From: "tobias koehler" Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art Subject: Character sets (was: So, You Want To Make Text Art?) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:46:26 +0100 Organization: Siemens AG Austria Lines: 43 Message-ID: <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at> References: <8404ni$bve$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <386C9520.5C2E@earthling.net> <386e673e.0@206.103.97.91> <386EA280.25F9@earthling.net> <386F0346.9AB412B7@gtcom.net> <386F08E6.7BB1@earthling.net> <386f48ac.0@206.103.97.91> <386F7294.7C46@earthling.net> <84p7pi$gej$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38715D23.2966@earthling.net> <3871cf61.0@206.103.97.91> NNTP-Posting-Host: atv00p4c.sgpvt.at Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: scesie13.sie.siemens.at 946989986 378 193.228.250.80 (4 Jan 2000 12:46:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@siemens.at NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Jan 2000 12:46:26 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!newsfeed2.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!npeer.kpnqwest.net!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!news.siemens.at!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.ascii-art:7309 JRO schrieb in Nachricht <3871cf61.0@206.103.97.91>... >I don't have to back up anything. You're the one with the non-standard >keyboard, who is trembling that someone might post an umlaut here. Those keyboards are not non-standard. All national versions of keyboards follow their own little standards. Of course they would be unnecessary if someone finally introduced a keyboard with a couple dozen additional keys that would be suitable for all languages using the latin alphabet. But until that .... we have to live with dozens of different keyboard standards. > But if it makes you feel any better, the last stat I did hear, put > over 90% of the home internet users here, in the USA. That came off > the TeeVee; PBS. And you believe everything that comes on TV? I wouldn't do that if I were you .... I don't have the numbers, but my guess is that the percentage of internet users in non-English-speaking countries is increasing. "Almost all" users in German-speaking countries use QWERTZUIOPÜ keyboards and can't understand that some newsreaders might have problems with characters of the upper ISO 8859-1 set .... The strict ASCII art standard of using only characters 32 to 126 might be extended to include all of the ISO 8859-1 character set (which is "standard" in the WWW, Usenet, Mail etc. and probably understood by more newsreaders than ANSI control codes - I know it's far from ideal as it originates in the cold war, so it covers only western Europe) - but those pictures should be clearly marked. As the upper charset mostly consists of accented letters anyway, I'm not completely convinced of the necessity of such an extension ;) What I don't understand is all the flaming between JRO and Veronica Karlsson. Please, please, be so nice and take this to private e-mail. tobias köhler ###### From: Veronica Karlsson Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art Subject: Re: Character sets (was: So, You Want To Make Text Art?) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:27:08 +0100 Lines: 26 Message-ID: <3872033C.1E21@earthling.net> References: <8404ni$bve$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <386C9520.5C2E@earthling.net> <386e673e.0@206.103.97.91> <386EA280.25F9@earthling.net> <386F0346.9AB412B7@gtcom.net> <386F08E6.7BB1@earthling.net> <386f48ac.0@206.103.97.91> <386F7294.7C46@earthling.net> <84p7pi$gej$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38715D23.2966@earthling.net> <3871cf61.0@206.103.97.91> <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: lambda65.sm.luth.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!uio.no!news.kth.se!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.ascii-art:7291 tobias koehler wrote: > > What I don't understand is all the flaming between JRO and > Veronica Karlsson. Please, please, be so nice and take this to > private e-mail. I don't understand it either. That's the whole point of keeping it in the newsgroup. Similar "discussions" have been held in email. I got fed up with that, so I decided to only respond in the newsgroup this time. I don't see why I should be intimidated by him calling me all sorts of bad names, or blurting out things I said to him only, in email, that were never meant to be this public. -- (, http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ /|__--__ . __--__ |\ '__ /|\ _{ _ `.' / `.,_ _________ | _________ _,.' (/ `. / ||``._.' ASCII ART CHAT! `---'|:||,/ .' /| /|:| \ .' /\ \ __ __ _ `/|'\' ` `,/ /`,\ \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ /,'\ \ .'.' /| \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | |\ `.`. ,' / / | \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| | \ \ `, - `- -- `-'- -ejm-------------------------------------VK-- -`-' -- -' - ###### From: JRO Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art Subject: Re: Character sets (was: So, You Want To Make Text Art?) Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 16:49:31 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 111 Message-ID: <84t8am$aqu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8404ni$bve$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <386C9520.5C2E@earthling.net> <386e673e.0@206.103.97.91> <386EA280.25F9@earthling.net> <386F0346.9AB412B7@gtcom.net> <386F08E6.7BB1@earthling.net> <386f48ac.0@206.103.97.91> <386F7294.7C46@earthling.net> <84p7pi$gej$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38715D23.2966@earthling.net> <3871cf61.0@206.103.97.91> <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.226.27.48 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Jan 04 16:49:31 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 95; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x40.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 216.226.27.48 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDtwelfwisp Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-MUC.ecrc.net!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.ascii-art:7298 In article <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at>, "tobias koehler" wrote: > Those keyboards are not non-standard. All national versions of > keyboards follow their own little standards. Of course they > would be unnecessary if someone finally introduced a keyboard > with a couple dozen additional keys that would be suitable for > all languages using the latin alphabet. But until that .... we > have to live with dozens of different keyboard standards. Sorry, Tobias, but the standard is the Ascii keyboard. I think using Latin is a great idea, though. Get it accepted, and I'll be happy to comply. > And you believe everything that comes on TV? > I wouldn't do that if I were you .... Unfortunately, I believe everything I see or hear on television. Did you know that only last week, bigfoot aliens adbucted and impregnated a high school cheerleader squad, just outside of Beaver's Bend, Oregon? > I don't have the numbers, but my guess is that the percentage of > internet users in non-English-speaking countries is increasing. > "Almost all" users in German-speaking countries use QWERTZUIOPÜ > keyboards and can't understand that some newsreaders might have > problems with characters of the upper ISO 8859-1 set .... Yes, international users are certainly on the increase. The Ascii standard is still the standard, though. When this is changed, I won't have any problems with conforming. > The strict ASCII art standard of using only characters 32 to 126 > might be extended to include all of the ISO 8859-1 character set > (which is "standard" in the WWW, Usenet, Mail etc. and probably > understood by more newsreaders than ANSI control codes - I know > it's far from ideal as it originates in the cold war, so it > covers only western Europe) - but those pictures should be > clearly marked. As the upper charset mostly consists of accented > letters anyway, I'm not completely convinced of the necessity of > such an extension ;) Well, we wouldn't be making Ascii, then. We'd be making extended- character-Ascii. I'd go for it, when everyone else does. But, as you point out, there is no necessity for it, at all. Or maybe we could all switch to Unicode? That's something folks would LIKE to be ideal. As soon as it gets adopted as the standard, maybe we could all do that... > What I don't understand is all the flaming between JRO and > Veronica Karlsson. Please, please, be so nice and take this to > private e-mail. > > tobias köhler > > It's not really about Ascii charts, or tutorials, or anything like that, Tobias. It's about being rude to new people on this newsgroup; it's about being rude to old people on this newsgroup. Miss Karlson has long maintained she enjoys flaming both. She has no interest in promoting this newsgroup, or encouraging new people in joining this hobby. For years, she has started these little flame-wars, for her own entertainment. For years, I have kept this kind of thing IN email. She's cried and pulled her hair, each time, frothing at the mouth for an opportunity to flame me in "public". She's tried to disgrace nearly everyone else on this newsgroup, at one time or another. Since I do cartoons, she's mostly avoided me, or I've ignored her. I would be happy to keep this in email. I don't make "korrections" or write flames to people's threads. Veronikuh doesn't read her email, though... She wants you to catch her on "chat", instead. She can't deal with an email argument - there's no percentage in it, for her. Here, though, she has the open opportunity to try to disgrace someone, in "public". She cries for permission to post private email; she brings up past arguments, no matter how obscure (Lime Green browser backgrounds, for instance) her "point was". She's practiced trolling on flame groups, ect., for years - read up on trolling faqs, ect., ect.. Her purpose is clear. Thanks for your input. I appologize for stooping to answer this troll, but she's a weak one, who has now show her true colors to everyone here. I think that she will soon learn to behave, or she won't be around much longer. Then I can just get back to the buisness of making cartoons. -- Jonathon R. Oglesbee oglesbee@ mail.fullnet.net Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art Subject: Re: Character sets (was: So, You Want To Make Text Art?) Date: 04 Jan 2000 23:41:38 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 203 Message-ID: <6uyaa54fz1.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8404ni$bve$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <386C9520.5C2E@earthling.net> <386e673 e.0@206.103.97.91> <386EA280.25F9@earthling.net> <386F0346.9AB412B7@gtcom.net> < 386F08E6.7BB1@earthling.net> <386f48ac.0@206.103.97.91> <386F7294.7C46@earthling .net> <84p7pi$gej$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38715D23.2966@earthling.net> <3871cf61.0@20 6.103.97.91> <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at> <84t8am$aqu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 947025698 655 10.0.3.2 (4 Jan 2000 22:41:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Jan 2000 22:41:38 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.ascii-art:7325 JRO writes: > In article <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at>, > "tobias koehler" wrote: > > Those keyboards are not non-standard. All national versions of > > keyboards follow their own little standards. Definitely. All the national standard keyboards are per definition standards. The many standards (standards are nice, there are so many to chose from :-)) are all layout standards. Full, complete, official, de-jure standards, defined by standards bodies. I am writing this on an "sg" keyboard, which is the official standard here in Switzerland. This layout is law here. Firms can be procecuted for forcing employees to use any other layout. > > Of course they > > would be unnecessary if someone finally introduced a keyboard > > with a couple dozen additional keys that would be suitable for > > all languages using the latin alphabet. Forget it. That would be incompatible with present typing habits. Different keyboards are here to stay. So learn to live with them. > Sorry, Tobias, but the standard is the Ascii keyboard. Total error. The standard is the ASCII character set. The U.S. (a.k.a. ANSI) keyboard layout is _one_ of many that can generate ASCII character codes (and more). > I think using Latin is a great idea, though. Latin (both charset and special keyboard) is a bad idea. a) the keyboard it is incompatible with existing keyboards and typing habits b) the charset is not displayable on all hardware, one of the main reasons for ASCII art in the first place c) the charset violates the charter of a.a-a, make an alt.latin-text-art for it if you want to use it > > I don't have the numbers, but my guess is that the percentage of > > internet users in non-English-speaking countries is increasing. It _is_ increasing. Rapidly. Already in the 40-50% range of Internet users are non U.S. We here in Switzerland have actually more PCs per 1000 people than the U.S, but less are on the Internet. Once they all are connected (estimated to be the case in 2 years) Europe as a whole will have overtaken the U.S. in Internet connections. > > "Almost all" users in German-speaking countries use QWERTZUIOPÜ > > keyboards and can't understand that some newsreaders might have > > problems with characters of the upper ISO 8859-1 set .... That is unless they have pure ASCII, or ASCII-NRC, or EBCDIC, or ISO-8859-2 (eastern Europe), or UTF-8 using equipment. > Yes, international users are certainly on the increase. The Ascii > standard is still the standard, though. ASCII _is_ the standard. That is exactly what Veronica is saying all the time: The ASCII _character_set_ is standard, NOT the U.S. _keyboard_layout_ (which is not ASCII, it is ANSI layout). That is why Veronica is so against your "anything on the (U.S.) keyboard" attitude. And she is fully in the right on this issue. > > The strict ASCII art standard of using only characters 32 to 126 > > might be extended to include all of the ISO 8859-1 character set > > (which is "standard" in the WWW, Usenet, Mail etc. and probably > > understood by more newsreaders than ANSI control codes But it is definitely off topic for alt.ASCII-art. So no extending in this newsgroup. > > clearly marked. As the upper charset mostly consists of accented > > letters anyway, I'm not completely convinced of the necessity of > > such an extension ;) It is neither neccessary, nor particularly usefull. It is definitively non desirable because it breaks the wide compatibility of ASCII. > Or maybe we could all switch to Unicode? That's something folks > would LIKE to be ideal. As soon as it gets adopted as the standard, > maybe we could all do that... Again: this will not be ASCII art anymore. Feel free to found an alt.unicode-art. > > What I don't understand is all the flaming between JRO and > > Veronica Karlsson. Please, please, be so nice and take this to > > It's not really about Ascii charts, or tutorials, or anything > like that, Tobias. In the case of _this_ flame war it was definitely about what consists a valid definition of ASCII. And about you missleading newbies with your definition. So her critcism was fully appropriate. > Miss Karlson has long maintained she enjoys flaming both. Just because someone enjoys flaming does not mean that all that persons critical posts are pointless. This one has a valid point. > has no interest in promoting this newsgroup, or encouraging > new people in joining this hobby. Total rubbish. Her entire work shows she likes this hobby and getting people into it, but only if they do it propperly. Else, if they do it wrong, they do more damage than it they had turned away. > For years, she has started > these little flame-wars, for her own entertainment. But that does not mean that this one was for entertainment. This one was to clearly point, out that you are missleading newbies. > Veronikuh doesn't read her > email, though... She wants you to catch her on "chat", instead. > She can't deal with an email argument - there's no percentage in > it, for her. Can you add substance to this wild claim?S he may just simply be killfiling anything from you. > Here, though, she has the open opportunity to try to disgrace > someone, in "public". When in public both parties stand a chance to disgrace the other _or_themselves_. The public judges. Sofar you are losing this fight by holding to your U.S. keyboard = only standard = ASCII missinformation. > She cries for permission to post private email; Which a) she could have posted without permission (and refrained from doing so, which goes to her favour) and b) you gave her permission to post (and did it yourself). So you can't complain about this email exchange ending up becoming public. Pot to kettle: back! > she brings up past arguments, no matter how obscure (Lime > Green browser backgrounds, for instance) her "point was". Could you document in which post in this discussion she is supposed to have done that? Message ID, please. Else that statement is irrelevant to this discussion and could count as trying to besmirch someone. > practiced trolling on flame groups, ect., for years - read > up on trolling faqs, ect., ect.. Her purpose is clear. Just because she trolls sometimes does not make all her posts trolls. This one was an legitimate critic of your claim. > Thanks for your input. I appologize for stooping to answer this > troll, but she's a weak one, who has now show her true colors to > everyone here. Sofar she is winning this case. Your holding on to an demonstratably wrong claim has weakend you, not her. Time for giving in. > Then I can just get back to the > buisness of making cartoons. I hope so. Your cartoons are nice. But that does not make your false claim about keyboards right. Any person can do wrong and right: - You are right with your cartoons and wrong with the keyboards. - She is right on the keyboards and wrong on the trolling and flaming. The myth of the allways right JRO and the allways wrong VK simply doesn't stand a snowball in hells chance to survive. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: "JRO" Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art References: <8404ni$bve$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <386C9520.5C2E@earthling.net> <386e673e.0@206.103.97.91> <386EA280.25F9@earthling.net> <386F0346.9AB412B7@gtcom.net> <386F08E6.7BB1@earthling.net> <386f48ac.0@206.103.97.91> <386F7294.7C46@earthling.net> <84p7pi$gej$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38715D23.2966@earthling.net> <3871cf61.0@206.103.97.91> <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at> <3872033C.1E21@earthling.net> Subject: Re: Character sets (was: So, You Want To Make Text Art?) Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:04:10 -0600 Lines: 50 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.226.27.24 Message-ID: <3872ce3a.0@206.103.97.91> X-Trace: 4 Jan 2000 22:53:14 -0600, 216.226.27.24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!news-feed.fnsi.net!news-feeder.wcg.net!WCG!news.good.net!206.103.97.91!216.226.27.24 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.ascii-art:7357 Veronica Karlsson wrote in message news:3872033C.1E21@earthling.net... > tobias koehler wrote: > > > > What I don't understand is all the flaming between JRO and > > Veronica Karlsson. Please, please, be so nice and take this to > > private e-mail. > > I don't understand it either. That's the whole point of keeping it in > the newsgroup. Similar "discussions" have been held in email. I got fed > up with that, so I decided to only respond in the newsgroup this time. I > don't see why I should be intimidated by him calling me all sorts of bad > names, or blurting out things I said to him only, in email, that were > never meant to be this public. Facinating... You always initiate these arguments, although usually in email. Thrilled that I noticed you in any critical email from you (realizing I answer all emails, of course), you then immediately ask if you can take them my replies and post them to aaa. I've told you to go right ahead and do it. You never did, because in email I always beat you like a dead stick, and you run away. Usually because even you realize the stupid arguments you've initiated are just that - stupid. Like the infamous "Lime Green Backgroud"... I guess the whole of it wouldn't look too good, here. This time, you asked to post my email... I posted it, for you. Why don't you go dig out some of those older ones, and post them? Your obession with me seems to be quite complete; I'm sure you've saved every word I've ever written to you. First post your emails, that you've used to start these arguments, though. And the replies to replies you've recieved. You are really strange... You know I don't want correspondence, or reposts from you. I don't read your threads, and I don't bother you. Can't you seem to get used to the idea, that I don't want anything to do with you? I guess being ignored by someone is too much for you to handle. JRO ###### From: Veronica Karlsson Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art Subject: Re: Character sets (was: So, You Want To Make Text Art?) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:55:28 +0100 Lines: 101 Message-ID: <3874BAF0.72C7@earthling.net> References: <8404ni$bve$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <386C9520.5C2E@earthling.net> <386e673e.0@206.103.97.91> <386EA280.25F9@earthling.net> <386F0346.9AB412B7@gtcom.net> <386F08E6.7BB1@earthling.net> <386f48ac.0@206.103.97.91> <386F7294.7C46@earthling.net> <84p7pi$gej$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38715D23.2966@earthling.net> <3871cf61.0@206.103.97.91> <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at> <3872033C.1E21@earthling.net> <3872ce3a.0@206.103.97.91> NNTP-Posting-Host: lambda65.sm.luth.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news-MUC.ecrc.net!uio.no!news.kth.se!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.ascii-art:7377 JRO wrote: > Veronica Karlsson wrote: > > tobias koehler wrote: > > > > > > What I don't understand is all the flaming between JRO and > > > Veronica Karlsson. > > > > I don't understand it either. > > You always initiate these arguments, although usually in email. How things happened in this case: 1. JRO posts tutorial. [1] 2. VK posts comment about one detail in JRO's tutorial being Bad Advice. That's five lines of text, including a suggestion of how to improve the tutorial. Followed by an ascii table. [2] 3. JRO replies with two similar messages, one to VK's email [3], and one to the group [4]. The email version is 66 lines long (not counting headers, ascii table and sig). The Usenet version is 53 lines long (not counting headers, quoted text, ascii table and sig). Both contain long rants about what newbies like and don't like, and insults and insinuations focusing on VK. The email version is later posted to the group on Krogg's request. Two 60 line responses to a five-line comment! And *I* "initiated the argument"? Right! If you scream loud enough and long enough somebody might actually believe that. (Several times later in the thread we can observe the same "explosiveness" in your responses.) [1] http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=564544280 [2] http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=566832665 [3] http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=567202174 [4] http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=567380320 > Thrilled that I noticed you in any critical email from you (realizing > I answer all emails, of course), you then immediately ask if you > can take them my replies and post them to aaa. I've told you to go > right ahead and do it. You never did, I'm not sure it's _legal_ to do so without explicit permission in each individual case. > because in email I always beat > you like a dead stick, and you run away. Huh? I'm not the one over-reacting and writing replies that are ten times as big as the text they're responding to. I'm not the one sending both email and Usenet versions of the same message. I'm not the one using name-calling as an argumenting technique. > Usually because even you realize > the stupid arguments you've initiated are just that - stupid. Like the > infamous "Lime Green Backgroud"... I guess the whole of it wouldn't > look too good, here. You have my permission to forward that discussion here. I haven't kept a copy so I can't help you with that. > You are really strange... You know I don't want correspondence, or > reposts from you. I didn't know that. If you didn't want correspondence, why did you send me an email version of that post? > I don't read your threads, and I don't bother > you. Can't you seem to get used to the idea, that I don't want > anything to do with you? Can't you seem to get used to the idea, that this is an unmoderated newsgroup. The only thing you can do if you don't like me is to ignore me. The same way I can ignore you. I usually don't. I like your cartoons. Sometimes I disagree with something you write. Sometimes I respond to something you write. Live with it. > I guess being ignored by someone is too much for you to handle. So far you don't appear to be ignoring me... -- (, http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ /|__--__ . __--__ |\ '__ /|\ _{ _ `.' / `.,_ _________ | _________ _,.' (/ `. / ||``._.' ASCII ART CHAT! `---'|:||,/ .' /| /|:| \ .' /\ \ __ __ _ `/|'\' ` `,/ /`,\ \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ /,'\ \ .'.' /| \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | |\ `.`. ,' / / | \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| | \ \ `, - `- -- `-'- -ejm-------------------------------------VK-- -`-' -- -' - ###### From: Veronica Karlsson Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art Subject: Re: Character sets (was: So, You Want To Make Text Art?) Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:48:46 +0100 Lines: 101 Message-ID: <3874D57E.391@earthling.net> References: <8404ni$bve$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <386C9520.5C2E@earthling.net> <386e673e.0@206.103.97.91> <386EA280.25F9@earthling.net> <386F0346.9AB412B7@gtcom.net> <386F08E6.7BB1@earthling.net> <386f48ac.0@206.103.97.91> <386F7294.7C46@earthling.net> <84p7pi$gej$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38715D23.2966@earthling.net> <3871cf61.0@206.103.97.91> <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at> <84t8am$aqu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lambda65.sm.luth.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news-MUC.ecrc.net!bignews.mediaways.net!news.algonet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!news.kth.se!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.ascii-art:7370 JRO wrote: > tobias koehler wrote: > > Those keyboards are not non-standard. All national versions of > > keyboards follow their own little standards. > > Sorry, Tobias, but the standard is the Ascii keyboard. > I think using Latin is a great idea, though. Get it accepted, > and I'll be happy to comply. But we were not talking about what is the standard or what should be the standard or even if something is a standard or not. We were talking about what kinds of keyboards real people out there actually use. You claim that "most all" computer users use American keyboards. So far you have not backed up this claim with any real statistic. You have also not given any explanation as to why you think "most all people are using American keyboards" is an acceptable reason to discriminate against those who don't. > Yes, international users are certainly on the increase. The Ascii > standard is still the standard, though. When this is changed, I > won't have any problems with conforming. And this has _what_ to do with your suggested method for determining if a character is "pure ascii" or not? > Miss Karlson has long maintained she enjoys flaming both. I don't care if somebody is new or old in a newsgroup when I get into a discussion (or flamewar) with him/her. I do enjoy some flame wars. I don't go around attacking people left and right, as you seem to have got the idea that I do. I don't post deliberately to hurt somebody either. If I flame somebody it has more to do with what he says and does than it has to do with who he is (unlike your flames which obviously aim to hurt people on a more personal level). > She > has no interest in promoting this newsgroup, or encouraging > new people in joining this hobby. Can you explain what you base this accusation on? > For years, I have kept this kind of thing IN email. She's > cried and pulled her hair, each time, frothing at the mouth > for an opportunity to flame me in "public". She's tried to > disgrace nearly everyone else on this newsgroup, at one time > or another. Since I do cartoons, she's mostly avoided me, or > I've ignored her. You talk as if it was a matter of many, many times, not three or four... The same way that one post was suddenly a whole army of people supporting you... > I would be happy to keep this in email. I don't make "korrections" > or write flames to people's threads. Nobody owns a thread. > She cries for permission to post private email; Because it would be rude (even illegal?) to post them without your permission. To start with I had no intention to post it. I just _mentioned_ it. I was quite happy just answering the Usenet version. Then Krogg _requested_ the email version... > She's > practiced trolling on flame groups, ect., for years - read > up on trolling faqs, ect., ect.. Her purpose is clear. "Trolling" = Fishing for responses. Does not have to be mean. "Flaming" = Heated debate. Does not have to include trolling. Does not have to be mean or personal either. You seem to have trouble understanding that the two are not the same. You also seem to have trouble understanding that a person can be a troll while reading and posting to a troll newsgroup (e.g. alt.romath) and not when reading and posting to some other newsgroup (e.g. alt.ascii-art). > Thanks for your input. I appologize for stooping to answer this > troll, but she's a weak one, who has now show her true colors to > everyone here. You mean, the fact that I read and post to a troll newsgroup. Eh... I've been actively *inviting* people from this group to go there and join the fun. I've invited people from that group to come here... (remember míspher? remember the sig contest?) You haven't "made me show" anything new or unknown. -- (, http://www.ludd.luth.se/~vk/cgi/asciichat/ /|__--__ . __--__ |\ '__ /|\ _{ _ `.' / `.,_ _________ | _________ _,.' (/ `. / ||``._.' ASCII ART CHAT! `---'|:||,/ .' /| /|:| \ .' /\ \ __ __ _ `/|'\' ` `,/ /`,\ \ \ / /__ _ _ ___ _ _ (_)__ __ _ /,'\ \ .'.' /| \ V / -_) '_/ _ \ ' \| / _/ _` | |\ `.`. ,' / / | \_/\___|_| \___/_||_|_\__\__,_| | \ \ `, - `- -- `-'- -ejm-------------------------------------VK-- -`-' -- -' - ###### From: "Ool" Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art Subject: Re: Character sets (was: So, You Want To Make Text Art?) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:33:03 +0100 Organization: T-Online Lines: 32 Message-ID: <852udo$1i$1@news02.btx.dtag.de> References: <8404ni$bve$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <386C9520.5C2E@earthling.net> <386e673e.0@206.103.97.91> <386EA280.25F9@earthling.net> <386F0346.9AB412B7@gtcom.net> <386F08E6.7BB1@earthling.net> <386f48ac.0@206.103.97.91> <386F7294.7C46@earthling.net> <84p7pi$gej$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38715D23.2966@earthling.net> <3871cf61.0@206.103.97.91> <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at> <84t8am$aqu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3874D57E.391@earthling.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news02.btx.dtag.de 947191032 50 320017688798-0001 000106 20:37:12 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.de X-Sender: 320017688798-0001@t-dialin.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.nacamar.de!newsfeed.tli.de!news-MUC.ecrc.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.btx.dtag.de!t-online.de!news.btx.dtag.de!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.ascii-art:7439 Maybe I should mention here that if you're using Windows there is a way to switch keyboard settings easily. I have a German keyboard, but my default settings are American. In the rare cases in which I write a German text I can switch the char- acter settings for a single application with a mouseclick. Just install both keyboard language settings settings and check "acti- vate language display (task bar)." *Click* qwertzuiopü+ *Click* qwertyuiop[] And the crowd goes wild! -- ___ __ __ "Muscles of All Limbs, Unite! / _ / _( ) You Have Nothing to Lose But Your Sinews." ( (_( (_))(__ \___\__(____) ©OOL mm ###### From: ppunk@damnthatspam.hetnet.nl (Peter Punk) Subject: Re: Character sets (was: So, You Want To Make Text Art?) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 01:52:36 +0100 Organization: Total Disorganisation Message-ID: References: <8404ni$bve$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <386C9520.5C2E@earthling.net> <386e673e.0@206.103.97.91> <386EA280.25F9@earthling.net> <386F0346.9AB412B7@gtcom.net> <386F08E6.7BB1@earthling.net> <386f48ac.0@206.103.97.91> <386F7294.7C46@earthling.net> <84p7pi$gej$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38715D23.2966@earthling.net> <3871cf61.0@206.103.97.91> <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at> <84t8am$aqu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3874D57E.391@earthling.net> <852udo$1i$1@news02.btx.dtag.de> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art NNTP-Posting-Host: hrv0175-1.dial.wxs.nl 195.121.186.175 Lines: 12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!diablo.theplanet.net!newspeer.ebone.net!psinet-eu-nl!news1.kpn.net!master.news.hetnet.nl!news2.hetnet.nl Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.ascii-art:7483 On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:33:03 +0100, "Ool" provoked the following text: >Just install both keyboard language settings settings and check "acti- >vate language display (task bar)." > >*Click* >qwertzuiopü+ >*Click* >qwertyuiop[] >And the crowd goes wild! Yai! -- Peter Punk \ / ---\\\\--- / \ Finish your mail packet! Children are offline in India. ###### From: Jan-Erik Finnberg Newsgroups: alt.ascii-art Subject: Re: Character sets (was: So, You Want To Make Text Art?) Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 19:32:56 +0200 Organization: SAUNALAHDEN SERVERIN asiakas Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <8404ni$bve$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <386C9520.5C2E@earthling.net> <386e673e.0@206.103.97.91> <386EA280.25F9@earthling.net> <386F0346.9AB412B7@gtcom.net> <386F08E6.7BB1@earthling.net> <386f48ac.0@206.103.97.91> <386F7294.7C46@earthling.net> <84p7pi$gej$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38715D23.2966@earthling.net> <3871cf61.0@206.103.97.91> <84sq32$bq$1@scesie13.sie.siemens.at> <84t8am$aqu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3874D57E.391@earthling.net> <852udo$1i$1@news02.btx.dtag.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: mmmcmlxvi.hdyn.saunalahti.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 trialware Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed1.funet.fi!nntp.inet.fi!inet.fi!newsfeeds.saunalahti.fi!news.sci.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.ascii-art:7511 On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:33:03 +0100, "Ool" wrote: >qwertzuiopü+ I assume this is what the top line of your keyboard looks like. And the default when using German Windows. >qwertyuiop[] So this looks inaccurate when using that keyboard. My top line looks like this: qwertyuiopå¨ and I can still get those [] -characters by pressing AltGr+8 and AltGr+9. So I can make ascii-art without changing my keyboard settings. But if I changed the settings, I would have to serch for those characters on my keyboard since the characters I get when pressing a key do not correspond to the characters on the keys. My point is that use wichever keyboard layout you are familiar with when typing or when making ascii-art, but do not assume others have the same keyboard layout. -- Jan-Erik Finnberg wheany@icenet.no.spam.please.fi ICQ:49316651 http://www.saunalahti.fi/~wheany/FFVII/ FF7 midis and not much more!! http://www.saunalahti.fi/~wheany/nethack/ Nethack 3.3.0 download "Life is like a metaphor"