From: Phil Herring Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 20 Jan 1998 01:06:31 GMT Organization: University of Wollongong, Australia Lines: 24 Distribution: world Message-ID: <6a0tan$ec5$1@wyrm.its.uow.edu.au> References: <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <34c33235.438541046@news.esper.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mac4565.uow.edu.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Nuntius 2.0.4_PPC X-XXMessage-ID: X-XXDate: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:29:49 GMT Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uow.edu.au!mac4565.uow.edu.au!revdoc In article <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> Chris Hedley, cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk writes: >Is it just my imagination, or is BYTE nowhere near as interesting as >it once was? No, the IT world is no longer as interesting as it once was. Used to be that puters were rare, diverse beasts that required extensive knowledge to keep alive; nowadays they're reliable consumer goods that keep working (to an adequate, but not perfect level) regardless of maltreatment hurled their way. In other words, the manufacturers have been fixing the problems that made it all so interesting back then. This happened with cars, too, though not to the same extent. And let's not forget that diversity is long gone from the industry, and may not be back for many a year (but it will come back, sooner or later). So give new _Byte_ the flick. Treasure those back issues, collect the old boxes, and remember the folklore. And remember, the new stuff is pretty cool, too, and probably much cheaper in real terms. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright 1998 Phil Herring. This article may not be reproduced for profit. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: gleason@mwk.com (Lee K. Gleason) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Message-ID: Date: 20 Jan 98 08:29:40 CST References: <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com> Reply-To: gleason at mwk.com Organization: Control-G Consultants Lines: 10 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!mwk!gleason In article <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" writes: > > And yes, I got tired of Byte a few years ago myself. > When Steve Ciarcia left, Byte was over as far as I was concerned. Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants gleason@mwk.com ###### From: Simon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:27:51 +0000 Organization: Imperial College Lines: 11 Message-ID: <34C4D087.1871@ic.ac.uk> References: <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com> Reply-To: s.j.harris@ic.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: linpc.me.ic.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server5.netnews.ja.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server4.netnews.ja.net!news.cc.ic.ac.uk!not-for-mail Lee K. Gleason wrote: > > In article <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" writes: > > > > And yes, I got tired of Byte a few years ago myself. > > > When Steve Ciarcia left, Byte was over as far as I was concerned. > Whatever became of Ciarcia after he'd left Byte ? Simon. ###### From: gleason@mwk.com (Lee K. Gleason) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Message-ID: Date: 20 Jan 98 18:00:50 CST References: <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com> <34d52662.9547655@206.210.64.12> Reply-To: gleason at mwk.com Organization: Control-G Consultants Lines: 14 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsrelay.netins.net!news.ececs.uc.edu!newsfeeds.sol.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!mwk!gleason In article <34d52662.9547655@206.210.64.12>, newcomer@flounder.com (Joseph M. Newcomer) writes: > He publishes a magazine called "Circuit Cellar, Inc." which is quite > interesting, but I no longer do hardware, so I don't read it. The few > issues I run across are fun, but my interests have moved elsewhere. > joe > Circuit Cellar is OK, but it doesn't have the personal and playful touch that Ciarcia brought to his columns in BYTE. Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants gleason@mwk.com ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 20 Jan 1998 19:03:21 GMT Organization: home Lines: 11 Message-ID: <6a2sdp$l4u$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com> <34C4D087.1871@ic.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-065.dialup.zetnet.co.uk User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980105 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.30 (i486)) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!btnet-peer!btnet-feed1!btnet!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!fenelon.zetnet.co.uk!pete Simon wrote: > Whatever became of Ciarcia after he'd left Byte ? Circuit Cellar Ink -- a magazine that's kind of part-hobbyist/part embedded systems. Great fun. pete -- Pete Fenelon ("There's no room for enigmas in built-up areas") pete@fenelon.zetnet.co.uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/petef/ 3 Beckside Gardens, Melrosegate, York, Y01 3TX +44 1904 438472 ###### From: Pete Fenelon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 20 Jan 1998 19:07:51 GMT Organization: home Distribution: world Message-ID: <6a2sm7$l4u$2@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <34c33235.438541046@news.esper.com> <6a0tan$ec5$1@wyrm.its.uow.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-065.dialup.zetnet.co.uk User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980105 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.30 (i486)) Lines: 16 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!fenelon.zetnet.co.uk!pete Phil Herring wrote: > No, the IT world is no longer as interesting as it once was. Used to be that IT in its broadest sense is still fascinating -- just that the interesting bits are perhaps further from the average user than they used to be. Comms, networking, client-server, control, embedded systems etc. are all still evolving at a phenomenal rate; chip design is still an interesting area. Unfortunately, desktop boxes are boring as hell and have been for a long time -- the last desktop machine that was remotely interesting was the BeBox and look at the impact *that*'s made. pete -- Pete Fenelon ("There's no room for enigmas in built-up areas") pete@fenelon.zetnet.co.uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/petef/ 3 Beckside Gardens, Melrosegate, York, Y01 3TX +44 1904 438472 ###### From: tangent@SPAMCATCHER.cyberport.com (Warren Young) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:10:06 GMT Organization: none Lines: 60 Message-ID: <34c612ab.340336107@news.cyberport.com> References: <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 56k11-118.cyberport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.102.31.251!news.cmc.net!feeder.swcp.com!news.cyberport.com!not-for-mail cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk (Chris Hedley) wrote: >In article <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk>, > root@localhost writes: >> details in BYTE's august 1980 issue (the "forth issue"). more likely to >> be correct as well... > >Is it just my imagination, or is BYTE nowhere near as interesting as >it once was? ISTR that it used to carry informative articles from all >fields of computing, from micros to supercomputers, all manner of OS' >and languages, but now it seems that it's just another Wintel publication. >Apart from the very occasional issue, I haven't really bothered buying it >for quite a few years now, so I guess they could've got themselves out of >their rut, but somehow I fail to be optimistic as I guess mainstream PC >coverage is where the money is... Well, that's exactly it -- field magazines reflect the field. In at least some sense, supercomputing (for just one example) is no longer as "interesting" as it once was, since most of the companies have died off. Think about it: IBM might well have one of the most market-viable supercomputers available (the SP-2 series). Ain't that a kick in the pants? Frankly, what I see in this thread is a lot of Old Farts (that's a title, not an insult) complaining about how things aren't what they used to be. Well, that's the way life goes. In any case, I think Byte still has the broadest coverage of any mainstream "computer" magazine. Couple that with Dr. Dobb's Journal for its similarly broad programming coverage, and you've got a nice combination. I suspect that there are still "hardware hacking" magazines out there for those of you who like that, as well. Specifically, they've recently covered holographic and molecular storage, low-power RISC cores and I20 (2/1998); C++ compilers and SGI's new R12000 (1/1998); BeOS, NCs and "The Value of Free Software" (12/1997); satellite Internet communications, GNU Autoconf and Sun's Enterprise 450 series (11/1997); the Limbo langage of Inferno fame, Apple Macintosh clones (alas, just before they were all squished), the Psion handheld's OS, and UNIX ODBMSes (10/1997); and Oracle 8 (9/1997). This is all in the past six issues, and all of this is in more technical detail than any other magazine I get. I'd go back further, but I seriously lack the time to write more. Sure, they cover Windows every month, but they cover Java and Web technologies (usually from a UNIX perspective) every month, too. They always have some kind of programming content (though sometimes only in Java), and they at least mention new machines in their What's New section. Every now and then an article about the new supercomputing architectures comes up, too -- I clearly recall the one that included the Cray T3 and T90 (?) series of computers, and given my memory, that had to be within the past couple of years. The magazine also still has a "fun" flavor to it: their Blasts from the Past columnn helps me keep perspective with stories of $5000 1MHz machines, and their back page now features snippets from the Annals of Improbable Research. Can't beat that with a SIMM stick. = Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent = = Remove the SPAMCATCHER to email. -- Finger me! ###### From: newcomer@flounder.com (Joseph M. Newcomer) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:35:08 GMT Organization: Pittsburgh OnLine, Inc. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <34d52662.9547655@206.210.64.12> References: <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com> <34C4D087.1871@ic.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp14.s8.pgh.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!europa.clark.net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!fastnet!news.pgh.net!not-for-mail He publishes a magazine called "Circuit Cellar, Inc." which is quite interesting, but I no longer do hardware, so I don't read it. The few issues I run across are fun, but my interests have moved elsewhere. joe On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:27:51 +0000, Simon wrote: >Lee K. Gleason wrote: >> >> In article <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" writes: >> > >> > And yes, I got tired of Byte a few years ago myself. >> > >> When Steve Ciarcia left, Byte was over as far as I was concerned. >> >Whatever became of Ciarcia after he'd left Byte ? > >Simon. Joseph M. Newcomer newcomer@flounder.com http://www3.pgh.net/~newcomer ###### From: kth@srv.net (Kevin Handy) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 21 Jan 1998 18:35:42 GMT Organization: Software Solutions, Inc Lines: 21 Message-ID: <6a5f5u$5pe$1@usenet50.supernews.com> References: <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 5934@205.180.127.167 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.8 (x86 32bit) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.he.net!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail In article <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk>, cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk says... > >In article <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk>, > root@localhost writes: >> details in BYTE's august 1980 issue (the "forth issue"). more likely to >> be correct as well... > >Is it just my imagination, or is BYTE nowhere near as interesting as >it once was? ISTR that it used to carry informative articles from all I dropped Byte several years after noting that all of the articles were at best thinly disquised reviews of windows software and hardware. (I kept it for a couple of years hoping for a change). You need to get several other magazines to get the same kind of content that the old byte had (ie. Circuit Celer, Dr. Dobbs, C/C++ Journal, etc.) The nice thing abou the old Byte was it was all in one magazine. Now it is just another yuppie review magazine with lots and lots of ads. ###### From: "George Gray" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:04:42 -0500 Organization: Bell Atlantic Internet Solutions Lines: 9 Message-ID: <6a6gk7$5j7@world6.bellatlantic.net> References: <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com> <34C4D087.1871@ic.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 20934018.bellatlantic.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!world6.bellatlantic.net!news Byte has not been good since the late 1980's. When they abandoned the hobbyist/home user and went corporate, they stopped being useful and became just another lets-give-them-reviews magazine. The late '70 and early '80s were the best for Byte. That was an exciting time for personal computing anyway.Z-80, S-100, CP/M, 8 inch disks, HUGE 5mb hard disks...ah! Those were the days!!!! ###### From: TonyLima@ms.spacebbs.com (Tony Lima) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:30:18 GMT Organization: Nope, none Lines: 23 Sender: @207.204.228.201 Message-ID: <34c9d7d3.41412296@news.spacebbs.com> References: <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <34c33235.438541046@news.esper.com> <6a0tan$ec5$1@wyrm.its.uow.edu.au> Reply-To: TonyLima@ms.spacebbs.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 3731@207.204.228.201 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail On 20 Jan 1998 01:06:31 GMT, Phil Herring wrote: >In article <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> Chris Hedley, cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk writes: >>Is it just my imagination, or is BYTE nowhere near as interesting as >>it once was? > >No, the IT world is no longer as interesting as it once was. Used to be that >puters were rare, diverse beasts that required extensive knowledge to keep >alive; nowadays they're reliable consumer goods that keep working (to an >adequate, but not perfect level) regardless of maltreatment hurled their >way. > >In other words, the manufacturers have been fixing the problems that made >it all so interesting back then. This happened with cars, too, though not >to the same extent. And let's not forget that diversity is long gone from >the industry, and may not be back for many a year (but it will come back, >sooner or later). Bringing to mind the alleged Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times." Interesting computers tend to be not as productive on the job as less interesting (but perhaps more functional for most folks) machines. - Tony ###### From: TonyLima@ms.spacebbs.com (Tony Lima) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:30:20 GMT Organization: Nope, none Lines: 10 Sender: @207.204.228.201 Message-ID: <34cad827.41496606@news.spacebbs.com> References: <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com> Reply-To: TonyLima@ms.spacebbs.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 3731@207.204.228.201 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail On 20 Jan 98 08:29:40 CST, gleason@mwk.com (Lee K. Gleason) wrote: >In article <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com>, "Charlie Gibbs" writes: >> >> And yes, I got tired of Byte a few years ago myself. >> > When Steve Ciarcia left, Byte was over as far as I was concerned. Me, too. - Tony "AOL" Lima ###### From: dski@cameonet.cameo.com.twx (Dan Strychalski) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 22 Jan 1998 10:19:06 GMT Organization: Cameo Communications, Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: <6a76eq$cjj@news.seed.net.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.72.104.4 Originator: dski@ Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!spring.edu.tw!feeder.seed.net.tw!news.seed.net.tw!!dski Tony Lima wrote -- > Bringing to mind the alleged Chinese curse: "May you live > in interesting times." Interesting computers tend to be not > as productive on the job as less interesting (but perhaps > more functional for most folks) machines. - Tony Kudos on the "alleged." I've spoken and read Chinese for thirty years and lived in Taiwan for nineteen, and I've never come across anything remotely resembling such a phrase. Dan Strychalski dski at cameonet, cameo, com, tw Apologies for the non-threading newsreader and anti-spam device. ###### From: Broadsystem Australia Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:35:58 +1100 Organization: Broadsystem Australia Lines: 15 Message-ID: <34C82C3E.234E8C2F@newscorp.com.au> References: <6a76eq$cjj@news.seed.net.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.108.22.224 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net 885533440 13023 (None) 203.108.22.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ozemail.com.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!innfeed.telstra.net!nsw.news.telstra.net!ozemail!ozreader > Tony Lima wrote -- > > > Bringing to mind the alleged Chinese curse: "May you live > > in interesting times." Interesting computers tend to be not > > as productive on the job as less interesting (but perhaps > > more functional for most folks) machines. - Tony > It's actually an arabian curse. I like this one, you can insult people with them realizing it. ---------------- Tony Smith ###### From: bill_r@inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:44:22 GMT Organization: Internet Nebraska Lines: 33 Message-ID: <34e137b0.584035759@news.inetnebr.com> References: <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <69tena$dhl$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: in221.inetnebr.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.139.252.9!feed.newsreader.com!newsfeed.inetnebr.com!news.inetnebr.com!not-for-mail On 18 Jan 1998 17:38:50 GMT, Pete Fenelon wrote: >Still, on the intermittent occasions I buy it, it gives me great pleasure >to discover that Jerry Pournelle is still fundamentally unable to install >hardware or software -- how long have they had that bozo writing for them >now?! Isn't it amazing? He should have stuck with science fiction writing. And don't you just get so *sick* of hearing about his wife's PC and his son's PC, and the oh-so-clever (he seems to think) solutions he "discovers" in the form of obscenely over-priced 3rd-party hardware that somebody gives him for free because they want to get their name in Byte, that you could toss your cookies? *snort As far as I'm concerned, Byte lost everything that made it unique right around the time Steve Ciarcia left. I love the early stuff (in fact, I'm in the process of offering what is probably way too much for the first 12 issues of Byte (my collection starts with the ".01 Centennial Edition")), but I haven't even been able to bring myself to flip through a copy of the "new" Byte for a long time, because all the slick ads, clueless columnists, and handfuls of mail-in reply cards (haven't these people discovered e-mail??) are just way too annoying... -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When they took the fourth amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun. Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it." -www.paranoia.com ###### From: TonyLima@ms.spacebbs.com (Tony Lima) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:53:48 GMT Organization: Nope, none Lines: 15 Sender: @207.204.228.201 Message-ID: <34cc64a7.9052958@news.spacebbs.com> References: <6a76eq$cjj@news.seed.net.tw> Reply-To: TonyLima@ms.spacebbs.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 8227@207.204.228.201 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail On 22 Jan 1998 10:19:06 GMT, dski@cameonet.cameo.com.twx (Dan Strychalski) wrote: >Tony Lima wrote -- > >> Bringing to mind the alleged Chinese curse: "May you live >> in interesting times." Interesting computers tend to be not >> as productive on the job as less interesting (but perhaps >> more functional for most folks) machines. - Tony > >Kudos on the "alleged." I've spoken and read Chinese for thirty years >and lived in Taiwan for nineteen, and I've never come across anything >remotely resembling such a phrase. After all, this is a folklore froup ... - Tony ###### From: Kevin McQuiggin Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:15:23 -0800 Organization: Simon Fraser University Lines: 14 Message-ID: <34CAAE4B.3DAE@sfu.ca> References: <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <34c612ab.340336107@news.cyberport.com> <6ae484$qtg@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> Reply-To: mcquiggi@sfu.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: rs37-annex3.sfu.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.bc.net!news.sfu.ca!not-for-mail Dan@somewhere.on.the.net wrote: > By then we'll all be running ghz processors and terabyte hard drives. ^^^^^^^^^^^ I think that even the hard drive will be a thing of the past, to be replaced by some form of non-magnetic, non-mechanical, non-volatile storage. Disc drives are just about the only hanger-on from the "old" days. Their mechanical basis makes them the most susceptible component for failure in current machines. I'm not counting the keyboard, the other legacy device. Kevin ###### From: Dan@somewhere.on.the.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:30:16 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 29 Message-ID: <6ae484$qtg@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <34c612ab.340336107@news.cyberport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.70.32.127 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.450 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wnfeed!204.127.130.5!worldnet.att.net!newsadm On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:10:06 GMT, tangent@SPAMCATCHER.cyberport.com (Warren Young) wrote: >Frankly, what I see in this thread is a lot of Old Farts (that's a >title, not an insult) complaining about how things aren't what they >used to be. Well, that's the way life goes. > >In any case, I think Byte still has the broadest coverage of any >mainstream "computer" magazine. Couple that with Dr. Dobb's Journal >for its similarly broad programming coverage, and you've got a nice >combination. I suspect that there are still "hardware hacking" >magazines out there for those of you who like that, as well. > I agree with all of this. Byte still has the most in-depth coverage of new stuff of any "mainstream" magazine out there. Of course, that may not be saying much! A message downstream laments the "Good Old Days" of Z80's, CP/M, and those huge $3000, 5 meg hard drives. In 15 years we'll be lamenting the 90's and 133mhz pentiums, 32 megs of ram and 2 gig hard drives. By then we'll all be running ghz processors and terabyte hard drives. It never ends. Dan ###### From: Bill Bradford Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 25 Jan 1998 05:10:16 GMT Organization: Texas Networking, Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <6aehfo$5kl$1@news3.texas.net> References: <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <69tena$dhl$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <34e137b0.584035759@news.inetnebr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: staff2.texas.net Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.texas.net!news.texas.net!not-for-mail Bill Richman wrote: : process of offering what is probably way too much for the first 12 issues of : Byte (my collection starts with the ".01 Centennial Edition")), but I haven't : even been able to bring myself to flip through a copy of the "new" Byte for a : long time, because all the slick ads, clueless columnists, and handfuls of :mail-in reply cards (haven't these people discovered e-mail??) are just way too : annoying... Is it just me, or did BYTE go on a diet lately? A year or more ago, BYTE was a big hefty issue of print ads/articles/etc, but now its a skinny little magazine, not much more than reviews. I'm talking physical thickness, here. -- Bill Bradford Sr. Systems Engineer, Texas.Net http://www.texas.net mrbill@texas.net BeOS Developer #9630 ICQ: 1864511 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Giving hope to the hopeless, help to the helpless, and clue to the clueless ###### From: benc@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Ben Clifford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 25 Jan 1998 14:07:14 GMT Organization: Queen Mary & Westfield College, London, UK Lines: 14 Message-ID: <6afgui$6ks$2@beta.qmw.ac.uk> References: <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <69tena$dhl$1@irk.zetnet.co.uk> <34e137b0.584035759@news.inetnebr.com> <6aehfo$5kl$1@news3.texas.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: jason.dcs.qmw.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!nntp.flash.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!server4.netnews.ja.net!qmw!benc Bill Bradford (mrbill@texas.net) wrote: : Is it just me, or did BYTE go on a diet lately? A year or more ago, BYTE : was a big hefty issue of print ads/articles/etc, but now its a skinny little : magazine, not much more than reviews. I'm talking physical thickness, here. I get the same feeling - the BYTEs that my uncle used to send me when he had finished with them always felt pretty substantial. These don't :-( -- -- Will type things into computers for beer. http://www.dcs.qmw.ac.uk/~benc/ ###### From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 25 Jan 1998 16:18:01 -0500 Organization: Jeff's House of Electronic Parts Lines: 12 Message-ID: <6aga69$p3q@panix.com> References: <1208.323T754T7644303@sky.bus.com> <34C4D087.1871@ic.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com X-Newsposter: trn 4.0-test55 (26 Feb 97) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!nntp.flash.net!204.186.0.13.MISMATCH!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!fastnet!news-xfer.netaxs.com!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail >> > And yes, I got tired of Byte a few years ago myself. >> When Steve Ciarcia left, Byte was over as far as I was concerned. >Whatever became of Ciarcia after he'd left Byte ? He started his own built-it-yourself 'zine "Circuit Cellar Ink. see http://www.circellar.com/ # (203) 871-1988 2400/9600/14.4 V.32bis # (203) 871-0549 300/1200/2400/9600 HST -- Jeffrey Jonas jeffj@panix(dot)com Meow? PRR PRR PRR ! ###### From: cbh@REMOVE_THIS.teabag.demon.co.uk (Chris Hedley) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 25 Jan 1998 17:55:48 GMT Organization: teabag Message-ID: <6afub4$q6$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> References: <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <34c612ab.340336107@news.cyberport.com> <6ae484$qtg@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost X-NNTP-Posting-Host: teabag.demon.co.uk [193.237.4.110] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Newsreader: knews 0.9.8 Lines: 25 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!teabag.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail In article <6ae484$qtg@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, Dan@somewhere.on.the.net writes: > I agree with all of this. Byte still has the most in-depth coverage > of new stuff of any "mainstream" magazine out there. Of course, that > may not be saying much! I think that it's been overtaken by other magazines, and not all that recently either; for some years now, I've considered Personal Computer World (from the title, obviously a PC (implies Wintel) oriented mag) to have much better coverage than Byte, but I guess that's one of those subjective issues. It's also about 3 or 4 times as thick, too. :) Anyway, I'm probably biased because it has regular Unix columns, amongst other things. > A message downstream laments the "Good Old Days" of Z80's, CP/M, and > those huge $3000, 5 meg hard drives. In 15 years we'll be lamenting > the 90's and 133mhz pentiums, 32 megs of ram and 2 gig hard drives. > By then we'll all be running ghz processors and terabyte hard drives. > It never ends. Hmm, I'm not convinced I'll be reminiscing over today's plague of mediocrities in their uninspiring beige boxes; not unless things get a lot worse! Chris. ###### From: rhawkins@iastate.edu (Rick Hawkins) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 25 Jan 1998 21:32:05 GMT Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa USA Lines: 16 Message-ID: <6agb0l$abp$1@news.iastate.edu> References: <34c612ab.340336107@news.cyberport.com> <6ae484$qtg@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <34CAAE4B.3DAE@sfu.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: pv2086.vincent.iastate.edu Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!nntp.flash.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.iastate.edu!rhawkins In article <34CAAE4B.3DAE@sfu.ca>, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: >Dan@somewhere.on.the.net wrote: >I think that even the hard drive will be a thing of the past, to be >replaced by some form of non-magnetic, non-mechanical, non-volatile >storage. Wait a mimute, is this from 98, 88, or 78??? :) -- R E HAWKINS rhawkins@iastate.edu These opinions will not be those of ISU until they pay my retainer. ###### From: Onno Hovers Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 26 Jan 1998 16:07:01 +0100 Organization: Home and Away Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6ai8ql$irq@toad.stack.nl> References: <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <6a5f5u$5pe$1@usenet50.supernews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: toad.stack.nl User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980117 (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.1-STABLE (i386)) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.87.106.104!surfnet.nl!news.tue.nl!toad.stack.nl!not-for-mail Kevin Handy wrote: :>Is it just my imagination, or is BYTE nowhere near as interesting as :>it once was? ISTR that it used to carry informative articles from all : I dropped Byte several years after noting that all of the articles : were at best thinly disquised reviews of windows software and : hardware. (I kept it for a couple of years hoping for a change). : You need to get several other magazines to get the same kind of : content that the old byte had (ie. Circuit Celer, Dr. Dobbs, : C/C++ Journal, etc.) The nice thing abou the old Byte was it was all : in one magazine. Now it is just another yuppie review magazine with : lots and lots of ads. Well, I'm lucky. There is a computer magazine called C't (Magazin fuer Computer Technik) in germany that does not suck. Their hardware reviews are the best I have ever seen. They make fair comparisons between Windows, the Mac, Linux etc. They do criticize and write about the monopolistic policies of Intel and M$. And they have unraveled some of the worst shams on the computer market. I do not understand why Heise (http://www.heise.de/) does not translate this magazine into english and publish it in the rest of the world. Regards, Onno ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:18:17 +0100 Message-ID: From: peterk@combo.ganesha.com (Dr. Peter Kittel) Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Reply-To: peterk @ combo.ganesha.com References: <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <6a5f5u$5pe$1@usenet50.supernews.com> <6ai8ql$irq@toad.stack.nl> X-Newsreader: rn7.bas Lines: 13 Organization: Private Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!blackbush.xlink.net!ganesha.ganesha.com!shorter!combo.ganesha.com!peterk In article <6ai8ql$irq@toad.stack.nl> Onno Hovers writes: > >Well, I'm lucky. There is a computer magazine called C't (Magazin >fuer Computer Technik) in germany that does not suck. Well, but with some delay (trends from USA arrive here always with some delay) it suffers the same fate as BYTE. The coverage focuses more and more on Windows, alternatives are considered niches. It was also much better some years ago. -- Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // http://www.pios.de of PIOS Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ office: peterk @ pios.de ###### From: btgsch@rmplc.co.uk (ric) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:07:10 +0000 Organization: Those with six coloured blood Lines: 28 Message-ID: <1d3idfg.1yblviu1yobkg8N@rm-dynf1-135.rmplc.co.uk> References: <69amuq$na4$1@buffnet2.buffnet.net> <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <34c612ab.340336107@news.cyberport.com> <6ae484$qtg@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> <6afub4$q6$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: rm-dynf1-135.rmplc.co.uk X-Newsreader: MacSOUP 2.3 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!RMplc!rmplc.co.uk!btgsch Chris Hedley wrote: > In article <6ae484$qtg@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, > Dan@somewhere.on.the.net writes: > > I agree with all of this. Byte still has the most in-depth coverage > > of new stuff of any "mainstream" magazine out there. Of course, that > > may not be saying much! > > I think that it's been overtaken by other magazines, and not all that > recently either; for some years now, I've considered Personal Computer > World (from the title, obviously a PC (implies Wintel) oriented mag) to > have much better coverage than Byte, but I guess that's one of those > subjective issues. It's also about 3 or 4 times as thick, too. :) > Anyway, I'm probably biased because it has regular Unix columns, amongst > other things. > It has not always been so. I've read PCW since 1980, and remember the first test of the BBC micro, the IBM PC, the ZX81, the Lisa (The difficulty they had explaining the user interface) Originally it was a magazine for any personal computer, while now it has sadly wandered in the direction of wintel, with a token smattering of Unix, and maybe OS/2. In many ways, reading about the changes in Byte, they made me think of the changes PCW has undergone. C't is the only magazine I know of which resembles PCW and BYTE from the very early 1980s era, and sadly it is german language only AFAIK. -- 'ric ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: 27 Jan 1998 22:56:36 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 41 Message-ID: <67n5y417.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> References: <885083118.5471.1.nnrp-06.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> <69spe1$2a4$1@teabag.demon.co.uk> <6a5f5u$5pe$1@usenet50.supernews.com> <6ai8ql$irq@toad.stack.nl> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Onno Hovers wrote: >Well, I'm lucky. There is a computer magazine called C't (Magazin >fuer Computer Technik) in germany that does not suck. So am I. It's great. I have been reading it since issue 85-7. BTW: the propper spelling is c't. >They do criticize and write about the monopolistic policies >of Intel and M$. And they have unraveled some of the worst >shams on the computer market. Overclocking, faked frequency markings, placebo parity, fake caches, the Syncronys scandal, legalisms. And then of course their famed editorials (remember the Doom one?). >I do not understand why Heise (http://www.heise.de/) does not >translate this magazine into english and publish it in the >rest of the world. Interestingly c't one had a phase in which they re-printed translated articles from Byte. They stopped it after drawing flack from readers who disliked the crappy style (particularly the Bill Gates 25 years of BASIC one). But you forgot the one problem that c't has: it is the exact opposite of anemic: fat (300-400 pages every 2 weeks). That actually draws readers letters about "not yet finished the last one, and the now one is here". It is jokingly called "Germanys fatest mens magazine". It is ideal long lasting traveling literature for rail commuters. -- Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch, http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: Mac, 95 and NT users are CLUEless (Command Line User Environment) If I go missing, its once again my newsfeed that has craped ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: kmw@wibble.n-online.de (Karsten M. Winkovics) Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Sender: usenet@ichtys.n-online.de NNTP-Posting-Host: wibble.n-online.de Organization: /home, sweet /home Message-ID: <1998Feb18.055815.21390@ichtys.n-online.de> References: <34da64fc.10392908@news.innet.be> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 05:58:15 GMT Lines: 14 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.nacamar.de!blackbush.xlink.net!noris.net!ichtys.n-online.de!usenet In article <34da64fc.10392908@news.innet.be> lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) writes: > ric wrote: > > think of the changes PCW has undergone. C't is the only magazine I know > > of which resembles PCW and BYTE from the very early 1980s era, and sadly > > it is german language only AFAIK. > > Over here it is sold in Dutch. Maybe there are other languages too? > Wow. Do they machine-translate it to keep the schedule? kmw ###### From: lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der Veken) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: BYTE: not as good as it used to be? (Was "Amazing Tricks?") Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:50:14 GMT Organization: . Lines: 20 Message-ID: <34eb3a0b.596889@news.innet.be> References: <34da64fc.10392908@news.innet.be> <1998Feb18.055815.21390@ichtys.n-online.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: pmpool053-52.innet.be Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!krypton.inbe.net!INbe.net!not-for-mail On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 05:58:15 GMT, kmw@wibble.n-online.de (Karsten M. Winkovics) said: > In article <34da64fc.10392908@news.innet.be> lucvdv@null.net (Luc Van der > Veken) writes: > > Over here it is sold in Dutch. Maybe there are other languages too? > > > Wow. Do they machine-translate it to keep the schedule? I don't know about magazines, but recently I bought Schulman's "Unauthorized Windows 95". Because the original version wasn't available, I bought the Dutch translation. That one actually reads as if it was translated by a computer - and proofread by one too. -- The address in the "from" field is a real address, used as a spambox. Mail there may be read, or it may not. If you want to be sure, replace the domain by innet.be