: >I'm thinking about leaving both camps for *BSD myself. At least BSD >dicksizewars have a little bit of intelligence to them. I only have one thing to say to this. "The NetBSD spat that spawned OpenBSD." (Granted, I am quite pleased by some of the outcome so far). -- The following must be destroyed. Microsoft, Lyons Partnership. Balkanize USENET! Vote from the rooftops!! The best thing in RTP is now SMOG! Sending unsolicited commercial massmail to this account may result in a network outage for your site. Have a nice day. "Securing a Windows NT system -- Wire Cutters or Thermite?" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news.linkline.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.71.76.137!news.campus.mci.net!mwfunk From: mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 8 May 1998 04:08:37 GMT Organization: CampusMCI Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35539e4a.8385497@news.netdirect.net> <6iqjn0$m9f@nntp02.primenet.com> <6itrv3$2ni$1@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu> Reply-To: mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net NNTP-Posting-Host: s11-pm19.snaustel.campus.mci.net X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Christopher D Dukes wrote: >Stephen Edwards wrote: >>I'm thinking about leaving both camps for *BSD myself. At least BSD >>dicksizewars have a little bit of intelligence to them. > >I only have one thing to say to this. >"The NetBSD spat that spawned OpenBSD." What caused this? I've looked through web sites, mailing list archives, etc., and the closest thing to an explanation that I've found was, Theo De Raadt [sp?] was "cast out" of the NetBSD team over some disagreement, leading him to go off and start OpenBSD. Is this accurate, and can anyone tell me what the disagreement was between Theo and the other NetBSD people? Mike ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!207.172.3.49!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!news.mindspring.net!gatech!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!not-for-mail From: cddukes@cc04du.unity.ncsu.edu (Christopher D Dukes) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 8 May 1998 17:57:04 GMT Organization: The Alfred Packer Memorial Dining Hall Lines: 33 Message-ID: <6ivh1g$1lh$1@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6iqjn0$m9f@nntp02.primenet.com> <6itrv3$2ni$1@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cc05du.unity.ncsu.edu X-Html-LART:

12:00

 X-UCE-Policy-00: Unsolicited Commercial E-mail sent to this account will X-UCE-Policy-01: be billed a $1000 editing fee. The sending of UCE to X-UCE-Policy-02: this account will be considered acceptance of these X-UCE-Policy-03: terms. In article , Michael Funk wrote: >Christopher D Dukes wrote: >>Stephen Edwards wrote: >>>I'm thinking about leaving both camps for *BSD myself. At least BSD >>>dicksizewars have a little bit of intelligence to them. >> >>I only have one thing to say to this. >>"The NetBSD spat that spawned OpenBSD." > >What caused this? I've looked through web sites, mailing list archives, >etc., and the closest thing to an explanation that I've found was, Theo >De Raadt [sp?] was "cast out" of the NetBSD team over some disagreement, >leading him to go off and start OpenBSD. Is this accurate, and can >anyone tell me what the disagreement was between Theo and the other NetBSD >people? Theo keeps a transcript of the fiasco available via FTP somewhere or another. I read through it some months ago and I still can't make heads or tails of it. > > Mike > -- The following must be destroyed. Microsoft, Lyons Partnership. Balkanize USENET! Vote from the rooftops!! The best thing in RTP is now SMOG! Sending unsolicited commercial massmail to this account may result in a network outage for your site. Have a nice day. "Securing a Windows NT system -- Wire Cutters or Thermite?" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news1.ispnews.com!news11.ispnews.com!not-for-mail From: Sam Merritt Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 10 May 1998 13:50:53 GMT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Lines: 30 Message-ID: <6j4bbt$gh3$1@news13.ispnews.com> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6iqjn0$m9f@nntp02.primenet.com> <6itrv3$2ni$1@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu> <6ivh1g$1lh$1@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: feeding.frenzy.com X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970705; i386 FreeBSD 2.2.6-RELEASE] In alt.folklore.computers Christopher D Dukes wrote: > In article , > Michael Funk wrote: > >Christopher D Dukes wrote: > >>Stephen Edwards wrote: > >>>I'm thinking about leaving both camps for *BSD myself. At least BSD > >>>dicksizewars have a little bit of intelligence to them. > >> > >>I only have one thing to say to this. > >>"The NetBSD spat that spawned OpenBSD." > > > >What caused this? I've looked through web sites, mailing list archives, > >etc., and the closest thing to an explanation that I've found was, Theo > >De Raadt [sp?] was "cast out" of the NetBSD team over some disagreement, > >leading him to go off and start OpenBSD. Is this accurate, and can > >anyone tell me what the disagreement was between Theo and the other NetBSD > >people? > Theo keeps a transcript of the fiasco available via FTP somewhere or > another. > I read through it some months ago and I still can't make heads or tails > of it. http://www.theos.com/deraadt/coremail.html Its fun reading Sam ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!sibyl.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!howland.erols.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!sun4nl!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 04:03:34 GMT Organization: Dis Message-ID: <35697875.26798897@158.152.254.76> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <3550A944.3D8F@spam.here> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 894859415 nnrp-11:16755 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 On 7 May 1998 05:58:25 GMT, mwfunk@uncc.campus.mci.net (Michael Funk) wrote: >more of a juvenile, rabid, and generally much younger faction that >knows nothing of kernel hacking and a lot about blowing hot air on >Usenet/IRC/etc. about how Linux rocks, everything else sucks, everyone >else is a clueless weenie, etc. I had a great exchange of email with someone from some lame group or another flaming me for my choice of news reader. "Windoze sux get a real OS". I asked him how come he was using Microsoft Mail to write to me and he explained how he was such an elite sup3r hax0r he'd decompiled it back to source code, patched it, and was running a Linux version of MS Mail that only he had. Then he said his friend had done it really, and I wouldn't understand, because it was technical. Ha! Well done, Linux flamers! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "When I said 'hello' just now, it sounded exactly like Jason. Which isn't surprising. Because I'm him!" - Jason, Havakazoo XXsam@greenaum.demon.co.ukXX http://www.greenaum.demon.co.uk/ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.clark.net!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!wtn-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!utk.edu!not-for-mail From: Victor Eijkhout Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 11 May 1998 16:39:06 -0400 Organization: University of Tennessee Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: prancer.cs.utk.edu X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Jeffrey Fulmer writes: > I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's > "complexity." ... after which they turn around and criticise the Mac because you "cannot get at its guts" :-) -- Victor Eijkhout ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail From: nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 11 May 1998 16:56:00 -0700 Organization: PrImE NuT (602)864-1005 <--- <--- <--- Lines: 21 Message-ID: <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> X-Posted-By: nickb@206.165.6.203 (nickb) X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test58 (13 May 97) In article , Victor Eijkhout wrote: >Jeffrey Fulmer writes: > >> I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's >> "complexity." > >... after which they turn around and criticise the Mac because >you "cannot get at its guts" :-) You know, the Commodore 64 was simple, and you could get at its guts. Like I said, we need to give our computers a BASIC interface again. Today, you can't program your computer without faking it in HTML, buying some $200 package from MS, or hunting down the DOS 5 version of QBASIC in your Win95 CD. None of which is very publicized. -- Nick Bensema 98-KUPD Red Card #710563 UIN: 2135445 ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:45:22 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 20 Message-ID: <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <3550A944.3D8F@spam.here> <35697875.26798897@158.152.254.76> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i486) Sam. wrote: > > real OS". I asked him how come he was using Microsoft Mail to write to > me and he explained how he was such an elite sup3r hax0r he'd > decompiled it back to source code, patched it, and was running a Linux > version of MS Mail that only he had. Then he said his friend had done OK. Time for a bit of folklore, or at least an story. A colleague of mine used on his Linux system the "fake browser ID" function of junkbuster (www.junkbuster.com) to proclaim that he was using "IE 3.0 for Linux". Then he forgot about it and a few days later surfed by www.microsoft.com. A few days after this he got an irate e-mail: "where did you get that from????". Seems they process their browser ID log files. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Lawyers are killing society, perhaps we should return the favour. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.idt.net!WCG!news.randori.com!not-for-mail From: jeff@spam.chews.riva.com (Jeff A. Harrell) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> Organization: RIVA Technologies X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.3.5 Lines: 9 Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:51:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: rivagate.riva.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:51:44 PDT In article <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com>, nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) wrote: > Today, you can't program your computer without faking it in HTML, > buying some $200 package from MS, or hunting down the DOS 5 version > of QBASIC in your Win95 CD. None of which is very publicized. Thank god for Perl. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!24.128.1.125!chnws03.mediaone.net!24.131.1.12!denws01.mw.mediaone.net!news.gmi.edu!nova.kettering.edu!lee1089 From: Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 08:46:27 -0400 Organization: Kettering University (formerly GMI E&MI) - Flint MI Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nova.kettering.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In-Reply-To: On Tue, 12 May 1998, Jeff A. Harrell wrote: > In article <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com>, nickb@primenet.com (Nick S > Bensema) wrote: > > > Today, you can't program your computer without faking it in HTML, > > buying some $200 package from MS, or hunting down the DOS 5 version > > of QBASIC in your Win95 CD. None of which is very publicized. > > Thank god for Perl. I don't know about PC's but you can always download MPW from Apple for free. (C, C++, Pascal, and assembly (PPC and 68k)) Oh, yeah all unixes come with compilers and such. Gee, I guess *all*that*software* we keep hearing about is just so much vaporware. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.idt.net!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk (Robert Billing) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Tue, 12 May 98 09:01:56 GMT Message-ID: <894963716snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <3550A944.3D8F@spam.here> <35697875.26798897@158.152.254.76> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> Reply-To: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 894968548 mail2news:6952 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-12.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net![158.152.132.30] X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 Lines: 19 In article <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove "Neil Franklin" writes: > surfed by www.microsoft.com. A few days after this he got an irate > e-mail: "where did you get that from????". Seems they process their > browser ID log files. Oh lovely! I must set something similar up and the email them with a one word reply: Guess -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!korova.insync.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!iafrica.com!news.global.co.za!tcomps From: lusers@lusers.org (shecat and bain) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:52:00 GMT Organization: Lusers Lines: 16 Message-ID: <6janl4$b9k$1@news.global.co.za> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: syn22.pri1.ctya.gia.net.za X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 >We got a system working in the end, only to find out that the unix apps >didn't really do what had been claimed for them. In other words it wasn't >worth the candle. That's OK, I don't mind being called a moron because I >found it so difficult to configure a bastard system. > exactly what did you need to do .. and what software did you install to do it ??? Since I setup a box to do the same thing ... accessing MAC stuff of network blah blah blah ... maybe I can shed light on your problem bain ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uow.edu.au!metro!unsw.edu.au!khchung From: khchung@maths.unsw.EDU.AU (Kin Hoong CHUNG) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Followup-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Date: 13 May 1998 03:45:10 GMT Organization: University of New South Wales Lines: 35 Message-ID: <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: alpha.maths.unsw.edu.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Nick S Bensema (nickb@primenet.com) wrote: : In article , : Victor Eijkhout wrote: : >Jeffrey Fulmer writes: : > : >> I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's : >> "complexity." : > : >... after which they turn around and criticise the Mac because : >you "cannot get at its guts" :-) : You know, the Commodore 64 was simple, and you could get at its guts. Not to everybody... it was a CLI so _some_ people still had trouble figuring out how to load files, execute programs and generally do useful things with the machine. Even with the appliance-like Mac GUI, there are still people who fail to work out how to use it. As far as this complexity thing is concerned, it is mostly one of whether one is willing/able* to learn how to use the hardware/software compared to the amount of functionality one wants to get out of the hardware/software. Mr Eijkhout's point is, I think, that some of these microsofties are even more one-eyed than some of the more fanatical Amiga users (yes, there _will_ be a new Amiga, RSN!). Cheers, Kin Hoong *Not everybody is capable of everything, and this is not usually a good criterion in judging their competency, except in the use of that particular thing. There are some exceptions, but I doubt that computers are one of the exceptions. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!jobone!dailyplanet.srl.ford.com!eccws1.dearborn.ford.com!longhorn!tph From: tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Followup-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Date: 13 May 1998 16:34:57 GMT Organization: Mechanist Industries Lines: 18 Message-ID: <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <3550A944.3D8F@spam.here> <35697875.26798897@158.152.254.76> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> Reply-To: tph@rmi.net NNTP-Posting-Host: cs0053.eld.ford.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Neil Franklin (Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove) wrote: : A colleague of mine used on his Linux system the "fake browser ID" : function of junkbuster (www.junkbuster.com) to proclaim that he was : using "IE 3.0 for Linux". Then he forgot about it and a few days later : surfed by www.microsoft.com. A few days after this he got an irate : e-mail: "where did you get that from????". Seems they process their : browser ID log files. That's interesting to hear. I'm going to have to try this out. It's pretty easy to fake this sort of thing on a Mac. Maybe "IE 4.0 for MkLinux" will get their attention. :-) -- Tom Harrington --------- tph@rmii.com -------- http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph "religious mania is said to be the prevailing form of insanity in the United States." -Henry Coswell Cookie's Revenge: ftp://ftp.rmi.net/pub2/tph/cookie/cookies-revenge.sit.hqx ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!newsstand.tc.umn.edu!krueger From: krueger@cs.umn.edu (Alan Krueger) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 13 May 1998 19:39:15 GMT Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Minnesota Lines: 15 Message-ID: <6jcst3$109@epx.cis.umn.edu> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35697875.26798897@158.152.254.76> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> NNTP-Posting-Host: seneca.cs.umn.edu Neil Franklin (Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove) wrote: > A colleague of mine used on his Linux system the "fake browser ID" > function of junkbuster (www.junkbuster.com) to proclaim that he was > using "IE 3.0 for Linux". Then he forgot about it and a few days later > surfed by www.microsoft.com. A few days after this he got an irate > e-mail: "where did you get that from????". Seems they process their > browser ID log files. Out of curiosity, how did they get his email address? -- W. Alan Krueger |--------- http://bounce.to/alan-krueger --------------- Software Engineer | "Even I have to ask - when was the last time EXi Corporation | you received a moral, ethical OR legal spam?" www.exicorp.com | - Sanford Wallace, formerly of CyberPromotions ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail From: lisard@zetnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 13 May 1998 21:18:27 GMT Message-ID: <6jd2n3$cvi$5@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <6jd0rv$9sg$1@wombat.cs.monash.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-083.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.08X Lines: 12 On 1998-05-14 bmeyer@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au said: [re. Memotech MTX500] :Oh, those were the days.... whaddayamean, *were*??? (btw, if someone has a disk interface for an MTX...?) -- Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her... ###### Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!masternews.telia.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!ejohnson From: ejohnson@netcom.com (Eric Johnson) Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Message-ID: Organization: Netcom On-Line Services X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 CURRENT #9 References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <3550A944.3D8F@spam.here> <35697875.26798897@158.152.254.76> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 21:27:53 GMT Lines: 20 Sender: ejohnson@netcom12.netcom.com tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) writes: >Neil Franklin (Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove) wrote: >: A colleague of mine used on his Linux system the "fake browser ID" >: function of junkbuster (www.junkbuster.com) to proclaim that he was >: using "IE 3.0 for Linux". Then he forgot about it and a few days later >: surfed by www.microsoft.com. A few days after this he got an irate >: e-mail: "where did you get that from????". Seems they process their >: browser ID log files. >That's interesting to hear. I'm going to have to try this out. >It's pretty easy to fake this sort of thing on a Mac. Maybe >"IE 4.0 for MkLinux" will get their attention. :-) Gee willikers, you guys are so funny! Can I be like you when I discover the Linux way of life? -Eric Johnson Software Engineer ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!coop.net!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!towncrier.cc.monash.edu.au!wombat.cs.monash.edu.au!not-for-mail From: bmeyer@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 14 May 1998 06:46:55 +1000 Organization: This is innd taking over... Lines: 33 Message-ID: <6jd0rv$9sg$1@wombat.cs.monash.edu.au> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> Reply-To: bmeyer@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Host: modem13.cs.monash.edu.au X-NNTP-Posting-User: root nickb@primenet.com (Nick S Bensema) writes: >In article , >>... after which they turn around and criticise the Mac because >>you "cannot get at its guts" :-) >You know, the Commodore 64 was simple, and you could get at its guts. I beg to disagree --- the C64 was positively convoluted. The MTX-500, now there was a _simple_ machine ;-) >Like I said, we need to give our computers a BASIC interface again. The MTX-500 had BASIC, NODDY (don't ask!) and Z80 assembler as its built-in languages --- and you could effortlessly mix and match in a single program. And if you used assembler, there was the built-in debugger with single-stepping ability. Oh, those were the days.... >Today, you can't program your computer without faking it in HTML, >buying some $200 package from MS, or hunting down the DOS 5 version >of QBASIC in your Win95 CD. None of which is very publicized. *Grin* There must be a reason I enjoy programming Alpha assembler under linux/AXP ;-) Bernie -- ============================================================================ "It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy... ...let's go exploring" Calvin's final words, on December 31st, 1995 ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!198.138.0.5!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail From: viro@riemann.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 14 May 1998 07:44:47 -0400 Organization: -ENOENT Lines: 33 Approved: Who cares? Message-ID: <6jelff$sgq@riemann.math.psu.edu> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: riemann.math.psu.edu In article <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>, Robert Billing wrote: >In article <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> > tph@rmi.net "Tom Harrington" writes: > >> "IE 4.0 for MkLinux" will get their attention. :-) > >"IE 5 Alpha of MkLinux" might do even better. So what's your problem? $ telnet www.microsoft.com 80 Trying 207.68.156.49... Connected to www.microsoft.com. Escape character is '^]'. GET / HTTP/1.0 Host: www.microsoft.com Accept: */* User-Agent: IE 5 Alpha of MkLinux HTTP/1.1 200 OK Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0 [snippety-snip] Connection closed by foreign host $ And there you go... Not a big deal. If they'll send me anything - I'll post it here. Feel free to use the information. Al -- Browser? Who needs a stinkin' browser? ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news.linkline.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail From: viro@riemann.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 14 May 1998 08:32:59 -0400 Organization: -ENOENT Lines: 19 Approved: Who cares? Message-ID: <6jeo9r$sj8@riemann.math.psu.edu> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: riemann.math.psu.edu In article <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au>, Billy Moraby wrote: >no idea!!!!! thats right not everyone is capable!!! including ureself, >microsoft are the largest and most intuitive company there is, and >when they say something, they have experience behind what they say!!! >Not just stating things because u have no life and ure worried that >microsoft is taking over!! unless u got high qualifications, dont >ebven bother arguing, cause u are not in their league, HONK KONG >BOY!!!!! Wow! The worst imitation of B1FF I've seen this year. Speaking of which - what about alt.fan.b1ff (by motives of a.f.w)? We don't have such group. Methink it's sad omission. -- My theory is that someone's Emacs crashed on a very early version of Linux while reading alt.flame and the resulting unholy combination of Elisp and Minix code somehow managed to bootstrap itself and take on an independent existence. -- James Raynard in c.u.b.f.m on nature of Albert Cahalan ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Thu, 14 May 98 08:44:45 GMT Message-ID: <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <3550A944.3D8F@spam.here> <35697875.26798897@158.152.254.76> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> Reply-To: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 895141136 mail2news:28953 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-20.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net!tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 Lines: 14 In article <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> tph@rmi.net "Tom Harrington" writes: > "IE 4.0 for MkLinux" will get their attention. :-) "IE 5 Alpha of MkLinux" might do even better. -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties From: billym@box.net.au (Billy Moraby) Reply-To: bmoraby@hotmail.com Organization: MC Comp X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII NNTP-Posting-Host: async-152.box.net.au Message-ID: <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> Date: 14 May 98 11:54:34 GMT Lines: 47 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news.linkline.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!nntp.giganews.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.optus.net.au!yorrell.saard.net!news.camtech.net.au!news.box.net.au!async-152.box.net.au no idea!!!!! thats right not everyone is capable!!! including ureself, microsoft are the largest and most intuitive company there is, and when they say something, they have experience behind what they say!!! Not just stating things because u have no life and ure worried that microsoft is taking over!! unless u got high qualifications, dont ebven bother arguing, cause u are not in their league, HONK KONG BOY!!!!!In article <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au>, khchung@maths.unsw.EDU.AU says... > >Nick S Bensema (nickb@primenet.com) wrote: >: In article , >: Victor Eijkhout wrote: >: >Jeffrey Fulmer writes: >: > >: >> I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's >: >> "complexity." >: > >: >... after which they turn around and criticise the Mac because >: >you "cannot get at its guts" :-) > >: You know, the Commodore 64 was simple, and you could get at its guts. > >Not to everybody... it was a CLI so _some_ people still had trouble >figuring out how to load files, execute programs and generally do >useful things with the machine. Even with the appliance-like Mac >GUI, there are still people who fail to work out how to use it. > >As far as this complexity thing is concerned, it is mostly one of >whether one is willing/able* to learn how to use the hardware/software >compared to the amount of functionality one wants to get out of the >hardware/software. > >Mr Eijkhout's point is, I think, that some of these microsofties are >even more one-eyed than some of the more fanatical Amiga users (yes, >there _will_ be a new Amiga, RSN!). > >Cheers, > >Kin Hoong > >*Not everybody is capable of everything, and this is not usually a good >criterion in judging their competency, except in the use of that particular >thing. There are some exceptions, but I doubt that computers are one of >the exceptions. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!198.147.221.37!news.xnet.com!not-for-mail From: bofh@xnet.com Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 14 May 1998 13:42:48 -0500 Organization: Feh. Lines: 69 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6jelff$sgq@riemann.math.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: typhoon.xnet.com In-reply-to: viro@riemann.math.psu.edu's message of 14 May 1998 07:44:47 -0400 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.1 Interesting... I always knew they ran www.microsoft.com off IIS, but note this, when I tried: [gandhi] ~> telnet www.micrsoft.com 80 Trying 192.245.243.162... Connected to www.micrsoft.com. Escape character is '^]'. GET / HTTP/1.0 Host: www.microsoft.com Accept: */* User-Agent: IE 5 Alpha for MacOS HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 18:40:33 GMT Server: Apache/1.2b7 {...snip...} Either they finally managed to get apache running on NT, or M$ has given up on using NT for yet another web server. :) (oh, and just for amusement's sake, I tried it from another machine, and got something I think I'll print out and frame: ceco# telnet www.microsoft.com 80 Segmentation fault (core dumped) No, there's nothing wrong with telnet on that box, and yes, there's a clean route to microsoft.com from that machine. :) viro@riemann.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) said: > > In article <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>, > Robert Billing wrote: > >In article <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> > > tph@rmi.net "Tom Harrington" writes: > > > >> "IE 4.0 for MkLinux" will get their attention. :-) > > > >"IE 5 Alpha of MkLinux" might do even better. > > So what's your problem? > $ telnet www.microsoft.com 80 > Trying 207.68.156.49... > Connected to www.microsoft.com. > Escape character is '^]'. > GET / HTTP/1.0 > Host: www.microsoft.com > Accept: */* > User-Agent: IE 5 Alpha of MkLinux > > HTTP/1.1 200 OK > Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0 > [snippety-snip] > > > > > Connection closed by foreign host > $ > And there you go... Not a big deal. If they'll send me anything - I'll > post it here. Feel free to use the information. > Al > -- > Browser? Who needs a stinkin' browser? ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-fw.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!169.132.11.200!news.idt.net!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsfeed.sgi.net!news.sgi.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <355B6BAE.1454@NO-SPAM.sgi.net> From: Adam Stouffer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:01:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: dap-144-141.monroe.sgi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 18:01:22 EDT Billy Moraby wrote: > > no idea!!!!! thats right not everyone is capable!!! including ureself, > microsoft are the largest and most intuitive company there is, and > when they say something, they have experience behind what they say!!! > Not just stating things because u have no life and ure worried that > microsoft is taking over!! unless u got high qualifications, dont > ebven bother arguing, cause u are not in their league, HONK KONG > BOY!!!!!In article <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au>, > khchung@maths.unsw.EDU.AU says... you are pretty damn stupid, his headers say .au which is Australia .hk is hong kong -- ----------------------------------------- | Public enemy #10 | | Remove the NO-SPAM | ----------------------------------------- ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 14 May 1998 22:29:33 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35697875.26798897@158.152.254.76> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jcst3$109@epx.cis.umn.edu> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 krueger@cs.umn.edu (Alan Krueger) asked: > Neil Franklin (Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove) wrote: > > Then he forgot about it and a few days later > > surfed by www.microsoft.com. A few days after this he got an irate > > e-mail: "where did you get that from????". Seems they process their > > browser ID log files. > > Out of curiosity, how did they get his email address? Some browsers actually send the users email adress with requests, but junkbuster kills that. If he would be going from his own home page the would be an Referer:, but junkbuster also kills that. So I would assume they added 2 and 3 together. Take the IP address (or rather its DNS reverse lookup and add postmaster@ to it. For some reason I even credit MS with being able to do that. It was a while back, so I can't remember who it was, so I can't look up if that person uses an static IP address. Given that it was one of my Linux User Group colleagues, he would definitively be postmaster on his box. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Lawyers are killing society, perhaps we should return the favour. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news.linkline.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Thu, 14 May 98 22:49:48 GMT Message-ID: <895186188snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6jelff$sgq@riemann.math.psu.edu> Reply-To: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 895219840 mail2news:9133 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-10.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net!tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 Lines: 15 In article <6jelff$sgq@riemann.math.psu.edu> viro@riemann.math.psu.edu "Alexander Viro" writes: > And there you go... Not a big deal. If they'll send me anything - I'll > post it here. Feel free to use the information. Well done that man! -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Thu, 14 May 98 23:00:49 GMT Message-ID: <895186849snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> Reply-To: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 895219841 mail2news:9140 mail2news mail2news.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mail2News-Path: news.demon.net!post-10.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net!tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 Lines: 34 In article <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> bmoraby@hotmail.com "Billy Moraby" writes: > no idea!!!!! thats right not everyone is capable!!! including ureself, > microsoft are the largest and most intuitive company there is, and > when they say something, they have experience behind what they say!!! > Not just stating things because u have no life and ure worried that > microsoft is taking over!! unless u got high qualifications, dont > ebven bother arguing, cause u are not in their league, HONK KONG > BOY!!!!!In article <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au>, > khchung@maths.unsw.EDU.AU says... I don't know what you are using as posting software but, and I'll have to shout to get over the noise level in your posting, (everyone else put on ear defenders at this point) YOUR SPELL CHECKER THEY HAVE B******D UP COMPLETELY YOUR GRAMMAR CHECKER SHE IS EXPLODING YOU USE ENOUGH !!!!!!! TO MAKE NEW HOLE IN OZONE LAYER EVERYTHING M$ MAKES GOES HORRIBLY WRONG IN 20 MINS All right, you can all come out now. Sorry for the inconvenience. (As silence descends once more the small woodland creatures return, one by one, to the clearing, the fire is again lit, and the party resumes. In short a.f.c is getting back to normal.) -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.mcgill.ca!cs.mcgill.ca!raphael From: Louis RAPHAEL Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 14 May 1998 23:25:06 GMT Organization: Societe pour la promotion du petoncle vert Lines: 13 Message-ID: <6jfugi$ld1@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6jelff$sgq@riemann.math.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: willy.cs.mcgill.ca User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971127 (UNIX) (SunOS/4.1.4 (sun4m)) In alt.folklore.computers bofh@xnet.com wrote: : Interesting... I always knew they ran www.microsoft.com off IIS, but : note this, when I tried: : [gandhi] ~> telnet www.micrsoft.com 80 : Trying 192.245.243.162... : Connected to www.micrsoft.com. You made a typo - you telnet'ed to micrsoft.com instead of microsoft.com, hence the problem, I believe. Louis ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!204.253.208.250!vellocet.insync.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.attap.net!mango.singnet.com.sg!dahlia.singnet.com.sg!ocean.singnet.com.sg!id4.nus.edu.sg!luakt-r2.iscs.nus.edu.sg!not-for-mail From: Colin Tan Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 15 May 1998 03:14:33 GMT Organization: National University of Singapore Lines: 14 Message-ID: <6jgbup$fsl52@id4.nus.edu.sg> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <3550A944.3D8F@spam.here> <35697875.26798897@158.152.254.76> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6jelff$sgq@riemann.math.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: luakt-r2.iscs.nus.sg X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA release 961115] Alexander Viro wrote: : $ telnet www.microsoft.com 80 : And there you go... Not a big deal. If they'll send me anything - I'll : post it here. Feel free to use the information. That's odd, I got "connection refused". If they are refusing connections, how is anyone gonna get on their site? ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!greenaum.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail From: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk (Sam.) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 03:17:09 GMT Organization: Dis Message-ID: <3565b3a4.9074594@news.demon.co.uk> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6jelff$sgq@riemann.math.psu.edu> Reply-To: sam@greenaum.demon.co.ARSE!ARSE!ARSE!uk NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 895202298 nnrp-07:23109 NO-IDENT greenaum.demon.co.uk:194.222.71.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 On 14 May 1998 13:42:48 -0500, bofh@xnet.com wrote: >ceco# telnet www.microsoft.com 80 >Segmentation fault (core dumped) Process suicide. Never a pretty thing. It's breaking the news to the parent process that's the hardest thing. They just stand there,.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "When I said 'hello' just now, it sounded exactly like Jason. Which isn't surprising. Because I'm him!" - Jason, Havakazoo XXsam@greenaum.demon.co.ukXX http://www.greenaum.demon.co.uk/ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.26.210.166!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uow.edu.au!metro!unsw.edu.au!khchung From: khchung@maths.unsw.EDU.AU (Kin Hoong CHUNG) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Followup-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Date: 15 May 1998 05:27:52 GMT Organization: University of New South Wales Lines: 23 Message-ID: <6jgjoo$b0j$4@mirv.unsw.edu.au> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <6jeo9r$sj8@riemann.math.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: alpha.maths.unsw.edu.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Alexander Viro (viro@riemann.math.psu.edu) wrote: : In article <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au>, : Billy Moraby wrote: : >no idea!!!!! thats right not everyone is capable!!! including ureself, : >microsoft are the largest and most intuitive company there is, and : >when they say something, they have experience behind what they say!!! : >Not just stating things because u have no life and ure worried that : >microsoft is taking over!! unless u got high qualifications, dont : >ebven bother arguing, cause u are not in their league, HONK KONG : >BOY!!!!! : Wow! The worst imitation of B1FF I've seen this year. Speaking of which - : what about alt.fan.b1ff (by motives of a.f.w)? We don't have such group. : Methink it's sad omission. It's worse than that... I got a copy of the e-mail, and the header is one sad beast. No idea if somebody has it in for Billy Moraby or if this is really his maturity. Well, this proves that it is still September 1994, so there is no year 2000 problem :-). Cheers, Kin Hoong ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news.linkline.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail From: viro@riemann.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 15 May 1998 07:12:10 -0400 Organization: -ENOENT Lines: 16 Approved: Who cares? Message-ID: <6jh7ua$t2@riemann.math.psu.edu> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <6jeo9r$sj8@riemann.math.psu.edu> <6jgjoo$b0j$4@mirv.unsw.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: riemann.math.psu.edu In article <6jgjoo$b0j$4@mirv.unsw.edu.au>, Kin Hoong CHUNG wrote: [snip] >It's worse than that... I got a copy of the e-mail, and the header is one >sad beast. No idea if somebody has it in for Billy Moraby or if this is >really his maturity. Well, this proves that it is still September 1994, >so there is no year 2000 problem :-). ITYM "September 1993". HTH. HAND. -- My theory is that someone's Emacs crashed on a very early version of Linux while reading alt.flame and the resulting unholy combination of Elisp and Minix code somehow managed to bootstrap itself and take on an independent existence. -- James Raynard in c.u.b.f.m on nature of Albert Cahalan ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!newsfeed.ecrc.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail From: viro@riemann.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 15 May 1998 07:14:45 -0400 Organization: -ENOENT Lines: 18 Approved: Who cares? Message-ID: <6jh835$tk@riemann.math.psu.edu> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <355B6BAE.1454@NO-SPAM.sgi.net> <7fbtt03phj.fsf@faith.cs.hku.hk> NNTP-Posting-Host: riemann.math.psu.edu In article <7fbtt03phj.fsf@faith.cs.hku.hk>, Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~} wrote: [snip] >What prevents someone from being a Hong Kong boy studying in >Australia? Have you ever noticed that it's "edu.au"? I guess "unsw" >is the University of New South Wales. Don't you know that there are >many immigrants from Hong Kong in Sydney? > >Who is damn stupid? At least 2 of you. Probably even 3. Sorry, just couldn't resist ;-) -- My theory is that someone's Emacs crashed on a very early version of Linux while reading alt.flame and the resulting unholy combination of Elisp and Minix code somehow managed to bootstrap itself and take on an independent existence. -- James Raynard in c.u.b.f.m on nature of Albert Cahalan ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!newsm.ibm.net!ibm.net!ais.net!news.xnet.com!not-for-mail From: bofh@xnet.com Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 15 May 1998 08:48:35 -0500 Organization: Feh. Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6jelff$sgq@riemann.math.psu.edu> <6jfugi$ld1@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: typhoon.xnet.com In-reply-to: Louis RAPHAEL's message of 14 May 1998 23:25:06 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.1 Louis RAPHAEL said: > > In alt.folklore.computers bofh@xnet.com wrote: > > : Interesting... I always knew they ran www.microsoft.com off IIS, but > : note this, when I tried: > > : [gandhi] ~> telnet www.micrsoft.com 80 > : Trying 192.245.243.162... > : Connected to www.micrsoft.com. > > You made a typo - you telnet'ed to micrsoft.com instead of > microsoft.com, hence the problem, I believe. > > Louis I'll be damned...you're right! Ok, in that case, I'm shocked that M$ allowed "micrsoft.com" to exist. Now I'm gonna go back and have a look at that web page. Ahhhh. Loads a page saying "Please go back and check the domain name." Heh. Owned by some company with a P.O. box in St. Petersburg, FL. Learn something new every day, I suppose. :) ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail From: Ian_Connor@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:29:18 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 42 Message-ID: <6jhfvd$u3i$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.37.128.163 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri May 15 13:29:18 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.03 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i586) In article , p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) wrote: > > Jeffrey Fulmer wrote: > > I'm getting sick of the microsofties bitching about Linux's > > "complexity." As I read the posts and the gripes one thing is becoming > > quite apparent: They are attempting to install Linux on a partician on a > > machine that already has Winblows installed. I'm not saying this is [snip] > What I do object to is the u**x blowhards who claim that the sun shines > out of their system. When you ask them for an application to do real work > on real data they give you a crumbling cardboard box full of mouldy source > code. You take the bits home and wash them and dry them and iron them, and > massage them into a fit state for your own system, then find that it > cannot recognise data in an industry standard format, or that there is no > driver for the most popular output device on the market. Still, that's > they joy of u**x isn't it? Writing your own code. Oi - the glass is half full! The LINUX system I setup is quite a good server. I have: * intergrated the mail environment with Lotus Notes and MS Exchange; * established file and print sharing to 70 users using Samba; and * published a simple corporate home page with Apache; A friend at work has even got some software that manages our hubs. If I were to use NT it would cost 1 x server and 70 x client access licenses. If I then wanted to upgrade my CPU, I would have to buy another license. It is simply a question of business needs. If all that is needed is the above, and it works for free, then use it. If it does not meet you needs, don't. Have fun. -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!141.211.144.13!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!jobone!dailyplanet.srl.ford.com!eccws1.dearborn.ford.com!longhorn!tph From: tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Followup-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Date: 15 May 1998 15:31:59 GMT Organization: Mechanist Industries Lines: 19 Message-ID: <6jhn5f$2pe2@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <6jeo9r$sj8@riemann.math.psu.edu> <6jgjoo$b0j$4@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <6jh7ua$t2@riemann.math.psu.edu> Reply-To: tph@rmi.net NNTP-Posting-Host: cs0053.eld.ford.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Alexander Viro (viro@riemann.math.psu.edu) wrote: : In article <6jgjoo$b0j$4@mirv.unsw.edu.au>, : Kin Hoong CHUNG wrote: : >Well, this proves that it is still September 1994, : >so there is no year 2000 problem :-). : ITYM "September 1993". : HTH. HAND. Indeed: % sepdate Fri Sep 1718 09:24:51 MDT 1993 -- Tom Harrington --------- tph@rmii.com -------- http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph "A little nonsense now and then, Is cherished by the wisest man." -Willy Wonka Cookie's Revenge: ftp://ftp.rmi.net/pub2/tph/cookie/cookies-revenge.sit.hqx ###### From: sdlee@faith.cs.hku.hk (Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~}) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 15 May 1998 16:30:48 +0800 Organization: Department of Computer Science, The University of Hong Kong Lines: 25 Message-ID: <7fbtt03phj.fsf@faith.cs.hku.hk> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <355B6BAE.1454@NO-SPAM.sgi.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: faith.cs.hku.hk X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!202.84.255.3!news.hkt.net!news2.hkt.net!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!news.hku.hk!news.cs.hku.hk!not-for-mail >>>>> "Adam" == Adam Stouffer writes: >> unless >> u got high qualifications, dont ebven bother arguing, cause u >> are not in their league, HONK KONG BOY!!!!!In article >> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au>, khchung@maths.unsw.EDU.AU >> says... Adam> you are pretty damn stupid, his headers say .au which is Adam> Australia .hk is hong kong What prevents someone from being a Hong Kong boy studying in Australia? Have you ever noticed that it's "edu.au"? I guess "unsw" is the University of New South Wales. Don't you know that there are many immigrants from Hong Kong in Sydney? Who is damn stupid? -- Lee Sau Dan $(0,X)wAV(B(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ) .----------------------------------------------------------------------------. | http://www.cs.hku.hk/~sdlee e-mail: sdlee@cs.hku.hk | `----------------------------------------------------------------------------' ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!193.10.88.101!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!news.chalmers.se!dd.chalmers.se!f95pegr From: f95pegr@granis.hemmet.s-hem.chalmers.se (Peter Granroth) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Followup-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Date: 15 May 1998 18:20:20 GMT Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden Lines: 17 Message-ID: <6ji114$stm$1@eol.dd.chalmers.se> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6jelff$sgq@riemann.math.psu.edu> <6jj04n$l66$1@wombat.cs.monash.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: granis.hemmet.s-hem.chalmers.se X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] : >Connected to www.micrsoft.com. : Now this is really scary --- seems MS has registered all variations of : "microsoft" that just have one letter missing as their domains, and : routed them all to a special server that simply says "Check the spelling : of the domain name". try www.mcrosoft.com you'll get a somewhat different page showing up -- --------------------------------------------------------------- + Peter Granroth + Microsoft is not the answer + + Mail: f95pegr@dd.chalmers.se + Microsoft is the question + + WWW: http://193.10.242.45 + The answer is NO + --------------------------------------------------------------- ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news.fh-hannover.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!europa.clark.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!island.idirect.com!newsfeed.sgi.net!news.sgi.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <355CADCC.1927@NO-SPAM.sgi.net> From: Adam Stouffer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6jelff$sgq@riemann.math.psu.edu> <6jj04n$l66$1@wombat.cs.monash.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 20:55:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: dap-144-109.monroe.sgi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:55:43 EDT bmeyer@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au wrote: > > > > Now this is really scary --- seems MS has registered all variations of > "microsoft" that just have one letter missing as their domains, and > routed them all to a special server that simply says "Check the spelling > of the domain name". > like www.micros0ft.com -- ----------------------------------------- | Anti Archangel #30 | | Anti GEKKO #2 | | Public enemy #10 | ----------------------------------------- ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uow.edu.au!metro!unsw.edu.au!khchung From: khchung@maths.unsw.EDU.AU (Kin Hoong CHUNG) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Followup-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Date: 16 May 1998 09:29:43 GMT Organization: University of New South Wales Lines: 16 Message-ID: <6jjma7$7nj$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6jhfvd$u3i$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: alpha.maths.unsw.edu.au X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Ian_Connor@my-dejanews.com wrote: : In article , : p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) wrote: [deleted] : > : > What I do object to is the u**x blowhards who claim that the sun shines [deleted] : Oi - the glass is half full! : The LINUX system I setup is quite a good server. I have: Multics would have been even better :-). No panic() attacks! Cheers, Kin Hoong ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net!uunet!in4.uu.net!news.optus.net.au!wombat.cs.monash.edu.au!not-for-mail From: bmeyer@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 16 May 1998 13:11:19 +1000 Organization: This is innd taking over... Lines: 23 Message-ID: <6jj04n$l66$1@wombat.cs.monash.edu.au> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35577F82.AEB644B7@ccw.ch.remove> <6jci3h$fo83@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <895135484snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6jelff$sgq@riemann.math.psu.edu> Reply-To: bmeyer@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Host: modem05.cs.monash.edu.au bofh@xnet.com writes: >Interesting... I always knew they ran www.microsoft.com off IIS, but >note this, when I tried: >[gandhi] ~> telnet www.micrsoft.com 80 >Trying 192.245.243.162... >Connected to www.micrsoft.com. Now this is really scary --- seems MS has registered all variations of "microsoft" that just have one letter missing as their domains, and routed them all to a special server that simply says "Check the spelling of the domain name". Bernie P.S.: Great user-friendliness, BTW. Instead of simply serving you, anyway, they make you go back and correct your mistake.... -- ============================================================================ "It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy... ...let's go exploring" Calvin's final words, on December 31st, 1995 ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!prodigy.com!prodigy.com!not-for-mail From: Paul Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 02:49:17 -0400 Organization: none Lines: 39 Message-ID: <355E886D.FFDCE3D@prodigy.net> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: port38.sumi.prodigy.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Post-Time: 17 May 1998 06:49:30 GMT X-Auth-User: 000000000/c76165eaa459af1b X-Problems-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) Nick S Bensema wrote: > > > Like I said, we need to give our computers a BASIC interface again. BASIC is OK for quick junk. I guess. > > > Today, you can't program your computer without faking it in HTML, HTML isn't really programming. More like formatting. > buying some $200 package from MS, DJGPP free C and C++ compiler that runs under a Microsoft operatingsystem. NASM (what ever happened to this?) netwide assembler for Microsoft OSes > or hunting down the DOS 5 version > of QBASIC in your Win95 CD. A gem. Really their come on for their commercial offerings. Stillcan be fun though to play around with. > None of which is very publicized. Microsoft doesn't want the average computer luser to code.That's for 'special' people. Hehehe Remember an ignorant consumer is their best customer. Computers, it's a money racket. My favorite Microsoft commercial application, MASM 6.11 the very best video game on the market. I'll never get to the end of this game! The very best things in life really are free. Take Linux for example.... ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail From: Ian_Connor@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:15:47 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 55 Message-ID: <6jmkdj$fqs$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6jhfvd$u3i$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <6jjma7$7nj$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.37.128.163 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun May 17 12:15:47 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.03 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i586) In article <6jjma7$7nj$1@mirv.unsw.edu.au>, khchung@maths.unsw.EDU.AU (Kin Hoong CHUNG) wrote: > > Ian_Connor@my-dejanews.com wrote: > : In article , > : p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) wrote: > [deleted] > : > > : > What I do object to is the u**x blowhards who claim that the sun shines > [deleted] > : Oi - the glass is half full! > > : The LINUX system I setup is quite a good server. I have: > > Multics would have been even better :-). No panic() attacks! > > Cheers, > > Kin Hoong > Thanks for the tip - BURMA!. After reading you post I did some searching. I found an interesting section from: http://www.best.com/~thvv/general.html "2. Multics today 2.1. Where can I get a Multics account today? It won't be easy. The Multics sites still running are listed in the Sites FAQ. You could get a job at one of them, if they are hiring. 2.2. I'd like to see some Multics source. How? Perigon Solutions Inc., of Calgary, Alberta, Canada has rights to the Multics source. They are doing maintenance of Multics for the remaining Multics sites. The President and CEO there is Dr. Ron George. It was suggested in alt.os.multics, in spring 1993, that ACTC (as it was then called) produce or make the source available for a Multics source CD-ROM. Several people wrote letters to COO Arun Gatha about this. As far as I know, there has been no response to these letters. 2.3. Could Multics be ported to a modern micro? Yes. As a matter of fact, several projects were started to try this in the 80s, as described in this news group. None of these projects finished. Porting Multics would be a big job and risky, and the final product would need further development to match current state of the art. Paul Green says, "I think it would be easier to try 'improving' existing technology than to resurrect Multics itself." " -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!server4.netnews.ja.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!bjh21 From: bjh21@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ben Harris) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 18 May 1998 20:38:41 GMT Organization: University of Cambridge, England Message-ID: <6jq68h$m81$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <355E886D.FFDCE3D@prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: taurus.cus.cam.ac.uk Lines: 14 In article <355E886D.FFDCE3D@prodigy.net>, Paul wrote: >NASM (what ever happened to this?) netwide assembler >for Microsoft OSes Still being maintained by Simon Tatham. From his infotext on Monchrome: # NASM is a free assembler targetting the 80x86 series of # microprocessors. Version 0.97 is out now. It's available # from Simtel mirrors in .../msdos/asmutl, and from # sunsite.unc.edu mirrors in .../devel/lang/assemblers. -- Ben Harris Computer Officer, Corpus Christi College, Cambridge. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!server4.netnews.ja.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!bjh21 From: bjh21@cus.cam.ac.uk (Ben Harris) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 18 May 1998 20:38:41 GMT Organization: University of Cambridge, England Message-ID: <6jq68h$m81$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <355E886D.FFDCE3D@prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: taurus.cus.cam.ac.uk Lines: 14 In article <355E886D.FFDCE3D@prodigy.net>, Paul wrote: >NASM (what ever happened to this?) netwide assembler >for Microsoft OSes Still being maintained by Simon Tatham. From his infotext on Monchrome: # NASM is a free assembler targetting the 80x86 series of # microprocessors. Version 0.97 is out now. It's available # from Simtel mirrors in .../msdos/asmutl, and from # sunsite.unc.edu mirrors in .../devel/lang/assemblers. -- Ben Harris Computer Officer, Corpus Christi College, Cambridge. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!Supernews73!supernews.com!newscon01!prodigy.com!not-for-mail From: Paul Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:40:04 -0400 Organization: none Lines: 58 Message-ID: <35642EB4.19180ACC@prodigy.net> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <355E886D.FFDCE3D@prodigy.net> <6jq68h$m81$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: port3.sumi.prodigy.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Post-Time: 21 May 1998 13:39:58 GMT X-Auth-User: 000000000/c5bde924bd03373e X-Problems-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) Ben Harris wrote: > In article <355E886D.FFDCE3D@prodigy.net>, Paul wrote: > >NASM (what ever happened to this?) netwide assembler > >for Microsoft OSes > > Still being maintained by Simon Tatham. From his infotext on Monchrome: > > # NASM is a free assembler targetting the 80x86 series of > # microprocessors. Version 0.97 is out now. It's available > # from Simtel mirrors in .../msdos/asmutl, and from > # sunsite.unc.edu mirrors in .../devel/lang/assemblers. Thanks. Simtel is just so big, I mean who can really find too much there? :-)I just remember a lot bigger Internet presence a while back. Doing a keyword search on NASM turned up a lot of viable links. Let me give it a try today. Hmmm, the drought seems to be over, at least from Excite at any rate. The first link took me to Redhat.com RPMs, I hate those things. Must be because I don't run Redhat. Yeah, I know I could still use the buggers, I still don't like them though. Personal preference. Ah, now this is more like it, NATIONAL AIR & SPACE MUSEUM I seem to remember this noise from that last time I was poking around for this stuff. I'm sure it's very interesting, just not exactly what I'm looking for. Hmmm, National Association of Service Managers, now this doesn't even sound remotely interesting. Not even to Service Managers, but then again, I'm not one of them. So I really don't know what fills their sails. Honestly, when I do program in assembly language I use MASM *gasp* I know, from the evil empire. But honestly it's not half bad. I've tried to get a copy of TASM but even Borland doesn't seem to support the product very well anymore. What's it come with Delphi now a days? I tried to buy it a while back and got discouraged after a while and decided against buying a product that even the company that produced it seemed to have such a lack of interest in. A lot of the demo graphics code that is in circulation seems to need TASM. It takes me forever to try to fix the stuff up to compile under MASM. Then a lot of times it still doesn't happen. Maybe assembly language programming really is dead these days. Except for a few cranks who still use it for esoteric things like device drivers. Oh well, all good things must pass, I suppose. These days it's all Java jive. That's what I want to do, buy a fast computer and watch it perform just like a machine did years ago. Progress. Anyway, thanks for the tip as to where to get it today. I wonder how it does with TASM preprocessed code? What was that horrid switch? IDEAL AAAHHH!!!!!! I hate it. Really, I suppose I have to just code in C. If I used NASM I guess that I'd upgrade, my copy is 094 for DOS I don't even know if I have it for Linux or not. (I've got a ton of CDs) > > > -- > Ben Harris > Computer Officer, Corpus Christi College, Cambridge. A cool dude that knows where to get NASM now a days. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!IRIS.global-one.nl!news.cybercomm.nl!not-for-mail From: afterburn@phantom.cybercomm.nl_REMOVE_THIS (AfterBurn) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:58:11 GMT Organization: CyberComm Lines: 98 Message-ID: <3563f6e5.821779@news.cybercomm.nl> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: phantom.cybercomm.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 I didnt read the original post, and i as a linux fan i agree to most arguments you give, but, no offense, you rave about arrogance, ignorance, bullying ppl and putting ppl down, while this piece of you is just that in a very extreme way. if you dont agree, why do you lower yourself to the same (?) or worse kind of practise of the above mentioned things when you dislike them so much? you're not any better, or any different, you're just part of another camp. if you dont agree, fine, give arguments, or smile knowing you are using a superior os, but dont lower yourself to the same level as the one you disagree with. it just makes you look stupid and just as bad. you just made an a** out of yourself, and in doing so the arguments you have got lost to a level nobody notices or gives a shit. AfterBurn On Wed, 20 May 1998 16:30:22 GMT, Luke Holden wrote: -->The power of ignorance suprise me. It seems some people are just happy in a -->communist type market where the outcome is predetermined by some rich boy -->who has no real control over his company because its become so corrupt. -->Personally I thought living in america meant freedom of choice. Normally I -->find my self cussing and raving about how the government is trying to take -->away our freedom with there backdoors to encryption and trying to control -->the content of the internet. Strange I find my self ironically relieved -->seeing them trying to keep microsoft from having control of thing we know -->as the free market. What is a free market without the choice of products -->from different companies? Why do I find my self laughing in my seat when I -->see some ignorant microsoft fan/fool complaining about a world he has not -->experienced? How can someone be so profoundly stupid and give such -->meaningless opinions about matters there little brain cant comprehend? My -->god the world we live in. You know billy this great microsoft you rave -->about is not all you say it is. There utterly disgusting control on the -->computer market as it is is just sickening. All they care about is how they -->can make money. If they cared so much about the user why try and own -->everything? Isn't it to the users advantage to have options? Personally I -->don't enjoy someone telling me what I can or cant use. And I really don't -->enjoy someone trying to control the world I live in. What's so wrong with -->using Linux? How does me using Linux effect your life? How does any of us -->using Linux effect you at all? Why cant you sit down and think about why we -->use Linux. Think to your self about why windows isn't enough for us. Why it -->leaves us power hungry. Its like being spoon fed... The mind of the average -->Linux user is one that craves the power to do what he/she freely wants. A -->craving for power that windows cant provide. Does windows come with a -->complete development environment? Can you use Windows as a IP Masqurading -->server? Hell can you customize the way windows looks? Change the window -->manager? If windows was so great why are you limited to such a lame and -->restricted gui? You cant truly modify it. Where is the power in that? Yes -->not everyone cares about changing the way they interact with there gui but -->its just one feature we Linux users get from -->things like Xwindows. Come to think of it, who the hell do you think you -->are? If you where so bright you would understand the controlled world -->microsoft has brought upon you. By the way has your amazing ignorance -->resulted in your inability to function without putting someone down? Come -->on who the hell are you to go off trying to bully people? Your stupidity -->just makes us laugh. Hong Kong Boy? What type of remark is that? You don't -->get along well with other children do you? --> --> -->Luke Holden ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail From: maurice@hevanet.com Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:11:53 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 50 Message-ID: <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.175.225.36 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu May 21 11:11:53 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i486; Nav) In article <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org>, Luke Holden wrote: Luke, let's please have some paragraph breaks in the future. It's very difficult to read. > The power of ignorance suprise me. It seems some people are just happy in a > communist type market where the outcome is predetermined by some rich boy > who has no real control over his company because its become so corrupt. > Personally I thought living in america meant freedom of choice. Normally I > find my self cussing and raving about how the government is trying to take > away our freedom with there backdoors to encryption and trying to control > the content of the internet. Strange I find my self ironically relieved > seeing them trying to keep microsoft from having control of thing we know > as the free market. What is a free market without the choice of products > from different companies? That freedom never was and never can be taken away from you, unless the government restricts your choices. > Why do I find my self laughing in my seat when I > see some ignorant microsoft fan/fool complaining about a world he has not > experienced? How can someone be so profoundly stupid and give such > meaningless opinions about matters there little brain cant comprehend? My > god the world we live in. You know billy this great microsoft you rave > about is not all you say it is. There utterly disgusting control on the > computer market as it is is just sickening. All they care about is how they > can make money. If they cared so much about the user why try and own > everything? Isn't it to the users advantage to have options? Personally I > don't enjoy someone telling me what I can or cant use. And I really don't > enjoy someone trying to control the world I live in. What's so wrong with > using Linux? How does me using Linux effect your life? How does any of us > using Linux effect you at all? Exactly. What's so wrong with using Windows? How does me using Windows effect your life? How does any of us using Windows effect you at all? It doesn't. I run Linux too. If Microsoft didn't exist, it would make no difference to me. I'd still run Linux. If Microsoft earned 99.999% of the market, it would make no difference to me. I'd still run Linux. If Linux and FreeBSD and BeOS and Amoeba and Mach, etc. didn't exist, I'd get together with a bunch of friends and develop an OS. Just like what Linus did when he didn't like his choices. That's freedom. The free market is not at risk here. -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsm.ibm.net!ibm.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!backpost.satin.net!afrodite.telenet-ops.be!not-for-mail From: Bart Mijs Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:29:43 +0000 Organization: Héhéhhéhéhé not my real e-mail !!! Fucking SPAMMERS !!! Lines: 24 Message-ID: <35641027.427D3BF5@Pandora.be> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <3563f6e5.821779@news.cybercomm.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: antwerpen-131-114.kabel.pandora.be Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) AfterBurn wrote: > I didnt read the original post, and i as a linux fan i agree to most > arguments you give, but, no offense, you rave about arrogance, > ignorance, bullying ppl and putting ppl down, while this piece of you > is just that in a very extreme way. if you dont agree, why do you > lower yourself to the same (?) or worse kind of practise of the above > mentioned things when you dislike them so much? you're not any better, > or any different, you're just part of another camp. if you dont agree, > fine, give arguments, or smile knowing you are using a superior os, > but dont lower yourself to the same level as the one you disagree > with. it just makes you look stupid and just as bad. you just made an > a** out of yourself, and in doing so the arguments you have got lost > to a level nobody notices or gives a shit. Amen to that ! -- Vive Macintosh, all hail OS/2, Long live the Amiga, UNIX forever, umm, and all the other systems I didn't mention. We all compute differently, get over it. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.clark.net!198.138.0.5!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!not-for-mail From: viro@steklov.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 21 May 1998 11:32:18 -0400 Organization: -ENOENT Lines: 15 Approved: Who cares? Message-ID: <6k1he2$b6i@steklov.math.psu.edu> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: steklov.math.psu.edu In article <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net>, Shaw Terwilliger wrote: [snip] >Show me the OS, ANY OS, that Linux can't talk to (share files with, >hold interactive chat sessions, share files at a server level, read >filesystems of, browse web pages on, send email to, play Quake with, >etc.). You asked ;-) Try to network with OS/360. Or v6 UNIX... -- My theory is that someone's Emacs crashed on a very early version of Linux while reading alt.flame and the resulting unholy combination of Elisp and Minix code somehow managed to bootstrap itself and take on an independent existence. -- James Raynard in c.u.b.f.m on nature of Albert Cahalan ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.clark.net!205.231.236.10!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail From: NoSpam@flash.net (LShaping) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:39:39 GMT Organization: LShaping Lines: 8 Message-ID: <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Reply-To: NoSpam@flash.net NNTP-Posting-Host: sasc2-76.flash.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 > It doesn't. I run Linux too. If Microsoft didn't exist, it would make >no difference to me. I'd still run Linux. If Microsoft earned 99.999% >of the market, it would make no difference to me. I'd still run Linux. This is silly. And if you couldn't communicate with anyone, you'd still run Linux? ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!newsstand.tc.umn.edu!x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu!nobody From: Chris Mikkelson Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 21 May 1998 13:45:32 -0500 Organization: University of Minnesota Lines: 37 Sender: chris@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu Message-ID: <87iumzmpir.fsf@x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: x115-105.reshalls.umn.edu X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Shaw Terwilliger writes: > In alt.folklore.computers LShaping wrote: > >> ... I'd still run Linux. If Microsoft earned 99.999% > >>of the market, it would make no difference to me. I'd still run Linux. > > > This is silly. And if you couldn't communicate with anyone, you'd > > still run Linux? > > Are you implying that Linux can't network well? Hahahahahahahahhaha! > Show me the OS, ANY OS, that Linux can't talk to (share files with, > hold interactive chat sessions, share files at a server level, read > filesystems of, browse web pages on, send email to, play Quake with, > etc.). It has absoltely NO problem doing all these things > and more with Microsoft operating systems. No, I think what LShaping was getting at was Microsoft's tendencies. If Microsoft managed 99.999% market share, they could easily implement a proprietary networking protocol, and make it widespread. Needless to say, this protocol would be hideously complex, and difficutl to reverse-engineer (imagine the on-the-wire equivalent of the Win32 API). Then, since 99.999% of all PCs would be primarily talking MS's new networking protocol, you'd find that networking hardware and software vendors would be supporting it over IP. The open protocol used by Linux (and everybody else) could fall by the wayside, causing Linux to be unable to communicate with the rest of the world. We'd probably have to revert to UUCP in such a case, or set up our own network. The former is more practical for a small group with a little bit of money for long-distance. At the very least, UUCP over long-distance lines would provide a good incentive to keep software small ;-) -Chris ###### From: Shaw Terwilliger Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980226 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.33 (i486)) NNTP-Posting-Host: vader.eresnet.com Message-ID: <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> Date: 21 May 98 15:03:55 GMT Lines: 19 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.clark.net!205.231.236.10!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.msen.com!core.savvis.net!news.advancenet.net!vader.eresnet.com!sterwill In alt.folklore.computers LShaping wrote: > >> It doesn't. I run Linux too. If Microsoft didn't exist, it would make >>no difference to me. I'd still run Linux. If Microsoft earned 99.999% >>of the market, it would make no difference to me. I'd still run Linux. > > This is silly. And if you couldn't communicate with anyone, you'd > still run Linux? Are you implying that Linux can't network well? Hahahahahahahahhaha! Show me the OS, ANY OS, that Linux can't talk to (share files with, hold interactive chat sessions, share files at a server level, read filesystems of, browse web pages on, send email to, play Quake with, etc.). It has absoltely NO problem doing all these things and more with Microsoft operating systems. -Shaw Terwilliger (twig@advancenet.net) ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!srv1.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.crc.ca!nott!cunews!max!colinm From: colinm@max.carleton.ca (Colin McFadyen) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 21 May 98 17:23:20 GMT Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> <6k1he2$b6i@steklov.math.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: max.carleton.ca NNTP-Posting-User: colinm In <6k1he2$b6i@steklov.math.psu.edu> viro@steklov.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) writes: >In article <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net>, >Shaw Terwilliger wrote: >[snip] >>Show me the OS, ANY OS, that Linux can't talk to (share files with, >>hold interactive chat sessions, share files at a server level, read >>filesystems of, browse web pages on, send email to, play Quake with, >>etc.). > You asked ;-) Try to network with OS/360. Or v6 UNIX... Or, CP-6 (originally Honeywell, then Bull, now Wang)! -- Colin McFadyen - Systems Support - colinm@ccs.carleton.ca Carleton University Computing and Communications Services Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA K1S 5B6 ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!204.127.161.3!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.130.5!mtf1!newsadm From: jav-2@worldnet.att.net (John Varela) Newsgroups: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 21 May 1998 19:16:59 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 18 Message-ID: <6k1ujb$emn@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> Reply-To: jav-2@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.68.76.62 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: ProNews/2 Version 1.00 On Thu, 21 May 1998 15:03:55, Shaw Terwilliger wrote: > In alt.folklore.computers LShaping wrote: > > This is silly. And if you couldn't communicate with anyone, you'd > > still run Linux? > > Are you implying that Linux can't network well? Hahahahahahahahhaha! I believe what he is saying is that if all your correspondents were communicating by exchanging something like Word formatted docs you'd have a problem. Some people already have that problem. -- John Varela (delete . between world and net to e-mail me)  ###### Newsgroups: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.flash.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!kennyc From: kennyc@world.std.com (Kenneth R. Crudup) Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Message-ID: Reply-To: kenny@panix.com Organization: Scott County Consulting, Boston, MA References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> <6k1ujb$emn@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:20:15 GMT Lines: 21 In article <6k1ujb$emn@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, jav-2@worldnet.att.net says: >I believe what he is saying is that if all your correspondents were >communicating by exchanging something like Word formatted docs you'd have a >problem. Some people already have that problem. If it were *really* that severe, don't forget- We Are Linuxers! We'd write a filter, and most of our time would be playing "catch the moving MS standard". Not only that, I think there's several MS-W filters out there. -Kenny -- Kenneth R. Crudup, Unix & OS/2 Software Consultant, Scott County Consulting kenny@panix.com CI$: 75032,3044 +1 617 524 5929/4949 Home/Office 16 Plainfield St, Boston, MA 02130-3633 +1 617 983 9410 Fax "Linux, between Playstation and Craystation" -attribution unknown ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.idt.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!news.mindspring.net!news.mindspring.com!abuse From: abuse@orion-com.com (Joe Thompson) Newsgroups: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 03:07:47 -0400 Organization: Orion Computer Consulting Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> <6k1ujb$emn@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37kba9n.dialup.mindspring.com X-Server-Date: 22 May 1998 07:06:01 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 In article <6k1ujb$emn@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, jav-2@worldnet.att.net wrote: > I believe what he is saying is that if all your correspondents were > communicating by exchanging something like Word formatted docs you'd have a > problem. Some people already have that problem. Even if everybody's using Word, it can be a problem -- ever sen a corporate setting which is part Office 97 and part Office 95? Those early adopters of 97 create hell for the rest... -- Joe -- Joe Thompson | By sending commercial | Tech support is a fine O- He-Who-Grinds- | e-mail, you agree to | art which, once mastered, the-Unworthy | pay US$1000.00/item. | ensures loss of sanity. http://kensey.home.mindspring.com/ - Electrify the gene pool's fence! ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!news.mindspring.net!news.mindspring.com!abuse From: abuse@orion-com.com (Joe Thompson) Newsgroups: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 03:09:41 -0400 Organization: Orion Computer Consulting Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> <6k1ujb$emn@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37kba9n.dialup.mindspring.com X-Server-Date: 22 May 1998 07:07:55 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 In article , kenny@panix.com wrote: > We'd write a filter, and most of our time would be playing "catch the moving > MS standard". > > Not only that, I think there's several MS-W filters out there. Filters as such are by and large unnecessary. Most of the stuff worth getting out of your average Microsoft Word document can be gotten with the strings utility found on most Unix boxen I've worked with... -- Joe -- Joe Thompson | By sending commercial | Tech support is a fine O- He-Who-Grinds- | e-mail, you agree to | art which, once mastered, the-Unworthy | pay US$1000.00/item. | ensures loss of sanity. http://kensey.home.mindspring.com/ - Electrify the gene pool's fence! ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!203.97.37.6!clear.net.nz!auckland.ac.nz!p.kerr From: p.kerr@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 22 May 1998 04:40:16 GMT Organization: School of Music University of Auckland Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p.kerr.mus.auckland.ac.nz X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.2.0b6 Shaw Terwilliger wrote: > Are you implying that Linux can't network well? Hahahahahahahahhaha! > Show me the OS, ANY OS, that Linux can't talk to (share files with, > hold interactive chat sessions, share files at a server level, read > filesystems of, browse web pages on, send email to, play Quake with, > etc.). It has absoltely NO problem doing all these things ^^ my colleague, who is now head down tail up trying to get AppleTalk running with Linux-ppc, might disagree with your emphasis on that NO... -- Peter Kerr bodger School of Music chandler University of Auckland NZ neo-Luddite ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!newsfeed.ed.ac.uk!news From: Tim Bradshaw Newsgroups: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 22 May 1998 17:12:46 +0100 Organization: AIAI, University of Edinburgh Lines: 23 Sender: tfb@dubh.aiai.ed.ac.uk Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dubh.aiai.ed.ac.uk X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.2.25/XEmacs 19.14 * maurice wrote: > Luke Holden wrote: >> Strange I find my self ironically relieved >> seeing them trying to keep microsoft from having control of thing we know >> as the free market. What is a free market without the choice of products >> from different companies? > That freedom never was and never can be taken away from you, unless > the government restricts your choices. Yes it can. That's why there are anti-trust laws. Consider what happens if some dominant software vendor chooses deliberately undocumented, obscure and rapidly-changing data formats for, say, a word-processor. Then, if you want to interchange information with people who use that word-processor, you have to use it too, because no other vendor can keep up with the data format. So the system rapidly spreads until there are no other word-processors than it, and no newcomer can enter the market. --tim ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail From: mdevlin@eltrax.com (T. Max Devlin) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:24:06 GMT Organization: Eltrax Systems/Hi-TECH Connections Lines: 32 Message-ID: <35d4b449.362909347@news.supernews.com> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 895858615 EIYPDL16T158026F5 usenet42.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Shaw Terwilliger , on 21 May 98 15:03:55 GMT, >In alt.folklore.computers LShaping wrote: >> >>> It doesn't. I run Linux too. If Microsoft didn't exist, it would make >>>no difference to me. I'd still run Linux. If Microsoft earned 99.999% >>>of the market, it would make no difference to me. I'd still run Linux. >> > >> This is silly. And if you couldn't communicate with anyone, you'd >> still run Linux? > >Are you implying that Linux can't network well? Hahahahahahahahhaha! >Show me the OS, ANY OS, that Linux can't talk to (share files with, >hold interactive chat sessions, share files at a server level, read >filesystems of, browse web pages on, send email to, play Quake with, >etc.). It has absoltely NO problem doing all these things >and more with Microsoft operating systems. No, I think he is implying that if you, who likes Linux, feel content to let 99.99% of the world get sucked in by Microsoft, then you will very quickly find out that Microsoft has no interest in ensuring that it's 99.99% can communicate with your Linux box, so your networking capabilities would be useless. -- T. Max Devlin Hi-TECH Connections/Eltrax Systems ***************************************************** - Opinions expressed are my own. Anyone else may use them only in accordance with licensing agreements. - ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-stkh.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail From: mdevlin@eltrax.com (T. Max Devlin) Newsgroups: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:26:04 GMT Organization: Eltrax Systems/Hi-TECH Connections Lines: 28 Message-ID: <35d5b4e3.363063093@news.supernews.com> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> <6k1ujb$emn@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 895858733 EIYPDL16T158026F5 usenet42.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 jav-2@worldnet.att.net (John Varela), on 21 May 1998 19:16:59 GMT, >On Thu, 21 May 1998 15:03:55, Shaw Terwilliger >wrote: > >> In alt.folklore.computers LShaping wrote: > >> > This is silly. And if you couldn't communicate with anyone, you'd >> > still run Linux? >> >> Are you implying that Linux can't network well? Hahahahahahahahhaha! > >I believe what he is saying is that if all your correspondents were >communicating by exchanging something like Word formatted docs you'd have a >problem. Some people already have that problem. > Everybody already has that problem, it just might not hurt yet. It is often cited as one of the main reasons people keep using Windows, despite their knowledge of better alternatives (which, of course, will dry up and blow away if this problem is not resolved). -- T. Max Devlin Hi-TECH Connections/Eltrax Systems ***************************************************** - Opinions expressed are my own. Anyone else may use them only in accordance with licensing agreements. - ###### Newsgroups: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!bignews.mediaways.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!kennyc From: kennyc@world.std.com (Kenneth R. Crudup) Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Message-ID: Reply-To: kenny@panix.com Organization: Scott County Consulting, Boston, MA References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6k1ujb$emn@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:52:19 GMT Lines: 17 In article , abuse@orion-com.com (Joe Thompson) says: >Filters as such are by and large unnecessary. Most of the stuff worth >getting out of your average Microsoft Word document can be gotten with the >strings utility found on most Unix boxen I've worked with... -- Joe That's what *I* use, too- but the "Typical User" (tm) will want the same formatting on his say, Applix Words screen as he had on his MS-Word one. -Kenny -- Kenneth R. Crudup, Unix & OS/2 Software Consultant, Scott County Consulting kenny@panix.com CI$: 75032,3044 +1 617 524 5929/4949 Home/Office 16 Plainfield St, Boston, MA 02130-3633 +1 617 983 9410 Fax "Linux, between Playstation and Craystation" -attribution unknown ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail From: "dave porter" Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 22 May 1998 20:20:48 GMT Organization: none of the above Lines: 19 Message-ID: <01bd85bf$0e436ef0$0ba17392@glastonbury> References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> <35d4b449.362909347@news.supernews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 146.115.161.11 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 22 May 1998 20:20:48 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 On the other hand, that would certainly cut down on the spam mail, wouldn't it? dave -- For email, please remove the 'w' from my address. Sorry. T. Max Devlin wrote in article <35d4b449.362909347@news.supernews.com>... [lots of stuff removed] > No, I think he is implying that if you, who likes Linux, feel content to > let 99.99% of the world get sucked in by Microsoft, then you will very > quickly find out that Microsoft has no interest in ensuring that it's > 99.99% can communicate with your Linux box, so your networking > capabilities would be useless. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server4.netnews.ja.net!doc.ic.ac.uk!gatsby.u-net.com!not-for-mail From: David Wragg Newsgroups: alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 23 May 1998 02:52:07 +0000 Organization: Dept. of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK. Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> <6k1ujb$emn@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: getsetgo.doc.ic.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Lines: 12 abuse@orion-com.com (Joe Thompson) writes: > Filters as such are by and large unnecessary. Most of the stuff worth > getting out of your average Microsoft Word document can be gotten with the > strings utility found on most Unix boxen I've worked with... -- Joe Does your "strings" grok Unicode then? (At least the current MS office formats use Unicode. Not as UTF-8, either.) -- Dave Wragg ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!nntp.flash.net!ihug.co.nz!Fraggle From: Fraggle@ThePentagon.comNOSPAM (Fraggle) Newsgroups: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.fan.bill-gates,alt.os.linux,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Clueless Microsofties Date: 23 May 1998 22:36:34 GMT Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <35505B43.15829935@whiteoaknet.com> <6j836g$m1s@nntp02.primenet.com> <6jb506$mud$2@mirv.unsw.edu.au> <355adb7a.0@news.box.net.au> <35630565.9728D777@luke.ml.org> <6k125o$ns4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35642023.2039512@news.flash.net> <3564425b.0@news.advancenet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p17-tnt-ak-1.akl.ihug.co.nz X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.6 UNIX) On 21 May 98 15:03:55 GMT, Shaw Terwilliger wrote: >In alt.folklore.computers LShaping wrote: >> >>> It doesn't. I run Linux too. If Microsoft didn't exist, it would make >>>no difference to me. I'd still run Linux. If Microsoft earned 99.999% >>>of the market, it would make no difference to me. I'd still run Linux. >> > >> This is silly. And if you couldn't communicate with anyone, you'd >> still run Linux? > >Are you implying that Linux can't network well? Hahahahahahahahhaha! I'm guessing that he's saying that if Microsoft had 99.999% of the market Windows would use all proprietry protocols, web pages would be Wintel only etc. The internet would become 90% Microsoft only. -- Advertising is the rattling of a stick inside a swill bucket. -- George Orwell