From: martini@heaven7.snafu.de (Martin Ibert) Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,comp.sys.tandy,comp.os.misc,comp.sys.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Q: Interest in ST-506 drives Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 17:30:02 GMT Organization: The Seventh Heaven, Berlin, Germany Lines: 20 Message-ID: <34893944.163544799@news.sky.bln.sub.org> References: <344F6C96.CF3@spd.dsccc.com> <62rn6i$fkd@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <649isb$9c6$1@gte1.gte.net> <34767782.6321702@192.189.54.145> <00003477A4ED.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <6599pa$l13@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <347a8f1f.42557753@news.scruz.net> <661bmc$789@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: arezzo.sky.bln.sub.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!fu-berlin.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!desert!firenze.sky.bln.sub.org!news On 2 Dec 1997 16:06:36 GMT, ianchard@voyager.sqf.hp.com (Ian Chard) wrote: >Commodore's 1540/1541/1581 GCR (as opposed to MFM, just to make sure their >disks were unreadable in anything else) floppy drives did this by design. >When you formatted a disk, or if there was a read error, the head would >rattle itself against the head stop as if to say "Feed me _valid_ media!" I've worked with the forefathers of these drives (1540? Tacky. Give my an 8050 or an 8250 any day!) a lot. AFAIK, the rattling noise when "headering" (formatting) a disk was the head mechanism moving in the direction of the first track 80 times because it did not have any other reliable way of telling when it got there. Usually, it was in the middle of the disk (where the directory was), so it banged its poor little head 40 times. For those tacky toy drives, the numbers were 40 and 20, respectively. -- Please visit http://www.snafu.de/~martini/ for contact information! ------------------------------------------------------------------- |Blind faith in your leaders, or in anything, will get you killed!| ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,comp.sys.tandy,comp.os.misc,comp.sys.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Q: Interest in ST-506 drives Date: 11 Dec 1997 00:47:43 +0100 Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <344F6C96.CF3@spd.dsccc.com> <62rn6i$fkd@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <649isb$9c6$1@gte1.gte.net> <34767782.6321702@192.189.54.145> <00003477A4ED.NO_UCE@mauve.demon.co.uk> <6599pa$l13@mozo.cc.purdue.edu> <347a8f1f.42557753@news.scruz.net> <661bmc$789@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> <34893944.163544799@news.sky.bln.sub.org> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Ian Chard> Commodore's 1540/1541/1581 GCR (as opposed to MFM, just to make sure their disks were unreadable in anything else) Hmmm. Actually they did it to get 7/4 the capacity of FM modulation without the price tag of MFM modulation (8/4 the capacity). Also they saved the need for index hole detection, allowing the disk controller to consist of no more than an 6502CPU+6522VIA. Apple used the same method in the Disk ][ Drives of the Apple ][. Don't suspect maliciousness just because you suffered. It _was_ cheap. Martin Iber> AFAIK, the rattling noise when "headering" (formatting) a disk was the head mechanism moving in the direction of the first track That it was. They also saved the costs for the Track 0 detector. Just "bump" the head to the end point (that was official jargon, the command was called Bump). Martin Iber> 80 times ... so it banged its poor little head 40 times. For those tacky toy drives, the numbers were 40 and 20, respectively. But here you err. The small (15xx, 2xxx, 3xxx, 4xxx) drives were 35 Track. The large (8xxx) were 77 track. Directory on Track 18 or 39. I grew up on a C64+1541. Still remember it fondly. And the 286/DOS shock not so fondly:-) 486/Linux is at least powerfull. -- Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch, http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: Any computer, that is running optimally, is outdated; including my 486 ###### From: xmikex@eyrie.org (XmikeX) Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,comp.sys.tandy,comp.os.misc,comp.sys.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Q: Interest in ST-506 drives Date: 11 Dec 1997 18:35:13 -0800 Organization: The Eyrie Lines: 7 Message-ID: <66q7t1$4l0@eyrie.org> References: <347a8f1f.42557753@news.scruz.net> <661bmc$789@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> <34893944.163544799@news.sky.bln.sub.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: eyrie.stanford.edu Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!csulb.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.Stanford.EDU!nntp.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail Hello, Someone on this thread mentioned that the 1581 is a GCR drive. It is MFM, and there is at least one device driver (for linux) that can read 1581. XmX ###### Newsgroups: comp.sys.misc,alt.folklore.computers From: csess@blaze.trentu.ca (Eric S. Smith: Left-Field Marshal) Subject: Re: Q: Interest in ST-506 drives Sender: news@news.trentu.ca (News) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:51:33 GMT X-Nntp-Posting-Host: blaze.trentu.ca References: <661bmc$789@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> <34893944.163544799@news.sky.bln.sub.org> Organization: Trent University, Peterborough Canada Lines: 19 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!csulb.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!news.trentu.ca!csess In article , Neil Franklin wrote: >I grew up on a C64+1541. Still remember it fondly. Same here. >And the 286/DOS >shock not so fondly:-) And here I differ. I liked having a monitor that didn't burn my eyes out of my head after an hour, and having a hard disk. I loathed the 1541 for its lack of speed and overheating problems. And VGA beat 64 graphics all to hell. Of course, the 64 sound beat the PC squeaker all to hell, so I guess we'll call that a stalemate... --Eric Smith ("Ah, another visitor...") ###### From: ianchard@voyager.sqf.hp.com (Ian Chard) Newsgroups: comp.sys.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Q: Interest in ST-506 drives Followup-To: comp.sys.misc,alt.folklore.computers Date: 16 Dec 1997 16:15:57 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Lines: 22 Message-ID: <6769ft$28h@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> References: <661bmc$789@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> <34893944.163544799@news.sky.bln.sub.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: voyager.sqf.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.9] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news1.best.com!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hplntx!hplb!hpwin055.uksr!ianchard Eric S. Smith: Left-Field Marshal (csess@blaze.trentu.ca) blethered: > And here I differ. I liked having a monitor that didn't burn my eyes out > of my head after an hour, and having a hard disk. I loathed the 1541 for > its lack of speed and overheating problems. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You mean you didn't have an Action Replay Mk IV (TM) with Warp*25 (TM)? I didn't think I'd live long enough to format a disk before I got one of those. > ("Ah, another visitor...") Stay awhile. Staaaay forever!! BTW I did a MIDI arrangement of the music from Monty On The Run a few years ago just cos I love it so much (sad I know). -- Ian Chard, UNIX Support TMO IT, Hewlett-Packard South Queensferry Email: Telnet: 313-3328 Phone: +44 (0)131 331 6328 ###### From: ianchard@voyager.sqf.hp.com (Ian Chard) Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,comp.sys.tandy,comp.os.misc,comp.sys.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Q: Interest in ST-506 drives Followup-To: comp.os.cpm,comp.sys.tandy,comp.os.misc,comp.sys.misc,alt.folklore.computers Date: 16 Dec 1997 16:17:02 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Lines: 12 Message-ID: <6769hu$28h@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> References: <347a8f1f.42557753@news.scruz.net> <661bmc$789@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> <34893944.163544799@news.sky.bln.sub.org> <66q7t1$4l0@eyrie.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: voyager.sqf.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.9] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!141.211.144.13!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!news1.best.com!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hplntx!hplb!hpwin055.uksr!ianchard XmikeX (xmikex@eyrie.org) wrote: > Someone on this thread mentioned that the 1581 is a GCR drive. It is > MFM, and there is at least one device driver (for linux) that can read 1581. That is a surprise, as it could also read 1541 disks - was it both? I do remember the 1581 being a lot faster, and having what looked like a parallel connector on it - I used one on a Plus/4 for a while. -- Ian Chard, UNIX Support TMO IT, Hewlett-Packard South Queensferry Email: Telnet: 313-3328 Phone: +44 (0)131 331 6328 ###### From: xmikex@eyrie.org (XmikeX) Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,comp.sys.tandy,comp.os.misc,comp.sys.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Q: Interest in ST-506 drives Date: 16 Dec 1997 17:21:34 -0800 Organization: The Eyrie Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6779eu$51v@eyrie.org> References: <34893944.163544799@news.sky.bln.sub.org> <66q7t1$4l0@eyrie.org> <6769hu$28h@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: eyrie.stanford.edu Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.Stanford.EDU!nntp.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail XmikeX (xmikex@eyrie.org) wrote: >> Someone on this thread mentioned that the 1581 is a GCR drive. It is >> MFM, and there is at least one device driver (for linux) that can read >> 1581. Ian Chard (ianchard@sqf.hp.com) replied : >That is a surprise, as it could also read 1541 disks - was it both? >I do remember the 1581 being a lot faster, and having what looked like >a parallel connector on it - I used one on a Plus/4 for a while. Ian, You are thinking of the 1551 drive. The 1581 is a 3.5" device while the 1541 is a 5.25" device (apologies to metric system fans for 3.5 and 5.25 inches). In addition, there exists the 1570 and 1571 drives. The 1571 (and probably the 1570, which is the single sided version of 1571) can read/write Commodore GCR and can be programmed to read/write MFM. The comp.os.cpm FAQ contains a reference for the juggler C128 CP/M utility, which is used with the 1571 (maybe the 1581 as well, for 3.5" disks) to r/w a whole army of different CP/M MFM types. (Herne Data Systems, the authors, have made the juggler utility available on their webpage...I forget the address, but webscanning their name + C128 or CPM, CP/M should suffice.) XmX ###### From: "Simo Tuominen" Newsgroups: comp.sys.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Q: Interest in ST-506 drives Date: 16 Dec 97 21:30:06 +0200 Organization: Foo, Inc. Lines: 32 Message-ID: <3496F2DE.MD-0.198.simotit@evitech.fi> References: <6769ft$28h@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-0-17.evitech.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: MicroDot-II/AmigaOS 0.198 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newspeer.monmouth.com!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!128.214.248.135.MISMATCH!newsfeed1.funet.fi!news.evitech.fi!news ianchard@voyager.sqf.hp.com wrote: > Eric S. Smith: Left-Field Marshal (csess@blaze.trentu.ca) blethered: > > > And here I differ. I liked having a monitor that didn't burn my eyes out > > of my head after an hour, and having a hard disk. I loathed the 1541 for > > its lack of speed and overheating problems. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > You mean you didn't have an Action Replay Mk IV (TM) with Warp*25 (TM)? > I didn't think I'd live long enough to format a disk before I got one of > those. I didn't even *have* a 1541, only tapes. Some games were more than a bit touchy, if you as much as looked in the direction of the tape drive, the loading would fail. :P > > ("Ah, another visitor...") > > Stay awhile. > Staaaay forever!! Dr. Atombender I presume? > BTW I did a MIDI arrangement of the music from Monty On The Run a few years > ago just cos I love it so much (sad I know). Don't know about MOTR, but I have to get a working sidplayer somewhere, just so I can listen to the music from Parallax, Wizball etc. :) -- # simotit@evitech.fi # Any similarities between this text and # # Team AMIGA! # my opinions are purely coincidental. # ###### From: "S.L. Wellborn" Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,comp.sys.tandy,comp.os.misc,comp.sys.misc,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Q: Interest in ST-506 drives Date: 20 Dec 1997 00:39:09 GMT Organization: Oregon Public Networking Lines: 17 Message-ID: <01bd0ce0$ed8584c0$00000002@Pstacew.efn.org> References: <347a8f1f.42557753@news.scruz.net> <661bmc$789@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> <34893944.163544799@news.sky.bln.sub.org> <66q7t1$4l0@eyrie.org> <6769hu$28h@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: oak-ip85.efn.org X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.efn.org!not-for-mail Ian Chard wrote in article <6769hu$28h@hpwin055.uksr.hp.com>... > XmikeX (xmikex@eyrie.org) wrote: > > > Someone on this thread mentioned that the 1581 is a GCR drive. It is > > MFM, and there is at least one device driver (for linux) that can read 1581. > > That is a surprise, as it could also read 1541 disks - was it both? > I do remember the 1581 being a lot faster, and having what looked like > a parallel connector on it - I used one on a Plus/4 for a while. Which way did you fold the 1541 disks to fit in the 1581 drive? :) its a 3.5" drive.