From: Robert Lauzeckas Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.4th-way,alt.consciousness.jancox,alt.consciousness.mysticism,alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: You mean like this? Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:19:24 -0500 Organization: Netcom Lines: 2104 Message-ID: <34BC2EBC.7B7B@ix.netcom.com> References: <34B92FEA.AC9FD650@phnx.uswest.net> Reply-To: flauzeck@ix.netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwk-nj17-19.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------189913FCC96" X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jan 13 7:18:49 PM PST 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) To: "Alan B. Mac Farlane" Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!131.103.1.114!news1.chicago.iagnet.net!iagnet.net!199.0.154.56!ais.net!ix.netcom.com!news This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------189913FCC96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan B. Mac Farlane wrote: > > Try reading Julian Jaynes - "Origin of consciousness and the spliting of > the bicameral mind". A good left brain look at the right brain > phonomena. The right brain sees it differently of course. He is a bright > guy and has something to say. > > SumBuddie > > In article <34B92FEA.AC9FD650@phnx.uswest.net>, Eric Maillet > wrote: > > > Consciousness: consciousness of something or consciousness as something? > > > > Eric Maillet > > The Metaphysics of Blue > > Looking for the soul of a soulless world > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5243 > > cyberets@phnx.uswest.net You mean like this? Use WinZip to read it, but only after you save it. Gee, I was hoping for feedback. I can't give you the rest, until then. Of course, there is more. It has been ten years, after all. Robert Lauzeckas --------------189913FCC96 Content-Type: application/msword; name="maybe-att.doc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="maybe-att.doc" 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAgAAAAAA AAAAEAAArwAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAAAMAAACTAAAA//////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////9SAG8AbwB0ACAARQBuAHQAcgB5AAAAAAAAMAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEA4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFgAFAf//////////AQAAAAAJ AgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAoDmSorf/ugEgY9HpRfa6AZIAAACAAwAAAAAAAFcAbwByAGQA RABvAGMAdQBtAGUAbgB0AAAAAAC4CwAAaAEAACQJAABAAUAA//8AAP////8AAAUAAAAAAP// //8aAAIBAgAAAAMAAAD/////AJAAABkAAAC4CwAAEA4AABAOAACoDAAAaAEAAIwKAADgAQAA BQAAAK1kAQAAAAAAAQBDAG8AbQBwAE8AYgBqAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA [lots of garbage snipped] ZXh0AAAA9FMCAAAQAAAAVAIAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAGAuYnNzAAAAAPw3AAAAcAIA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAADALnJkYXRhAABJSQAAALACAABKAAAAWAIAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAQAAAQC5kYXRhAAAA4CoAAAAAAwA= --------------189913FCC96-- ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Re: You mean like this? Date: 15 Jan 1998 16:15:20 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <34B92FEA.AC9FD650@phnx.uswest.net> eply-To: flauzeck@ix.netcom. <34BC2EBC.7B7B@ix.netcom.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Robert Lauzeckas sent us a big message: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 >Content-Type: application/msword; name="maybe-att.doc" > Use WinZip to read it, but only after you save it. Oops annother net.newbie who hasn't heard this yet: 1. BE AWARE that Usenet posts reach thousands of people worldwide with strongly varying computers and network connections. 2. DO NOT send messages larger that 10kByte (yours was 150kByte) WHY? Because in many (most) countries in this world people have to pay for the phone call to download Usenet (here $0.66/min night tariff, $2.50/min day). 150k takes 3/2 min to download one single message on am 14.400 modem BETTER: Put the FIle on a Web site and post the URL to it 3. DO NOT send MIME news posts ("drag and drop"), particularly base64 encoded WHY? Because many people can not decode them -> unreadable, wasted BETTER: Use Website or send at least an ASCII post ("pasted in") 4. DO NOT send proprietary data formats such as MS-Word WHY? Because many people do not have Word -> unreadable BETTER: Use internationally standard formats such as ASCII or HTML+GIF 5. If you must use Word, at least re-save your text into an NEW file WHY? Because then the Text is at least in one stream and can be extracted by non-word owners, else unreadable BETTER: Avoid Word format or never use "autosave" on the original I am sure your text would have been an nice read, as your text Re: NO ITS HEAVEN! was wonderfull. But I can't read it:-( Down here it is fucked up, you say, yeah it is :-) -- Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam), http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: If I go missing, its once again my newsfeed that has craped ###### From: Dr._Strange@alt.consciousness.near-death-exp (Dr. Strange) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Re: You mean like this? Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:41:49 GMT Organization: . Lines: 39 Message-ID: <69pgd8$bo5@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <34B92FEA.AC9FD650@phnx.uswest.net> eply-To: flauzeck@ix.netcom. <34BC2EBC.7B7B@ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: Dr._Strange@alt.consciousness.near-death-exp NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.67.33.120 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!worldnet.att.net!newsadm On 15 Jan 1998 16:15:20 +0100, Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam) wrote: >Robert Lauzeckas sent us a big message: >>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 >>Content-Type: application/msword; name="maybe-att.doc" >> Use WinZip to read it, but only after you save it. > >Oops annother net.newbie who hasn't heard this yet: > >1. BE AWARE that Usenet posts reach thousands of people worldwide with > strongly varying computers and network connections. > >2. DO NOT send messages larger that 10kByte (yours was 150kByte) > WHY? Because in many (most) countries in this world people have to > pay for the phone call to download Usenet (here $0.66/min night > tariff, $2.50/min day). 150k takes 3/2 min to download one single > message on am 14.400 modem > BETTER: Put the FIle on a Web site and post the URL to it > >3. DO NOT send MIME news posts ("drag and drop"), particularly base64 > encoded > WHY? Because many people can not decode them -> unreadable, wasted > BETTER: Use Website or send at least an ASCII post ("pasted in") Unfortunately for a lot of people MIME is gradually becoming a new "standard". And part of that is some of the ASCII characters used for UUEncoding do not propagate well through certain types of internet gateways. At least this was true a few years ago. That's not the main reason. There are a few others I don't recall. I noticed your header "X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34". Are you using a UNIX system. If so, are you aware of a mail program called "PINE"? This is free from the University of Washington, as I recall. It is an easy to use e-mail program that supports the MIME standard, and can be used as a newsreader. ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Re: You mean like this? Date: 19 Jan 1998 06:38:48 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 53 Message-ID: <67nhyqdz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> References: <34B92FEA.AC9FD650@phnx.uswest.net> eply-To: flauzeck@ix.netcom. <34BC2EBC.7B7B@ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: Dr._Strange@alt.consciousness.near-death-ex <69pgd8$bo5@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Robert Lauzeckas sent us a big message: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 >Content-Type: application/msword; name="maybe-att.doc" > Use WinZip to read it, but only after you save it. Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam) wrote: >Oops annother net.newbie who hasn't heard this yet: [rest deleted] >3. DO NOT send MIME news posts ("drag and drop"), particularly base64 > encoded Dr._Strange@alt.consciousness.near-death-exp (Dr. Strange) replied: >Unfortunately for a lot of people MIME is gradually becoming a new "standard". >And part of that is some of the ASCII characters used for UUEncoding do not >propagate well through certain types of internet gateways. At least this was >true a few years ago. That's not the main reason. There are a few others I >don't recall. The problem is not base64 vs uuencode (I can read both, albeit with quite a bit of work). The main problem is large posts (over 100k, although even over 30k is considered bad behaviour) containing proprietary (read: unreadable) binary data. Using either base64 or uuencode should actually be a warning that what he is doing is wrong. For personal Email between parties who have agreed on it, both of these tools are usefull, but they are not right in public forums such as mailing lists or newsgroups. Exeption to this of course the "binaries" groups where this is in the group charter. Really the Web (or FTP) are the medium for large things. Mail and News are for short messages (which may contain URLs). >I noticed your header "X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34". Are you using a >UNIX system. If so, are you aware of a mail program called "PINE"? This is >free from the University of Washington, as I recall. It is an easy to use >e-mail program that supports the MIME standard, and can be used as a >newsreader. I am using a Unix system. Actually I have Netscape on it and can use that to unpack base64. That is after all how I found out, that the contents were a MS-Word .doc file that had been autosaved. BTW: Autosaving stores the entire text up to that time the first time a file is saved, from then on it just adds modifications to the end. Trying to read such an mixture of "deleted" and later on newer parts without Word (which I do not have) is impossible. Not to forget, that autosave makes files larger. -- Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch, http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: If I go missing, its once again my newsfeed that has craped ###### From: Robert Lauzeckas Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Re: You mean like this? Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:31:26 -0500 Organization: Netcom Lines: 46 Message-ID: <34C3AA0E.7E46@ix.netcom.com> References: <34B92FEA.AC9FD650@phnx.uswest.net> eply-To: flauzeck@ix.netcom. <34BC2EBC.7B7B@ix.netcom.com> <69pgd8$bo5@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> Reply-To: flauzeck@ix.netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwk-nj56-07.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jan 19 1:30:59 PM CST 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) To: Dr._Strange@alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!169.207.30.81!newsfeeds.sol.net!ix.netcom.com!news Dr. Strange wrote: > > On 15 Jan 1998 16:15:20 +0100, Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam) > wrote: > > >Robert Lauzeckas sent us a big message: > >>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > >>Content-Type: application/msword; name="maybe-att.doc" > >> Use WinZip to read it, but only after you save it. > > > >Oops annother net.newbie who hasn't heard this yet: > > > >1. BE AWARE that Usenet posts reach thousands of people worldwide with > > strongly varying computers and network connections. > > > >2. DO NOT send messages larger that 10kByte (yours was 150kByte) > > WHY? Because in many (most) countries in this world people have to > > pay for the phone call to download Usenet (here $0.66/min night > > tariff, $2.50/min day). 150k takes 3/2 min to download one single > > message on am 14.400 modem > > BETTER: Put the FIle on a Web site and post the URL to it > > > >3. DO NOT send MIME news posts ("drag and drop"), particularly base64 > > encoded > > WHY? Because many people can not decode them -> unreadable, wasted > > BETTER: Use Website or send at least an ASCII post ("pasted in") > > Unfortunately for a lot of people MIME is gradually becoming a new "standard". > And part of that is some of the ASCII characters used for UUEncoding do not > propagate well through certain types of internet gateways. At least this was > true a few years ago. That's not the main reason. There are a few others I > don't recall. > > I noticed your header "X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34". Are you using a > UNIX system. If so, are you aware of a mail program called "PINE"? This is > free from the University of Washington, as I recall. It is an easy to use > e-mail program that supports the MIME standard, and can be used as a > newsreader. > > How much of the essay can you pick up? Why was my cousin in Canada get it all with E-mail in Toronto? Robert L. ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: Re: You mean like this? Date: 21 Jan 1998 02:39:20 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 174 Message-ID: References: <34B92FEA.AC9FD650@phnx.uswest.net> <34BC2EBC.7B7B@ix.netcom.com> <69pgd8$bo5@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> Reply-To: flauzeck@ix.netcom.co <34C3AA0E.7E46@ix.netcom.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Robert Lauzeckas asked: > How much of the essay can you pick up? Of your message "Subject: You mean like this?" I got following: --- first the Header: From: Robert Lauzeckas Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.4th-way,alt.consciousness.jancox,alt.consciousness.mysticism,alt.consciousness.near-death-exp Subject: You mean like this? Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:19:24 -0500 Organization: Netcom Lines: 2104 Message-ID: <34BC2EBC.7B7B@ix.netcom.com> References: <34B92FEA.AC9FD650@phnx.uswest.net> Reply-To: flauzeck@ix.netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nwk-nj17-19.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------189913FCC96" X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jan 13 7:18:49 PM PST 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) To: "Alan B. Mac Farlane" Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!131.103.1.114!news1.chicago.iagnet.net!iagnet.net!199.0.154.56!ais.net!ix.netcom.com!news --- then the ASCII introductionary text: Alan B. Mac Farlane wrote: > > Try reading Julian Jaynes - "Origin of consciousness and the spliting of > the bicameral mind". A good left brain look at the right brain > phonomena. The right brain sees it differently of course. He is a bright > guy and has something to say. > > SumBuddie > > In article <34B92FEA.AC9FD650@phnx.uswest.net>, Eric Maillet > wrote: > > > Consciousness: consciousness of something or consciousness as something? > > > > Eric Maillet > > The Metaphysics of Blue > > Looking for the soul of a soulless world > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5243 > > cyberets@phnx.uswest.net You mean like this? Use WinZip to read it, but only after you save it. Gee, I was hoping for feedback. I can't give you the rest, until then. Of course, there is more. It has been ten years, after all. Robert Lauzeckas --- then the binary attachment: Content-Type: application/msword; name="maybe-att.doc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="maybe-att.doc" --- from that I could extract (via Netscape) the file: 111104 Jan 21 01:28 maybe-att.doc --- when viewing the file I got: -- first ca 100 lines of garbage such as: ]ÐÏ^Qࡱ^Zá^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@>^@^C^@þÿ ^@^F^@^@^@^@^@ -- then the following bit of info: MAYBE^SPRIVATE BY^M^M^M RobertLauzeckas (Fourth draft-1988) M^Mt Word for Windows 95^@ ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ -- then from here on sensible text: course in using their lefthemisphere) are docile in nature, and why so many artists(who make extens ive use of their right side) are usually petty, irritable, and self-centered by contrast.^M Of course there are many people with such lopsided development of their respective hemispheres where seeming This now goes on for 15 pages of readable text, but with regularly a few small (ca 5 characters) bits of garbage in it. After about 15 pages then again a half page of entire garbage. And so on until the end of the file (there again a very big bit of garbage). --- so that is what arrived here, now some explanations of it As you see the entire text is there, but cut up and so not legible. It starts with what looks like part "out of the middle" of your text. The reason for this "cutting up" of the text is the use of the "auto-save" option in Word, which every time you save only adds the changed blocks of text to the allready existant file. MS-Word and other programs that understand .doc files such as Winzip know how to extract out of the garbage the information needed to order the fragments of text in the row the author intended it to be in. A simple file viewer /as i used) fails and gives the above view. In an never auto-saved file at least all the text will appear as one big chunk, in sequence. That is why saving takes longer, the computer must write out all the text, not just the differences. There will only be 2 big blocks of garbage at the beginning and end. Even better is to use "Save As" and select as format "DOS Text With Linebreaks" (I think that is what Word called it 4 years ago, not seen Word since then). This produces an pure ASCII text, allways in right sequence and without garbage. This assures that everyone can read the text. The next thing is when putting the text into News. When you use drag and drop (which I assume you used) the text gets base64 coded, this actually increases its size by 33%! This is done to prevent the garbage from getting mangled in the news system (or even crashing it). In the case of maybe-att.doc that converted an 111104 byte file to an 152323 byte message (that size includes the header and into). BTW: your post "Subject: Is this small enough?" of the big group posts you sent in the meantime (the one you retracted with "Sunject: FORGET THE ABOVE MESS") was one where the base64 coding did not take place. As you see it got mangled. If you simply cut (or copy) and paste the "DOS text" the system knows that there is no garbage present and does not engage in such defensive measures, result: only 3/4 of the data volume. And that allways successfully. The third thing then to contemplate is how long your message will be. People who don't want to read a message generally don't have problems with anything smaller than 30k. 30-100k are accepted once in a while. Above 100k is generally regarded as an "no go". In this case it is considered propper to put the text on a Web (or FTP) site and to then post an synopsis of the text (1..3k) with the URL of the Webbed file. If you do not have a Web site I would advise you as a writer of texts to get one. You do not have to learn to use flashy graphics, just put all your "intended for the public" files on to the site and add a directory listing to them. For an example how simple is enough, see how I did my jokes collection at: http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/Jokes_and_Fun/ If you have questions to aquiring and making a Web site just mail me. > Why was my cousin in Canada get it all with E-mail in Toronto? Well for one: All the text arrived (none was lost), so he recieved it all. The problem is with extracting what is there. No doubt he must have some program (Word, Winzip or other) that can do this. The problem here is that well-meaning firms like Microsoft are in the name of ease of use and powerfullness putting software into the hands of users who do not know any better, that is not automatically compatible in its behaviour with what is already installed in the world and those still using old machines are getting run over. The result is complaints like the one I sent you. Yours, hoping news will stay legible -- Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch, http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: If I go missing, its once again my newsfeed that has craped ###### jokes collection moved to: http://neil.franklin.ch/Jokes_and_Fun/ home page generally at: http://neil.franklin.ch/