[Note: these messages were part of an over 700 message flame war. I have better to do with my Webspace than give that an home] ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:24:12 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3535176C.353C9BAA@ccw.ch> References: <6gbt9f$s8u@news.asu.edu> <6ghk5c$k7e$3@nntp5.u.washington.edu> <6gihsl$2ks@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <352CE00D.19DFC308@stevens-tech.edu> <6gj3vg$2c3$1@news.skylink.net> <6gruq5$7if@world6.bellatlantic.net> <6gtpq0$h5n7@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i486) David Wragg wrote: > > By this reasoning, George would love Unix. On many (most? all?) > Unices, if you log in with your username in upper case, it will assume > you are on an upper case only terminal and the terminal driver will > translate everything to upper case. > > I think I tried this on Linux once (on the console). I think it > worked. I just tried it on this Linux 2.0.27 system - it works. -- private: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin.remove.this@arch.ethz.ch http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Can a Microsoft allergy be claimed on job health insurence? ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 01:25:44 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 71 Message-ID: <35393678.9DE09D94@ccw.ch> References: <6ghk5c$k7e$3@nntp5.u.washington.edu> <6gihsl$2ks@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <352CE00D.19DFC308@stevens-tech.edu> <6gj3vg$2c3$1@news.skylink.net> <6gmel3$sdp$1@news.skylink.net> <6h03o1$crk5@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <353db3d2.30347076@enews.newsguy.com> <6h2dtr$jm31@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com> <35362725.54315591@enews.newsguy.com> <6h3jql$os8$1@camco.celestial.com> <3536f569.21165704@enews.newsguy.com> <6h563t$cis$1@camco.celestial.com> <353877d1.621934@enews.newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i486) Hans-Georg Michna wrote: > > What do you (and everybody here) think about the handicap that > Unix is not owned by any coordinating entity. Well I for one would call being _owned_ a handicap. Just look at the many limitations that owners of software subject the users to (licenses and all that crap). > For example, > imagine I would do a professional enhancement of Linux. Who > could possibly pay me? Most likely no one. Linux (and any other freeware) is based on the recognition that the entire concept of production/industry/financing/owning/sales/paying that comes from the world of mass manufacture of physical goods does not port readily to anything digital. The entire structure mentioned above was developed to efficiently process matter into objects (manufacturing), the entire existing economy is geared to this. But bits do not need to be manufactured, they are simply copied by whoever wants a copy. This has a large influence on the design process. In an manufacturing scenario you can simply split development costs over the estimated production run. In an service industry you can similarly split the set up costs over the expected amount of customers. In both cases anyone who comes to you will have to pay this as an usually small overhead cost on the individual piece of work recieved. In the book/record industry we already see this construct collapsing. Copying (photocopier or tape recorder) make industrial reproduction lose importance, and so make linking authorship payment to distribution fails in the shape of the pirate. With digital media the copies become full quality originals, so pirating took off for good. Luckily digital media offer us an replacement for this development model: authorship split over many people who each adds just that piece they need to an ever expanding pool of software. The cost for each individual addition is so small it can be born as overhead on other activities. That is the end of the industrial model. The biggest things produced this way so far are the human languages. No one ever developed and licenced English, of French or any other. Nor any of the folk songs. This model of creating art is called culture. The attempts of managers (in the book, record and software industries) who haven't yet recognized the fundamental change happening to stop this with lawyers are doomed to fail badly. They managed to sink specialised technologies such as DAT and recordable CD, but something open like PC audio (with HDs or CD-RW) is invunerable to them. If they sink DVD video it will simply be PCs with MPEG that will give us open video. Technolog liberates, also from industrialism and its minions. Wellcome in the future! -- private: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin.remove.this@arch.ethz.ch http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Can a Microsoft allergy be claimed on job health insurence? ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:46:14 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 21 Message-ID: <35464016.B9D01087@ccw.ch.remove> References: <3543f2f4.7822232@paperboy.ids.net> <893663864snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6i4cni$4ig$2@strato.ultra.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i486) jmfbahxx@ma.ultranet.com wrote: > > In article <893663864snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk>, > Robert Billing wrote: > > > Linux X > > Linux text only > > What's the difference between Linux X and Linux text only? Methinks Robert hasn't yet cottoned on to what them multiple multiuser init(8) runlevels 2-5 are for. Hint: Things such as having /etc/rc[2-5].d/S99xdm only in some of them. If you want/dont-want X simply "init [2-5]" and X comes or goes, rest of the system simply stays running undisturbed. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ This computer has 2 cats, one in /bin, one on top purring. ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:36:59 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3548E0EB.3E90F7B0@ccw.ch.remove> References: <3537e807.289656654@news.aa.net> <893489744snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> <6i2a7b$j4n$1@agate.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i486) Bruce Becker wrote: > > In article , > R!ch Teer wrote: > >You actually think that M$ do any testing? > Their testing program is run by the marketing > department - they actually recruit end-users > as unwitting test department employees > > "if it makes it out of alpha, ship it" Erm. No quite true. As any reader of an great satire about 4 years ago knows Microsoft has an elaborate 3-stage testing system. Alpha Test: in-house Beta Test: selected customers (a.k.a. guinea pigs) Gamma Test: the first release buying public (a.k.a enthusiasts) Actual version: the patched version after 6 months. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Lawyers are killing society, perhaps we should return the favour. ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates = You whiners are ALL full Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:55:55 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 33 Message-ID: <355773EB.4440F324@ccw.ch.remove> References: <6if0g2$gn$1@newsfep4.sprintmail.com> <6j056k$q1c$10@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <6j4stq$a5t$1@ha2.rdc1.pa.home.com> <3556056C.4139@NO-SPAM.sgi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i486) Adam Stouffer wrote: > > The truth is that your average consumer is stupid. Thats why bullshit > products like windows end up on most desktop PCs. When was the last time I usually leave advocacy threads alone, but this needed an reply... May I inform you that consumers are not stupid, just sadly missinformed. They found out that computers existed, they went to a shop, got a computer including Microshit given to them, they used it, it was better than no computer. Really! So why should they assume that computers could be even better? They are already better than nothing (i.e. paper and pencil). So why relearn, just for an other computer. Better? You must be joking! Consider yourself privileged to know that better exists. Help consumers see the light. Dont't call them stupid. Never explain with maliciousness what can be adequately explained with incompetence. Go figure. Writing this on my trusty crash free home Linux system. Irix and Solaris sysadmin by profession. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Lawyers are killing society, perhaps we should return the favour. ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates <= You whiners are ALL full of shit! Date: 22 May 1998 21:58:16 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 35 Message-ID: <3ee23wo7.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> References: <352e77fd.865559618@news.aa.net> <356389B2.612F@NO-SPAM.sgi.net> <3572be9e.374801390@hydra> <67iz68pl.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> <6k24jt$brc@steklov.math.psu.edu> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 viro@steklov.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) corrected me: > In article <67iz68pl.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch>, > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > >a.f.c: History Error: User screwed - aborting... > > a.f.c: invalid address, core dumped. > > UCB != Murray Hills. In '69 there were no traces of UNIX in UCB. That error message was even better fitting. > >By pure accident the Internet and Unix were born in the same year. But > >these 2 events had nothing to do with each other. > > > >Unix'69 (:-)) was an 3 user, Teletype as terminal, 8kByte per proces, > >1 process in memory at a time, litte toy on an PDP 11/20 at Bell. The > >first "public" versions were around 1971. > > ITYM PDP-7. And reconsider the number of users (at least). Oops, I slipped up by a year. The PDP 11/20 with 3 users was 1970. 1969 was the PDP 7/340 with single user. And the TTYs were also on the 11, while the 7 had an vector plot display (the 340 thing), this was after all used to display the space flight orbits! Of course this puts the claim of Unix as Arpanet backbone even more into the land of phantasy. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates <= You whiners are ALL full of shit! Date: 22 May 1998 21:44:57 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 53 Message-ID: <4syi3xae.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> References: <352e77fd.865559618@news.aa.net> <356389B2.612F@NO-SPAM.sgi.net> <3572be9e.374801390@hydra> <67iz68pl.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> <6k2dh0$n5$1@eskinews.eskimo.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 I wrote 2 messages ago: >>"Identity Withheld" has just given us, in full public display, an case >>of clueless Microsofties trying to rewrite history, according to their ---------^^^ >ignorance of what really happened. cmd@eskimo.com (Craig Dowell) missread and got confused: >Let me get this straight: Some person mistakenly weaves 30 year old stories >of Bell Labs' "PDP-7 in a corner" and BBN's DDP-516 IMPs together and this >is a Microsoft plot to rewrite history? Gawd! To what %$#@^&% end? ---------^^^ 1. Open eyes, 2. Switch on memory, 3. Read carefully, 4. Use brain. I never claimed this to be from Microsoft, nor it to be an plot. I said that this was a typical case of the type of people who have grown up with their entire world Microsoft being ignorant of the details of history, but always being prepared to behave as if they knew everything. Following the theory that people interpret into what they have read what they want to see in it: What does this error say about you? >Fer chrissake, this stuff just gets more and more outrageous as time goes >on. I suppose that answers my question above, you are expecting it to get outrageousness, so you see that in my post. > I can't wait for the [serious] stories about reptilian aliens in >Redmond who want to have sex with Hillary Clinton and install Windows 98 >on the microchip implants that get stuck in your buttocks when you are >checked-out using a laser scanner down at Safeway. ;-) Now that would raise the standards of this thread :-). Don't forget to add that Bill is an alien stranded here after WinCE crashed his UFO. >>Thanks for making a fool of yourself. >[ ... ] Do I need to comment? -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates <= You whiners are ALL full of shit! Date: 22 May 1998 21:58:16 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 35 Message-ID: <3ee23wo7.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> References: <352e77fd.865559618@news.aa.net> <356389B2.612F@NO-SPAM.sgi.net> <3572be9e.374801390@hydra> <67iz68pl.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> <6k24jt$brc@steklov.math.psu.edu> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 viro@steklov.math.psu.edu (Alexander Viro) corrected me: > In article <67iz68pl.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch>, > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > >a.f.c: History Error: User screwed - aborting... > > a.f.c: invalid address, core dumped. > > UCB != Murray Hills. In '69 there were no traces of UNIX in UCB. That error message was even better fitting. > >By pure accident the Internet and Unix were born in the same year. But > >these 2 events had nothing to do with each other. > > > >Unix'69 (:-)) was an 3 user, Teletype as terminal, 8kByte per proces, > >1 process in memory at a time, litte toy on an PDP 11/20 at Bell. The > >first "public" versions were around 1971. > > ITYM PDP-7. And reconsider the number of users (at least). Oops, I slipped up by a year. The PDP 11/20 with 3 users was 1970. 1969 was the PDP 7/340 with single user. And the TTYs were also on the 11, while the 7 had an vector plot display (the 340 thing), this was after all used to display the space flight orbits! Of course this puts the claim of Unix as Arpanet backbone even more into the land of phantasy. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,seattle.general,alt.fan.bill-gates,comp.misc,alt.folklore.computers,alt.destroy.microsoft Subject: Re: The Microsoft Cult with Guru Bill Gates <= You whiners are ALL full of shit! Date: 28 May 1998 23:16:13 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 101 Message-ID: References: <352e77fd.865559618@news.aa.net> <67iz68pl.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> <6k2dh0$n5$1@eskinews.eskimo.com> <4syi3xae.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> <6khor0$8s5$1@eskinews.eskimo.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 cmd@eskimo.com (Craig Dowell) got confused: > Neil Franklin wrote: > >cmd@eskimo.com (Craig Dowell) missread and got confused: > >>>of clueless Microsofties trying to rewrite history, according to their > > ---------^^^ > >>Let me get this straight: Some person mistakenly weaves 30 year old stories > >>of Bell Labs' "PDP-7 in a corner" and BBN's DDP-516 IMPs together and this > >>is a Microsoft plot to rewrite history? Gawd! To what %$#@^&% end? > > ---------^^^ > > >I never claimed this to be from Microsoft, nor it to be an plot. I > >said that this was a typical case of the type of people who have grown > >up with their entire world Microsoft being ignorant of the details of > >history, but always being prepared to behave as if they knew everything. > > Usenet is full of ignorant people behaving as if they knew everything. > I still don't understand what this particular instance has to do with > Microsoft, though. For the second time: NOT with Microsoft, BUT with the people who grew up with MS-only tunnel vision. Such as MS evangelists like Identity Withheld. > >Following the theory that people interpret into what they have > >read what they want to see in it: What does this error say about you? > > It says that I read "'Identity Withheld' has just given us, in full public > display, an case of clueless Microsofties trying to rewrite history, > according to their ignorance of what really happened." > > Microsofties are people who work at Microsoft. Ah. Here we have your problem. You _are_ reading something into my text that I never wrote. You are defining Microsofies = MS Employees. While I were using Microsofties = people who think MS is the pinacle of the world. So that is why you got confused. > You say that these people > are trying to rewrite history. Yup and not. The people I was talking about, not those you were thinking I was talking about. And I did not say "trying" (which would imply deliberacy, while I was clearly speaking of ignorance = non deliberate). Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained with stupidity or ignorance. > You say that this instance happened in full > public display which, to deserve mention, implies that it happens usually > more discreetly. Yup. Or at least a lot more difficult to pin down. [rest of your argument snipped, as based on wrong interpretation] > >>Fer chrissake, this stuff just gets more and more outrageous as time goes > >>on. > > > >I suppose that answers my question above, you are expecting it to get > >outrageousness, so you see that in my post. > > Nope. Sorry. The outrageous comment was made by you and quoted above. Nope, The ourageousness was errorneously interpreted into the comment by you. > >>>Thanks for making a fool of yourself. > >>[ ... ] > > > >Do I need to comment? > > Did I? Your statement does say volumes, though. I tell you what ... > I'll just take as given the fact that you're going to eventually call > _me_ a fool Nope, just confused, as I already called you in my last post. To be a fool requires demonstrating stupidity or cluelessness, you did not show either, unlike I W who demonstrated clueless. > and go back to reading seattle.general related posts. Suggests that you may be an MS Employee, so that is why you got so upset (taking in account your missinterpretation). Well, I suppose we both (I am from a.f.c) can say "thanks" to a.f.bg and a.d.m for crossposting this whole thing to our 2 groups. > Followups set to alt.flame. Deleted, as I don't read that. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you