From: Jeff Watt Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Read it once ! Read it twice ! <----- PLONK! Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:09:06 +0000 Organization: Me-Never Distribution: world Message-ID: <1MNi+AAS$Ss0EwO$@arkoutha.demon.co.uk> References: <19980104080800.DAA26136@ladder02.news.aol.com> <68q1ak$j1u@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: arkoutha.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: arkoutha.demon.co.uk [158.152.153.208] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 3.04 Lines: 19 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!mic.fibernet.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!arkoutha.demon.co.uk!ursus In article <68q1ak$j1u@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>, "Dr. Strange" writes >You have posted an OFF-TOPIC SPAM to this group! > >PLEASE DO NOT POST SPAM TO THIS GROUP!! > Can I make a plea to all those who post a complaint about SPAM on this group? Please don't quote the whole spam message you are complaining about. Those of us in the UK have to pay for our on-line time - we pay to receive yet another copy of the damned thing we didn't want in the first place. -- Ursus. ###### From: Dr._Strange@alt.consciousness.near-death-exp (Dr. Strange) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Re: Read it once ! Read it twice ! <----- PLONK! Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 02:23:23 GMT Organization: . Lines: 28 Message-ID: <68s50b$7ov@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> References: <19980104080800.DAA26136@ladder02.news.aol.com> <68q1ak$j1u@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> <1MNi+AAS$Ss0EwO$@arkoutha.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: Dr._Strange@alt.consciousness.near-death-exp NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.67.33.162 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.structured.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.229.87.25!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!worldnet.att.net!newsadm On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:09:06 +0000, Jeff Watt wrote: >In article <68q1ak$j1u@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>, "Dr. Strange" > writes >>You have posted an OFF-TOPIC SPAM to this group! >> >>PLEASE DO NOT POST SPAM TO THIS GROUP!! >> > > >Can I make a plea to all those who post a complaint about SPAM on this >group? > >Please don't quote the whole spam message you are complaining about. >Those of us in the UK have to pay for our on-line time - we pay to >receive yet another copy of the damned thing we didn't want in the first >place. The reason I quote all of it is to forward the Complete Copy to the SPAMMERs suspected ISP. Why are you downloading this? Does your news reader only allow you to download the whole post, and not the headers? If so, perhaps you should try a different news reader if your ISP permits. If you are using Windows I would recommend Forté Agent. And why does your ISP force you to pay for SPAM? Perhaps if enough of you complain, or switch to a different ISP, your current ISP will do something about the SPAM. ###### From: optional@any.good.com (Optional) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Re: Read it once ! Read it twice ! <----- PLONK! Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 07:26:44 GMT Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - http://www.altopia.com Lines: 55 Message-ID: <34b1d02e.4942872@207.14.113.10> References: <19980104080800.DAA26136@ladder02.news.aol.com> <68q1ak$j1u@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> <1MNi+AAS$Ss0EwO$@arkoutha.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!usenet On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:09:06 +0000, Jeff Watt wrote: >>PLEASE DO NOT POST SPAM TO THIS GROUP!! >> > > >Can I make a plea to all those who post a complaint about SPAM on this >group? > >Please don't quote the whole spam message you are complaining about. >Those of us in the UK have to pay for our on-line time - we pay to >receive yet another copy of the damned thing we didn't want in the first >place. The reason the whole spam message with headers is posted is to make it easy for others in the group to complain to the ISP of the spammer. Most ISP's want to see the unedited message with complete headers in order to determine if there user abused their service. But you are right in that reposting the message does just waste more resources. As Dr. Strange said, you should only have to download the headers and not the full message. It looks like your using Turnpike Version 3.04. I haven't used this reader but if it forces you to download all of the messages in full I would find another reader. On the other hand, if your are downloading all the messages so you can read the posts off-line I can see where this would be a problem. We could just post the headers and email address of the spammers provider in response a large spam post. I'm not sure how many people are using this info anyway. >Perhaps if enough of you >complain, or switch to a different ISP, your current ISP will do something >about the SPAM. I don't think that the problem is with his ISP unless you are referring to hourly charges for service. Are all ISP's in the UK hourly based? I don't think it should be the responsibility of a ISP to filter out spam posts. This would make them a moderator/censor. I think that the members of a group should collectively be the moderator. This does mean that spam will get through but, if ISP's do their part, they will not be repeated. It is the responsibility of all ISP's to prevent spam coming from their site and to act upon reports of abuses by their users. Some ISP's have failed in this responsibility and have been cut off by upstream providers or even faced a Usenet death penalty (having all posts from their site canceled). But if responsible users and providers work together we can clean up most of the spam and prevent government intervention as the US government tried to do, but the Surpreme Court stopped it (Thank God!). I would like to hear the opinions of other members of this group regarding spam. One or two people can make a difference but a group of people can make a bigger difference. ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Re: Read it once ! Read it twice ! <----- PLONK! Date: 07 Jan 1998 01:57:24 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 69 Message-ID: References: <19980104080800.DAA26136@ladder02.news.aol.com> <68q1ak$j1u@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> <1MNi+AAS$Ss0EwO$@arkoutha.demon.co.uk> <34b1d02e.4942872@207.14.113.10> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 >PLEASE DO NOT POST SPAM TO THIS GROUP!! > wrote: >Can I make a plea to all those who post a complaint about SPAM on this >group? >Please don't quote the whole spam message you are complaining about. >Those of us in the UK have to pay for our on-line time - we pay to >receive yet another copy of the damned thing we didn't want in the first >place. I am adding myself to ursus@arkoutha.demon.co.uk complaint. SPAM is bad enough, please not have it twice. From: optional@any.good.com (Optional) >The reason the whole spam message with headers is posted is to make it >easy for others in the group to complain to the ISP of the spammer. >Most ISP's want to see the unedited message with complete headers in >order to determine if there user abused their service. But you are >right in that reposting the message does just waste more resources. > >As Dr. Strange said, you should only have to download the headers and >not the full message. It looks like your using Turnpike Version 3.04. >I haven't used this reader but if it forces you to download all of the >messages in full I would find another reader. On the other hand, if >your are downloading all the messages so you can read the posts >off-line I can see where this would be a problem. I use GNUS, which has the fetch-Headers-only feature you mention, but I allways batch-download for off-line reading, as you suspected. This actually costs less modem time when one wants most posts in a newsgroup (and I drop any group that interests me less than 50%). I would strongly suspect that ursus does this also. See the explanaiton further down for the reason. > We could just post >the headers and email address of the spammers provider in response a >large spam post. I'm not sure how many people are using this info >anyway. You could post the full message to the spammers ISP and only a complaint with the content snipped to the Newsgroup (this is after all directed at the spammer, assuming they are reading). Anyone else who also wants to mail the spammers ISP has after all already recieved a copy (inclusive Header) and most likely already sent their complaint to the ISP. >I don't think that the problem is with his ISP unless you are >referring to hourly charges for service. Are all ISP's in the UK >hourly based? It is not the ISP that is charging! Here in Europe (AFAIK all of it) we have to pay the phone company connect time just to get to the ISP. Yes, americans, you may be astounded, that means for me ca $0.65 for _every_ minute from sending ATH1 to the modem until ATH0! BTW: that is night tariff, day tariff would be $2.60/minute! And yes, that is just the phone connection, add the ISP to that, mine $20/month, no volume charge, but thats peanuts. Internetting is a $100+/month hobby over here, guess why only 10% of all households have a connection, despite 40% having a PC. > I would like to hear the opinions of other members of this group Which I hearwith send to you. Thanks for reading. -- Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam), http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: ###### From: optional@any.good.com (Optional) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Re: Read it once ! Read it twice ! <----- PLONK! Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 05:17:46 GMT Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - http://www.altopia.com Lines: 13 Message-ID: <34b30bd1.1853105@207.14.113.10> References: <19980104080800.DAA26136@ladder02.news.aol.com> <68q1ak$j1u@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> <1MNi+AAS$Ss0EwO$@arkoutha.demon.co.uk> <34b1d02e.4942872@207.14.113.10> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.alt.net!usenet On 07 Jan 1998 01:57:24 +0100, Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove ..nospam) wrote: Points well made! Perhaps the best response to spam would be to just post the headers from the spam and maybe a few suggestions on decoding the headers since many headers have been hacked. Some newsreaders make it hard to get the headers so this might help people using these readers and it might discourage a few spammers. The origional post should still be there to email to their ISP unless someone has sent a forged cancel and it was removed before you downloaded the post. ###### From: Dr._Strange@alt.consciousness.near-death-exp (Dr. Strange) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Re: Read it once ! Read it twice ! <----- PLONK! Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 06:43:44 GMT Organization: . Lines: 26 Message-ID: <68v8kh$p50@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <19980104080800.DAA26136@ladder02.news.aol.com> <68q1ak$j1u@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> <1MNi+AAS$Ss0EwO$@arkoutha.demon.co.uk> <34b1d02e.4942872@207.14.113.10> Reply-To: Dr._Strange@alt.consciousness.near-death-exp NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.67.33.125 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!worldnet.att.net!newsadm On 07 Jan 1998 01:57:24 +0100, Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam) wrote: > >You could post the full message to the spammers ISP and only a >complaint with the content snipped to the Newsgroup (this is after all >directed at the spammer, assuming they are reading). Anyone else who >also wants to mail the spammers ISP has after all already recieved a >copy (inclusive Header) and most likely already sent their complaint >to the ISP. Neil, I agree with you on this, now that I've had time to think about it. This would be reasonably easy to do from Agent using built-in cut-and-paste. In the future I will try to do this for you. And besides that, in re-posting the SPAMMER's message I just furthered his cause, as well as wasted internet bandwidth. >It is not the ISP that is charging! Here in Europe (AFAIK all of it) >we have to pay the phone company connect time just to get to the ISP. >Yes, americans, you may be astounded, that means for me ca $0.65 for >_every_ minute from sending ATH1 to the modem until ATH0! I have read a rumor that American phone companies are trying to get legislation passed that would allow them to do that to us too. Phone companies SUCK! ###### From: mani@mcmail.com (mani) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Re: Read it once ! Read it twice ! <----- PLONK! Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:15:19 GMT Reply-To: mani@mcmail.com Message-ID: <34c7abad.734336@news.mcmail.com> References: <19980104080800.DAA26136@ladder02.news.aol.com> <68q1ak$j1u@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net> <1MNi+AAS$Ss0EwO$@arkoutha.demon.co.uk> <68s50b$7ov@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: asn1-42.mcmail.com Lines: 12 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!insnet.net!news.mcmail.com!asn1-42.mcmail.com it's nothing to do with the i.s.p., it's the telco. in the uk we (almost everyone) have to pay for *all* our telephone time, no free calls at weekends or evenings etc., they are all charged (at reduced rates compared to daytime, but still we pay). i think this is what this person meant ! }And why does your ISP force you to pay for SPAM? Perhaps if enough of you }complain, or switch to a different ISP, your current ISP will do something }about the SPAM.