From: fbarlett@lynx.dac.neu.edu (ferruccio barletta) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 30 Dec 1997 14:58:31 GMT Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA Lines: 31 Message-ID: <68b26n$ij7$2@isn.dac.neu.edu> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lynx.dac.neu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!nntp.neu.edu!lynx.dac.neu.edu!fbarlett Jordin Kare (kare@sirius.com) wrote: : In article <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com>, "Cardell Coger" : wrote: : > Where can i fine the meaning behind error code messages i sometime on : > receive on my computer. : I find it ominous that this message was posted to alt.folklore.computers. : Do users believe error message meanings are folklore? : "...My granny always told me to beware of getting Error 37 during : a full moon, as bad luck would follow..." : Or perhaps the interpretation of error messages is now : a new class of fortune-telling, along with tea leaves and the I Ching: : "You received two 'file not found' errors followed by 'abort, retry, fail' -- : you will soon receive money from a stranger." : I am reminded of a long-ago discussion of computer problems in which : it was pointed out that white smoke coming from your disk drive : probably meant a hardware failure -- unless, of course, your : computer had just been elected Pope. : Jordin Kare The worst error message you can receive is probably: I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that. If you get this one. Run. FGB ###### From: kare@sirius.com (Jordin Kare) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:17:17 -0700 Organization: Sirius Connections Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68b26n$ij7$2@isn.dac.neu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-astk05--013.sirius.net Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.direct.ca!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.wli.net!newshub.sirius.com!newsfiler.sirius.com!ppp-astk05--013.sirius.net!user In article <68b26n$ij7$2@isn.dac.neu.edu>, fbarlett@lynx.dac.neu.edu (ferruccio barletta) wrote: > > : > Where can i fine the meaning behind error code messages i sometime on > : > receive on my computer. > > > The worst error message you can receive is probably: > > I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that. > > If you get this one. Run. Q: What's the worst computer error message an F-14 pilot over the mid-Pacific can receive? A: NO CARRIER Jordin (What we have here is a failure to communicate) Kare ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: john@cognac.localnet (John Pearson) Subject: Re: Error code Sender: news@huiac.apana.org.au (news) References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.3.2 UNIX) Organization: John & Terry Pearson at home Message-ID: X-Nntp-Posting-Host: dewiac.localnet Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:47:30 GMT Lines: 32 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!nntp.flash.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.ntr.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!munnari.OZ.AU!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!news.mtx.net.au!chuckie.apana.org.au!huiac!john In article , Jordin Kare wrote: >In article <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com>, "Cardell Coger" > wrote: > >> Where can i fine the meaning behind error code messages i sometime on >> receive on my computer. > >I find it ominous that this message was posted to alt.folklore.computers. >Do users believe error message meanings are folklore? >"...My granny always told me to beware of getting Error 37 during >a full moon, as bad luck would follow..." > >Or perhaps the interpretation of error messages is now >a new class of fortune-telling, along with tea leaves and the I Ching: >"You received two 'file not found' errors followed by 'abort, retry, fail' -- >you will soon receive money from a stranger." > >I am reminded of a long-ago discussion of computer problems in which >it was pointed out that white smoke coming from your disk drive >probably meant a hardware failure -- unless, of course, your >computer had just been elected Pope. > >Jordin Kare To borrow some advice from another odd thread, perhaps he should check out this URL: > >> >http://www.grapho.net/codes/ John P. -- john@huiac.apana.org.au ###### From: dpeschel@u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 1 Jan 1998 07:47:28 GMT Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Lines: 20 Message-ID: <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: saul9.u.washington.edu X-Trace: nntp4.u.washington.edu 883640848 21588 (None) 140.142.64.1 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: dpeschel Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!worldnet.att.net!news.u.washington.edu!dpeschel In article , Jordin Kare wrote: >Or perhaps the interpretation of error messages is now >a new class of fortune-telling, along with tea leaves and the I Ching: >"You received two 'file not found' errors followed by 'abort, retry, fail' -- >you will soon receive money from a stranger." Actually, I think the I Ching versions of error messages would look like: Hesitation. Above, drought. The valley is barren. The great man flees. Below, the forest. The trees bend in the wind. The king may chop them but the prince may not. Paper is scarce. Zero at the top bit means: Recovery. The great man may travel on the line. No blame. Quite a while ago, I saw a mesasge suggesting that compiler errors should look more like fortune-cookie fortunes. -- Derek ###### From: butting@cs.waikato.ac.nz (Bryce Utting) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 1 Jan 1998 08:52:40 GMT Organization: Computer Science Department Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: rose.cs.waikato.ac.nz X-Newsreader: slrn (0.8.7.1 UNIX) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!innfeed.telstra.net!nsw1.news.telstra.net!ihug.co.nz!clear.net.nz!news.hn.netlink.co.nz!waikato!butting D. Peschel (dpeschel@u.washington.edu) wrote: >Actually, I think the I Ching versions of error messages would look like: > > Hesitation. Above, drought. The valley is barren. The great > man flees. Below, the forest. The trees bend in the wind. > The king may chop them but the prince may not. Paper is scarce. > Zero at the top bit means: Recovery. The great man may travel on > the line. No blame. Recommended short form: Error two-fifty. butting (hth) -- Bryce Utting http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~butting the cross before me, the world behind me no turning back ###### From: "tim" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 1 Jan 1998 09:29:53 GMT Organization: tim Lines: 32 Message-ID: <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust195.tnt1.krk1.da.uu.net X-Auth: 5E4D889A089A509244520412 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.gte.net!news.gte.net!not-for-mail Microsoft error code would be: 'error' Tim Bryce Utting wrote in article ... > D. Peschel (dpeschel@u.washington.edu) wrote: > >Actually, I think the I Ching versions of error messages would look like: > > > > Hesitation. Above, drought. The valley is barren. The great > > man flees. Below, the forest. The trees bend in the wind. > > The king may chop them but the prince may not. Paper is scarce. > > Zero at the top bit means: Recovery. The great man may travel on > > the line. No blame. > > Recommended short form: Error two-fifty. > > > butting (hth) > > -- > Bryce Utting http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~butting > > the cross before me, the world behind me > no turning back > > ###### From: Tom Seddon Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:44:35 +0000 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: sunholme.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: sunholme.demon.co.uk [193.237.138.67] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Trial Version 3.04 Lines: 12 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!194.159.255.21!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!sunholme.demon.co.uk!tom In article <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net>, tim writes >Microsoft error code would be: > >'error' Perhaps "Application error"? -- otherwise how are they going to put the blame onto someone else? :-) (That is, if the computer is in enough of a state after the crash to be able to print an error message...) --Tom ###### From: Jan van den Broek Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 2 Jan 1998 09:56:46 +0100 Organization: Bond van Verdronken Zeelieden Message-ID: <68ia4e$7d8$1@xs2.xs4all.nl> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: xs2.xs4all.nl X-XS4ALL-Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:56:48 CET X-Order: Two pints of lager and a packet of crisps, please. X-Questions: not even known by many to exist X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #4 Lines: 17 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!204.186.0.13.MISMATCH!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!newsxfer.visi.net!europa.clark.net!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!xs4all!nestorix2.xs4all.nl!xs4all!not-for-mail "tim" writes: >Microsoft error code would be: >'error' If only. When installing W'95(fh) Tuesday, the only thing I did get was a beep and a black rectangle on the installation-screen. Met groeten, | Jan van den Broek | balglaas@xs4all.nl | ----------------------------------------+--------------------------------------- | make it so | Make: don't know how to make it. Stop. | ###### From: ulric@evelin.edu.stockholm.se (Ulric Eriksson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 2 Jan 1998 16:27:38 GMT Organization: Chez Ulric Lines: 22 Message-ID: <68j4hq$1g$1@home.edu.stockholm.se> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: evelin.edu.stockholm.se Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!192.71.180.34.MISMATCH!mn6.swip.net!seunet!news2.swip.net!news.edu.stockholm.se!home.edu.stockholm.se!evelin.edu.stockholm.se!ulric In article <863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org>, Simon Oke wrote: >"tim" writes: > >> Microsoft error code would be: >> >> 'error' > >You mean: >" >An application error has occured. > >The command completed successfully. >" Or just "The command completed successfully", which was all the Lan Mangler drivers would say no matter what. Ulric -- "Newbies, and even experts are not able to grasp your brilliance. They sit in awe and wonder. Do I hear angels singing?" ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 20:25:53 GMT Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com Lines: 30 Message-ID: <34ad2fb6.3258905@news.vip.net> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <68ia4e$7d8$1@xs2.xs4all.nl> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 29436@204.209.212.46 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.wildstar.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Jan van den Broek wrote: >"tim" writes: > >>Microsoft error code would be: > >>'error' > >If only. When installing W'95(fh) Tuesday, the only thing I did get was a >beep and a black rectangle on the installation-screen. Do you by any chance have a BIOS feature enabled that queries boot sector writes? If it doesn't understand graphics mode and simply assumes the screen is in text mode, this could happen. If so, turn off the feature and try again. I won't argue that Windows 95 may be responsible for much of the evil in the world, but not ALL of it. ObAFC: (Bashing Microsoft is part of computer folklore.) When bashing Microsoft (or anyone else), make sure you're correct first. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko C Pronunciation Guide: y=x++; "wye equals ex plus plus semicolon" x=x++; "ex equals ex doublecross semicolon" ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 3 Jan 1998 15:33:48 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 15 Message-ID: <68llos$8sd@top.mitre.org> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <68ia4e$7d8$1@xs2.xs4all.nl> <34ad2fb6.3258905@news.vip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!18.24.4.11!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) writes: > ObAFC: (Bashing Microsoft is part of computer folklore.) When >bashing Microsoft (or anyone else), make sure you're correct first. What's this? Are you seriously suggesting that _F_A_C_T_S_ should be allowed to intrude into the postings on this USENET newsgroup (or any other newsgroup for that matter)? Why, if that radical concept should ever be allowed to become a common practice then someone might actually find USENET material to be a Reliable Source! Joe Morris Today is Saturday, 3 January 1998. It's 727 days to the year 2000; do you know where your Y2K bugs are? ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.nospam (remove .nospam) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 04 Jan 1998 23:35:21 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <68ia4e$7d8$1@xs2.xs4all.nl> <34a d2fb6.3258905@news.vip.net> <68llos$8sd@top.mitre.org> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes in his Sig: >Today is Saturday, 3 January 1998. It's 727 days to the year 2000; do >you know where your Y2K bugs are? I will know it in -35773 ( [20]00*365 - ([19]98*365+3) ) days :-) -- Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.nospam (remove .nospam), http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: hoh@approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Subject: Re: Error code Message-ID: <1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> Originator: hoh@approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Sender: hoh@lorelei.approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Organization: [1] + 5934 done /bin/rm -rf ~/ & X-No-Archive: yes X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test60 (5 October 1997) References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:23:30 GMT Lines: 31 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!192.71.180.34.MISMATCH!mn6.swip.net!seunet!mn4.swip.net!lorelei!not-for-mail In article <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com>, John Ruschmeyer wrote: > The best Microsoft error message/dialog I've ever seen was the one I got > when running IE 3.X under Wabi. The application would start and then > give me an Alert dialog (exclamation point) with no text. I've had a NT 4 system forced onto me (used to download software into an embedded system) and I get this every time the screen saver is about to blank the screen: +----------------------------------------------+ |# Application Error X| +----------------------------------------------+ | | | caused a Stack Fault in | | module |`)00C7:4394~|w| will close. | | | | +-------+ | | | Close | | | +-------+ | +----------------------------------------------+ Even though this message probably is perfectly understandable to a NT user, as an Unix user I have to say I'm clueless about what NT is asking me to do... -- Goran Larsson hoh AT approve DOT se I was an atheist, http://home1 DOT swipnet DOT se/%7Ew-12153/ until I found out I was God. ###### From: rhurd@lucent.com (Richard Hurd) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Followup-To: alt.folklore.computers Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 19:53:07 GMT Organization: Lucent Microelectronics Lines: 34 Message-ID: <68rdn3$1kc_002@micro.lucent.com> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pai820rhurd.micro.lucent.com X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.206.0.75!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!iagnet.net!198.6.0.23!uunet!in5.uu.net!nntphub.cb.lucent.com!alrah2 In article <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com>, jruschme@ems.att.com wrote: >Simon Oke wrote: >> >> "tim" writes: >> >> > Microsoft error code would be: >> > >> > 'error' >> >> You mean: >> " >> An application error has occured. >> >> The command completed successfully. >> " > >The best Microsoft error message/dialog I've ever seen was the one I got >when running IE 3.X under Wabi. The application would start and then >give me an Alert dialog (exclamation point) with no text. I remember an error code from IBM's ISPF Edit Macro facility that went something like "A command after an END or NOP instruction was not be executed." I've gotten the Harlan Ellison error message myself. I also like the one I used to get infrequently when beta testing Visual FoxPro: a single word "Help!" in a monster sized dialog box and an "OK" button. Richard Hurd A host is a host from coast to coast Lucent Microelectronics And nobody talks to a host that's close Allentown PA Unless the host that isn't close +1-610-712-8044 Is busy, hung or dead ###### From: daolath@news1.mnsinc.com (Mike Williams) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 6 Jan 1998 03:40:53 GMT Organization: Monumental Network Systems Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> Reply-To: daolath@mnsinc.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.55.11.75 X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.2.1 BETA OS/2) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.229.87.25!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-sea-19.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.55.3.16!news2.mnsinc.com!news1.mnsinc.com!daolath On 1 Jan 1998 07:47:28 GMT, D. Peschel wrote: >Quite a while ago, I saw a mesasge suggesting that compiler errors should >look more like fortune-cookie fortunes. > >-- Derek Years ago I read somewhere about a C compiler that gave error messages like "This is not a typewriter" and "You're going to hell for this coding style" and "You're probably a FORTRAN programmer, aren't you?" or some such silliness. Does anybody out there in 'net-land remember hearing about this compiler, or where it might be available? -- -Mike Williams http://www.mnsinc.com/daolath/index.html I can also be reached at work: mike.williams@swift.com ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:44:54 +0100 Message-ID: From: peterk@combo.ganesha.com (Dr. Peter Kittel) Subject: Re: Error code Reply-To: peterk @ combo.ganesha.com References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> X-Newsreader: rn7.bas Lines: 21 Organization: Private Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.nacamar.de!blackbush.xlink.net!ganesha.ganesha.com!shorter!combo.ganesha.com!peterk In article <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> dpeschel@u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) writes: >In article , >Jordin Kare wrote: > >>Or perhaps the interpretation of error messages is now >>a new class of fortune-telling, along with tea leaves and the I Ching: >>"You received two 'file not found' errors followed by 'abort, retry, fail' -- >>you will soon receive money from a stranger." > >Actually, I think the I Ching versions of error messages would look like: > > Hesitation. Above, drought. The valley is barren. Still nothing surpasses the original Amiga's "Guru Meditation" error numbers. In many one's eyes it was a sign of decline when they changed that message text. -- Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // http://www.pios.de of PIOS Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ office: peterk @ pios.de Still big newsfeed problems causing long delays. ###### From: tsw@cagent.com (Tom Watson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:22:03 -0800 Organization: CagEnt, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: alfred.cagent.com Cache-Post-Path: alfred.cagent.com!unknown@cypher.cagent.com Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.sfba.home.net!cypher.cagent.com!user In article , daolath@mnsinc.com wrote: > On 1 Jan 1998 07:47:28 GMT, D. Peschel wrote: > >Quite a while ago, I saw a mesasge suggesting that compiler errors should > >look more like fortune-cookie fortunes. > > > >-- Derek > > Years ago I read somewhere about a C compiler that gave error messages > like "This is not a typewriter" and "You're going to hell for this coding > style" and "You're probably a FORTRAN programmer, aren't you?" or some > such silliness. Does anybody out there in 'net-land remember hearing about > this compiler, or where it might be available? > What one needs is a program (similar to lint) that comments on the "style" of code. It could make ALL sorts of snide remarks. Brace style, use of pointers, casts (overuse). You feed it a syntactically correct program, and it disects it. For the c.l.c readers, it trips up on "void main" constructs. Doesn't exist (yet). (*SIGH*) -- tsw@cagent.com (Home: tsw@johana.com) Please forward spam to: annagram@hr.house.gov (my Congressman), I do. ###### From: alexg@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Alex Greenbank) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 6 Jan 1998 22:07:16 GMT Organization: Sirius Cybernetics Corporation Lines: 25 Message-ID: <68u9uk$jvs$2@probity.mcc.ac.uk> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: jumper.mcc.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!158.43.192.17!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!server1.netnews.ja.net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!alexg Tom Watson (tsw@cagent.com) wrote: : In article , daolath@mnsinc.com wrote: : What one needs is a program (similar to lint) that comments on the "style" : of code. It could make ALL sorts of snide remarks. : Brace style, use of pointers, casts (overuse). You feed it a : syntactically correct program, and it disects it. For the c.l.c readers, : it trips up on : "void main" constructs. : Doesn't exist (yet). (*SIGH*) You know, right now, there will be c.l.c readers sitting down, thinking about this, starting to hack code up, laughing inanely to themselves and scribbling down the snide remarks... pedant# csnide bob.c CSNIDE:bob.c:3:Urgh, One True Brace style. What's wrong with Allman? CSNIDE:bob.c:130:What the hell kind of variable name is 'this_is_a_pointer'? CSNIDE:bob.c:200:void main(void). RTFM. Lets just hope that anyone who writes it runs their own source through it. -Alex (alexg@jumper.mcc.ac.uk) ###### From: Ben Hutchings Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 7 Jan 1998 07:45:16 -0000 Organization: Not organised Lines: 24 Sender: womble@max90.public.ox.ac.uk Message-ID: <68vbqc$ug$1@max90.public.ox.ac.uk> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: max90.public.ox.ac.uk Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server5.netnews.ja.net!server3.netnews.ja.net!news.ox.ac.uk!not-for-mail In article , Tom Watson wrote: >What one needs is a program (similar to lint) that comments on the "style" >of code. It could make ALL sorts of snide remarks. > >Brace style, use of pointers, casts (overuse). You feed it a >syntactically correct program, and it disects it. For the c.l.c readers, >it trips up on >"void main" constructs. It's not just bad in theory. On the Amiga, scripts will fail if the return code of any command is greater than the current "fail level". If main is declared void then the command will return a random value, which usually terminates a script. Certain Amiga *OS* programmers had the habit of using void main in their example code. Therefore SAS/C on the Amiga (the compiler used by Commodore-Amiga) specifically checks for void main and makes it really return 0. -- Ben Hutchings, M&CS student | Jay Miner Society website: http://www.jms.org/ email/finger m95bwh@ecs.ox.ac.uk | homepage http://users.ox.ac.uk/~worc0223/ Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers. - Leonard Brandwein ###### From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 7 Jan 1998 13:49:29 GMT Organization: The MITRE Corporation Lines: 20 Message-ID: <690159$jj3@top.mitre.org> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <68u9uk$jvs$2@probity.mcc.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: mwunix.mitre.org Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!world!blanket.mitre.org!news.mitre.org!mwunix!jcmorris alexg@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Alex Greenbank) writes: >Tom Watson (tsw@cagent.com) wrote: >: daolath@mnsinc.com wrote: >: What one needs is a program (similar to lint) that comments on the "style" >: of code. It could make ALL sorts of snide remarks. >: Doesn't exist (yet). (*SIGH*) But all that needs to be done is to write a program to emulate any member of the class "computer lab instructor". (And yes, I was one back in the 1960s...) >Lets just hope that anyone who writes it runs their own source through it. You're dreaming. Joe Morris ###### From: genew@vip.net (Gene Wirchenko) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 17:34:51 GMT Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com Lines: 44 Message-ID: <34b3369a.9169217@news.vip.net> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <68u9uk$jvs$2@probity.mcc.ac.uk> Reply-To: genew@vip.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 11213@204.209.212.14 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!zebra.gi.net!newsfeed.inetnebr.com!news.enteract.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!globalcenter0!news.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail alexg@jumper.mcc.ac.uk (Alex Greenbank) wrote: >Tom Watson (tsw@cagent.com) wrote: >: In article , daolath@mnsinc.com wrote: > >: What one needs is a program (similar to lint) that comments on the "style" >: of code. It could make ALL sorts of snide remarks. > >: Brace style, use of pointers, casts (overuse). You feed it a >: syntactically correct program, and it disects it. For the c.l.c readers, >: it trips up on >: "void main" constructs. > >: Doesn't exist (yet). (*SIGH*) > >You know, right now, there will be c.l.c readers sitting down, thinking >about this, starting to hack code up, laughing inanely to themselves >and scribbling down the snide remarks... No, but I am smiling! >pedant# csnide bob.c >CSNIDE:bob.c:3:Urgh, One True Brace style. What's wrong with Allman? >CSNIDE:bob.c:130:What the hell kind of variable name is 'this_is_a_pointer'? >CSNIDE:bob.c:200:void main(void). RTFM. CSNIDE:bob.c:330:Haven't you ever heard of function prototypes? CSNIDE:bob.c:415:"//" is for murderers or C++ programmers. This is C. CSNIDE:bob.c:514:Opaque preprocessor trick. Functions ARE legal. CSNIDE:bob.c:625:str* is reserved for those smarter than you. CSNIDE:bob.c:698:StUdLyCaPs are bogus! CSNIDE:bob.c:711:x=x++ is undefined - formatting system volume. and a last one for Peter Seebach: CSNIDE:bob.c:802:I don't care about Schildt's nonsense! >Lets just hope that anyone who writes it runs their own source through it. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko C Pronunciation Guide: y=x++; "wye equals ex plus plus semicolon" x=x++; "ex equals ex doublecross semicolon" ###### From: hnsngr@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:13:26 -0800 Organization: ErsteSoft Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-asft04--103.sirius.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.3.1 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!newshub.sirius.com!newsfiler.sirius.com!hnsngr In article , bhahn@transoft.mangle.net (unmangle address to reply) wrote: > "Code generator out of control!" I used a development version of MPW C at > Apple for a while that would spit that out from time to time. It had some > other funny messages, but that's the only one I recall. The one I liked was: ## Compilation aborted: too many errors. (Make fewer!) -Ron Hunsinger ###### From: jra@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us (Jay R. Ashworth) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 8 Jan 1998 03:32:04 GMT Organization: Ashworth & Associates Lines: 26 Message-ID: <691hbk$r32$1@news.usf.edu> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news1.usf.edu!jra On 1 Jan 1998 09:29:53 GMT, tim wrote: > Microsoft error code would be: > 'error' No, you've missed it: There would also be a button to press for Details, and when you press it, you'd get this message: "The program you are running encountered an error in it's execution. It cannot continue. Click "OK" to exit." If you're _really_ lucky, it might include a message like "XJ928375401", which you can't do anything with because it's not in the manual, not in the Resource Kit , not in the Knowless Base, and even the coders wouldn't remember anymore what it meant, if you could get them on the phone. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Unsolicited Commercial Emailers Sued The Suncoast Freenet "Two words: Darth Doogie." -- Jason Colby, Tampa Bay, Florida on alt.fan.heinlein +1 813 790 7592 ###### From: Mike Tomlinson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:12:45 +0000 Organization: The Pub Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com> <1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> Reply-To: Mike Tomlinson NNTP-Posting-Host: jasper.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: jasper.demon.co.uk [158.152.101.230] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 beta 7 Lines: 25 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!jasper.demon.co.uk!jasper In article <1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se>, Goran Larsson writes >+----------------------------------------------+ >|# Application Error X| >+----------------------------------------------+ >| | >| caused a Stack Fault in | >| module |`)00C7:4394~|w| will close. | >| | >| +-------+ | >| | Close | | >| +-------+ | >+----------------------------------------------+ > >Even though this message probably is perfectly understandable to >a NT user, as an Unix user I have to say I'm clueless about what >NT is asking me to do... Translation: install Linux. -- Mike Tomlinson +++ Divide by cucumber error. Please reinstall universe and reboot +++ ###### From: Mike Tomlinson Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:15:01 +0000 Organization: The Pub Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> Reply-To: Mike Tomlinson NNTP-Posting-Host: jasper.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: jasper.demon.co.uk [158.152.101.230] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 beta 7 Lines: 16 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!jasper.demon.co.uk!jasper In article , Ron Hunsinger writes >The one I liked was: > >## Compilation aborted: too many errors. (Make fewer!) On the old Acorn BBC "B" computer, RENUMBER 0,0 gave the error: Silly -- Mike Tomlinson +++ Divide by cucumber error. Please reinstall universe and reboot +++ ###### From: dcranfor@SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMliveoak.com (David Cranford) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:59:13 GMT Organization: Live Oak Software, Inc. Lines: 17 Message-ID: <34c3e7b2.27086788@news.wco.com> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fhmg$l2k$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com> <68rdn3$1kc_002@micro.lucent.com> Reply-To: dcranfor@SPAMSPAMSPAMSPAMliveoak.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.21.31.30 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!news.ncal.verio.com!not-for-mail Meanwhile, back at the ranch, rhurd@lucent.com (Richard Hurd) wrote: > >I also like the one I used to get infrequently when beta testing Visual >FoxPro: a single word "Help!" in a monster sized dialog box and an "OK" >button. > All of the beta (and most of the live) versions of Foxware I've ever seen (from FoxBase right on up to VFP 3.0) occasionally generated a FATAL ERROR #6 WHILE ATTEMPTING TO REPORT FATAL ERROR #6 David Cranford Live Oak Software, Inc. Its opinions are mine. Perform a spamectomy on my return address. ###### From: Russell Bornschlegel Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:01:40 -0800 Organization: Captivation Digital Laboratories Lines: 34 Message-ID: <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com> <1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> Reply-To: kaleja@rahul.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 6317@207.213.215.37 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!nntp.flash.net!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Mike Tomlinson wrote: > > In article <1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se>, Goran Larsson > writes > > >+----------------------------------------------+ > >|# Application Error X| > >+----------------------------------------------+ > >| | > >| caused a Stack Fault in | > >| module |`)00C7:4394~|w| will close. | > >| | > >| +-------+ | > >| | Close | | > >| +-------+ | > >+----------------------------------------------+ > > > >Even though this message probably is perfectly understandable to > >a NT user, as an Unix user I have to say I'm clueless about what > >NT is asking me to do... It's asking you to hit the close button, swear, and run the app over again. The message means "segmentation violation: core dumped" or whatever your preferred Unix dialect says in place of that. > Translation: install Linux. Yes, most Unix-family OSs have automated away the step of hitting the close button, and simply write 8MB of crap to the disk. Much more useful. Really. -Russell Bornschlegel ###### From: newcomer@flounder.com (Joseph M. Newcomer) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:38:06 GMT Organization: Pittsburgh OnLine, Inc. Lines: 35 Message-ID: <34d626ef.9688424@206.210.64.12> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com> <1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp14.s8.pgh.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!204.186.110.126.MISMATCH!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!fastnet!news.pgh.net!not-for-mail Yes, I agree. Unix is so much clearer segment fault at 03C4756 traceback 04FF7C2 00C1244 031726B On Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:12:45 +0000, Mike Tomlinson wrote: >In article <1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se>, Goran Larsson > writes > >>+----------------------------------------------+ >>|# Application Error X| >>+----------------------------------------------+ >>| | >>| caused a Stack Fault in | >>| module |`)00C7:4394~|w| will close. | >>| | >>| +-------+ | >>| | Close | | >>| +-------+ | >>+----------------------------------------------+ >> >>Even though this message probably is perfectly understandable to >>a NT user, as an Unix user I have to say I'm clueless about what >>NT is asking me to do... > >Translation: install Linux. Joseph M. Newcomer newcomer@flounder.com http://www3.pgh.net/~newcomer ###### From: cs1cl@stoat.shef.ac.uk (C Lamb) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 21 Jan 1998 13:32:01 GMT Organization: Sheffield University, UK Lines: 19 Message-ID: <6a4tch$mhg$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> Reply-To: cs1cl@nO-Spam.shef.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: stoat.shef.ac.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server5.netnews.ja.net!news.shef.ac.uk!stoat!cs1cl Russell Bornschlegel (kaleja@rahul.net) wrote: : The message means "segmentation violation: core dumped" or : whatever your preferred Unix dialect says in place of that. : > Translation: install Linux. : Yes, most Unix-family OSs have automated away the step of hitting : the close button, and simply write 8MB of crap to the disk. Much : more useful. Really. Obviously written by someone who doesn't know that the size of the core dump isn't it's true size or the value of the `coredumpsize' parameter in limits :) cj : -Russell Bornschlegel ###### From: "Benz" Subject: Re: Error code Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> Message-ID: <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.3.250.107 Date: 21 Jan 98 14:00:54 GMT Lines: 25 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!198.190.226.3!pgh.nauticom.net!207.3.250.107 Unix basher alert! Yeah, a core dump IS much more useful than the bullshit error messages given by NT - if you're a programmer, you can actually ANALYSE the core with the debugger to find out WHY the program crashed. That, for you NT ignoramuses, is what the core is FOR. And besides, when a Unix process crashes, it DOESN'T usually mean 'boot the entire system', simply 'the programmer is a bozo'. Russell Bornschlegel wrote in article <34C510B4.718@rahul.net>... > Mike Tomlinson wrote: > > It's asking you to hit the close button, swear, and run the app > over again. > > The message means "segmentation violation: core dumped" or > whatever your preferred Unix dialect says in place of that. > > > Translation: install Linux. > > Yes, most Unix-family OSs have automated away the step of hitting > the close button, and simply write 8MB of crap to the disk. Much > more useful. Really. > > -Russell Bornschlegel > ###### From: Marco S Hyman Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 21 Jan 1998 14:07:30 -0800 Organization: S.N.A.F.U. (www.snafu.org) Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dumbcat.codewright.com X-Trace: 885420450 10461 (none) 206.86.0.12 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.156.128.20!news1.best.com!nntp2.ba.best.com!not-for-mail Terry Richards writes: > 5) If I were a "Unix basher" I might suggest that Unix programmers don't > understand the difference between debug and release builds because > nobody ever releases any end-user applications for Unix. Of course, I'm > way too much of a nice guy to say anything like that . Ahhh. Some UNIX (and dos/win/nt/whatever) programmers understand enough about Heisenberg to know that the act of instrumenting a program for debug/diagnostics changes the program, often so much that underlying problems display drastically different symptoms. For that reason some end-user applications are shipped with debug/diagnostics so the code that passed regression tests is the same code that the customer uses. Of course real applications are shipped in source form so the customer has the option of changing/fixing the application. // marc ###### Message-ID: <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> From: Terry Richards Reply-To: trs@idt.net Organization: Terry Richards Software X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 36 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:54:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-14.ts-1.hp.idt.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:54:27 EST Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.idt.net!news.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Benz wrote: > > Unix basher alert! Yeah, a core dump IS much more useful than the > bullshit error messages given by NT - if you're a programmer, you can > actually ANALYSE the core with the debugger to find out WHY the program > crashed. That, for you NT ignoramuses, is what the core is FOR. And > besides, when a Unix process crashes, it DOESN'T usually mean 'boot the > entire system', simply 'the programmer is a bozo'. > 1) The original message contained "module " which implies the stack is munged. It is unlikely that a core dump (or any other after-the-fact diagnostic) is going to be much use in this case. 2) NT/MSVC provides perfectly good diagnostic capabilities when the program is a debug build. Such capabilities aren't much use in a release build. 3) It is *extremely* rare for an errant NT application to bring down the system. It is possible but it is also possible in Unix. Win 95 is another story... 4) In the Windows world, end users aren't required to be programmers and aren't expected to be able to read core dumps. 5) If I were a "Unix basher" I might suggest that Unix programmers don't understand the difference between debug and release builds because nobody ever releases any end-user applications for Unix. Of course, I'm way too much of a nice guy to say anything like that . -- Terry Richards Terry Richards Software ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: hoh@approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Subject: Re: Error code Message-ID: <1998Jan21.214416.3936@lorelei.approve.se> Originator: hoh@approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Sender: hoh@lorelei.approve.se.NO_JUNK_EMAIL (Goran Larsson) Organization: [1] + 5934 done /bin/rm -rf ~/ & X-No-Archive: yes X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test60 (5 October 1997) References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:44:16 GMT Lines: 69 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed2.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!masternews.telia.net!fci-se!fci!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!192.71.180.34.MISMATCH!mn6.swip.net!seunet!mn4.swip.net!lorelei!not-for-mail In article <34C510B4.718@rahul.net>, Russell Bornschlegel wrote: | Mike Tomlinson wrote: | > | > In article <1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se>, Goran Larsson | > writes | > | > >+----------------------------------------------+ | > >|# Application Error X| | > >+----------------------------------------------+ | > >| | | > >| caused a Stack Fault in | | > >| module |`)00C7:4394~|w| will close. | | > >| | | > >| +-------+ | | > >| | Close | | | > >| +-------+ | | > >+----------------------------------------------+ | > > | > >Even though this message probably is perfectly understandable to | > >a NT user, as an Unix user I have to say I'm clueless about what | > >NT is asking me to do... | | It's asking you to hit the close button, swear, and run the app | over again. That I am supposed to hit the close button I can understand. There is, however, no need to run the application again as no application is missing and the message appears exactly 10 minutes after using the damn thing. It so happens that the screen saver is supposed to blank (blank, no stupid fireworks or cartoons) the screen. Due to this I have assumed that the error has something to do with the built in screen saver in NT. The funny thing is that at the same time that the screen saver started acting funny, the NT ftp daemon (services, ow whatever NT calls daemons) stopped working. The client can log in and request a file. A couple of kB into the file, NT just kicks out the client. My solution was to install a third party ftp daemon to fix that problem (and solve some other problems we had with the NT ftp daemon at the same time.) | The message means "segmentation violation: core dumped" or | whatever your preferred Unix dialect says in place of that. No. My interpretation is that it means: "segmentation violation - no core dumped. Ha!" | > Translation: install Linux. No can do. I only have this f*****g tou system to run the Tornado developement system for VxWorks. Everything else at this office is done on SunOS or SGI IRIX. The NT system is out of here as soon as I don't have any need for it. Btw, does anyone know what the message caused a Stack Fault in module |`)00C7:4394~|w| will close. was supposed to look like? The space before "caused" should probably be the program name, the should be the module name (what is a module in NT? Part of a DLL?) The 00C7:4394 is clearly a segmented address (didn't NT get rid of the segments?), but what is "|`)" and "~|w|"? -- Goran Larsson hoh AT approve DOT se I was an atheist, http://home1 DOT swipnet DOT se/%7Ew-12153/ until I found out I was God. ###### From: bjr6@freenet.tlh.fl.us (Benjamin Robinson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:26:16 GMT Organization: Bandwidth Wasters, Intl. Lines: 33 Message-ID: <34c681c3.4607982@198.69.104.3> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net> <863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com> <1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34d626ef.9688424@206.210.64.12> NNTP-Posting-Host: max-roc2-86.digital.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.ysu.edu!usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.229.87.25!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!198.69.104.3!ddi2.digital.net!not-for-mail In "Re: Error code," Joseph M. Newcomer wrote: >Yes, I agree. Unix is so much clearer > >segment fault at 03C4756 >traceback > 04FF7C2 > 00C1244 > 031726B VMS produces a similar traceback output, but it was a little more useful: Address Line Module 947F8361 35 RoutineC C345D239 110 RoutineB D1103EFF 68 RoutineA It's been several years since I've intensively used VMS, so this example may not be precisely correct. My point, though, is that the traceback would provide the address, source code line, and routine name where the error occurred. Then it would provide the source line in the calling routine, from where the faulting routine was called. Then, it would travel up the call stack until the "root" routine was found. The line and module information could be omitted if it wasn't available (and it usually wasn't for system calls and the like.) Admittedly, this wasn't helpful for the end user, but it could come in mighty handy for the programmer. -- Benjamin Robinson bjr6@freenet.tlh.fl.us This message may or may not contain sarcastic content; your burden to decide Your spam has become tiresome. Add 1 to username to reply by e-mail "He had a lot to say. He had a lot of nothing to say." - Tool ###### From: spam@lisardrock.demon.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:14:40 GMT Message-ID: <885435280.2103.2.nnrp-09.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> References: <6a4tch$mhg$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: lisardrock.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: lisardrock.demon.co.uk [158.152.238.104] X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 Lines: 22 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!lisardrock.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1998-01-21 cs1cl@nO-Spam.shef.ac.uk said: -Russell Bornschlegel (kaleja@rahul.net) wrote: -: Yes, most Unix-family OSs have automated away the step of hitting -: the close button, and simply write 8MB of crap to the disk. Much -: more useful. Really. -Obviously written by someone who doesn't know that the size of the -core dump isn't it's true size or the value of the `coredumpsize' -parameter in limits :) and we find that creating a zero-length file called "core" in the approrpiate directory with no permissions squashes that tendency too. (we don't have to be a unix programmer at work, and disk space is precious.) -- Communa - all at lisardrock.demon.net to be sure we read your reply, send to username `communa' Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive ###### From: tsw@cagent.com (Tom Watson) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:20:04 -0800 Organization: CagEnt, Inc. Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: <6a4tch$mhg$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <885435280.2103.2.nnrp-09.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: alfred.cagent.com Cache-Post-Path: alfred.cagent.com!unknown@cypher.cagent.com Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.sfba.home.net!cypher.cagent.com!user In article <885435280.2103.2.nnrp-09.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk>, spam@lisardrock.demon.co.uk wrote: > On 1998-01-21 cs1cl@nO-Spam.shef.ac.uk said: > -Russell Bornschlegel (kaleja@rahul.net) wrote: > -: Yes, most Unix-family OSs have automated away the step of hitting > -: the close button, and simply write 8MB of crap to the disk. Much > -: more useful. Really. > > -Obviously written by someone who doesn't know that the size of the > -core dump isn't it's true size or the value of the `coredumpsize' > -parameter in limits :) > > and we find that creating a zero-length file called "core" in the > approrpiate directory with no permissions squashes that tendency too. > (we don't have to be a unix programmer at work, and disk space is > precious.) > This is a nice idea, I've even used it myself: $ rm core # if required, usually because you found a 'biggie'. $ touch core $ chmod 0 core It works wonders. Then you do your work, and all is well. Well, sort of, the system administrator has a weekly cron job whose task is to find old, stale core files. Yours qualifies, being of zero length, and no permissions, and setup long ago. One of two things happens, you get a nastygram via email saying "why do you have an old core file", or the administrator just deletes the file anyway, removing any hope of its effectiveness. I had the first happen. I explained the reasoning. I think he understood. I really wasn't sure, but I was never confronted again. Live & learn. -- tsw@cagent.com (Home: tsw@johana.com) Please forward spam to: annagram@hr.house.gov (my Congressman), I do. ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: "John D. Burleson" Subject: Re: Error code X-Nntp-Posting-Host: help.stl.mo.boeing.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------990502CDCE293D76803F2815" Message-ID: <34C7A1E5.414BA076@boeing.com> Sender: nntp@news.boeing.com (Boeing NNTP News Access) Organization: The Boeing Company - McDonnell Douglas - Huntsville Division References: <6a4tch$mhg$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <885435280.2103.2.nnrp-09.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:45:41 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) Lines: 78 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!ais.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!xyzzy!nntp This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------990502CDCE293D76803F2815 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Watson wrote: > > In article <885435280.2103.2.nnrp-09.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk>, > spam@lisardrock.demon.co.uk wrote: > > > On 1998-01-21 cs1cl@nO-Spam.shef.ac.uk said: > > -Russell Bornschlegel (kaleja@rahul.net) wrote: > > -: Yes, most Unix-family OSs have automated away the step of hitting > > -: the close button, and simply write 8MB of crap to the disk. Much > > -: more useful. Really. > > > > -Obviously written by someone who doesn't know that the size of the > > -core dump isn't it's true size or the value of the `coredumpsize' > > -parameter in limits :) > > > > and we find that creating a zero-length file called "core" in the > > approrpiate directory with no permissions squashes that tendency too. > > (we don't have to be a unix programmer at work, and disk space is > > precious.) > > > > This is a nice idea, I've even used it myself: > $ rm core # if required, usually because you found a 'biggie'. > $ touch core > $ chmod 0 core > It works wonders. Then you do your work, and all is well. Well, sort of, > the system administrator has a weekly cron job whose task is to find old, > stale core files. Yours qualifies, being of zero length, and no > permissions, and setup long ago. One of two things happens, you get a > nastygram via email saying "why do you have an old core file", or the > administrator just deletes the file anyway, removing any hope of its > effectiveness. > > I had the first happen. I explained the reasoning. I think he > understood. I really wasn't sure, but I was never confronted again. > > Live & learn. > > -- > tsw@cagent.com (Home: tsw@johana.com) > Please forward spam to: annagram@hr.house.gov (my Congressman), I do. Creating an empty directory named "core" prevents the large file problem and is usually not bothered by the cron jobs either. -- John Burleson (mailto:john.d.burleson@boeing.com) Principal Software Engineer The Boeing Company/McDonnell Douglas Aerospace/Huntsville (205)922-7589 FAX:(205)922-4890 --------------990502CDCE293D76803F2815 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Burleson, John Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: John Burleson n: Burleson;John org: The Boeing Co. - McDonnell Douglas Aerospace adr: 689 Discovery Dr.;;MS 32C1;Huntsville;AL;35806-2804;USA email;internet: john.d.burleson@boeing.com title: Principal Software Engineer - System and Technology Development tel;work: 205-922-7589 tel;fax: 205-922-4890 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------990502CDCE293D76803F2815-- ###### From: Ian Stirling <000034C7B56C.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:09:00 GMT Organization: None. Message-ID: <000034C7B56C.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> References: <6a4tch$mhg$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk> <885435280.2103.2.nnrp-09.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> X-Mail2News-User: Send.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk X-Mail2News-Path: post-10.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net!mauve.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 885506039 54 Send.NO_UCE mauve.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971106 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.30 (i486)) X-Note: Anti-UCE in effect, replying should work if you are not UCE'ng X-Warning0: For unsolicited commercial email, sent or causing to be sent to my email address X-Warning1: on this message, I reserve the right to levy a charge for my time and expenses X-Warning2: of up to 100 pounds sterling per message, plus legal, penalty or other costs. Lines: 30 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!mauve.demon.co.uk!000034C7B56C.NO_UCE Tom Watson wrote: : In article <885435280.2103.2.nnrp-09.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk>, : spam@lisardrock.demon.co.uk wrote: :> On 1998-01-21 cs1cl@nO-Spam.shef.ac.uk said: :> -Russell Bornschlegel (kaleja@rahul.net) wrote: :> -: Yes, most Unix-family OSs have automated away the step of hitting :> -: the close button, and simply write 8MB of crap to the disk. Much :> -: more useful. Really. :> :> -Obviously written by someone who doesn't know that the size of the :> -core dump isn't it's true size or the value of the `coredumpsize' :> -parameter in limits :) :> :> and we find that creating a zero-length file called "core" in the : This is a nice idea, I've even used it myself: : $ rm core # if required, usually because you found a 'biggie'. Also, with bash, ulimit -c 0 in startup scripts will work. Probably with other shells too. -- Ian Stirling. Designing a linux PDA, see http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/ ----- ******* If replying by email, check notices in header ******* ----- Money is a powerful aphrodisiac, but flowers work almost as well. Robert A Heinlein. ###### From: tangent@SPAMCATCHER.cyberport.com (Warren Young) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:00:59 GMT Organization: none Lines: 24 Message-ID: <34c8308b.37419886@news.cyberport.com> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 56k46-118.cyberport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!psinntp!vivaldi.inoc.dl.nec.com!news.supernet.net!news.cyberport.com!not-for-mail Terry Richards wrote: >Benz wrote: >> >> Unix basher alert! Yeah, a core dump IS much more useful than the >> bullshit error messages given by NT - if you're a programmer, you can >> actually ANALYSE the core with the debugger to find out WHY the program >> crashed. That, for you NT ignoramuses, is what the core is FOR. And > >2) NT/MSVC provides perfectly good diagnostic capabilities when the >program is a debug build. Such capabilities aren't much use in a release >build. For the UNIX people out there, if a program crashes when a debugger is present, you have the option of loading the debugger with the paused program image, right at the point of failure -- more useful than a core dump, IMHO. Naturally, if debugging info is present, the debugger will show you the specific source statement that caused the problem, allow you to see the stack trace, allow you to inspect variables, etc. = Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent = = Remove the SPAMCATCHER to email. -- Finger me! ###### From: spam@lisardrock.demon.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:57:40 GMT Message-ID: <885589060.26847.2.nnrp-07.9e98ee68@news.demon.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lisardrock.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: lisardrock.demon.co.uk [158.152.238.104] X-Everything: Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 Lines: 37 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!lisardrock.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail On 1998-01-22 tsw@cagent.com(TomWatson) said: -> and we find that creating a zero-length file called "core" in the -> approrpiate directory with no permissions squashes that tendency ->too. (we don't have to be a unix programmer at work, and disk ->space is precious.) -This is a nice idea, I've even used it myself: -$ rm core # if required, usually because you found a 'biggie'. -$ touch core -$ chmod 0 core -It works wonders. Then you do your work, and all is well. Well, -sort of, the system administrator has a weekly cron job whose task -is to find old, stale core files. Yours qualifies, being of zero -length, and no permissions, and setup long ago. One of two things -happens, you get a nastygram via email saying "why do you have an -old core file", or the administrator just deletes the file anyway, -removing any hope of its effectiveness. so you have a line in your .profile that does a "touch core" again. just to be on the safe side. :> -I had the first happen. I explained the reasoning. I think he -understood. I really wasn't sure, but I was never confronted again. -Live & learn. hehe. we just have a sysop who doesn't do things like set up processes to remove core files. ours have been sitting untouched and saving for 6 months now. :> -- Communa - all at lisardrock.demon.net to be sure we read your reply, send to username `communa' Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive ###### From: Rick Kelly Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 24 Jan 1998 03:00:04 GMT Organization: The Man With Ten Cats Lines: 12 Message-ID: <6ablfk$iot@news-central.tiac.net> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <1998Jan21.214416.3936@lorelei.approve.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: toad.rmkhome.com X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970922; i386 NetBSD 1.3] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.nodak.edu!news.sendit.nodak.edu!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!199.0.65.142!news-feed1.tiac.net!news-slave-posterchild1!not-for-mail Goran Larsson wrote: > caused a Stack Fault in > module |`)00C7:4394~|w| will close. Bill Gates repeats this phrase, in a loud voice, when he has an orgasm... -- Rick Kelly rmk@toad.rmkhome.com rmk@rmkhome.com tencats warthog ###### From: msa@gis.gen.il.us (Majdi Abbas) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 26 Jan 1998 01:16:02 GMT Organization: Guardian Information Systems Lines: 71 Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> <34c8308b.37419886@news.cyberport.com> Reply-To: msa@gis.gen.il.us NNTP-Posting-Host: track6.grandcentral.net X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.4.3 UNIX) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!nntp.flash.net!news1.ispnews.com!news8.ispnews.com!msa [Note to reader: in this paragraph he's discussing post-mortem debugging under NT. This is as contrast to the "less useful" core dump --msa] On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:00:59 GMT, tangent@cyberport.com wrote: > For the UNIX people out there, if a program crashes when a debugger is > present, you have the option of loading the debugger with the paused > program image, right at the point of failure -- more useful than a > core dump, IMHO. Naturally, if debugging info is present, the > debugger will show you the specific source statement that caused the > problem, allow you to see the stack trace, allow you to inspect > variables, etc. This is test.c: #include int main() { int a = 5; int b = 0; float c = a/b; exit(0); } The command: polaris:~$ gcc -g -o test test.c Followed by: polaris:~$ ./test Floating point exception (core dumped) polaris:~$ gdb ./test core GDB is free software and you are welcome to distribute copies of it under certain conditions; type "show copying" to see the conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for GDB; type "show warranty" for details. GDB 4.16 (i486-slackware-linux), Copyright 1996 Free Software Foundation, Inc... Core was generated by `./test'. Program terminated with signal 8, Floating point exception. Reading symbols from /lib/libc.so.5...done. Reading symbols from /lib/ld-linux.so.1...done. #0 0x804844a in main () at test.c:6 6 float c = a/b; (gdb) bt #0 0x804844a in main () at test.c:6 #1 0x80483be in ___crt_dummy__ () (gdb) p c $1 = 0 (gdb) p a $2 = 5 (gdb) p b $3 = 0 (gdb) run Starting program: /home/majdi/./test Program received signal SIGFPE, Arithmetic exception. 0x804844a in main () at test.c:6 6 float c = a/b; (gdb) [snip] Now, which functionality did you list that I don't have with a core file? Not a single one. A core file is simply an image of the process at the point of failure -- so the capabilties, at least the one's you've listed, are identical. --Majdi -- Majdi Abbas Coder, Cat5 monkey and admin for hire. "I'm not sure that the ability to create routing diagrams similar to pretzels with mad cow disease is actually a marketable skill." -- Steve Levin ###### From: newcomer@flounder.com (Joseph M. Newcomer) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:20:54 GMT Organization: Pittsburgh OnLine, Inc. Lines: 47 Message-ID: <34f0004f.458620337@206.210.64.12> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp46.s8.pgh.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!fastnet!news.pgh.net!not-for-mail One of the interesting problems about the dynamic NT debugging (debug on demand) vs. the core dump is that when NT enters the debugger, all transient state is maintained, such as open files, open network connections, etc. which cannot be reproduced out of a core dump file. For example, I can force the code to skip the bogus instruction in some way and resume the main loop, and watch what happens dynamically. I can't do this on a post-mortem because the input and output channels are all gone. I spent too many years trying to debug from core dumps of all sorts (including Unix) to want to choose them as a way of life. OTOH, for field maintenance, the fact that NT *can't* dump a core file that could be sent to the maintainer is a significant loser. joe On 21 Jan 98 14:00:54 GMT, "Benz" wrote: >Unix basher alert! Yeah, a core dump IS much more useful than the >bullshit error messages given by NT - if you're a programmer, you can >actually ANALYSE the core with the debugger to find out WHY the program >crashed. That, for you NT ignoramuses, is what the core is FOR. And >besides, when a Unix process crashes, it DOESN'T usually mean 'boot the >entire system', simply 'the programmer is a bozo'. > >Russell Bornschlegel wrote in article ><34C510B4.718@rahul.net>... >> Mike Tomlinson wrote: >> >> It's asking you to hit the close button, swear, and run the app >> over again. >> >> The message means "segmentation violation: core dumped" or >> whatever your preferred Unix dialect says in place of that. >> >> > Translation: install Linux. >> >> Yes, most Unix-family OSs have automated away the step of hitting >> the close button, and simply write 8MB of crap to the disk. Much >> more useful. Really. >> >> -Russell Bornschlegel >> Joseph M. Newcomer newcomer@flounder.com http://www3.pgh.net/~newcomer ###### From: tangent@SPAMCATCHER.cyberport.com (Warren Young) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 05:07:17 GMT Organization: none Lines: 33 Message-ID: <34d51799.143841853@news.cyberport.com> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> <34c8308b.37419886@news.cyberport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 56k65-118.cyberport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.102.31.251!news.cmc.net!feeder.swcp.com!news.cyberport.com!not-for-mail msa@gis.gen.il.us (Majdi Abbas) wrote: > Now, which functionality did you list that I don't have with a core >file? Not a single one. A core file is simply an image of the process at >the point of failure -- so the capabilties, at least the one's you've listed, >are identical. I wasn't too clear in my original post: under NT, when a fatal exception happens, the system pops up a dialog box that more or less says "Shall I kill this program, or do you want to debug it?" If you elect to debug it, the debugger is loaded right at the point of failure. Now, since this debugger is integrated right into the same environment you used to create that program (obviously assuming that the program that crashed was yours), this is extremely convenient. It loads up the source code, with a pointer on the line where the bug happened. You can poke around, try to find the cause of the failure, edit the source code to fix it and recompile the program, all within the same environment. I'll give gdb 10 out of 10 points for power, but only 2 out of 10 for interface, and that's just because it's a mnemonic one that's fast to get around in once you know what you're doing. (I'm a vi fan, FWIW.) By contrast, I give MSVC++ 10 out of 10 for interface -- they've put a _lot_ of thought into making the debugger into a tool that really fits your mind. If you haven't seen it since VC++ 1.x or 2.x, you should seriously take a look at it. I sometimes bash Windows and MFC, but VC++ has one beautiful interface. = Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent = = Remove the SPAMCATCHER to email. -- Finger me! ###### From: Robert Billing Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 08:42:44 GMT Message-ID: <885804164snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> References: <34d51799.143841853@news.cyberport.com> Reply-To: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Mail2News-User: unclebob@tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Mail2News-Path: post-20.mail.demon.net!post.mail.demon.net!tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Trace: mail2news.demon.co.uk 885887430 5536 unclebob tnglwood.demon.co.uk X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29 Lines: 14 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!newsxfer.visi.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!tnglwood.demon.co.uk!unclebob In article <34d51799.143841853@news.cyberport.com> tangent@SPAMCATCHER.cyberport.com "Warren Young" writes: > I'll give gdb 10 out of 10 points for power, but only 2 out of 10 for > interface, and that's just because it's a mnemonic one that's fast to Have you seen the new xxgdb in RedHat 5? -- I am Robert Billing, Christian, inventor, traveller, cook and animal lover, I live near 0:46W 51:22N. http://www.tnglwood.demon.co.uk/ "Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump, Piglet, meet me in transporter room three" ###### From: korpela@islay.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 26 Jan 1998 20:45:08 GMT Organization: Cal Berkeley-- Space Sciences Lab Lines: 18 Message-ID: <6aiskk$89s$1@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <34c8308b.37419886@news.cyberport.com> <34d51799.143841853@news.cyberport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: islay.ssl.berkeley.edu Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!nntp.flash.net!agate!islay.ssl.berkeley.edu!korpela In article <34d51799.143841853@news.cyberport.com>, Warren Young wrote: >I'll give gdb 10 out of 10 points for power, but only 2 out of 10 for >interface, and that's just because it's a mnemonic one that's fast to >get around in once you know what you're doing. Actually recent versions of gdb have windowed interfaces. I use GDB 4.15.2-96q3 (sparc-sun-sunos4.1) which has a built in Tk/Tcl windowed interface. I also use xxgdb and xdbx on other machines. Try gdb again some day. You may find it much improved since you last used it. Eric -- Eric Korpela | An object at rest can never be korpela@ssl.berkeley.edu | stopped. Click here for more info. ###### From: Tanstaafl@?geocities.com (Tanstaafl) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:59:39 GMT Organization: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?The_Royal_Phreakers_Household=AE/_There_ain't_no_such_thin?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?g_as_a_free_lunch?= Lines: 20 Sender: gapc@hn91.pi.net Approved: route@RESENTMENT.INFONEXUS.COM Message-ID: <34e53e6b.20488448@news.xs4all.nl> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: hn91.pi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-XS4ALL-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:00:37 CET X-XS4ALL-User: gapc@xs4all.nl on hn91.pi.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!nntp.abs.net!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!152.158.16.55!newsfeed2.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.adam.ixe.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!xs4all!nestorix2.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail With great joy and love, Terry Richards wrote: Hello Terry Richards, >5) If I were a "Unix basher" I might suggest that Unix programmers don't >understand the difference between debug and release builds because >nobody ever releases any end-user applications for Unix. Of course, I'm >way too much of a nice guy to say anything like that . No they just download the sources and compile them themselves. Much easier. (Wouldn't want to do that with WindowsANYTHING!) -- blaze your trail! David Dune, co-founder of The Royal Phreakers Household Need an RFC??? mailto:info-rphh@*technologist.com?subject=Info+RFC#### Unsolicited commercial email read for $500 per message. ###### From: Tanstaafl@?geocities.com (Tanstaafl) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:59:40 GMT Organization: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?The_Royal_Phreakers_Household=AE/_There_ain't_no_such_thin?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?g_as_a_free_lunch?= Lines: 20 Sender: gapc@hn42.pi.net Approved: route@RESENTMENT.INFONEXUS.COM Message-ID: <34d10391.807677@news.xs4all.nl> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: hn42.pi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-XS4ALL-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:00:42 CET X-XS4ALL-User: gapc@xs4all.nl on hn42.pi.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.ecrc.net!newsfeed2.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.adam.ixe.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!xs4all!nestorix2.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail With great joy and love, Terry Richards wrote: Hello Terry Richards, >5) If I were a "Unix basher" I might suggest that Unix programmers don't >understand the difference between debug and release builds because >nobody ever releases any end-user applications for Unix. Of course, I'm >way too much of a nice guy to say anything like that . No they just download the sources and compile them themselves. Much easier. (Wouldn't want to do that with WindowsANYTHING!) -- blaze your trail! David Dune, co-founder of The Royal Phreakers Household Need an RFC??? mailto:info-rphh@*technologist.com?subject=Info+RFC#### Unsolicited commercial email read for $500 per message. ###### From: tangent@SPAMCATCHER.cyberport.com (Warren Young) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:38:15 GMT Organization: none Lines: 38 Message-ID: <34cd0def.1144495@news.cyberport.com> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <34c8308b.37419886@news.cyberport.com> <34d51799.143841853@news.cyberport.com> <6aiskk$89s$1@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 56k56-118.cyberport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news.he.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.102.31.251!news.cmc.net!feeder.swcp.com!news.cyberport.com!not-for-mail korpela@islay.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) wrote: >In article <34d51799.143841853@news.cyberport.com>, >Warren Young wrote: >>I'll give gdb 10 out of 10 points for power, but only 2 out of 10 for >>interface, and that's just because it's a mnemonic one that's fast to >>get around in once you know what you're doing. > >Actually recent versions of gdb have windowed interfaces. I use >GDB 4.15.2-96q3 (sparc-sun-sunos4.1) which has a built in Tk/Tcl >windowed interface. I also use xxgdb and xdbx on other machines. >Try gdb again some day. You may find it much improved since you last >used it. I last used it (with Tcl/tk interface) six months or so ago. Still butt-ugly, mainly because the X crowd still hasn't agreed on a set of common widgets. Flexibility is one thing, but X is positively limp -- to overextend a the comparison a bit. My all-time favorite: ghostview, with its round button-looking thingies (think Mac for a moment) that, when clicked on, drop the program's menus down. Ye gods.... And no, xxgdb is no better. Hey, much better than the command line, but still missing a lot. I mean, unless I'm missing something, the thing can't even save its breakpoints! (Note, this is not a "power" feature, but a "usability" feature.) Even if it can, it certainly doesn't do it automatically. Chances are, my theory goes, you're gonna want to do something similar this debugging session to what you did in the last one, right? Granted, X can be pretty: Afterstep, Motif and [whatever Sun's using these days, the one with the funky corner resizing thingies] are pretty good looking. But by and large, X is ugly. (Here we go again, asbestos-underwear-test, series 2!) = Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent = = Remove the SPAMCATCHER to email. -- Finger me! ###### Message-ID: <34CD6079.6AD3@idt.net> From: Terry Richards Reply-To: trs@idt.net Organization: Terry Richards Software X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> <34e53e6b.20488448@news.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:19:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-61.ts-1.lwd.idt.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:19:36 EST Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.idt.net!news.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Tanstaafl wrote: > > With great joy and love, Terry Richards wrote: > .... end-user applications ... > > No they just download the sources and compile them themselves. Much > easier. [snip] So now we require end-users to own compilers? This is *exactly* the point I was trying to make. UNIX is for programmers to play with, Windows NT is for people to get some work done. -- Terry Richards Terry Richards Software ###### From: "Benz" Subject: Re: Error code Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> <34e53e6b.20488448@news.xs4all.nl> <34CD6079.6AD3@idt.net> Message-ID: <01bd2b35$51391b40$6bfa03cf@benz2.danet.com> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.3.250.107 Date: 27 Jan 98 15:03:45 GMT Lines: 28 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-dc-3.sprintlink.net!news-dc-1.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.internetmci.com!198.190.226.3!pgh.nauticom.net!207.3.250.107 That's why most of the servers sold in the world last year were Unix machines. Lot of executives with fancy expensive toys out there... That's why most of the servers this year continue to be Unix machines. Nobody wants to get any work done. Terry Richards wrote in article <34CD6079.6AD3@idt.net>... > Tanstaafl wrote: > > > > With great joy and love, Terry Richards wrote: > > > ... end-user applications ... > > > > No they just download the sources and compile them themselves. Much > > easier. [snip] > > So now we require end-users to own compilers? > > This is *exactly* the point I was trying to make. UNIX is for > programmers to play with, Windows NT is for people to get some work > done. > > -- > Terry Richards > Terry Richards Software > ###### From: tangent@SPAMCATCHER.cyberport.com (Warren Young) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:23:03 GMT Organization: none Lines: 26 Message-ID: <34ce08a5.65327866@news.cyberport.com> References: <34d51799.143841853@news.cyberport.com> <885804164snz@tnglwood.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 56k16-118.cyberport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-dc-3.sprintlink.net!news-dc-1.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.102.31.251!news.cmc.net!feeder.swcp.com!news.cyberport.com!not-for-mail Robert Billing wrote: >In article <34d51799.143841853@news.cyberport.com> > tangent@SPAMCATCHER.cyberport.com "Warren Young" writes: > >> I'll give gdb 10 out of 10 points for power, but only 2 out of 10 for >> interface, and that's just because it's a mnemonic one that's fast to > > Have you seen the new xxgdb in RedHat 5? It looks the same as the last time I saw xxgdb, probably a year or less ago. As I've mentioned in other places in this thread, it can't save breakpoints between runs (maybe gdb underneath can), and it has no integration with emacs or vi. (Maybe there's an .el module for emacs to use gdb, but even that wouldn't be on par with a good IDE.) I'm not saying that these tools are horrible or useless, just that they're not as good as the PC ones in many ways. Yes, gdb is worlds better than sdb, and xxgdb is worlds better than gdb, but IMHO Visual C++'s debugger is worlds better than xxgdb. xxgdb is in fact plenty good enough, but that's not to say that it's "finished". Probably emacs 2.0 was plenty good enough, too, if you get my drift. = Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent = = Remove the SPAMCATCHER to email. -- Finger me! ###### From: tangent@SPAMCATCHER.cyberport.com (Warren Young) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:26:22 GMT Organization: none Lines: 27 Message-ID: <34cf0a06.65680733@news.cyberport.com> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> <34e53e6b.20488448@news.xs4all.nl> <34CD6079.6AD3@idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 56k16-118.cyberport.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-dc-3.sprintlink.net!news-dc-1.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.102.31.251!news.cmc.net!feeder.swcp.com!news.cyberport.com!not-for-mail Terry Richards wrote: >Tanstaafl wrote: >> >> With great joy and love, Terry Richards wrote: >> >... end-user applications ... >> >> No they just download the sources and compile them themselves. Much >> easier. [snip] > >So now we require end-users to own compilers? There's no "require" about it -- every decent UNIX comes with a compiler, and even the sites that aren't blessed with decent UNIX get the compiler anyway. It's just considered a necessary part of using UNIX. These days with GNU autoconf and three step install instructions, "1) ../configure; 2) make; 3) make install) compiling programs really isn't outside the reach of the average user. Back when you actually had to understand the C source code to change all the void* references to char* to make cc happy, it was a different story. = Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent = = Remove the SPAMCATCHER to email. -- Finger me! ###### Message-ID: <34CE4280.309D@idt.net> From: Terry Richards Reply-To: trs@idt.net Organization: Terry Richards Software X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> <34e53e6b.20488448@news.xs4all.nl> <34CD6079.6AD3@idt.net> <34cf0a06.65680733@news.cyberport.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 45 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:23:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-10.ts-2.hp.idt.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:23:58 EST Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news.voicenet.com!news.idt.net!news.farm.idt.net!not-for-mail Warren Young wrote: > > Terry Richards wrote: > > >Tanstaafl wrote: > >> > >> With great joy and love, Terry Richards wrote: > >> > >... end-user applications ... > >> > >> No they just download the sources and compile them themselves. Much > >> easier. [snip] > > > >So now we require end-users to own compilers? > > There's no "require" about it -- every decent UNIX comes with a > compiler, and even the sites that aren't blessed with decent UNIX get > the compiler anyway. > It's just considered a necessary part of using UNIX. > Boy, if I'd said that people would be jumping down my throat. > These days with GNU autoconf and three step install instructions, "1) > ./configure; 2) make; 3) make install) compiling programs really isn't > outside the reach of the average user. Back when you actually had to > understand the C source code to change all the void* references to > char* to make cc happy, it was a different story. > All right, I conceed that *some* end-users could compile code. However, this raises a couple of questions: 1) Why should they *have* to? Are car-users required to own (and be able to use) the necessary tools to adjust a fuel injector? Are VCR owners required to own a soldering iron and an osciloscope? How well do you think these items would sell if these tools were required? 2) What would the end user do once he had compiled the code? Should they now be able to interpret the core dump, diagnose the problem with the code, and fix it? If not, what use was it for them to compile the code in the first place? > = Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent > = > = Remove the SPAMCATCHER to email. -- Finger me! -- Terry Richards Terry Richards Software ###### From: skb@xmission.removethis.com (Scott Brown) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 05:03:22 GMT Organization: XMission Internet (801 539 0900) Lines: 35 Message-ID: <34ceb593.166764514@news.xmission.com> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> <34e53e6b.20488448@news.xs4all.nl> <34CD6079.6AD3@idt.net> <34cf0a06.65680733@news.cyberport.com> <34CE4280.309D@idt.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: slc328.modem.xmission.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!198.60.22.3!xmission!not-for-mail On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:23:58 GMT, Terry Richards wrote: >All right, I conceed that *some* end-users could compile code. However, >this raises a couple of questions: > >1) Why should they *have* to? Are car-users required to own (and be able >to use) the necessary tools to adjust a fuel injector? Are VCR owners >required to own a soldering iron and an osciloscope? How well do you >think these items would sell if these tools were required? Car owners *are* required to add fuel and check the tires and oil; VCR owners *are* required to wire the machine into their TV and clean the heads occasionally. Installing Unix software really isn't any more complicated than that! Hell, I'm still a Unix newbie myself, but I don't have any more trouble installing stuff on my FreeBSD machine than I usually do on a Wintel box. I could also point out that, yes, there *are* Unix softwares that are a bear to install, but I've had PC software that took a lot of effort and tweaking to install, too. Which is to say that the quality of installation distributions can vary wildly, no matter what platform they're made for. >2) What would the end user do once he had compiled the code? Should they >now be able to interpret the core dump, diagnose the problem with the >code, and fix it? If not, what use was it for them to compile the code >in the first place? And if a Windows program crashes and burns, what use is it to the user to have a binary distribution and no sources? That amounts to exactly the same thing as having core dumps and sources and not knowing how to use them: You're stuck until you find someone more clueful than yourself to help. -Scott ###### From: Karthik Sheka Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:12:59 -0500 Organization: Physicians Online (via bigfoot.com) Lines: 25 Message-ID: <6aob1q$836@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> <34e53e6b.20488448@news.xs4all.nl> <34CD6079.6AD3@idt.net> <34cf0a06.65680733@news.cyberport.com> <34CE4280.309D@idt.net> Reply-To: K.P.Sheka@bigfoot.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.68.131.47 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-dc-3.sprintlink.net!news-dc-1.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!worldnet.att.net!newsadm Terry Richards wrote: > All right, I conceed that *some* end-users could compile code. However, > this raises a couple of questions: > > 1) Why should they *have* to? Are car-users required to own (and be able > to use) the necessary tools to adjust a fuel injector? Are VCR owners > required to own a soldering iron and an osciloscope? How well do you > think these items would sell if these tools were required? > > 2) What would the end user do once he had compiled the code? Should they > now be able to interpret the core dump, diagnose the problem with the > code, and fix it? If not, what use was it for them to compile the code > in the first place? I don't know about the *have* to bit. However, I would love to compile code on my Win95 machine, just to make sure the code used all the features of my hardware. I mean, a Pentium-200 shouldn't be running the same binary code that can run on a 386-16, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think that there would be a performance increase just by a recompile of Win95 code on the end-user's PC. If the compiler was competent, of course. :-) //Bobby ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 28 Jan 1998 21:54:14 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34C61A4D.22CA@idt.net> <34e53e6b.20488448@news.xs4all.nl> <34CD6079.6AD3@idt.net> <34cf0a06.65680733@news.cyberport.com> <34CE4280.309D@idt.net> <34ceb593.166764514@news.xmission.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:23:58 GMT, Terry Richards wrote: >2) What would the end user do once he had compiled the code? Should they >now be able to interpret the core dump, diagnose the problem with the >code, and fix it? If not, what use was it for them to compile the code >in the first place? skb@xmission.removethis.com (Scott Brown) aswered: >And if a Windows program crashes and burns, what use is it to the user >to have a binary distribution and no sources? That amounts to exactly >the same thing as having core dumps and sources and not knowing how to >use them: You're stuck until you find someone more clueful than >yourself to help. And that is where the available source code comes in: a) it is easier to find a guru who will be able to mend Unix source for you than find a crack who will mend NT binaries. With other words: better worst case behaviour. b) there is a good chance that before you ever see the crash someone else (an early adopter) has seen and mended the problem and sent the correction back. Ergo you will simply see less buggy programs. Never forget: what is good for gurus is good for you, because you directly or indirectly profit from gurus. Make life better for others and they will make it better for you. -- Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch, http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: Mac, 95 and NT users are CLUEless (Command Line User Environment) If I go missing, its once again my newsfeed that has craped ###### From: pgd@algonet.seNOSPAM (Per Lindqvist) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 04:16:48 GMT Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <34e0a1a8.78270651@194.213.69.148> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34f0004f.458620337@206.210.64.12> NNTP-Posting-Host: du239-5.ppp.algonet.se X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/16.235 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:20:54 GMT, newcomer@flounder.com (Joseph M. Newcomer) wrote: >One of the interesting problems about the dynamic NT debugging (debug >on demand) vs. the core dump is that when NT enters the debugger, all >transient state is maintained, such as open files, open network >connections, etc. which cannot be reproduced out of a core dump file. > >For example, I can force the code to skip the bogus instruction in >some way and resume the main loop, and watch what happens dynamically. >I can't do this on a post-mortem because the input and output channels >are all gone. Something similar was also possible with the DEC-10's of the 70's. With the difference, maybe, that you you did not need a special debug version of the program, but it worked on any program. You could even interrupt the program at will, load and enter the debugger, and then continue excution. Somehow the computer industry lost a lot of its techniques during the 80's to be rediscovered as something new during the 90's. -- Per Lindqvist ###### From: pgd@algonet.seNOSPAM (Per Lindqvist) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 04:16:48 GMT Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <34e0a1a8.78270651@194.213.69.148> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <68fnmh$2dr$2@gte2.gte.net><863ej6c2pw.fsf@redcow.flibble.org> <34B10606.15C6@ems.att.com><1998Jan5.182330.18604@lorelei.approve.se> <34C510B4.718@rahul.net> <01bd2675$71cc85a0$6bfa03cf@benz2.danetinc.com> <34f0004f.458620337@206.210.64.12> NNTP-Posting-Host: du239-5.ppp.algonet.se X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/16.235 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:20:54 GMT, newcomer@flounder.com (Joseph M. Newcomer) wrote: >One of the interesting problems about the dynamic NT debugging (debug >on demand) vs. the core dump is that when NT enters the debugger, all >transient state is maintained, such as open files, open network >connections, etc. which cannot be reproduced out of a core dump file. > >For example, I can force the code to skip the bogus instruction in >some way and resume the main loop, and watch what happens dynamically. >I can't do this on a post-mortem because the input and output channels >are all gone. Something similar was also possible with the DEC-10's of the 70's. With the difference, maybe, that you you did not need a special debug version of the program, but it worked on any program. You could even interrupt the program at will, load and enter the debugger, and then continue excution. Somehow the computer industry lost a lot of its techniques during the 80's to be rediscovered as something new during the 90's. -- Per Lindqvist ###### From: dpeschel@u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 12 Feb 1998 03:09:12 GMT Organization: University of Washington, Seattle Lines: 18 Message-ID: <6btp4o$5ft$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <34f0004f.458620337@206.210.64.12> <34e0a1a8.78270651@194.213.69.148> <34e2340a.0@news.wizvax.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: saul4.u.washington.edu X-Trace: nntp4.u.washington.edu 887252952 5629 (None) 140.142.64.7 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: dpeschel Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!howland.erols.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!worldnet.att.net!news.u.washington.edu!dpeschel In article <34e2340a.0@news.wizvax.net>, Richard Shetron wrote: >One of the useful side effects of this is you didn't have to write all >the subroutines to start testing. A call to a nonexistant subroutine >just raised a dynamic link fault and pushed the program on the stack. >You could then write and compile the subroutine and tell the system to >try the call again, which would hopefully work ;) Let me get this straight... you were able to go back to the broken program's context and then add the new subroutine -- right? (As opposed to starting a new context with the new subroutine.) And if you subroutine didn't work, then you were back in the subsidiary shell, I assume (since starting a third shell would have been really confusing). I can see why Emacs took off on Multics. :) -- Derek ###### Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers From: dp@world.std.com (Jeff DelPapa) Subject: Re: Error code Message-ID: Organization: Chaos and Confusion References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <34e0a1a8.78270651@194.213.69.148> <34e2340a.0@news.wizvax.net> <6btp4o$5ft$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:03:54 GMT Lines: 72 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!18.24.4.11!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!world!dp In article <6btp4o$5ft$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu>, D. Peschel wrote: >In article <34e2340a.0@news.wizvax.net>, >Richard Shetron wrote: > >>One of the useful side effects of this is you didn't have to write all >>the subroutines to start testing. A call to a nonexistant subroutine >>just raised a dynamic link fault and pushed the program on the stack. >>You could then write and compile the subroutine and tell the system to >>try the call again, which would hopefully work ;) > >Let me get this straight... you were able to go back to the broken program's >context and then add the new subroutine -- right? (As opposed to starting a >new context with the new subroutine.) And if you subroutine didn't work, then >you were back in the subsidiary shell, I assume (since starting a third shell >would have been really confusing). > In the case of the MIT lisp machines, an error put you in the debugger. From there it was a single gesture to get you into an editor (emacs cousin) buffer, with the pointer at the apropriate bit of source (having figured out what file contained the definition). You would make your fix to the problem function, use a single key cord to compile just the changes you made, which dynamically reloaded (in place re-link) the functions. Another gesture took you back to the debugger, in the context you left it in.. You then had a choice, you could then just restart the function call (it would use the new code, with the old values of the arguments) possibly having climbed up the call stack to a better spot to restart from.. The other option, if you hadn't written the code yet, or the function you replaced had side effects you didn't want to happen twice, but knew what you wanted it to be returning, you could just (single gesture again) chose to return from an arbitrary stack frame, specifing the return values (and you could call arbitrary functions to help you calculate them). The tight link made for real fast develop cycles, and was especially helpful if getting to the point of failure took a couple of hours of cpu time. You could change the code, but not loose any of the intermediate data state, or just fake a correct response until you got around to writing the acutal code. Having fixed the code, and continued execution, you could go back to the editor, and encapsulate the changes you made into a file that could be loaded (automatically if you so chose) into another copy of the program. The file would only contain the functions that changed, not all the stuff in the source file (thus even smaller than your typical .o). This was especially handy if you didn't want some of the changes that got made to other functions that happened to share the source file. Oh yea, this is certainly folklore worthy, this was all in place 20 years ago. Sometimes the "good old days" were actually better. (I won't go into detail on some of the other interesting things, like the file system that did multiple versions, soft delete, and would auto load balance across multiple spindles. Or the network layer that could cope with multiple file system naming standards, both transparently and visibly. (you could either use a uniform syntax that would get mapped into what the other file system could cope with, or if needed, use the file systems native syntax. (you could have a program refere to a file by a single name, with that name getting translated to cope with the dev:[dir.dir]file.nam;number of one OS, the dev:\dir\dir\dir\8.3 and /this/that/the/other/thing~7 of others)). Command completion. File name completeion. Even something that watched as you typed, and offered word completions that matched things you had typed previously. So you could use long-descriptive-variable-name without having to type more than 3 chars of it.) ###### From: Tommi Syrj{nen Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Error code Date: 18 Feb 1998 15:46:24 +0200 Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Lines: 18 Distribution: inet Message-ID: References: <689l4g$7g9@world1.bawave.com> <34e0a1a8.78270651@194.213.69.148> <34e2340a.0@news.wizvax.net> <6btp4o$5ft$1@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <3512211f.872176105@206.210.64.12> NNTP-Posting-Host: salava.hut.fi X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.33 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!newsfeed1.funet.fi!news.funet.fi!nntp.hut.fi!usenet David Wragg writes: > newcomer@flounder.com (Joseph M. Newcomer) writes: > > filename completion is something that every system should have. > > Not just filename completion - everything completion, except maybe > natural language (though I once did see a word processor based upon > that idea). Also with natural language. I write mostly in Finnish and Finnish has a lot of long words. It's very convenient to write just few characters, hit Esc a couple of times (I have binded hippie-expand to Esc-Esc in my emacs) and go on writing. Sometimes I have to hit backspace a couple of times to correct suffix, though, but it still beats writing words like 'syyttämättäjättämispäätös' again and again. -- Tommi Syrjanen