From: hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: 13 Jan 1998 01:24:54 GMT Organization: Net Access BBS Lines: 10 Message-ID: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bbs.cpcn.com Originator: root@bbs.cpcn.com Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.nodak.edu!news.sendit.nodak.edu!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.59.152.222!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!netaxs.com!bbs.cpcn.com!root Someone mentioned a piece of a SAGE computer was at the Boston computer museum. Does anyone know what happened to the rest of the system and the buildings? Apparently despite their being vacuum tube machines, they remained in service until a relatively late date. It's hard to know how effective the system was. Obviously it was not used in combat. But, was its existence itself a major deterrence to attack? ###### From: jav-2@world.net.att.net (John Varela) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: 13 Jan 1998 02:39:37 GMT Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 13 Message-ID: <69ek59$asc@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.68.77.29 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: ProNews/2 Version 1.00 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!worldnet.att.net!newsadm On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:24:54, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) wrote: > Someone mentioned a piece of a SAGE computer was at the Boston computer > museum. > > Does anyone know what happened to the rest of the system and the buildings? I've got a couple of the plastic label inserts for the 15 PB modules around here somewhere. But those are from XD-1, not an FSQ-7. John "from the House of Blue Lights" Varela (delete . between world and net to e-mail me) ###### From: Dennis Ritchie Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:10:36 +0000 Organization: Bell Labs, Lucent Technologies Lines: 41 Message-ID: <34BAE93C.CB3@bell-labs.com> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> Reply-To: dmr@bell-labs.com NNTP-Posting-Host: cebu.cs.bell-labs.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; U) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-dc-3.sprintlink.net!news-dc-1.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.internetmci.com!199.117.161.1!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!nntphub.cb.lucent.com!news.research.bell-labs.com!news Lisa or Jeff wrote: > > Someone mentioned a piece of a SAGE computer was at the Boston > computer museum. > > Does anyone know what happened to the rest of the system and the buildings? Huge amounts of fascinating computer hardware are at the Si Val outpost of the Boston Computer Museum. This includes much of a SAGE system (walls of vacuum tubes, also an operator console with light gun resembling and weighing like a electric hand-drill, and it is furnished with built-in ashtray and cigarette lighter.) The museum has big pieces of most Seymour Cray machines, good representation of Digital Equipment, IBM, UNIVAC and successors, many others, much more. It's got a good reproduction of the equipment used in the 1890 census. There's more there than I really had a chance to comprehend. Most of the historical kit stored in the back rooms of the Computer Museum in Boston were moved there late last year, and it is very impressive to see. I have a photo of me with Evi Nemeth and John Lions in front of the JOHNNIAC that was in the back room in Boston, and it was nice to visit it again. The new space is already really good, and will be better. The temporarily-bad news is that this is still hard to get to. It's on the NASA Ames site at Moffett Field in Mountain View (Moffett Field exit from 101, building T12-A). The Computer Museum Web site (www.tcm.org) remains a bit lame about history but there's at least an announcement at http://www.tcm.org/info/press/wpr-silvalley.html . The hope and intent of museum is make it readily available. Negotiating the federal and local politics is tough, as is finding the funds for staffing and curating the museum. Dennis ###### From: taft@adobe.com (Ed Taft) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: 13 Jan 1998 10:33:31 -0800 Organization: Adobe Systems Inc., San Jose, California USA Lines: 23 Message-ID: <69gc1r$35b@crocodile.adobe.com> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69g7dj$5e3@panix2.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: crocodile.corp.adobe.com Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!chronicle.adobe.com!enquirer.corp.adobe.com!crocodile.adobe.com!not-for-mail >Someone mentioned a piece of a SAGE computer was at the Boston computer >museum. > >Does anyone know what happened to the rest of the system and the buildings? >Apparently despite their being vacuum tube machines, they remained in >service until a relatively late date. 1983 is the date I heard. Seems downright scary, doesn't it? But this isn't the only example of an archaic government-run computer system -- consider the air traffic control system. SAGE was massively over-engineered and highly redundant. Entire racks of vacuum tubes could be swapped out for repair while the system was in operation. Each cabinet had a built-in automatic fire extinguisher. All in all, quite an amazing system. The Boston Computer Museum used to have quite an impressive display of historic computers, of which SAGE was only one. But I visited again recently, and alas, the museum has been "modernized" and the historic computers have been relegated to a single small exhibit. -- Ed Taft Adobe Systems Inc., San Jose, California USA ###### From: richk@panix.com (Rich Kus) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: 13 Jan 1998 12:14:27 -0500 Organization: Panix Lines: 24 Message-ID: <69g7dj$5e3@panix2.panix.com> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Newsposter: trn 4.0-test55 (26 Feb 97) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail In article <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com>, Lisa or Jeff wrote: >Someone mentioned a piece of a SAGE computer was at the Boston computer >museum. > >Does anyone know what happened to the rest of the system and the buildings? >Apparently despite their being vacuum tube machines, they remained in >service until a relatively late date. > >It's hard to know how effective the system was. Obviously it was >not used in combat. But, was its existence itself a major deterrence >to attack? the sage buiding at mcguire afb, nj was turn over to mac. I believe that the sage building in duluth minn was turned over to universy. a friend ask me if i ever heard sage computer played music? he loaded up computer cards on the standby system and then walk out leaving the shift to listen to it. richk 65-67 duluth minn ###### Date: 13 Jan 98 14:33:28 -0800 From: "Charlie Gibbs" Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net> Message-ID: <831.317T1425T8734490@sky.bus.com> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 21 X-Newsreader: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) NNTP-Posting-Host: news.skybus.com Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!204.244.4.2!news.westel.com!news.skybus.com!204.244.247.123 In article <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net> grg@foundsys.com (George R. Gonzalez) writes: >Back on-topic, one part of the SAGE computers is still at work! > >If you watched the old TV series "Time-Tunnel", the SAGE control panel >was featured in the background. It's this big wall with many drk gray >shoebox-shaped rectangles, each rectangle has a knob about 3/4 of the >way up. > >In a bizarre turn, ABC TV News convention coverage last year had a big >CNN- like "set" with the usual tables, cameras, computers, and... the >old SAGE control panel again off to the left! That thing gets around. Woody Allen also used it in "Sleeper" (but I'm sure that huge CRT displaying Lissajous patterns wasn't part of the original equipment). -- cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs) Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply. ###### From: Tom Stepleton Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:37:38 -0600 Organization: Washington University in St. Louis Lines: 17 Message-ID: <34BBECB1.1517B56C@rototiller.wustl.edu> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <34bbb32c.5553081@news.wco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: as1-isdn-138.wustl.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!204.186.0.13.MISMATCH!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!199.125.85.9!news.mv.net!newspump.wustl.edu!newsreader.wustl.edu!not-for-mail David Cranford wrote: > That would be me. Sadly, another poster sugggests that even that > little bit has been ravaged (missing lightgun). If you're referring to my post, I think it's the other way around! I visited Moffett in 7/97, and I presume Mr. Ritchie visited at a later date. The TCM press release mentioned in his post announced the History Center's opening in October, and it certainly mentioned quite a few more computers than I saw. I would guess that when I visited they were still shipping SAGE bits across the country. Tom -- To e-mail me, substitute "artsci" for "rototiller" in my address. ###### From: dcranfor@SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMliveoak.com (David Cranford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:09:50 GMT Organization: Live Oak Software, Inc. Lines: 64 Message-ID: <34bbb32c.5553081@news.wco.com> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> Reply-To: dcranfor@SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMliveoak.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.21.31.30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!news.ncal.verio.com!not-for-mail Meanwhile, back at the ranch, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) wrote: >Someone mentioned a piece of a SAGE computer was at the Boston computer >museum. That would be me. Sadly, another poster sugggests that even that little bit has been ravaged (missing lightgun). > >Does anyone know what happened to the rest of the system and the buildings? >Apparently despite their being vacuum tube machines, they remained in >service until a relatively late date. Gutted (hardware) and reused (buildings). For example, IIRC the blockhouse formerly occupied by the 26th AD/NORAD at Luke AFB, AZ is now HQ, 58th Fighter Wing. The last SAGE Direction Center was decommissioned in 1984. (Here in the Bay Area are a few remnants. For example, the radar site still visible atop Mount Tamalpais was a SAGE Long Range Radar; there was also one near San Jose, and three or four more down the coast to the border. Don't know if those other radomes are still visible, tho.) > >It's hard to know how effective the system was. Obviously it was >not used in combat. But, was its existence itself a major deterrence >to attack? Not really, IMO - since it was designed for bomber defense, but became operational after the Soviets demonstrated their ICBM capability. SAGE was next to useless against ICBMs. Under ideal conditions (no jamming, few targets, few intercept solutions to calculate, etc), the Q-7 had a frame rate of 15.7 seconds. Any idea how far an ICBM can go in 15.7 seconds? :-) And, oh yeah, the controllers were supposed to shoot them down with barely-supersonic-in-a-dive-on-a-good-day F-102 interceptors. (Or, later, F-106, F-4, and finally F-14 and F-15 interceptors. But none of them could do much...) If they had any effect on US security at all, it was in the mid-seventies, when they were used by US Customs to assist in drug interdiction efforts. But not much came of that, either, for various reasons. SAGE's main contributions were to computer technology. SAGE was the first production computer with graphical output, the first to run in duplex mode, the first (I think) to incorporate drum memory, the first to operate interactively in realtime, etc. It's where the phrase "Mission-critical" came from. Even though it was build by IBM, I think it got DEC off the ground - I'm pretty sure that Ken Olson was deeply involved in its development, or at least that of its progenitor Whirlwind. SAABRE is a direct descendent of SAGE. Most of the FAA's enroute control capability is modeled on SAGE - only SAGE was more reliable. P.S. Now that I think about it, the first generation of AWACS controllers were mostly SAGE controllers, so I guess you can look at that as a positive contribution. :-) David Cranford Live Oak Software, Inc. Its opinions are mine. Perform a spamectomy on my return address. ###### From: dcranfor@SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMliveoak.com (David Cranford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:17:07 GMT Organization: Live Oak Software, Inc. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <34bcbcba.7999320@news.wco.com> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69g7dj$5e3@panix2.panix.com> Reply-To: dcranfor@SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMliveoak.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.21.31.30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.nodak.edu!netnews3.nwnet.net!netnews.nwnet.net!nntp.ni.net!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!news.ncal.verio.com!not-for-mail Meanwhile, back at the ranch, richk@panix.com (Rich Kus) wrote: > a friend ask me if i ever heard sage computer played music? he loaded > up computer cards on the standby system and then walk out leaving the shift > to listen to it. > I remember the music - we had video games, also! Let's see... we had tic-tac-toe, and a hula dancer - hit her navel with the light gun and her grass skirt fell down. And every Christmas eve, they'd show Santa & his sled coming down from the north. Hokey, yes, but predated Pong by over a decade. I also remember the night that I learned I could shut down NORAD's capability from Oregon to Texas by running half of an EAM card through the 020. Fortunately nobody ever figured it out... David Cranford Live Oak Software, Inc. Its opinions are mine. Perform a spamectomy on my return address. ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:41:24 -0500 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 27 Message-ID: <34BC09B4.3AE6EACC@stoneweb.com> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <34bbb32c.5553081@news.wco.com> <69gsgh$bck$1@news3.texas.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: zephyr.ultranet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 14 Jan 1998 00:41:24 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.229.87.25!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!199.232.56.18!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail Bill Bradford wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find details/pictures/etc of the SAGE > system on the web? I've looked before, but only found it mentioned in > passing. I have a pair of smallish shots of one of TC"M"'s SAGE tube racks and one of the control console (not the "graphics" on with the light gun. The link is under my "museum page" at "Trip to Boston's Computer Museum in paragraph. When I was there in late 1996, much of the historic collection was already crated and ready to be shipped west. The SAGE bits, the JOHNNIAC, and a piece of ENIAC were still there, though. It's a shame to have them gone from Boston, but I suppose it's "progress". For those curious about the scale of SAGE, the individuals in the first picture are all about 6 feet tall. -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| ###### From: Bill Urton Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:36:58 -0500 Organization: The South Carolina Home For The Criminally Inane Lines: 17 Message-ID: <34BC16BA.4ACE8198@scsn.net> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> Reply-To: wurton@scsn.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 21178@208.133.153.51 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail I think it was a SAGE installation (at least it was some kind of air defence radar system) that for years sat at Ft. Custer outside of Battle Creek, MI in a large concrete cube. The last time I was home it was being used by an off-site storage company. I have no idea what happened to the computer. Lisa or Jeff wrote: > > Someone mentioned a piece of a SAGE computer was at the Boston computer > museum. > > Does anyone know what happened to the rest of the system and the buildings? (snip) --------------------------------------------- Bill Urton Columbia, SC USA wurton@scsn.net ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: smyers@popmail.voicenet.com Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Reply-To: smyers@popmail.voicenet.com References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net> X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5 Lines: 44 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:52:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: chill.nj.117.voicenet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:52:06 EST Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.voicenet.com!news3.voicenet.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Those old computer control panels were the best. My favorite was the 360/75 panel. For two reasons. First, it was the one I pushed buttons on for 2 1/2 mostly happy years. Second, in the OS/360 Release 18 Operator's Guide, IBM published a photograph of every operator panel. The only one where they did that. Mostly the machines were powered down when the photographs were taken, but not the /75. If you looked real carefully, in the PSW, was a wait state code F03, which was a machine check PSW. So, IBM published a photo of a busted machine! The Model 91/95/195 panel was also very, very impressive. I have, in my basement, the panel from a 2880 block multiplexor channel. It is interesting more for what it reveals about the technology than for its contents, in my opinion. In <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net>, "George R. Gonzalez" writes: [snip] >Back on-topic, one part of the SAGE computers is still at work! > >If you watched the old TV series "Time-Tunnel", the SAGE control panel >was featured in the background. It's this big wall with many drk gray >shoebox-shaped rectangles, each rectangle has a knob about 3/4 of the way >up. > >In a bizarre turn, ABC TV News convention coverage last year had a big >CNN- like "set" with the usual tables, cameras, computers, and... the old >SAGE control panel again off to the left! -- Steve Myers The E-mail addresses in this message are private property. Any use of them to send unsolicited E-mail messages of a commerical nature will be considered trespassing, and the originator of the message will be sued in small claims court in Camden County, New Jersey, for the maximum penalty allowed by law. ###### From: Bill Bradford Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: 13 Jan 1998 23:14:25 GMT Organization: Texas Networking, Inc. Lines: 13 Sender: Bill Bradford Message-ID: <69gsgh$bck$1@news3.texas.net> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <34bbb32c.5553081@news.wco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: staff2.texas.net X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970613; i386 FreeBSD 2.2.5-RELEASE] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.texas.net!news.texas.net!not-for-mail David Cranford wrote: : That would be me. Sadly, another poster sugggests that even that : little bit has been ravaged (missing lightgun). Does anyone know where I can find details/pictures/etc of the SAGE system on the web? I've looked before, but only found it mentioned in passing. -- Bill Bradford Sr. Systems Engineer, Texas.Net http://www.texas.net mrbill@texas.net BeOS Developer #9630 ICQ: 1864511 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Giving hope to the hopeless, help to the helpless, and clue to the clueless ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: 14 Jan 1998 00:23:52 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Lisa or Jeff) wrote: >Apparently despite their being vacuum tube machines, they remained in >service until a relatively late date. IIRC I one read in an article (about software projects going wrong) that used as example the new (civilian) air traffic control system that the present system (derived from SAGE) also used vacuum tubes and is _still_ running on them! Anyone know whether this is this true or just an amusing story? -- Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam), http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: Mac, 95 and NT users are CLUEless (Command Line User Environment) If I go missing, its once again my newsfeed that has craped ###### From: mkurtti@hiwaay.net (Marvin E. Kurtti) Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:27:17 -0600 Message-ID: References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <34bbb32c.5553081@news.wco.com> <69gsgh$bck$1@news3.texas.net> <34BC09B4.3AE6EACC@stoneweb.com> Organization: retired X-Newsreader: Anawave Gravity v1.10 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Lines: 6 NNTP-Posting-Host: tnt1-210.HiWAAY.net 208.147.147.210 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.147.154.58!newstoo.hiwaay.net Concerning the SAGE ontribution to SF movies &TV: I remember watching a very low budget SF movie on TV that used a *picture* of the SAGE panel when they showed the computer room. Marv SAGE programmer 1956... ###### From: frisbie@flying-disk.spamblock.com (Alan Frisbie) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Message-ID: <1998Jan14.085501.1230@flying-disk.spamblock.com> Date: 14 Jan 98 08:55:01 PDT References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net> Organization: Flying Disk Systems, Inc. Lines: 24 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!globalcenter1!news.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uucp.primenet.com!flying!frisbie In article , smyers@popmail.voicenet.com writes: > Those old computer control panels were the best. > > My favorite was the 360/75 panel. Mine too. We had one at Aerojet General (Azusa, Calif.) in the early 1970's in a glassed-in computer room. The panel was positioned so that it could easily be seen by anyone passing by in the hallway. I'm sure that this was for the benefit of visitors. (Not to mention the attractive tape librarian who often wore a stare-through blouse.) I recall reading somewhere that the 360/75 was the only one that implemented the entire S/360 instruction set in hardware. The others all used some form of microcode. Can anyone confirm/refute this, particularly with regard to the 91/95/195? -- -- "From:" line deliberatly munged to prevent harvesting by spambots. -- Alan E. Frisbie Frisbie "@" Flying-Disk.Com -- Flying Disk Systems, Inc. (Remove quotes before replying) ###### From: "Julian Thomas" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 13:58:12 -0500 Organization: epix Internet Services Lines: 21 Message-ID: <34bd0b2d$2$wg$mr2ice@news.epix.net> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net> <1998Jan14.085501.1230@flying-disk.spamblock.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tmbg-115ppp72.epix.net X-Newsreader: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.44 b44 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.ece.cmu.edu!honeysuckle.srv.cs.cmu.edu!NNTP.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU!pitt.edu!dsinc!nntp.upenn.edu!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!globalcenter0!news.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!europa.clark.net!206.229.87.25!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!199.224.117.13!news3.epix.net!news1.epix.net!not-for-mail In <1998Jan14.085501.1230@flying-disk.spamblock.com>, on 01/14/98 at 08:55 AM, frisbie@flying-disk.spamblock.com (Alan Frisbie) said: >I recall reading somewhere that the 360/75 was the only one >that implemented the entire S/360 instruction set in hardware. The others >all used some form of microcode. Can anyone >confirm/refute this, particularly with regard to the 91/95/195? Of the original 360 line (30 through the 70/75) only the 75 was hardware controlled. The 90/95/195 came later, and iirc were also hardware controlled, as was the model 44, which did not provide the full 360 instruction set, and had some other differences. -- Julian & Mary Jane Thomas jt@epix.net http://www.epix.net/~jt In the beautiful Finger Lakes Wine Country of New York State! -------------------------------------------------- If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished! ###### From: mark@hubcap.clemson.edu (Mark Smotherman) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: 14 Jan 1998 15:59:16 -0500 Organization: Clemson University Lines: 20 Message-ID: <69j8v4$j94$1@hubcap.clemson.edu> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net> <1998Jan14.085501.1230@flying-disk.spamblock.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hubcap Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!solace!mn6.swip.net!nntp.uio.no!newsfeeds.sol.net!news.mindspring.net!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!hubcap.clemson.edu!hubcap.clemson.edu!not-for-mail frisbie@flying-disk.spamblock.com (Alan Frisbie) writes: >I recall reading somewhere that the 360/75 was the only one >that implemented the entire S/360 instruction set in hardware. >The others all used some form of microcode. Can anyone >confirm/refute this, particularly with regard to the 91/95/195? In IBM JRD Sept. 1981, "System/360 and Beyond," pp. 377-390, the S/360 models listed w/o microcode are: 44, 75, 91, 95, and 195. Elsewhere Flynn writes that about 20 model 91s were built, two 95s (used faster, thin-film memory), and about 20 195s. He states, "I was told that this number included two machines used primarily for COBOL job processing! This was a major feat of salesmanship, as we hadn't even implemented the decimal instructions (they were interpreted)." As I recall, the model 44 also lacked the decimal instructions, but I have no source handy to confirm that. -- Mark Smotherman, Computer Science Dept., Clemson University, Clemson, SC http://www.cs.clemson.edu/~mark/homepage.html ###### From: jorn@mcs.com (Jorn Barger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:55:56 -0500 Organization: http://www.mcs.net/~jorn/html/weblog.html Lines: 18 Message-ID: <1d2v7j4.14vneo61hd8cbsN@jorn.pr.mcs.net> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <34bbb32c.5553081@news.wco.com> <69gsgh$bck$1@news3.texas.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: jorn.pr.mcs.net X-Face: #0%K`N$`(&&tLbyv~^Ip59&CqKAo;?NXix@bv2a,uQX;y*zAek26=&iDOJou, 2\2pLI"TKqjx.[BfZf#2 wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find details/pictures/etc of the SAGE > system on the web? I've looked before, but only found it mentioned in > passing. I'm trying to remember where I read a detailed firstperson memoir, last year... Maybe on the Community Memory list archives? (This URL is a treasure trove of 1st-person reminiscences.) The author was very clear that SAGE would not have withstood the smallest effort of jamming, as simple as a trail of aluminum foil fragments. j ###### From: mark@hubcap.clemson.edu (Mark Smotherman) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: 15 Jan 1998 15:45:02 -0500 Organization: Clemson University Lines: 15 Message-ID: <69lsge$itq$1@hubcap.clemson.edu> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <34bbb32c.5553081@news.wco.com> <69gsgh$bck$1@news3.texas.net> <1d2v7j4.14vneo61hd8cbsN@jorn.pr.mcs.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: hubcap Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-dc-3.sprintlink.net!news-dc-1.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!sol.net!news.mindspring.net!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!hubcap.clemson.edu!hubcap.clemson.edu!not-for-mail A couple of library references on SAGE: M.M. Astrahan, B. Housman, J.F. Jacobs, R.P. Mayer, and W.H. Thomas, "Logical Design of the Digital Computer for the SAGE System," IBM Journal of Research and Development 1, 1, (January 1957) 76-83. J.F. Jacobs, The SAGE Air Defense System - A Personal History. Bedford, MA: MITRE Corp., 1986. ..sp 0.0625i ..ti -2 -- Mark Smotherman, Computer Science Dept., Clemson University, Clemson, SC http://www.cs.clemson.edu/~mark/homepage.html ###### From: kanecki@cs.uwp.edu (David Kanecki) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: 15 Jan 1998 18:45:50 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside Lines: 11 Message-ID: <69llgu$ejh$1@news.inc.net> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net> <831.317T1425T8734490@sky.bus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.uwp.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-dc-3.sprintlink.net!news-dc-1.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!nntp.inc.net!news.inc.net!cs!kanecki About 10 years ago, I read about the SAGE computer and it's program development. There was alot of good ideas that worked. I wish they would still be practiced. (Reduction of flowery code, it does not take 16MB to run a GUI operating system. Also, it does not take a bunch of add code either. One one GUI from 1987, it was easy to convert a command based system to a GUI system - I did it in about 2 hours). On the "Odessy of Science" PBS program last night, the SAGE computer was mentioned and the radar crt's were shown. ###### From: cschelin@bofh.hq.nasa.gov (Carl Schelin) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: 15 Jan 1998 20:11:28 GMT Organization: NASA Headquarters, Washington DC Lines: 17 Message-ID: <69lqhg$871@centauri.hq.nasa.gov> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69g7dj$5e3@panix2.panix.com> <34bcbcba.7999320@news.wco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bofh.hq.nasa.gov X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test60 (5 October 1997) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.clark.net!128.158.254.10!news.msfc.nasa.gov!centauri.hq.nasa.gov!not-for-mail In article <34bcbcba.7999320@news.wco.com>, David Cranford wrote: *snip* >I also remember the night that I learned I could shut down NORAD's >capability from Oregon to Texas by running half of an EAM card through >the 020. Fortunately nobody ever figured it out... > 'til now. *knock* *knock*, Hello, Mr. Cranford? Carl > -- Carl Schelin badlife ###### From: writer1@Eng.Sun.COM (Bob Morrisette) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: 15 Jan 1998 20:27:31 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <69lrfj$8ji$1@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM> References: <69gc1r$35b@crocodile.adobe.com> Reply-To: writer1@Eng.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: sabu.eng.sun.com Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!venus.sun.com!news2me.EBay.Sun.COM!engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM!not-for-mail Ed Taft said deleted above >The Boston Computer Museum used to have quite an impressive display of >historic computers, of which SAGE was only one. But I visited again >recently, and alas, the museum has been "modernized" and the >historic computers have been relegated to a single small exhibit. A lot of the Boston exhibit was moved to their museum at Moffat Field in Mountain View. Bob Morrisette ###### From: dcranfor@SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMliveoak.com (David Cranford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:38:09 GMT Organization: Live Oak Software, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <34bec7a3.34647160@news.wco.com> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69g7dj$5e3@panix2.panix.com> <34bcbcba.7999320@news.wco.com> <69lqhg$871@centauri.hq.nasa.gov> Reply-To: dcranfor@SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMliveoak.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.21.31.30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.20.0.50!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!news.ncal.verio.com!not-for-mail Meanwhile, back at the ranch, cschelin@bofh.hq.nasa.gov (Carl Schelin) wrote: >In article <34bcbcba.7999320@news.wco.com>, >David Cranford wrote: >*snip* >>I also remember the night that I learned I could shut down NORAD's >>capability from Oregon to Texas by running half of an EAM card through >>the 020. Fortunately nobody ever figured it out... >> > >'til now. > >*knock* *knock*, Hello, Mr. Cranford? > >Carl > >> Well, then, I'm *really* glad I didn't mention *why* Customs and BDAC had such problems using SAGE to track and catch druggies... :-) -DC David Cranford Live Oak Software, Inc. Its opinions are mine. Perform a spamectomy on my return address. ###### From: J. Chris Hausler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 19:21:25 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 27 Message-ID: <5tZHD59.jchausler@delphi.com> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net> <831.317T1425T8734490@sky.bus.com> <69llgu$ejh$1@news.inc.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.93.4.4 X-To: David Kanecki Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!169.132.11.200!news.idt.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.delphi.com!news David Kanecki writes: >About 10 years ago, I read about the SAGE computer and it's program >development. There was alot of good ideas that worked. I wish they would >still be practiced. (Reduction of flowery code, it does not take 16MB to >run a GUI operating system. Also, it does not take a bunch of add code >either. One one GUI from 1987, it was easy to convert a command based >system to a GUI system - I did it in about 2 hours). QNX has a bootable floppy complete with graphical Browser available as a demo! >On the "Odessy of Science" PBS program last night, the SAGE computer was >mentioned and the radar crt's were shown. It was just after the beginning of the second half of the "Bigger, Better, Faster" segment (5 segments each of 2 hours). What's more they showed a number of pictures of Whirlwind including a current interview with Forrester talking about core memory. (Whirlwind was the first "high speed" EDPM and was conveniently available, and in need of a savior, when the air force needed to do what only a high speed EDPM could do. Thus it became the proving ground for all the Q-7 technologies.) When they started talking about core they showed a still picture of Forrester looking at a Whirlwind electrostatic storage tube. I wish they had said a little more about some of the other memory technologies being used at that time. Chris ###### From: tumble@ids.net Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 06:55:51 +500 Organization: IDS World Network Internet Access Service Lines: 21 Message-ID: <69vf09$f0n$1@paperboy.ids.net> References: <69gc1r$35b@crocodile.adobe.com> <69lrfj$8ji$1@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM> NNTP-Posting-Host: ids.net X-Trace: paperboy.ids.net 885210953 15383 (None) 155.212.1.2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ids.net Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.229.87.25!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!155.212.1.8!paperboy.ids.net!not-for-mail > >>The Boston Computer Museum used to have quite an impressive display of >>historic computers, of which SAGE was only one. But I visited again >>recently, and alas, the museum has been "modernized" and the >>historic computers have been relegated to a single small exhibit. > >A lot of the Boston exhibit was moved to their museum at Moffat Field >in Mountain View. > The Retro-Computing Society of RI, Inc. was favored with the last tour of the old Boston collection just prior to final shipping. There are several pix available at RCS/RI sites. Umm, the embarassing thing is that I forget the actual site name, Carl... I know you're out there, help me out here ^_^ Either way, run a yahoo search, try www.osfn.ord/rcs or users.tmok.com/~tumble and navigate thru the links. I know we still have pix posted. ^_^ --john ###### From: "Benz" Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <69gc1r$35b@crocodile.adobe.com> <69lrfj$8ji$1@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM> <69vf09$f0n$1@paperboy.ids.net> Message-ID: <01bd24f7$302cb400$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.3.250.107 Date: 19 Jan 98 16:24:52 GMT Lines: 34 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.wildstar.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.internetmci.com!198.190.226.3!pgh.nauticom.net!207.3.250.107 I knew a guy in college who had a computer museum in his basement. He collected a lot of old mainframe hardware, and had a number of systems operational, just for fun. Boy, you should see his electric meter spin when he fires up some of those old dinosaurs.... Benz tumble@ids.net wrote in article <69vf09$f0n$1@paperboy.ids.net>... > > > >>The Boston Computer Museum used to have quite an impressive display of > >>historic computers, of which SAGE was only one. But I visited again > >>recently, and alas, the museum has been "modernized" and the > >>historic computers have been relegated to a single small exhibit. > > > >A lot of the Boston exhibit was moved to their museum at Moffat Field > >in Mountain View. > > > > The Retro-Computing Society of RI, Inc. was favored with the last tour of the > old Boston collection just prior to final shipping. There are several pix > available at RCS/RI sites. > > Umm, the embarassing thing is that I forget the actual site name, Carl... I > know you're out there, help me out here ^_^ > > Either way, run a yahoo search, try www.osfn.ord/rcs or users.tmok.com/~tumble > and navigate thru the links. I know we still have pix posted. ^_^ > > --john > ###### From: Ian Stirling <000034C643AD.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:51:25 GMT Organization: None. Message-ID: <000034C643AD.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net> <831.317T1425T8734490@sky.bus.com> <69llgu$ejh$1@news.inc.net> <5tZHD59.jchausler@delphi.com> X-Mail2News-User: Send.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk X-Mail2News-Path: post-10.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net!mauve.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 885408746 27547 Send.NO_UCE mauve.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971106 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.30 (i486)) X-Note: Anti-UCE in effect, replying should work if you are not UCE'ng X-Warning0: For unsolicited commercial email, sent or causing to be sent to my email address X-Warning1: on this message, I reserve the right to levy a charge for my time and expenses X-Warning2: of up to 100 pounds sterling per message, plus legal, penalty or other costs. Lines: 25 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!mauve.demon.co.uk!000034C643AD.NO_UCE J. Chris Hausler wrote: : David Kanecki writes: : :>About 10 years ago, I read about the SAGE computer and it's program :>development. There was alot of good ideas that worked. I wish they would :>still be practiced. (Reduction of flowery code, it does not take 16MB to :>run a GUI operating system. Also, it does not take a bunch of add code :>either. One one GUI from 1987, it was easy to convert a command based :>system to a GUI system - I did it in about 2 hours). : : QNX has a bootable floppy complete with graphical Browser available : as a demo! And web-server, and TCP/IP stack, and text editor, .... It's cute, but essentially a toy, as it has no way to save settings. Now, if it had a way to save things to disk, then it would be very handy. -- Ian Stirling. Designing a linux PDA, see http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ ----- ******* If replying by email, check notices in header ******* ----- Prosperity and ruin issue from the power of the tongue. Therefore, guard yourself against thoughtless speech. ###### From: J. Chris Hausler Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 20:01:16 -0500 Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice) Lines: 13 Message-ID: <5JaFkk8.jchausler@delphi.com> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net> <831.317T1425T8734490@sky.bus.com> <69llgu$ejh$1@news.inc.net> <5tZHD59.jchausler@delphi.com> <000034C643AD.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.93.4.2 X-To: Ian Stirling <000034C643AD.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.nodak.edu!netnews3.nwnet.net!netnews.nwnet.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.delphi.com!news Ian Stirling <000034C643AD.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> writes: >: QNX has a bootable floppy complete with graphical Browser available >: as a demo! > >And web-server, and TCP/IP stack, and text editor, .... > >It's cute, but essentially a toy, as it has no way to save settings. >Now, if it had a way to save things to disk, then it would be very handy. Yes, but I said its just a demo. If you want the real thing, QSSL will sell it to you. Of course, it ain't cheap ... Chris ###### From: Ian Stirling <000034C8EE56.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: SAGE (was Were computers invented...) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:24:06 GMT Organization: None. Message-ID: <000034C8EE56.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> References: <69efp6$s3k@netaxs.com> <69enp8$em9$1@shadow.skypoint.net> <831.317T1425T8734490@sky.bus.com> <69llgu$ejh$1@news.inc.net> <5tZHD59.jchausler@delphi.com> <000034C643AD.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <5JaFkk8.jchausler@delphi.com> X-Mail2News-User: Send.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk X-Mail2News-Path: post-10.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net!mauve.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 885584138 27326 Send.NO_UCE mauve.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971106 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.30 (i486)) X-Note: Anti-UCE in effect, replying should work if you are not UCE'ng X-Warning0: For unsolicited commercial email, sent or causing to be sent to my email address X-Warning1: on this message, I reserve the right to levy a charge for my time and expenses X-Warning2: of up to 100 pounds sterling per message, plus legal, penalty or other costs. Lines: 24 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.idt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!mauve.demon.co.uk!000034C8EE56.NO_UCE J. Chris Hausler wrote: : Ian Stirling <000034C643AD.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> writes: : :>: QNX has a bootable floppy complete with graphical Browser available :>: as a demo! :> :>And web-server, and TCP/IP stack, and text editor, .... :> :>It's cute, but essentially a toy, as it has no way to save settings. :>Now, if it had a way to save things to disk, then it would be very handy. : : Yes, but I said its just a demo. If you want the real thing, There is a difference between wanting to buy a full-blown realtime OS, and being willing to buy/register for a small sum a single disk web browser package. I think there might be a small market for the latter. -- Ian Stirling. Designing a linux PDA, see http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ ----- ******* If replying by email, check notices in header ******* ----- Prosperity and ruin issue from the power of the tongue. Therefore, guard yourself against thoughtless speech.